S04.E05: Persona Non Grata

[CooperTV]

Quote

Elizabeth is determined to continue to hold a human trafficking conference in Kyrgyzstan despite the inappropriate actions by a U.S. ambassador. Also, Elizabeth and Henry worry about Alison when she keeps coming home from college.

Promos

[Netfoot]

That dress was awful!  

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

That dress was awful!  

That is exactly what I came on here to post. Horrendous.

I wonder if Dmitri and/or Talia will end up being the moles? Or did they not know the necessary information?

I'm sure Superhero Arm Candy will find the mole. Singlehandedly.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Netfoot said:

That dress was awful!  

Yes. Thank you. Modern day version of The Emperor's New Clothes, and, of course, in this era, every child gets a trophy for participating. WTH was that?

And speaking of WTH?, is Dmitri just acting shady to be a red herring? What was up with that mouse-sized blanket? I'm half  expecting there to be a microphone knitted into it, except I think the guy he casually handed it to tossed it aside.

And was Ross from Friends baby's mother's lover a.k.a. Gretchen from Breaking Bad a.k.a. a frickin' child slave trafficker from an episode of Law & Order, or, IRL, actress Jessica Hecht (can't recall her character's name in this episode) just a foolish lonely lovesick woman, or was she the Second Coming of the middle aged, female, strategically posted-overseas spy on this show? 'Cause I thought we already did that plot in an earlier season.

[Netfoot]

8 hours ago, secnarf said:

I'm sure Superhero Arm Candy will find the mole. Singlehandedly.

Didja see him all Gung-ho Gunslinger when the bomb went off?  He's such a hewo!  And only last season he had to bwavely drive a different bomb outta town and hobble away on two sticks!  Honestly, he spoils the show for me. Come to think of it, didn't he once get blown up by an atomic bomb, and have to valiantly cling to life right up until the end of the episode?

You don't want to stand next to Henry!  Especially on Guy Fawkes Night...

[kwnyc]

Oh yeah. Poor Noodle! Ugly, ugly dress. And I'm SO glad they broke off Stevie & Jareth's engagement offstage.

What Henry really IS a superhero at is parenting. He's damn good at it.  (And better than Bess, which is fine with me. He grew up in a two-parent, multi-sibling house, Beth lost her parents early.) It's a shame we have to see him be all international spy as well. (Though the scene with the glasses was beautifully played...once again, he's a great dad/husband, and that's what I'm interested in seeing.)

Moles, moles everywhere! Didn't they just have one last year in State? Then there was that CIA director (that was his title, right?) who shot himself when he was being detained. I just hope Conrad doesn't make Henry head of the CIA next. I noticed the camera kept focusing on the guy with the glasses. Is it him? Does he know who it is?

All in all, I thought this was a fine episode...and look at Matt being all smart and supportive with Jay. I think he misses Nadine, who was his work mommy, and needs someone to look up to.

[milner]

I am tired of all the “saints” on these shows. There is Saimt Henry here.  Saint Olivia on SVU  and Saint Francis on Blue Bloods. That is only three of the many. Enough already 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, kwnyc said:

look at Matt being all smart and supportive with Jay

To me it seemed like foreshadowing that Matt will soon have Jay's job.

[sinkwriter]

I find any scene involving Dmitri to be excruciating to watch because I have this anxious, impending feeling of dooooom that Henry's going to screw things up again and get him killed.

[sinkwriter]

I've watched a lot of Project Runway over the years and seen plenty of crazy designs, but that dress was just. not. good. Not even in an unusual, avant-garde "I meant it as symbolic" sort of way. 

[MaryHedwig]

1 hour ago, sinkwriter said:

I've watched a lot of Project Runway over the years and seen plenty of crazy designs, but that dress was just. not. good. Not even in an unusual, avant-garde "I meant it as symbolic" sort of way. 

We know that but do the characters know that? Stevie seemed to be sincerely complimenting her on it.  I felt like the boy in The Emperor Has No Clothes and thought, "Am I the only one who thinks this is a very bad dress?" By the way, the dress Alison wore at the fashion show was awesome. She should have thrown that one on Stevie at the last minute, if that was her own design.

[VinceW]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

To me it seemed like foreshadowing that Matt will soon have Jay's job.

Matt is a speechwriter and wordsmith who can quickly put diplomatic spin to paper. Jay is a SoS policy wonk. Both difficult jobs with very different skill sets and the right personality to match.  

[Dowel Jones]

8 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

but that dress was just. not. good.

I wonder how the producer phrased the request to the wardrobe department.  "I want you to create an ugly dress.  And I mean an ugly dress."  Or, conversely, some designer got the contract and really thinks that it was a cool design, and is currently bragging about it somewhere.

Okay, I see the need for a mole for draaaaaama (and an episode arc), but didn't the Kabul ambassador confirm that the emails gave the location of the safe house?  However, I did like the way that Henry interrupted him as soon as he saw Julia in the photo.  Forget the stupid vaccines, get to the point!  I halfway expected Henry to find out that Julia was banging that guy too.

Pardon my obtuseness, but when your high level Cabinet boss is arguing with a foreign President, is it the smartest thing to butt into the discussion with your own comments?  That could have gone so wrong. 

Is Senator Asshole privy to any of this information?  I wouldn't put it past the writers to throw him under the bus so they can get rid of him. 

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Is Senator Asshole privy to any of this information?  I wouldn't put it past the writers to throw him under the bus so they can get rid of him. 

If I was on the writing team, I would be unable to resist pitching Senator Asshole getting hit by a literal bus to provide a moment of literary humor when his fate/karma is revealed.

[roughing it]

<small voice> I liked the dress.  Not that I would wear it, but for a young woman in DC attending a cocktail party, I can see it.

[CheshireCat]

On ‎05‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 11:09 PM, secnarf said:

I wonder if Dmitri and/or Talia will end up being the moles? Or did they not know the necessary information?

I don't think they knew. Talia probably doesn't know anything and Dmitri probably only knows what he needs to know. I definitely hope the mole doesn't turn out to be a character we've never seen before. How about it's not a mole but electronics they were able to smuggle into the compound because Henry has no idea what he's doing? That would be nice. Him compromising national security because they put a completely untrained person in a supervising position at the CIA. I know, I'm mean but a) I'm so tired of this and b) I do think that this could be interesting.

I loved Bess' suggestion as a motivational speaker. He'd totally be suited for that. He could help people and he could use his theology knowledge which is what he is passionate about, in case he forgot. Can we start a petition? ;-)

 

On ‎06‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 10:07 AM, kwnyc said:

Moles, moles everywhere! Didn't they just have one last year in State? Then there was that CIA director (that was his title, right?) who shot himself when he was being detained.

Andrew Munsey. But he wasn't a mole, he was part of a team which had set up an Iranian coup.

 

On ‎06‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 10:07 AM, kwnyc said:

I just hope Conrad doesn't make Henry head of the CIA next.

Me too!

 

On ‎06‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 2:09 PM, shapeshifter said:

To me it seemed like foreshadowing that Matt will soon have Jay's job.

Considering the conversation between Bess and Jay at the end, I don't think so.

 

19 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

We know that but do the characters know that? Stevie seemed to be sincerely complimenting her on it.

She so did, didn't she? I don't think she would have given Bess the "thumbs up" if she hadn't meant it.

 

14 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I wonder how the producer phrased the request to the wardrobe department.  "I want you to create an ugly dress.  And I mean an ugly dress."  Or, conversely, some designer got the contract and really thinks that it was a cool design, and is currently bragging about it somewhere.

I think they probably requested a designer dress that looks like it could have been designed by an up-and-coming, very young, design student. That said, I agree that it was ugly. And it took me a moment to realize that Stevie was actually sincere. I'd really love to know what both actresses thought about the dress when they saw it and if there's some fun BTS about it.

 

14 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Okay, I see the need for a mole for draaaaaama (and an episode arc), but didn't the Kabul ambassador confirm that the emails gave the location of the safe house? 

Yes, but I don't think it gave away who the agent and her Russian counterpart were.

 

14 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Pardon my obtuseness, but when your high level Cabinet boss is arguing with a foreign President, is it the smartest thing to butt into the discussion with your own comments?  That could have gone so wrong. 

Yeah... Jay has a habit of doing that but I don't think pacing behind your boss' desk so it can be seen is the smartest thing to do either. I wonder if this will be an issue later. I would like it to be. I don't want Jay to lose his job, I just want to see him grow into the role. As Matt said, Chief of Staff is not policy advisor.

I really loved Jay's "passion" when he talked to Russell though. I liked that he wasn't intimidated and was just himself. I guess, Russell now knows who he is ;-)

 

14 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Is Senator Asshole privy to any of this information?  I wouldn't put it past the writers to throw him under the bus so they can get rid of him. 

As much as I want him to be the mole, from what I understand he'd be privy only to information he is read in. I don't remember if Henry mentioned that they wanted to set up a safe house at the beginning but if he did, he definitely didn't mention the specific location. It is, however, possible that the Senator is working with someone inside Henry's team. At the same time, I'm not sure if he's the type/supposed to be the type who'd betray his country. I'd rather see him go down for making this personal anyway. He was blocking Henry's fund merely because Henry's connected to Bess and I want that to be his downfall. That or some big, embarrassing scandal.

I really liked how Henry stood up to the Senator though. That's what I like him for. He did the right thing and he can do it. More of that, please!

That said, what is up with Henry saying "you're doing it too" to Bess this season? She's Secretary of State. Her job description basically is travelling abroad, including to unstable countries to negotiate more stability. He has a desk job in the CIA. When Bess had a desk job and was made/offered station chief in Baghdad, he threw a hissy fit. Granted, it was about her being away for so long and I do understand his motives, I wouldn't have been thrilled either. But my point is that he made a point of it being a desk job and now he gets all "you just were in a war zone" when she brings it up. Yes, that is what they agreed on. And contrary to him, Bess gave him and the family a chance to weigh in on the job. (I sometimes wonder if making Henry Mr SuperSpy is a concession the show had to make to the network so that they could bring in more "hard action". I know that Daly himself wanted to be more than a college professor/house husband and I can understand that. But I think they could have given him plenty of interesting stories without making him Mr SuperSpy and if he is to be believed, then he's also trying to make sure that they don't lose Henry's core/values).

I really liked the scene between Stevie and Alison. I thought it was a good way of mentioning the break-up, we didn't need to see that happening, and, at the same time, they gave them a really nice sister-scene. It also made me wonder if Stevie really knows what she wants yet. It didn't sound like she does. She seemed very broken up about it, so that's one thing she's passionate about and then there's her job, which she also seems to like and is passionate about but which is very demanding and I'm not sure she really knows which is more important to her yet. Job or relationship. I liked Jareth, so I wouldn't mind if they got back together. And I really don't want her paired with Dmitri, for so, so many reasons but I'm not holding my breath.

I agree that it was nice to see Bess continuing her work against human trafficking. It's something that I like in general, that they revisit some story line/continue them.

[VinceW]

On 11/5/2017 at 11:09 PM, secnarf said:

I wonder if Dmitri and/or Talia will end up being the moles? Or did they not know the necessary information?

I'm sure Superhero Arm Candy will find the mole. Singlehandedly.

The writers want viewers to think Dmitri is the mole, but it is more likely the other team member working for Henry. If Russia is working to flip that person, then Dmitri is at risk if the Russians find out he is now working with the CIA.  The show has fallen back to replay past seasons CIA scenarios in which too many players get involved and it becomes hard to follow.   

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, VinceW said:

The writers want viewers to think Dmitri is the mole, but it is more likely the other team member working for Henry. If Russia is working to flip that person, then Dmitri is at risk if the Russians find out he is now working with the CIA. 

Ooo, I hadn't thought of that. So it could end with Dmitri being an innocent suspect who discovers the real mole, and then Dmitri reveals his true identity to the mole in an effort to flush out the mole, which works, but just as Dmitri is about to reveal the real mole, Dmitri is killed. Dimitri is posthumously, secretly honored. Stevie weaps.
See? We could write plots at least as badly convoluted as the guys in Hollywood.

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, VinceW said:

The writers want viewers to think Dmitri is the mole, but it is more likely the other team member working for Henry. 

I wondered about that but wouldn't it be too obvious? The pregnant woman or nerdy-looking guy with the glasses and working for Henry no less? Wouldn't they now do an extreme background check including a lie detector test on anyone obviously involved and in the know? Well, probably not Senators and Secretaries and Dalton but anyone else, and it should (and I guess would in RL) include Henry.


ETA: I'm liking Bess' hair much better now!

Edited November 8, 2017 by CheshireCat

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On November 6, 2017 at 0:36 AM, shapeshifter said:

And speaking of WTH?, is Dmitri just acting shady to be a red herring? What was up with that mouse-sized blanket? I'm half  expecting there to be a microphone knitted into it, except I think the guy he casually handed it to tossed it aside.

The other agent put it on his bag, to give to Agent Molly later. It's for her baby.

On November 6, 2017 at 11:48 AM, milner said:

I am tired of all the “saints” on these shows. There is Saimt Henry here.  Saint Olivia on SVU  and Saint Francis on Blue Bloods. That is only three of the many. Enough already 

Saint Roni on Once Upon a Time.

[VinceW]

6 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I wondered about that but wouldn't it be too obvious? The pregnant woman or nerdy-looking guy with the glasses and working for Henry no less? Wouldn't they now do an extreme background check including a lie detector test on anyone obviously involved and in the know? Well, probably not Senators and Secretaries and Dalton but anyone else, and it should (and I guess would in RL) include Henry.

If the mole is not one of Henry's team members, the writers can always fall back on the "Greater Good" standard which means someone in Dalton's cabinet or a DOD department head.  Recall that CIA director Munsey in S1 was the bad guy working against the country without any real oversight.

Edited November 8, 2017 by VinceW

[kwnyc]

Quote

 Senator Asshole

That's Senator FLAMING Asshole to you! Of the Complete Asshole Party! ;-)

[J-Man]

When I saw the disaster that Ali had concocted, I couldn't help but think of this infamous TV dress.

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, J-Man said:

When I saw the disaster that Ali had concocted, I couldn't help but think of this infamous TV dress.

The movie 27 dresses has plenty more to choose from. ;-)