S07.E03: The Garden of Forking Paths

[RulerofallIsurvey]

12 minutes ago, CinAZ said:

I used to watch in real time or soon as I could. Now, I watch it when I am bored or maybe out of loyalty... we will see how long the loyalty will last.

I'm in the same boat.  I think several others on here are as well.  

12 minutes ago, kili said:

If Wish Hook is real, does Regina feel any regret about casually killing Wish Snow and Wish Charming with a flick of her wrist just because it was convenient and she didn't think there were real?

I think she answered that herself back in Neverland.  

[kpw801]

26 minutes ago, CinAZ said:

Well, finally watched the episode... I used to watch in real time or soon as I could. Now, I watch it when I am bored or maybe out of loyalty... we will see how long the loyalty will last.

Oh the acting....  Cinderella- you suck. I can not understand most of what you are saying. You do not make me care about anything you do or say. I know they are trying to make her the new Snow, but each episode I see, the difference between the acting, the storylines everything.... by episode 3 of the first season, I cared about Snow, about what she was going through, the people around her were interesting. She had chemistry with everyone around her. She made the fairytales believable.  But Cinderella, nope.  I hope they are seeing that this actress just isn’t cutting it. I can tolerate Lucy and even Victoria, but damn Cinderella/Jacinda, just go away. 

Tiana, on the other hand, I like. 

Hook is, well, Hook. Thank goodness. He is pretty much the only reason to watch at this point. Him and maybe Regina...It is sad when Regina is one of the best parts of the show.

Unless major changes happen, I think this is the last season for Once.  

I feel the same way! I am watching it out of loyalty and habit.  The only thing good about Friday night instead of Sunday is that (assuming it gets waay better) I don't have to wait until Sunday to see the show.  However, I find myself going back and re-watching the first season because I miss the charm and the original fairy tale themes.  

Dania Ramirez has a way of speaking that makes me cringe.  The way she says the word garden - its like she sort of chokes when she has to say the "den" part of the word Garden.  It seems she was just cast to be PC. Everything about her character seems cheap and thought up at the last minute.  That flimsy carriage with only 1 horse and no footmen bothered me.  She seems to say the phrase, "what the hell are you doing here?" ALL THE TIME.  I mean Jennifer Lopez is hispanic but she speaks English fluently.  I guess they wanted that accent to make sure the audience knew they were being diverse but my goodness, Desi Arnez had a cuban accent but was fluent enough so that we could understand what he was saying.  Sometimes Cinderella's dialogue is just garbled!!  Also, we need to see some her back story with Victoria/Tremaine... There was much more back story for all of the main characters in the first season and you got invested.  

I will probably watch the show until its conclusion but unless things change bigly, I don't think there will be a season 8.

On 10/21/2017 at 11:36 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I just watched the episode earlier tonight, but I haven't read through the comments, so - knowing this board, probably a lot of it is redundant. :)

• I know we've talked about the aging with Regina, Rumple, and Whook, but with tonight's flashback, I'm amazed that Henry and Failurella haven't aged in the 10+ years since they managed to get married and have Lucy.  I guess Lucy was also abducted by a dark fairy and taken to the rapid aging realm so her parents could stay young and attractive.  
• What the heck is with Whook flirting with Tiana?  On the one hand, I kind of dig them as a couple since it's not Killian.  On the other hand, he was all about breaking the curse to get his daughter back last episode, and now, in the flashback which was a few days later at most?, he's flirty with Tiana and it's 'daughter?  What daughter?'  I guess he's enjoying having that deaged body again.  But it's not making me like the character much at all.
• Really don't care about Rumple any more.
• Failurella is still annoying - both in the past and now.  Oh, and this time she kicked a guard who fell and hit the back of his head on a rock, just for doing his job.  I'm sure he's not dead either.  
• But the biggest WTF is why on earth is the Prince working with Lady Tremaine and letting her call the shots and giving her all the magic out of his vault.  I guess you can store magic now also - not just magical artifacts.  

This is a mess.  

I was hoping the well was deeper when Lucy jumped in.  

"FAILURELLA" LOL, I love it!!

Edited October 23, 2017 by kpw801

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, I highly doubt Regina has given two seconds of thought to the WishVerse Snow and Charming she killed to prove a point, or even WishVerse Henry who lost his whole family in one day. People only matter on this show when they're convenient to the main characters. 

A big problem with the acting right now is that the newbies arent very good at being believable as both fairy tale characters, AND modern day people. They really lucked out with the cast originally, with actors who could play the larger then life or whimsical fair tale characters, or the more down to real Storybrooke characters. Even later additions like Hook and Ursula and such did a good job at being archetypes from famous stories. These guys all just seem so modern no matter where they are. The fairy tale scenes just seem like they're a bunch of LARPers screwing around in the forest behind the Dairy Queen. 

I mean, thats one problems with the acting. A bigger problem is that it sucks. Looking at you Murderella...

[gik910]

Do you know what is painful? When I start the show on Hulu, the bump is still a image of Emma using her powers. It would be (marginally) easier for me to try and give this a fair chance as a new(ish) show if I was not visibly reminded of what is no longer here every. damn. time.

I have not had a chance to read the previous comments yet, so please forgive me if I am being redundant.

Cinderella and Tiana had more chemistry in that 5 second rescue in the beginning fairyback and roomie bonding session than Cinder and Henry have had in any interaction.

So, is Henry the Author still?  Even if he does not remember it right now. Research should be his jam! And Jacinda, writers traditionally love bars. You should not be surprised to see him there. 

I cannot tell if Henry actually saying "Honestly, from one storyteller to another it just kind of seems..." was TWTS thinking they are so clever!  The irony inherent in that statement does not go away because your write something being hidden underground. It is derivative - not a good use of a parallel. There is a difference.  And just handwaving the history of the Seattle Underground is just kind of shitty.  That place is rich for fairly tale development and they are just like - "oh, it just like the mines in S1, so cool!" Blerg.

And where the F is Alice? She is like the only semi-interesting "new" character they brought in- and she is completely MIA

There is no way Regina didn't protect Henry's heart - just absolutely now way.  This would be a great time for her to act like the Evil (if reformed) Queen who commands a shit ton of magic and school all these bitches. I am digging Lana's hair in the fairybacks.

So was the cemetery the curse reacting to Henry's softening?

I guess Dreads-punzle is kind of interesting?

[Rumsy4]

43 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

A big problem with the acting right now is that the newbies arent very good at being believable as both fairy tale characters, AND modern day people. They really lucked out with the cast originally, with actors who could play the larger then life or whimsical fair tale characters, or the more down to real Storybrooke characters. Even later additions like Hook and Ursula and such did a good job at being archetypes from famous stories. These guys all just seem so modern no matter where they are. The fairy tale scenes just seem like they're a bunch of LARPers screwing around in the forest behind the Dairy Queen. 

I agree. There is nothing in the writing or acting that signals the newbies as fairy tale characters. It's the twin fail that's pulling down the reboot/requel. This problem started in S4, but got worse and worse, culminating in the nadir that was S6. Now, the Show has plateaued. With the original cast, at least the actors could salvage many of the scenes (although I think Ginny Goodwin and Robert Carlyle gave up in S6; and no matter what presence she had, Jamie Murray's charm couldn't save the dreck that was the Black Fairy storyline). The actors who played Aladdin, Jasmine, and Monte Cristo were all boring and not memorable (Karen David did her best, but the writing for Jasmine was terrible). There was nothing about their characterization or portrayal that invoked the originals. There was no clever "twist" because the original core that linked their characters to their fairy tale/fictional counterparts was missing. OTOH, the actors for Jekyll and Hyde did a good job, even if the storyline was weak. I think that's becasue the storyline still managed to maintain some elements of the original work. Otherwise, it's like hiring a bunch of Elvis impersonators who don't even know who Elvis was.

The same way, in S7, there's nothing about Cinderella or Tiana that makes me think they're a twist on the original fairy tale charatcers. They've changed too much about Cinderella, starting with her ethnicity. It's commendable to cast a PoC as Cinderella, but the writing/acting must help bridge the disconnect most people are going to feel at first glance. Or at least make the character more hispanic with costumes and cultural elements borrowed from hispanic culture. Just the accent doesn't count. They've plopped her into a Western Fairy Tale as is, which makes no sense. And the way they've written her is worse than Merida, if that was possible. She's not just abrasive like Merida was, but also wants to murder sweet old men. The writers fell in love with redeeming villains that they've kinda made Cinderealla act like a villain from the get-go. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Rumsy4

[RulerofallIsurvey]

54 minutes ago, kpw801 said:

"FAILURELLA" LOL, I love it!!

I don't want to take credit where none is due: I borrowed it from someone else on this thread.  :)

16 minutes ago, gik910 said:

There is no way Regina didn't protect Henry's heart - just absolutely now way. 

She did.  On the Jolly Roger on the way back from Neverland.

[gik910]

34 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I don't want to take credit where none is due: I borrowed it from someone else on this thread.  :)

She did.  On the Jolly Roger on the way back from Neverland.

That's what I thought. So what's worse, there was no dramatic tension in that scene at all then. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

11 minutes ago, gik910 said:

That's what I thought. So what's worse, there was no dramatic tension in that scene at all then. 

Nope.  I guess either the writers didn't know about that or they forgot that the audience - what's left of the original audience - forgot about it.

[iMonrey]

This episode sat on my DVR until I had watched everything else I saved up. I just haven't gotten around to deleting it from series record. There's really no reason to keep watching except sheer boredom. Without Emma, Snow and Charming it's pointless. And the ratings are terrible - it dropped to a 0.5 in the 18-49 demo this week. Not good. If the show lasts the entire season it will be a miracle.

Quote

Jacinda is just not working as a character and the actress is just awful. I wish Tiana was the new central character. 

I don't even understand why they went with a Cinderella-based story. They already covered Cinderella in previous seasons. Maybe they figured, after Snow White, Cinderella is the most obvious choice to base a story around. But this cockamamie idea of "another realm Cinderella" just doesn't work, and the actress is terrible. (She was OK in Devious Maids as a comical character that didn't carry the whole show, but as a lead actress attempting any sort drama, Dania Ramirez just isn't up to it.)

Why didn't they simply focus on a character like Tiana or Repunzel or someone they didn't really cover in the first six seasons? 

Would Emma and Snow and Charming really just sit around for a year or however long these people have been cursed without trying to find them? I mean, Henry disappeared for one day and the entire town went out searching for them. Are we really supposed to believe Emma has just written Henry off simply because he's an adult and she's content to have no contact with him whatsoever? And isn't the slightest bit suspicious she hasn't heard from Regina or Rumple for years?

The whole setup for this reboot is just too half-baked.

[Rumsy4]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And isn't the slightest bit suspicious she hasn't heard from Regina or Rumple for years?

We don't know how long these people have been cursed and in Seattle. Maybe they were magically skypeing each other until the day Henry and co. abruptly disappeared. Another world-building fail.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Rumsy4

[CheshireCat]

On ‎20‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 10:02 PM, Shanna Marie said:

I wonder when Lady Tremaine learned that Henry had the Heart of the Truest Believer. Last episode, she wanted to kill him, no mention of trying to take his heart.

Well, she did say she read up on Cinderella's "friends", so it's possible that it happened after he escaped (Drizella probably told her that Regina used magic which probably got Tremaine curious). But if she read up on Henry, she probably knows about the Evil Queen. Could be the reason why she stocked up on the Dark Magic but from what I gather her powers are (or aren't) so far and with an attitude that magic isn't power, it sounds foolish for Tremaine to want to take on the Evil Queen/a personal protegée of Rumple's (and someone who cast the Dark Curse (because as freely as it may have been used, only Regina, Peter Pan and Merlin/the Dark One have cast the curse so far, plus Snow, but it seemed that all she did was crush Charming's heart, the rest seemed to have been Regina (however that may have worked ;-)) but my point is that only pretty powerful (dark) forces have cast it)).

 

 

On ‎20‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 10:03 PM, Writing Wrongs said:

Maybe the witch is Zelena's daughter, Robin.

 

Now, that could actually be interesting, but since it sounds rather complex, I doubt that that's going to be the case.

 

On ‎21‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 5:43 AM, Writing Wrongs said:

Seattle is too big a city and we still don't know who was affected by the curse. Just a neighborhood or a street? In Storybrooke we knew everyone was.

From what I understand, the neighborhood Hyperion Heights has all the cursed fairy tale characters. Lucy said so when she explained that Tremaine wants to develop Hyperion Heights and scatter everyone, so that everyone from the fairy tales, get separated.

What I find interesting is that Tiana and Cinderella share an apartment. If the curse is meant to separate everyone, why are they roommates from the get-go?

 

2 hours ago, gik910 said:

There is no way Regina didn't protect Henry's heart - just absolutely now way. 

I wondered about that when Cinderella wanted to take Henry's heart, if it's still protected or if the spell wore off when he grew up or changed realms or something. Would have been nice to find that out/would have been nice if Cinderella had actually tried to take the heart and not been able to because of the protection spell.

 

It seemed like sort of a filler episode/set-up episode. A few things got filled in and there was a little story development in Hyperion Heights with the glass slipper, but overall, it seems that things were set-up mostly.

One thing I noticed was that Cinderella/the actress looks like she's playing dress up in the ball-gown. Tiana looked much better in it and much more authentic. But why was Tiana wearing a ball gown in the first place in that scene? And riding a motorcycle in that dress looks dangerous enough but having two of those dresses on the motorcycle at the same time...

Cinderella really does seem to be the weakest link.

Regina's clothes look like they're meant to be a non-queen-version of her clothes as (Evil) Queen. The cut and color are similar to what she wore as (Evil) Queen and it did have the feathers/fur on top, it's just the fabric of the coat (or whatever you want to call it) that's different. While I would like to see her back in her clothes, from her comment that she "knows her way around a spell" it seems that she'd prefer to keep her past a secret.

I do like that Regina still has some of her role as mayor/queen even though she owns the bar. Personally, I think they managed that balance well.

Does anyone see a connection between the name Roni and Regina/the queen? Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but Hook is Rogers, and he has a ship called The Jolly Rogers, Rumple is named Weaver, and weave is another word for spin, and Rumple spins straw into gold but I don't see a connection with Regina/Roni, other than the "R". And maybe that is the connection? It just seems like a weak one.  

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

hey've changed too much about Cinderella, starting with her ethnicity. It's commendable to cast a PoC as Cinderella, but the writing/acting must help bridge the disconnect most people are going to feel at first glance. Or at least make the character more hispanic with costumes and cultural elements borrowed from hispanic culture. Just the accent doesn't count. They've plopped her into a Western Fairy Tale as is, which makes no sense. 

It reminds me a lot of when they made a big huge deal about finally writing in a gay couple, only for the aforementioned gay couple to only have one episode devoted to their relationship, being declared True Love after about 15 minutes of liking each other, and never being seen after one chaste kiss. So they get to do a billion interviews about how awesome and progressive they are and to get that sweet tumblr cred, but without having to actually take any risks, or really put any work into it. 

Here, they get to go on about how great they are for hiring a Hispanic actress to play Cinderella, without actually committing to it or doing anything interesting. Normally, I am totally fine with colorblind casting, especially in a world where race doesn't seem to really exist the way it does here, or just wanting to hire more POC. Thats great. But, wouldn't it have been interesting to have her come from a magical Latin America, and be from one of their Cinderella stories? There are totally Latin American Cinderella variations, why not do that if you want to go with this already set up "*there are millions of variations of these stories across cultures" or whatever they're using to justify this other Cinderella? Or, if you dont want to do that, why give her this super thick accent that no one else has (yeah, still on this) where she is supposedly from? It makes her stand out, when, if you just want to do colorblind casting or look for WOC like they have with Rapunzel or Maid Marion, you didn't have to. I refuse to believe this actress was the best of the millions of Hispanic actresses out there who I am sure would love to play Cinderella on TV! There were girls in my high school drama club (some of whom had thick Hispanic accents!) who could act circles around this women! Anyway, my point is, they want to look cool and progressive, but they dont want to take any real chances, or do anything actually interesting. 

*Yeah, Henry might have thrown that out, but what are the odds that we dont get a single story from the non standard Western canon?*

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Does anyone see a connection between the name Roni and Regina/the queen? 

Regina loved making lasagna which contains pasta which also includes MacaRoni.  

Seriously speaking, though, they probably chose it because it started with the letter R.  Maybe Roni's last name will be more "clever" like Weaver or Rogers.

[Camera One]

Now that Lady Tremaine's main motivation has been revealed, what does resurrecting Anastasia have to do with forcing fairy tale characters to leave Hyperion Heights and building new condos?  

If she knows that Roni is Regina, why hasn't she gotten rid of her by now?  

Why is she suddenly so intent on separating Jacinda and Lucy and keeping Jacinda from watching a ballet when she just allowed mother and daughter to live together previously, along with the leader of the Resistance?

It makes no sense until we know how long the Curse has been going on for.  Was Victoria just bulldozing buildings so she could find the coffin?  If so, why didn't she dig up the community garden ages ago?  It was already a vacant lot.  So it's practically impossible to come up with logical reasons for any of her actions.

I wasn't impressed with the ending because it was just more cryptic mumbo jumbo.  The Witch and Victoria seemed to be talking more for the benefit of the audience.  Why are they reminding each other of their respective challenges?  

[Curio]

I can already tell Friday nights aren't going to be good for my viewing schedule. Finally caught up with the last two episodes.

So...in a previous episode, Roni complained about Belfrey turning her place into a hipster juice bar, but this episode had Roni encouraging Jacinda to save the neighborhood's run-down hipster garden. How do the writers go about cherry picking which hipster things are worth saving and which ones are stupid? New condos and juice bars are stupid, but community gardens are okay? This didn't even look like a community garden, it just looked like a couple of dirt piles that no one cared about. If no one except Lucy cared about that lot of land, I don't really see why Belfrey was portrayed as such a villain for creating new housing. The land wasn't being used to its fullest potential, so she decided to create condos. What's the mwuahaha evil plan there?

Why didn't Jacinda and Lucy try to compromise and convince Belfrey that the new condo should include a community garden on the rooftop or something? That way everybody wins. Also, did Belfrey ever say that she was giving Jacinda the condo for free? Was she only willing to pay for one year? What if the monthly payment was ridiculously out of Jacinda's paygrade? Jacinda is not the sharpest wand in the land. First, she quit her job because of a petty argument, and then she's gullible about the condo and wants to take it without discussing any financial details. 

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

But, wouldn't it have been interesting to have her come from a magical Latin America, and be from one of their Cinderella stories? There are totally Latin American Cinderella variations, why not do that if you want to go with this already set up "*there are millions of variations of these stories across cultures" or whatever they're using to justify this other Cinderella?

 

Frankly, I think it comes down to A&E not enjoying research and worldbuilding. Henry was established as A&E's self-insert character seasons ago, so Henry whining in this episode about "boring research" is a direct reflection on how A&E feel about research. This is also why we have nonsensical plots about Rogers arresting a guy without any concrete evidence, paper-thin plots that have anything remotely dealing with legal issues, and many other poorly-researched topics.

22 hours ago, gik910 said:

And just handwaving the history of the Seattle Underground is just kind of shitty.  That place is rich for fairly tale development and they are just like - "oh, it just like the mines in S1, so cool!" Blerg.

 

There's a lot they could do with the Seattle Underground history, but again, that would require more research...

Quote

You mean like Regina told her bff Emma that she killed Graham?

Don't even get me started on this! Half a decade has gone by and I'm still not over how the writers botched that plot. I legitimately cannot think of another television show or movie where a main character's love interest was murdered in cold blood, but then that main character went on to befriend the murderer without the murderer ever confessing or the crime ever being discovered. In that sense, I guess the writers were groundbreaking.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Curio

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

If she knows that Roni is Regina, why hasn't she gotten rid of her by now?  

That is a good question. Same for Henry, if you think about it. Unlike Regina back in the days, she does not seem to want to see everyone suffer. So, get rid of Henry and Regina and problem solved. I'm sure it would be a lot easier to get Lucy to stop believing without Henry there.

I'm not sure, but I'm currently leaning towards liking it more that we knew right from the start that Regina remembered and was behind the curse. I spent three episodes wondering if Lady Tremaine had her memories. Seems like she does, but she does not really act like there's a purpose to having her memories. Also, how come that every fairy tale character ended up in the same neighborhood if the goal is to scatter them all? Why not let them live all over town? And how would Lady Tremaine know Seattle? Regina cursed everyone to a "land without magic", so it was completely random. This does not seem random. Details like that make me go back and forth on who cast the curse and make me wonder if maybe Regina/Henry/Rumple added something to the curse, like Zelena added the memory loss potion back in S3. Or maybe they cast the curse and Tremaine got her hands on a memory potion that allowed her to keep her memories. (Admitedly, I would prefer that option because she does not seem to be a villain who should be able to cast the Dark Curse, if it was indeed the Dark Curse which was cast (Do we know already if it's the Dark Curse or just a curse?)).

And if Lucy knows that Henry is her dad and Jacinda is Cinderella, how does she not know that Rumple is great-grandpa, Regina is grandma and Hook looks like grandpa? Does that mean that none of them were with Henry after Lucy was born? If not, how did they get caught up in the curse? And even if Lucy has never met them, there's a picture of Emma in the book. There must be pictures of everyone else. No one may have believed Henry in S1 but he always knew and told everyone who they were. I would like to see that repeated, actually, and I'd like to see their reactions. Rumple may be difficult, still, it could be interesting.

 

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Why is she suddenly so intent on separating Jacinda and Lucy and keeping Jacinda from watching a ballet when she just allowed mother and daughter to live together previously, along with the leader of the Resistance?

She said in this episode that Lucy needs to stop believing (for whatever reason) and I think on order to make someone stop believing you need to first stop their optimism and by separating Jacinda and Lucy, that could be a first step. I think the ballet was more to discourage Jacinda than disappoint Lucy. Lucy would probably understand but Jacinda would think she was a bad mother and maybe Tremaine wanted her to eventually leave without Lucy. In this episode, she targeted Lucy and wanted to crush her, like she did, by offering Jacinda the condo and all that.

 

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

It makes no sense until we know how long the Curse has been going on for.  Was Victoria just bulldozing buildings so she could find the coffin?  If so, why didn't she dig up the community garden ages ago?  It was already a vacant lot.  So it's practically impossible to come up with logical reasons for any of her actions.

Lucy claimed that it was to get to the shoe but was it really? Or did Lucy just think that? Also, real Seattle requires going through some red tape and even she would probably need some time. Additionally, it seems that only now the garden became relevant, now that Henry's in Lucy's life.

About the shoe, I'm not sure it will happen but I would love if they found pieces of the whole shoe throughout the episodes, so that the shoe will be assembled piece by piece.

 

2 hours ago, Curio said:

I can already tell Friday nights aren't going to be good for my viewing schedule. Finally caught up with the last two episodes.

So...in a previous episode, Roni complained about Belfrey turning her place into a hipster juice bar, but this episode had Roni encouraging Jacinda to save the neighborhood's run-down hipster garden. How do the writers go about cherry picking which hipster things are worth saving and which ones are stupid? New condos and juice bars are stupid, but community gardens are okay?

It's not about the juice bar and the condos per se. It was said that Tremaine wants to change the neighborhood and force the fairy tale characters out of the neighborhood. A juice bar would attract a different crowd, so it would (probably) scatter the fairy tale characters. New condos bring in new people, change the neighborhood, maybe make it more expensive, bring in new clientele, force others out. Unlike Regina, Tremaine wants to get people out, and separate them, not keep them in.

 

2 hours ago, Curio said:

This didn't even look like a community garden, it just looked like a couple of dirt piles that no one cared about.

If memory serves, Lucy said in the first episode that nothing grows there because of the curse. Something else that would be in Tremaine's interest: a dead garden doesn't attract people, a garden with flowers does and brings people together. After Jacinda threw the coin into the well, the first flower started to spring up and there were quite a few flowers in this episode, and they could plant additional flowers, so the first sign, apparently, that the curse is weakening.

Due to Tremaine's goal to keep everyone separate, I doubt that they'd have been able to convince her to add a community garden to the condo building. Also, the wishing well would have been destroyed had the condos been built. (I'm kind of torn about that. I like the continuity of having the well and that it connects to the beginning, but at the same time, it's from Snow White's story)

[VoicePlaya]

I haven't posted on here before, but this episode annoyed me so much. I wasn't thrilled about Henry and Cinderella being the main focus of the season before it even started. But I never imagined it would be this bad. In fairness, I don't mind Henry. I don't love him by any means, but I don't hate him either. Cinderella on the other hand...yikes. I can't stand her. Not as Cinderella and not as Jacinda. I've been trying to think of something I like about her and I can't think of anything. 

Okay, that's not entirely true. I do like the nickname Murderella, so there's that. Failurella is good too.

Not a fan of Lady Tremaine either. I don't buy her as a credible threat. I'm in no way a Regina fan, but at least I could buy her as an actual threat. Victoria/Lady Tremaine is just annoying. The idea that she's supposed to be worse than Regina is laughable.

Also laughable? Tiana as the leader of the ridiculous resistance. I didn't mind her in the first two episodes and even kind of liked her with Henry in the last episode, but the flashbacks just revealed her to be a more generic version of characters we've seen before. Meh. 

The Henry/Roni/Rogers alliance could not feel more contrived. I've been over the one handed jokes for a while now, so naturally Roni makes one. Ugh. 

My favorite character has been Hook since he was introduced with Emma as a close second. CS has always been my favorite couple on the show and were my main reason for watching. Emma should've played a more prominent role in her send off episode, but what we got was better than what I was expecting. 

Of course, knowing that WHook is the one in HH and not real Hook has killed a lot of the admittedly little interest I had in this season. I'm happy that they did actually let CS stay happy, but pretty much the one thing I was looking forward to this season was seeing how Hook and Henry would interact. WHook ruins that. I also can't get over how he's suddenly real now. Okay, show, whatever.

Kudos to Colin though. I actually felt for WHook wanting to find his daughter last week and was happy to finally have a storyline that somewhat interested me. WHook is such a buffoonish character, but Colin actually made me care about him. It was really only for that one scene, but it was something. 

So of course, they immediately ran away from that this episode. Not only was there no mention of the daughter, we got to see him attempting to flirt with Tiana. Seriously? I know it's WHook and not real Hook, but ugh. It'd be one thing if it happened farther down the road, but it's only been one episode since we last saw CS. One. 

This season has been so disjointed and I don't see it getting any better. WHook's search for his daughter could actually give the show some of its heart back, so I fully expect it not to get brought up again for a while.

I'll say this: watching this has given me a greater appreciation for the first season and for the original cast. I knew I'd miss Emma and Snowing, but I miss Storybrooke even more than I thought I would. I'm slightly interested in seeing Rumbelle next week. Not because I'm a fan of theirs because I'm not, but I'll take them over the new characters. Happily.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

14 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Does anyone see a connection between the name Roni and Regina/the queen? Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but Hook is Rogers, and he has a ship called The Jolly Rogers, Rumple is named Weaver, and weave is another word for spin, and Rumple spins straw into gold but I don't see a connection with Regina/Roni, other than the "R". And maybe that is the connection? It just seems like a weak one.  

There isn't one. A&E said they named her after Ronnie Spector.

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

If she knows that Roni is Regina, why hasn't she gotten rid of her by now? 

Yeah, there is this little thing called poison, and some are undetectable.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Rumsy4]

Quote

I wasn't impressed with the ending because it was just more cryptic mumbo jumbo.  The Witch and Victoria seemed to be talking more for the benefit of the audience.  Why are they reminding each other of their respective challenges?  

It was for the benefit of the audience, while still making zero sense. It's worse than when Ingrid whispered the final ingredient in Rumple's ear, even though there was nobody else around. It's so contrived. 

6 hours ago, VoicePlaya said:

I'm slightly interested in seeing Rumbelle next week. Not because I'm a fan of theirs because I'm not, but I'll take them over the new characters. Happily.

OMG. Same! I can't believe I'm looking forward to a Rumbelle episode!! I almost feel embarrassed. lol

[Shanna Marie]

17 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I wondered about that when Cinderella wanted to take Henry's heart, if it's still protected or if the spell wore off when he grew up or changed realms or something. Would have been nice to find that out/would have been nice if Cinderella had actually tried to take the heart and not been able to because of the protection spell.

Didn't the witch at the end say something about how Lucy's heart was protected "too," which implied that Henry's heart was also protected, and thus the new plan to destroy Lucy's belief. But that makes me wonder if this really is the real world Seattle or if this is some Author-created AU -- either Henry wrote it as a desperate way to escape the coming curse and save everyone or he was forced to do it. The reason I thought this was that in the previous Author AU, they needed light Savior blood (never mind that we've since learned that "Savior" is a distinct thing and doesn't just happen because you save someone) for magic ink, vs. dark Savior blood in the real world, and here we've got them needing the heart of the truest believer while in the other realm, but now they need to destroy a believer's belief in Hyperion Heights. That would explain the wonky way the world works that is nothing like the real world and might explain the time issue, if Henry wrote them into 2017 America because that was the last year he was in that world.

7 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

And if Lucy knows that Henry is her dad and Jacinda is Cinderella, how does she not know that Rumple is great-grandpa, Regina is grandma and Hook looks like grandpa?

I think that's one of the big missing pieces of info so far. I can't quite tell whether Lucy has memories or whether she's figured it out from the book, like Henry did in season one. But if that's the case, we don't know what made her decide that Henry's book was true. In season one, Henry was given a book that looked like some kind of magical book. It wasn't the sort of thing you'd find in a bookstore. It told fairy tales, but they didn't go like the familiar fairy tales he knew. It was full of illustrations of people who looked just like the people in the town. Plus, there was that thing of him aging while nothing around him changed. And he was an unhappy adopted kid, so even if all the rest had been purely his overactive imagination, he had a reason to go looking for his birth mother. There was an actual relationship there. With Lucy, she's reading a recently published novel that's supposed to be a crazy fairy tale mashup, so there's a reason the stories don't go the usual way. We've only seen the one illustration, of Emma, so we don't know if there's enough info for her to figure out who the people are, and the only people from the book currently in Hyperion Heights (that we know of) are Regina and Rumple, with only partial credit for Hook, since that isn't the character from the book but is identical to him. We don't know if this book is weird enough to be written by Henry Mills and have the main character also be Henry Mills, or if she figured out that he was really writing about his own experiences. There's been nothing to show us why she read this novel and decided that the author was her father, especially when her mother knows who her father was and knows this isn't the guy. Yeah, we know Lucy is right, but if she's wrong, then Henry is nothing to her and her mother. In season one, even if Henry had been wrong about the curse stuff, he still had a relationship with Emma. It would have looked bad for Henry if he's pulled a Neal, and if he hadn't known he had a daughter, but at least there would have been something there (and, of course, it wouldn't have been true, since they apparently were a family in the fairy tale world, which means that Henry as deadbeat dad would have been a good cursed identity). It doesn't even seem like Lucy is trying to map the book to people. Presumably, if there's a picture of Emma, Hook is a major character in the book, but she hasn't noticed that there's a one-handed cop named Rogers? There's actually a lot of potential for fun there, if she assumes that Rogers is the Hook who's Henry's stepdad, the one who's the character in the book, but he's an entirely different person.

I noticed that Lady Tremaine referred to Henry as "the boy," so I wonder if maybe Lana way overestimated the amount of time Henry's been gone, talking about eight years. If Henry is supposed to be about 21 here, then that makes a lot more sense in the timeline. If he's been gone just a few years, then we wouldn't expect his parents to have aged all that much, and then if you add in the time for him and Ella to get together, plus pregnancy, plus the 10 or so years of Lucy's age, then that would put him in the present at about the same age the actor is. It just would have helped if they'd given us a timestamp or done something to differentiate his appearance in the flashbacks from his appearance in the present -- like Emma's glasses and ponytail or Killian's bangs and ponytail. That still doesn't put us in 2017 for the present, which means either time travel or, as I suggested above, this is a manufactured world based on the modern America in the year Henry would have last known. I'm not sure where he'd have got Seattle, though, unless they maybe took a family vacation there or he'd thought about going there in search of adventure, before he got a magic bean and decided to try to get into a storybook.

[Mitch]

Wow, this show is just really, really bad!  First I forgot about the show completely on Friday. Then I watched it On Demand in its old time slot on Sunday..which usually makes the show better, as I just spent the afternoon in the pub. Well, let me tell you even copious amounts of Haufrau could not make me enjoy this show, even in a Hate Watch way..I was just bored.  The last few seasons I could watch and make fun of it and laugh and sometimes be entertained..but now.. time to put a stake in it.

Haven't we seen this all before, when dimbulb Henry wanted his playground or whatever and the tunnels and Snow's coffin? This wasn't an interesting or clever call back, its just like they took the old scripts and watered them down more.

I thought with the intro of a younger mult ethnic urban vibe the show would grow up a bit and be a little more edgy and interesting. Its not...surprise...They are just making call outs for things an old fart would think was hipstery..like juice bars and "community gardens."  The present day scenes look silly and forced and the fairy tale scenes look ackward and the new actors look uncomfortable. Why is a resistance leader wearing a ball gown and a tiara...(sorry, no one can look tough with a cheap looking tiara wobbling on your head.)  Cinderella is impossible to understand what she is saying and that goofy girl says every line like she is auditioning for the school play.

Why doesnt the super powerful Regina just go and rip people's hearts and command them to "be nice."  And would Regina seriously give up her honking ass house and cushy life in Maine to sleep in a tent and crap in the woods??? It can't be said enough, how is that bike getting gas and yes, dorks, we know you think its cool to see princesses in gowns driving a motorcycle but they apparent have never driven one to see how that is just a recipe for disaster.

The witch looks interesting but as usual with this show it will be boring let down.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Victoria/Lady Tremaine is just annoying. The idea that she's supposed to be worse than Regina is laughable.

That's one of the many fundamental flaws in this premise: Wicked Stepmother < Evil Queen. If they're going to give her magic powers to elevate her to the same status and menace as the Evil Queen, they might as well just invent an entirely new character. And that's essentially what they're trying to do here with both the Wicket Stepmother and Cinderella. 

Problem is, they've haven't really invented a "new" version of either character. Instead, they're trying to insert these characters into the roles that served the original story back in Season 1 and just rehash it. Stepmother = Evil Queen; Cinderella = Snow White; Henry = Emma, Lucy = Henry, etc. etc. It's just a lazy retooling of the show without any originality. And these characters don't really "work" in those roles, because they were organically structured around different characters. 

If they wanted to do something different and imaginative with Cinderella they needed to ditch the curse premise and Regina and Hook and Rumple and done something new.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

If they wanted to do something different and imaginative with Cinderella they needed to ditch the curse premise and Regina and Hook and Rumple and done something new.

I think they could have done something new even with this premise, if they'd bothered to make it, you know, new. Or at least new-ish.

As I mentioned in the All Seasons thread, it's odd that fairy tale expert Henry, who'd read all the books in the Sorcerer's mansion, was somehow unaware that he might be in the middle of a Cinderella story when Lady Tremaine was so well known that there was a resistance movement against her. They could have done all kinds of interesting things with fairy tale-savvy Henry finding himself in the stories as they play out and using his knowledge of how the stories tend to go to alter events. The present would be helped significantly with a bit more definition. Victoria's goal up front would have helped. We didn't need to know why up front, but someone having some goal is kind of important in telling a story. That's the very center of a plot: the main character wants something for a reason and runs into obstacles getting it. I'm not sure who the protagonist is meant to be here. Henry is sort of the central character, but he doesn't actually want anything in the present-day stories. He kind of wants to bring down Victoria, but only because of what happened in the second episode. Lucy I guess wants the curse broken, but all she really does is yell the same things at Henry over and over again. Roni wants to bring down Victoria because she doesn't like to be bossed around, which is a fairly weak motivation. The only good guy with a clear, strong goal and motivation is Rogers, who wants to find a missing girl from a case that's haunted him and that nearly got him killed, and he needs to find out why Victoria seems to be pulling strings to block that case being solved. But that's a subplot.

In season one, Henry really served as the protagonist because he wanted Emma to believe so the curse would break, and he was in direct opposition to Regina, who wanted Emma to go away so the curse wouldn't break, and at the same time, his real underlying goal was for Emma to find her family, which would mean he'd have a family. But at the same time, Emma developed the goal of making sure Henry was okay, and fending off Regina's attempts to keep her away. She had some stakes there because she had reasons to care about her son. In season seven, Henry really doesn't have any skin in the game. He's fond of Lucy, but he doesn't see her as his daughter. He's somewhat attracted to Jacinda, but there's nothing keeping him apart from her. He's annoyed at Victoria's power and abuse, but doesn't have any stakes there. If he decided that Lucy and Jacinda were annoying and went back to his regular life, he wouldn't really lose anything. We'd know he'd lost his wife and daughter, but he wouldn't know. If Emma had given up and left Storybrooke, she'd have lost her son.

Things would be dramatically improved if there was a reason Lucy knew about the curse, if she had something specific she knew had to be done for it to break, and if Victoria was taking direct action to stop her from letting that happen. Or if Henry had a specific goal and something to lose if he failed.

[iMonrey]

Yeah - why isn't Lucy affected by this curse? The reason Henry wasn't affect by the original curse is because he was born about 17 years after it was cast. But if Lucy was born after this curse was cast, it would mean Henry and Jacinda should know each other. They only forgot their pre-curse lives, not their post-curse lives. If Lucy was born before the curse was cast, wouldn't she be affected by it too? Let's say Cinderella got pregnant just before this curse was cast. That might explain why she and Henry don't know each other and she has a false memory of who Lucy's father is. But wouldn't it also mean Lucy would be affected by the curse? Does pregnancy shield the fetus from the curse?

[Shanna Marie]

14 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If Lucy was born before the curse was cast, wouldn't she be affected by it too?

I think she is affected. She believes, but I don't think she remembers. That's another weakness compared to the way they did it in season one, where we knew why Henry believed. Lucy has read a novel and believes that the events in it really happened to the author and that the author is her father. I don't get any impression that she actually has memories of the fairy tale world or of living in a family with Henry. Or she might. Who knows? We did see Henry sending her away with the storybook at the end of season 6 when a curse was coming, so maybe she got transported but didn't have her memories altered, or maybe the curse's hold on her is weaker, or something. The problem is, they haven't given us enough information to go on if we aren't sure whether Lucy remembers or whether she read the book and it clicked, and we don't know why reading the book made her believe, since the book is about Henry's past, not what was going on to bring on this curse. She doesn't even seem to be drawing conclusions or parallels. Even if she doesn't remember, wouldn't Hook have been a major character in the book if it was about the first six seasons/Henry's life? And now there's a one-handed police officer named Rogers, as in Jolly Roger, but she hasn't used that as a point of evidence to Henry, the way Henry tried to tell Emma who all the fairy tale people were.

[tennisgurl]

I feel bad saying this (kind of) as I have been through so much with this show, and I know that, despite my complaints I will be here until the bitter end, but the biggest problem I have this season is the simple fact that these episodes haven't convinced me that it has any reason to exist. Really, why are we even here? All the major plot lines were wrapped up at the end of last season, the characters were happy, their character arcs were as done, and now that almost the entire cast is gone, whats even the point? They clearly dont have any new ideas (as this whole season is a basically season 1: the crappy version) the new characters are just boring retreads of the original new characters, and the whole show seems to be running on fumes. There are certainly ideas that I have that could be interesting (Emma being proactive again, Regina having to really face her former victims, exploring the nature of a fictional multiverse) but these arent things the writers are interested in, and these arent things that I really needed or anything. The show is so different now, and yet also repetitive of the better early seasons, I just have no idea what the point is. 

[Souris]

22 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I feel bad saying this (kind of) as I have been through so much with this show, and I know that, despite my complaints I will be here until the bitter end, but the biggest problem I have this season is the simple fact that these episodes haven't convinced me that it has any reason to exist. Really, why are we even here? ... The show is so different now, and yet also repetitive of the better early seasons, I just have no idea what the point is. 

One reason and one reason only: Money. ABC thought they could make some off S7.

That is it.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Souris

[Rumsy4]

I'm starting to think even A&E didn't want this reboot, but had their arms twisted by abc.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Rumsy4

[VoicePlaya]

10 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

OMG. Same! I can't believe I'm looking forward to a Rumbelle episode!! I almost feel embarrassed. lol

I know! It feels so wrong.  

[Shanna Marie]

It just occurred to me when I was thinking about why Lucy doesn't seem to have figured out which people are characters from the book -- why doesn't Henry recognize them? He obviously has some kind of mental image of them, since he drew the illustration of Emma, and it looks just like Emma. I know I'd be a bit startled if I met someone who looked exactly like my mental image of one of my characters. But he didn't react at all to Rogers or Weaver, who look just like Hook (plus having a missing hand) and Rumple. Supposedly, Cinderella shows up in the last chapter, but his reaction to Jacinda was more "ooh, pretty girl" than "wow, you look exactly like the way I pictured one of my characters."

ETA: Not to mention Roni/Regina -- another major character you'd think he'd recognize. And if Emma is the mother he wishes he had, what does that mean about what he thinks about the character of Regina. As prominent as she surely was in his book, wouldn't he do at least a shocked double take when meeting the perfect image of his Evil Queen?

Edited October 25, 2017 by Shanna Marie

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

In season seven, Henry really doesn't have any skin in the game. He's fond of Lucy, but he doesn't see her as his daughter. He's somewhat attracted to Jacinda, but there's nothing keeping him apart from her. He's annoyed at Victoria's power and abuse, but doesn't have any stakes there. If he decided that Lucy and Jacinda were annoying and went back to his regular life, he wouldn't really lose anything.

That's my sense during this episode.  There was no real reason for Henry to stay involved.  He makes so much money driving ride-share that he can spend the day doing nothing?  Last episode, fine, he was trying to make up for that nonsensical decision to sell them out to Victoria in Episode 1.  And Henry's role in Operation Victoria is pretty much pointless.  He would write about the community garden be saved?  Oooh, what a coup.  There was nothing to write about for the money exchange.  You'd think Henry would be doing some research into the history of Victoria's business dealings.  

[jay741982]

On 10/20/2017 at 10:11 PM, Terrafamilia said:

The logistics police need to investigate. How did the palace guard and Tiana turn up so soon behind C-Rella on the faster than a horse motorcycle? And I suppose we will still never find out what happened off in Wonderland between Will Scarlet and the other Anastasia that caused Will to show back up in Storybrooke. Yes, I'm still bitter.

Me too I LOVED Will and Ana. I'm already expecting to not like NuAna like I did Ana from that show

[CheshireCat]

On ‎24‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 10:48 AM, Mitch said:

Why doesnt the super powerful Regina just go and rip people's hearts and command them to "be nice."

Because ripping out hearts is Dark Magic and while I think (and hope) that she would still use it under the right circumstances, she probably wouldn't use it as freely anymore as she once used to. 

But speaking of Dark Magic and hearts, if this is the Dark Curse and Tremaine cast it, whose heart would she have used? One daughter is already dead, the other is with her, alive and well. So, who would she love more than her daughters?

 

On ‎24‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 10:48 AM, Mitch said:

  And would Regina seriously give up her honking ass house and cushy life in Maine to sleep in a tent and crap in the woods???

Regina was willing to run away with a stable boy. She never wanted to become queen, so I'd say under the right circumstances, she would sleep in a tent in the woods, at least for a while.

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

She never wanted to become queen, so I'd say under the right circumstances, she would sleep in a tent in the woods, at least for a while.

That was so long ago, and to my mind, she had no real clue what actually eloping with Daniel would entail. She has never been used to hardship, and consistently mocks people who are in poorer circumstances. I find it hard to believe that she was okay with living rough for years in alt EF.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Rumsy4

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

That was so long ago, and to my mind, she had no real clue what actually eloping with Daniel would entail. She has never been used to hardship, and consistently mocks people who are in poorer circumstances. I find it hard to believe that she was okay with living rough for years in alt EF.

Is alt EF the current EF or the one from the wish realm?

Either way, who says that she/they are living rough? She knows magic after all, so she could make it more comfortable. Then again, they all lived without our modern amenities back in EF in S3 and didn't seem to mind. Castle or not, that can't have been fun.

[Rumsy4]

I was talking about Cinder's realm, of course.

27 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

She knows magic after all, so she could make it more comfortable.

Like one of those HP tents? lol Maybe

28 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Then again, they all lived without our modern amenities back in EF in S3 and didn't seem to mind.

Yeah. But they were living in a castle. Not camped out in the woods like the Resistance seem to be doing in the alt EF.

[CheshireCat]

35 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

 

Yeah. But they were living in a castle. Not camped out in the woods like the Resistance seem to be doing in the alt EF.

There didn't appear to be electricity, indoor plumbing or hot water though either (Didn't Snow even make a comment about that?). And there didn't seem to be glass in front of the windows either, so apart from the warm bed and a stone structure, it doesn't seem that much different from camping in the woods. And the bed can be changed with magic ;-)

A tent is definitely an upgrade from sleeping on the floor like they did in Neverland.

[legaleagle53]

On 10/22/2017 at 4:35 PM, Camera One said:

Lady Tremaine is pretty stupid, thinking Cinderella would rip out Henry's heart.  She could easily have done it herself, if she cared about resurrecting Anastasia *that* much.  Henry isn't the brightest bulb in the box and he could be easily tricked into coming to the Manor to save Cinders.  Tremaine could even have left a fake note from Cinders and Henry would have followed.  She could have taken his heart, resurrected Anastasia, show over.

Nope.  Regina put a protection spell on Henry's heart years ago after Peter Pan tried to steal it, remember?  The only person who can remove Henry's heart is Henry himself.  Too bad the writers forgot about that little detail.

[Camera One]

Yes, someone above already mentioned the protection spell on Henry's heart.  Though Lady Tremaine wouldn't have known that, so her plan to use Cinderella to do it was still stupid.

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

Yes, someone above already mentioned the protection spell on Henry's heart.  Though Lady Tremaine wouldn't have known that, so her plan to use Cinderella to do it was still stupid.

She should have known.  She herself said that she had read up on Henry and knew who he was and where he came from.  That means that she knew about his life history and would therefore have known about the protection spell (and apparently, Lucy's heart is also under a protection spell cast either by Regina or one of the fairies as a precaution before the curse hit).

Edited October 29, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Rumsy4]

14 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

There didn't appear to be electricity, indoor plumbing or hot water though either (Didn't Snow even make a comment about that?). And there didn't seem to be glass in front of the windows either, so apart from the warm bed and a stone structure, it doesn't seem that much different from camping in the woods. And the bed can be changed with magic ;-)

Except you have larger rooms and proper beds in a castle, not to mention cooks and maid to do the cleaning and heating of water for baths, etc.. However, Regina seems like the kind of person who wouldn't pull her weight in a group. So, she's probably letting the resistance members do all the chores, or would snap her fingers to magic up a meal (if her magic is working properly, which is still unclear). Not matter how one spins it, camping in the woods and living in little shacks is a huge downgrade for Regina, and not something she would find comfortable doing for 10 years. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Rumsy4

[RulerofallIsurvey]

20 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

She should have known.  She herself said that she had read up on Henry and knew who he was and where he came from.  That means that she knew about his life history and would therefore have known about the protection spell (and apparently, Lucy's heart is also under a protection spell cast either by Regina or one of the fairies as a precaution before the curse hit).

How on earth did Lady Tremaine already "read up" on Henry back in the EF2?   When he left Regina after H.S, he said he wasn't in any of the books in the sorcerer's mansion.  Had he already written his book by then and had an inter-dimensional publishing agent?  But then, his 'epic' romance with Murderella wouldn't be in it and neither would Lucy to know who her parents were. 

[jhlipton]

On 10/22/2017 at 0:54 PM, Camera One said:

HENRY: You have to make sure it stays safe.  You have it, don't you?

LUCY: Of course.  It never leaves my side.
HENRY: Oh, good.  It may be the realm's only hope of defeating the darkness.
... You need to share these stories.

Then the book is burnt to... dare I say cinders, and there is no repercussions at all.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Then the book is burnt to... dare I say cinders, and there is no repercussions at all.

I guess that means that either they won't defeat the darkness now.  Or - no worries, because there's a copy in the Sorcerer's mansion. 

[jhlipton]

23 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I guess that means that either they won't defeat the darkness now.  Or - no worries, because there's a copy in the Sorcerer's mansion. 

Too bad it's so hard to travel between realms!  Oh, wait...

[Camera One]

I just rewatched the promo for this episode in anticipation for the discussion, and I still thought the same thing.  It's just so derivative.  Cinderella (Snow) asks Lady Tremaine (Evil Queen) to kill her because Lady Tremaine (Evil Queen) blames her for the death of a loved one (under mysterious circumstances that we don't find out yet).  Lady Tremaine (Evil Queen) threatens to hurt everybody if Cinderella (Snow) doesn't submit to her requests.  Lucy (Henry) endangers herself underground, followed by her/his reluctant parental figure Adult Henry (Emma) who saves her/him.  There is a glass coffin (glass slipper) underground that Lady Tremaine (Regina) doesn't want the heroes to see.  These Writers just have so little creativity.  There is a difference between call-backs and outright self-plagiarism.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Camera One

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, maybe dont make us think so much about how much Henry's mom is like the woman he currently had the hots for, show. Your just showing off even more how weird this relationship is. 

Oh my God, this season is so painfully redundant. Just having Lucy say "This is just like what you did..."doesent make me think of this as a call back, it makes me roll my eyes at how lacking in creativity this show has become, even by its own lazy standards. Its weird, the backstory that Henry has with his dead wife and daughter is really sad and tragic, but I just never feel that from him. If this was season one and Henry was yelling at someone with fake memories of having a dead family about how they arent really dead, that would be really upsetting for them and it would be really emotional. Here, no one seems to really care. Lucy whines at people, everyone else just kind of stares...

Oh the magic of...real estate development! Feel the excitement of the bureaucratic process! Marvel at the intensity of gathering signatures to save a plot of dirt with a bunch of people we dont know! The biggest shock is that apparently someone went to Ronnie's bar and drank! Also, what the fuck was that "one handed" crack about Rogers? It sounded like a Regina line snunk into Ronnie, and yeah she is supposed to be "snarky" but making fun of someones disability is just dickish. 

Murderella is sure living up to her nickname! This is really not selling me on our new leading lady. First episode, she punches and robs a man who was trying to help her, and almost assassinates someone. Second episode, she decides to murder a nice old man so she doesent have to kill the young guy she has a crush on, and only doesent because she is stopped by Regina. So heroic! 

So we are introduced to the poorly explained resistance which is resisting Victoria and the royal family because...lots of other shows have those. 

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, maybe dont make us think so much about how much Henry's mom is like the woman he currently had the hots for, show. Your just showing off even more how weird this relationship is. 

I'm really not shocked at all Henry is dating someone that reminds him of his mom. Its creepy, but his relationship with Regina has been that way since 4A. This is the same person who made a "break-up basket". He's got a bad case of Oedipus complex. 

Ivy was like Regina in many ways too, but she was so much better than Jacinda. 

[Camera One]

5 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm really not shocked at all Henry is dating someone that reminds him of his mom. Its creepy

Based on the similarity of their actors' ages, Regina and Henry could have dated.   I'm not sure what it was, but they had a weird sort of romantic chemistry.  

I suppose David and Emma were also similar in age, but David somehow gave off a fatherly type of vibe which wasn't creepy.

[Shanna Marie]

The title of this episode is so much more amusing when you think of the word "forking" the way it's used on The Good Place.

This may be one of the worst episodes of the whole series. It's not as offensively bad as a lot of the stuff from season 6 or 4B (but that's mostly because Murderella is too new a character to actually suffer from character assassination, or for us to care that her character is being assassinated). It's just a big pile of "meh," scenes cobbled together from past episodes, with the writers congratulating themselves on their brilliance in doing all those meaningful callbacks.

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh the magic of...real estate development! Feel the excitement of the bureaucratic process! Marvel at the intensity of gathering signatures to save a plot of dirt with a bunch of people we dont know!

The thing baffling me as I rewatched was how they thought they were going to save the garden. If Victoria is building a condo tower on that lot, then that presumes she owns the lot or at least has some kind of long-term lease. There might be zoning issues about what can be built on it, but if she owns the lot, then she can generally do what she wants with it. Who was this petition supposed to be aimed at? There might have been some benefit if it was at the stage where the owner of the lot was about to sell, to convince the owner not to sell, or there could have been a campaign to buy the land to create a community garden. But if Victoria already owns the land, then is she going to care at all about a petition? Would she have bought the land without already being sure it was zoned for development? I don't think these people know how real estate works. Plus, handing someone an envelope of money is not a crime. It would take a lot more than that to arrest that guy, so Weaver was the one in the right there. They'd need to prove that illegal favors were done because of that money.

Another "callback" was Victoria setting up the situation to make Jacinda look bad to Lucy, the way Regina set up Emma so that Henry would overhear her saying she didn't believe. This feels a bit less egregious because Victoria isn't claiming to be Lucy's loving mother, and she's not gaslighting Lucy. She dangled bait in front of Jacinda, and Jacinda took it.

In the scene when Regina and Murderella are talking when Murderella was about to run off, I found myself wondering if one of the perks that came with getting lead billing for Lana was her own special makeup artist. She was clearly heavily made-up, but she had a radiant, dewy glow. It looked like the airbrush makeup that hides lines by blurring them. Meanwhile, Murderella looked like she had more conventional pancake/powder makeup, with a matte finish so that her skin looked dull and the makeup caked into any lines she had. Either they're getting different makeup treatment or Lana is getting the Cybill Shepherd in Moonlighting treatment of the soft-focus filter on all close-ups of her face. If you showed someone that scene out of context and asked them to point out which was the future mother-in-law and which was the future daughter-in-law, I'm not sure they'd get it right.