S19.E03: Contrapasso

[wknt3]

On 10/12/2017 at 0:36 PM, dttruman said:

One of their little ways of making SVU detectives look smart, by making other cops look incompetent. To me it throws out the realism.

I wish I was sure that there was that sort of reasoning involved and it wasn't simple incompetence and they wanted the main cast to be the one to discover the victim and couldn't figure out a better way to do it. It wouldn't have been hard to do it well either. Basically keep everything the same up until right after they peek in the ice bucket, have the unis say they believe there probably is a live victim out there as they have checked the bathroom and the closet and no body. Suddenly they hear a moan. Fin gets a line about checking under the bed, maybe the give the beat cops a line about ruining the forensics and getting snarked at by cranky veteran detectives, they call for a bus and roll credits. And everyone's disbelief stays suspended.
 

On 10/12/2017 at 1:32 PM, JyDanzig said:

But anyway, if this is the point they wanted to get to, a better route is showing us the woman's trial for the assault!  It turns that what-is-justice argument inside out, in a way that a jury might actually go for.  "This man raped her, and she has no chance of getting justice for it.  She should not be punished for this assault, because she had no other recourse to punish him for the way he victimized her."

I was thinking the same thing! The mothership almost certainly would have gone this way and so would the first 7 or so seasons of SVU. I'm a little surprised and disappointed that the new showrunner didn't have them go that way given his background and the way they've been going back to basics with the legal aspects of the show so far.

 

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As much of a drag as this is to contemplate, I assume it will become a key element in the custody case.  "Detective Benson is SO unfit that she was recently investigated for ABUSE, and it was discovered that she allowed Noah to walk into oncoming traffic!"

Probably, but if you are going to do a soapy plot line like this it seems like they should at least go for it and keep it hanging over Liv's head for a few more episodes. Otherwise just bring in Brooke Shields in the opener and they can use the many many Noah in jeopardy plots from the past to show she is an unfit parent.

[vast wasteland]

Just wanted to thank you all.  Didn't realize so many people still watched this show.

So interesting to read your intelligent, thoughtful posts.

I'll look forward to this season much more knowing I'll be able check out this forum for others' view of the story, acting, plot lines, etc.

Actually rooting for Brooke to be a good grandmother, because I always notice that Noah seems (to me) to have a lonely existence.  It would be best for both he and Liv, IMO, to have at least one other person in his life who loves and spends time with him.  

[illdoc]

1 hour ago, vast wasteland said:

to have at least one other person in his life who loves and spends time with him. 

Besides Lucy, of course.

[spunky]

Writers please stop the Benoah madness!!! It was a good episode. I love it when Barba gets to be on fire in the courtroom. Now since the writers like divulging personal information about certain characters, can we please have a Carisi story.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, spunky said:

Writers please stop the Benoah madness!!! It was a good episode. I love it when Barba gets to be on fire in the courtroom. Now since the writers like divulging personal information about certain characters, can we please have a Carisi story.

Carisi has a story in 2 weeks where he has a conflict after talking to a reporter. I'm sick of the Benson personal crap as well and I hate her goddamn kid and the Hallmark-esque mommy Benson scenes. If they want to give personal attention to characters I would prefer to give a little bit to each, but I don't want the characters lives becoming a soap opera. 

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:50 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Has Dick Wolf not watched enough TV shows over the years - in their twilight years - where kids are brought on to save the stale shows, only to see them still wither and die?! He was before my time, but I've heard of the annoyance that was "Cousin Oliver" on The Brady Bunch. Noah is the new Oliver. And this is going to be an arc. Greeeeeeeeat! Not.

Although, like someone else pointed out, I can't believe that Brooke Shields is now old enough to play a grandmother! (It makes me feel old.)

Yeah, I can think of Family Ties and Growing Pains, too.  And back to modern times, Blackish just added a baby, and Modern Family added one a few years back.

Brooke Shields is 52.  Somewhat young, but wasn't Noah's biological mom young, too?  And parents are not completely to blame for their adult children's behavior, but wasn't Noah's mom a junky?  How do we know that Brooke would be any better with Noah?  And why is she finally interested in the child years later?  I was adopted, and I can't imagine the trauma if some bio grandmother had come along to take me away.  No thanks.

[Snookums]

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I'm glad the jurors didn't buy into the one bad/illegal act cancels out another nonsense

Although since that was precisely what his own lawyer presented as his defense he's got a really solid appeal based on incompetent counsel.

Seriously this thing was SO off the rails it was practically a Japanese bullet train. There's no way any DA would agree to prosecute the guy for solid legal reasons. It was over twenty years ago with no witnesses and the woman who made the accusation literally cut the guy's balls off! I cannot fathom what DA would go anywhere near it, PLUS, the actual crime he was on trial for took place in another town/county! It isn't even Manhattan's jurisdiction!

If there wasn't so much St Olivia And Her Martyr Kid crap in these things they  could film the detectives doing actual detective work. Like, maybe going up to the damn school and interviewing the staff as to why he quit teaching; he apparently was tearing a pretty sloppy path through the UNDERAGE students and usually on this show that means he was told to pack his stuff and leave quietly and they won't report it, but nope, gotta have Mr. Hargitay come in and say that Noah's grandmother has decided Olivia hasn't suffered enough this week.  Or going to his place of current work and finding out if any complaints have been followed with HR; oops, forget it, we need Liv reading Peter Rabbit to the kid. Next up: their apartment catches on fire and Liv is subjected to an FBI investigation because Grandma Porter made an anonymous phone call accusing her of using Noah as a drug mule.

 

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I can't imagine the trauma if some bio grandmother had come along to take me away.  No thanks.

I am too and am with you 100% on this! This entire storyline is HORSESHIT. And as much as I rag on St. Olivia she was completely right reaming her husband/lawyer out: this was entirely part of his job as her legal representative! You know who else had a responsibility to do due diligence in this??? THE STATE OF NEW YORK. 

Remember how that judge practically shoved Noah into Liv's arms and said if she didn't take him he was going to be tossed into an alligator pit? And then the endless brouhaha over whether she's fit enough when they knew going in she was a single woman with a demanding job--that entire time they were acting so concerned they apparently never ran a family background check to see if he had any relatives LIVING IN THE SAME AREA? Who weren't hiding and hadn't changed their names and were apparently quite willing to take him in? Honestly, both Grandma Porter and Liv have the mother of all civil suits  against CPS over this incompetence.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Snookums

[katisha]

A disappointing episode after the last one was so surprisingly good.  I also kind of hope that Grandma Brooke (and I'm also in denial about her being old enough to be a granny, because it means I am too - argh!) spirits Noah away, never to be seen again. The whole storyline was stupid from the start because it just would not have happened that the judge would have signed the child over to St Olivia without doing thorough checks on whether there were any other next of kin.  It needs to be over, stat.

Edited October 17, 2017 by katisha

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, katisha said:

A disappointing episode after the last one was so surprisingly good.  I also kind of hope that Grandma Brooke (and I'm also in denial about her being old enough to be a granny, because it means I am too - argh!) spirits Noah away, never to be seen again. The whole storyline was stupid from the start because it just would not have happened that the judge would have signed the child over to St Olivia without doing thorough checks on whether there were any other next of kin.  It needs to be over, stat.

Agreed, I would love to see Noah gone, the whole storyline is retarded and stupid, and only written in for MH and her fangirls, MH loves the scenes where she gets to play super mommy Benson, it's an awful, painful to watch storyline. 

I was incredibly disappointed in last weeks episode as were most people, especially after episode 2 was very strong when I didn't expect much from it, last weeks was the opposite, I expected a good episode but it was weak. I hope tomorrow's is better, not really sure what to expect but I don't like not having Fin in it. 

[wknt3]

14 hours ago, Snookums said:

I am too and am with you 100% on this! This entire storyline is HORSESHIT. And as much as I rag on St. Olivia she was completely right reaming her husband/lawyer out: this was entirely part of his job as her legal representative! You know who else had a responsibility to do due diligence in this??? THE STATE OF NEW YORK. 

Remember how that judge practically shoved Noah into Liv's arms and said if she didn't take him he was going to be tossed into an alligator pit? And then the endless brouhaha over whether she's fit enough when they knew going in she was a single woman with a demanding job--that entire time they were acting so concerned they apparently never ran a family background check to see if he had any relatives LIVING IN THE SAME AREA? Who weren't hiding and hadn't changed their names and were apparently quite willing to take him in? Honestly, both Grandma Porter and Liv have the mother of all civil suits  against CPS over this incompetence.

 

Yeah they've managed to take a bad idea and make it worse through poor execution. The difference in quality between the Benoah subplot and the cases (even this week when I thought they stumbled a bit on the case) makes me wonder if we won't find out at somen point when the SVU book comes out that this was MH's personal playground while MC has had control over the rest of the show. It makes me miss Warren Leight's early seasons that drove me away as a regular viewer. He may have loved the family drama and the soap too much, but at least he understood the basics of the craft. If he did this plot he wouldn't have dropped the investigation so soon, and would have at least bothered to connect it (they found Brooke Shields while they were reinvestigating the initial case) and probably would have come up with a plausible explanation beyond complete incompetence (as I said before it wouldn't be hard to come up with something halfway plausible so that a routine check wouldn't have found her, but a more thorough search would have) and wouldn't have wasted all the obvious opportunities they have. When he tortured the characters he at least followed through and didn't half ass it.

[CelticBlackCat]

On 10/14/2017 at 3:09 PM, spunky said:

Writers please stop the Benoah madness!!! It was a good episode. I love it when Barba gets to be on fire in the courtroom. Now since the writers like divulging personal information about certain characters, can we please have a Carisi story.

We started to get a Carisi story in that he had/has a new girlfriend that Rollins was interested in knowing who she was (remember the bra search on his work computer?) but they dropped that like a hot potato.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/16/2017 at 4:04 PM, RedheadZombie said:

Brooke Shields is 52.  Somewhat young, but wasn't Noah's biological mom young, too?  

I read somewhere recently that the average age for a 1st time mom in the US is around 25. So a 52 year old grandmother isn't totally unheard of.

On 10/17/2017 at 11:20 AM, katisha said:

A disappointing episode after the last one was so surprisingly good.  I also kind of hope that Grandma Brooke (and I'm also in denial about her being old enough to be a granny, because it means I am too - argh!) spirits Noah away, never to be seen again. The whole storyline was stupid from the start because it just would not have happened that the judge would have signed the child over to St Olivia without doing thorough checks on whether there were any other next of kin.  It needs to be over, stat.

I really hope that they find out that Grandma is a great person with an awesome home-life and a strong family support system. So even if Benson does keep the kid she really has to think about if she should be fighting and if he would be better off with his biological family. Hell even Dawson on Chicago Fire was smart enough to realize the kid in her care was better off with his biological family. And I hate Dawson.

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I read somewhere recently that the average age for a 1st time mom in the US is around 25. So a 52 year old grandmother isn't totally unheard of.

I really hope that they find out that Grandma is a great person with an awesome home-life and a strong family support system. So even if Benson does keep the kid she really has to think about if she should be fighting and if he would be better off with his biological family. Hell even Dawson on Chicago Fire was smart enough to realize the kid in her care was better off with his biological family. And I hate Dawson.

I think it would be incredibly traumatic to be taken away from the only mother he's ever known.  Brooke didn't do so well with Noah's mother.  But I'm sure I'm biased. 

[spunky]

On 10/17/2017 at 5:27 PM, CelticBlackCat said:

We started to get a Carisi story in that he had/has a new girlfriend that Rollins was interested in knowing who she was (remember the bra search on his work computer?) but they dropped that like a hot potato.

I remember that story. They dropped that, quick, fast and in a hurry. Only to give us more Benoah drama. 

[Gigglepuff]

On 10/18/2017 at 9:55 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I think it would be incredibly traumatic to be taken away from the only mother he's ever known.  Brooke didn't do so well with Noah's mother.  But I'm sure I'm biased. 

The show did this once already with a kid. I can't remember the episode, but they returned a 12 or 13 year old boy to his biological father after being with his adoptive parents his entire life. I remember Cragen saying, "everyone wants a piece of the kid," or something similar. I think in that case, the adoptive parents didn't know the adoption had been illegal and that there had been no search for a surviving relative. 

[LizDC]

14 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

The show did this once already with a kid. I can't remember the episode, but they returned a 12 or 13 year old boy to his biological father after being with his adoptive parents his entire life. I remember Cragen saying, "everyone wants a piece of the kid," or something similar. I think in that case, the adoptive parents didn't know the adoption had been illegal and that there had been no search for a surviving relative. 

That was "Stolen" from Season 3.  Back when it was an ensemble and not The Olivia Benson Show. 

I've always wanted that case to be revisited somehow.  After the biological father won custody he looked conflicted about it, like maybe he was rethinking taking the kid from the adoptive parents. 

[Gigglepuff]

Right! Thanks, @LizDC! That was a good episode. Made me feel for all involved. 

[Xeliou66]

That episode was Stolen from season 3. Great episode, but I thought the judge's decision was stupid. I always wanted them to revisit that as well as I think there were going to be issues with that family. The son didn't want to leave his adoptive parents and it would be very traumatic for him to, and also don't forget that he was going to live with his bio dad who also had 2 other sons, and the mom of those 2 kids was the murderer of the bio mom of the son that was going to live there. That would certainly cause resentment and issues. 

I really liked that episode because of how it used Cragen and Munch so much and how it had great continuity with Cragen telling Munch about Greevey and getting the case files from Greevey's widow. I miss when the show wasn't all Benson 

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; Quite liked the bit with the shell which I must say that I missed the significance of the first time I watched this ep. Some nice Fin/Carisi and Carisi/Barba stuff and now we all know a little bit more about Dante's Inferno. 

The Bad; Let the witness talk, stop interrupting/leading them. You do not do suspect ID's off your I-phone with only one person as a suspect, mistaken witness ID is thought to be responsible for 70% of false convictions. Equally take proper witness descriptions, not just rely on the few things that stood out to them. Fin shouldn't antagonise the waitress by telling her to 'focus' either.

Summary; You have to wonder that they didn't try for a plea bargain, he drops the charges against her for assaulting him and she drops the rape? Note how quickly and gleefully Fin jumps on the chance to arrest the ex-teacher, even Rollins seems to have her doubts on the subject. You'd wonder that his lawyer didn't tear the accuser up on the witness stand, pointing out she only recovered this memory when she was facing years in jail and it was completely uncorroborated, so easy to depict her as a woman scorned. Surely it's unethical for Olivia to try to influence Barba's decision (when he's been drinking!), the whole point of the DA is that they should have some independence from the police (in the UK they don't even meet face to face, the CPS evaluate the casefile sent via computer).

 Olivia lashing out at the lawyer was a painful scene although you know how she feels, how many victims have done the same to her? How lovely does Brook Shields still look? Although the irony of course is that the nudity she did earlier in her career would now technically qualify as child porn!

Overall; 8/10      

[QueenMab]

Joe.. Benson and the ADA Barba have a "relationship" that  IRL must never happen. Collusion, conspiracy, undue influence, sexual manipulation and misconduct, as well as personal prejudices and bias..and the clear possibility of "gross miscarriages of Justice" and lawsuits from defense counsel...are all reasons the cops and ADA's DO NOT fraternize, much less form close intimate relationships with each other. One of the big reasons for the criticism that this show is just a nighttime soap opera about sex...that violates the real moral parameters and ethical boundaries of both Benson and Barba's professions. 

[Joe Hellandback]

Another thing that struck me is that the girls seemed very quick to blame this affair they had with their teacher for all their problems, I mean they were 16 at the time, still a crime but they weren't children, the guy's an ephebophile, not a paedophile. 

6 hours ago, QueenMab said:

Joe.. Benson and the ADA Barba have a "relationship" that  IRL must never happen. Collusion, conspiracy, undue influence, sexual manipulation and misconduct, as well as personal prejudices and bias..and the clear possibility of "gross miscarriages of Justice" and lawsuits from defense counsel...are all reasons the cops and ADA's DO NOT fraternize, much less form close intimate relationships with each other. One of the big reasons for the criticism that this show is just a nighttime soap opera about sex...that violates the real moral parameters and ethical boundaries of both Benson and Barba's professions. 

I'd love a new DA to come in and start telling everyone to stop all this but I guess we watch TV shows for human interaction, not the good guys at loggerheads with one another.