S07.E02: A Pirate's Life

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

By the time the new trio of Henry, Regina, and Wish Hook have been cursed to Seattle, at least another 10 years should have passed. So, why aren't Regina and Wish Hook older-looking in HH? They presumably spent all of the last ten years with Henry, and in the mean time Henry has an 8 (?) year old daughter. By all counts, Regina ought to be looking to be in her 50s, and Wish Hook in his 40s, by my estimation. I assume Henry is in his early 30s. Did they find a convenient dragon egg shell to retain their youthful good looks? Or was it regular juice fasts? 

To quote S2:

Greg: "But I recognized you, because you look exactly the same, Regina. It's as if no time has passed for you."

Regina: "Monthly juice cleanse. It does wonders for the skin."

Edited October 16, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

By the time the new trio of Henry, Regina, and Wish Hook have been cursed to Seattle, at least another 10 years should have passed. So, why aren't Regina and Wish Hook older-looking in HH?

I'm still clinging to the "time moves differently" thing for original Hook and Emma, but Wish Hook/Rogers and Regina would be in the same timeline with Henry, and so should age going forward. One possible handwave is that the spell that de-aged older Wish Hook didn't just re-set the clock for him, taking him back to Real Hook's appearance, from which he would then age normally, but permanently set his appearance at that age, while inside he's still Old Hook. Regina probably magically gives herself de-aging spells. Yeah, her magic supposedly didn't work in that world, but then how did she fling one of those guards across the room with a wave of her hand? She can do some magic.

Back to the eternally discussed ballet recital: If the ballet school amounts to about five girls who barely move while on stage, it's not a very good school, and there's no way it would draw students whose parents could/would pay $550 for a recital ticket. But I guess we'll just have to pretend it was fancier than what we saw and they were limited by production realities to that set/location with a tiny stage -- like the way the "social event of the year" New York weddings in Hallmark movies always look like they're happening in the function space of a suburban Comfort Inn.

As for our detectives, while Weaver's outfit definitely has that "the 80s called and they want their look back" thing going on, the real problem is that they really should be wearing suits. That's the standard "uniform" for big-city police detectives unless they're in particular situations where they need to blend into an environment where suits would instantly mark them as cops or outsiders -- surveillance, security, meeting with informants, casual information gathering, etc. Meeting in the office of a woman supposedly so rich and powerful that she can give them orders and then attending a ritzy charity function, they'd be wearing suits, not jeans. You'd think it would have been in character for straight-arrow "Eagle Scout" Rogers to have shown up for his first day on the job as a detective in a suit (possibly even with a vest, to tie in with his real identity), which would have set up the culture clash between him and "I make my own rules" Weaver. I just hope Rogers, unlike his "real" counterpart, gets to have clothes rather than a costume, so that he, like any real person, has a variety of outfits, and not just minor variations on the jeans/t-shirt/windbreaker look they went with once he was out of uniform. Oh, and the lack of guyliner really makes the blue eyes pop. It's the same actor as in the flashbacks, but Rogers' eyes come across as a much brighter blue than Hook's, even in the scenes in daylight on the Jolly Roger.

Was Weaver really testing the morals of a guy whose department nickname is "Eagle Scout," or was that just his cover up to keep Rogers from ratting him out when he didn't go along with the shadiness? Then again, when your partner is known as "Eagle Scout," isn't it a bit risky to ask him to do something shady on your first day working together? The whole situation seems so very contrived that none of it really makes sense and was clearly done just to fit the episode's theme.

[Mari]

I did enjoy Old Drunk Hook only pretending to be drunk. 

 

It it was also nice, however nonsensical and convoluted and hand-wavey, that they set it up so Killian stayed with Emma.  I wish we could have seen the tiny excuse dragons.  

 

If I were still invested in this show, I'd point out how ridiculous it is that Henry's nose got smaller as he became an official adult. But, since I didn't really pay attention to scenes unrelated to Emma, I must not have noticed.

 

That is all. 

 

ETA:  Realized later that my comment about Henry's nose could've been interpreted as a slam about Jared Gilmore's appearance.  It wasn't meant as such--he's not a bad-looking kid at all--but he definitely doesn't have remotely the same nose as New Henry.  

Edited October 16, 2017 by Mari
Missed a word. And clarification.

[Rumsy4]

5 minutes ago, Mari said:

If I were still invested in this show, I'd point out how ridiculous it is that Henry's nose got smaller as he became an official adult

Hey, maybe he gave himself a magical nosejob. ;-p

[iMonrey]

Quote

So, why haven't any of the return characters (other than Henry) aged?

The reality is that they only aged Henry because they knew nobody wanted to watch a show centered around Jared Gilmore. He's 17; Andrew J. West is 33. Not sure how old the aged-up Henry is supposed to be but everyone should be about 10 years older, at least. I don't think they're overly concerned with the fact that Regina, Rumple and Hook don't look any older than they did last year because . . . magic! It's been their get-out-of-jail-free card for the last six seasons so why worry now?

[Watt]

I got the impression Henry stopped by home every do often that's why they didn't act like they hadn't seen him in 10 years. Also that time moves differently in different realms.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Watt

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Mari said:

If I were still invested in this show, I'd point out how ridiculous it is that Henry's nose got smaller as he became an official adult.

His nose grew first, and then his face grew around his nose?

They are being consistent with some things. Like, Whook backing off on his scheme once he knew Emma was pregnant because he didn't want to separate Hook from his child is consistent with Hook planning to back off and give Neal a chance to be with Emma so that Henry would have an intact family. And Regina apparently having no life without Henry is consistent with her drama queen behavior in the Missing Year, when she didn't even strike any real sparks with her designated soulmate because she was incapable of happiness while being separated from Henry. I'm sure they think they're showing what a great mother she is and how close their bond is, but it's not very healthy (while very consistent) that she's incapable of making her own happiness, that she needs her son or a boyfriend to have anything like a happy ending. I guess having an important job running the town, the dwarfs bowing to her, having a sister and niece and other friends was all nothing because she could just drop it all and run off to another world.

[WordsWordsWords]

The best thing about this episode was Colin's acting. Old Drunk (but not-so-much) Hook, StorybrookeHook, WishHook -- all quite different and yet still clearly connected.  I was also very happy to see Jennifer for a few minutes. I'll miss her.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I got the impression Henry stopped by home every so often that's why they didn't act like they hadn't seen him in 10 years. Also that time moves differently in different realms.

The way Regina reacted to Henry the first time she saw him, making a point of how different he looked because he was all grown up, very strongly suggested she had not seen him since the opening scene in the season premier when Jared Gilmore was playing him and took off on his motorcycle. Also, the conversation between them when she was filling him in on what was going on back in Storybrooke suggested he had not been back home since he left either.

Also, there has been no suggestion that time moves differently in different realms. That's a nice fan-wank for why Regina, Rumple and Hook don't look any older while Henry has clearly aged at least 10-15 years, but it has no basis in any of the known dialogue in this show. On the contrary, if that was the show's intention it should have been addressed by the characters: Regina should have been shocked at how much older Henry looked if she herself had only experienced a year or two since he'd left. There should have been some discussion of it like "Hey, this is weird, I haven't seen you in 10 years but you say I've only been gone one year in your world? Freaky." Instead there's some throw-away line about Regina having a juice cleanse. Clearly the show has no interest in making an effort to acknowledge the discrepancy, which should come as no surprise to anyone who's watched the show for the past six seasons.

[SiobhanJW]

22 hours ago, Souris said:

I'm honestly not sure how much of this is rumors and how much is speculation. I think it's mostly speculation based on people's observations. I always figured they were co-workers who worked together fine but weren't pals outside of the set and would never choose to hang out together -- their personalities are clearly very different. Nothing unusual there, as pretty much everybody has co-workers who are simply co-workers, whereas other co-workers they'd call friends. But there have been a few things that make people go "hmmm" -- for instance, when some fans were pressing Jen on Twitter to post more of the pics she's taken of herself and Lana, Jen replied "you have them all." And another time when Lana was livestreaming at the upfronts and pointed her phone at Jen, Jen about-faced and walked away. And they never would have photo duos at cons, and now only appear at the same con on different days. Probably all open to interpretation, and there could be various explanations, but I do now rather get the sense that they aren't exactly close.

Hmm.. interesting. Thanks for explaining. 

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The reality is that they only aged Henry because they knew nobody wanted to watch a show centered around Jared Gilmore. He's 17; Andrew J. West is 33. Not sure how old the aged-up Henry is supposed to be but everyone should be about 10 years older, at least. I don't think they're overly concerned with the fact that Regina, Rumple and Hook don't look any older than they did last year because . . . magic! It's been their get-out-of-jail-free card for the last six seasons so why worry now?

I also thought Jared Gilmore wanted to go to college and wasn't interested continuing with the show, save for 1-2 episodes. 

[Camera One]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I also thought Jared Gilmore wanted to go to college and wasn't interested continuing with the show, save for 1-2 episodes. 

It wasn't his choice to leave.

10 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

So, why haven't any of the return characters (other than Henry) aged? The time-works-differently element was not mentioned at all,

Which is strange since I'm pretty sure A&E said something about time moving differently in the summer.  Unless I am remembering wrong.  It would be kinda ridiculous if they expected the audience to just shrug it off and declare that everyone just ages really well.

5 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

They are being consistent with some things. Like, Whook backing off on his scheme once he knew Emma was pregnant because he didn't want to separate Hook from his child is consistent with Hook planning to back off and give Neal a chance to be with Emma so that Henry would have an intact family.

It's not consistent with Hook killing David's father.

 

13 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

I was wondering if he just randomly left his apartment unlocked too.

I guess some people have a separate key chain for their house vs. their car, but isn't that a bit strange?  I don't see what was the point of WHook taking that Swan keychain... convenient that later on, he could substitute that for Victoria's bracelet.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Camera One

[Scarlett45]

Oh thanks @Camera One  

[Shanna Marie]

12 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It's not consistent with Hook killing David's father.

Yeah, well that wasn't consistent with anything else about Hook -- committing cold-blooded murder of a defenseless man when it had nothing to do with his revenge, killing a father, caring whether there were witnesses to the crime when he was about to head back to Neverland, committing crimes on land when he considered that a real comedown during the Missing Year. However, that did happen during Hook's worst phase, while he backed off for Neal's family's sake after he'd started turning his life around. Meanwhile, WHook was trying to turn his life around (though going about it the wrong way) when he backed off. So it kind of works.

16 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I guess some people have a separate key chain for their house vs. their car, but isn't that a bit strange?  I don't see what was the point of WHook taking that Swan keychain... convenient that later on, he could substitute that for Victoria's bracelet.

I have a big keychain with my car key, my house key, and my mailbox key on it, and I have a small keychain with just a house key on it that I use when I'm walking somewhere or taking the bus so that I don't have the bulk of the car key. That keychain fits more easily into a pocket. So it makes some sense. However, it was rather a contrivance to set up the bracelet switch. I guess Rogers took it because he had the swan thing on the brain, and they were still trying to make us think that Rogers was our Hook, missing Emma.

[Rumsy4]

10 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

Or maybe they are just enjoying life without Regina and Rumple too much to care?

This must be it!! lol

[Writing Wrongs]

So if Wish Realm is real, does that mean Isaac's Alt Universe was real too?

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Which is strange since I'm pretty sure A&E said something about time moving differently in the summer.  Unless I am remembering wrong.  It would be kinda ridiculous if they expected the audience to just shrug it off and declare that everyone just ages really well.

If they're doing the whole "time moves differently in different realms" thing, then it needs to be stated somewhere in the show. There's been no mention of it whatsoever this season.

[Camera One]

14 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

If they're doing the whole "time moves differently in different realms" thing, then it needs to be stated somewhere in the show. There's been no mention of it whatsoever this season.

As others have said, this episode would have been the most natural time to say it.  If time is moving faster in New Realm, for sure Emma, Regina or Hook would have commented on it.

Never mind, I just figured it out.  When Regina decided to leave Storybrooke to stay with Adult Henry, time in Storybrooke stopped because she was the core of the town.  Without Regina, life can't go on.  Who can run the town as well as she can?  Who can be the Queen everyone bows down to?  Time stopped at 8:15 once again.  So when Regina finally returns to Storybrooke triumphant, everything will be just as she'd left it, and she can pick up as Mayor and Queen where she left off.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Never mind, I just figured it out.  When Regina decided to leave Storybrooke to stay with Adult Henry, time in Storybrooke stopped because she was the core of the town.  Without Regina, life can't go on.  Who can run the town as well as she can?  Who can be the Queen everyone bows down to?  Time stopped at 8:15 once again.  So when Regina finally returns to Storybrooke triumphant, everything will be just as she'd left it, and she can pick up as Mayor and Queen where she left off.

Look, you're starting to scare me now. This sounds exactly like something the master storytellers would come up with.

[Souris]

Forget the mental exorcism, this calls for a mental exorcism intervention!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Yeah, well that wasn't consistent with anything else about Hook -- committing cold-blooded murder of a defenseless man when it had nothing to do with his revenge, killing a father, caring whether there were witnesses to the crime when he was about to head back to Neverland, committing crimes on land when he considered that a real comedown during the Missing Year.

Not to mention that, if anything, he should have *wanted* David's father to spread the story of how he, Captain Hook, outwitted King George. That's how pirates get and keep their reputations.

14 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

So, until further notice, I'm going to assume that time flows the same as anywhere else in Cinders' Realm. So when they meet adult Henry in alt EF, Emma and Hook would've been in their late 30s, and Regina in her 40s (she's at least 5-10 years older than Snow).

By the time the new trio of Henry, Regina, and Wish Hook have been cursed to Seattle, at least another 10 years should have passed. So, why aren't Regina and Wish Hook older-looking in HH? They presumably spent all of the last ten years with Henry, and in the mean time Henry has an 8 (?) year old daughter.

You have done a relatively large time jump. Is there anything you can say as to just how far ahead we are, both in flashbacks and in Hyperion Heights?
HOROWITZ: I would say that it’s not as simple as it appears, and we get into that in the first couple of episodes.
KITSIS: I would say as long as it takes Henry to go from Jared to Andrew.
HOROWITZ: But it’s not as simple as it looks, because we’re not in the year 2030.
KITSIS: Yes, we’re not doing sci-fi. As we’ve said in the past, some realms move at their own time.
HOROWITZ: But we get into how all that works very quickly, but the present-day Hyperion Heights, Seattle stuff takes place in 2017.

However, that doesn't explain Wish Hook and Regina not looking older if they've been around Henry, Cinderella and Lucy all the time Lucy was growing up. Unless they leave at some point when it looks like Lady Tremaine is defeated, and come back shortly before the Curse is cast.

[snarkastic]

9 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

You have done a relatively large time jump. Is there anything you can say as to just how far ahead we are, both in flashbacks and in Hyperion Heights?
HOROWITZ: I would say that it’s not as simple as it appears, and we get into that in the first couple of episodes.
KITSIS: I would say as long as it takes Henry to go from Jared to Andrew.
HOROWITZ: But it’s not as simple as it looks, because we’re not in the year 2030.
KITSIS: Yes, we’re not doing sci-fi. As we’ve said in the past, some realms move at their own time.
HOROWITZ: But we get into how all that works very quickly, but the present-day Hyperion Heights, Seattle stuff takes place in 2017.

Emma and Neal meet in 2001 according to the flashbacks. Henry was 18 when he left Storybrooke. So they are are either lying, horrendously bad at math, or both.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Just now, snarkastic said:

Emma and Neal meet in 2001 according to the flashbacks. Henry was 18 when he left Storybrooke. So they are are either lying, horrendously bad at math, or both.

I'm going to go with the latter. From the Trivia section of Henry's page on Once Upon a Time Wiki:

* Henry is ten years old in "Pilot", eleven in "The Cricket Game", and twelve years old in "The Jolly Roger". In "Dreamcatcher", he says to Sir Morgan that he is thirteen years old. However, the show's timeline would place the episode in early 2014, and Henry was born in August 2001, meaning that Henry was not yet thirteen at that point.[5]

** In "Our Decay", Emma implies that Henry is "officially" a teenager, but this episode also seems to take place before he turns thirteen.

* In "The Final Battle Part 1", the Black Fairy calls Henry "a 14-year-old who still believes in fairy tales". This, however, seems to be a mistake on the Black Fairy's part, since Henry's young uncle Prince Neal was born in "Kansas", which takes place in 2013, when Henry was twelve. Neal, however, is still just a baby in "The Final Battle Part 1" (if Henry were fourteen, Neal would be a two-year old toddler).

[Camera One]

I don't know if this is the right place for this, but I'm hosting a charity fundraiser and selling tickets.  It's in an up-and-coming neighborhood and we have some great entertainment lined up with a childrens' ballet class and of course it's for a great cause.  We're still looking for a second bartender so if you know of any unqualified wait-staff interested in working the gig or if you just want to attend, it's $550 per ticket, let me know.  

[Mitch]

The age thing is weird...at least have Regina say, "Well, luckily we broke Curse 3888 which left us in a suspended state.."  But also, wouldn't Regina and Emma be upset that they missed out in all those years of Henry's life...( I mean, I know Henry is annoying but he is their kid.)  Emma would be upset as she missed out so many years with Henry and Regina seems to be the kind of mom who wants to be there for EVERYTHING...Its odd.

[iMonrey]

Quote

HOROWITZ: I would say that it’s not as simple as it appears, and we get into that in the first couple of episodes.
KITSIS: I would say as long as it takes Henry to go from Jared to Andrew.
HOROWITZ: But it’s not as simple as it looks, because we’re not in the year 2030.
KITSIS: Yes, we’re not doing sci-fi. As we’ve said in the past, some realms move at their own time.
HOROWITZ: But we get into how all that works very quickly, but the present-day Hyperion Heights, Seattle stuff takes place in 2017.

A&E are the masters of hand-waving and covering their own asses after the fact. They get on Twitter or Facebook or wherever every week to explain things in the just-aired episode that don't make any sense. They've been doing it for years. Frankly, if you have to constantly explain your story after the fact because viewers were confused by what they perceived as discrepancies, you are a crappy, half-assed writer. 

"KITSIS: Yes, we’re not doing sci-fi. As we’ve said in the past, some realms move at their own time." Um, it doesn't really matter what they've said, in interviews, as much as what is said in the show. Yeah, maybe they have a vague idea in their minds that they can get away with crap because "magic" or "other realms" is always an easy-out. But if they don't address those things in the show, they aren't doing their jobs. 

If 10-15 years have passed for Henry in this realm, and only 1-2 years have passed in Storybrooke, somebody on the show needs to say so. Somebody needs to go "Whoa! You're Henry? But how can you be this much older? Wait - you say 10-15 years have passed since you left Storybrooke? It was only last year in my realm!"

See? That's not so hard to do, is it?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

15 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If 10-15 years have passed for Henry in this realm, and only 1-2 years have passed in Storybrooke, somebody on the show needs to say so. Somebody needs to go "Whoa! You're Henry? But how can you be this much older? Wait - you say 10-15 years have passed since you left Storybrooke? It was only last year in my realm!"

See? That's not so hard to do, is it?

Or at least, "it's amazing to see you all grown up, but of course we knew that would happen".

[CinAZ]

I just got a chance to watch this episode. 

Cinderella/Jacinda really ruins this version of OAT.  I don’t know if it is her acting or just the characters she is playing, I could not wait to FF thru all her scenes.  Absolutely no chemistry with Henry. Well, no chemistry with anyone. And not fond of the kid, Lucy, but she isn’t nearly as bad as her mom and step-grandmother. All three pretty much take me out of what ever scene they are currently chewing through.

it was nice seeing Emma. It really showed me how much Emma et. al. added to this show.   Hook /WishHook pretty much saved the episode for me. Even Regina was a welcome sight.

Not sure how I feel about Rumple yet.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Or at least, "it's amazing to see you all grown up, but of course we knew that would happen".

Emma and Regina both commented on the fact that he was all grown up. They could have meant it in the way you might if you see someone you last saw as a child years ago, where you know intellectually that years have gone by and that the child would obviously have grown up, but it's still something of a shock to see it. Or they could have meant it in the sense that he's only been gone three months, so how did that happen? It would have been nice if they'd specified, and it would have been so easy to do.

Hook just went straight to him and hugged him, with no expression of surprise or shock. More like, "Hey, good to see you, buddy."

They said they'd explain the time stuff in the first couple of episodes, but it's been the first couple of episodes, and one in which the jump needed explaining. Now they're saying they will explain it but can't now because spoilers. The problem is, the characters needed to have reacted in this episode. If you need to have the characters not react normally for fear of spoiling a future plot point, then you need to rewrite.

[kingshearte]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

A&E are the masters of hand-waving and covering their own asses after the fact. They get on Twitter or Facebook or wherever every week to explain things in the just-aired episode that don't make any sense. They've been doing it for years. Frankly, if you have to constantly explain your story after the fact because viewers were confused by what they perceived as discrepancies, you are a crappy, half-assed writer. 

This is the thing that I just can't wrap my head around. If it happens once, OK, fine. Everybody's human, and we all have those moments when it was perfectly clear to us because we knew what we meant. You explain whatever it is and say oops, I guess we shouldn't have cut that scene, and you strive to do better. But when you are constantly being asked to explain things because they're not clear enough on their own merits, how do you not recognize that you have a problem?

Edited October 17, 2017 by kingshearte
Word order is important

[Shanna Marie]

52 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

But when you are constantly being asked to explain things because they're not clear enough on their own merits, how do you not recognize that you have a problem?

That takes some self-awareness and humility. It's far easier to scoff at your audience and blame them for not getting what should have been so obvious. Do you really need it explained to you that some things happen offscreen and they can't show everything? Are you not capable of connecting the dots on your own? They don't seem to realize that there's something that needed a better explanation until the questions start pouring in.

And there's the withholding of information because everything has to be a surprise. Apparently, it would be a spoiler to explain how time is working, how Henry can be an adult but no one else has aged, even though that's a factor in this episode.

On another note, it really struck me how inappropriately Rogers and Weaver were dressed for work when attending that recital. They looked so out of place. Way to blend in, detectives. I also have a very hard time imagining that no one in that audience protested the idea that only the help would be searched or Weaver getting brutal with Henry. Even in an extremely conservative city like Dallas, I used to have to work with a lot of the big players on the charity/social circuit, and I'm pretty certain several of them would have been right out of their seats, raising a stink.

And while Rogers gets to wear more "normal" clothes than even Hook's contemporary look, they did manage to come as close as possible to Hook's costume, with the dark shirt and black jacket. At least all the Hooks got to switch from black jeans to blue jeans.

[Camera One]

Wouldn't they start with, has any seen a bracelet on the floor?  Why wouldn't the guests be suspects?  Is the police allowed to do un-invasive searches like that for a bracelet?

I can imagine the script directions for this episode.

EMMA sees HENRY, all grown up.  She looks at Henry in an expression that is between surprise and non-surprise.  She clearly misses him but it is ambiguously unclear how much time has passed by since she saw him last. #Nospoilers.

[Shanna Marie]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Wouldn't they start with, has any seen a bracelet on the floor?  Why wouldn't the guests be suspects?  Is the police allowed to do un-invasive searches like that for a bracelet?

Yeah, first, they'd search the room. I don't think they'd be able to search the staff without probable cause or a warrant. Getting to probable cause would require searching the room first, to make sure she hadn't just dropped it. I don't think they could get away with searching just the staff and not the guests. "They're poor and more likely to steal" would not count as probable cause. The guests were more likely to have mingled with Victoria. She's so icy, would she even have let the staff within arm's reach of her? There had to have been at least one lawyer in the group, and most lawyers would have spoken up. I know "rich people are evil" is a popular theme in entertainment (which is produced by people who would be considered wealthy), but the rich people I've had to deal with who are involved in charity events like this are very nice, caring people, not at all snobby, and would jump up to champion an underdog. And they wouldn't have called police detectives for a missing bracelet.

It's interesting that in this episode the narrative is that Rogers wanted the promotion so much that it was suspicious what he might do to get it, while last week, he was called "Eagle Scout" at the police station. Which is it? Would they call someone who was openly ambitious and overly eager "Eagle Scout"? That's a nickname for someone who's loyal, honest, and upright. They'd use a different nickname for someone who's ultra ambitious and willing to do anything for a promotion.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

18 minutes ago, Camera One said:

EMMA sees HENRY, all grown up.  She looks at Henry in an expression that is between surprise and non-surprise.  She clearly misses him but it is ambiguously unclear how much time has passed by since she saw him last. #Nospoilers.

That sounds just right, it really does.

[Camera One]

They never really specified how long it has been since Regina/Emma/Hook has seen Henry in this episode. 

But based on Lana's interview: 

Quote

INTERVIEWER: Is it a bit heartbreaking for Regina to have missed so many years with Henry?
PARILLA: Absolutely, and you get to see a little bit of that too. She basically sees him for the first time, and she is just like, “Oh my God, I realize how long it’s been since we’ve seen each other,” and I think it’s jarring for her when she sees him for the first time, but she’s also really happy for him, because he’s turned into this beautiful young man, and she’s really quite impressed with him, but she’s still getting to know him now at this level.

So I don't think Henry has been popping back to Storybrooke for visits at all.  And it's nothing like a child going off to NYC for college and coming home for Thanksgiving, or whatever nonsense A&E were spewing.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Regina: "Well, Granny's added poke. Archie's seen business go down because of all the happy endings. But on the flip side, his wedding officiating has gone way up."
Henry: "As for my family? Grandma? Grandpa?"
Regina: "As you can imagine, sickingly happy."

So in the past 5-7 years (as Lana stated), Granny has added raw tuna to the menu, Snowing have been up to nothing in particular, and Archie is officiating marriages we'll never know about. Wow. These writers are so creative. Couldn't they come up with something a little more fun? Granny getting hitched with Geppetto or some other crack ship getting together? The whole "happy ending" thing with nothing interesting every happening again just doesn't make any sense. It's not like everything in Storybrooke until S6 was connected in one cohesive situation. There were random urns, getting sucked into random realms, and all kinds of villainous characters popping up. It's not like everything stemmed from something that's since been stopped for good. 

These writers are so afraid of sticking to a timeline that they have to be as vague and ambiguous as possible. No specific dates or events. They're terrified of being constricted. 

Quote

Hook: "If [Henry] knew what really happened, he'd drop everything and come back."

Hook spoke as if there was some event that happened in the past. If Emma were pregnant, wouldn't it be more like, "If he knew about Emma"? It sounded like it was worded to signal that something terrible transpired. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Noneofyourbusiness]

53 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

So in the past 5-7 years (as Lana stated), Granny has added raw tuna to the menu, Snowing have been up to nothing in particular, and Archie is officiating marriages we'll never know about. Wow. These writers are so creative.

I'd rather the tiny annoying dragons that Henry fell for had been real.

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Hook spoke as if there was some event that happened in the past. If Emma were pregnant, wouldn't it be more like, "If he knew about Emma"? It sounded like it was worded to signal that something terrible transpired. 

That was a really cheap mis-direct.  Including that argument where Regina insisted Hook tell the truth about Emma.

And when Henry found out, he certainly didn't drop everything to come back.  Dropping "everything" equals what?  Being a loser?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Camera One

[Souris]

7 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Hook spoke as if there was some event that happened in the past. If Emma were pregnant, wouldn't it be more like, "If he knew about Emma"? It sounded like it was worded to signal that something terrible transpired. 

 

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

That was a really cheap mis-direct.  Including that argument where Regina insisted Hook tell the truth about Emma.

I've been meaning to bring this up! They wrote that, as well as Hook and Regina being unwilling to say that Emma was OK, for no other reason than to make the audience afraid that something bad had happened to Emma. Nothing but deliberately tricking the audience. Once we found out she was pregnant, those lines made ZERO sense. There was no reason for them to refer to "what happened" to Emma. Or being unwilling to say she was fine. It's not like pregnancy is a dread disease that would make saying Emma's just fine a lie. Such cheap, disingenuous, crappy writing. Again, they put pulling one over on the audience above honest writing.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Souris

[CheshireCat]

On ‎14‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 10:37 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I thought it was a tower, too. Of course, Rapunzel's tower is a prison, and she was put there by a witch, and in the fairy tale had someone sneak in there regularly. And the rook chess piece looks like a tower. So Rapunzel is a likely candidate.

Rapunzel definitely was the first name that jumped to my mind when fake Hook mentioned the few details that he did mention.

 

On ‎14‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 10:44 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

So, Wish Realm people are real after all, not just Wish Robin as the exception because of original Robin's soul, and therefore we should care about Rogers as a character. And they can move between realms just fine, even though Regina and Emma were worried Wish Robin wouldn't be able to and took his travel through the portal in Storybrooke as some kind of sign. But it's still just fine that Regina kidnapped and murdered King Charming and Queen Snow (lol, I almost said 'King Snow and Queen Charming'). Make up your minds!

I always assumed that the characters are real in the Wish Realm but that the stories aren't/that the stories are every changing/influenced by wishes, hence, the name Wish Realm.

What I found a bit confusing is that he has a daughter and that he found misery and heartbreak because the curse wasn't cast. He said that his and Hook's story aligned for a while but they must have split before the curse wasn't cast, otherwise, he could hardly have had a daughter by the time the curse wasn't cast and get miserable.

Anyway, I try not to think about it too much and piece these things together in my mind as we go along and get new information, otherwise, I'd go crazy.

 

On ‎14‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 11:02 PM, Shanna Marie said:

Oh, God, they're going to pair them up, aren't they? Everything Emma gets, Regina gets given to her. She'll get her own Hook.

Ew, please no! Somehow, I find this thought weirdly disgusting. I mean, Hook hooking up (no pun intended) with Henry's biological grandmother and mother is weird enough. But if another version of Hook hooked up with his adoptive mother, too... No, thanks!

 

On ‎15‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 11:36 PM, tessaray said:

Well, the SQ shippers are real but the rest is speculation, as far as I know.  This episode could have just involved shooting schedules that didn't match up. 

 

That's what I thought. Regina was barely in any outdoor scene and she was barely in any scenes at Roni's, so my guess was that she probably wasn't on set much for that particular episode.

 

About the ballet recital, I agree that this charity thing was ridiculous. If it had been a more professional recital, with a real stage, in a theater, with dancers in real costumes and attending a professional/semi-professional school then I could have believed it. But not like this. (And this "stepmother took away the daughter" story frustrates me to no end because it is SO unrealistic. Even if I suspend disbelief because this is a TV show, it just doesn't work because there isn't an ounce of realism in it. This just isn't a possible scenario, no matter how I look at it. As much as I love this show, A&E are the worst when it comes to adoption and/or custody)

I think that the actor who plays Henry lacked the excitement Jared Gilmore had in the fairy tale scenes in this episode. I guess, it might be due to the fact that JMo, Parilla and Donoghue are already in their seventh season and he's completely new but I felt that there was something missing that Gilmore had.

So, this realm has not heard of the Evil Queen/doesn't know her? Or is it just Drizella?

I so wished at the end of the episode that Regina had her memories. She doesn't need to have magic but that facial expression kind of made me think that it would be fun to have the true Regina (and not Roni) go up against Lady Tremaine.

And I'm still intrigued by Rumple/the role that he plays.

Edited October 19, 2017 by CheshireCat

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

What I found a bit confusing is that he has a daughter and that he found misery and heartbreak because the curse wasn't cast. He said that his and Hook's story aligned for a while but they must have split before the curse wasn't cast, otherwise, he could hardly have had a daughter by the time the curse wasn't cast and get miserable.

I think you're a bit confused there, because he said their stories split after the curse but then you're talking like the daughter has to have existed by the time the curse was cast. There were 30 years between when the curse was/wasn't cast and when the wish was made in which it could have happened. It could even have happened after Emma first met Old Hook, since men remain fertile in old age.

[Kktjones]

I did get around to watching the episode finally (or at least watching the Emma & Hook scenes and ffing through most of the rest). Overall I’m satisfied with the closure they gave to CaptainSwan. Do I wish it had gone differently and they had shown us more of their life together? Of course. But I resigned myself to the fact this isn’t that kind of show a long time ago.

I loathed the entire Wish!Realm and especially Old Hook, but somehow Colin did make me feel for him when he was dying and talking about his daughter. Unfortunately, it’s just not enough to keep me interested long term.

As usual the dialogue was super strange (the aforementioned Hook/Regina convo after Henry asks about Emma, Emma saying “We’re a family…almost”, the entire exchange on the Jolly, etc.).

Are you really telling me not one person at the ballet recital whipped out their phone and started video-taping when Det. Weaver made his announcement? That was probably the most unrealistic thing about the entire ep!

I’ve seen some people talking about Emma “abandoning” Henry and I have to wonder if they actually watched the episode? So now staying home when your grown child moves away constitutes abandonment? I actually think Regina tagging along on Henry’s adventure is way worse. It’s borderline creepy and makes him look like a pathetic mama’s boy.

Some time has to have passed since Henry left, so why couldn’t they just let Emma have the short hair JMo is currently sporting? The extensions just looked SO BAD!

My regular viewing ends here, but I may pop in from time to time to talk about the old days or see what’s going on and how everyone feels about it. I came into the season sort of rooting for it to fail and get cancelled. But now that I know CaptainSwan is off happy together and these writers can’t ruin them, I really don’t care.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Kktjones said:

Emma saying “We’re a family…almost”

What kind of an answer is it anyway to a question about how she and Hook were doing? Is Emma/A&E implying that a married couple aren't a family until they have a child??!

1 hour ago, Kktjones said:

I actually think Regina tagging along on Henry’s adventure is way worse. It’s borderline creepy and makes him look like a pathetic mama’s boy.

And Regina is as usual sad and bitter without either her son or a romantic partner. She needs it all--money, status, magic, a child, romantic love, "friends" who will kow tow to her every whim, etc.. 

What's the betting Regina regains her ability to do magic in Alt!EF soon enough?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Kktjones said:

I’ve seen some people talking about Emma “abandoning” Henry and I have to wonder if they actually watched the episode? So now staying home when your grown child moves away constitutes abandonment? I actually think Regina tagging along on Henry’s adventure is way worse. It’s borderline creepy and makes him look like a pathetic mama’s boy.

It's the difference between letting him move away and letting him face what you know for a fact to be mortal peril all on his own. I'm glad Regina stayed, though I don't blame Emma for not staying when she's pregnant.

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

What's the betting Regina regains her ability to do magic in Alt!EF soon enough?

I doubt it, actually. They need a reason why she wouldn't be able to blast Lady Tremaine into dust, or turn her into a statue like she did that mermaid.

[Kktjones]

14 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I'm glad Regina stayed, though I don't blame Emma for not staying when she's pregnant.

Sorry, I just don't get this. Henry didn't seem to be in any type of peril at all. He was still in search of his own story and decided to look for Cinderella. Why would Emma leave her home, job, parents, and life in Storybrooke to tag along, even if she weren't pregnant? Unless I wasn't paying enough attention and there was some sort of imminent danger surrounding Henry. In which case, why wouldn't Henry just leave with them to get away from it? If anyone's doing the abandoning here, it's Henry.  

Edited October 19, 2017 by Kktjones

[Kktjones]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

Is Emma/A&E implying that a married couple aren't a family until they have a child??!

That's what it sounded like to me. Just no.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Kktjones

[Shanna Marie]

It's funny how they went with the fake drama to make us think something was wrong with Emma when they also had the hands on the belly moment that seemed to be purely for the publicity photos, since it didn't seem like something anyone would have actually done in that moment. So, they both attempted a drama fakeout and planned to tease a pregnancy.

I guess having a big time gap that doesn't show for the characters isn't unheard of on this show. There was no effort to show any difference between the Hook who met Milah and Hook about 8 years later, so I guess it's possible that Hook and Emma could be eight years older here and be no different. But it should make a difference whether it's eight years after Henry left or only a few months for them. If Emma's pregnant only a few months after Henry left, it's only a few years after they got married, which is a pretty normal timeline from marriage to kids. That's enough time to be settled in the marriage. In their case, they'd know that the happy endings seemed to be sticking and they weren't likely to be fighting any more Final Battles. If it's been eight years, they've been married more than ten years, and Emma's in her 40s. Pregnancy at this point means something different. Most couples who marry in their 30s and want kids are probably not going to wait ten years. Have they been trying unsuccessfully for a while? Have there been miscarriages, and now this looks like it might be a successful pregnancy? It's still fairly high-risk at that age. That would explain some of the drama, Hook wanting Emma to stay back and rest, being worried about telling Henry. 

Though Henry didn't seem at all worried or bothered. It didn't affect his plans. He was more like, "That's nice, Mom, but I may have a chance at working my way into this version of the Cinderella story."

[CheshireCat]

6 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I think you're a bit confused there, because he said their stories split after the curse but then you're talking like the daughter has to have existed by the time the curse was cast. There were 30 years between when the curse was/wasn't cast and when the wish was made in which it could have happened. It could even have happened after Emma first met Old Hook, since men remain fertile in old age.

I assumed that the daughter existed before the curse because fake Hook said that when the curse was cast in real Hook's realm, he (real Hook) found love while the lack of a curse brought him (fake Hook) heartbreak and misery. That's why I assumed that the daughter existed before the (lack of a) curse and that the lack of a curse caused fake Hook to lose the daughter (and possibly the mother (and I really hope that it's not Milah!))

Edited October 19, 2017 by CheshireCat

[Rumsy4]

Their histories diverged only from the point where the Curse was cast. So, WHook could only have had a child post-Curse in the Original Timeline. It's unclear whether he had the child after he met Princess Emma in his world, or if the daughter was also a product of the Wish World. The latter case is pretty ridiculous, because it means Genie magic not only made copies of people who existed in the Prime Universe, but could create whole new beings with no need for a template. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Rumsy4

[CheshireCat]

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Their histories diverged only from the point where the Curse was cast. So, WHook could only have had a child post-Curse in the Original Timeline. It's unclear whether he had the child after he met Princess Emma in his world, or if the daughter was also a product of the Wish World. The latter case is pretty ridiculous, because it means Genie magic not only made copies of people who existed in the Prime Universe, but could create whole new beings with no need for a template. 

That's why I'm confused because I reached the same conclusion on that point, that the child could only have been conceived after their stories weren't the same anymore. So, after the curse was cast/not cast. But at the same time, it didn't sound like the child was misery and heartbreak for fake Hook, but the opposite, so he would have to have found love and happiness first after the casting of the curse and then the heartbreak would have come later. That doesn't add up with Hook finding what sounded like only misery and heartbreak after the curse casting. That's why it confused me as I think that they're contradicting statements. But it's not really the first time they've done it, so I'm not going to obsess over it. ;-)

Edited October 19, 2017 by CheshireCat