S02.E01: Chapter Fourteen: A Kiss Before Dying

[MarkHB]

Quote

As Fred’s life hangs in the balance following the shooting at Pop’s diner, Archie struggles with the emotional aftermath of what he witnessed. Meanwhile, as Veronica steps out of her comfort zone to support Archie, she learns that her father Hiram has arrived to Riverdale earlier than expected. Elsewhere, at Pop’s diner, Pop Tate recounts the chilling details of the shooting, which leaves Jughead and Betty questioning the gunman’s true motives. Lastly, after running into Cheryl at the hospital, Betty and Kevin are surprised to learn about the fire at Thornhill.

[WhosThatGirl]

You guys I’m so excited! I’ve been waiting for this to return and yes I’ve expressed how apprehensive I am about this new season based on things I’ve heard.. I’m still excited. I feel like I’ve been waiting forever. 

 

Okay those flash forwards that never was was so sad.  And the flash of death waiting for you being ready.. no.

 

That moment with the core four at the hospital was so good, I’m kind of afraid for what the future holds.

 

My guess is was we  going to see some future PTSD regarding Archie and the shooting/shooter. Obviously something else happened after he shot Fred.but then it was just that he didn’t react fast enough for the shooter.

 

Also damn Alice Cooper.. the situation with the Southside

Just happened like 24 hours ago.. so yeah. But apparently everyone is all judging the Southside, even Kevin in his scene with Betty. I get that he’s jilted by the whole Joaquin thing but it’s making me like him less.

 

Also kind of nice to see Vachie as a couple. I feel like this is the first episode we saw a dynamic. 

 

I love Cheryl just walking though the hospital all “a fire burned down my house but look at me.. flawless”. Also sorry to tell ya Cheryl Fred being shot trumps your burning house. 

 

Bughead continues to give me feelings  that motorcycle scene was cute. But the scene in the diner broke me. Plus.. wow... Betty is kind of changing her tune? Like days before she was writing articles about how the serpents weren’t evil and now she’s saying they are? I get her being scared but.. I don’t know. It feels like we’re hitting reset on a lot of characters feelings and opinions for this new season. 

 

Also.. I’m surprised that Veronica didn’t need much convincing on believing her mother set up the hit. I thought she would need a little more time to think that possibility. 

 

That moment With Cheryl/Fred and Archie was strange. I hope this isn’t a thing where Cheryl gets an inappropriate crush on Fred or something . No. Ew.

 

Yay.. Fred wakes up!  

Poor Jughead is now a serpent. Ugh. Down the rabbit hole.

and Veronica looks like she’s getting an actual storyline this season. 

Wait.. what? So the person who shot Fred was also after Miss Grundy? Huh? 

[Demian]

What was up with the Rosemary's Baby music at the end, there?

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, Demian said:

What was up with the Rosemary's Baby music at the end, there?

I legit thought they were going to pay anyway and show her with a pregnant belly. But no. It was kind of strange.

[Advance35]

Well interesting that Betty was the one that Archie called first.  I have a suspicious nature so that definitely made me raise my eyebrows BUT I also do know that Betty and Archie have been best friends fro a long time so I'll need to see more before I call foul.   Veronica is pretty sharp so if she is being made a fool of, I don't think it will take her long to catch on.

Having said that, I think she and Archie have a very sweet chemistry.  She's more mature than Archie in a lot of ways but he still manages to come across as more world weary to her privileged/sheltered Princess.  I'm going to be interested in seeing if it is purely because of what was going on with Fred or if that's how Archie and Veronica come across by their nature.

Archie has an awesome body.  I am SUPER shallow so I have no trouble admitting that if I were with a guy that looked like Archie, you would never be able to pull me off him.  I have a weakness for nice abs.

I also think that little talk between Veronica and Hermione is foreshadowing.  Veronica has had free reign since she's been on the show, flashing tude anywhere she pleases, including at her mother and I get the feeling that is VERY much going to change.  I think the Lodges are going to be as villainous as the Blossom's, they just have better wrapping paper.

I think I am  going to like Hiram and Hermione.  They were so sleekly sinister when Veronica came home.  I've seen the Hiram actor in various projects but he wasn't ever a villainous character, I'm interested in seeing how his character evolves.

Speaking of Blossoms, Cheryl has certainly flipped her lid.  She is NOT well.  And her putting the strangulation on her Mother's air supply says a LOT.

I was horrified when we saw that BOY eating pedophile Mrs. Grundy but was jaw dropped when she was murdered.  Yikes.

Not a bad premier.

[RandomWatcher]

Cheryl is batshit crazy

Does Luke Perry have it written in his contract that he has to have a weird coma dream for his roles?

Hi Ms. Grundy. Bye Ms. Grundy

[Last Time Lord]

Awwwwww shit, my TV crack is back!

So, Archie has PTSD something fierce.

[tennisgurl]

"Wow, I am just so sad that Ms. Grundy is dead!"-said no one ever. 

[Demian]

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I legit thought they were going to pay anyway and show her with a pregnant belly.

Hee!  Archie is Satan.

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Thought it was odd that the hospital seemed to exist in a different era with the doctor wearing the high collared shirt and the nurses wearing skirts and hats.

I liked it as a stylistic choice -- that Riverdale still has one foot firmly planted in the comic book's 1940s past. 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

"Wow, I am just so sad that Ms. Grundy is dead!"-said no one ever. 

Yeah.. no one cares and I can’t really

think of anyone who cares enough to kill her and try to kill Fred. It doesn’t add up and I hope the outcome of this mystery isn’t disappointing. Because does anyone care about Miss Grundy?

Also I guess Molly is going to be back on the show for a while.

[SeanC]

Cheryl rocks my world.

Veronica’s family scenes are all being filmed/written like it’s a mafia movie now.  My favourite over the top touch is Hermione using the Latin formulation of the Catholic mass, even though that hasn’t been used in church since Vatican II.

Also, Veronica’s bon mot/bonbon pun falls short on the sophisticate scale because she pronounced the t.

[Affogato]

12 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

Well interesting that Betty was the one that Archie called first.  I have a suspicious nature so that definitely made me raise my eyebrows BUT I also do know that Betty and Archie have been best friends fro a long time so I'll need to see more before I call foul.   Veronica is pretty sharp so if she is being made a fool of, I don't think it will take her long to catch on.

 

Veronica's new, Betty and Jughead both know Archie's father  and he probably also knows Betty can get in contact with Jughead, who really was close to Archie's father and lived with them for a while.

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, RogerDodger said:

It seems weird that Ringwald was such a big star back in the day, yet doesn't merit a "special guest star" title or even the "and" credit in the opening.    

Right? I would think she would too but whatever, imho she doesn’t add much to this show. 

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah.. no one cares and I can’t really

think of anyone who cares enough to kill her and try to kill Fred. It doesn’t add up and I hope the outcome of this mystery isn’t disappointing. Because does anyone care about Miss Grundy?

Also I guess Molly is going to be back on the show for a while.

It could conceivably be somebody trying to throw people off their trail by killing additional people to thus suggest other possible motives.

[Affogato]

2 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

It seems weird that Ringwald was such a big star back in the day, yet doesn't merit a "special guest star" title or even the "and" credit in the opening.    

They didn't want everyone to know she was showing up?

[Last Time Lord]

There were so many good lines in this like Alice calling Jughead Snake Pliskin, Jughead's "Hell yeah!" reaction when Pops offered food to him and Betty, Hiram's "So disrespectful" when Hermoinie told him that Veronica drank his Crystal.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, Affogato said:

They didn't want everyone to know she was showing up?

She was in the promos that have been going on for the whole. At least. The wedding scene was in a promo I saw a long time ago. So..

[Affogato]

6 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

 

think of anyone who cares enough to kill her and try to kill Fred. It doesn’t add up and I hope the outcome of this mystery isn’t disappointing. Because does anyone care about Miss Grundy?

 

Archie says something about people killing people who are close to him. My mind jumps to the Lodge's and their dealings immediately, but I don't know why they would go for Grundy. 

[tennisgurl]

This show is still so very crazy and I love it so much. Its utterly ridiculous and knows it and thats why its amazing. 

Cheryl is so deeply crazy, but her mom really was awful, and I can really appreciate how she can coordinate her white and red outfits so well after a suicide attempt and her house burning down over the course of about a day. 

I love that in the Riverdale hospital, orderlies and nurses still dress like its the 40s. It adds to the weird, timeless atmosphere of Riverdale?

The Lodge parents are scary, and are getting scarier and scarier. Also, I thought that the Coopers came off a little better than usual this week. I mean, still snobby and judgmental, but they at least were being somewhat supportive by coming to the hospital and checking up on Archie a little bit. Or maybe they just look better next to the increasingly intense Lodges. 

I was actually into Archie/Veronica this week, and I generally liked and felt for Archie here. The group hug with the main four kids was sweet. 

[Jeddah]

I’ve missed this crazy show. I’m glad Fred’s okay! I’m still worried about Nana Rose though!

How awkward was Jughead telling Pop to lighten up, while Pop was literally mopping up blood after a shooting? And then he had Pop make him a burger. Ew. Veronica seemed out of character. I didn’t feel like we saw much of Betty. Kevin cracked me up talking about Joaquin. And so did the big lipstick mark on Fred’s forehead after Cheryl kissed him.

I feel bad because I thought, “Ugh, not Miss Grundy again.” And then, yikes.

[Affogato]

2 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

She was in the promos that have been going on for the whole. At least. The wedding scene was in a promo I saw a long time ago. So..

Yeah, but you have to shoot the show separate from the promos. 

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Archie says something about people killing people who are close to him. My mind jumps to the Lodge's and their dealings immediately, but I don't know why they would go for Grundy. 

Yeah.. I think it’s the Lodges as well. But Grundy doesn’t add up, unless they are trying to do randoms to throw people off or maybe they are sending a message to the Andrews? Grundy isn’t random.. and they had to find her to do the killing.  So who knows.

[Affogato]

Okay, does Cheryl think she saved Fred, because that is what she said? 

If her house burned down where did she get the shiny white outfit?

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, Affogato said:

Okay, does Cheryl think she saved Fred, because that is what she said? 

If her house burned down where did she get the shiny white outfit?

I’m worried that they plan on building some inappropriate crush with her on Fred. No idea where she got that white outfit. But love her batcrazy attitude walking though the hospital.

[opus]

Where was Grundy? Did they say Greendale?

[Bort]

I groaned when Miss Grundy showed up, and up to her old tricks. And then cheered when she got whacked. Haha. 

[Last Time Lord]

2 minutes ago, opus said:

Where was Grundy? Did they say Greendale?

I believe so. Think they said on the other side of Sweetwater River.

[tennisgurl]

Isn't Greendale the town where Sabrina the Teenaged Witch lived?!?! *does 90s nostalgia happy dance* 

[jay741982]

Is Greendale where Sabrina came from in the comics?

[Jeddah]

7 minutes ago, Affogato said:

 

If her house burned down where did she get the shiny white outfit?

Isn't it what she was wearing when she burned the house down?

[SeanC]

Just now, tennisgurl said:

Isn't Greendale the town where Sabrina the Teenaged Witch lived?!?! *does 90s nostalgia happy dance* 

Correct.

[jay741982]

Just now, tennisgurl said:

Isn't Greendale the town where Sabrina the Teenaged Witch lived?!?! *does 90s nostalgia happy dance* 

Since a Darker Sabrina spin-off is in the works I wouldn't be surprised if Sabrina shows up at some point this season

[Last Time Lord]

2 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Since a Darker Sabrina spin-off is in the works I wouldn't be surprised if Sabrina shows up at some point this season

Why am I just learning about this, now?!?

[Affogato]

Just now, Last Time Lord said:

I believe so. Think they said on the other side of Sweetwater River.

Isn't that Sabrina's town? Grundy was, by the way, an idiot for not moving farther away. 

It seemed as if a lot changed in everyone's attitude very fast, like an hour or two after the shooting fast. 

This is the first show where I felt Veronica was really presented as Latina. Or as near as I can remember, Catholic, and that was some heavy duty Catholic. Also her mother seemed to switch from a cool mom who tried to be on Veronica's side, but who liked being rich, to a totally different person. It's like a daylight lamp is turned on and you see colors differently, apparently Hiram brings his own dark lamp with him.

Just now, Last Time Lord said:

Why am I just learning about this, now?!?

I don't know.

[sashabear21]

Hooray! Donna Martin graduates...I mean Fred Andrews lives! That scene with Veronica and her parents was straight up creepy.  Uh-oh, looks like Jughead might have gotten in a little too deep with the serpents.  Wonder what's in store with that storyline as that guy (I don't know the character's name, but he looks like drunk Treat Williams with a mullet) seems determined to bring Jughead into the fold.  Loved Alice Cooper's comments when she thought Jughead had "defiled" Betty in a trailer.  Archie, sweetie, a broken hand and a baseball bat is not going to scare anyone, don't ask me how I know this.  Cheryl Blossom is batshit, and I'm here for it! 

[Affogato]

8 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Isn't it what she was wearing when she burned the house down?

How do you stay clean in a fire? Does she scotchgard herself?

[tennisgurl]

12 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Since a Darker Sabrina spin-off is in the works I wouldn't be surprised if Sabrina shows up at some point this season

This time Salem the cat is Sabrina's imaginary friend that represents her guilt over a dark past. 

[Jeddah]

23 minutes ago, Affogato said:

How do you stay clean in a fire? Does she scotchgard herself?

She must use whatever the doctor used. He removed a bullet from Fred, and his retro doctor uniform was still clean.

[Bort]

31 minutes ago, sashabear21 said:

Loved Alice Cooper's comments when she thought Jughead had "defiled" Betty in a trailer.

I loved how Betty purposely baited her mother with the information that she and Jughead went to the trailer.

[Lady Calypso]

So, I really got sketched by Hermione near the end of last season and apparently, she turned it up all the way this episode. She was downright creepy with Veronica, but especially with Hiram in their last scene. The Lodges are definitely going to give the Blossoms a run for their money. Who knew the Coopers would look like saints compared to the other two families? 

I thought this was an excellent Archie episode. KJ Apa really stepped it up from last season. I was very moved by Archie's various emotions throughout the episode. I don't mind that he called Betty first; they've been best friends for a long time. He only just started a relationship with Veronica, and him and Jughead haven't been as close.

Man, Cheryl has lost it. She really went into it with her mother in that hospital room. Cheryl just sketches me out. I like her, but her character is so bizarre. The kiss of life to Fred was just odd.

Not a whole lot of Jughead and Betty, but they did get to talk a little about the Serpents and how Betty feels about Jughead being associated with them. But whether she likes it or not, I don't think Jughead can get rid of them if he tried. 

I really found myself digging the retro atmosphere. 

Hi, Josie! Bye, Josie! Oh, and hi New Reggie!

Ultimately, a really good episode for Archie. I'm guessing we'll see his PTSD for a while, and his mom may or may not stick around. She might very well disappear at the beginning of the next episode, but at least we got verbal and visual confirmation that she is around for the beginning of Fred's recovery. I knew he wasn't going to die, either, but it looks like we have this Angel of Death killing people, or trying to. We don't know if this Angel of Death was actually trying to murder Fred and just failed, or if he intentionally didn't finish the job, even with Pop and Archie there, because he wanted to send a message.

However, his intentions with Ms. Grundy were very, very clear. I'm laughing because there's been this fear that Ms. Grundy would somehow be back in Archie's life this season, wrecking havoc. Nope, turns out she was just there to tease the audience, show that she's most definitely a sexual predator, and then promptly murdered. I guess the Angel of Death did us all a favour, here! Thanks, Green Eyes! 

Also, the only connection I have until the Angel's next victim is that Fred and Ms. Grundy are connected to Archie. So until that's debunked, I'm just going to blame Archie. Man, who did a sixteen year old kid piss off to start a murder spree? 

[phoenics]

I'm so glad this show is back!  Just mad it conflicts with Empire so i have to record and watch afterwards.  But man!!  SO GOOD!  I was completely spoiler free except for a bit of casting news, and the lack of Luke Perry news had me super worried they were gonna kill him off!  I was on pins and needles the ENTIRE ep and so worried!  I kept thinking they'd off him at the very end, but nope - they offed Ms. Grundy instead!! Hahahaha!  I'm not sorry she's dead - she's creepy and a sexual predator.

Who else knew that Archie was involved with Ms. Grundy?  Besides Betty/Jug?  No other adults knew, right?  What could prompt a grown man to kill people Archie knows or had close relations with?  Does this mean Ronnie is in danger?  Betty?  Jug?  Or is the Archie angle just something to throw folks off the scent?  I kinda feel like that isn't it - why kill people in a clear pattern that just means cops will pay closer attention - if the perp wanted to hide his motive, then letting the Fred shooting look like a robbery would have been the smartest bet.  But instead the killer didn't take any money from Pop's (so it clearly wasn't a robbery) and then went to kill Ms. Grundy.  Clearly this killer wants to send a message.  But why?  What could Archie - or his mom, dad, someone - have done to lead to this?

And remind me - does anyone else but batshit crazy Cheryl and her mom know that her dad killed his own son and NOT Jug's dad?  We gotta get Jug's dad out of jail!

The Lodges creeped me out - I really liked Hermione last season but this season the creepy is too much and now I don't like how she's acting.  I can't tell if it's a red herring or if she's really shady - but the creepy Stepford-family vibes they gave off tonight with Hermione and Hiram ... creepy.  It's probably some sort of red herring like last season with Betty's parents but still... 

So glad Fred is okay.  Whew!

Edited October 12, 2017 by phoenics

[WhosThatGirl]

Fred knew about Grundy and so

did Alice. I think Veronica knew too.

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, RandomWatcher said:

Does Luke Perry have it written in his contract that he has to have a weird coma dream for his roles?

Hi Ms. Grundy. Bye Ms. Grundy

Damn, was that a flashback to Dylan's coma dream or what?

I groaned so hard when I saw Ms. Grundy, and then cheered when she got offed.

[jewel21]

Don't killers usually stick with the same M.O.? Fred was shot and Grundy was strangled, right? It's just weird that he didn't just shoot her.

Cheryl is mad crazy. Chick freaks me out and in real life I'd be walking on the other side of the street every time she walked past, but as a TV viewer, I find her whole story line fascinating. I can't wait to see what she'll do next.

Hermione and Hiram are super shady. I'm actually a little worried for Veronica.

[Last Time Lord]

4 minutes ago, jewel21 said:

Don't killers usually stick with the same M.O.? Fred was shot and Grundy was strangled, right? It's just weird that he didn't just shoot her.

 

Pretty sure the killer used a blase of some sort. It looked like she was bleeding from the neck.

[memememe76]

21 minutes ago, phoenics said:

 

Who else knew that Archie was involved with Ms. Grundy?  Besides Betty/Jug?  No other adults knew, right?  What could prompt a grown man to kill people Archie knows or had close relations with?  Does this mean Ronnie is in danger?  Betty?  Jug?  Or is the Archie angle just something to throw folks off the scent?  I kinda feel like that isn't it - why kill people in a clear pattern that just means cops will pay closer attention - if the perp wanted to hide his motive, then letting the Fred shooting look like a robbery would have been the smartest bet.  But instead the killer didn't take any money from Pop's (so it clearly wasn't a robbery) and then went to kill Ms. Grundy.  Clearly this killer wants to send a message.  But why?  What could Archie - or his mom, dad, someone - have done to lead to this?

Archie's relationship with Ms. Grundy was uncovered at Jughead's birthday party during that Truth or Dare game, and probably spread throughout the school the next day.

Is Uncle Oscar part of the comics? A brother of Fred has already passed, which is sad. But if they ever do Adult Flashbacks, I would gather he would part of that. Does that mean there are cousins?

The Grundy death has me so confused who the killer could be. Great episode, but looking forward to a more traditional episode. 

[HunterHunted]

16 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

It seems weird that Ringwald was such a big star back in the day, yet doesn't merit a "special guest star" title or even the "and" credit in the opening.    

There are actually SAG AFTRA rules about special guest star, guest star, and "and" credits. It actually has to do with how important the actor's character is to the central storyline. There are other considerations about the number of scenes and lines, but how important the character is to the story is the most important part.

Poor traumatized Archie.

Cheryl is so fucking crazy and maybe magic because I don't know how someone walks away from a fire in an unsmudged dazzling white outfit.

[jewel21]

23 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

Pretty sure the killer used a blase of some sort. It looked like she was bleeding from the neck.

Ooh, I guessed I missed that. Thanks.

[Snookums]

Quote

Awwwwww shit, my TV crack is back!

And it's the good stuff! My husband was in the living room while I was watching:

H: So we're supposed to shriek with laughter about this, right?
Me: You bet!

H: If you get me hooked on this damn thing...

Me: LOOK it's Molly Ringwald!

Hee hee.

So, yes, jumping right in the deep end with dramatic VOs and Serpents and Mrs. Cooper just turning it up to eleven at breakfast--every single one of her lines was gold-plated.  "If that's Snake Plisskin block him!" "Mom, it's Archie." "BLOCK HIM TOO!" Thank God the writers know how to use Madchen Amick.

You'd think Pops being a crime scene and all, they'd rope it off. Or at least lock the door until he got the blood puddle mopped up.  Interesting that Pops was an accusatory figure in two of Fred's dreams (the one in the diner and the wedding, where he was officiating.) Does Pops know something, perchance? 

So I guess we don't have to speculate about Mrs. Lodge being the Big Bad; seems more along the lines of dastardly duo but she's definitely not the innocent she played at being in S1. Who was the actor playing Hiram? 

Can somebody please change that bloody, soggy cast on Archie's hand? It probably smells like a chum bucket mixed with a dumpster by now.

Nice to see everybody in Riverdale hanging at the hospital eating Pops takeout. I wish Josie and the 'cats had sung something.

Hey Grundy! See ya, Grundy! I'm intrigued by this new mystery. Also, wondering what the possible connection could be between Fred and Grundy. Unless the guy's a professional hitter and decided to cross two unrelated jobs off his list in one day, what the hell is Archie doing as the nexus of dark powers of evil?

And finally, Cheryl! Who interestingly enough didn't try to stage anything about the TRAGIC FIRE amongst her peers; whether that was because of Fred or because she doesn't want anybody looking into the use of accelerants remains to be seen. Her icy demeanor with her mom and the whole "just dropped by to be The Spookiest Chick You Know And Mack On Your Dad A Bit" thing with Fred was vintage Cheryl.

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Isn't it what she was wearing when she burned the house down?

No, she had on a black sweater and plaid skirt. Of course she set her present outfit aside ahead of time! She's not a savage, for heaven's sake.

[SeanC]

10 minutes ago, Snookums said:

Who was the actor playing Hiram? 

Mark Consuelos (Mr. Kelly Ripa).