GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[TeeVee329]

37 minutes ago, Bishop said:

Kevin ultimately popped the question to Lucy, and she and Kevin were going to be married, but Kevin found out about a lie Lucy was keeping from him, and he called off the wedding.  When he had a chance to cool down, he went to go find Lucy  and apologize, and guess where she was?  In bed with Scott Baldwin!

FWIW, the lie was part of a "Port Charles" storyline (I actually posted the clip of Kevin confronting Lucy about it in the "Port Charles" thread).  Lucy and Kevin's called-off wedding was a double wedding with Mac and Felicia that crossed over both shows.  And the sleeping with Scotty (Scotty and Lucy got together after this, Kevin had a new romance with Eve) didn't happen, like, the next day, it was a few weeks later, during some shenanigans about Serena, though I might be remembering wrong.

In simplest terms, IMO, Lucy and Kevin were a classic case of opposites attract while Lucy and Scotty were always closer in temperament.

Edited August 11, 2016 by TeeVee329

[Harmony233]

4 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

FWIW, the lie was part of a "Port Charles" storyline (I actually posted the clip of Kevin confronting Lucy about it in the "Port Charles" thread).  Lucy and Kevin's called-off wedding was a double wedding with Mac and Felicia that crossed over both shows.  And the sleeping with Scotty (Scotty and Lucy got together after this, Kevin had a new romance with Eve) didn't happen, like, the next day, it was a few weeks later, during some shenanigans about Serena, though I might be remembering wrong.

In simplest terms, IMO, Lucy and Kevin were a classic case of opposites attract while Lucy and Scotty were always closer in temperament.

Yeah Lucy caused Serena's accident.Scott blamed Eve who was babysitting Serena but Lucy felt threatened bye e and her realtionship with Serena.Anyways when Scotty found out Lucy was responsible for the accident which left Serena temp blind he was furious with Lucy for awhile.For some reason they ended up in Florida during a hurricane that's when they slept together.

scotty and lucys early realtionship consisted of friends with benefits type of a realtionship they schemed and fought.Lucy married Alan while Scotty hooked up with Tracy.Lucy and Scotty had an affair.Lucy plotted to get pregnant with alans baby but it was really scottys she miscarried the baby.Alan divorced her got back with Monica.Lucy and Scotty got back together.Lucy left town to try to make it in New York.Scotty went to Las Vegas with Dominquie married her fell in love with her.Lucy came back to town.Dominquie found out she was dying and Lucy discovered it first but kept quiet.Lucy and Dominquie bonded.Dominquie asked Lucy to carry her and scottys baby.Dominquie died after hearing the baby's heartbeat.Serena was born but Scotty left town with her after she was kidnapped for dominquies money she left them.

[LexieLily]

Thanks, Bishop and TeeVee329! So are you guys opposed to the budding Kevin/Laura romance?

[TeeVee329]

Not really.  While I historically have loved Lucy and Kevin and they'd be my OTP if the lights ever went out in Port Charles, I'm enjoying the budding romance with Kevin and Laura.  It's sweet and mature and it's a change of pace partner-wise for both of them, particularly Laura.  As long as they don't crap on Kevin's long history with Lucy (i.e. no "I've never loved any woman before you, Laura!" stuff), I'm good to go.  And luckily, I also enjoy Lucy with Scotty.

[Ambrosefolly]

5 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Thanks, Bishop and TeeVee329! So are you guys opposed to the budding Kevin/Laura romance?

I am. I really hate what FV did to Lucy.

[LexieLily]

2 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Not really.  While I historically have loved Lucy and Kevin and they'd be my OTP if the lights ever went out in Port Charles, I'm enjoying the budding romance with Kevin and Laura.  It's sweet and mature and it's a change of pace partner-wise for both of them, particularly Laura.  As long as they don't crap on Kevin's long history with Lucy (i.e. no "I've never loved any woman before you, Laura!" stuff), I'm good to go.  And luckily, I also enjoy Lucy with Scotty.

Laura has her own long history with Luke, so I'd think they'd have to treat both of their pasts equally. But what I think the show should do and what is actually does doesn't always intercept...

[Lillybee]

I am beginning to think that Laura is a footnote to Luke's history, given the way she has been written forever.

[jsbt]

I think Kevin and Laura are nice people and talented actors put on the path of what would be a tremendously boring romance that allows Frank to burn off Genie's guarantee. I'm still all about Kevin and Lucy. Lucy and Scott has never worked much for me romantically, as I really came in on their relationship after both had 'reformed' in the mid-1990s. Lynn and Kin have great chemistry playing schemers in cahoots and I enjoy them in that capacity or in some fling, but do I buy into them as some major romance today? No, I think both characters moved beyond that. And I just don't see much of a spark between Kevin and Laura. I watch their scenes, I try to give it a chance. It just seems like nothing much.

Granted I haven't watched much lately, but I have never seen them actually talk much about why they like each other, how they saw each other back when they both lived in PC together for years with different spouses, how they view each other today and how they connect. I don't see it. It feels like just throwing two random non-offensive people together.

And frankly I think both characters, especially Laura, deserve major stories with talented partners tailored to them. Kevin already has Lucy. Laura has whoever Frank feels like putting her with, namely budget-conscious non-contract player Kevin.

Edited August 11, 2016 by jsbt

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

And fuck RC for turning Nik into such a garbage person that fuckin Ava Jerome sees him as a soulmate.

Was RC the one who decided that Nikolas should jump on top of Toonces? I seriously can't remember, only that it happened like five minutes after Emily's rape. Regardless, as questionable as Ava's morality is, I'm pretty sure Dikolas knew that Britt was passing his sister's kid off as her own and didn't say anything because of reasons. Someone with a better memory can correct me if that's wrong. It isn't like Nik deserves "someone better", and at least Ava isn't engaged to his brother.

[TeeVee329]

Is Toonces SWSNBN?  Because yeah, that was Guza. 

Nikolas has been garbage for quite a while, IMO.  The affair with Liz, his gross whatever with Brook Lynn, his aggressive pursuit of Liz when he first returned under Ron's pen.  It didn't start with Britt. 

[Oracle42]

Nik was a gross, entitled douche in his romantic relationships and the affair with SWSNBN was the absolute nadir of his nastiness. Liz/Nik was a terrible betrayal of his relationship with Lucky but I think what he did to Umily was worse

However, hiring someone to murder a woman that you are sleeping with so you can maintain a financial advantage is a completely different level of trash.

I do think that pre-RC, Nik would've been too good for a woman who shot someone in the stomach and left her to bleed out and who followed that up by plotting to kill the guy she framed for that murder.  Now being pre-meditated murderous assholes is just part of their "connection" 

4 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I'm pretty sure Dikolas knew that Britt was passing his sister's kid off as her own and didn't say anything because of reasons.

I do not believe he was aware of Ben's maternity until Liz told everyone at their engagement party

Edited August 11, 2016 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

Hmm, doesn't exactly match Sonny talking about how he used to hang at gay clubs or whatever it was:

Lois: Look, you gotta know that Sonny really really cares about you. He's probably never known a woman quite like you and that probably makes him feel like he doesn't know how to handle anything. And that probably makes him feel insecure and that ticks him off because there's nothing worse for a guy like Sonny than to feel insecure.

Brenda: What do you mean, a woman like me?

Lois: You're not like a lot of the girls Sonny knew in Bensonhurst, that's all. 

Brenda: Well, you and I aren't that different Lois. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Lois: Babe, why do you think that I left, huh? I mean, I love the place, it's my roots, but the guys, they're raised in a different century. I mean, the men are in charge, and it's the woman's job to live on their every word and worship and adore them all the while wearing four inch stilettos and impossibly short skirts, which, by the way, is the one aspect you seem to have down pat.

Brenda: Yeah well that's because I dress the way I want and Sonny knows that I am not gonna be some trophy girlfriend for him, I have made that very clear.

Lois: Absolutely! You just gotta give him a little time to adjust, okay? He's been living with this chauvinist stuff for years. You ain't gonna change his spots overnight.

[Bishop]

On 8/10/2016 at 9:24 PM, LexieLily said:

Thanks, Bishop and TeeVee329! So are you guys opposed to the budding Kevin/Laura romance?

I love the budding romance between Kevin and Laura.

On 8/10/2016 at 9:30 PM, Ambrosefolly said:

I am. I really hate what FV did to Lucy.

Agreed.  He really dialed up the crazy with her.  Lucy was also a bit off-center, but FV and RC really went "dials-to-the-right" with her.  It was unnecessary, and even the way she cheated on Kevin with Scotty was dumb.  Regardless, I'm happy to see Kevin in a new romance, and I think Lucy and Scotty do work better together, and their temperaments work better too.

[Chairperson Meow]

18 hours ago, ulkis said:

 

Hmm, doesn't exactly match Sonny talking about how he used to hang at gay clubs or whatever it was:

Lois: Look, you gotta know that Sonny really really cares about you. He's probably never known a woman quite like you and that probably makes him feel like he doesn't know how to handle anything. And that probably makes him feel insecure and that ticks him off because there's nothing worse for a guy like Sonny than to feel insecure.

Brenda: What do you mean, a woman like me?

Lois: You're not like a lot of the girls Sonny knew in Bensonhurst, that's all. 

Brenda: Well, you and I aren't that different Lois. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Lois: Babe, why do you think that I left, huh? I mean, I love the place, it's my roots, but the guys, they're raised in a different century. I mean, the men are in charge, and it's the woman's job to live on their every word and worship and adore them all the while wearing four inch stilettos and impossibly short skirts, which, by the way, is the one aspect you seem to have down pat.

Brenda: Yeah well that's because I dress the way I want and Sonny knows that I am not gonna be some trophy girlfriend for him, I have made that very clear.

Lois: Absolutely! You just gotta give him a little time to adjust, okay? He's been living with this chauvinist stuff for years. You ain't gonna change his spots overnight.

Yes.  This screams Sonny partied with "the gays".  And the sky is raining skittles. Watch out.  What I'd believe is Sonny met some gay people when he worked in/owned clubs.  Sonny met a stripper or dancer or two that were transgender.  Sonny wandered into a local drag night and had a fling with someone there. Maybe that's how Sonny partied with gay people. Because unless Sonny was in the closet too, no one in Bensonhurst was coming out to his murdering mobster self.  But a Sonny in the closet makes a lot of sense, looking back at his history.  Shrug.

[Oracle42]

A friend of mine suggested Sonny's work with AIDS charities as a much better (and more sympathetic) means for Sonny to have come into contact with/learn acceptance of Teh Gays, as opposed to 1970s mob controlled Brooklyn.

These writers don't even try

[dubbel zout]

The only reason Sonny got involved with AIDS charities is because of Stone and Robin, two people he had a personal connection with. If they hadn't gotten sick, he wouldn't have given a rat's ass. It's better than nothing, of course, and it's how a lot people get involved with causes, but Sonny is always looking out for Sonny. It doesn't hurt that he can proclaim himself a major philanthropist.

[Oracle42]

But personal interactions are how most people get past prejudices. It's not so much about Sonny being a good man (he isn't) it's  more about a more realistic means for accepting Krisrina than that ridiculous line about Sinny frequenting gay clubs in Brooklyn, in the 70s with two girls from a very religious family

[dubbel zout]

I wish it had been Morgan or Michael who'd been gay rather than Kristina. That would be a test of empathy for Sonny. He's accepted Lucas, but Lucas is a relative by marriage, and they have little interaction the way it is. A son of his being gay, though? Let's see him walk the walk there.

[Tiger]

18 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I wish it had been Morgan or Michael who'd been gay rather than Kristina. That would be a test of empathy for Sonny. He's accepted Lucas, but Lucas is a relative by marriage, and they have little interaction the way it is. A son of his being gay, though? Let's see him walk the walk there.

Remember Carly's face when Freakco told her Jewelz was screwing Mordawg? 

[Chairperson Meow]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I wish it had been Morgan or Michael who'd been gay rather than Kristina. That would be a test of empathy for Sonny. He's accepted Lucas, but Lucas is a relative by marriage, and they have little interaction the way it is. A son of his being gay, though? Let's see him walk the walk there.

I would love if Morgan was gay for many reasons.  Selfishly, there would be Dill and Kiki again. Also, the reactions from Sonny/Carly.  Gold.  

[HeatLifer]

Sometimes I remember how this show screwed Tony Jones and I'm like, grrrrrrrr.

[Harmony233]

24 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Sometimes I remember how this show screwed Tony Jones and I'm like, grrrrrrrr.

Anytime I watch old stuff and see Tony that always depresses me.

Ive actually been on an PC kick lately and I'm still baffled at why Serena has never been brought on then again maybe it's better might ruin my memories I certainly don't want her to be an entitled brat like Kristina and Kiki are sometimes.

[ulkis]

5 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Sometimes I remember how this show screwed Tony Jones and I'm like, grrrrrrrr.

Tony is my exhibit A for why you can't take good guys and turn them into shits. You can't walk that back. Although, even if that story hadn't happed, Tony probably would have faded away anyway. But still, I agree.

[ulkis]

Why is the best scene of 2015 not on youtube darn it:

Dante: If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you, free of charge. Do you understand these rights as I've explained them to you?

Morgan: This is such bull, Dante.

Dante: Yes or no?

Morgan: Yeah.

Kiki: Yes, I understand.

Dante: You know what, Morgan? You might want to pay extra special attention to the part where it says you keep your mouth shut. I'm in possession of evidence that backs up Michael's claim that you two drugged him. In the state of New York, that's second-degree assault. It's a class "D" felony. Do you understand how much trouble you guys are in?

Kiki: Yes. We understand.

Morgan: Let me ask you something. What about, uh -- what about innocent till proven guilty?

Dante: Morgan, if we can prove that you faked a kidnapping, you get charged and tried. If you're found guilty, you go away for a very long time. See, unfortunately, in the real world, Morgan, you can't whine your way out of the consequences. Get up, let's go. Let's go.

[HeatLifer]

52 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Tony is my exhibit A for why you can't take good guys and turn them into shits. You can't walk that back. Although, even if that story hadn't happed, Tony probably would have faded away anyway. But still, I agree.

Well, that AND no character ever wins or is right against Carly/Jason/Sonny. To this day, it STILL makes me laugh that a large part of the audience really believed Jason was Michael's father. Carly legit walked in, crying (for the billionth time), that "AJ bad! Tony bad! Be my baby's father!" and everyone was like, "Yes, this makes sense. Jason is his father!" LIKE WHAT, COME AGAIN!?!?!! 

[cmahorror]

A cute scene with Mac, Patrick and Robin while getting this ready for Maxie's non-wedding to Spinelli. I love Mac strangling the bird seed bag with the ribbon - you can practically see him visualizing it being Spinelli's head.

 

 

Patrick (trying to get Mac to calm down): Ok, hey, Mac, you know what, look at Robin and I. I mean, you thought I was wrong for her. You wrote me off as a serial womanizer and a heartbreaker. You couldn't stand to be around me. Now look at us. We're in the same room. We're breathing the same air. And I don't feel a threat of violence - in this moment.

Mac (after Patrick leaves): You know, that's one more reason to dislike Spinelli - he makes Patrick look good.

Edited August 13, 2016 by cmahorror

[Tiger]

Patrick, for all his faults, never gleefully conspired to murder a cop!

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, ulkis said:

Dante: Morgan, if we can prove that you faked a kidnapping, you get charged and tried. If you're found guilty, you go away for a very long time. See, unfortunately, in the real world, Morgan, you can't whine your way out of the consequences. Get up, let's go. Let's go.

That ranks right up there for me with Silas calling Morgan and Lauren "adults, allegedly."

[Chairperson Meow]

I'm still looking for the scenes where Michael learned Sonny killed AJ, leading to one of my favorite lines:  (paraphrasing) 

Sonny: Give me the gun.

Michael:  Why?  So you can shoot me in the chest like you did to Dante?  Or kill me like you killed my father? 

I loved Michael then. Chad Duell surprised me.  I didn't think he could pull it off, but he did.  He looked like SK's AJ's son with a bit of SBu's Jason at his best rolled in there.   Literally, the casting was perfect.  If only BM was a secret AJ son instead of Jason, it could be better. Sigh.

[ulkis]

I guess I could do a lot of research and figure this all out but would somebody mind taking a moment to tell me:

#1 - What Franco did re: sexually assaulting/not sexually assaulting Sam?

#2 - And also how he allowed/set up Michael to be raped?

TIA!

When Michael was in prison, Franco told an inmate named Carter to rape him. Later, another headwriter changed it that Franco told said inmate to protect Michael, but the message got mixed up and the man thought Franco meant for him to rape Michael. The re-write was scorned by the audience, so much so that the writer complained in a magazine that the audience didn't have to like it but they had to accept that it was officially what had happened on the show.

Re: Sam, on Sam and Jason's honeymoon Franco drugged them both, locked Jason in a room and Franco set up a camera in there so he could watch what going on in the room with Sam and Franco. Franco undressed Sam, put her naked body on the bed and then covered the camera so Jason wouldn't know what was happening. Sam wound up pregnant and Franco left a message implying he could be the father, so Sam thought she had been raped for about two years until Franco revealed he didn't actually rape her.

Edited August 13, 2016 by ulkis

[HeresTo2016]

Thanks for the answer!! And, wow, what an ass.

[HeatLifer]

2 hours ago, cmahorror said:

A cute scene with Mac, Patrick and Robin while getting this ready for Maxie's non-wedding to Spinelli. 

Mac was HYSTERICAL during that whole non-wedding plot. I was CRYING at stuff he said to Robin, Patrick, Maxie, Spin, Jason. Too good.

My other fave part of that clip you posted that made me LOL:

Robin: He was right about you.

Patrick: Sucka!

[Chairperson Meow]

5 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I guess I could do a lot of research and figure this all out but would somebody mind taking a moment to tell me:

#1 - What Franco did re: sexually assaulting/not sexually assaulting Sam?

#2 - And also how he allowed/set up Michael to be raped?

TIA!

When Michael was in prison, Franco told an inmate named Carter to rape him. Later, another headwriter changed it that Franco told said inmate to protect Michael, but the message got mixed up and the man thought Franco meant for him to rape Michael. The re-write was scorned by the audience, so much so that the writer complained in a magazine that the audience didn't have to like it but they had to accept that it was officially what had happened on the show.

Re: Sam, on Sam and Jason's honeymoon Franco drugged them both, locked Jason in a room and Franco set up a camera in there so he could watch what going on in the room with Sam and Franco. Franco undressed Sam, put her naked body on the bed and then covered the camera so Jason would drive himself crazy wondering what was happening. Sam wound up pregnant and Franco left a message implying he could be the father, so Sam thought she had been raped for about two years until Franco revealed he didn't actually rape her.

But, to be fair, Sonny is also to blame.  I'm a bit fuzzy, so I'm sure you can fill in my blanks.  When Michael went to prison, the judge sentenced him harshly based on Sonny/Carly being his parental figures.  Sonny struck a protection deal with Anthony Zaccara.  When Sonny kidnapped his son, Johnny and almost killed him, Anthony Z called off the protection. This made Michael vulnerable as well.  Jason found out and got himself put in prison to protect Michael.  It was too late though because Michael had already been raped by Carter.  Jason knew something happened, but wasn't sure.  So he murdered Carter. Monica didn't know until Franco's video thing where AJ learned and tried to kill Franco.  He also awesomely lashed out at Carly/Sonny.  Those scenes are still on you tube.  

[ulkis]

By the time Michael went to prison, I don't think anyone brought up Sonny having kidnapped Johnny. I wasn't watching during Lulu/Johnny, didn't Sonny kidnap Johnny because of Michael being in a coma or something like that? I forget why Jason specifically said he was going to turn himself in to protect Michael, but I don't remember Anthony cutting his protection entering into the equation, I think Jason said he would have done it either way. Even if Anthony did say he would protect Michael in prison no way would Jason have trusted Anthony.

I think Sonny is to blame for a lot of things, but I don't blame him for Michael being raped. That's like blaming Carly, Dante, and Jax imo. If I went that route you could even say that Michael is also to blame a bit. imo, the only two people responsible for the actual rape were Carter and Franco.

[Chairperson Meow]

7 minutes ago, ulkis said:

By the time Michael went to prison, I don't think anyone brought up Sonny having kidnapped Johnny. I wasn't watching during Lulu/Johnny, didn't Sonny kidnap Johnny because of Michael being in a coma or something like that? I forget why Jason specifically said he was going to turn himself in to protect Michael, but I don't remember Anthony cutting his protection entering into the equation, I think Jason said he would have done it either way. Even if Anthony did say he would protect Michael in prison no way would Jason have trusted Anthony.

I think Sonny is to blame for a lot of things, but I don't blame him for Michael being raped. That's like blaming Carly, Dante, and Jax imo. If I went that route you could even say that Michael is also to blame a bit. imo, the only two people responsible for the actual rape were Carter and Franco.

I believe it happened after Sonny choked Johnny and held him off a balcony. BTW,there's a GH wiki with what looks like Sonny's entire rap sheet.  Holy shit. How is he the hero of this show?  Like, it's Stefano DiMera long.  Damn son.  But, I do blame Carly and Sonny because of a few important reasons:

1.) Carly edged, nay shoved AJ out of Michael's life to make Sonny his father knowing that Sonny is a dangerous mobster and gave her kid to Jason, a hitman. AJ said it best "This is who you picked to replace me?!" All three of them put Michael in continuous danger just to beat the Quartermaines.  

2.). Sonny has goons to watch Kristina at college,balls to murder AJ, guts to threaten everyone.  Yet, he couldn't take the rap for Michael, do time or anything for his crimes?  Maybe he was too busy drugging Jax and setting him up to worry about his kids. Great parent there.

3.). They literally taught Michael mob code like it's normal and okay.  Wtf is that?  No one should not know how to hide bodies.  

So, yeah if this show will continue to ignore the murder of one of my fav characters, I'll blame Sonny/Carly.  All day every day.   

[HeatLifer]

I think the blame goes to Sonny/Carly/Jason for the enviornment they forced their kids into. That choice is what led to a long list of horrible consequences. I'll give Jason a bit of credit for eventually realizing he was wrong.

[Lillybee]

IIRC, it was Sonny who called off the truce with AZ that Jason brokered. He had a bee in his bonnet about going after Johnny and wanted to kill him because of reasons. So I do blame Sonny for Michael's rape.

[ulkis]

16 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I think the blame goes to Sonny/Carly/Jason for the enviornment they forced their kids into. That choice is what led to a long list of horrible consequences. I'll give Jason a bit of credit for eventually realizing he was wrong.

Did he? He kinda did, but then he was going to raise Danny before he got knocked off the pier by Faison, so he knew he was wrong but was gonna do everything all over again. Oh Jason. Amnesia indeed.

[cmahorror]

I couldn't find the clip of Michael aiming the gun at Sonny but I did find his visit to Carly and Sonny when they were in jail.

 

I miss this Michael.

[ulkis]

came across this gem (from 8/4/11):

Olivia: Yeah. But someone will be hurting, because you nurse a broken heart by busting kneecaps and breaking orthodonture. I'm not saying you don't have reason to be out of sorts, but I sort of like our new glassware, ok?

Sonny: I'm not a punk kid who's gonna trash the hotel. I got more class than that.

[HeatLifer]

13 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Did he? He kinda did, but then he was going to raise Danny before he got knocked off the pier by Faison, so he knew he was wrong but was gonna do everything all over again. Oh Jason. Amnesia indeed.

Like I said, I give him a BIT of credit. His multiple apologies to Robin, even if it took yeaaars, will always be important to me. Jason DID progress in that way. And I won't take that away from the character. BUT...it's not like he left the mob or changed his lifestyle. And I'm not even sure how realistic it would have been for him to be able to do so, even though they made it so easy for BM's Jason to do it. I think Jason tried to give Jake a better life, but then he realized how difficult it was to stay away from his son. 

This also brings me to....I don't believe  JaSam should have ever had kids. I don't think it was ever realistic for Jason to want more after his experiences with the mob, Sonny, Michael, Jake, etc. 

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, Chairperson Meow said:

I believe it [anthony removing his protection] happened after Sonny choked Johnny and held him off a balcony. BTW,there's a GH wiki with what looks like Sonny's entire rap sheet.  Holy shit. How is he the hero of this show?  Like, it's Stefano DiMera long.  Damn son.  But, I do blame Carly and Sonny because of a few important reasons:  

Are you talking about this scene?

or is there another Sonny-threatens-Johnny on a balcony scene? I wouldn't doubt it. Poor Johnny. I went looking on youtube and there are a LOT of "Sonny threatens/punches/shoots Johnny" scenes.

[LeftPhalange]

IMO if you're going to blame Jason/Carly/Sonny for Michael being raped you also have to blame everyone who helped them get away with their shit and/or enabled them, which is A LOT of people. Freako wanted to hurt Michael because he wanted to hurt Jason. Even if Michael hadn't gone to prison Freako still would've gone after him. Freako and Carter did what they did because they're pieces of shit not because of how Michael was raised. 

[HeatLifer]

5 minutes ago, LeftPhalange said:

IMO if you're going to blame Jason/Carly/Sonny for Michael being raped you also have to blame everyone who helped them get away with their shit and/or enabled them, which is A LOT of people. Freako wanted to hurt Michael because he wanted to hurt Jason. Even if Michael hadn't gone to prison Freako still would've gone after him. Freako and Carter did what they did because they're pieces of shit not because of how Michael was raised. 

I think it's kinda a tangled, complicated subject for some. Yes, Michael's actual shit rapist is to blame for the rape. I'm certainly not arguing that. But there's also another important part of the scenario which is Sonny/Carly/Jason put Michael into a dangerous situation from the start. Sonny knew this and acknowledged this. Jason knew this. Carly knew this. They KNEW their enemies, whoever they may be, would come after the people they loved, their family, to get back at them. It's why Sonny left Brenda, it's why Jason left the mob for a blip, it's why they had bodyguards, it's why they had bullet-proof windows. 

The idea that something could happen to Michael or any of the kids, whether that's being stalked, kidnapped, shot, whatever, should never have been a shock to any of them. That's the price they paid.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

didn't Sonny kidnap Johnny because of Michael being in a coma or something like that?

Yes, I think the kidnapping was in retaliation for Claudia ordering the hit on Sonny at the warehouse, where Michael got the bullet instead. (That was also where Sonny shoved Kate out of the way but did nothing to protect Michael.)

1 hour ago, Chairperson Meow said:

he couldn't take the rap for Michael,

There was no rap to be taken, given that Michael bludgeoned Claudia in self-defense. But Sonny and Carly were so paranoid about the cops that they concocted that stupid coverup, which of course made everything worse. That's what the judge punished Michael for, which was wrong as far as that goes. Talk about betrayal: Sonny and Carly were the really ones who sent Michael to jail with their stupid plaaaan.

48 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I don't believe  JaSam should have ever had kids

Then what's the point of Sam? /semi sarcasm Less facetiously, Sam was never sure she could carry a baby until Danny happened, and Jason was a complete asshole about Danny being a child of a possible rape. And was it ever determined that Sam could give birth to more than one child? I totally agree that Sam and Jason should have had kids, but it's not like either kid was planned.

For all the reproductive problems the women on the show have (and what I wouldn't give for a man to have a low sperm count or lazy swimmers or being sterile for once!), it's amazing there are as many kids on the show as there are. And very few of them (if any) feel like they were honestly earned. Way too many of them are lazy plot points due to RL pregnancies or wanting immediate drama.

[HeatLifer]

I totally agree that Sam and Jason should have had kids, but it's not like either kid was planned.

Well, yeah, these two weren't. But Sam wanted Jason's baby for years. She wanted a family with him. That was what most of the conflict was with Liz/Jason/Jake. That's why she was devastated. Because she couldn't have his child and then oops! He's having one with another chick. 

But that's a whole other issue that makes me laugh bc, again, with the type of life Sam and Jason were leading, it made NO sense to have kids around. TPTB changed it, though, and now JaSam are just some innocent family who are representations of truth and justice! 

[Lillybee]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

By the time Michael went to prison, I don't think anyone brought up Sonny having kidnapped Johnny. I wasn't watching during Lulu/Johnny, didn't Sonny kidnap Johnny because of Michael being in a coma or something like that? I forget why Jason specifically said he was going to turn himself in to protect Michael, but I don't remember Anthony cutting his protection entering into the equation, I think Jason said he would have done it either way. Even if Anthony did say he would protect Michael in prison no way would Jason have trusted Anthony.

I think Sonny is to blame for a lot of things, but I don't blame him for Michael being raped. That's like blaming Carly, Dante, and Jax imo. If I went that route you could even say that Michael is also to blame a bit. imo, the only two people responsible for the actual rape were Carter and Franco.

Sonny kidnapped and held Johnny hostage because typical Sonny he blamed Johnny for shooting Kate, the first time she was shot. In reality Kate was shot by demon young Michael who then ran off leading stupid Sonny to think that Johnny kidnapped his precious son.

[LexieLily]

3 hours ago, ulkis said:

I guess I could do a lot of research and figure this all out but would somebody mind taking a moment to tell me:

#1 - What Franco did re: sexually assaulting/not sexually assaulting Sam?

#2 - And also how he allowed/set up Michael to be raped?

TIA!

When Michael was in prison, Franco told an inmate named Carter to rape him. Later, another headwriter changed it that Franco told said inmate to protect Michael, but the message got mixed up and the man thought Franco meant for him to rape Michael. The re-write was scorned by the audience, so much so that the writer complained in a magazine that the audience didn't have to like it but they had to accept that it was officially what had happened on the show.

Re: Sam, on Sam and Jason's honeymoon Franco drugged them both, locked Jason in a room and Franco set up a camera in there so he could watch what going on in the room with Sam and Franco. Franco undressed Sam, put her naked body on the bed and then covered the camera so Jason wouldn't know what was happening. Sam wound up pregnant and Franco left a message implying he could be the father, so Sam thought she had been raped for about two years until Franco revealed he didn't actually rape her.

Re: the bolded. Wow, the show-writer actually went to a magazine and said that? Maybe if they didn't so blatantly retcon important things and then not even do it well, the show wouldn't have this problem. THIS is a lot of the reason why Franco won't be accepted by a large majority of the audience: the fact that he is a rapist/serial killer/sexual tormenter notwithstanding, the show wants to try and whitewash his horrible actions (he didn't want Michael raped! he didn't actually rape Sam! he had a brain tumor!) so it's not insane that he is alive and walking around town and basically in his victims' faces all the time.

[LexieLily]

4 hours ago, ulkis said:

I guess I could do a lot of research and figure this all out but would somebody mind taking a moment to tell me:

#1 - What Franco did re: sexually assaulting/not sexually assaulting Sam?

#2 - And also how he allowed/set up Michael to be raped?

TIA!

When Michael was in prison, Franco told an inmate named Carter to rape him. Later, another headwriter changed it that Franco told said inmate to protect Michael, but the message got mixed up and the man thought Franco meant for him to rape Michael. The re-write was scorned by the audience, so much so that the writer complained in a magazine that the audience didn't have to like it but they had to accept that it was officially what had happened on the show.

Re: Sam, on Sam and Jason's honeymoon Franco drugged them both, locked Jason in a room and Franco set up a camera in there so he could watch what going on in the room with Sam and Franco. Franco undressed Sam, put her naked body on the bed and then covered the camera so Jason wouldn't know what was happening. Sam wound up pregnant and Franco left a message implying he could be the father, so Sam thought she had been raped for about two years until Franco revealed he didn't actually rape her.

Re: the bolded. Wow, the show-writer actually went to a magazine and said that? Maybe if they didn't so blatantly retcon important things and then not even do it well, the show wouldn't have this problem. THIS is a lot of the reason why Franco won't be accepted by a large majority of the audience: the fact that he is a rapist/serial killer/sexual tormenter notwithstanding, the show wants to try and whitewash his horrible actions (he didn't want Michael raped! he didn't actually rape Sam! he had a brain tumor!) so it's not insane that he is alive and walking around town and basically in his victims' faces all the time.

How does a message get that mixed up, anyway, that you get "rape Michael" from "protect Michael"?

Edited August 13, 2016 by LexieLily

[dubbel zout]

They wouldn't have had to retcon a thing if they'd given RoHo another character. I will never understand why he had to come on as Franco. It's the dumbest thing Ron did, IMO, and that bar is really high.