GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[dubbel zout]

I don't think Kevin and Luke had any interaction besides socially, right? Even back then, when people weren't quite so stuck in their specific bubbles, those two didn't overlap much. Same with Kevin and Sonny, but to an even lesser degree.

[Melgaypet]

I think so, yeah. Now and again, Lucy and Kevin would go out for a night at Luke's blues club (I miss that set so much, I loved it), but Kevin and Luke never had, like, an actual storyline together. I remember Luke getting pissy one time, when baby Lulu was sick and Lucky was having a guilty freak-out over not being a bone marrow match (this is just before the Nikolas and Stefan showed up, obvs.) and Kevin calmed him down, but I think was less about Kevin himself and more because he had no use for psychiatrists in general, and it didn't turn into a thing.

And, damn, it's weird the things I recall.

[dubbel zout]

3 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Luke's blues club (I miss that set so much, I loved it)

It was great for a lot of reasons: a perfect business for Luke, a natural meeting place, naked Helena picture!

[Melgaypet]

Oh god, the nude Helena painting! That Stefan had delivered to Luke and Nikolas was there in the club when he opened it! And Luke said something like "your granny entertained the whole Turkish fleet before Mikkos hosed her off and marched her down the aisle," which would gross me out today but back then made me laugh really hard! And Nikolas went flailing back to Stefan all "wtf!?" but then cracked up himself!

This show used to be so good.

[ulkis]

31 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Oh god, the nude Helena painting! That Stefan had delivered to Luke and Nikolas was there in the club when he opened it! And Luke said something like "your granny entertained the whole Turkish fleet before Mikkos hosed her off and marched her down the aisle," which would gross me out today but back then made me laugh really hard! And Nikolas went flailing back to Stefan all "wtf!?" but then cracked up himself!

This show used to be so good.

Stefan sending it to him was fantastic. The show doesn't know that kind of nuance now. 

I loved the Luke's club set too. Why in the world they decided to get rid of it, I dunno. They should have kept it as long as possible.

[dubbel zout]

Lulu should have taken that instead of the Haunted Star. I forget, though: Did the club burn down? Is that why it doesn't exist anymore? 

[TeeVee329]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

I remember Lucy having a very meta conversation in her first scene under Ron where she talked about how weird it was that everyone now just openly discussed how Sonny was a mobster.

I remember that too.  

And I recall her friendship with Luke, but I wasn't sure that extended to Sonny.  I was wondering if Lucy keeping the stuff about Ava and the pills to herself was a violation of any close relationship.  Not that Lucy hasn't ever been written OOC regarding her relationships, i.e. stabbing the Quartermaines in the back in favor of Nikolas. #eyeroll

Edited March 20, 2017 by TeeVee329

[Melgaypet]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Lulu should have taken that instead of the Haunted Star. I forget, though: Did the club burn down? Is that why it doesn't exist anymore? 

Behold the results of my sad, doomed shipping: I remember that, in late 2009, when JJ's Lucky sang "My Girl" to Elizabeth (a manipulative move that totally worked on me, damn it) in then-Jake's, there was a throwaway line that Luke's club was a "a print shop now."

I don't remember when they stopped using the set, though. Early 2000's, I suppose.

God, the shit that went down there. Didn't Robin and Stone have sex for the first time in the rooms above? (Or was that Kelly's?) BB King played there. And Georgie the First was born there. And Laura went after Damien Smith with a baseball bat. And Clink-Boom happened in the parking lot. And Jason Morgan had his first job there. And Nikolas was shot in the throat. And that's just like big stuff, people also used to just get a table and talk and spy on other people and there was always music playing in the background and it was just a really cool place. Really distinctive, not just a generic "club" set.

[UYI]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't think Kevin and Luke had any interaction besides socially, right? Even back then, when people weren't quite so stuck in their specific bubbles, those two didn't overlap much. Same with Kevin and Sonny, but to an even lesser degree.

Kevin and Sonny probably would have had some interaction when Stone was dying of AIDS. I know someone--either Robin, Felicia, or Mac--called their place to let them know when Stone died. 

2 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

Behold the results of my sad, doomed shipping: I remember that, in late 2009, when JJ's Lucky sang "My Girl" to Elizabeth (a manipulative move that totally worked on me, damn it) in then-Jake's, there was a throwaway line that Luke's club was a "a print shop now."

I don't remember when they stopped using the set, though. Early 2000's, I suppose.

God, the shit that went down there. Didn't Robin and Stone have sex for the first time in the rooms above? (Or was that Kelly's?) BB King played there. And Georgie the First was born there. And Laura went after Damien Smith with a baseball bat. And Clink-Boom happened in the parking lot. And Jason Morgan had his first job there. And Nikolas was shot in the throat. And that's just like big stuff, people also used to just get a table and talk and spy on other people and there was always music playing in the background and it was just a really cool place. Really distinctive, not just a generic "club" set.

Stone & Robin WERE going to have sex above Luke's club, but Mac almost caught them, and they went to a cheap motel instead.

[Oracle42]

4 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

I've seen folks on Twitter being all, "They should change Sam's paternity, Julian sucks too much to be Sam's father, blah blah."

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

It's not as if the writers use the family connection for anything meaningful. Someone else as Sam's father wouldn't change that.

But it should be meaningful or it shouldn't have been done. It's not that Julian sucks, although he does, it's that their relationship is nonexistent - same with Lucas, Kiki and Ava. There's no story there and there never was, which is why Alexis/Julian ended up with that ridiculous make up to break up "you lied to me about mobstering!!1!11" crap that they did 3 or 4 times before they were shoved into a wedding.

And I wanted VI for Julian Jerome because I think he would have been good casting for that character, based on the character from the 80s and the people that he should have been interacting with - not for RC's crappy retcon. I was honestly excited about seeing Duke/Anna/Julian and it was just a big bowl of nothing.

And from everything I saw, RC wasn't planning to write Julian/Alexis as a couple so making Julian Sam's father makes even less sense to me

But at this point, the only new people I want on GH are writers

Edited March 21, 2017 by Oracle42

[Melgaypet]

I assume the Sam fans who object to Julian (who does indeed suck) being her father wouldn't care for what were always the most logical father candidates, even if no character actually said it out loud: Stavros or Stefan Cassadine. (I mock, but I do get it, no one wants their fave to be the incest baby.) I don't know if I'd actually trust any recent GH writer to do that story without just making everything super-gross - Guza, at his very best, could maybe have done it - but it always made a sick kind of sense. Alexis was super-invested in (in love with?) Stefan, as children they were the family unfavorites isolated on that island who could only rely on each other; Stavros was always an entitled rapist asshole who would think nothing of abusing his little "cousin."

Maybe it's best that story never happened. I even feel kind of creepy talking about it. (This is a safe space, right, guys?) Still, I can't help thinking that it makes the most sense with Alexis' backstory.

[Oracle42]

Dude, the frequency with which you post my thoughts is starting to freak me out.

[Melgaypet]

Hee! Well, great minds...

[ulkis]

Quote

Remember when Valentin, the Cassadine That Terrified Other Cassadines, was cowed by Sonny? Pathetic.

speaking of something similar, does anyone remember when/why that ridiculous scene of Sonny beating up Jax took place? I remember it happening but not any of the details.

[Oracle42]

I remember him beating up the villain from Karate Kid 3 but I don't remember a rumble with Jax 

[Ambrosefolly]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

speaking of something similar, does anyone remember when/why that ridiculous scene of Sonny beating up Jax took place? I remember it happening but not any of the details.

 

 

Valentin's backstory is such fucking bullshit. I still say Stefan was more terrifying than him. (While Stavros was probably the most deadly out of all Cassadines, Helena unconditionally loved him as was not in mortal fear of him). Now I am scratching my head as to why Helena was fixated on female Alexis who has for the most part been a help to her precious Nikolas and never tried to outright steal his birthright, while the male, embittered Valentin was out there, with him being handicapped for part of his life and definitely wanted to be Mikkos' heir. 

Edited March 21, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[Oracle42]

There has never been a moment when Valentin has presented as a remotely credible threat. 

[WendyCR72]

17 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

There has never been a moment when Valentin has presented as a remotely credible threat. 

He threatens logic (although, on this show, he's just one of many plot devices that does). Why his existence was needed, I don't know.

[jsbt]

On 3/20/2017 at 7:53 PM, Melgaypet said:

Maybe it's best that story never happened. I even feel kind of creepy talking about it. (This is a safe space, right, guys?) Still, I can't help thinking that it makes the most sense with Alexis' backstory.

Too true. Just said this in the other thread for like the umpteenth time, but it always bears saying that Stavros is the obvious story there.

Edited March 22, 2017 by jsbt

[Oracle42]

If the writers were anyone but Jelly I would still kinda want to see it. It is the only thing that actually makes sense given Alexis's  backstory and it still bothers me that this alcoholism thing is about fuckin Julian.

After everything else Alexis has gone through, Julian's pathetic threats shouldn't even register on the radar.

Alexis's alcoholism being about flashbacks from Stavros attacking her makes much more sense to me. Plus,  if they're going to reunite Julian and Alexis again it would  probably help if he was being measured against Stavros instead of being a lackey again.

On Guiding Light, CBS married off a couple whose mothers were half sisters. The incest baby angle doesn't bother me. I don't actually care about characters I like having nice things happen to them, I just want things to happen and for those things to be in-character and to be a byproduct of their history/circumstances .  

Also, Sam as an illegitimate  Stavros incest baby actually gives Helena a legit reason to give a shit about her. But Nik should really be around for a story like that, and not frikkin recast soccer dad Nik. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

it still bothers me that this alcoholism thing is about fucking Julian. After everything else Alexis has gone through, Julian's pathetic threats shouldn't even register on the radar.

Ugh, I know. Julian should not be the straw that breaks the camel's back. 

They could easily retcon Stavros as Sam's father, but the writers won't follow through, so there's not much point. And I suspect they'd focus on the worst parts of the story, i.e., the incest angle. Please, no.

[Oracle42]

That's actually the reason I'm surprised that RC didn't at least attempt it. But I'd bet Guza at least considered it

[nilyank]

If Stavros was Sam's biological father, Helena would have actually wanted to have a relationship with her as means of connection to Stavros. However, for the most part, Helena has completely ignored Sam.

As obsessed as Helena has been with Stavros and his progeny, I am sure she would have kept tracknow of Sam if she was his.

[ulkis]

Maybe, but I could accept Helena not knowing. I'm sure there were a few things Mikkos could pull off without her knowing. In any case, I think the dramatic payoff would be worth Helena not knowing. (In the hands of capable writers, of course.)

[Oracle42]

How would she have known? Mikkos sent Alexis away to boarding school in a different country, arranged for the baby's adoption and faked a death certificate just in case someone ever went looking - that's a considerable amount of effort.

Plus, the baby was an illegitimate girl-child. Helena loathed Alexis and hated her mother. I'm not sure even her obsessive love for Stavros would trump that

Edited March 22, 2017 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

This is quite the snazzy synth free music for Robert and Luke lol:

https://youtu.be/PN1EJ4vdetw?t=835

[ulkis]

Throwback thursday to that time Jerry kidnapped Alexis, and only "John McBain and his cohorts had the balls and the proper stunt training to rescue her."

https://youtu.be/u3tU9MLV0ss?t=122

[Asp Burger]

One of many bitchy scenes between Liz and Carly, from the Sarah Brown years, over Jason. Comedic bonus at the end: Jacob Young yelling "Elizabeth!" having a rage episode, and making a "trying not to cry after a whuppin'" face...which was most of what he did in three years on the show.  

Edited April 1, 2017 by Asp Burger

[dubbel zout]

Carly never paid for her coffee! Typical.

9 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Comedic bonus at the end: Jacob Young yelling "Elizabeth!" having a rage episode, and making a "trying not to cry after a whuppin'" face...which was most of what he did in three years on the show.  

So funny. JY was so miscast as Lucky.

[TeeVee329]

Gawd, Carly is such a haughty bitch in that clip, I kinda love it.  It makes our current soccer mom Carly look even lamer by comparison.

[Asp Burger]

She's matured so much since then. Back then, Jason and Sonny were her whole world, and she went all over town either snarling or sobbing about things going on with them. Now...well...

Still that, but she has a hotel! And another kid! (Or maybe two.) 

Edited April 2, 2017 by Asp Burger

[TeeVee329]

And she's also claimed eternal ownership of poor Jax as well.  

[ulkis]

The main thread reminded me . . . youtube recommended me a video and I forgot or missed how violent Jason actually was in the Pratt years. It was a video of Jason beating up Ric and Jason was actually kicking the shit out of him. I mean, did the network not pay attention to the show at all that this guy was being portrayed as a super hunk at the same time?

[HeatLifer]

I always thought it was odd that the audience/other characters had to accept the violent side of Jason.

Jason became way less complex after the '90s. Remember the hospital break-up with Robin? He basically described the business/violence as something he just...knew how to do and he was good at it. He thought his brain damage kept him from ever being able to do anything else. That was never explored at all later in the years. The natural progression of Jason's story should have been him realizing that he's more than a killer. We never reached that point because of Guza/SBu.

Edited April 6, 2017 by HeatLifer

[Oracle42]

He's talked about it since then but it's never resulted in a behavioral change

[HeatLifer]

4 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

He's talked about it since then but it's never resulted in a behavioral change

I think Michael's shooting and subsequent coma made Jason recognize that he made wrong choices. He would never allow Michael to be a hitman, for example. But Jason should have left the mob then and/or before that. His character should have never been tied to Sonny the way he was. And on any other show, with other writers and no actor input, it would have happened.

[cmahorror]

I think that the coma was definitely a start...

 

 

...but I think the tipping point was Michael killing Claudia.

[Asp Burger]

18 hours ago, ulkis said:

The main thread reminded me . . . youtube recommended me a video and I forgot or missed how violent Jason actually was in the Pratt years. It was a video of Jason beating up Ric and Jason was actually kicking the shit out of him. I mean, did the network not pay attention to the show at all that this guy was being portrayed as a super hunk at the same time?

Same thing with Sonny. The second time he beat up Ned (on the docks), which recaps tell me was in March 2003, was not that bad -- Jason/Ric in the parking garage pretty much stands alone for duration and intensity -- but it was pretty bad in its own right. And the violence was completely one-sided. Ned actually was hospitalized as a result. Here's the line that sent Sonny into a a violent rage:  

Ned: I've paid the price for getting involved with Faith Rosco. I've temporarily lost custody of little Kristina. And as much as that hurts, there is one small consolation, and that's seeing you, Sonny, afraid and desperate to save his family. But you can't do anything about it, so how does it feel? After all these years of destroying the people in my family, the people that I love, how's it feel to be helpless?

Of course, we were supposed to still find him sympathetic, because he was having nightmares of Faith pushing Carly down the stairs.  

[Oracle42]

But at the time they were still recognizing that there was a difference between "sympathetic" and right. 

For some reason, these writers are just writing Sonny as Victor - Guza didn't even do that, especially not towards the end

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Oracle42 said:

But at the time they were still recognizing that there was a difference between "sympathetic" and right. 

The show had some nuance back then. That word isn't in anyone's vocabulary these days.

[Asp Burger]

Oh, I thought the Pruza era was horrid. No good memories there for me. In fact, some of the most vile things I've ever seen or heard on daytime came from GH 2002-06.

I had liked a lot of what he had done his first time around. I actually was happy to hear he was replacing McTavish, who was bad in a different way. Then the writing happened, and the air leaked out of that balloon really fast.   

[WendyCR72]

It's all preference and there was a TON from Guza and Guza/Pratt I despised. But I got Scrubs out of it, and the MetroCourt Hostage Crisis was actually different at the time. So I have a few crumbs of goodwill there. And, when the mob frenzy was lessened to write actual romance, Guza did actually have a staff that could do it. Between Carlivati/Valentini and now Passanante/Altman and Valentini, I literally no longer watch and saw zero romance or family and was so apathetic that it finally broke me from this show.

Not sure if that's good or not. Well, not when soaps are fighting to survive.

But for the reasons I listed, despite being a hack in his own right, I have crumbs of goodwill towards Guza and his writing team - you know, those who actually knew character history before being tossed out (even if, yeah, they fucked it up). But writers that didn't know and fucked them up seemed worse, to me.

[Oracle42]

Well, when Guza f'ed up a character, it was probably knowingly - either out of spite or because he had a story idea that he believed was more important than character integrity. I'm pretty sure it happens now out of apathy and ignorance. That is worse

Edited April 8, 2017 by Oracle42

[Ambrosefolly]

16 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Well, when Guza f'ed up a character, it was probably knowingly out of spite or because he had a story idea that he believed was more important than character integrity. I'm pretty sure it happens now out of apathy and ignorance. That is worse

 

Not for me, it is equally as bad because it ends up being equally as damaging. 

[Oracle42]

Is it? I mean, the characters felt more three-dimensional even in the midst of character destruction than they do right now. And it's a soap - characters that we love have to do terrible things to create drama. I think Tony, during the worst part of his breakdown, was a more fully realized, more sympathetic character than anyone on GH has been in the past 5/6 years

[Asp Burger]

Guza with Wendy Riche's moderating influence (or "interference," depending on one's take) was something else. When I think back on 2002-06, when the "boys" had the run of the joint, I don't know how I could stand it. The "Fab Four" era...that horrible teen set...Sonny twisting Faith's arms behind her back and forcing a kiss on her, in front of all the other mob bosses (misogyny in general was off the charts)...the Dead Man's Hand, and pretty much everything else in the sweaty desperation to make Sam happen in those first couple years...Dobson... 

Here's a randomly chosen week from summer 2004, which would be all the nostalgia killing I would need: "Carly enlisted Coleman's help to find her father and then went to New York City to confront the man she believed was her father. Nikolas claimed that he had shot Mary in self-defense. Mary survived the shooting but appeared to have a split personality. Lorenzo was stunned and hurt to learn that Sage's death had been a result of mistaken identity. The teens realized that they had never really known Sage. Courtney used Sonny's jet to go to his island, so Jax joined her. Sonny and Jason were at odds over Sam's baby. Sam decided that she wanted Jason, not Sonny, to be a father to her child. Faith and Justus planned to run away together, but Sonny wanted Faith dead, even if Jason had to kill Justus to make it happen."

But most of us are in agreement that the show hasn't been consistently well written in a while, whether 2004, 2011, or 2017 is most or least agonizing to us in a relative sense.    

Edited April 8, 2017 by Asp Burger

[Francie]

On 3/20/2017 at 9:53 PM, Melgaypet said:

I assume the Sam fans who object to Julian (who does indeed suck) being her father wouldn't care for what were always the most logical father candidates, even if no character actually said it out loud: Stavros or Stefan Cassadine. (I mock, but I do get it, no one wants their fave to be the incest baby.) I don't know if I'd actually trust any recent GH writer to do that story without just making everything super-gross - Guza, at his very best, could maybe have done it - but it always made a sick kind of sense. Alexis was super-invested in (in love with?) Stefan, as children they were the family unfavorites isolated on that island who could only rely on each other; Stavros was always an entitled rapist asshole who would think nothing of abusing his little "cousin."

Maybe it's best that story never happened. I even feel kind of creepy talking about it. (This is a safe space, right, guys?) Still, I can't help thinking that it makes the most sense with Alexis' backstory.

As a Game of Thrones enthisiast, I'm okay with that.

I wasn't exactly a gutter rat (The shipper term Alexis and Stefan) back in the day, but I appreciated their chemistry, thought they both were top notch actors ( what happened, NLG?) and I really dug their "us against the world" vibe. 

I loved Luke's blues club too. It had that really cool exterior  and so much space inside. The  amount of set space that it took might've been the reason why they stopped using it.   Not as remarkable as BB King, but All-for-One played there too. And in addition to the Helena painting, one of Lucy's high heel shoes was on display above the bar. Luke had bought it at a nurses Ball where Lucy stripped for money.  Which, at the time, didn't seem as sexist as it might now. 

 Kevin always had Mac for a best friend, and he was a little too straight and narrow for Luke's liking.  But he was Lucy's man, and Lucy was a dear, dear friend of Luke's. I remember at the beginning of the Cassadine introduction, when Stefan arranged it for Kevin to be in legal trouble, and Lucy came to Luke so that he would come with her to meet the high profile attorney who had swooped in out of the blue, offering to represent Kevin. Luke matter in all places, Luke's Club. The lawyer? Alexis Davis. 

If I recall correctly, Guza's original plan was for Kevin to be a secret Cassadine.  But Guza left mid-storyline when the other soap was picked up, and the subsequent writer went in a different direction. 

I think Robin lost her virginity in the rooms above Mac's club, the Outback. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Francie

[UYI]

9 minutes ago, Francie said:

 

I think Robin lost her virginity in the rooms above Mac's club, the Outback. 

She ALMOST did. When Mac nearly caught her and Stone, they ran away to a cheap motel. 

[Cheyanne11]

Quote

I think Robin lost her virginity in the rooms above Mac's club, the Outback. 

Quote

She ALMOST did. When Mac nearly caught her and Stone, they ran away to a cheap motel. 

No, it was in Sonny's apartment, where Stone lived (and so did Brenda)--which was above Luke's club. 

Sonny bought the penthouse a few months later, but that dark, small apartment had a lot of memorable scenes.

[UYI]

I swear I remember it being in a cheap motel. Because when Stone told Robin he was HIV positive after he was shot and started bleeding, he was in a cheap motel. 

Either way, I'm sorry if I got that wrong!