These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[SueB]

20 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

There is a strong probability that Jensen did not film on Friday.  We know he didn't film Monday, (there are pics of him at a shelter with the Birthday Party Project) and unless he took a late night flight back yesterday there is a strong probability he's not filming today either.

That means he's most likely missed 3 days already.

Finales I can remember him missing 3 days from:

Season 5

Season 6

Season 8.

What worries me is that the writers tend to cram everything into the final 3 episodes.   Since they had to write episode 18 as Dean light due to the Bacchus thing, there is a good chance Beren's didn't write any kind of meaningful role for him.  I don't BuckLemming or Dabb (especially) attempting to course correct that.

It was already written before he was named King.  They had to rewrite to cover his missing time.  So whatever Beren's intention for writing for Dean was not originally influenced by Jensen's availability.   I think that's a difference that makes a difference.  And I think they've proven adept at working around someone's shooting schedule.  I posted this in the spoiler thread on March 5th:

Quote

Math for 14.18, because I could.

So, I went back and looked at EVERY Jason Fischer post for 14.18 shooting to determine how many scenes were we missing of Jensen -- as this seems to be a concern due to his recent appearance in Mardi Gras.

Here's the basis of the assessment
- There were a total of 44 scenes.  10 of these scenes were split into a pt 1 and a pt 2.  On one occaision it seemed like it was filmed 3 times "ex: 35, 35 pt1, 35 pt? ... ? was when he wrote in kanji.  I got the number but the part character was odd).  Note: Jason did NOT put up the scene numbers for Friday the 22nd but we have pictures of all J2M with Misha's kids in the bunker.  I used the missing numbers for those days - which were mostly the final scenes of the episode. Also, if it was on a day Jensen was filming, I presumed they had him in the scene.  This of course, could be wrong -- but since they actually did some rewrite, I imagine they leveraged everything they could. 
- Methodology for "Is Jensen Missing":
- Filmed on Fri 1 Mar,  Mon 4 March = definitely "Yes"
- Filmed on Thu 28 Feb: Before noon - "P" - potentially/partially IN the scene, This is based on his arrival time in New Orleans along with the odd sequencing of filming that day. 
- Filmed on Thu 28 Feb: post noon - "L" - likely missing
- Filmed Friday 21 Feb - Wed 27 Feb - N, not missing
Complicating factors are:
1) When they split a scene - this could be when they are doing coverage from multiple points of view - so they block it one way - and the camera films from one direction; block it a different way and the camera films from a different direction.  This is often part of how they get 'coverage'.  They film it, focusing on one actor, reset, and film again, focusing on antoher actor.  If Jensen was in one of the two splits, I considered him 'p' or potential/partially IN the scene. 7 of the 10 split shots were 'p'.  Meaning they had part of the scene with Jensen in it and part of it was shot without Jensen.
2) Total scene count at 44. So... either the scenes are less than 1 min or there is a shit ton of editing to do. Typically they are in the low 40's for total scenes.
3) They did reshoots (or completed shooting) for two episodes on the first day of filming.  Specifically 14.14, scene "B30", and 14.16, scenes 44, 15.  This could have been something found in editing or something that they needed to correct in order to make a later episode work properly.

With ALL that info, here's the numbers.  Using 44 scenes:

50% Jensen definitely IN the scene
25% Jensen partially IN the scene
7% Jensen likely NOT in the scene
18% Jensen definitely NOT in the scene

Now, if I recalculate the "partially/possibly" scenes to a most pessimistic view, then I would presume all split scenes where he filmed, are 'partial', and all scenes on Thursday am he missed.

THAT set of numbers looks like this:
50% Jensen definitely IN the scene
16% Jensen partially IN the scene
16% Jensen likely NOT in the scene
16% Jensen definitely NOT in the scene

If I boil it down to split scenes = coverage (i.e. , Jensen is still in the scene, just not there filming when they were covering another character's lines). And all likely missing is definitely missing:
66% Jensen is in the scenes
34% Jensen is NOT in the scene
 

Feel free to recalculate.  That kanji was a pain. 

Opinion:  Not a horrible impact for him going to Mardi Gras. And he's there for the final scenes.  

[Aeryn13]

I think he missed more for ep 19 than probably for ep 18. But what he is missing now will be for the Finale itself. So two to three days possibly. Not good.

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, SueB said:

was already written before he was named King.  They had to rewrite to cover his missing time.  So whatever Beren's intention for writing for Dean was not originally influenced by Jensen's availability.   I think that's a difference that makes a difference.  And I think they've proven adept at working around someone's shooting schedule.  I posted this in the spoiler thread on March 5th:

They knew about Jensen being Bacchus about 5-6 weeks before the event.  So more than likely the script wasn't finished at that time and Berens was putting the finishing touches on it.  That was only when it was announced.

From interviews it sounds like it was Danneel's idea, and she got in touch with Holly (publicist for WB).  So the preparations were probably starting long before he was even announced which means Berens would have been working on the script initially when they found out.   So I don'tlook at it as being rewritten.

As to the amount he filmed, I go by the rule of Thumb, one filming day equals appoxiametly five mintues of screen time.  I think Jensen filmed 3-4 days on this ep, depending on when he left.  So my concerns stand.

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

think he missed more for ep 19 than probably for ep 18

No, I believe he filmed a normal amount of time for 19 as far as I can tell.  Filming for that ep started Tuesday after Mardi Gras.  We had that tweet from Jim Michael and Jim Beaver, that suggested Jensen was on set.

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

They knew about Jensen being Bacchus about 5-6 weeks before the event.  So more than likely the script wasn't finished at that time and Berens was putting the finishing touches on it.  That was only when it was announced.

From interviews it sounds like it was Danneel's idea, and she got in touch with Holly (publicist for WB).  So the preparations were probably starting long before he was even announced which means Berens would have been working on the script initially when they found out.   So I don'tlook at it as being rewritten.

As to the amount he filmed, I go by the rule of Thumb, one filming day equals appoxiametly five mintues of screen time.  I think Jensen filmed 3-4 days on this ep, depending on when he left.  So my concerns stand.

No, I believe he filmed a normal amount of time for 19 as far as I can tell.  Filming for that ep started Tuesday after Mardi Gras.  We had that tweet from Jim Michael and Jim Beaver, that suggested Jensen was on set.

Okay. But they started the Finale last Friday, didn't they? And it looks like he missed that plus Monday and maybe today. Doesn't look good for the Finale. I wouldn't mind if he still had a story but now? That looks really bad.  

[ILoveReading]

The second tweet was scenes filmed yesterday so its possible that scenes 36, and 38 are going to be the ends scenes that Jensen didn't film.

[ILoveReading]

Todays

Kind of disheartening that they seem to be filming the scenes that are toward the end of the episode without Jensen.

[7kstar]

Putting this here as I think it will fit better.

Okay, so we know they love to spin give the fans what they want but NOT as they expected.  They love to rinse and repeat.  Billie said Dean now dies one way instead of the many different ways the books use to show.  Not word for word translation.

So if they want to rinse and repeat season 7 ending but this time it is Jensen/Dean all alone and everyone else is all gone.  Instead of Dean dying, everyone else is gone...add Wayward Sister spin-off, tie in, everyone else is sent to?  Leaving Cass Empty threat for next season.  This also allows for Dean to be light in the Final and yet still be important for next season.  It still crams in too much in the last ep and leaves the newbie fans excited about all of the story potential for next year.   Allows Dabb and Company to be proud of what they've created and believed they have done something really better than the past.  Missing anything?   Of course it could be wishful thinking that they came up with something that could have potential but they once again waste it all.

[tessathereaper]

21 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

Putting this here as I think it will fit better.

Okay, so we know they love to spin give the fans what they want but NOT as they expected.  They love to rinse and repeat.  Billie said Dean now dies one way instead of the many different ways the books use to show.  Not word for word translation.

So if they want to rinse and repeat season 7 ending but this time it is Jensen/Dean all alone and everyone else is all gone.  Instead of Dean dying, everyone else is gone...add Wayward Sister spin-off, tie in, everyone else is sent to?  Leaving Cass Empty threat for next season.  This also allows for Dean to be light in the Final and yet still be important for next season.  It still crams in too much in the last ep and leaves the newbie fans excited about all of the story potential for next year.   Allows Dabb and Company to be proud of what they've created and believed they have done something really better than the past.  Missing anything?   Of course it could be wishful thinking that they came up with something that could have potential but they once again waste it all.

I think I see where you are going but I don't entirely understand what you are saying?  I'm not sure what you mean by the Wayward spin-off, tie in, etc part?  I'm also not sure I see how it makes Dean important for next season?  But the general idea is interesting but lets face it any potential would most likely be wasted as you mention, it is Dabbnatural and that's how they roll. 🙂

Edited March 20, 2019 by tessathereaper

[7kstar]

6 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

I think I see where you are going but I don't entirely understand what you are saying?  I'm not sure what you mean by the Wayward spin-off, tie in, etc part?  I'm also not sure I see how it makes Dean important for next season?

Guess more is in my head than on the page...oops.  Thinking how they love AU's, So could everyone be sent to another AU as the new purgatory replacement.  Dean is left alone in our world and now everyone is missing/dead.  He can bring in his Wayward Sister characters fulfilling his desire for the spinoff but still keeping it in Dabbnatural world.  Dean is in Sam's position at the end of 7/beginning of 8 and how in the world will they resolve this mess.   Just a crazy thought.

[gonzosgirrl]

Is it too much to hope that Dean is crying alone in the woods because Michael never really left and he's used Dean to kill everybody else? 

Edited March 20, 2019 by gonzosgirrl
extra words

[tessathereaper]

2 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

Guess more is in my head than on the page...oops.  Thinking how they love AU's, So could everyone be sent to another AU as the new purgatory replacement.  Dean is left alone in our world and now everyone is missing/dead.  He can bring in his Wayward Sister characters fulfilling his desire for the spinoff but still keeping it in Dabbnatural world.  Dean is in Sam's position at the end of 7/beginning of 8 and how in the world will they resolve this mess.   Just a crazy thought.

Ah...yeah now I see.  Definitely wouldn't be here for his Waywards, I like Jody and Donna and that's it.  I wish the rest would get electrocuted(I mean fictionally of course:))  

Yeah, now that I think of it, I can't see this scenario working AT ALL in Dabb's hands(or anyone else involved with the show right now honestly).  It would just be another way for them to sideline and put down Dean in some manner or other.

[7kstar]

2 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

Ah...yeah now I see.  Definitely wouldn't be here for his Waywards, I like Jody and Donna and that's it.  I wish the rest would get electrocuted(I mean fictionally of course:))  

Yeah, now that I think of it, I can't see this scenario working AT ALL in Dabb's hands(or anyone else involved with the show right now honestly).  It would just be another way for them to sideline and put down Dean in some manner or other.

I'm spitballing of course.  My only criteria were to make sure that I mimic the season 7 ending somehow leaving Dean alive in our world and the rest were gone.  It doesn't have to make sense per se.  

Of course, I would be fine with Michael killed everyone else and left Dean alive but I doubt they would even think of that...

My idea came from nowhere is how I feel they do what they have done the last season's final for a while now.  JMV  It may be sad or funny considering your point of view.  🙂

[Aeryn13]

I honestly think the show is too straight forward lame for any belated "twist". Jensen can probably miss time from the Finale because Dean isn't needed. Like in the last episode.    

In fairness, Jared, while not having missed the first day, apparently is still in Austin also?

Presumably this Finale is all about Nougat and Nickifer then? Yaaaawn.  

Edited March 20, 2019 by Aeryn13

[SueB]

They often get Monday off.   Establishing shots, guest cast, etc...

[Aeryn13]

I don't think they shot Tuesday either or will shoot today. Not if they're not in Vancouver already. Which would be half the Finale. If Jensen is still in Austin, he wouldn't have shot at all for ep 20 yet.

[ILoveReading]

9 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Is it too much to hope that Dean is crying alone in the woods because Michael never really left and he's used Dean to kill everybody else? 

Is it too much to hope that Dean has some secret plan he plans to carry out because if he tells Sam and Cas they will just accuse him of wanting to quit on them again and beat him up?

[Myrelle]

After the bait and switch, I feel like the season is over already, tbh.

And the few spoilers(but mostly the non-spoilers) we've gotten for the rest of the season are only making me feel that way more strongly. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

After the bait and switch, I feel like the season is over already, tbh.

And the few spoilers(but mostly the non-spoilers) we've gotten for the rest of the season are only making me feel that way more strongly. 

Yup. I'll leave it on the DVR but I have zero enthusiasm for watching it. I actively hate anything Nickifer related and just don't care about Nougat Sue and his merry band of new friends (Wayward or Lebanese), so I'm at a loss to find anything that entices me to watch in the spoilers and spec so far.

[NougatJack]

BTW, why is there no sneak peek? 

[ILoveReading]

26 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

BTW, why is there no sneak peek? 

There is no set time and date for them.  They've been early the last few eps, but most times they come out in the afternoon on the day of the ep. 

[ILoveReading]

Why is Dean acting so weird around Jack?  Even when he wasn't sure if Jack could be trusted he wasn't like that around him and had no problem announcing he'd kill him if it came to it.  

What's with Sam's werid faces like,  he's judging everything Dean says, seriously Dean just punch him.  It's considered an act of brotherly love.

[gonzosgirrl]

29 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Why is Dean acting so weird around Jack?  Even when he wasn't sure if Jack could be trusted he wasn't like that around him and had no problem announcing he'd kill him if it came to it.  

What's with Sam's werid faces like,  he's judging everything Dean says, seriously Dean just punch him.  It's considered an act of brotherly love.

Lordy, where is Supernatural - cuz I don't know what that ^^ show is. Good grief.

I didn't get Sam judging Dean from that though - more like they were both incredibly awkward and he was going along with whatever nonsense Dean was saying just to gtfo of there. Weird.

[Aeryn13]

So everyone acts super-suspicious and everyone is aware they are acting super-suspicious? I mean Jack could clearly tell this thing was bogus but kept face. Dean is walking around on weird eggshells but is keeping face. And Sam is making faces and was gonna tell Jack a version of "you weird us out" or something? 

Guess someone got the brothers confused because Dean is usually blunt and Sam usually the one who'd want to keep a facade of normalcy. 

What other hunters should call? The AU folks are blissfully dead and they don't have so many non-dead contacts. Garth is probably rotting in that trunk by now.

At least Dean wasn't stuffing his face, though we got the twice the beer thing in.    

[ILoveReading]

11 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

What other hunters should call?

My guess is that Dabb isn't ready to give up on Supreme Leader Chief Sue, so Michael didn't take out all the AU hunters, just most of them.  I'm sure there will be a very special episode coming up where whoever is left pledges to still follow Sam for...reasons.

[Myrelle]

Let me guess, this is the excuse/set up(PU!) for NougatSue to hunt on his own with his new "friends".

[gonzosgirrl]

23 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

What other hunters should call?

Enter the Waywards....

7 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Let me guess, this is the excuse/set up(PU!) for NougatSue to hunt on his own with his new "friends".

Uhhuh. You just never know who you'll run into at the grocery store.

[ILoveReading]

I'd like to believe the two things of beer might indicate Dean's mental state because of the whole Michael thing, but someone asked this question to Jensen at a con, about whether his choice of beverage meant anything.

His answer was no.  Dean just likes to drink and it has no deeper meaning.

[catrox14]

My wildass spec is they are going to do something with the box and don't want Jack to figure it out so they are acting cagey which is stupid in and of itself if Jack already knows about the box which maybe he doesn't?

[Casseiopeia]

Sooo...we're getting that long awaited episode "The One Where Jack Goes Shopping"...oh man.

[ILoveReading]

I was thinking maybe Dean meant the AU hunters,  On this show we can't take it for granted that Perez/Vaught knew they were killed off.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Sooo...we're getting that long awaited episode "The One Where Jack Goes Shopping"...oh man.

And makes some human friends his own age. This week on As The Supernatural World Turns. 

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

I was thinking maybe Dean meant the AU hunters,  On this show we can't take it for granted that Perez/Vaught knew they were killed off.

Ha! Sad but true. 

[ILoveReading]

So the Synopsis for episode 18 is literally just "Sam and Dean continue to worry over Jack's soul."

I think its safe to say that the Michael storyline was unceremoniously dumped in favor of NougatNatural.

Even Sam has been pushed to the side with nothing to do.

[Aeryn13]

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. That's the blandest, most boring press release this show ever put out. What the hell is this complete obsession with Nougatnatural?

I can see it now: Episode 19: "The worry over Jack's soul continues." 

[ILoveReading]

Episode 20- The battle for Jack's soul continues meanwhile there is a return of an old friend.

*Prays for the death to be Dean.  

[catrox14]

At this point, would they really call Lucifer or Nick an "old friend". I wonder if it's going to be Donatello coming back to help Jack. Claire is possible.

I just can't with the "PR" for this show. It's garbage.

[catrox14]

Hers what I don't understand. Jack's soul is supposed to be gone so how can there be a battle for it? Will it be discovered there is a holding place for Jack's soul? Sam could be re ensouled in S6 because Dean went to Death to help, the huge difference being Sam's soul was still intact. By all account, Jack's like Lily's, was being burned off as in destroyed....and I just realized that is another lift from early seasons SPN when being in hell burned off your soul making you a demon. So really, if using angel  magic burns off the human soul, shouldn't they turn into a demon? 

How much you wanna bet that's what they are going to do. Make Jack part demon, part angel and then he kills Lucifer for reals this time and Jack is the new big bad for s15.

I am so tired of Nougatnatural.

Edited March 21, 2019 by catrox14
because mobile posting is the pits

[ILoveReading]

Is a show that is struggling in all these areas (IMO, of course) this does not bode well for the ep.

[SueB]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Is a show that is struggling in all these areas (IMO, of course) this does not bode well for the ep.

I think we may be seeing departures this year from all departments.  Just a suspicion.  And they are giving either the opportunity for these guys to get credits on their resumes OR they are gearing up to have them take on new roles. 

[Myrelle]

21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Is a show that is struggling in all these areas (IMO, of course) this does not bode well for the ep.

Holy crap.

This sounds like a disaster just waiting to happen.🤯

[PAForrest]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I think we may be seeing departures this year from all departments.  Just a suspicion.  And they are giving either the opportunity for these guys to get credits on their resumes OR they are gearing up to have them take on new roles. 

I wouldn't be at all surprised either. I fully expect at least one writing departure. I guess we'll know soon enough.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Is a show that is struggling in all these areas (IMO, of course) this does not bode well for the ep.

Lordy. They really are just using it as a training ground now, aren't they. Might be great for new viewers who don't give crap about the history of the show (both characterization-wise and the overall 'mood' of the show), but for me, it's just a shitty way to end what was once my favourite series.

[Casseiopeia]

11 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Lordy. They really are just using it as a training ground now, aren't they. Might be great for new viewers who don't give crap about the history of the show (both characterization-wise and the overall 'mood' of the show), but for me, it's just a shitty way to end what was once my favourite series.

It looks to me like they (CW? WB?) are trying to give as many writers/directors Supernatural credits on their resume as they can before the series ends.

Were Jensen and Jared made aware of this when they signed on for another season?  

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, PAForrest said:

I wouldn't be at all surprised either. I fully expect at least one writing departure. I guess we'll know soon enough.

Sadly, I think it will be Steve Yockey

[ILoveReading]

Great, more injured Sam.

[Casseiopeia]

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Great, more injured Sam.

I didn't see where Sam got injured.  All I saw was Nick was back...blah

[catrox14]

Wait, so they just returned and are taking another break already??

Why would Castiel need Anael to contact Chuck???

[ILoveReading]

Just now, Casseiopeia said:

I didn't see where Sam got injured.  All I saw was Nick was back...blah

Its a really fast scene, Sam is laying on the ground and it looks like Dean is hovering over him.

[PAForrest]

14 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Sadly, I think it will be Steve Yockey

Well, until three episodes ago when Yockey kicked Dean to the curb in a blatantly "neener neener" move and turned a blind eye to the mytharc he himself set up less than a handful of episodes before, I'd have been worried that the show was losing possibly the only writer who could actually write, and more importantly would write for Dean.

But now ... honestly, it just doesn't matter anymore. My first guess is that Berens may be/is halfway out the door, but it could be anyone given the number of noobs they're pushing into the BTS roles. Hell, maybe almost everyone is leaving for reasons.

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Wait, so they just returned and are taking another break already??

I'm guessing it's because we're down to the final four. If they don't take a break, they'd finish at the beginning of April instead of the end - which would probably not be a bad thing. Get it over with.

But mostly it's because March Madness is in play, and I think all of the networks are pulling some new episodes for two or three weeks.

[Aeryn13]

9 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Its a really fast scene, Sam is laying on the ground and it looks like Dean is hovering over him.

Yeah, a drive-by "death" for Sam again? Seriously? 

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Yeah, a drive-by "death" for Sam again? Seriously? 

Ugh.

Not again. 🙄