These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[Aeryn13]

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How do these back door pilots work? Is it given a green light for next season  if it has good ratings as episodes of Supernatural?

Ratings aren`t really a good measurement for backdoor Pilots because the general audience wouldn`t even know they are watching one. The half hour break might be interesting. Like, if a lot of people tune out during the episode, it would be an indicator. But a lot of it is about buzz and reception. Have the new characters/story/setting been favourably received as far as they can tell, stuff like that.

In the end, either a network believes in a project or they do not. When the Originals had their Backdoor Pilot, fans hated it and the network greenlit the show anyway.. But the characters themselves still had large fangroups already so it was less of a gamble. Personally, I think they invested so much in it, giving up 3 episodes of the show this year to it, promotional push and all, the network will go for at least half a Season. Can`t be worse than Valor and Dynasty.   

[Bessie]

Thanks, @Wayward Son.  That makes sense.

ETA: And @Aeryn13  

Edited October 23, 2017 by Bessie

[legendinmyownmind]

55 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I'd also put money on Dean witnessing the father of Patience being a real MEENIE! to her also and as part and parcel of Dean's latest lesson with Sam hitting him with the "I WAS Jack, so I know what it feels like" stick, too-either before they separate or soon after. My money is on before, just so we know who's getting the "lesson" in this one.

Ah, poor widdle Dean.  Don't worry, I'm sure he'll get lots of sympathy and ego-bolstering from both Jody and Missouri.

[catrox14]

47 minutes ago, legendinmyownmind said:

Don't worry, I'm sure he'll get lots of sympathy and ego-bolstering from both Jody and Missouri.

I suspect Jody will offer comfort and support in her own way as that is what she does for everyone.

But Missouri? That's doubtful based on how she treated him the last time we saw her with him on screen in s1. I mean there is no precedence for Missouri being nice and offering sympathy to Dean but with Jody there is precendence.

Edited October 23, 2017 by catrox14

[ILoveReading]

http://tvline.com/2017/10/25/supernatural-spoilers-season-13-dean-jack/

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TVLINE | Jack is quite powerful, but is there a part of him that’s afraid of Dean?
Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Again, Dean’s seen a lot. With the loss of his mom, the loss of Castiel, he’s really at the end of his rope, I feel like. So as much as Jack has these powers, he’s still a little kid, and having someone [around] like that is quite scary.

This is what I don't understand.  Last season Jack refused to let Kelly die, and brainwashed Cas to make sure he was born with his powers fully intact.    He was defending before he was even born.

Dean wants to kill him.  Shouldn't his survival instinct be kicking in?  Based on what we knew of the character from last season shouldn't he be going after the person trying to kill him.

I feel like with Jack the show wants to ignore and/or pretend the Lucifer side doesn't exist, becasue they've done a complete 180 with the character since last season.

[catrox14]

47 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

http://tvline.com/2017/10/25/supernatural-spoilers-season-13-dean-jack/

This is what I don't understand.  Last season Jack refused to let Kelly die, and brainwashed Cas to make sure he was born with his powers fully intact.    He was defending before he was even born.

Dean wants to kill him.  Shouldn't his survival instinct be kicking in?  Based on what we knew of the character from last season shouldn't he be going after the person trying to kill him.

I feel like with Jack the show wants to ignore and/or pretend the Lucifer side doesn't exist, becasue they've done a complete 180 with the character since last season.

 

And there is this.

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TVLINE | Does Jack have any sort of psychic bond or connection to Lucifer? Is that one of his abilities?
Anything’s possible. Not at this point, that I know of. What I do know is that he and Castiel do have an otherworldly, profound connection. Their connection, I think, will transcend worlds, and what’s really cool about this season is the introduction of other worlds.

Then it's all Jack who powered up Cas and wouldn't let Kelly die if he's immune to Lucifer's abilities to communicate with him. What?

This SL is going to be so bad for both Dean and Sam. Dean will be blamed because Mean Old Human With No Supernatural Powers Winchester scares Luci's Spawn and that's why he'll go dark side and Sam for his part will at least fare no worse then looking like a fool, which isn't great but he can't be blamed for being mean.

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“There’s some nice moments coming up where I can see myself in Sam, and then there’s also moments where I see myself in Dean,” the actor shares.

Gee, let me think...what would Jack see in himself with Dean.....what will it be...hmmm..? I'm sure it will be anger and violence and with Sam he'll see the sadness of thinking he's dirty and tainted. Sigh.

[Aeryn13]

They are definitely making him too fluffy. There is zero mystery right now on him going dark. Someone evil manipulating him into doing evil because he is painfully naive, sure, but that is different than having any kind of dark side. I`m also baffled by this urge to retroactively saintify Kelly Kline. She wasn`t evil but she wasn`t pure perfection either. Yet right now they play it as if Jack is pure because he is just her son and has got nothing from Lucifer. 

Jack being afraid of Dean is ludicrous, if you get down to it. What is Dean gonna truly do at this point that would be even remotely dangerous to Jack? 

When Amara was a little girl and her future self talked to her from the mirror, it was clear that her child-self hadn`t yet accessed all the memories/conscienceness of adult!Amara so the mirror image signified that adult!Amara existed, just as a bit of a different entity. So that might be kinda comparable to Jack. Why he was more cognizant in the womb, I don`t know. However, child!Amara could be chilling in one moment, sweet the next but overall more dangerous. Jack looks like he just wants to pet a bunny.    

 

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Although the elder Winchester would like nothing more than to wipe Satan’s spawn off the face of Earth, the two share “the commonality of loss,” notes new series regular Alexander Calvert, who plays Jack. After all, Dean recently lost his mom Mary and his friend Castiel, while Jack never even had the chance to get to know his chosen father Cas before he died. “That’s a big similarity that both Jack and Dean have,”

Since episode 4 as per the summary has all of them visiting a grief councellor and dealing with grief, I`m guessing this will be the episode to thematically bring this up. And if there is another big shift when Cas comes back, well, that is gonna be at the end of ep 5, with them interacting in ep 6. That is not a long time.

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What I do know is that he and Castiel do have an otherworldly, profound connection. Their connection, I think, will transcend worlds, and what’s really cool about this season is the introduction of other worlds.

He communicates with Cas during episodes 3-5? An otherwordly connection means something mystical so the new Dean and Amara, kinda?

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Gee, let me think...what would Jack see in himself with Dean.....what will it be...hmmm..? I'm sure it will be anger and violence and with Sam he'll see the sadness of thinking he's dirty and tainted. Sigh.

I`m guessing ep 4 will have a variation of "my mommy is dead and I`m sad about it" in which Jack and Dean will share. Probably with a dose of Cas grief thrown in. 

Right now I find it more unbelievable that he will see himself in Sam. On Sam`end, sure, it will be "I had powers and an evil destiny, too, and struggled with my dakrness." Now Jack has powers, it is debatable if he has a preordained evil destiny, his coming into being was more a freak accident and now evil forces would like to make use of that. But he most certainly doesn`t struggle with his darkness because he has no darkness to struggle with.

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Dean will be blamed because Mean Old Human With No Supernatural Powers Winchester scares Luci's Spawn and that's why he'll go dark side and Sam for his part will at least fare no worse then looking like a fool, which isn't great but he can't be blamed for being mean.

It sounds like his bond with Cas supercedes everything else so that will likely take precedence from episode 6 on. Jack doesn`t have enough time to go even slightly darkside until then. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

9 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

why he was more cognizant in the womb, I don`t know.

He even tells Sam that he had to grow up because him mom said the world was dangerous.  The means he's capable of making complex decisions.  That' shows he's not as naive or as clueless as the show is trying to pretend.

It can't be a nature vs nurture debate if the show ignores his nature side.  Saintly McSainterton characters are just as one note as mustache twirling Villains.

If it was any other show, I would almost wonder if Jack was running a long con.  But these writers aren't capable of a layered character, let alone a layered storyline.

Edited October 25, 2017 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 

And there is this.

Then it's all Jack who powered up Cas and wouldn't let Kelly die if he's immune to Lucifer's abilities to communicate with him. What?

This SL is going to be so bad for both Dean and Sam. Dean will be blamed because Mean Old Human With No Supernatural Powers Winchester scares Luci's Spawn and that's why he'll go dark side and Sam for his part will at least fare no worse then looking like a fool, which isn't great but he can't be blamed for being mean.

Gee, let me think...what would Jack see in himself with Dean.....what will it be...hmmm..? I'm sure it will be anger and violence and with Sam he'll see the sadness of thinking he's dirty and tainted. Sigh.

Heh. Well at least it's only a profound connection and not a profound bond.

And of course anything bad that comes of Jack will be mean old Dean's fault, and nothing at all to do with being the spawn of Satan.

Have I mentioned lately how much I loathe Dabb and his crew?

[Wayward Son]

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Have I mentioned lately how much I loathe Dabb and his crew?

Count me in the loathing Dabb and his crew club.

 

Although I hate them for what they’re doing to Castiel. And if there is a deep connection between Castiel and Jack I’ll eat my hat if it doesn’t only exist to make Cas the blame for dark Jack. 

[gonzosgirrl]

35 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Count me in the loathing Dabb and his crew club.

 

Although I hate them for what they’re doing to Castiel. And if there is a deep connection between Castiel and Jack I’ll eat my hat if it doesn’t only exist to make Cas the blame for dark Jack. 

I'm 100% sure at least one of us is going to be justified if blame is laid on anyone besides where it belongs: on Lucifer or Jack himself. I'm also 100% sure if blame is gonna be laid it will be on anyone but Sam. Not that it is Sam's fault - yes, he stopped Dean from shooting him, but we know that he couldn't have killed him that way, or any other way at this point. But however this shakes out, Sam's not coming out smelling like anything but candy flavored roses. This is Sam's season of redemption and justification for S8. Mark my words (and I'll eat them publicly if proven wrong).

[Wayward Son]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm 100% sure at least one of us is going to be justified if blame is laid on anyone besides where it belongs: on Lucifer or Jack himself. I'm also 100% sure if blame is gonna be laid it will be on anyone but Sam. Not that it is Sam's fault - yes, he stopped Dean from shooting him, but we know that he couldn't have killed him that way, or any other way at this point. But however this shakes out, Sam's not coming out smelling like anything but candy flavored roses. This is Sam's season of redemption and justification for S8. Mark my words (and I'll eat them publicly if proven wrong).

I’m gonna reply in bitch vs Jerk just to be safe. 

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

If it was any other show, I would almost wonder if Jack was running a long con.  But these writers aren't capable of a layered character, let alone a layered storyline.

So, so true!

[ILoveReading]

Watching the preview I really hope its not another kid has powers he can't control ep.  But since these writers are about as subtle as a sledgehammer I'm guessing that is where it's headed.

[gonzosgirrl]

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Watching the preview I really hope its not another kid has powers he can't control ep.  But since these writers are about as subtle as a sledgehammer I'm guessing that is where it's headed.

Let me guess... they'll have to make a decision about dealing with him harshly, and it will prove to be wrong.

[catrox14]

Thoughts on Sam's trajectory.

 

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

From the Purge thread, @Wayward Son

reminded of the comments Sam made to Dean about if he was still possessed by Gadreel that he would be worth killing.

Good grief, show. Can we find something new for Sam?

Is his entire identity going to be built upon his worry that he is still a monster like for the rest of the show??

I think that explains to a degree why we wasn't all out to kill Gadreel in s9 per se by the end.  He saw himself in Gadreel.

So I think I'm taking the tack from here on out, that Sam will ALWAYS see himself in a monster of some kind and the problem is there is a fine line between Sam having compassion for a monster and empathizing vs him being a narcissist who is only able to find a monster valuable if he seems himself in that monster. Maybe he never saw himself in Benny or Emma so that's why he didn't have compassion for them? 

Hmmm. I gotta think more on this.

I'm really wondering where this is going with Sam, and Jack. I don't think it's just because of Sam and Dean angsting and being at odds. Or at least I hope that's not all it its.

I'm thinking they may take this a couple of directions.

-- If Jack can use his powers and still be good, that will somehow FINALLY MAYBE give Sam enough faith or absolution in his own mind that he can FINALLY stop being worried that his dirty or a monster. I know Sam says things like "I know how that feels to think you don't fit in",  but it doesn't seem to be in past tense that much. IMO, Sam has major unresolved issues in this area. But that's not that interesting of a plot. So Sam wakes up and thinks OKAY I'm not dirty and I'm not bad, so yay lets' hunt? Ehhh.

I'm going with a different route. I am going to predict the following. I'm going on record with this.

Part of the argument in s4 when Ruby said it was never the demon blood but was always just Sam. So what if it's revealed that it was never the demon blood that allowed Sam to see the visions in s1 and s2 nor exorcise demons in s4, that it's just his gift. I can totally see Dabb doing that. I feel like there has to be more to this for Sam than just him relating to Jack.

They could put Dean and Castiel on opposite sides and destroy their friendship via Jack which I wouldn't be surprised but it's not the same as the "MY BROTHER SAM MIGHT BE BAD" plot that keeps coming up time after time after time.

Right now they are setting up Dean to take the fall if Jack goes dark side because he was mean to Jack and didn't believe in him, but truly, that's not where the real drama lies. I think they will put Dean in the position to see Sam as a monster again which is why they are bringing up 'Dad told you to put a bullet in me".The problem with that is if Dean sticks with his hunter instincts on Jack...and Dean is rarely wrong about these things, ...that means Jack has to go dark side. But if they don't want Sam to be wrong on Jack and they want Dean's apparent upcoming turnaround on Jack, then the only real answer is for Jack to run off and refuse to use his powers for anyone, kind of like Jesse. 

If Dean accepts that Jack isn't a monster, then Sam will feel like he can go ahead and use his own latent power to open a rift himself and whether Dean will stop Sam from doing so. That's my SWAG on where this is headed eventually.

[ILoveReading]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Thoughts on Sam's trajectory.

 

I'm really wondering where this is going with Sam, and Jack. I don't think it's just because of Sam and Dean angsting and being at odds. Or at least I hope that's not all it its.

I'm thinking they may take this a couple of directions.

-- If Jack can use his powers and still be good, that will somehow FINALLY MAYBE give Sam enough faith or absolution in his own mind that he can FINALLY stop being worried that his dirty or a monster. I know Sam says things like "I know how that feels to think you don't fit in",  but it doesn't seem to be in past tense that much. IMO, Sam has major unresolved issues in this area. But that's not that interesting of a plot. So Sam wakes up and thinks OKAY I'm not dirty and I'm not bad, so yay lets' hunt? Ehhh.

I'm going with a different route. I am going to predict the following. I'm going on record with this.

Part of the argument in s4 when Ruby said it was never the demon blood but was always just Sam. So what if it's revealed that it was never the demon blood that allowed Sam to see the visions in s1 and s2 nor exorcise demons in s4, that it's just his gift. I can totally see Dabb doing that. I feel like there has to be more to this for Sam than just him relating to Jack.

They could put Dean and Castiel on opposite sides and destroy their friendship via Jack which I wouldn't be surprised but it's not the same as the "MY BROTHER SAM MIGHT BE BAD" plot that keeps coming up time after time after time.

Right now they are setting up Dean to take the fall if Jack goes dark side because he was mean to Jack and didn't believe in him, but truly, that's not where the real drama lies. I think they will put Dean in the position to see Sam as a monster again which is why they are bringing up 'Dad told you to put a bullet in me".The problem with that is if Dean sticks with his hunter instincts on Jack...and Dean is rarely wrong about these things, ...that means Jack has to go dark side. But if they don't want Sam to be wrong on Jack and they want Dean's apparent upcoming turnaround on Jack, then the only real answer is for Jack to run off and refuse to use his powers for anyone, kind of like Jesse. 

If Dean accepts that Jack isn't a monster, then Sam will feel like he can go ahead and use his own latent power to open a rift himself and whether Dean will stop Sam from doing so. That's my SWAG on where this is headed eventually.

I really hope this isn't the direction their going becasue I think this whole storyline is over played.  It seemed like Sam made his peace with this a long time ago.  I have zero desire to see Sam have powers again.  It's also over played.

The problem with this trajectory is that it once again puts all the burdens on Dean's shoulders.  (Not saying your saying this Catrox, just how it would come across to me.)  That Sam can't accept himself until Dean does.  That's completely unfair to Dean.  Sam needs to learn to make his own decisions without adding a but....  If Sam has powers and wants to use them.  Use them. 

Not to mention, Dean's already proven time and time again that he accepts Sam.  That there is nothing Sam could do that Dean won't forgive.  It's just going to make me wonder why Dean even bothers trying.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I really hope this isn't the direction their going becasue I think this whole storyline is over played.  It seemed like Sam made his peace with this a long time ago.  I have zero desire to see Sam have powers again.  It's also over played.

The problem with this trajectory is that it once again puts all the burdens on Dean's shoulders.  (Not saying your saying this Catrox, just how it would come across to me.)  That Sam can't accept himself until Dean does.  That's completely unfair to Dean.  Sam needs to learn to make his own decisions without adding a but....  If Sam has powers and wants to use them.  Use them. 

Not to mention, Dean's already proven time and time again that he accepts Sam.  That there is nothing Sam could do that Dean won't forgive.  It's just going to make me wonder why Dean even bothers trying.

They kind of already are putting that burden on Dean though already by planting the idea that if Jack goes dark side, it's his fault. Sam said the words. They put the burden on Dean when he said he would kill Jack if it was necessary.

Part of the plot of Sam becoming General Winchester was that Dean had to let him lead and to do that they hobbled Dean physically. Part of the plot of Sam saving the world in S5 was that Dean had to learn to let Sam go and accept him doing this act of sacrifice. That he had to trust Sam and let him grow up.

I can see it coming out that Sam was just afraid to access his powers because Dean called him a monster back in s4. I just see it coming. I hope I'm wrong, that's for sure! Dean formally saying that he'll accept Sam no matter what seems like it's right in line with the previous lessons Dean had to learn.

[Aeryn13]

From spoilers so far, I`m tentatively optimistic (I know, being optimistic about this show is like being on the Titanic, seeing the iceberg and hoping for the best anyway) that they won`t revisit Sam having powers. Mainly because they are now exploring super-uber-powered Jack and Cas is gonna come back fully powered (or with more powers) and then in 13.B Michael will be the new villain and he is mighty powerful. So the powers area is kinda overcrowded at the moment. 

They seem to use this part with Sam right now to explain his position with Jack some more.

We also know Dean will come around on Jack, IMO likely before Jack goes beigeside, if he even does that. So undoubtedly the sucky part about that will be lessons and apologizing and all that usually terribly-written crap but hopefully they can get this done and over with. 

I`m not sure what Dean does once this grief thing that goes nowhere is over. We know Michael is not interested in him. At first, Dabb said, but there is nothing saying he will ever be. Too bad, it would be the only storyline I could get interested in.     

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I really hope this isn't the direction their going becasue I think this whole storyline is over played.  It seemed like Sam made his peace with this a long time ago.  I have zero desire to see Sam have powers again.  It's also over played.

The problem with this trajectory is that it once again puts all the burdens on Dean's shoulders.  (Not saying your saying this Catrox, just how it would come across to me.)  That Sam can't accept himself until Dean does.  That's completely unfair to Dean.  Sam needs to learn to make his own decisions without adding a but....  If Sam has powers and wants to use them.  Use them. 

Not to mention, Dean's already proven time and time again that he accepts Sam.  That there is nothing Sam could do that Dean won't forgive.  It's just going to make me wonder why Dean even bothers trying.

It's definitely overplayed but considering that Jared apparently called the writers to gleefully thank them for bringing back the storyline I'm guessing it will go on for most of the season.

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

We know Michael is not interested in him. At first, Dabb said, but there is nothing saying he will ever be. Too bad, it would be the only storyline I could get interested in.     

Right now Michael is known as the big bad in the alt world that killed alt Lucifer. Considering Dabb's hardon for all things Lucifer I wouldn't put it past him to redeem him while making Michael the evil one thus tainting Dean's true vessel connection and reinforcing the born killer box that they want to pigeonhole him into.

[catrox14]

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/10/supernatural-premiere-jared-padalecki-season-13-episode-1-lost-and-found-recap-spoilers-cw-1201886870/

This is from 13.01, but I think I'll put it here because it's kind of referring to the whole Jack.Dean.Sam arc IMO.

 

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As seen in the episode, Sam is far more willing to see Jack as an innocent, despite his evil parentage. Dean doesn’t, given their track record with Lucifer. Besides, he’s also dealing with a crisis of faith now that his prayers have seemingly been ignored by God/Chuck.

“I’m trying to play Sam as if he feels like a bit of a connection,” said Padalecki. “We explore that a bit more, and I really enjoy the way it kind of ramps up a little bit as the season carries on, where Sam doesn’t want to be wrong, but he doesn’t want to be careless if this kid, if this nephilim being is going to be evil. He doesn’t want to just be blind to it, but he certainly does see a bit of a chance for redemption. He wants Jack to be good to see the same redemption that I think Sam seeks himself.”

So Sam still after multiple sacrifices thinks he needs more redemption?

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Ross Leming added, “Yes, he’s the son of Satan, but he’s also the son of humanity. And so we don’t actually know ourselves… where he’s going to go in terms of what his destiny is. But what has led us as writers to do is to start redefining what is good and evil anyway. I think this season will be a little more nuanced. Yes Crowley was evil, but playful. But I think now we’re going to have the ultimate evil, may be not so ultimate. They’ll be shades of what really evil means in mankind terms.”

Sigh. Really BL, you think redefining Lucifer level evil is the way to go.  UGH I HATE THIS STORYLINE.

What are they even saying here? I don't think they are saying anything at all. What?

[catrox14]

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“We find out that the nephilim lore is that the nephilim becomes more powerful than the angel who sired it,” Padalecki said in an interview with press for a screening of the premiere. “In this case that angel is an archangel, Lucifer, and it’s another playing with Joseph Campbell’s archetpyes, the ultimately powerful being who doesn’t really know how to – going back to Yoda and Luke Skywalker – just trying to figure out how to even access [the powers] much less hone them. And in his particular instance, it’s almost a knee-jerk reaction. Early on, Sam and Dean are leading the charge because they also don’t want to walk down the street and go ‘Hey, be nice to this kid. He’s the son of Satan. Don’t piss him off.’ So the situation requires some tact and some covert ops but we will obviously see him be influenced by other factions.”

 

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It’s also a loss for Jack, whose mother taught him to look to Castiel as a father figure while Jack was still in utero.

“He learned English by hearing Kelly (Courtney Ford), Kelly spoke to him all the time,” said Buckner. “One of the messages that she gave him was that Castiel will be your guardian, because Castiel really took over their defense and got them away from bad situations and Castiel was really there for them, and he promised Kelly that he would make sure no harm came to Jack. So somehow all of this got transmitted into Jack’s DNA and he’s left with the imprint that Castiel is his de facto father.”

Ross-Leming said, “He’s socially and chronologically naïve and new to our world, but he also has this ancient wisdom that I don’t think even he knows he has. He has a knowledge that’s sort of imprinted in his essence, which starts to unfold for him.”

Naive does not mean NOT EVIL. That just means there is a lack of wisdom and judgment. 

[gonzosgirrl]

57 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/10/supernatural-premiere-jared-padalecki-season-13-episode-1-lost-and-found-recap-spoilers-cw-1201886870/

This is from 13.01, but I think I'll put it here because it's kind of referring to the whole Jack.Dean.Sam arc IMO.

 

So Sam still after multiple sacrifices thinks he needs more redemption?

Sigh. Really BL, you think redefining Lucifer level evil is the way to go.  UGH I HATE THIS STORYLINE.

What are they even saying here? I don't think they are saying anything at all. What?

My interpretation? We'll see how many new, young, fangirls/fanboys Alex brings in and react accordingly, regardless of whether or not the story serves Supernatural or not.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

My interpretation? We'll see how many new, young, fangirls/fanboys Alex brings in and react accordingly, regardless of whether or not the story serves Supernatural or not.

This makes sense.

[trxr4kids]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

What are they even saying here? I don't think they are saying anything at all. What?

 

44 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

My interpretation? We'll see how many new, young, fangirls/fanboys Alex brings in and react accordingly, regardless of whether or not the story serves Supernatural or not.

It's hard to understand anything that they say when they're obviously talking outta their asses. SMH

[Aeryn13]

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My interpretation? We'll see how many new, young, fangirls/fanboys Alex brings in and react accordingly, regardless of whether or not the story serves Supernatural or not.

Which shows they really don`t know anything. They could have easily made him more conflicted and with more of an edge than pure and innocent like a baby and it wouldn`t have been a detriment to his popularity. I mean, it`s not like characters like that are never crowd-pleasers. They are more often than they are not. Meanwhile, the wounded baby is a trope that works well at first and generates the "awww, let me feed them cookies and hot cocoa" reactions but it`s ten times as hard to keep that interesting than when you start out with an edge in the first place.     

But the interview is just one more in a long line of "we are making this shit up as we go along". 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

Watching the preview for next week, I don't get Sam. 

What, now that Dean is back under his thumb Sam is suddenly willing to leave Jack alone and not shove him in Dean's face?

[Aeryn13]

Well, that is perfectly normal for them. If Dean is obedient enough, he gets a treat. Or something. 

I just hope this horrid episode marks the end of the carricature writing. If Dean is nicer to Jack now, hopefully he gets left alone more. And hopefully he does better actionwise as well. The Western episode hopefully has some shooting stuff, not just silly jokes about Western themes. They already did that in the Season 6 episode. 

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Well, that is perfectly normal for them. If Dean is obedient enough, he gets a treat. Or something. 

I just hope this horrid episode marks the end of the carricature writing. If Dean is nicer to Jack now, hopefully he gets left alone more. And hopefully he does better actionwise as well. The Western episode hopefully has some shooting stuff, not just silly jokes about Western themes. They already did that in the Season 6 episode. 

The western ep is written by the Perez.  I doubt anything good happens to or for Dean in it. 

[Myrelle]

I expect nothing good for Dean now until after the hiatus, if then.

I'm expecting more ValiumDean, DoormatDean, Deansel in Distress(who it looks like we're getting next week from the promo) and Inept/"Inert"Dean(as Bucklemming mentioned in one of their interviews as regards Dean) from here on out and until after the spin-off episode airs.

Having been able to watch the first three episodes was not even something that I thought would be doable for me. That was all thanks to the Ackting apparently, though.

I knew this was coming. It was just a matter of when.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Myrelle

[gonzosgirrl]

Is it the next episode that Cas reunites with Dean and Sam? Here's my not at all fearless prediction: Cas being alive is treated with 100% more joy and recognition than Dean being alive in 12x01 was.

I.E., more than the ten words combined between Sam and Cas's reactions, never to be mentioned again.

Now that we don't have yelly/mean grieving Dean for Sam and Jack to react to, I expect we'll get a lot more of driving-the-car Dean and gone-to-pick-up-a-waitress Dean, not to mention Dean's-not-here-and-we-don't-really-care-why-Dean.

[DittyDotDot]

9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Is it the next episode that Cas reunites with Dean and Sam?

I think it's the one after that--13x06, Tombstone--but I'm not a 100 percent on that.

The next one is the one where Billie is supposed to show up again. I predict that might not be actual Billy though. The preview has Sam acting strange and Dean noticing, so I wonder if it's not all that straightforward in the end?

Edited November 3, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

Bringing this over for discussion ease.

Yeah I don't get Sam here either.  Who is babysitting Jack? Steve Yockey wrote this and I thought he did a good job with balancing Sam and Dean in his two episodes last season. Maybe the preview is just leaving out other aspects to explain Sam's attitude? 

 

[Wayward Son]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Bringing this over for discussion ease.

Yeah I don't get Sam here either.  Who is babysitting Jack? Steve Yockey wrote this and I thought he did a good job with balancing Sam and Dean in his two episodes last season. Maybe the preview is just leaving out other aspects to explain Sam's attitude? 

 

 

I have no clue about an inverse explanation, but honestly I imagine the writing room was like

 

Dabb: "Oh shit we don't want to use up all of Alexander/Jack's 13 episodes this early in the season... We need him written out of your episode Steve"

Yockey: "But Andrew Sam just insisted Jack needs to come with them in Meredith's episode...."

Dabb: "I don't care... We need him for later in the season just write him out!" 

[DittyDotDot]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Yeah I don't get Sam here either.  Who is babysitting Jack? Steve Yockey wrote this and I thought he did a good job with balancing Sam and Dean in his two episodes last season. Maybe the preview is just leaving out other aspects to explain Sam's attitude? 

Like I said, it may not be as straightforward as it seems? Since Dean says, "What is going on with you?" I'm guessing Sam is either hexed or not himself in some way. 

As to Jack, we know they go looking for him at some point, so maybe this is the episode where he goes missing or runs off? But, again, if that's not really Sam, then maybe Sam is babysitting Jack?

Edited November 3, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Aeryn13]

Jack is with them and Cas in episode 6 so he seems to disappear at the end of 6.

I`m going with plot convenience as well. I bet Jack just stays at the bunker with Netflix. Now that Dean has bowed down, Sam seems to see no need anymore to force interactions to get his way. 

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I have no clue about an inverse explanation, but honestly I imagine the writing room was like

 

Dabb: "Oh shit we don't want to use up all of Alexander/Jack's 13 episodes this early in the season... We need him written out of your episode Steve"

Yockey: "But Andrew Sam just insisted Jack needs to come with them in Meredith's episode...."

Dabb: "I don't care... We need him for later in the season just write him out!" 

This makes about as much sense as anything else

[ILoveReading]

33 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Jack is with them and Cas in episode 6 so he seems to disappear at the end of 6.

I`m going with plot convenience as well. I bet Jack just stays at the bunker with Netflix. Now that Dean has bowed down, Sam seems to see no need anymore to force interactions to get his way. 

We see that Dean is making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.  So I'm guessing he's back on maid duty as well.

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Jack is with them and Cas in episode 6 so he seems to disappear at the end of 6.

I`m going with plot convenience as well. I bet Jack just stays at the bunker with Netflix. Now that Dean has bowed down, Sam seems to see no need anymore to force interactions to get his way. 

Yeah, I forgot about the episode 6 reunion, but if Sam is not Sam then...

Wait, wait, maybe it's not Sam who is not Sam, but maybe Dean gets dosed by a djinn? That could explain Sam not acting like Sam and it could be Jack is on a hunt with all of them? 

ETA: This is the episode with Billie, right? That could also explain her not being dead if it's all in Dean's head?

Edited November 3, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Wait, wait, maybe it's not Sam who is not Sam, but maybe Dean gets dosed by a djinn? That could explain Sam not acting like Sam and it could be Jack is on a hunt with all of them? 

I don`t think Sam isn`t really Sam. Dean`s question could mean all kinds of things, including something rather lame. It wouldn`t surprise me if for some weird reason Sam senses that Cas is back and Dean has zip. Then at the end of the episode Cas rejoins them. Or Sam has a connection with Billie or any other random thing. 

Quote

We see that Dean is making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.  So I'm guessing he's back on maid duty as well.

It`s obviously the beginning of the episode so not for Cas then. Fingers crossed he makes it for himself and it`s a random set-up to deliver exposition. I really do not want to see that maid stuff back again.

[DittyDotDot]

I just realized this wasn't the regular spoiler and speculation thread...moving my response, carry on with the bitterness. 

[ILoveReading]

ts been established that Dean can recognize this his family members aren't themselves when they're nice to him.  So that might be why he's suspicious of Sam. 

[Wayward Son]

9 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

ts been established that Dean can recognize this his family members aren't themselves when they're nice to him.  So that might be why he's suspicious of Sam. 

This Is actually true of both brothers. Kevin recognised that the demons working for Crowley weren’t Sam and Dean because they were far too nice and civil to be the brothers ;)

[ILoveReading]

23 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

This Is actually true of both brothers. Kevin recognised that the demons working for Crowley weren’t Sam and Dean because they were far too nice and civil to be the brothers ;)

Will respond in bitch/jerk since its not really spoilers

[Myrelle]

Quote

Although I wouldnt' be surprised if Jack does something sketchy and Dean defends him and Sam questions him, so that if one the remote chance Jack goes evil Sam still ends up on the right side. 

Brought over from the bitch vs jerk thread.

So reports out of the last convention had Jensen saying that from now to about ep. 10 there will be a change for the better in the Jack/Dean relationship while Sam and Dean will flip flop on that. I think I read that Singer called it the old switcheroo which made me laugh because with this set-up, I'm thinking that in the showrunners'/producers minds no one can be right or wrong because both characters will then be both right and wrong. What makes me laugh is that they are so clueless about this fandom if they truly believe that it could be that easy. ;-)

I am wondering what they're going to do with the spawn after episode 10, though. The kid was only signed on for a limited number of episodes-11 or 13, maybe-so maybe Lucifer gets his hands on him until the end of the season when Jack will come back to save everyone after doing some serious soul searching, of course.

I think at this point, it's a given that they will keep both character and actor on for either the mother ship or the spin-off.

And I'm curious as heck about the Js contract talks. Has anyone heard anything new, because all I've heard is crickets. I know that Dabb and co. have acted like they'd like the show to go on forever in an earlier interview, but that's to be expected.

IDK, but I'm feeling like the leads aren't on board with a 23 episode s14 at all, and that might be the big sticking point.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Myrelle

[DittyDotDot]

35 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

And I'm curious as heck about the Js contract talks. Has anyone heard anything new, because all I've heard is crickets. I know that Dabb and co. have acted like they'd like the show to go on forever in an earlier interview, but that's to be expected.

IDK, but I'm feeling like the leads aren't on board with a 23 episode s14 at all, and that might be the big sticking point.

There has been a lot of specutlation, but as far as I know, there's been no official word. They usually sign for the next season--or the next two seasons--in August or September and they've been saying they want to get to 300 episodes, so my feeling is they're already signed for S14 and the rest is up to the network at this point. However, I think beyond S14 will either be a shortened season or S14 will be the final one. 

But, like I said, there's been no official word as far as I know. It would be a great question for a con-goer to ask, though.

Edited November 5, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Res]

14 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

So reports out of the last convention had Jensen saying that from now to about ep. 10 there will be a change for the better in the Jack/Dean relationship while Sam and Dean will flip flop on that. I think I read that Singer called it the old switcheroo which made me laugh because with this set-up, I'm thinking that in the showrunners'/producers minds no one can be right or wrong because both characters will then be both right and wrong. What makes me laugh is that they are so clueless about this fandom if they truly believe that it could be that easy. ;-)

I am wondering what they're going to do with the spawn after episode 10, though. The kid was only signed on for a limited number of episodes-11 or 13, maybe-so maybe Lucifer gets his hands on him until the end of the season when Jack will come back to save everyone after doing some serious soul searching, of course.

I think at this point, it's a given that they will keep both character and actor on for either the mother ship or the spin-off.

And I'm curious as heck about the Js contract talks. Has anyone heard anything new, because all I've heard is crickets. I know that Dabb and co. have acted like they'd like the show to go on forever in an earlier interview, but that's to be expected.

IDK, but I'm feeling like the leads aren't on board with a 23 episode s14 at all, and that might be the big sticking point.

I'm sure that the showrunners/PTB are completely clueless and in a completely different world from us based on several comments. This is just one of many that show how ridiculously out of touch they are.

I really don't care what they do with the spawn anymore than I care what they do with Lucifer or Mary at this point. I'm okay with them all going over to the spin-off because that way I won't have to watch them anymore just to see Dean.

I am also really curious about the contract talks but quite honestly I'm in favor of the UO that the Js don't sign past the 300 ep. I'd rather have a kickass story line for them to go out on rather than have what's going on, the systematic destruction of show lore and characters, continue just to keep uncaring, lazy PTB/showrunners/writers in the money. They've already damaged everything and everyone that I used to love in the show so much that I barely recognize them anymore. I'm honestly not surprised that Sam and Dean aren't winning character polls anymore because of these lazy, uncaring a-holes. 

Pardon my bitterness rant. Sorry. 

Not sorry.

Let our favorite actors move on to a show that actually appreciates them and their talents. 

[catrox14]

moved to B v J for safety. I hope that's the right place lOL

Edited November 5, 2017 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

35 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I am wondering what they're going to do with the spawn after episode 10, though. The kid was only signed on for a limited number of episodes-11 or 13, maybe-so maybe Lucifer gets his hands on him until the end of the season when Jack will come back to save everyone after doing some serious soul searching, of course.

Sorry, got sidetracked again...it sounds like the boys go looking for the Spawn in a couple episodes, so I'm thinking he either runs off on his own or he's kidnapped by either Asmodeus or some other player. I'm not sure Lucifer will make it back to our universe until mid-season, but the episode description where Cass and Lucifer make a deal for Jack makes me think that Lucifer doesn't have him. I can't remember the exactly wordage, but it sounded like they needed to work together for Jack.