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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

catrox14

By catrox14
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Casseiopeia
Casseiopeia

The caption should be..."Dean looking for his dropped storyline"

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So far she's chosen an institution that actively tried to murder her children over said children, Lucifer's kid over her sons, an old man (Not!Bobby) over her sons, and an entire world of strangers ov

ahrtee
ahrtee

Also non-snarky:  I know I was hoping that the story would focus on Dean/Michael and not Sam learning to be a leader, Jack learning to be human, and Mary/Bobby.  I was hoping that we would get to actu

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I guess since there aren't any angels he needs to look elsewhere for his army. 

Why does he even need one? He's the only archangel left in the world - he's practically invincible.

I'm gonna go with the idea that Jensen was just screwing with the interviewer and made up the most ludicrous thing he could think of on the spot.

41 minutes ago, SueB said:

I suspect the BMOL stole the egg back when they raided the Bunker. 

Why/when would Cas have taken it to the Bunker? He was on run with Kelly.  They are going to have to do some kind of flashback/exposition/ret-con - I suppose that's as good a guess as any. Unless you were at the sneak peek? LOL!

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

https://dimples-of-discontent.tumblr.com/post/178906045466/ibelieveinthelittletreetopper

Just when you think Dabb can't get any worse, he takes it as personal challenge every time. 

Michael's mission is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. 

He's supposed to be a powerful arch angel who can wipe out anything or anyone with a snap of his fingers so why does he even need and army....I can't even think about it without laughing.   This just reinforces my belief that Dabb forgot that Michael has powers and Jensen had to remind him. 

I was going to say Dabb put about five seconds into planning the Michael story but I think even that is giving him to much credit.

Can we get a new showrunner?

Aaaaaaaaaaaand the hits just keep coming.

+ 1,000 to this post.

Edited by Myrelle
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Lastcall

Lastcall

52 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Why does he even need one? He's the only archangel left in the world - he's practically invincible.

Because Sam’s army has to have something to fight. They have to show Sam is the better leader and his army is so badass that they can kill more monsters in a few weeks than Dean could in his entire career (British Men of Letters 2.0). 

So after all the latest spoilers I have a prediction on how this season goes. Michael uses Lucifer’s vessel, Sam’s army destroys Michaels, the empty becomes involved in the war, Heaven begins to falter, Sam kills Michael with either the lance or the spear of destiny. The season finale is souls falling out of heaven and the empty as season 15’s big bad (taking the form of Mark Pellegrino.)

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tessathereaper

tessathereaper

(edited)
6 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I assume Michael needs an army to kill off the human race. I guess he could just walk around snapping his fingers. Maybe even to a beat :)

I'd like that.  Maybe to "Stayin' Alive"(you know for the irony:)) "You can tell by the way I use my walk I'm a woman's man, no time talk...." snappin' people away with each step. :)

Edited by tessathereaper
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

22 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I assume Michael needs an army to kill off the human race. I guess he could just walk around snapping his fingers. Maybe even to a beat :)

Maybe he could seek out five gemstones in order to achieve the ultimate finger-snap. Nah, that would only kill 50%.

Seriously though, vampires? Still trying to wrap my head around that. Maybe, if I squint hard enough, I can see how they can be considered 'pure' in that their bloodlust is 'honest'. But as an army? They aren't the most efficient of killers, and they themselves are pretty easily killed once you know how. I wonder if they'll sparkle?

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Myrelle

Myrelle

53 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

I'd like that.  Maybe to "Stayin' Alive"(you know for the irony:)) "You can tell by the way I use my walk I'm a woman's man, no time talk...." snappin' people away with each step. :)

 

34 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe he could seek out five gemstones in order to achieve the ultimate finger-snap. Nah, that would only kill 50%.

Seriously though, vampires? Still trying to wrap my head around that. Maybe, if I squint hard enough, I can see how they can be considered 'pure' in that their bloodlust is 'honest'. But as an army? They aren't the most efficient of killers, and they themselves are pretty easily killed once you know how. I wonder if they'll sparkle?

I'd like the first thing, too!!(and it's likely 10 X better than what Dabb has in store for us).

As for the bolded part, this is the first time I've laughed since these reviews and new spoilers concerning the premiere first started coming out, so thank you. ;-)

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

37 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They aren't the most efficient of killers, and they themselves are pretty easily killed once you know how.

But isn't that almost perfect for Michael? Beings that he can control because he can easily kill them, but are otherwise immortal. He could theoretically control their numbers. They can't kill him very easily and are more likely to fall in line. The hard part would be that he would have to keep a few humans around to make sure the vampires got fed... unless he moved the vampires to animal blood and saved human blood as "rewards" for good behavior.

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Why does he even need one? He's the only archangel left in the world - he's practically invincible.

If AU Michael is similar to regular Michael, regular Michael generally didn't bother much with getting his own hands dirty that much... that was more a Lucifer thing. Lucifer enjoyed killing people and showing that outward display of power. I think Raphael was similar. Michael generally had Zachariah do his dirty work. I always got the impression that Michael used his power when needed, but generally thought having to do so in an outward, obvious manner was beneath him. I think he would want people / angels / beings to follow him just because he says so... and after an initial show of strength and well placed threats, I think a few hand-picked vampires would be more likely to do that than regular people. And they already generally have their own hierarchies, so Michael can deal with the head vampires and have them take care of keeping everyone else in line.


Actually based on what we know of Michael, I may be crazy, but this is starting to make sense to me. I think this show has damaged my brain.

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catrox14

catrox14

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9 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Now I can't stop thinking of Jensen/Michael snapping his fingers and killing people ala West Side Story.

And singing "play it cool, boy. Or you're gonna be a dead boy"

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
1 hour ago, AwesomO4000 said:

If AU Michael is similar to regular Michael, regular Michael generally didn't bother much with getting his own hands dirty that much... that was more a Lucifer thing. Lucifer enjoyed killing people and showing that outward display of power. I think Raphael was similar. Michael generally had Zachariah do his dirty work. I always got the impression that Michael used his power when needed, but generally thought having to do so in an outward, obvious manner was beneath him. I think he would want people / angels / beings to follow him just because he says so... and after an initial show of strength and well placed threats, I think a few hand-picked vampires would be more likely to do that than regular people. And they already generally have their own hierarchies, so Michael can deal with the head vampires and have them take care of keeping everyone else in line.

But supposedly, this Michael learned something about how he handled things in his own world. I guess vamps are a few levels removed from nuking the planet, but still... sure, they wouldn't be able to harm him, but they aren't really a serious threat, either. At least not once their existence was made known to the general population. They're immortal only to the extent that 99% of their victims don't know they are being attacked by a vampire. How are they going to keep the masses in line?

If he wants to be the new God, lording it over humanity, a few miracles would go a lot further in having 'us' fall at his feet than the threat of imminent death. As someone else already said - I don't want a dumb Michael, and this? Sounds dumb.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If he wants to be the new God, lording it over humanity, a few miracles would go a lot further in having 'us' fall at his feet than the threat of imminent death.

I didn't explain that clearly enough. I meant the threat of imminent death for the vampires, not the people. I don't think Michael cares about the people. He likely finds them not "pure" of motive. I suspect he'd rather have the vampires - under his control - inherit the world. So, I was meaning that theoretically the vampires might be fairly easy to control compared to people. I suspect Michael will want to get rid of most of the people. People are unpredictable and have that pesky free-will that it would be harder to keep under control. Also they're fragile compared to vampires who are immortal.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)

Moved from Public Appearances thread for spoilers.

Okay, Sam not liking Halloween is canon from the pilot - but Dean 'worships the spooky holiday'. Really? Since when? I share your fear, although I think it's more a certainty than a fear, that this is exactly how it will play out. And doesn't Dean have a similar distaste for dolls? I'm betting his fear will be a theme.

3 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I hope that the Halloween episode doesn't come across as cliched as it sounds. (Quoting the article):

  Hide contents

"While Sam (Padalecki) has zero interest in Halloween, his brother Dean (Ackles), worships the spooky holiday"

has the potential to be a Sam the wet-blanket / Dean the over-enthusiastic spaz scenario that I've become tired of, so I hope that's not the case. What I see as an homage to Chucky though sounds interesting. At least for Sam's sake it isn't clowns ; ) .

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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Myrelle

Myrelle

Quote

 

Not so enamored with him citing Lucifer as a character that he'd want to play again, though. I liked his earlier portrayal and think that should just stand as it is.

I found it interesting that Jensen would want to play John though. And especially found this interesting: "I love what [Jeffrey Dean Morgan] did so much, I’ve been trying to emulate it for 13 years as an homage." I'm not sure what to make of that, since in general, I don't find Dean to be like John. It could be that Jensen is just referring to acting style though - which is also interesting.

 

Also brought over from public appearances because both of these things make me fear that that this is the actors propping the writers again and the actual upcoming writing.

IOW, I'm worried that these are hidden spoilers. Really worried.

We know that Pellegrino is coming back and he said to think of Lucifer more in terms of Rowena than Crowley AND the nepotism duo thinks the character can be redeemed. Ugh, Ugh, and UGH!! if this is where they're going and AUMichael is defeated in the end by Sam wearing Lucifer. I can so see these asshats doing that when you consider everything that's come out since Comic Con.

And I think it was Catrox who spec that Dean is going to be put in the John role simply in order to prop the idea that both John and now Dean did Sam no favors by "putting him at the kiddie table" too often and look what a fine man and leader he could have become sooner if they hadn't both done him that disservice. So yeah, UGH! and gag with a spoon again, if this is Dabb's plan going forward into S14; and after these answers, I now feel as if it could very well be so. S5 all over again,  yet again, for like the fourth time. UGH!!!

And I also have never seen John that much in Jensen's Dean except on a very surface level AKA the rough and gruff exterior that they both put up as a front to others and because underneath that, I've never seen the same type of self-involved nature that, IMO, was also written into John's character(especially where family was concerned, but not just exclusively in that way), even while JDM did a good job of attempting to subvert it as best as he could while he was on the show, too. 

They better not try to go there with Dean or I will be so friggin' pissed off.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

19 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is funny and bitter at the same time.  It's hard to miss Dean when he's not gone.

Very true, but the ending of this was Pure Gold. :-D

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

The ultimate BvJ. LMAO!

Totally. LOL!

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Frost

Frost

Doesn't "Dean meets his horror movie villain hero" in the November 1st episode mean that the Michael possession is over by then?  So a max of three episodes of Dean/Michael.  Doesn't seem like Michael will be around long enough to build a monster army!

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
22 minutes ago, Frost said:

Doesn't "Dean meets his horror movie villain hero" in the November 1st episode mean that the Michael possession is over by then?  So a max of three episodes of Dean/Michael.  Doesn't seem like Michael will be around long enough to build a monster army!

It seems like the majority of the Michael storyline is done through tell, and off screen during the 3 week time jump.   Dean is actually back by episode 3.  So at most we bet about an episode and a half to two eps of Michael with a few flashbacks. 

It seems like ultimately its going to end up shorter than Demon Dean in regards to actual screen time.

It honestly feels like episode 4 should be reversed in terms in of the brothers.  With ghosts and witches out on Halloween I would have thought it would put Dean more on the defensive.  Sam was the the brother that wanted normal and trick or treating is considered normal.

As for the slasher flicks, Sam is the one with the serial killer fetish.  Wouldn't he be more interested in Jason, Freddie, and Michael (Halloween guy) than Dean?

 

It seems like the writers doesn't even know the characters. 

Edited by ILoveReading
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Lemuria

Lemuria

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

And I think it was Catrox who spec that Dean is going to be put in the John role simply in order to prop the idea that both John and now Dean did Sam no favors by "putting him at the kiddie table" too often and look what a fine man and leader he could have become sooner if they hadn't both done him that disservice. So yeah, UGH! and gag with a spoon again, if this is Dabb's plan going forward into S14; and after these answers, I now feel as if it could very well be so. S5 all over again,  yet again, for like the fourth time. UGH!!!

If it's remotely true (and I don't buy it) we have a presumably smart and allegedly mature 35-year old who can apparently be "put at the kiddie table" against his will.  Really?  Does Dabb and crew have any idea exactly how weak and pathetic that makes Sam look?

Even worse, it tells me that Sam is not mature, since he is incapable of accepting ownership of his own choices and actions.  If he doesn't like the result, then it's because Dean made him do it.  Sam took complete ownership of what he did in Season 4--even being arrogant and smug about it--when he still thought he would be proven right.  When it turned out he'd been wrong and had been gulled by Ruby, then we get Fallen Idols when it was all "You drove me to Ruby" and "I went with Ruby because she wasn't you."  What an amazingly strong presence Dean must have, to be able to force Sam to do things--against Sam's will, I guess--when he isn't even on the planet!  Just as with the Gadreel situation, Ruby gets less disapprobation from Sam than Dean does.

In the situation that prompted the "kiddie table" comment, Dean didn't want Sam to come and he gave two reasons for it:  one was very big brother-ish--basically, "I don't care what happens to that guy but I'd worry about you"--and one was very common sense--"You'll be able to open another rift and and save me and Mom".  Sam ultimately went along.  That was his choice in the end.  If he really didn't agree, then he needed to plant his feet and flatly refuse to do it Dean's way.  

Nobody put Baby in a corner, and nobody makes an adult sit at the kiddie table. 

Not to mention, most of the time that Dean and Sam have clashed over something Sam really, really wants to do, Sam gets his way, either upfront--Dean agrees to go along--or by agreeing to do it Dean's way and then sneaking around and doing what he wanted to do in the first place (see,  for example, "Hunted").  Which is why I've never understood the claim that Dean bosses Sam around.

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catrox14

catrox14

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48 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

As for the slasher flicks, Sam is the one with the serial killer fetish.  Wouldn't he be more interested in Jason, Freddie, and Michael (Halloween guy) than Dean?

 You are exactly correct. Sam would certainly be interested in serial killer stuff not Dean.  Sam hates Halloween.  Dean finds dolls creepy.  It's canon from s1.  Are they writing AU Sam and Dean here? Is this what's happening? Because that's the only way this makes sense.

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ahrtee

ahrtee

7 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Not to mention, most of the time that Dean and Sam have clashed over something Sam really, really wants to do, Sam gets his way, either upfront--Dean agrees to go along--or by agreeing to do it Dean's way and then sneaking around and doing what he wanted to do in the first place (see,  for example, "Hunted").  Which is why I've never understood the claim that Dean bosses Sam around.

I've been saying that here for years, but people see what they're looking for/what they want to see to justify their opinions.  On both sides.  

 

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

 You are exactly correct. Sam would certainly be interested in serial killer stuff not Dean.  Sam hates Halloween.  Dean finds dolls creepy.  It's canon from s1.  

Though being interested in real-life serial killers doesn't necessarily translate into fiction.  Didn't Dean say something once about being annoyed at people who glorify monsters "when the real things will kill them bloody" (or am I confusing that with someone else)?  But I don't think either one had particularly good memories of Halloween, especially if the anniversary of Mary's (first) death was Nov. 2.

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catrox14

catrox14

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3 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I've been saying that here for years, but people see what they're looking for/what they want to see to justify their opinions.  On both sides.  

 

Though being interested in real-life serial killers doesn't necessarily translate into fiction.  Didn't Dean say something once about being annoyed at people who glorify monsters "when the real things will kill them bloody" (or am I confusing that with someone else)?  But I don't think either one had particularly good memories of Halloween, especially if the anniversary of Mary's (first) death was Nov. 2.

Yeah I don't recall Dean ever being all into Halloween, canonically. Didn't something come up about Dean not likeing Halloween in "It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester?" .  I can't remember exactly, but maybe that's where it came from?  

I can see Dean watching a horror movie as a kid or teen and maybe liking it for a hot minute. Or even just being pop culture savvy doesn't mean Dean LIKES all the pop culture things he mentions either.

I mean Sam talking about the brown acid and Dean liking horror movies seems....opposite day. 

OHHHHH I have a new headcanon.  Dean letting AU Michael possess him altered the universe so much that Sam has a mental breakdown and is applying Deanisms to his own life.  It's all I've got right now LOL.

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Bobcatkitten

Bobcatkitten

I think we have clear canon that Sam is not into Halloween. Being interested in true crime serial killers is not the same thing. 

I think canon is silent on whether Dean likes Halloween. I mean personally I see him being into it - with all the sexy costumes. Seems like it would be up his alley.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

9 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I'm cool with him being into slasher movies when he was younger. It's not like we know every single thing about them. I like learning more about them. 

I am as well, as long as it's in keeping with their character. Sam's dislike of Halloween was just about the first thing he said in the pilot. Dean was creeped out by the dolls in Playthings, so I can't see him 'loving' the Chuckie movies - and can see Dabb using that for 'comic relief'. I can buy that he likes scary/creepy movies though - his pop-culture catalogue runs deep.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

Brought over from the spoiler thread

Quote

Supposedly there is suppose to be a surprise guest in the bunker in episode one--my prediction it's the former vessel of Lucifer aka Mark Pellegrino...which might be the scene in the promo in the dark room where Sam opens a door to it.  As many have speculated it kind of looks like Mark in the semi-darkness--maybe Nick is now sort of a shell and my guess where Michael ends up, in Crowley's souped up old vessel for Lucifer.

Yes, this sounds exactly like the kind of "surprise" Dabb would envision for us...*she said as her eyes rolled to the back of her head*...

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

Quote

All things Mary in the premiere? What scenes she have with Cas, Bobby or Jack apart from Sam. Just excited to see her her interactions with everyone?

Mary is literally the only Winchester (I include Cas and Jack there) holding her shot together. She’s competent and calm…but also making some time to flirt with Bobby

I found this on Tumblr.   I think my eyes rolled back to far I saw behind me. 

Mary Sue Winchester. 

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Res

Res

(edited)
1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I am as well, as long as it's in keeping with their character. Sam's dislike of Halloween was just about the first thing he said in the pilot. Dean was creeped out by the dolls in Playthings, so I can't see him 'loving' the Chuckie movies - and can see Dabb using that for 'comic relief'. I can buy that he likes scary/creepy movies though - his pop-culture catalogue runs deep.

Well we know Dean loves all Stephen King horror as he's mentioned Pet Semetary and the Shining repeatedly. He's also talking about Cuckcoo's Nest in Asylum as well as other tv psychic shows of the time period. He loves Godzilla, except for 1998 remake that only Sam likes ;-). Don't know if that necessarily equates to loving Halloween beyond the candy and sexy costumes. 

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

 what's happening?

At first glance, all I saw was this part of the question and it took me back to French Mistake where the director kept asking this and someone responded "An atrocity, that's what's happening." And I'm vehemently nodding my head to this! And all of Dabb's . . . EVERYTHING!!!

Edited by Res
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catrox14

catrox14

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23 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I found this on Tumblr.   I think my eyes rolled back to far I saw behind me. 

Mary Sue Winchester. 

So it's really going to be 4 star general Mary Winchester....LOL . 

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Res

Res

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So it's really going to be 4 star general Mary Winchester....LOL . 

Why stop at 4? She will be the first ALL STAR General!!! And the best feminist role model evar!

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Res

Res

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

This doesn't inspire me to watch.

Something must be wrong with my computer. I can't hear anything even though my computer is up at full volume.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

Quote

HALLOWEEN HORROR – Dean (Jensen Ackles) continues to struggle. Meanwhile, Sam (Jared Padalecki) must think fast when action figures come to life, and our heroes find themselves living in a real-life horror movie. Amyn Kaderali directed the episode written by Davy Perez. (#1404). Original Airdate 11/1/2018.

Synopsis for episode 4.  I was looking forward to this.  Now not so much. 

My reasons all belong in Bitch vs Jerk so I'll leave it there.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So if it's action figures come to life they better be cursed objects or something...otherwise, what? Zombies?

Possessed mannequins and/or dolls? Like a giant Chucky or Mannequin 4: The Return of Rose Brown?***

*** Who was the ghost possessing the Mannequins in "Mannequin 3..."

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catrox14

catrox14

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10 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Possessed mannequins and/or dolls? Like a giant Chucky or Mannequin 4: The Return of Rose Brown?***

*** Who was the ghost possessing the Mannequins in "Mannequin 3..."

I can't remember anything about Mannequin 3 LOL

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

40 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I can't remember anything about Mannequin 3 LOL

Hee!

One of the reasons I remember the episode is because of the end scene where Dean works on Baby and Sam thanks Dean for getting his soul back for him and tells Dean that no matter what else happens, he's got Dean's back.

But the "monster" in that episode was the ghost of a woman that a bunch of guys played a prank on (involving a mannequin) that went horribly wrong and she got killed. She possessed various mannequins to kill the guys who played the prank on her.

There were a few fun parts and some needed somewhat closure with Lisa and Ben.

There was a weird part where the ghost was attached to a kidney given to her sister, so the sister had to die also.

But Dean being indignant about Baby being possessed will never not be funny for me. "Hey, you leave my baby alone! She has nothing to do with this!"

4 minutes ago, Res said:

Be very thankful about that.

It wasn't great, but I didn't think it was that bad myself. As I mentioned above, there were parts I liked.

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SueB

SueB

11 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Why can't we get creepy horror Halloween! I miss creepy horror vibe.

From the Shaving People, Punting Things video, I think we DEFINITELY get 'creepy horror vibe' in this episode. 

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