These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[Res]

20 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

AU John is not our John.  AU Michael could lobotomoze him, render him catatonic, trick him the way Lucifer tricks his vessels.  Hell if i know.

Using Kevin as a bomb shows us that AU Michael is willing to use psychological warfare to crush his enemies. AZAZEL did it and nearly bested them.

It is just a weird idea I had. No set-up other than AU Michael is capable of it.

Yep.  Correct on that point. We do not agree. I am coming from it having read a lot of classics.  Kripke obviously did not.

Carver did however, and he did redeem the character in my eyes because he had him go through all of the steps of a classic heroic tragic fall and redemption arc in the correct order and without any supernatural whitewashing to explain away his mistakes.  Bravo in my opinion.  Other fans think far too little to late. They hate Sam.

Sam would apologize sometimes and repeat the sane behavior. Having him chose to trust in Dean in 11 was a pivotal moment because every misstep has been when he mistrusted Dean or did things behind Dean's back.

Unforgiven was in regards to Soulless Sam not in regards to forsakiing Dean in favor of some hubric need to be bigger, better and stronger than his big brother, which was the play Ruby used to lure him in, all the while banging the denoness that suggested virgin sacrifice and smiled whilst his brother was dragged off to Hell.

And i never saw him apologize to Jody who lost her entire family in the most awful manner during the Apocalypse. 

Yet somehow Dean feels guilty about Hendricks and Jo whereas in the same episode Sam shrugs his shoulders because he feels he has paid his price. )_(

Even the lamest comic book hero woukd never feel he had paid his price in those circumstances. Kripke and Gamble did a huge disservice to the character.  At some point Seasons 6-7 should have shown Sam trying to come to terms with the horror of what he had done and committing to hunting.  Instead Sam never committed to hunting until season 10 well into Carver's arc.  He did it and whined alot.

There is a reason a lot of fans did not find the character very sympathetic post season 5.  The fault lay in the writing in my opinion.  

So Carver had to do it all again.  Bravo. It worked.   I am sure it sucked if you were a big Sam fan because he acted like a jerk and went dark and broke the world again all without the excuse of demon blood or Ruby or grand schemes. And he was far far worse than demon Dean.  But at least he manned up and went through every damn step of a redemption arc and we saw rhe origin of his hubric need to prove himself and be bigger and better and stronger than his big brother in just my imagination and of course the fault lies in John's parenting and the fact that he protected Sam by excluding him which Dean does too a bit sometimes.

For me the situation has changed....dramatically changed thankfully. For others it was far too little too late.

Count me as one of the ones it was far too late for. But I do want to know how his most recent lying to his brother about the BMOL actually applies to his lessons learned because it doesn't seem like anyone has ever learn that lesson yet.

 

10 hours ago, Reganne said:

I think this is where we disagree.  I don't think Sam should have to commit to hunting in order to receive redemption.  If he doesn't want to hunt, he shouldn't have to.  It's his life and his choices.  Why should he have to commit to hunting?  Because Dean wants him to?  He has even said that he wouldn't want to hunt without Dean.  To me, that's not a redemption.  His redemption was sacrificing himself to end the apocalypse at the end of season 5 for setting Lucifer free.

I completely agree that it is Sam's choice whether to hunt or not to hunt and I do wish he'd pick a side and stick to it. I'm still not convince that he has made his commitment to it and not to his family who've chosen to do this lifestyle. I still believe that if Dean died tomorrow, he'd "hit another dog and find something for himself for the first time ever". AND THAT'S OK!!!! If that's his choice, more power to him. I just hate that TPTB make him so iffy on hunting that you never know what's going to trip his commitment up from one scene to the next. I'd rather he didn't hunt if he didn't want to really do it. Just look how depressed he's become again over it and his/their lives. For goodness sakes, just make a home at the bunker and do research. Meet women and have your life while helping out with research if you want. Or, not at all. Just make a choice and stick to it.

[Castiels Cat]

16 hours ago, Reganne said:

I think this is where we disagree.  I don't think Sam should have to commit to hunting in order to receive redemption.  If he doesn't want to hunt, he shouldn't have to.  It's his life and his choices.  Why should he have to commit to hunting?  Because Dean wants him to?  He has even said that he wouldn't want to hunt without Dean.  To me, that's not a redemption.  His redemption was sacrificing himself to end the apocalypse at the end of season 5 for setting Lucifer free.

 

As far as this season, Sam's hunting skills are lacking, so TBH I wouldn't want a hunter that is simply just getting knocked out or like in the last episode choked by a demi god while Gabriel and Dean do all the work.  At this point, it would almost be better for Sam to just retire as he is more of a liability in the field.  Maybe he should be regulated to research only at this point since the writers have made his hunting skills damn near disastrous.  If the writers are going to make a character a constant damsel in distress, why should that character be hunting at all?  It doesn't make sense.  Now we get to watch Sam get the crap kicked out of him in one of the next episodes, which may or may not cause a hunter (Dean) to become another character.  Thus Sam is once again delegated to a liability on this show.  I think if Sam's redemption was that he had to commit to hunting, I think he should at least have gotten better at it.  Not have the character 13 seasons in become the one that other people have to save all the time.

Okay.  Doing research is important work and would be perfect for Sam and is an excellent use of sam's skill set and is a needed expertise in the larger hunting community per the role Bobby used to fill.

In fact of you look at the wayward sister  line up Alex is the Sam adjacent character, the one most like Sam who went to college, etc. And we saw how she supports jody through the use of her skill set and how she has devoted her life to helping others through nursing as a way to give back for those she hurt when she was living in the vampire nest.  And she was far less culpable than Sam because she was a child living under the threat of death if she did not provide her nest with fresh prey.  

They handled Alex's heroic arc perfectly.

So yes there were definitely ways the writing could have let Sam be Sam and still behaved like a hero should post heroic  tragic fall, especially when said hero went so dark.  But instead Gamble chose to make him super sexy soulless killer on steroids without remorse and then he had Hellpain forever and then he was just annoyed that his girlfriend's husband came back and Dean came back, and he felt really guilty that he did not save Dean because he took a mental health vacation so he decided to kill Dean's friend who actually did save Dean.   Then instead of apologizing he did the trials and almost died and was mad at Dean again and when Dean became suicidal and ended up immediately with the MoC, became a demon, triggering sam's guilt about Dean selling his soul all over again, he goes dark side again.  But this time they do it right and he feels bad a lot because loads of people died and he apologizes and he talks about doing things differently and he changes ...  yada yada yada... yeah Sam!

But yes I agree.  He is far better suited to research.  Stanford Sam should become the resident geek esoecially now that Kevin and Charlie are dead. Jared does not look comfortable doing physical stunt work.  Not like Jensen. Jensen could do stuntvwork processionally.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

I have this weird little bug in my head that I cannot shake.  

Advanced Thanotology was such a good episode... so important. Why the he'll was the crazy whackadoodle oil entity in there. 

Crazy right.

Crazy....

What if That was crazy Michael rhat escaped the cage and just slipped over to the empty for peace and quiet which is what you would do after being trapped in the cage for however many hundred of years it has been in cage time with Lucifer talking non-stop.

Then Cas wakes up and starts yapping. Cas whom he has not seen since he threw flaming holy oil on him... 

And he decides to have some fun.  He makes Cas a new body.  He knows how because he saw Chuck do it. And he hides quietly inside Cas or maybe Cas is trapped quietly inside him as per Lucifer and Michael knows how to completely mask his aura.  Lol canon means R here has always a way.

I just ask myself why was that perfect episode marred by that weird interlude.  Is it really a new character or is it one we know masquerading as sdome crazy new character. And who has been repeatedly described as crazy.

Dumb idea right. 

It is just that at the beginning of the sseason a reoccurring theme was masks and hidden personas.  We saw it repeatedly in more episodes and through Asmodeus' powers and more recently through Gabriel/Loki.   They never do rhat without a big payoff. I know some people think Naomi was suspicious... meh... not big enough.

Sure they can use us,for shock and awe wirh Dean at the end but we are already spoiled.

Hmmm.

[companionenvy]

38 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

But yes I agree.  He is far better suited to research. 

What is kind of hysterical to me is that last season, there were tons of complaints about super hunter Sam, and how Dean wasn't getting to do anything and was reduced to incompetent support. And this season, Dean has again been the more competent hunter. But suddenly Sam, who was getting all the kills last year, is apparently only suited for research and should stay in his lane. 

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

So yes there were definitely ways the writing could have let Sam be Sam and still behaved like a hero should post heroic  tragic fall, especially when said hero went so dark.  But instead Gamble chose to make him super sexy soulless killer on steroids without remorse and then he had Hellpain forever and then he was just annoyed that his girlfriend's husband came back and Dean came back, and he felt really guilty that he did not save Dean because he took a mental health vacation so he decided to kill Dean's friend who actually did save Dean.   Then instead of apologizing he did the trials and almost died and was mad at Dean again and when Dean became suicidal and ended up immediately with the MoC, became a demon, triggering sam's guilt about Dean selling his soul all over again, he goes dark side again.  But this time they do it right and he feels bad a lot because loads of people died and he apologizes and he talks about doing things differently and he changes ...  yada yada yada... yeah Sam!

Moved my response to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread just to be safe and because it wasn't about spoilers.

Edited April 29, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[Aeryn13]

Quote

 And this season, Dean has again been the more competent hunter.

I`d say second half of the Season. The first half still had constant Deansel in distress being saved moments. I still posit his Season 2 self could easily kick his own ass via Season 13 but it`s definitely better than last year.  

Now I don`t think that means anything storywise. Maybe IF Dean is indeed going to be Michael, they wanted to make him a bit more competent first. Last year he would have made a pathetic vessel. 

Then again, they already made archangels themselves pathetic via Gabriel and his "my seven years of torture, boohoo" trauma. I thought an angel would hold out for at least a thousand years or so before even approaching being broken. Let alone an archangel. Lucifer is constantly throwing himself childish pity parties but even he never got broken to such a degree, even after his grace loss.     

That`s why I`m hoping that if we were to see cage!Michael, Lucifer was lying about his state of mind. Michael shouldn`t be made that pathetic so easily. It`s not like big, bad Lucifer could torture him in the cage. They are at the very least of equal strength, lore suggests Michael is stronger.  

[Castiels Cat]

19 hours ago, companionenvy said:

What is kind of hysterical to me is that last season, there were tons of complaints about super hunter Sam, and how Dean wasn't getting to do anything and was reduced to incompetent support. And this season, Dean has again been the more competent hunter. But suddenly Sam, who was getting all the kills last year, is apparently only suited for research and should stay in his lane. 

Dean killed Hitler.

[devlin]

I am thoroughly confused. How can sam be haunted by luci’s true face. I thought cas took his hell memories. If we are to believe what we were told about the “worst ever hell experience” then if sam could remember anything about  it, he wouldn’t be able to function 

[AwesomO4000]

53 minutes ago, devlin said:

I am thoroughly confused. How can sam be haunted by luci’s true face. I thought cas took his hell memories. If we are to believe what we were told about the “worst ever hell experience” then if sam could remember anything about  it, he wouldn’t be able to function 

I thought the same thing about Dean's 40 years, too, but the show didn't think so, so there it is.

As for Sam, I think Castiel did something to make his condition livable, but I think he still has his hell memories. Cas took Sam's crazy - which for Sam was Lucifer visions. It morphed into something else later for Castiel - but the memories were still there. Maybe Castiel muted them?

What lends evidence to them still being there was the witch episode who's name we shall not speak. The witch in that dragged up memories inside Sam and Dean intended to incapacitate them (if I remember correctly) and for Sam we saw his hell memories.

As for Sam's being the worst ever, that was Dean thought it would be, but I more think the experiences were... different. I imagine Dean's was more physically brutal and painful, because torture was the main goal. I imagine Sam went through pain also - as the memories, hallucinations, and visions representing his memories would seem to indicate - but I can also imagine mind games - that were also implied by his hallucinations - also played a part. For example, I can imagine egotistical Lucifer leaving Sam in total darkness, alone, for long long stretches of time waiting for Sam to beg for him to come back even if he knew Lucifer would torture him just so he wouldn't be alone, and then getting a huge egotistical satisfaction when Sam did beg for him to come back. I can imagine there was a lot of stuff like that where Lucifer could feed his own ego using Sam to do it.

So I imagine both experiences as awful. Dean's likely more painful, Sam's likely more psychological.

I'm not sure how that ties into Lucifer's true face, but it's sadly obvious that this detail is something new, since we haven't heard of it before... Unless Sam didn't remember seeing Lucifer's true face somehow until something - going back to the cage, or even Rowena mentioning it (I'd have to rewatch that scene to see if I could pick up any clues since I wasn't paying complete attention the first time I watched it). I only know that this was the first time I'd heard of it.

[Myrelle]

I don't know if I would still be watching this season if the spoiler of Dean getting to play another character who's not Dean hadn't been released.

It's all I'm waiting for, to be truthful.

[gonzosgirrl]

7 hours ago, devlin said:

I am thoroughly confused. How can sam be haunted by luci’s true face. I thought cas took his hell memories. If we are to believe what we were told about the “worst ever hell experience” then if sam could remember anything about  it, he wouldn’t be able to function 

In all the many, many, many hours spent on Lucifer and Sam on this show, this 'true face' issue never came up. It has, however, been a major plot point on Lucifer, the Fox series for the past couple years. Coincidence? I doubt it.

[Myrelle]

37 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

In all the many, many, many hours spent on Lucifer and Sam on this show, this 'true face' issue never came up. It has, however, been a major plot point on Lucifer, the Fox series for the past couple years. Coincidence? I doubt it.

Wow. That's pretty pathetic.

[Castiels Cat]

19 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Wow. That's pretty pathetic.

Zachariah' has four heads one of which is a lion.... jazz hands... sigh I do miss the old angels.

They did touch on this.  They use vessels because their true faces are too powerful.  Castiel is the size of the Chrysler Building and his true face destroyed Pamela's eyes.  Michael's true face killed the bar patrons.

It is surprising Rowena survived.  Witches....

But I agree that they are probably stealing from Lucifer since they use that a lot over there.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 4/30/2018 at 12:46 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

I thought the same thing about Dean's 40 years, too, but the show didn't think so, so there it is.

As for Sam, I think Castiel did something to make his condition livable, but I think he still has his hell memories. Cas took Sam's crazy - which for Sam was Lucifer visions. It morphed into something else later for Castiel - but the memories were still there. Maybe Castiel muted them?

What lends evidence to them still being there was the witch episode who's name we shall not speak. The witch in that dragged up memories inside Sam and Dean intended to incapacitate them (if I remember correctly) and for Sam we saw his hell memories.

As for Sam's being the worst ever, that was Dean thought it would be, but I more think the experiences were... different. I imagine Dean's was more physically brutal and painful, because torture was the main goal. I imagine Sam went through pain also - as the memories, hallucinations, and visions representing his memories would seem to indicate - but I can also imagine mind games - that were also implied by his hallucinations - also played a part. For example, I can imagine egotistical Lucifer leaving Sam in total darkness, alone, for long long stretches of time waiting for Sam to beg for him to come back even if he knew Lucifer would torture him just so he wouldn't be alone, and then getting a huge egotistical satisfaction when Sam did beg for him to come back. I can imagine there was a lot of stuff like that where Lucifer could feed his own ego using Sam to do it.

So I imagine both experiences as awful. Dean's likely more painful, Sam's likely more psychological.

I'm not sure how that ties into Lucifer's true face, but it's sadly obvious that this detail is something new, since we haven't heard of it before... Unless Sam didn't remember seeing Lucifer's true face somehow until something - going back to the cage, or even Rowena mentioning it (I'd have to rewatch that scene to see if I could pick up any clues since I wasn't paying complete attention the first time I watched it). I only know that this was the first time I'd heard of it.

Nobody erased Dean's 40 years of hell memories nor did we get 2 seasons of plot involving it.  We saw one bro talk, one episode with Alastair who Dean did not kill by the way and the rest was through Jensen's acting, changing Dean to show how he had been changed by his experiences.  The show basically ignored it.  

There is no comparison between the treatment of how Dean was affected by his experience in Hell and how Sam was affected. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[belbar]

11 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Nobody erased Dean's 40 years of hell memories nor did we get 2 seasons of plot involving it.  We got one bro talk, one episode with Alastair who Dean did not kill by the way and the rest was through Jensen's acting, changing Dean to show he had changed.  The show basically ignored it.  

There is no comparison between the treatment of how Dean was effected by his experience in Hell and how Sam was affected

This so much. It was Singer decission and I will always think that was a mistake. Instead we had two years of the consequences for Sam and the  childish Lucifer and with it the total destruction of what once was a good character. And here we are so many years later still on it.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, belbar said:

This so much. It was Singer decission and I will always think that was a mistake. Instead we had two years of the consequences for Sam and the  childish Lucifer and with it the total destruction of what once was a good character. And here we are so many years later still on it.

 I believed for a hot minute that it might possibly be Jensen's 'new character' Jared was so excited/emotional about, but now that they have brought this Lucifangst back into Sam's world, nope. I'm convinced this is what Jared has waited so long to read in the script.

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

Nobody erased Dean's 40 years of hell memories nor did we get 2 seasons of plot involving it.  We got one bro talk, one episode with Alastair who Dean did not kill by the way and the rest was through Jensen's acting, changing Dean to show he had changed.  The show basically ignored it.  

There is no comparison between the treatment of how Dean was effected by his experience in Hell and how Sam was affected. 

True that.

[DeeDee79]

37 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 I believed for a hot minute that it might possibly be Jensen's 'new character' Jared was so excited/emotional about, but now that they have brought this Lucifangst back into Sam's world, nope. I'm convinced this is what Jared has waited so long to read in the script.

From this I have a truly nightmarish spec: what if Dean lets Lucifer possess him now that he has more power in order to take out AU!Michael? He will then taunt Sam while he's in Dean's body and we the viewers will have to see Dean beat Sam bloody before he takes back control ( ala Swan Song ) and yet another rift will form within the fandom because of ( A ) Dean stealing Sam's BDH moment and ( B ) The writers making Sam's fear of Lucifer's true face be forever associated with Dean as well! Ugh.

[gonzosgirrl]

24 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

From this I have a truly nightmarish spec: what if Dean lets Lucifer possess him now that he has more power in order to take out AU!Michael? He will then taunt Sam while he's in Dean's body and we the viewers will have to see Dean beat Sam bloody before he takes back control ( ala Swan Song ) and yet another rift will form within the fandom because of ( A ) Dean stealing Sam's BDH moment and ( B ) The writers making Sam's fear of Lucifer's true face be forever associated with Dean as well! Ugh.

The only thing saving us from that nightmare is the info from both Jensen and Singer that we haven't seen the character for a 'long time'. Unfortunately (or thankfully in this context only) that can't be used to describe Lucifer.

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The only thing saving us from that nightmare is the info from both Jensen and Singer that we haven't seen the character for a 'long time'. Unfortunately (or thankfully in this context only) that can't be used to describe Lucifer.

Very good point since Lucifer has featured in almost every season. Weren't seasons 6, 8-9 the only ones without him?

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Very good point since Lucifer has featured in almost every season. Weren't seasons 6, 8-9 the only ones without him?

And 10. 

[AwesomO4000]

And seasons 1 through 3. He was a plot point in season 4, but more of a concept and not an actual thing until the end... and we didn't actually see him until season 5.

Edited to add: And technically he wasn't in season 7 either, since that was Sam's hallucination of Lucifer and not really Lucifer, but if we count season 7 anyway, Lucifer was in seasons 5, 7, 11, and 12. Hmm - technically Michael or alternate Michael was in seasons 4, 5, and 12, so if we didn't count not-really-Lucifer in season 7, they would be in the same number of seasons. I wouldn't have guessed that... The amount of appearances, however, definitely is more for Lucifer by a lot.

Edited May 1, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[AwesomO4000]

6 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Nobody erased Dean's 40 years of hell memories nor did we get 2 seasons of plot involving it.  We got one bro talk, one episode with Alastair who Dean did not kill by the way and the rest was through Jensen's acting, changing Dean to show he had changed.  The show basically ignored it.  

There is no comparison between the treatment of how Dean was effected by his experience in Hell and how Sam was affected. 

Taken to the "All Episodes" thread.

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 I believed for a hot minute that it might possibly be Jensen's 'new character' Jared was so excited/emotional about, but now that they have brought this Lucifangst back into Sam's world, nope. I'm convinced this is what Jared has waited so long to read in the script.

Yeah. Jared usually reacts to Sam stuff.

4 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

From this I have a truly nightmarish spec: what if Dean lets Lucifer possess him now that he has more power in order to take out AU!Michael? He will then taunt Sam while he's in Dean's body and we the viewers will have to see Dean beat Sam bloody before he takes back control ( ala Swan Song ) and yet another rift will form within the fandom because of ( A ) Dean stealing Sam's BDH moment and ( B ) The writers making Sam's fear of Lucifer's true face be forever associated with Dean as well! Ugh.

No no no.  Not gonna happen.  

Lucifer is a Loser.  

I wonder if the promo is misleading.  Lucifer is pretty weak now unless he stole everyone's grace in heaven and that is Why the lights are bonkers.

Still he's not near full power.  Rowena is very powerful.   She can hurt him I expect.  Natural witches are extremely powerful.

Marsters bested a leviathan and leviathan were stronger than angels.  I think Rowena hurts him badly and he has tyo jump through r he rift to escape.  

[Castiels Cat]

On 9/29/2017 at 6:54 AM, ILoveReading said:

https://faegal04.tumblr.com/post/165797931184/is-this-benny-it-looks-like-benny

It looks like Mary is even getting her own Benny. 

It really seems like these writers have zero creativity anymore.  Everything this season is literally just a repeat of other seasons. 

Dean's grief is just season 7

Sam is back to season 1-2 freak issues

Jack is a Cas clone, and an Amara repeat

Mary= purgatory

Crowley= Colonel Sanders

The apocalypse is back on track. season 5, 6, 7.

The post seems to be gone from Tumblr but Clark Backo (Patience ) tweeted a picture of herself talking about a trailer upgrade.

So if she's in this ep, that would mean that episode 3, 7, 9, and 10 are wayward sisters ep, which means almost half of the first season is dedicated to setting up the spin off. 

Do any of the writers actually care about the main show anymore?

I have a theory rhat there is a mytharc reason for this. Dean showing up at Stull changed Chucks story per Chuck, stopped the Apocalypse and  Michael ended up in the Cage... eventually Sam lived and Lucifer got out. 4 things that were against the natural order.  So fate has been repeatedly trying to reset things back which is why  there always seems to be another sorta kinda Apocalypse and Sam  always needs rescuing or sorta dies and Dean always feels like they are having to save the world every year and nothing ever changes.  And the reboots have been getting tighter and more faniliar and the he problems have been getting more exponential. 

Death has taken a longstanding interest in Dean.

He tried to reach him about the natural order. He tried to reach him that things need to die when they are supposed to die. He asked him to kill Sam who was supposed to die in season 2, seadon 5, season 9. And now Death has talked to him about choices, fate, butterfly effect, culling, and the fact that he is necessary and he had work to do.

My spec is that a Apocalypse has to happen with Dean!Michael fighting AU Michael I guess and Lucifer must die and then he must fix heaven and maybe Sam must die. But it is Supernatural so how long will that last right?  Maybe Dean has to let him die and then he gets resurrected.?

I think there is a reason for it.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[ILoveReading]

Sneak peek.

Either Dean found a new valium supplier or Sam slipped him some because suddenly he's okay with working with Lucifer.  When last week it was "no Sammy, I can't let Lucifer hurt you."

Unless the purpose of Sam's lecture was to put Dean back in his place of not questioning anything and just going along.

Every week I become more and more convinced they don't read each others scripts.

Yet antoher episode about Sam's hell time.  Just once, I;d like one about Dean. (that's not comic relief/mocking)

[gonzosgirrl]

16 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

Sneak peek.

Either Dean found a new valium supplier or Sam slipped him some because suddenly he's okay with working with Lucifer.  When last week it was "no Sammy, I can't let Lucifer hurt you."

Unless the purpose of Sam's lecture was to put Dean back in his place of not questioning anything and just going along.

Every week I become more and more convinced they don't read each others scripts.

Yet antoher episode about Sam's hell time.  Just once, I;d like one about Dean. (that's not comic relief/mocking)

Maybe they'll allow Jensen a pensive look before entering the room.

[Bobcatkitten]

Again, why do they need Lucifer's grace? Isn't that what Gabriel is for? Ugh!!!!!

[catrox14]

41 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

Sneak peek.

Either Dean found a new valium supplier or Sam slipped him some because suddenly he's okay with working with Lucifer.  When last week it was "no Sammy, I can't let Lucifer hurt you."

Unless the purpose of Sam's lecture was to put Dean back in his place of not questioning anything and just going along.

Every week I become more and more convinced they don't read each others scripts.

Yet antoher episode about Sam's hell time.  Just once, I;d like one about Dean. (that's not comic relief/mocking)

I didn't take it that way TBH.  I think Dean is willing to do whatever it takes. I said in the other thread that Dean is probably afraid of what Lucifer will do to Sam, not that he's necessarily on board with the plan.  But since no one seems to remember that Michael is in the Cage and the writers love Lucifer, it's gonna be all about Lucifer and Sam.

[belbar]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But since no one seems to remember that Michael is in the Cage and the writers love Lucifer, it's gonna be all about Lucifer and Sam.

I'm afraid that you seem to be right.

[Aeryn13]

I think this plan to capture Lucifer and steal some of his grace is stupid. Especially since not only Rowena but also Gabriel are clearly in on it. So the thing in the bar is a set-up. Hey Gabe, how about you spring some grace? It won`t kill you. As if confronting Lucifer is better than donating a bit. 

Can just imagine it now, everyone bemoans that catching Lucifer is the ONLY way to get some archangel grace for the spell. And a giant pink elephant next to Gabriel tries to creep from the room as unconspiciously as possible. 

I mean, the writers can make the characters as dumb as they want since those can`t fight back but what has given them the impression they can do the same thing with the audience? As if people won`t notice an archangel there when everyone bemoans their lack of archangel grace. 

Honestly, I had no problem with Dean not saying much. Let Sam and Cas hash it out amongst themselves. Why isn`t Sam gaga for revenge anymore? They`ve been trying to build that up.

Yeah, overall I do believe it`s because none of those writers talk to each other. I just wait for the day when one of them writes a script, centered around a character who has been killed off in the previous episode (and not in a "comes back" way but in a "completely ignore what just happened" way). And the Vancouver crew says "fuck it" and film the ep. The actor keeps their mouth shut since work is work. 

I dare you, show, I dare you.    

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think this plan to capture Lucifer and steal some of his grace is stupid. Especially since not only Rowena but also Gabriel are clearly in on it. So the thing in the bar is a set-up. Hey Gabe, how about you spring some grace? It won`t kill you. As if confronting Lucifer is better than donating a bit. 

Since Lucifer doesn't know that Gabriel is back, what a perfect way to ambush and kill Lucifer since they have the arch angel blade.  They can drain the grace and use it to their hearts content.   I don't think anyone would care if Lucifer was dead.

If they are going to trap Lucifer and drain his grace why not do it there and leave him to fend for himself.  Why bring him back to the bunker and trust Rowena too keep an eye on him.  Wouldn't Gabriel be better since he's an arch angel and actually has the power to best Lucifer and bet him and kill him if necessary.

I wonder if Rowena betrays them,

[Myrelle]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But since no one seems to remember that Michael is in the Cage and the writers love Lucifer, it's gonna be all about Lucifer and Sam.

IA that this one will be yet another Lucifer and Sam redux.

 

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Honestly, I had no problem with Dean not saying much. Let Sam and Cas hash it out amongst themselves. Why isn`t Sam gaga for revenge anymore? They`ve been trying to build that up.

 Yeah, I didn't have a problem with Dean being mostly quiet here either.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

IA that this one will be yet another Lucifer and Sam redux.

 

 Yeah, I didn't have a problem with Dean being mostly quiet here either.

My only worry about Dean being so quiet is that it's a sign he's got some other scheme and that might be making a deal with Lucifer if he leaves Sam alone.

[ILoveReading]

Quote

I want Dean back on Supernatural — the good ol’, protective big brother Dean. Please tell me we’ll get some great brotherly moments soon! —JJ
Remember how star Jared Padalecki told us Sam would go through something “pretty harrowing and terrifying” in this Thursday’s episode? Well, Dean has a very emotional, big brother reaction to it. On the lighter side, you can look forward to some comedic scenes as the brothers, Cas and Gabriel awkwardly land in apocalypse world — let’s just say personal space is invaded — and Rowena does something that leaves the boys’ mouths agape.

This is the kind of thing that makes me bitter.  Dean is more than a brother. 

http://tvline.com/2018/05/02/lucifer-season-3-spoilers-deaths/

Edited May 2, 2018 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is the kind of thing that makes me bitter.  Dean is more than a brother. 

Same.

[Myrelle]

15 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is the kind of thing that makes me bitter.  Dean is more than a brother. 

http://tvline.com/2018/05/02/lucifer-season-3-spoilers-deaths/

I knew it was going to be hard slogging through the ones leading up to the finale. And this is Berens whose scripts have become as disappointing as the Nepotism duo's and Dabb's in the last few seasons.

[Casseiopeia]

Well maybe if Sam is in jeopardy of some sort and they can't get grace from Lucifer (because Rowena, Gabe....god anybody....killed him) this will be how they come up with the RW Michael plan.  Supposedly Rowena can open the cage sooo.....Dean/Michael?

[Aeryn13]

35 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is the kind of thing that makes me bitter.  Dean is more than a brother. 

http://tvline.com/2018/05/02/lucifer-season-3-spoilers-deaths/

Well, to the person asking the question Dean is obviously just an object with which to worship Sam. So, a stan basically. 

The answer bugs me way more. Is it just gonna be an emo reaction or something more? In this instance I pray it is just emo. I do not want whatever Dean does to be all about big brother reactions. Give me a break. 

And what kind of harrowing and terrifying thing can it be anyway? We all know Lucifer is gonna spend time with Jack while Sam hop-skips with the AU crowd in episode 22. So it`s not possession. Is it supposed to be that monster-thingie? 

Hopefully, this will be like the Speight interview where I wondered what the hell he was going on about with the great bonding of Sam and Gabe in last episode. Because that didn`t happen. 

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

The answer bugs me way more. Is it just gonna be an emo reaction or something more? In this instance I pray it is just emo. I do not want whatever Dean does to be all about big brother reactions. Give me a break. 

I figure it will be all about Sam.  IMO, its why they pulled out the big brother card again last week and again this week. 

[Reganne]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

 

The answer bugs me way more. Is it just gonna be an emo reaction or something more? In this instance I pray it is just emo. I do not want whatever Dean does to be all about big brother reactions. Give me a break. 

 

I agree with you here, but for different reasons.  I'm tired of Sam being Dean's burden in life.  I like the brothers being brothers and I do for the most part like their relationship, but Sam's been the burden since he was 6 months old.  Not that he's 35, why don't they let him, I don't know be a decent hunter and not have his existence make Dean's life hell.  It's ridiculous.  Sam at this point in the series shouldn't be at his worst hunting wise.

[gonzosgirrl]

All I can say is it's good thing Jensen having a new character has been spoiled, because it's literally the only reason I'm watching the end of the season. I don't think I've ever watched a show where I wish so many characters would just fucking die already. And stay dead. Lucifer, Mary, Gabriel, Ketch, everybody in the AU for starters. Maybe kill Lucifer twice just for good measure.

[BoxManLocke]

It's still so amazing to me that they opened this huge can of worms with the introduction of alternate universes, literally endless possibilities to take the show to completely new, crazy places...

 

And in the end it still amounts to the same tired old crap. Big brother gotta save little brother, Lucifer, Michael. No new characters from there, only lame comebacks that are used simply because it saves the writers time when they don't have to make introductions. The AW actually had more of an impact for Wayward Sisters' pilot than it did for SPN's entire season 13.

 

The show is so filled with useless characters and storylines right now it's getting close to being in need of a reboot. The finale better wipe that slate clean because right now it's overflowing with shit.

Edited May 3, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[MysteryGuest]

I just don't understand where Sam's sudden fear of Lucifer is coming from.  He didn't fear him that much when they confronted him in the hotel room with Sister Jo.  He didn't cower away when it came to saving him from Amara's torture two years ago, or when he actually went into the makeshift cage with him.  His current reaction to him just seems completely manufactured.  I'm just so fucking done with that entire storyline, but they just refuse to let it go.  

This is why I can't get all excited about the prospect of Dean/Michael.  I simply do not care about Michael.  I'm praying that Dean becomes someone completely unexpected, but I have very little faith in the writers to be able to surprise us.  Are the majority of fans really that interested in the angel bullshit?  I love Cas, but he's the only angel I need to see, going forward.

[BoxManLocke]

16 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I just don't understand where Sam's sudden fear of Lucifer is coming from.  He didn't fear him that much when they confronted him in the hotel room with Sister Jo.  He didn't cower away when it came to saving him from Amara's torture two years ago, or when he actually went into the makeshift cage with him.  His current reaction to him just seems completely manufactured.  I'm just so fucking done with that entire storyline, but they just refuse to let it go. 

They're finally closing the Lucifer chapter and need to add tension. That's what it feels like to me. Only it's difficult to make a character feel intimidating when you had him behave like a sitcom reject for the last two seasons, so all they can do is have other characters talk about how super scary old Luci is all of a sudden.

Let's be real, there's no way Lucifer is going down in a satisfying manner. Character deaths haven't been satisfying in a very long time, it's either apathy or relief. Only thing that matters is that we get there. And it's going to be the same with Mary, Jack and the AW.

[MysteryGuest]

Well, I'll be stunned if they actually kill Lucifer off.  Thrilled, mind you, but stunned.

[AwesomO4000]

38 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

This is why I can't get all excited about the prospect of Dean/Michael.  I simply do not care about Michael.  I'm praying that Dean becomes someone completely unexpected, but I have very little faith in the writers to be able to surprise us.  Are the majority of fans really that interested in the angel bullshit?  

Me neither, and NO! I can't imagine any scenario with Dean/Michael that comes out in a way I would like, and I have considered quite a few ways it could happen and turn out. And I imagine a lot of them will mean either desperate Dean, did-something-stupid-and-needs-to-be-saved Sam, or both of those things. And in quite a few of those scenarios I also imagine Sam will get blamed for whatever happens... if it's bad anyway: which 85% chance there. And in a few more scenarios, Sam will either look like a "bad brother" or fans will get mad at him if he somehow saves the day. I can think of maybe one scenario where both brothers get to do something together to save the world... okay I lied, I can't or at least not one I think that the writers would actually do.

So yeah, a big "no" on me wanting to see Dean/Michael or any more angel crap.

...Unless it's Castiel and Jack... that's okay. I actually like Jack.

[MysteryGuest]

5 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Me neither, and NO! I can't imagine any scenario with Dean/Michael that comes out in a way I would like, and I have considered quite a few ways it could happen and turn out. And I imagine a lot of them will mean either desperate Dean, did-something-stupid-and-needs-to-be-saved Sam, or both of those things. And in quite a few of those scenarios I also imagine Sam will get blamed for whatever happens... if it's bad anyway: which 85% chance there. And in a few more scenarios, Sam will either look like a "bad brother" or fans will get mad at him if he somehow saves the day. I can think of maybe one scenario where both brothers get to do something together to save the world... okay I lied, I can't or at least not one I think that the writers would actually do.

So yeah, a big "no" on me wanting to see Dean/Michael or any more angel crap.

...Unless it's Castiel and Jack... that's okay. I actually like Jack.

I forgot about Jack, he can stay, too.  But no more.  

I have to assume, based on the most recent preview, that they're leading up to some sort of confrontation between Sam and Lucifer.  I'd be all for it, if Sam actually got to kill him, but just doing it for the sake of rehashing Sam's hell time, I wish they wouldn't bother.  And yes, it makes perfect sense that something will happen between Sam and Lucifer that will cause Dean to make a decision regarding Michael... ho hum.  My biggest fear, since supposedly Jensen's new role arc really doesn't go into full effect until next season, is that we'll be stuck with the damn angel storyline for next season, too.  Since that may be our last season, that prospect depresses the hell out of me.

[gonzosgirrl]

36 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

They're finally closing the Lucifer chapter and need to add tension. That's what it feels like to me. Only it's difficult to make a character feel intimidating when you had him behave like a sitcom reject for the last two seasons, so all they can do is have other characters talk about how super scary old Luci is all of a sudden.

Let's be real, there's no way Lucifer is going down in a satisfying manner. Character deaths haven't been satisfying in a very long time, it's either apathy or relief. Only thing that matters is that we get there. And it's going to be the same with Mary, Jack and the AW.

I agree with all of this. Unfortunately, even if they kill Lucifer, they've made it impossible to invest in a death on the show. They'll just undo it whenever they feel the need.

[BoxManLocke]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I agree with all of this. Unfortunately, even if they kill Lucifer, they've made it impossible to invest in a death on the show. They'll just undo it whenever they feel the need.

I'd rather live with fear knowing that the writers might bring Lucifer back rather than having to see his punchable face every couple of weeks.

 

Besides, if they can end have Sam confront Lucifer and get rid of Jack, that'll be two Lucifer storylines closed and minus two reasons to bring him back.

 

The character is such a huge burden on the show, if we can get rid of him even temporarily, that's a victory in my book.