S02.E02: A Manny-Splendored Thing

[debraran]

I know it would freak me out if I was floundering in the water and thought no one knew or cared. I had a scary moment once and it stayed with me for a long time.

Someone asked on a different forum, "did you catch the picture on a fireplace in the last scene of the pool episode with Randall?" No one answered but now I'm tempted to check. ; )

Edited October 9, 2017 by debraran

[Clanstarling]

It does seem odd that one kid wouldn't know how to swim, but I'd bet there are plenty of scenarios for that.

I didn't learn until I was 16 - after an abortive attempt when I was 8 or so - I was flailing in the deep end and thought I would drown, and the teacher offered no instruction, encouragement, and didn't move to help. I finally figured out how to bounce out - and I bounced right out of that class. I still hate being in the water. My mom swam like a fish - water was  her element. Not sure why she never taught me.

[debraran]

So I looked at the pic on the fireplace in The Pool episode. It was this: Who is that in the corner?

 

[Cardie]

10 minutes ago, debraran said:

Who is that in the corner?

The mother who confronted Rebecca at the pool. Her name is Yvette; her sons later became Randall's friends and they had playdates. That is a weird picture though. Many wonder why it doesn't contain her children as well as the Big Three.

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, debraran said:

So I looked at the pic on the fireplace in The Pool episode. It was this: Who is that in the corner?

 

Someone kevin found to drag into the picture so there would be someone to hug him?  Or is it the mom of Randall's friend?  That would be weird, though.  Why would she be in a picture without her son?  Where was this taken there appear to be lots of trees?

[SnarkySheep]

On 10/4/2017 at 5:21 AM, debraran said:

Having older children and doing it or no children, but 2 young (and somewhat pampered) ones? IDK.

IMO Tess and Annie aren't pampered, just well brought up. The girls have been given everything they need in life, both physical and emotional, as well as the best educational opportunities. They are, in short, children in whom a great deal of time and effort has been placed. Now, in bringing an older child with various issues into the house, that can be undone in short time, as the foster child may model behaviors that Randall and Beth have so far worked hard in not having in their own kids. If the girls were older and understood more about why some kids coming from less fortunate backgrounds might act in certain ways, it would be different, but the girls now are too young to really understand fully. In addition, they are very impressionable at their ages.

 

On 10/4/2017 at 7:52 AM, llewis823 said:

And I sort of like that he made pigs in a blanket for Miguel.  I'm still super skeptical about Miguel but it is nice that somebody takes a minute to think about him.

 I'm still having some trouble not seeing him as Esposito from Castle and basically projecting his personality from that show onto this one...but yes, I agree!

[Clanstarling]

51 minutes ago, SnarkySheep said:

I'm still having some trouble not seeing him as Esposito from Castle and basically projecting his personality from that show onto this one...but yes, I agree!

I have a bit of the same, I keep waiting for him to be more assertive.

[SlovakPrincess]

On October 3, 2017 at 10:07 PM, weightyghost said:

They did mention they were 19 at the time so maybe something shifted after Jack died (but I also don't remember what we've been told previously, just what we've seen of them on the show).

It seems like Kevin and Randall mostly didn't get along as kids, and they were even pretty distant at the beginning of the first season.  But I'm willing to bet that once Kevin was in college and away from always feeling like the forgotten third kid that he began to resent Randall less, and they weren't especially close but were not unfriendly to each other.  And probably he liked the idea of helping Randall flirt with Beth in college - finally, something Randall the smart one needed Kevin's help with!  

[jumper sage]

10 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

It seems like Kevin and Randall mostly didn't get along as kids, and they were even pretty distant at the beginning of the first season.  But I'm willing to bet that once Kevin was in college and away from always feeling like the forgotten third kid that he began to resent Randall less, and they weren't especially close but were not unfriendly to each other.  And probably he liked the idea of helping Randall flirt with Beth in college - finally, something Randall the smart one needed Kevin's help with!  

I agree and would like to up the ante with:  being in the same grade as your siblings must be hard.  Your world as children is very small and grows as you age.  Most of us aren't in the same grade as our siblings so we do get a respite from being compared to each other.  My brother, only 10 months older, was in a grade above me and when he would go on to the next school I was free to be me.  We got along just fine but sometimes school and other groups compare you.  We both took typing in high school back in the day when hardly any boys took typing.  Having me the girl and he the boy with the same typing teacher was difficult.  We weren't in the same class but when my mom went to see the teacher to inquire about how I was doing (her dream for me was to be a secretary) and the teacher gushed that my brother was a wiz...........it did not work out well inside the home.  We didn't care but our parents would argue.  My dad could not believe my mom would allow my brother to take typing, like she had any say in the matter.  My point is that being a brother and sister worked well for us because neither of us cared and supported each other through life even though we might have bickered being kids.  My sister and I would fight to the death even though we never hit each other but our screaming matches were legendary.  

This family has sooooooo many deep rooted problems and the mother has no self awareness to address and get over problems.  Each of the kids have deep rooted problems that they can't seem to get past.  In season 2, to me anyways, it may be the problems outweigh the good times and I don't enjoy that.

[MaryPatShelby]

I know one thing - I'm not that interested in seeing/hearing Kate/Chrissy sing a song every episode.  It pulls me back to when Anson Williams decided he could sing, and did so on so many (it seemed to me at the time) Happy Days eps.  And other shows have done this as well - "Hey, x can sing! X can sing on the show! The fans will love it!  Fewer lines, less plot!"

[auntiemel]

I have a very hard time believing that Andrea, who sang "Nothing Compares to You" at the audition after Kate, would stand for having been demoted to backup singer because she "wasn't good enough" to sing lead in the "17th ranked wedding band in Los Angeles" when there was not even a better lead singer on the horizon. That, in fact, she would have stuck around to participate in the audition process for the mythical "better than you are" replacement.

[debraran]

19 hours ago, jumper sage said:

I agree and would like to up the ante with:  being in the same grade as your siblings must be hard.  Your world as children is very small and grows as you age.  Most of us aren't in the same grade as our siblings so we do get a respite from being compared to each other.  My brother, only 10 months older, was in a grade above me and when he would go on to the next school I was free to be me.  We got along just fine but sometimes school and other groups compare you.  We both took typing in high school back in the day when hardly any boys took typing.  Having me the girl and he the boy with the same typing teacher was difficult.  We weren't in the same class but when my mom went to see the teacher to inquire about how I was doing (her dream for me was to be a secretary) and the teacher gushed that my brother was a wiz...........it did not work out well inside the home.  We didn't care but our parents would argue.  My dad could not believe my mom would allow my brother to take typing, like she had any say in the matter.  My point is that being a brother and sister worked well for us because neither of us cared and supported each other through life even though we might have bickered being kids.  My sister and I would fight to the death even though we never hit each other but our screaming matches were legendary.  

This family has sooooooo many deep rooted problems and the mother has no self awareness to address and get over problems.  Each of the kids have deep rooted problems that they can't seem to get past.  In season 2, to me anyways, it may be the problems outweigh the good times and I don't enjoy that.

The producer last year said, less sadness, more joy next season, more laughs, we can't get too maudlin, well, I'm waiting.... lol

[MartyQui]

On 10/4/2017 at 3:02 AM, WhosThatGirl said:

 I mean.. if Kate were a teenager, this angsty speech would be a thing (we were all teens once and we all shouted things about and possibly to or parents) it also probably wouldn’t have been as harsh. The fact that Kate’s an adult, she could say the exact words that could hurt someone. And also.. knowing she shouldn’t say them.

I think this is insightful...in many ways, Kate's emotional growth stopped when her dad died, and in this episode we saw the result of that.  Also, what does Kate do for money?  Does Kevin support her?

[MaryPatShelby]

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 8:25 AM, laurakaye said:

And what happened to Kate's car?  Didn't they all leave the show together?  Did she leave her car at the gig?  Niggling details that shouldn't get glossed over in favor of making a story.

So glad someone mentioned this, because it took me right out of the story.  Kate drove and arrived ahead of Toby and Rebecca, who came in a different car, then they all rode back together afterward?  Come on show.  You may think the audience is easily manipulated (not me though!) but keep track of the details please, because WE do!

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, MaryPatShelby said:

So glad someone mentioned this, because it took me right out of the story.  Kate drove and arrived ahead of Toby and Rebecca, who came in a different car, then they all rode back together afterward?  Come on show.  You may think the audience is easily manipulated (not me though!) but keep track of the details please, because WE do!

Do we know that Kate drove?  Maybe Toby drove them all and Kate took a cab?  I don't recall seeing her driving either to Kevin's thing or from Kevin's thing to her own.

[Casually Observant]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Do we know that Kate drove?  Maybe Toby drove them all and Kate took a cab?  I don't recall seeing her driving either to Kevin's thing or from Kevin's thing to her own.

I know that a lot of people in LA use Uber to get places as the parking issues are unbelievably bad and when you don't have to drive, you don't.  Also, most places charge you to park in front of their business, so it would have been cheaper and quicker than trying to drive around and around looking for a non-existent parking space at night in the dark and then paying a parking fee.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Casually Observant said:

I know that a lot of people in LA use Uber to get places as the parking issues are unbelievably bad and when you don't have to drive, you don't.  Also, most places charge you to park in front of their business, so it would have been cheaper and quicker than trying to drive around and around looking for a non-existent parking space at night in the dark and then paying a parking fee.

Plus, assuming that Toby drove all four of them to the taping, Kate wouldn't have had her car with her anyway.  It wouldn't make any sense for four people leaving from the same place, going to the same place, and returning to the same place, to take two vehicles. Sure, that's not what ended up happening, but it was the plan when they set out.

[NutMeg]

12 hours ago, debraran said:

The producer last year said, less sadness, more joy next season, more laughs, we can't get too maudlin, well, I'm waiting.... lol

Haha, if they really said that, I'm waiting too. Last year was a mix of fun and emotionally charged moment, this season? not so much.

Or maybe I'm just becoming a grump. Don't mind me.

[debraran]

11 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

Haha, if they really said that, I'm waiting too. Last year was a mix of fun and emotionally charged moment, this season? not so much.

Or maybe I'm just becoming a grump. Don't mind me.

It was early in the year, this was article but I believe he changed it as the ratings went up and  interest in Jack became bigger. Only 3 shows, but the laughs have to come soon ; )

http://mashable.com/2017/03/15/this-is-us-season-2-jack-death-spoilers/#CDTIiIzfeiqR

[NutMeg]

25 minutes ago, debraran said:

It was early in the year, this was article but I believe he changed it as the ratings went up and  interest in Jack became bigger. Only 3 shows, but the laughs have to come soon ; )

http://mashable.com/2017/03/15/this-is-us-season-2-jack-death-spoilers/#CDTIiIzfeiqR

Hey, thanks, but that article is not really reassuring me in that regard :)

[chitowngirl]

Re: siblings swimming- my sister can swim, I cannot. I just never got the hang of treading water. I can get myself from one end of the pool to the other in some fashion, but I cannot stop in the middle.

Re: siblings in the same class- one of the reasons we chose school B over school A was because school A had one class per grade. Having my twins in the same grade from 3 yo preschool through 8th grade was asking an awful lot of them. I hated following my sister 4 years later and a cousin 2 years later and being compared to them. I went to a different high school just to have a fresh start.

[Paloma]

On 10/4/2017 at 0:38 AM, elle said:

I did not take Rebecca's comment about the crowd as negative.  Rebecca has sung in a bar, Kate knows this, Rebecca is passing on some advice based on experience.  However, Kate is predisposed to take anything her mother says as negative, not to say that she does not have reason, but said by anyone else it would not have sounded harsh.  To me, it was supportive because it implies that Kate will have more gigs and will get another chance to win over the crowd and/or get used to having people not listen to her because she is singing in a bar.

But also, I see the point being made by many that this is pattern that has been there since Kate was a child.  Rebecca thinks she is being helpful but is consciously or not making about her.  I did wonder what people would be saying if this was a father/son relationship and instead of singing as the shared dream it was baseball or football.

What Kate said to Rebecca "you exist" is stone cold and no one should ever have to hear that.

This episode hit me hard because I had a terrible relationship with my mother (we were estranged for much of my adult life) and a difficult relationship with my daughter for most of her life (especially when she was a teenager, but the tension flares up whenever we are together for more than a few days even though she is now 34). From my perspective the tension is a result of her being "mean" to me, as Kate is to Rebecca, because even as an adult and now a new mother she seems to revert to teenage "attitude" and nastiness after a short time together.  My daughter is a professional dancer and I have always showed support and pride without becoming a stage mom; I would never dream of saying something that could be taken as critical of a performance. But I can see Rebecca's comment about the crowd (and similarly the comment she made when Kate was practicing for the talent show) as coming from a protective feeling, from wanting Kate to have a better experience. The tension in my relationship with my daughter is often related to my overprotectiveness (thus, I often caution her about things she should do to protect her own and now her child's health and safety) and also to the fact that she often speaks to me critically or scornfully when I say or do things that do not live up to her standards (e.g., she thinks I should buy only food that is organic and/or from a local farmer, even when that is inconvenient for me, and that I should be more politically active in the causes she thinks are important (we have the same political leanings); and she gets annoyed when I get stressed about things like trying to get to an appointment or train on time). Basically, it often seems that what I am doing wrong is that I exist, so that comment from Kate to Rebecca cut me like a knife. And, of course, she never acts or speaks that way to my husband; like Jack, he can do no wrong. It drives me crazy that she has no expectations for him to live up to her standards of eating organically, being politically active, being calm all the time, etc.

Having said all that, the amazing thing about this episode was that it made me see things not only from my daughter's perspective but from my mother's perspective.  Most people who knew my mother would agree that she was emotionally abusive and probably mentally ill, but after seeing this episode I look back and realize that things I said or did probably made her feel the same way that my daughter makes me feel.  I felt that it was justified at the time, but even if it was justified by her behavior, my words and actions must have hurt her deeply. And after she died I found some old letters indicating that she had a similarly difficult relationship with her mother (I already knew that her father was emotionally abusive and that she was mostly estranged from him). So the pattern continues generation after generation, even if the issues that cause the conflicts change. It is all so sad.

Sorry for the TMI! 

[dcubed]

On 10/19/2017 at 9:00 AM, Paloma said:

So the pattern continues generation after generation, even if the issues that cause the conflicts change. It is all so sad.

Wishing you all the best as you work through issues with your daughter.  Glad you are gaining some insights from the show.