Californication - General Discussion

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, this episode was exactly what I thought it would be: Hank reminiscing about his relationship with Karen. Yeah, we get it. It has been a neverending cycle of fucking and fighting. Their relationship deteriorates to the point where they're cheating and screaming and driving recklessly and accusing each other of all kinds of stuff and just as they're about to throw the towel in, they have amazing sex which convinces them that they can make things work. It's so annoying to watch. I'm not nearly as old as Karen and Hank, but even I know that they don't have a healthy mature relationship. They're just stuck in their old patterns, bad habits, and perpetual dysfunction.

 

As I was watching this episode, I found myself wondering which outcome I would like to watch less: Karen dying and Hank self-flagellating himself to the point where he either vows to become celibate or drinks himself into oblivion OR Karen recovering so she can reconcile with Hank.

[ganesh]

If they reconcile, I would consider this tv series a complete failure. 

[whiporee]

Man, and I was hoping by the title Faith was coming back.

 

I loved Faith. 

[Hecate7]

I used to want them to reconcile so badly I could hardly stand it. Hank hasn't so much cheated on Karen, as gone ahead with his life whenever Karen dumped him again. Karen, on the other hand, does tend to color outside the lines. She has never actually committed to the relationship, but has always had one foot out the door. Her refusal to commit might be one reason Hank can't get past her.

 

When she flipped out over him sleeping with someone an entire year before he even met her, I think that was the end for me. I no longer get what Hank sees in her, and that's really weird, because I think Natasha McElhone is literally the most beautiful woman in the world.

 

They referenced a test again. I am fully expecting that Rath and Julia actually slept together and just don't remember it, and that Rath, not Hank, is Levon's father.

[whiporee]

I'm sure you're right about the test, but I don't think it will be Raff -- I think it will be Eddie Nero. Two references are enough Chekov's gun for me. He was an actor back then, he's shorter than Hank and inherently crazy. I think i read that Rob Lowe  was making a cameo this season. So I'm thinking he shows up for a stunt cast, he sees Julia, they remember stuff and there we go. Poignant moment with Hank and Levon and he goes back to Becca and Karen because .. whatever. 

 

On a side note, i always liked Becca, but I'm amazed at how much more energy the show has had this year without her and Karen around. If they had changed their focus five seasons ago and just had the thing be about a crazy writer doing his crazy writer thing instead of the let's beat-up-Hank-because-Karen-thinks-he's-a-jerk-for-some-reason fest it turned into, it could have been a lot more. 

 

One last thing -- a pronounced lack of nudity this year. What gives, Showtime?

[ganesh]

 

Hank hasn't so much cheated on Karen, as gone ahead with his life whenever Karen dumped him again.

I find it ridiculous that a single, sexually active person is berated by their former partner for being single and sexually active. It's like Karen is expecting she and Hank "to be on break" and Hank has to just hang around and be her boyfriend until she decides it's time for them to get together again. 

 

Granted, it's a little silly the number of women that have thrown themselves at Hank, but the show has gone out of its way to show that it's always been consensual, and devoted a huge flashback to establish that he's always been monogamous to Karen when they're officially together, so I just don't see that he's this awful person for being single and sexually active that seems to piss off Karen so much. 

[DrLar]

A bit disappointed that Karen didn't die and most of the 1/2 hour were flashbacks I didn't want to see again.. 

 

At this point of the series almost ending they had to make a 90% filler episode? I guess the writers are as lazy as Hank

[Hecate7]

I just had an awful thought. What if Levon IS Hank's, but Becca isn't?

[Kathira]

I like Hank and Julia together. Their stoned love making was sweet and sexy, and they play off each other really well. Heather Graham and David Duchovny have real chemistry - something Hank and Karen haven't had for years. I hate that the endgame for the show is still apparently Hank and Karen. No doubt this accident and near death for Karen (I don't see them really killing her - it's not that kind of show) is intended to scare Hank out of his dalliance with Julia and remind him of his "true love." Ugh. It reminds me of How I Met Your Mother, where the producers were so devoted to Ted and Robin that they couldn't see how much the show and the characters had changed over the years.

 

I also want to say that the "cuckold" fantasy of your partner with someone else isn't exactly uncommon. I think the show isn't daring enough to really go there with Stu and Marcy and Runkle, but having the three of them ending up in a poly relationship would be great (and funny).

Edited June 8, 2014 by Kathira

[ganesh]

I also want to say that the "cuckold" fantasy of your partner with someone else isn't exactly uncommon. I think the show isn't daring enough to really go there with Stu and Marcy and Runkle, but having the three of them ending up in a poly relationship would be great (and funny).

No, it really isn't. And if Marcy and Runkle are into it, what's the big deal? I didn't like Hank being so disapproving of it. It's not like Marcy didn't want to have sex with Runkle anymore. Lots of couples have kinky fantasy play as a way to spice things up. 

[jenrising]

I just had an awful thought. What if Levon IS Hank's, but Becca isn't?

 

Karen would find some way to be mad at Hank about that too.

[Kathira]

Ugh. A show full of flashbacks, and Hank even got to learn a life lesson from a Magical Negro. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro  If the nun had offered him a blow job at the end of her sympathetic speech, that would have been funny. How many episodes of this mess are left?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Kathira

[Lone Wolf]

One last thing -- a pronounced lack of nudity this year. What gives, Showtime?

 

 

Wordy McWord.  Especially after this Very Special Episode, there's becoming increasingly less compelling reasons to watch.

[CodeNameDuchess]

Gah, this show is circling the drain!  Another flashback episode that didn't move the story forward.  It's like the entire writer's room checked out. 

 

Man, and I was hoping by the title Faith was coming back.

 

I loved Faith. 

Me too!  Maggie Grace was really great in that role.

 

Ah well, at least the next episode features

the amazing Rob Lowe as Eddie Nero!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Is that a glimmer of hope I see? Karen telling Hank that they don't work at the beginning of the episode and then later telling him that she can't be with him at the end makes me think hallelujah, finally one person in this relationship sees how terrible they are together! But I feel like Karen and Hank are endgame so the writers are just pulling them apart now so they can reunite in the finale.

 

Heh, I kind of loved that the hooker kept recognizing everyone there. I think that says less about her and more about the guys we see on this show.

[CodeNameDuchess]

I love Eddie Nero.  It's nice to see Rob Lowe flexing his comic muscles. 

 

I hope this series doesn't end like season 1 with Hank and Karen riding off into the sunset.  Their love is toxic, even with all the wordplay/foreplay. 

[Nightbaron]

I don't know if they can really make Hank and Karen "endgame" on this show, because even if they end the series back together, wouldn't we just assume they'll break up again a few months down the road?  Unless they end the series with a flash forward of them growing old together... which I don't think would work for this show at all.

 

Are we supposed to see Becca this season at all?  I really want to see her meet Levon.

[ganesh]

What was this garbage? 

 

 

Ugh, this episode was exactly what I thought it would be: Hank reminiscing about his relationship with Karen. Yeah, we get it. It has been a neverending cycle of fucking and fighting.

What I saw, and I don't think I'm alone was (again) that nothing Hank is going to do will every be good enough for Karen. He's busy because his movie was in production, so unless he can devote 110% of his time to doing exactly whatever Karen wants, she complains about it. 

 

TPTB (and this is true on many shows) really need to step back sometimes and think about the show that they have. They may want to the show to be about something, but when you look at the whole thing, it's really not. I find it hard pressed to take anything away from this show but that Hank isn't nearly as much of an 'asshole' as they keep *telling* me, because from what I've *seen* that's not the case.

 

It was like this with Big Love. TPTB screamed to the sky that Bill was 'heroic' and 'principled'. When in fact on the show he was a total misogynist who preyed upon underaged women. 

 

I also don't like that Hank is being so judgmental of Marcy and Runkle's sex life. He offered his opinion because it was asked, but I just found him to be derisive.

 

And, of course, Karen is the only person who can get into a serious accident and still bitch at Hank from her hospital bed.

Edited June 13, 2014 by ganesh

[ganesh]

That's great that Karen just lied to Hank about having sex with Nero for all this time, while Hank has to be raked over the coals for being truthful even though Karen doesn't believe him. 

 

What's with Levon's hooker addiction? Can't he just look at porn and jerk off?

 

And the previews of course look like everything is Hank's fault again.

Edited June 13, 2014 by ganesh

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Are we supposed to see Becca this season at all? I really want to see her meet Levon.

She was in the preview for episode 11 so she's definitely going to be back, but in the clip I remember she was with Hank and Karen, not Levon.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The cast reminisces about their seven seasons together:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Well, that episode made me appreciate that I got a mostly Becca-free season. I never liked the actress or the character and her brief appearance in this episode confirmed that I like the show better without her. I always disliked her flat affect and blank face but now it's developed into an extremely bitchy tone/facial expression. On the one hand, I can see her point - Hank has made a lot of mistakes with his relationships, so he's really in no place to be judging her relationship or offering fatherly advice.

 

But on the other hand, I agree with Hank that there is no rush to get married. When he asked why now and she said, "He asked and I answered," I thought ugh, that is a terrible reason to get married. You should get married because you love each other and because you want to be married and spend the rest of your lives together. You shouldn't get married just because someone asked. To me, that's like saying that I ate an entire pizza because someone offered it to me.

 

While I agree that Hank has done some shitty things, I really disliked that Becca was such a bitch about learning about Levon. First of all, she was totally rude to Levon, especially when she asked him not to refer to Hank as his dad and then she got pissy and said, "No, he's MY father." If you think you're grown up enough to decide to get married, then you're grown up enough not to be a territorial bitch to a kid who just met his dad for the first time a few months ago. I was actually surprised that she didn't tell Levon he was lucky NOT to grow up with Hank as a father. I get that this was a lot of information for her to take in, but damn, girl. Don't take it out on Levon. Becca, of all people, should understand that kids are not responsible for their parents' choices/mistakes.

 

And in Hank's defense (ha, who ever thought the day would come when I would defend Hank?), it's not like Hank knew about Levon and Julia for all these years and kept it a secret. He just found out and didn't want to tell Becca over the phone while she was in Europe, which is understandable (and what was the alternative? Tell her to come home from Europe immediately so he could tell her in person? Send her an email?). So his big crime is that he slept with someone before he met Karen? Hank has made some bad choices, but this is not one of them.

 

That's why I hated when she said that she that this was the latest in his chronic series of fuck ups and being confronted with the wreckage of his past.Hate to break it to you, kid, but both of your parents had lives before you came along. Everyone has a past, even if it's inconvenient for you.

 

But as someone whose parents disliked a lot of my boyfriends, I liked that she made it clear she was not going to be swayed by Hank's anti-marriage arguments and that she wasn't going to let him make her miserable about her decision.

[ganesh]

 

Matt considers how a few key decisions could have made this a better show!

That's really the point of a lot of shows: They actually could have been good, there's a sprinking of good in there, but TPTB are caught up in their own BS that they just can't do it.

 

What I always say is: know what show you have, TPTBs. What show you think you have may not actually be the show you have. Once you put it out there, it's not totally your show anymore. I'm not saying TPTBs have to do the show according to what fans want. However, look back at this show: where is it in the show that Karen is this wonderful ideal woman? It's just not there. Selling Hank/Karen as the OTP is just hollow. One of the genuine things on the show is that Hank is not that bad of a parent. He's actually good at times. But this was summarily dropped for some reason. It was far more interesting watching Hank and Becca than Hank pining for Karen.

 

Another thing I would have added was that Hank should have been convicted of statutory rape of Mia. I don't think he should have gone to jail and based on the actual facts (I think he did ask Mia if she was over 18). Over the run of the show he's never faced any real consequences for anything. Even Levon is a cop out because no one is asking for financial support and he's already an adult now. Not that Bad Things have to happen to Hank, but one asks: What has this show been about? When it ends are any of the characters going to be different than they were when the show started?

 

Another thing that's a problem with a lot of shows is that no one wants to make a good show. It either has to be The Best Thing Ever or About Real Things. Not every show is going to be great. Just statistically, it can't happen. But, because there are so many outlets for original content now, a ton more shows can be good, more than any time in tv. 

 

They could have made a good show here and they didn't. 

Edited June 16, 2014 by ganesh

[Mama No Life]

God this show grates.

I am so tired of hearing about Smurf's wonder snatch and Stu's big dong and how Hank is to blame for everything and how Karen is kissed by the wings of angels. VOMIT

It's a mighty fall when the only person I like is Becca b/c she hasn't been on all season....

[jenrising]

It's really the central problem with this show for me. Every season Becca and Karen get worse. And they're supposed to be things Hank wants to be a better man for. But they're so awful, I want them both to drive off a cliff. Ugh.

[ganesh]

Hank has made a lot of mistakes with his relationships.

What mistakes has he made that have been so egregious as Karen and Becca portray though? This is the central problem with the show. 

 

Has he ever cheated on Karen when they were together? The show bent over backwards showing us no. 

 

Is he really that bad of a parent? I don't think so. He doesn't condescend to Becca and tends to give her enough leeway to explore life on her own. 

 

So, what then? He likes to fuck women and a lot of women proposition him. Sometimes he fucks women that he shouldn't. And? 

 

Mia obviously was a mistake, but he didn't know at the time, and he ended up quite protective of her and immediately shut down her propositions, once he found she was underage. 

 

Has he ever been dishonest to Karen about his feelings for her and what he wants? 

 

I just don't get what the characters are saying versus what I've seen. Drama follows Hank around based on his company. But that's part of his profession. If Hank just buckled down and worked for a newspaper or something like gawker and wrote copy all day, Karen would be bitching that he was boring.

[whiporee]

Okay, I have a theory. We're going to be St. Elsewhered.

 

I have no spoiler info beyond the preview. But as I thought about the last episode, things only make sense from a writer's narrative viewpoint. No man would so actively pursue Karen after she's so plainly told him they don't work. No couple is so obsessed about someone't snatch or a wonder penis. Movie stars don't just show up in character without explanation, and points of contention aren't so easily explained. And a supporting character doesn't so plainly say to the protagonist what the issues are. 

 

But in a novel, many characters exist only to push specific plot points, and as we reach the end of this thing, I'm thinking we've been watching the development of a pretty bad novel, probably one called Californication.

 

So that's what I'm thinking we've been watching -- the mechanics of the writer's mind as he's working through the last bit of plots, and he needs to wrap up the novel. 

 

As for this episode, I laughed out loud at the dinner scene until it became about Karen being wonderful. 

[Kathira]

You know, Whiporee, you may be right. That's a great theory. I can see the last shot being a store display of the book. Or maybe it's Becca's book. That would be better than if it was Hank's.

 

I can also see it being a dream, or death coma fantasy from the end of season 5 on. That's pretty sad, isn't it?

 

It would be nice if they just ended on all of them, Hank, Karen, Becca, Julia, Levon, Marcy and Runkle laughing together as friends. I don't need there to be a definitive Hank/Karen resolution. Just them going on into the future as friends who love each other and understand each other's faults without needing to be exclusive lovers. I suppose the chances of that happening are small, though.

 

Another ending scene thought - Hank and Karen driving into the sunset on the Pacific Coast Highway in Hank's convertible. This could be good or bad, depending on what they do leading up to it.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Kathira

[millahnna]

Matt considers how a few key decisions could have made this a better show!

 

The thing I find fascinating about this show is that it somehow manages to be the male fantasy tittyfest thing and have Karen be completely and utterly wrong about Hank on many levels, all at the same time.  It's bizarre.  I mean Karen wanting Hank to grow up and "actually try at something"?  Totally makes sense.  Her not liking his promiscuity when they're broken up?  I find that one to bit a bit of a complicated mixed bag but I certainly don't fault her for not liking it.  But flat out treating him like he's cheated on her; the show has gone out of its way with flashbacks to show us that is not true.  Yet it often feels like the entire world in the show thinks it is.  It's very confusing. 

 

Oh well, it made me laugh more than it should have over the years so I'm all good, I guess. 

[ganesh]

 

I mean Karen wanting Hank to grow up and "actually try at something"?  Totally makes sense.

Does it though? He's a best selling author whose book was turned into a a successful movie. Fucking and Punching was by all regards critically acclaimed, though Mia stole it. Lew's book was successful too, iirc. His been writing his whole life, and for the most part, everyone in the show universe acknowledges that he's good at it. 

 

What exactly has Karen accomplished in the mean time?

They give the impression that Hank is just banging around. 

[Nightbaron]

From last episode's thread:

 

So that's what I'm thinking we've been watching -- the mechanics of the writer's mind as he's working through the last bit of plots, and he needs to wrap up the novel.

 

After this episode, I'm thinking this theory is correct, except as a TV show instead of a novel.  We're basically watching the show that the "real" Hank Moody made. 

[ganesh]

I'd be onboard with this. I'm doubtful this is what TPTBs planned from the start, but it would smooth out the weirdness that we've all pointed out.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I hope that's not what it turns out to be because it's not very original. It would be a cop out IMO but I could see them doing that, especially given Rath's advice that Hank should write a show about his screwed up family and friends.

[jennylauren123]

So Heather Graham is indeed beautiful, but wow is she a horrible actress. Just horrible. And I don't mean when she's putting on the bad actress bit for the show. I mean she's just terrible. All the time. I don't care how angelic your face is, it's difficult to watch such bad acting.

[Mama No Life]

Hasn't had her own series of screw-ups? Bill? Richard? I get so tired of Hank getting so much flak for doing very little. Karen wouldn't even know about most of the women he's slept with if she and Becca were not so OVERLY involved in his life. It's not normal for the mother of your child, with whom you are NOT in a relationship, to be in your business so often. Their lives are so intertwined it's abnormal.

The Runks are wackadoo.

[ganesh]

Karen was literally in the process of getting married and walked out on Bill. Not that Bill was anything great, but if you're at that point on your wedding day, you've had those doubts a lot longer than just the five minutes before walking down the aisle. Bill might have been douchey, but you don't do that. 

 

The only thing Hank did was really bad was Mia. I still think he should have been found guilty. Other than that Karen always gets mad at him when he has sex even though she screams at him that they aren't together. I don't get it.

[Hecate7]

Hank was found guilty of Mia. He did two years in jail. I am really sick of Karen and at this point, I really wish he'd given up on her two seasons ago, but I get that the heart wants what it wants. Becca is annoying, too.

 

Both Karen and Becca "love" Hank under the condition that he be perfect, which he isn't. He does not require perfection of them. He just loves them unconditionally. Karen has been in a committed relationship with someone else, from the start of the show. Different guys, different commitments. And she is angry every single time Hank does anything with anyone--it's like he's supposed to be in storage forever, just in case she wants him, and completely faithful just in case she changes her mind, while all she ever tells him is that it's never going to happen.

 

To quote Shakespeare, "election makes not up under such conditions." It's a very unequal, unhealthy relationship, in which he loves her because she's the one woman who isn't stalking him or obsessing over him or throwing herself at him, but she in fact does not love him. If she did, he would not love her. And there it is. This is not and never has been a relationship of two equals struggling to get along. They are not equally invested in the relationship, and never were. Atticus Fetch has a healthier relationship. The Runkles have a healthier relationship.

 

It's weird and annoying that Becca is blind to this.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Hecate7

[ganesh]

 

Hank was found guilty of Mia. He did two years in jail.

What? I thought he got off? I thought he got probation. He hallucinated about being in jail.

[TVFan17]

It's really the central problem with this show for me. Every season Becca and Karen get worse. And they're supposed to be things Hank wants to be a better man for. But they're so awful, I want them both to drive off a cliff. Ugh.

 

Yes, yes, yes!  I have always disliked Becca -- I just hate that voice, that scowl and that perpetual emo demeanor.  So she can definitely go over the cliff. 

 

And I am so sick of Karen being made out to be this angelic goddess who is gracing Hank with her mere presence, but shaking her finger at him and stomping off in a huff when she is reminded once again that he is not perfect.  It's old news already.  He's got his flaws, but she needs to give it a rest.  She even asked him at one point, "Don't you ever get tired" or some such thing, implying that they should move on and find new people.  They have both tried to find new people in the past, and yet they couldn't stay away from each other long enough to really ever find someone good enough and worthy enough to stick with.  They are constantly in each other's lives, even when they don't need to be.  I don't care about Hank and Karen as a couple!  They have never been apart, with anyone decent and normal, for a long enough time for me to care about them getting back together.  The writers of this show obviously think I care, but they're wrong.

 

Hasn't had her own series of screw-ups? Bill? Richard? I get so tired of Hank getting so much flak for doing very little. Karen wouldn't even know about most of the women he's slept with if she and Becca were not so OVERLY involved in his life. It's not normal for the mother of your child, with whom you are NOT in a relationship, to be in your business so often. Their lives are so intertwined it's abnormal.

The Runks are wackadoo.

 

Yes, yes, yes to all of this too!  Hank and Karen are constantly intertwined and it is not normal -- especially in this day and age, when many former couples who share children have moved on to new relationships, but still manage to not be involved in everything their exes are doing in their personal lives.

 

 

 

I agree that this looks like it is going to end up being the story that Hank wrote for a TV series, as advised by Rath. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by Sherry67

[Hecate7]

What? I thought he got off? I thought he got probation. He hallucinated about being in jail.

Oh, yeah...dammit, you're right. The judge let him have probation for Becca's sake, and then Becca and Karen went away for 2 years anyway and had nothing to do with him, or something like that.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I have always disliked Becca -- I just hate that voice, that scowl and that perpetual emo demeanor.  So she can definitely go over the cliff.

I have never liked her either. Her monotone voice, her condescending attitude, and her blank face do nothing for me. But even more than that, it drives me crazy when she (like Karen) blames Hank for how AWFUL her life is.

 

I'm not excusing Hank's behavior because, again, he hasn't been father of the year all the time, but he has been a very loving involved father, especially in the earlier seasons. Aside from her wanting to drop out of college to go to Europe, having an older boyfriend, and deciding to get married when she's all of 20 (is that how old she is now?), he's been really supportive of her. He encouraged her to write and sing and play the guitar and be herself. To be fair, I wouldn't be very supportive of my kid dropping out of college, having a much older boyfriend, or deciding to get married while in her early 20s either so I don't think Hank expressing his concern with those decisions makes him a bad parent.

 

No, Becca hasn't had the perfect pastel suburban childhood, but she wouldn't have liked that anyway. She has always had a roof over her head, food on the table, and two parents who love her very much, which is more than a lot of people can say. No, Hank and Karen have not provided an ideal relationship for her to idealize but as the saying goes, most people look at their parents' relationship and either try to emulate it or choose the exact opposite. At least her parents have provided her a great example of what NOT to do.

 

And let's be honest - how much of this is Hank's fault and how much of it is Karen's fault? Hank is Karen's backburner guy. She keeps him around not just because he's Becca's father but because she loves knowing that she has him on the hook and that he will keep chasing after her. Karent could have chosen to cut Hank off from anything but platonic friendship and coparenting Becca but she doesn't. She treats him like her life partner when it suits her and she treats him like her annoying cheating ex when it suits her (and as people have mentioned in previous discussions, Hank has never actually cheated on Karen but every time she finds out he has had his penis anywhere but her bedroom, she starts clutching her pearls). She love the attention and she lovew knowing that he will always come running whenever she snaps her fingers. If their relationship is dysfunctional, Karen needs to take responsibility for her part in that and how it has affected Becca.

 

But my point is that Becca has had it pretty good, yet she acts like Hank has ruined her life and destroyed any chance she ever had at happiness. I think everyone in this family needs to take responsibility for their choices, their lives, and their happiness. Fine, Hank isn't the perfect guy but he's been a pretty good dad. Becca blames so much of her unhappiness on Hank and it bugs the shit out of me. I'd really like to know exactly how she would want Hank to be different. The past is the past and there's no undoing that, so what would she want him to do now that would wipe that perpetual grimace off her face?

[BigDfromLA]

I think the show changed (got worse) between Seasons 4 and 5. First of all, the pilot episode (Season 1, Episode 1) was outstanding...from the church/fantasy scene, to his encounter with Mia and then later meeting her again at Karen's. Hank's reaction when finding out she was 16 was absolutely classic. I liked the progress of that story over the first four seasons, and it reached a point at season four's end when Hank reached rock bottom. I also enjoyed his Season 2 stint as a college teacher (and its opportunities it gave him to chase tail) and the Season 3 adventures with Lew.The season four ending would have been a good place to wrap the series. I think the last three seasons were sunk by their overriding themes...Season 5's hip hop storyline, Season 6 adventures with Atticus and rehab, and this Season's irritating long lost son. It just doesn't look right...the guy is too old to be believed as Heather Graham's son.

 

Yet, overall, the Hank character has been quite interesting to watch over the years. A guy just floundering through life, who just can't get his act together. That is Hank Moody. Interesting to see how it all ends.

[Hecate7]

I think it's really silly and premature for Karen to be pushing Hank to contact Becca, or for Hank to be as involved with Levon as he is. He really should have a test done, first.

[Hecate7]

Heather Graham is older than you think she is.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

the guy is too old to be believed as Heather Graham's son.

Heather Graham is older than you think she is.

Heather Graham is 44 (she's six weeks younger than Natascha McElhone). Levon is supposed to be in his early 20s (Oliver Cooper is 24 in real life), maybe a year or two older than Becca who just dropped out of college (so she's 19-21? I can't remember exactly how old she is on the show but Madeline Martin is 21 in real life).

[ganesh]

Several people suggested Hank get a test, and he's even snarked like, 'this is my son, or that's what we're going with right now.' I don't know why he didn't. I don't know why busybody Karen didn't insist on it either. Because if she did, you know he would.

[whiporee]

Too much Runkle penis. 

 

If you had gotten rid of 90 percent of Charlie (and I say this as someone who has liked Even Handler since "It's Like, You Know") they would have had a much better show. 

 

But the premise was they made a show about a guy who didn't give a shit, and that's just hard to really get emotionally behind. If Hank had cared about his writing, and the show had told us that he cared about his writing -- then it would have been a much better show. But instead we got a lot of Runkle penis.

 

With one left, I'm sticking with the idea that this has all been one-dimensional because it's creative fiction, either a novel or a TV show. 

[ganesh]

"It's Hank. Anything's possible."

 

No, Karen, it's not. Since it's canon that Hank has been faithful and monogamous to you when you've been together. I'm glad Hank told her to knock it off. It shouldn't be too much to expect some internal consistency. The show isn't that complicated. 

 

I mean, not for anything. It's weird to find out you have a grown up son, ok. But it's not the end of the world and it's not a slap in your face Karen, since this happened before he even knew you. 

 

I like the actor and I think she does a good job, but they write Becca so horribly. And Levon so stupidly. Why is going out and getting a job too much for him? Why is he always whining?

 

To be fair, though, Becca wasn't mad or blamed anything on Hank about Levon. 

 

However, I'd like to know what exactly are Hank's "chronic" fuck ups, and seriously, any good parent is going to want to question their not quite adult child about making a rash decision about marriage. 

 

And let's be honest - how much of this is Hank's fault and how much of it is Karen's fault?

 

TPTBs need to seriously ask themselves this.

 

 

When he asked why now and she said, "He asked and I answered," I thought ugh, that is a terrible reason to get married.

 

I'm surprised Hank didn't say, "if that's the reason, then you aren't ready." 

 

And Karen has no problem with this?

 

I like how Karen didn't call ahead that she was coming over with Becca either. Because of course, Hank is always at her beck and call.

Edited June 27, 2014 by ganesh

[sistermagpie]

And Karen has no problem with this?

 

 

Isn't that always the way with Karen? She doesn't have a problem with anything other women, especially young women, do--in fact she outright encourages it, but once they do it it's another thing to blame on Hank. One of the worst was when she went on and on about her magical affair with her professor in college and how great it is to be with an older man to Mia while they were at the house of that rock star who was trying to sleep with her. On her way out she reminded Hank that it was his responsibility to make sure the guy didn't sleep with Mia. (Another fact that never gets brought up is that didn't Mia specifically target Hank because she was angry at Karen? Not that Karen's responsible for everything Mia does but it was another example of Karen positioning herself as the great parent that everybody loves when she was nothing of the kind.)

 

You can totally bet that Karen would encourage Becca now and if she was miserable commiserate with her on how Hank both ruined Becca's great marriage and also forced Becca to make the bad decision to get married when she obviously shouldn't have.

[ganesh]

I don't like the way she blindsided Hank about Becca getting married either. It's like she came over to his house and dropped it in his lap for him to deal with so she looks like the good guy. 

 

I mean come on, *any* parent worth a damn would immediately say, "we're talking about this with your father" and then call to let him know.