S03.E08: Slip

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God, I thought I was going to be the one to have a stroke watching Nacho messing with that medication! Oh my God so intense! Its crazy how much I've started rooting for Nacho in this season. Yeah he's a criminal and not in any way a good person, but he isn't unnecessarily cruel or sadistic, unlike a lot of the other villains (looking at you, Hector) and right now, his goals (killing his evil boss before he drags his dad into the business) are at least somewhat noble. I do wonder how Nacho came to be connected to the drug world, considering his dad is such a nice, honest guy. In a way, I think there's a parallel to Jimmy and his father. Jimmy was the super pleasant nice guy who everyone loved, but they also took advantage of his trusting nature. This would eventually lead to Jimmy becoming Slippin Jimmy and will inevitably lead to the birth of Saul Goodman. Nacho is also the criminal son of an honest man, but we don't see him having any resentment towards his dad for making an honest living. Not that everyone whos a criminal was raised by criminals, or vice versa, but I would like to know more of how he ended up here.

Its honestly rather sad that Jimmy is using his considerable intelligence and charisma for petty low level bullshit. He could have done so much more, could be spending his future drinking mojitos on a beach, instead of managing a mall Cinabun place. I will admit, I do enjoy watching his hustle though, especially when its towards people who were assholes. I don't think his threat to the parole guy was his best, but I think he read him as a guy who loves having tiny amounts of power over people, but when he gets even a small amount of pushback, he will immediately back down. I can see that guy being the sort who is really just kind of a wimp who would run and hide the second a mild conflict happens.

I never thought I would be rooting for Chuck, but I actually did have some nice feelings towards him when he was so happy about doing his own shopping, and when he was planning his party. I'm sure by next week he will do something else to make me hate him again, but this was actually a good episode for him.

[ShadowFacts]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh my God, I thought I was going to be the one to have a stroke watching Nacho messing with that medication! Oh my God so intense! Its crazy how much I've started rooting for Nacho in this season. Yeah he's a criminal and not in any way a good person, but he isn't unnecessarily cruel or sadistic, unlike a lot of the other villains (looking at you, Hector) and right now, his goals (killing his evil boss before he drags his dad into the business) are at least somewhat noble. I do wonder how Nacho came to be connected to the drug world, considering his dad is such a nice, honest guy. In a way, I think there's a parallel to Jimmy and his father. Jimmy was the super pleasant nice guy who everyone loved, but they also took advantage of his trusting nature. This would eventually lead to Jimmy becoming Slippin Jimmy and will inevitably lead to the birth of Saul Goodman. Nacho is also the criminal son of an honest man, but we don't see him having any resentment towards his dad for making an honest living. Not that everyone whos a criminal was raised by criminals, or vice versa, but I would like to know more of how he ended up here.

That's an interesting perspective that I hadn't thought of.  Nacho also displayed a bit of Jimmy-style contempt for the jerk when he went after Pryce's baseball card collection in his house.  As to their fathers, Nacho may have more respect for his father as a cultural matter.  We also see Tuco's loyalty to Tio after his stroke in BB.  But then again we see the family loyalty in Jimmy in taking care of Chuck even after he's found out that Chuck was behind not hiring him at HHM.  I think Jimmy's comments to Marco only showed part of his complex feelings for his father; Chuck said no one cried harder than Jimmy did at the funeral. 

[JudyObscure]

moved

Edited June 9, 2017 by JudyObscure

[rue721]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I do wonder how Nacho came to be connected to the drug world, considering his dad is such a nice, honest guy. In a way, I think there's a parallel to Jimmy and his father. Jimmy was the super pleasant nice guy who everyone loved, but they also took advantage of his trusting nature. This would eventually lead to Jimmy becoming Slippin Jimmy and will inevitably lead to the birth of Saul Goodman. Nacho is also the criminal son of an honest man, but we don't see him having any resentment towards his dad for making an honest living.

I do see the parallel, but I think a really fundamental difference between Nacho's father and Jimmy's is that Nacho's father is *successful.* His business is successful, he can take care of himself, and he can take care of his family. If the world were as honest and responsible as Nacho's father, it would be a better place.

But Jimmy's father wasn't successful -- he couldn't take care of himself or his family. He lost the business, and then he died very soon after. If the world were as sweet and selfless as Jimmy's father, it would be chaos or an hardscrabble, dying commune. After all, someone does need to be practical, and do the dirty work. Even if people were all kind, life itself is still hard and will still kick you in the ass.

I think Jimmy's resentment toward his father is based on his father not being able to look out for himself or take care of himself -- and in all Jimmy's stories, it seems like Jimmy tried to pick up the slack for him, and tell him what was up, and yet Mr McGill refused to help himself. IMO there's a parallel to how Jimmy tried to pick up the slack for Chuck, too.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, scenario said:

I got a call from a guy with a thick Indian accent accent a few days ago telling me he was from Microsoft and that I need to do stuff with my computer. I've also got e-mail from a Nigerian Prince telling me if I just send him $500 he'll send me $50,000. I wonder who falls for these things. Now I've got an answer, the Community Service guy. Slippin Jimmy has been running scams on people for years. He can recognize a good mark from across the room. He's had a few days to size up TCG. He guessed right that TCG was an easy mark who would crumble under pressure of a lawyer. I just watched the scene again and TCG looked totally unsure of himself within 10 seconds of Jimmy starting his pitch. He was an easy mark and Slippin Jimmy knew it. 

I made that sarcastic remark in a group of women I'd just starting to hang out with, and embarrassingly discovered one of the women had. She was pretty sharp on a lot of things, but not computers. And apparently didn't have a suspicious bone in her body.

So, I figure TCG was pretty sharp in his areas of expertise, but could be scammed by someone else who seemed expert in something else.

Me, I just tell those "Microsoft" guys the truth - I work in IT, and with the police, so hang up now. And they do.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Clanstarling

[jww]

It was great to finally pin down the timeline of this show, courtesy of Kim's check: March 4, 2003!

 March 4th and the AC was on? It would have made more sense if Nacho turned up the thermostat for the furnace.  Albuquerque average temperature on that date is 57*-37*.  I can remember only one scene in either BB or BCS where the characters are dressed for cold weather-when the Whites go to Hank's house for dinner and Walt dismisses Glen as a loser.

[ShadowFacts]

59 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I do see the parallel, but I think a really fundamental difference between Nacho's father and Jimmy's is that Nacho's father is *successful.* His business is successful, he can take care of himself, and he can take care of his family. If the world were as honest and responsible as Nacho's father, it would be a better place.

It leaves open the question of why Nacho goes the drug route when his father makes an honest living.  I don't think we'll see much of his origins since he's an ancillary character (unless the showrunners keep him around because of his popularity a la Jesse in BB).   We've seen him stealing, beating someone up, being present when at least one person was murdered, and plotting to kill two of his criminal brethren.  I guess he wants more upward mobility than an upholstery shop affords, but he's obviously taking a wrong turn. 

[scenario]

10 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I made that sarcastic remark in a group of women I'd just starting to hang out with, and embarrassingly discovered one of the women had. Shewas pretty sharp on a lot of things, but not computers. And apparently didn't have a suspicious bone in her body.

Me, I just tell those "Microsoft" guys the truth - I work in IT, and with the police, so hang up now. And they do.

My point exactly. Intelligent people fall for obvious scams all the time. People are saying that it's unbelievable that Community Service Guy would have fallen for Jimmy's scam but I'd bet any police officer in the fraud division can tell you stories of lots of intelligent people falling for just as transparent scams. Slippin Jimmy is good at what he does. 

[rue721]

That wasn't a scam, though, it was a threat.

I dunno, your mileage may vary, but I found the whole sequence pretty goofy. Even the fact that after Jimmy got the $700, he was just laying there on the ground staring at it was goofy. All I could think is that he'd better be careful waving around all that money, because someone is sure to take it from him on the bus ride home.

But then, I also found him coming home from his pratfall with a valise full of cash was kind of clumsy and sloppy in terms of storytelling. Not awful, not "it could NEVER HAPPEN," just kind of graceless and predictable compared to how storylines in this series usually are written.

Listening to the podcast, it was apparently the writer's first episode that she wrote alone. Maybe her first episode of TV that she's ever written alone, I don't know. And IMO it showed. The writing wasn't really up to par -- at least not compared to the usual standard for this particular show. I want to cut her some slack, but I did think the community service stuff and maybe the Slipping Jimmy stuff in general was poorly written. Clunky at best. Oh well, she'll do better next time.

To balance out all that complaining... ;) I did really like Bob Odenkirk's acting in the flashback at the very start of the episode. IIRC the flashback was to the period of time when Jimmy was back at home after Chuck called him a chimp with a machine gun, and he really did have that same shut down, bitter, cold thing going on in the flashback as he did at the end of S1. I appreciated the consistency. It's also interesting to think that not long after seeing the old husk of the closed up store and belittling his parents' work there (and I guess his own work there, too), he decided to go back to ABQ because his clients were calling him. It was HIS business calling him back. And then he had that business taken away from him in the bar hearing.

He deserved the bar hearing and all, but it's still pretty sad. I feel bad for Jimmy -- he really doesn't handle stress very well.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

My point exactly. Intelligent people fall for obvious scams all the time. People are saying that it's unbelievable that Community Service Guy would have fallen for Jimmy's scam but I'd bet any police officer in the fraud division can tell you stories of lots of intelligent people falling for just as transparent scams. Slippin Jimmy is good at what he does. 

Agreed. I found it perfectly believable based on my own experience in life, as well as in working for a municipality.

Oh, and also on the fact I had an uncle who was a con man who talked sweeter than Jimmy on his best day.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Clanstarling

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, jww said:

March 4th and the AC was on? It would have made more sense if Nacho turned up the thermostat for the furnace.

You're overlooking the heat from the kitchen, which is represented by the steam coming up from just behind the counter (raw heat isn't as photogenic). If they've got anything like a pizza or toasting oven, the AC would be running all year round while the place is open. Hector could have kept his jacket if he moved closer to the window, but he would have opened himself up to attack by a gunman.

[ShellSeeker]

I've moved a few posts involving a discussion of sex vs gender into the Small Talk thread. This is a good conversation, but off topic from the content of the episode. 

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

To balance out all that complaining... ;) I did really like Bob Odenkirk's acting in the flashback at the very start of the episode. IIRC the flashback was to the period of time when Jimmy was back at home after Chuck called him a chimp with a machine gun, and he really did have that same shut down, bitter, cold thing going on in the flashback as he did at the end of S1. I appreciated the consistency. It's also interesting to think that not long after seeing the old husk of the closed up store and belittling his parents' work there (and I guess his own work there, too), he decided to go back to ABQ because his clients were calling him. It was HIS business calling him back. And then he had that business taken away from him in the bar hearing.

I'm not clear on when the flashback was supposed to be.  Was it to the time you describe, or was it earlier?  For some reason I made the assumption it was the earlier instance, maybe based on the way the two guys looked.   I would actually like that better because it would show how Jimmy was cynical and scammy but turned that around for years, before returning to it in the present. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

15 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I do wonder how Nacho came to be connected to the drug world, considering his dad is such a nice, honest guy.

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

It leaves open the question of why Nacho goes the drug route when his father makes an honest living.  I don't think we'll see much of his origins since he's an ancillary character (unless the showrunners keep him around because of his popularity a la Jesse in BB).   We've seen him stealing, beating someone up, being present when at least one person was murdered, and plotting to kill two of his criminal brethren.  I guess he wants more upward mobility than an upholstery shop affords, but he's obviously taking a wrong turn

I assume he wanted access to a lot more money than he could make working for his father.  It could also be a matter of respect.  If he's not aligned with a group, he might be seen as weak.  Now, he's feared by plenty of people.  Perversely, he might also be smarter than average, bored by his work for his father, and since education doesn't seem to be viewed as a stepping stone to success, he took the road that seemed to promise him more.

Edited June 9, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Ellaria]

A fabulous episode! Nacho is an incredibly complex character and Michael Mando is proving to be one of the outstanding talents in this show (a show filled with talent). Those scenes of him filling the pills, practicing the toss into the jacket pocket and the actual switch were beautifully done. BCS - like BB before it - excels at framing scenes and building tension simply by their choice of where to position the camera.

I'm a little worried about my girl, Kim. Is she headed to great success or a great fall? I want her to have a good life at the end.

Right now, this is simply the best show on TV. It has taken me awhile to fall in love with this show but S3 has done it.

[Bryce Lynch]

On 6/9/2017 at 10:35 AM, scenario said:

My point exactly. Intelligent people fall for obvious scams all the time. People are saying that it's unbelievable that Community Service Guy would have fallen for Jimmy's scam but I'd bet any police officer in the fraud division can tell you stories of lots of intelligent people falling for just as transparent scams. Slippin Jimmy is good at what he does. 

I still don't think that particular person would fall for the lawsuit bluff.  But, my main complaint is not that it wasn't realistic, but that, by BB/BCS standards it seemed like lazy writing that lack creativity.  They have written so many great, creative scams and other methods characters have used to get what they want or out of tight spots.  This one was clichéd.  

[scenario]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I still don't think that particular person would fall for the lawsuit bluff.  But, my main complaint is not that it wasn't realistic, but that, by BB/BCS standards it seemed like lazy writing that lack creativity.  They have written so many great, creative scams and other methods characters have used to get what they want or out of tight spots.  This one was clichéd.  

I think we've come to an agreement. The scene was plausible but ordinary. The writing was okay but could have been much better. It didn't feel like Jimmy or Saul talking. 

[rue721]

On 6/9/2017 at 11:40 AM, Clanstarling said:

Oh, and also on the fact I had an uncle who was a con man who talked sweeter than Jimmy on his best day.

 

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

They have written so many great, creative scams and other methods characters have used to get what they want or out of tight spots.  This one was clichéd.  

For all my issues with that sequence, to me, it wasn't a big deal that it wasn't a great scam (or even a scam at all, just a threat). Jimmy has never been some amazing conman IMO.

He's a very good talker and very smart, and has great *potential* -- but as a scam artist, he is the very definition of two-bit. He sells off his childhood coin collection by convincing people to buy a penny or a half-dollar for at best a few hundred dollars a pop. On a good night, he'll make beer money or chat up a waitress or get some schmuck to pay for his tequila. He's dreaming about selling *his own* "worthless" credit cards for a profit. He really messed up his back doing a pratfall to make rent. IMO it's all embarrassing more than anything else. This isn't some criminal living the high life.

To be honest, Jimmy is pretty awful as a criminal. He's barely scraping by, and he doesn't even seem to be enjoying himself. And I don't mean just "scraping by" only financially, I mean he's really sacrificing a lot (his health, his personal things like the coins) just to make it through the day or the month.

I can definitely see where Kim is coming from with her offer to help financially. I would offer to help, too. I'd be like, Jimmy, keep your coin collection. You can have your actual coins, not just the old empty Band-Aid box, FFS. Jimmy, you want some drinks and Chinese take-out? That's fine, I will buy it, you don't have to go around trying to hustle a million small business owners and cut seven million commercials all for some razor-thin profit that leaves you exhausted and stressed and even then still without enough money to leave a decent tip. Jimmy, you need to make rent? Don't sacrifice your health just to pay the bills! I will cover it. Jimmy, don't live in a nail salon furnace room like a cockroach, you can sleep in an actual bed at my place. Like, I feel bad for him.

To be fair, I am also the person in real life who has gotten angry with friends when they've fallen on hard times and slept in their car or whatever. No, hit me up first, and if I can help I will help. Gahhhh. Very frustrating. I really don't like seeing people go without.

But it is also not lost on me that that is exactly how Mr McGill was, and that Jimmy blames the loss of his business (and maybe, by extension, his life) on it. And so Jimmy is probably categorically *not* OK with being helped in that way. When he thinks of Kim helping him the way that Mr McGill helped whatever hard luck story came into his store, Jimmy probably pictures her giving and giving (to him) and losing her business and all the rest because of it. But still. Who can watch someone do that to themselves and just sit by?

This isn't how somebody should live, selling off childhood momentoes and literally breaking their back for rent. If that were my boyfriend or even just my friend, I would be worried and sad for him, in pretty much the same way that Jimmy was worried and sad for Chuck when Chuck was sitting there in his ridiculous space blankets and lighting the house with lanterns.

I assume that Kim *is* worried and sad for him. But it's hard to tell. Kim is a good person, but she's not especially soft-hearted, I don't think.

I wonder what Jimmy's pointed "you believe me, don't you?" when she left him noodling on his guitar in the office was actually about.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

He's a very good talker and very smart, and has great *potential* -- but as a scam artist, he is the very definition of two-bit. He sells off his childhood coin collection by convincing people to buy a penny or a half-dollar for at best a few hundred dollars a pop. On a good night, he'll make beer money or chat up a waitress or get some schmuck to pay for his tequila. He's dreaming about selling *his own* "worthless" credit cards for a profit. He really messed up his back doing a pratfall to make rent. IMO it's all embarrassing more than anything else. This isn't some criminal living the high life.

I agree, he is fairly good at manipulating people but he's not operating at a real high level as far as raking in the money. 

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

I can definitely see where Kim is coming from with her offer to help financially. I would offer to help, too. I'd be like, Jimmy, keep your coin collection. You can have your actual coins, not just the old empty Band-Aid box, FFS. Jimmy, you want some drinks and Chinese take-out? That's fine, I will buy it, you don't have to go around trying to hustle a million small business owners and cut seven million commercials all for some razor-thin profit that leaves you exhausted and stressed and even then still without enough money to leave a decent tip. Jimmy, you need to make rent? Don't sacrifice your health just to pay the bills! I will cover it. Jimmy, don't live in a nail salon furnace room like a cockroach, you can sleep in an actual bed at my place. Like, I feel bad for him.

It seems like maybe he is sleeping there somewhat regularly so there's that much help he is accepting.  He's only a few days into his suspension it seems, and maybe he's just not ready to accept more help without seeing what else he can come up with.  I think a lot of men I know would be very reluctant to admit defeat right away.  I don't even know what kinds of conventional jobs he can get once a prospective employer looks at his background.  I think Kim does have a pretty soft spot for him, even though they aren't openly affectionate. 

[ByTor]

On 6/7/2017 at 2:06 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

I sometimes get into the bad habit of multitasking (on the smartphone) while watching shows.  You can't do that with BCS or you will miss a lot.  

Tell me about it.  I was just writing a comment that the community service foreman guy never told drug dealer guy that he can't leave to go to the hospital & drug dealer guy didn't say anything about expecting to get his hours, but after looking up the transcript: "Please, can I go? Sure, you can go. But you're not gettin' credit. C'mon, can I just go and come right back? I have to get my hours done this week."  OOPSIE! :)

[ByTor]

On 6/7/2017 at 7:11 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

Yes, Gus, who runs a mainly cash business would add Mike's cash to the receipts of LPH as if they were food and beverage sales and then pay Mike by check as an employee or consultant, producing a W-2 or 1099 so Mike could declare the income on his tax returns.  

Hence the "Corporate Security" position, where he, as Hank said, guards the special sauce :)

On 6/8/2017 at 9:59 AM, Juliegirlj said:

Hate to nitpick but, an ER doc not only treating Chuck, but making house calls?! I don't think so....

Haha...any doctor making house calls, actually :) Speaking of the doctor, I assumed she was an ER doctor, but do we know that for sure?  Could she have been a psychiatrist called to the ER to do a psych consult?

[SnarkyTart]

On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 7:40 AM, smorbie said:

If it was a bluff, it worked.  That's all there is to say.

If only that were true it would make me so happy. :-p

Edited June 12, 2017 by SnarkyTart
grammar matters, yo

[rue721]

Oh, I'm a dolt! I finally realized why Jimmy asked for $700 specifically -- because that's the amount he would make per case doing the public defender overflow.

Oh, Jimmy. That's just so sad. He wants to be a lawyer so badly, he'll play one out underneath the overpass. Jeez.

[MaryPatShelby]

 "I do wonder how Nacho came to be connected to the drug world, considering his dad is such a nice, honest guy."

I also wonder this. I find Nacho's love for his father, and respect for his work, very moving, and I think how disappointed his father would be to find out that his son is a killer.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Gould confirmed in the Talking Saul after the finale that the drug dealer paid Jimmy in order to go make drug deals.  There was some banter as to the price he paid Jimmy ($700).  

Spoiler

This transaction was significant to Gould as he said it was what led Jimmy to decide to do Irene dirty (the Sandpiper settlement).