Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[LadyChaos]

13 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It was recently announced AMC is planning 10 more years of The Walking Dead, which is already heading into its ninth season. I have no doubt GRRM would have been down with that for GOT.

From the article:

GRRM almost makes it sound like he was pressuring them along with HBO to draw things out. Man, am I glad D&D stuck to their guns. I always worried that D&D would cave to HBO, and whatever my issues with their writing, I am very grateful that they didn't.

To be completely fair to GRRM,he acknowledged later in the same interview that you can't keep actors around indefinitely because they want to move on to new projects and don't want to be tethered to one role forever, so maybe hoping for 11, 12, or 13 seasons was just wishful thinking on his part.

You also have to remember that GRRM is the author of the books, as a writer myself, I can tell you a book is like your baby.  He dreamed all this up, he created it, brought it to like.  He wants to see that it is done justice and is given its due.  So naturally he would prefer that the show goes on longer if it does better justice to the books. 

Now, having said that, I am glad that he also realizes that to do so, would be unfair to the cast and crew.  Type casting is a real thing, and not just that but I'm sure these actors are probably chomping at the bit to play other roles.  Also, there is the factor of viewers, after a while shows just lose viewership because people get board with it.  I generally loose interest in shows once they go past 6 or 7 seasons.  There are very few shows that have kept my interest for longer.  

[Eyes High]

45 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

You also have to remember that GRRM is the author of the books, as a writer myself, I can tell you a book is like your baby.  He dreamed all this up, he created it, brought it to like.  He wants to see that it is done justice and is given its due.  So naturally he would prefer that the show goes on longer if it does better justice to the books. 

Sure, but GRRM, as he likes to point out, is hardly innocent of the realities of television production, so he should know that for primetime dramas, the only way to keep a show going for 10+ seasons is to rotate out all the cast members. ER lost all its original main cast by Season 12 and most of them long before that, Law and Order lost all its original main cast by Season 10 and most of them long before that, and the only remaining original cast member for The Walking Dead announced his planned departure from the show not long ago. No one will stick around for that long, and eventually throwing money at actors to make it worth their while loses its effectiveness. 

I also suspect that the main reason he was pushing for 10+ seasons was to ease the pressure on him to finish the books. The books are indeed his baby, but it seems likely he was pushing for more seasons because it was in his own interests, not because it was what was best for the show.

The Walking Dead went GRRM's preferred adaptation route--adapting the story fairly faithfully (albeit less so in recent seasons) at a snail's pace--and is now hemorrhaging viewers. If D&D had agreed with GRRM and HBO, the same thing could have happened with GOT.

Quote

I think breaking the wheel is just a fancy way of saying she’s going to stop its rotation—with Targaryens on top.

It's all very vague. She said that "Targaryen" was one of the spokes on the wheel, and Tyrion said (uncontradicted by Dany) that Aegon the Conqueror built the wheel. So shouldn't smashing the wheel theoretically mean eliminating the possibility of Targaryen rule?

One of the reasons it seems unlikely to me that Dany is ever going to be queen is that D&D have invested so much in this "breaking the wheel" plan of Dany's without ever spelling out what it is. After all, it hardly matters what her plans are if she never gets the chance to implement them.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

As far as how long the show could have run for, theoretically, I think there’s a fundamental conflict between the political storylines (most of which could indeed have lasted longer) and the White Walker stuff (which was introduced in the first chapter/scene, but has moved at a snail’s pace since, at least until the last season or so).  You couldn’t devote several more seasons to the politics without killing the magical plot’s momentum stone dead.

[nikma]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

As far as how long the show could have run for, theoretically, I think there’s a fundamental conflict between the political storylines (most of which could indeed have lasted longer) and the White Walker stuff (which was introduced in the first chapter/scene, but has moved at a snail’s pace since, at least until the last season or so).  You couldn’t devote several more seasons to the politics without killing the magical plot’s momentum stone dead.

And Dany as well. People were making jokes about those two storylines.

[SimoneS]

While I think that D&D was wise to wrap up after seven seasons, I would have liked last season to have a couple more episodes to solidify the relationships of the characters who were meeting for the first time like Dany and Jon, Davos and Tyrion (they are both Hands to difficult monarchs, it would have been fun to hear them complaining to each other) as well the characters that reunited like Arya, Sansa, and Bran and Gendry and Davos.

Edited September 18, 2018 by SimoneS

[GrailKing]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

f D&D knew about Tyrion's betrayal, they shouldn't have made his character so likable or nice. They could have at least dropped hints about the possible betrayal. Ugh, then again maybe that was what his conversation with Varys about Dany burning people was as was his look when he saw Jon go into Dany's room. My fingers are still crossed that the leak about Tyrion isn't true.

See I think they are dropping hints, but they are too cryptic or subtle.

His trial , Shae, his dad; those got him hating, he then learns of the baby which is Jaime's ( he doesn't care about Cersei, but she is carrying Jaime's child.

I myself keep going back to : those gifts for Cersei, how did Euron know where his niece and nephew be exactly? and with a family that killed Mycella and the two people that Euron himself want to kill.

I'm not totally sure if Tyrion figured out QOT, but the look between the two picking up the cup was a bit weird. 

[WindyNights]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Good, Martin confirms yet again that D&D is the ending show as he planned for the characters 20 years ago. D&D has said that they have planned out the ending seasons ago so that the characters will be in place to have their book fates, at least the ones that Martin knew. I know a lot of the book readers won't be happy, but at least now they will know how the final book which may never be written ends. 

If D&D knew about Tyrion's betrayal, they shouldn't have made his character so likable or nice. They could have at least dropped hints about the possible betrayal. Ugh, then again maybe that was what his conversation with Varys about Dany burning people was as was his look when he saw Jon go into Dany's room. My fingers are still crossed that the leak about Tyrion isn't true.

He says "based on" which doesn't really mean much. 

 

Have you ever ever seen those movies that say they're "based on a true story" but widely different from what actually happened?

[domina89]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

It's all very vague. She said that "Targaryen" was one of the spokes on the wheel, and Tyrion said (uncontradicted by Dany) that Aegon the Conqueror built the wheel. So shouldn't smashing the wheel theoretically mean eliminating the possibility of Targaryen rule?

One of the reasons it seems unlikely to me that Dany is ever going to be queen is that D&D have invested so much in this "breaking the wheel" plan of Dany's without ever spelling out what it is. After all, it hardly matters what her plans are if she never gets the chance to implement them.

I still believe Dany's vision in the HOTU (show version) was a huge hint to her fate.  She never touches the throne (although she has the opportunity) but instead seeks out and finds her "husband and child." In the North.  At the Wall.  I think Jon and Dany will survive, create a council to rule Westeros, and book it out of there with their kid in tow never to be seen again.

[Eyes High]

39 minutes ago, domina89 said:

I still believe Dany's vision in the HOTU (show version) was a huge hint to her fate.  She never touches the throne (although she has the opportunity) but instead seeks out and finds her "husband and child." In the North.  At the Wall.  I think Jon and Dany will survive, create a council to rule Westeros, and book it out of there with their kid in tow never to be seen again.

Jon and Dany surviving but choosing not to rule and abandoning Westeros doesn't make a lot of sense to me given their sense of duty towards their followers, their concern for the people of Westeros, and their affection for their families or the people they see as family. On the other hand, Jon turned his back on the NW in Season 6, albeit under extraordinary circumstances, so I guess theoretically he is capable of doing something similar.

[nikma]

8 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Jon and Dany surviving but choosing not to rule and abandoning Westeros doesn't make a lot of sense to me given their sense of duty towards their followers,

I agree, this feels like a forced twist some people want to make at the end to avoid "Disney ending" criticism. 

[tangerine95]

Leaving everything behind would be my ideal ending for Jon and Dany but yeah I have a hard time seeing it happen.It would have to be a situation where they feel they they're not needed at all and I can't imagine a Westeros post war against the NK and Cersei would be a place that won't need them.

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

While I think that D&D was wise to wrap up after seven seasons, I would have liked last season to have a couple more episodes to solidify the relationships of the characters who were meeting for the first time like Dany and Jon, Davos and Tyrion (they are both Hands to difficult monarchs, it would have been run to hear complaining to each other) as well the characters that reunited like Arya, Sansa, and Bran and Gendry and Davos.

That's why I hope that 8x01 and 8x02, at least, are going to be heavy on character interactions.

[domina89]

I guess I see J/D leaving as a possibility that's plausible because Jon has never wanted to be a leader, much less rule anything. Every leadership position he's had has essentially been forced upon him by others. Dany, I think, only wants to rule because she thinks it's her Targaryen destiny - a destiny she has to fulfill because her brother couldn't. They both want to help people, but if they manage to end the war over the throne and defeat the white walkers, won't that goal be accomplished?  I think the discovery that Jon is actually a Targaryen is going to have a profound effect on both of them. Jon has never felt like he truly belonged with the Starks, and Dany never bonded with Viserys, the only family she's known. For them to find each other and realize that they're each other's family now- I could see them leaving it all behind and starting fresh, especially after the upcoming trauma they are sure to experience. If the council they choose has people they trust, I believe they might finally give up their hero roles and choose a quiet place to spend the rest of their lives. Just my opinion, of course!

[Happy Harpy]

They said (NCW?) that there would be many "callbacks" to previous seasons, and I think I found another potential one.

In 5x04, when Jon doesn't want to sign a letter asking Bolton to send men because "he killed my brother", Sam gives him a speech about how the AOTD coming trumps everything. It would fit Sam himself in S8 to a T, re: Dickon Crisp. I'd bet that's how they're going to settle the issue -at first, and then he'll know Dany for who she is.

[SimoneS]

I can't imagine Jon just up and leaving his younger siblings who he was just reunited with. 

[Katsullivan]

On 16/09/2018 at 9:55 PM, shireenbamfatheon said:

His discomfort with her burning the Tarlys wasn't out of character and stemmed from his conviction that there were other alternatives.

???????

The same Tyrion that commissioned wildfyre to unleash against Baratheon forces? That Tyrion? I know the show white-washed book!Tyrion but this is the first I'm realising that even show!Tyrion gets the whitewashing treatment.

[LadyChaos]

2 hours ago, domina89 said:

I still believe Dany's vision in the HOTU (show version) was a huge hint to her fate.  She never touches the throne (although she has the opportunity) but instead seeks out and finds her "husband and child." In the North.  At the Wall.  I think Jon and Dany will survive, create a council to rule Westeros, and book it out of there with their kid in tow never to be seen again.

 

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Jon and Dany surviving but choosing not to rule and abandoning Westeros doesn't make a lot of sense to me given their sense of duty towards their followers, their concern for the people of Westeros, and their affection for their families or the people they see as family. On the other hand, Jon turned his back on the NW in Season 6, albeit under extraordinary circumstances, so I guess theoretically he is capable of doing something similar.

 

1 hour ago, nikma said:

I agree, this feels like a forced twist some people want to make at the end to avoid "Disney ending" criticism. 

Actually, if you think about it.... Dany might very well be capable of doing just this.  Dany chose to build her army and conquer Westros after she was told she wouldn't be able to bare more children.  She may have been sold to Drogo, but she grew to love him and wanted to be his Queen and have their child.  She wanted that.  If she is presented with the opportunity to marry Jon, have his children, and leave to build a better life for their child , she might just take it.  

[Katsullivan]

On 17/09/2018 at 12:14 AM, GraceK said:

I say this as a Dany fan::

I really wish sometimes she would just embrace her role as conquerer and stop trying to soften her image with platitudes about “breaking the wheel”. Seriously . Girl, you had three dragons, Dothraki, and armies. Invade this shit, kill the fuck out of Cersei, hook up with that sexy Jon Snow , save the world from ice zombies and call it a day!!!

It infuriates me . This is medieval warfare, not a garden party. One thing I admire about Cersei even though I hate her guts is her ruthless, single minded determination to win and not let anything stop her. 

Dany DOES have good intentions and a good heart. That’s the major difference. She does have a desire to make the world better. But realistically she has to to WIN first before she can fix things and help people and if she has to  burn things down for the greater good then so be it. I know it’s an unpopular opinion.

That's D & D's misogyny and a bit of racism, not anything intrinsic to Dany's character. They didn't mind Dany-the-Dragon-Queen when she was ruling over a land that they populated with brown/black people. If anything, they scrapped all Dany's efforts at political growth in Mereen for Badass-Dany-on-Dragon-Burns-Her-Way-Through-Mereen. But when she needed to turn all that Rage and Fire on a white patriarchy, suddenly they included hand-wringing and tut-tutting to the extent that Tyrion Wildfyre Lannister gets to school Dany on the Ethics and Morality of Burning Enemies. 

[Eyes High]

29 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I can't imagine Jon just up and leaving his younger siblings who he was just reunited with. 

Depends on what he and Dany want for their child. In the grand hierarchy of things, kids will always trump siblings.

A video of this interview was just posted on /Freefolk, post-Emmys with Emilia, Jacob, and Nathalie:

Jacob: I didn't realize I cared about you all so much. On my last day I was all *imitating sobbing* "I love you all and I'm gonna miss you forever!"

Emilia: No, Conleth kept saying it when Nat wrapped. We had to do some other pickups [Nathalie here makes an "Uh oh!" face and covers her mouth] and Conleth was with us, and he was, like, trying to tell me and Jacob jokes, 'cause we were just like "No, I can't, I don't know what to do! I don't know what to do, now that Nat's not here!"

Nathalie was filming until early June.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

Another thing D&D mentioned when they explained the importance of planning the show's end was the age of the actors. They noted that Maisie was 14 when she started the show and she was now a young woman, she was aging out of the book character, indicating that this would take away story's credibility. This was also an issue on The Walking Dead as Chandler Riggs became an adult and comic Carl stayed a teenager.

[domina89]

21 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I can't imagine Jon just up and leaving his younger siblings who he was just reunited with. 

You are assuming they will all survive.  Even if they all do, Arya is like Nymeria... meant to roam free. Maybe go west of Westeros?  Jon and Sansa have never been close and Bran lives in his head now.  I don't see that being a factor if Westerosi politics is under responsible control and Jon and Dany want to raise their child in peace.  As @Eyes High said, kids always trump siblings.

[nikma]

2 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

???????

The same Tyrion that commissioned wildfyre to unleash against Baratheon forces? That Tyrion? I know the show white-washed book!Tyrion but this is the first I'm realising that even show!Tyrion gets the whitewashing treatment.

Yes, that Tyrion, becausd context matters. It is one thing to destroy aggressor who is attacking your city and other to kill already defeated enemy. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by nikma

[Colorful Mess]

1 hour ago, domina89 said:

Jon has never felt like he truly belonged with the Starks

He DOES belong with them. Ned calls him a Stark for christ sake.

He felt like he didn't belong because of a woman named Catelyn.

Are you saying that the conclusion of Jon's arc is: "Cat wuz right. Jon needs to leave."

[domina89]

14 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

He DOES belong with them. Ned calls him a Stark for christ sake.

He felt like he didn't belong because of a woman named Catelyn.

Are you saying that the conclusion of Jon's arc is: "Cat wuz right. Jon needs to leave."

I'm simply saying that even though Jon was raised with the Starks, he wasn't truly made to feel like he was one of them, similar to Theon.  Ned might call him a Stark, but actions speak louder.  Ned was limited in what he could do to counteract the separation Jon felt because he had to be careful not to give Jon's true parentage away.  Jon was never allowed to forget he was the bastard.  Jon refers to these moments himself throughout the series.  I think when he discovers he's actually a Targaryen, he will finally understand who he is and where he belongs.  He is part legitimate Stark and I think that will be important to him for closure sake, but I don't think that's enough to necessarily keep him with the Starks or in Westeros. 

[Stella]

27 minutes ago, domina89 said:

I think when he discovers he's actually a Targaryen, he will finally understand who he is and where he belongs. 

Jon will probably be sickened beyond measure that his biological parents' acts led directly to the cruel and inhumane deaths of his Stark Grandfather and uncle. (Not to mention Robert's Rebellion.) Jon will learn that his biological dad ran off with his teenager mom, while abandoning his real wife and Jon's half-siblings. He will not be 'leaning into' his Targ ancestry like it is some precious gift. The birth information is a huge deal in the story and it's going to rip Jon to the core. I seriously doubt he is going to be embracing Targ philosophy, goals and lifestyle. In everything but name he is a Stark and I think this will be fully clear by the end of the season.

[cambridgeguy]

2 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

The same Tyrion that commissioned wildfyre to unleash against Baratheon forces? That Tyrion? I know the show white-washed book!Tyrion but this is the first I'm realising that even show!Tyrion gets the whitewashing treatment.

There's a difference between killing enemy soldiers and executing prisoners of war.  Even if you're going to kill them burning them to a crisp isn't going to dispel the notion that you're exactly the same as your lunatic father.   Just like there's a difference between using the stuff in a battle and using it to blow up a sept full of people you don't like.

[WindyNights]

51 minutes ago, domina89 said:

I'm simply saying that even though Jon was raised with the Starks, he wasn't truly made to feel like he was one of them, similar to Theon.  Ned might call him a Stark, but actions speak louder.  Ned was limited in what he could do to counteract the separation Jon felt because he had to be careful not to give Jon's true parentage away.  Jon was never allowed to forget he was the bastard.  Jon refers to these moments himself throughout the series.  I think when he discovers he's actually a Targaryen, he will finally understand who he is and where he belongs.  He is part legitimate Stark and I think that will be important to him for closure sake, but I don't think that's enough to necessarily keep him with the Starks or in Westeros. 

Jon isn't really a Targaryen or belong to that side either. He's in the middle. 

I mean he looks like a Stark, talks like a Stark, was raised in the North, was raised by a Stark and worships Stark gods. He's more Stark than Targaryen unless you think Jon's haplogroup determines whether he's a Stark or Targaryen.

[Wouter]

As I'm on the fence regarding the recent leaks, I'm trying to construct a cons and pros list for Friki's videos being true:

Arguments pro (with possible rebuttals):

-Friki is not an anonymous handle on freefolk who seems to take pleasure toying with others, he openly shows himself and if he is lying, he would make a very good used car salesman because he is very convincing. He has gotten true leaks in past seasons. Rebuttal: he has never leaked stuff this much in advance before, so his source may be different this time and could be a HBO plant.

-Tyrion eventually turning on the Starks may have similarities with the orginal outline written by GRRM to pitch his future series to potential publishers. Rebuttal: that was an early outline and the books and show so far differ quite a bit (see arcs of Jaime, Cersei, Arya, Sansa,...). Friki also didn't imply that Tyrion would act out of jealousy against Jon re:Dany, which weakens the link with the original outline even if the leak would be true.

-In the books, Tyrion is a dark, brooding character after his trial and conviction in KL. He shows destructive qualities, both to himself (drinking, suicidal behaviour) and to others. Quaithe warns Dany not to trust him (among others including the relatively harmless Quentyn, though). GRRM also once called Tyrion a villain. Rebuttal: Tyrion seems to be coming into his own again at the end of ADWD and there is every chance that he will join Dany's forces and rise to a position of relative power again, as happened on the show. The Tyrion of the first three books could arguably be called a villain simply because he was fighting for Joffrey when it came down to it, but this may not have impact on his end game.

-In the books, Dany had a prophecy warning her for three threasons. The last (and presumably most impactful) of all would be "for love". This could be a betrayal related to a possible Dany/Jon/Tyrion love triangle (there are mild hints in S7 that Tyrion is jealous of Jon), but a IMO more likely explanation is that the subject of the "love" would be family, like Jaime and/or Jaime's children. Tyrion has been a longstanding candidate for this betrayal, just based on the books. Rebuttal: he is not the only candidate (Barristan has also been mentioned as a possibility, in conjunction with Ashara Dayne), depending on circumstances the betrayal could fit many people. The prophecy was also not mentioned on the show.

-some fortuitous events for Cersei, Jaime and Euron in S7 (in particular Euron finding Yara's fleet) could be due to Tyrion giving info, rather than luck or other circumstances. After all, Tyrion had a bone to pick with the Sand Snakes/Ellaria (killed Myrcella) and possibly with Olenna (framed him for murder, at least in the books). Rebuttal: this would mean Tyrion decided to betray Dany already during S6 or in between S6 and S7. Euron could have other means at his disposal (in the books he has sorcerors he could use to gain an advantage), in addition to a big fleet loyal to him. And taking Casterly Rock actually should have been a big deal (remember what it meant for the Starks to lose Winterfell to Theon?), while the fall of Highgarden was due to lesser lords turning on the Tyrells.

-If Tyrion hadn't been playing both sides before, he may have been overcome by guilt re: Myrcella and Tommen when facing Cersei in the S7 finale. Rebuttal: but would that make him betray Dany unless she was directly threatening the child and he couldn't convince her to back off?

-In the comic book adaptation of AGOT, the author was told by GRRM to include a particular (seemingly throw-away) line because it would be important "in the last scene of ASOIAF". This author also knows the endgame of Tyrion. This suggests the line may be "I never bet against my family". Rebuttal: he may know the ending of several characters, and this may or may not be related to that particular line. Other lines have been suggested as candidates, like "for one moment, Tyrion Lannister stood as tall as a king" or "they would find her with the needle still in her frozen hands" (paraphrasing). Also, while Tyrion may not bet against his family he does occasionally put a crossbow bolt through them or poisons them. It wouldn't be very convincing evidence.

 

Arguments contra (with possible rebuttals):

-Joe Dempsie has claimed to have wrapped filming in what must have been Seville, while Friki is adamant that he did not film a single frame there. It's odd that HBO would go so far as to have the actor lie about such a minor thing, so Friki may be wrong. Rebuttal: his source may have gotten a detail wrong, or HBO is indeed that devious. Since Friki knew that Dempsie had been seen in Seville, he didn't need to claim he did not film if he was making things up.

-In the show, Tyrion never said that famous line "I never bet against my family". That would make Bran's supposed callback to it suspicious, indicating a false leak. Rebuttal: D&D may be capable of pretending this book line was said (offscreen?), much like they did with Mirri's statement about Dany's fertility.

-Jaime seems to be defecting to the Starks/Dany, Cersei may lose her child early in S8 and Tyrion is an intelligent guy who should understand that the Westerosi (and Dothraki/unsullied/Golden Company) need to work together to defeat an existential threat. It would seem that rationally and even emotionally (with Jaime joining them), Tyrion would be out of his mind to betray his side in favour of Cersei. Rebuttal: he may not know about Cersei's child dying early (if that indeed happens). We also don't know what will happen during S8, maybe Jaime won't be welcomed (allthough that seems unlikely given his link with Brienne).

-It's curious that Friki's source has very detailed info on the Seville scenes, but seemingly no idea why Dany nor Jon are present or what their condition at that time is. This may point to false info. Rebuttal: they could be dead, but that would make for a bitter ending.

-Show Tyrion has been made a considerably "whiter" character than his book counterpart, especially after he fled KL. It makes a line like "they deserve it" (in relation to the KL inhabitants) seem very out-of-character, also makes a betrayal less likely. Rebuttal: D&D could have done this on purpose to shock the audience all the more. Friki also may not be certain that the "they deserve it" is about KL, if it is merely his speculation the line could refer to the Sand Snakes, for example.

-In the books (including the "world book"), there have been (IMO) hints that Tyrion may be a bastard of Aerys, and/or may get his own dragon (probably Viserion, in that case). The show also at times placed emphasis on the right scenes (like Tywin telling him he's not his son, Tyrion releasing the dragons), allthough Tyrion never came close to having his own dragon on the show. What the show did hint in the last season was that the relationship between Tyrion and Sansa (which always was way better in the show, compared to the books) may play a role again. This could point to a Tyrion/Sansa endgame, in case Jon and Dany both don't make it, which would be incompatible with Friki's leak.  In addition to facing off with the NK/Viserion, Jon has the resurrection thing possibly going against him (is he supposed to live normally after the Great War is over?) and Dany has a melancholic air about her, ever since Drogo died and also related to the Targaryens's old glory. Rebuttal: the Tyrion as a Targ bastard theory was/is very unpopular on book forums and it may be that I misread potential clues or that they are deliberate red herrings. The odd relationship between Tyrion and Sansa may play a role without leading to anything except some extra emotion when the supposed betrayal is discovered.

 

 

 

As an aside, I'm not surprised Sweetrobin may make it. I think this may well happen in the books as well (an potentially his survival would be due to Sansa turning on LF), allthough Sansa marrying him eventually doesn't seem terribly likely. Especially not if Tyrion only dies at the very end of the books.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Wouter

[glowbug]

It wasn't only Catelyn that made Jon feel like he didn't completely belong. Even had she been warm and loving he was still a bastard and their highly hierarchical society was never going to allow him to forget it. On top of that, there are a few instances in the books where Jon is unable to make the same choices as Ned would and it's heavily implied that it's because Ned isn't his father. He has Targaryen blood in him and that influences his thoughts and behaviors to some extent in the books. In the show he's a carbon copy of Ned so things will probably play out differently.

He is definitely part Stark, but Stark doesn't equal Ned. Ned is actually the odd one out in his family. Brandon and Lyanna are both described as more hotheaded and feisty than Ned. That's not to say they had nothing in common but both Brandon and Lyanna were raised in Winterfell while Ned was fostered in the Vale and picked up a lot from Jon Arryn. It would make sense for Jon Snow, just based on his mother's traits, to be different from Ned and when you add in the Targaryen lineage that should make the differences even more stark (no pun intended). Ned has definitely influenced Jon because he raised him and they are still related, but it's both nature and nurture that determines who a person is, and that's playing out in the books. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by glowbug

[screamin]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Jon and Dany surviving but choosing not to rule and abandoning Westeros doesn't make a lot of sense to me given their sense of duty towards their followers, their concern for the people of Westeros, and their affection for their families or the people they see as family. On the other hand, Jon turned his back on the NW in Season 6, albeit under extraordinary circumstances, so I guess theoretically he is capable of doing something similar.

Depends on just how much they feel they can do for Westeros what no one else can do. When the war ends, it's been heavily hinted at that dragons will become extinct. And Dany will almost certainly suffer heavy casualties of her Dothraki as well, as they don't seem well suited to survive a bad winter. Without those, what advantages would she have over any other pretender? Westeros is likely to be heavily depopulated after war and winter, thus even less suited to a continent-spanning kingdom than it was already. All of the seven kingdoms will only be up to licking their wounds over the next several decades, and not be wanting to give precious resources to a central government. Jon and/or Dany might realize after the war that they face being a weak central government trying to impose a rule with a weakened army over other weak territories who won't be inclined to see the benefit of allotting any resources to a central government for the next few decades. It would seem quite plausible to me that they'd give up and let the kingdom fall apart into its old components like the Roman empire did.

Edited September 18, 2018 by screamin

[domina89]

51 minutes ago, Stella said:

Jon will probably be sickened beyond measure that his biological parents' acts led directly to the cruel and inhumane deaths of his Stark Grandfather and uncle. (Not to mention Robert's Rebellion.) Jon will learn that his biological dad ran off with his teenager mom, while abandoning his real wife and Jon's half-siblings. He will not be 'leaning into' his Targ ancestry like it is some precious gift. The birth information is a huge deal in the story and it's going to rip Jon to the core. I seriously doubt he is going to be embracing Targ philosophy, goals and lifestyle. In everything but name he is a Stark and I think this will be fully clear by the end of the season.

We only have six episodes left, so there isn't the luxury of time for Jon to explore all his angst over the shameful Targ history.  Jon is practical.  He will take the advice he gave Theon, accept both sides of his parentage, and move on to whatever needs doing.  He won't forget his Stark upbringing, but I disagree that he won't embrace the Targ side, too.  I think Dany will have a large influence on him.  Acceptance is a powerful feeling for someone who has always struggled to belong.

[bubble sparkly]

I think it would probably be pretty difficult for Westeros to rebuild if the kingdoms try to go their separate ways.  For example, going by s7 the North doesn't have too much grain left, whereas the Reach still seems to be doing okay food wise.  Obviously it depends on what happens in s8, but it seems like things will go from bad to worse in the North.  Assuming the Reach still has a decent amount of food left after the war, a centralised government would presumably work to distribute the foods amongst all the kingdoms to avoid people up North and in other places starving to death.  If the kingdoms stay separate the Reach would have no incentive to send food North (or anywhere else), unless the other kingdoms are prepared to pay top dollar for precious food supples.  However, one assumes that after the war the Northerners are not going to have stockpiles of cash and thus would be unable to afford to buy much food from the Reach.

Although, I guess they could set up sort of council so the kingdoms are separate somehow work together to try and better Westeros etc.  Jon and Dany have been through so much shit (as have pretty much all the main characters), that I wouldn't begrudge them if they wanted to run off and live a quiet life with baby Targ.  But I agree with others that peacing out and leaving others to clean up the mess seems to go against their mutual desire to help people and their deep sense of duty.

[LadyChaos]

How do we know that the War is Rhegar and Lyianna's fault?  Yes, what they did was reprehensible.  However, did Ned, Robert, and Ned's brother and father know they ran away or think Rhegar kidnapped her.  We know what Westros was told but Robert was betrothed to Lyianna and loved her.  I think he would have been the type to lie to start the war because he felt jilted by Lyianna running away from him to be with another man.  If Robert started the war because Lyanna ran away from him to be with Rhegar, and lied about it to start a war. Then the War is on him, not Lyanna and Rhegar.

[bubble sparkly]

The Rebellion didn't even really start because of the alleged Lyanna kidnapping, it started because Aerys called for the heads of Robert and Ned, which resulted in Jon Arryn calling his banners.  Although I guess you could argue that the alleged Lyanna kidnapping resulted in Ned's father and brother stupidly riding to KL and demanding the crown prince's head, which led to Aerys killing them in one of his mad rages.

But yes, who exactly told the Starks that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and how did they know this?  Did Lyanna leave a note saying she was running off with Rhaegar and someone disposed of it?  The show will likely not answer these questions, and GRRM is never going to finish the books so it will forever remain a mystery.

15 minutes ago, domina89 said:

We only have six episodes left, so there isn't the luxury of time for Jon to explore all his angst over the shameful Targ history.  Jon is practical.  He will take the advice he gave Theon, accept both sides of his parentage, and move on to whatever needs doing.  He won't forget his Stark upbringing, but I disagree that he won't embrace the Targ side, too.  I think Dany will have a large influence on him.  Acceptance is a powerful feeling for someone who has always struggled to belong.

Yeah, the conversation between Theon and Jon in s7 was some pretty major foreshadowing of Jon's ultimate response to the parentage bomb.  I expect he will brood for no more than one episode, then Winterfell will be attacked so he will be forced into action mode and it will be bygones.  If Jon does ride a dragon by the end of the season, then thematically he probably needs to accept his Targ side before this can happen. 

[OhOkayWhat]

3 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

That's D & D's misogyny and a bit of racism, not anything intrinsic to Dany's character. They didn't mind Dany-the-Dragon-Queen when she was ruling over a land that they populated with brown/black people.

Misogyny and a bit of racism?. Tyrion asked Dany don't burn cities in Westeros AND Essos. Both places.

 

3 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

But when she needed to turn all that Rage and Fire on a white patriarchy, suddenly they included hand-wringing and tut-tutting to the extent that Tyrion Wildfyre Lannister gets to school Dany on the Ethics and Morality of Burning Enemies. 

White patriarchy? Tyrion warned Dany about her idea of using dragons to take KL, a city that, as far he knows, still has LOTS of wildfire beneath it and it's full of people.

 

3 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

The same Tyrion that commissioned wildfyre to unleash against Baratheon forces? That Tyrion? I know the show white-washed book!Tyrion but this is the first I'm realising that even show!Tyrion gets the whitewashing treatment.

It's not "the same" Tyrion. That was Season 2 Tyrion. Characters evolve. That's character developtment. A different thing is that we don't like where the narrative goes.

 

And a show!character cannot, logically speaking, whitewash whatever a book!character did.

Whitewash: a deliberate concealment of someone's mistakes or faults in order to clear their name.

Therefore it's logically impossible to whitewash a Tyrion with the other Tyrion, because anything Tyrion did in the books cannot be concealed even if we create 100 different shows. They are simply different fictional beings.

Edited September 18, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[anamika]

Emilia is definitely not happy about how the final season ends haha! Especially her final scene.

[SimoneS]

14 minutes ago, anamika said:

Emilia is definitely not happy about how the final season ends haha! Especially her final scene.

Yep, she definitely isn't thrilled. Because Dany died? Or because Dany did something horrible? I read an interview with the three of them that hinted at something. I will see if I can find it again.

[GraceK]

42 minutes ago, anamika said:

Emilia is definitely not happy about how the final season ends haha! Especially her final scene.

Maybe Dany kills Tyrion . That would definitely be interesting and upsetting for her to do.   If these Tyrion execution and betrayal rumors are to be believed.

Edited September 19, 2018 by GraceK

[SimoneS]

13 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Maybe Dany kills Tyrion . That would definitely be interesting and upsetting for her to do.   If these Tyrion execution and betrayal rumors are to be believed.

Yeah, this is my thought also. I have been desperate not to believe it, but I could see Emilia not being happy if Dany executes Tyrion.  She would probably shrug off Dany dying.

[OhOkayWhat]

57 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Yep, she definitely isn't thrilled. Because Dany died? Or because Dany did something horrible? I read an interview with the three of them that hinted at something. I will see if I can find it again.

I don't see Emilia happy or unhappy. I see Emilia kinda afraid to reveal something, anything, with her face.

Edited September 19, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[anamika]

8 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

But when she needed to turn all that Rage and Fire on a white patriarchy, suddenly they included hand-wringing and tut-tutting to the extent that Tyrion Wildfyre Lannister gets to school Dany on the Ethics and Morality of Burning Enemies. 

It's hard to figure out what they are trying to say because the writing on this show is so bad. From Cogman's interview it seems like the idea is that Tyrion does not want Dany to use her dragons in Westeros because that would invite comparisons to the Mad King and play into Cersei's hands. Cogman mentions how Cersei is using the Mad King and people's xenophobia against the foreign whore and her 'Dothraki Savages' as propaganda against Dany. And therefore Cogman wanted to name the episode where Dany gets to Westeros as  The Mad King's daughter to highlight this. But the problem is that on the show Tyrion himself never tells this to Dany whenever he advises her. Instead he and Varys basically act like she is the mad queen for using her dragons.

Maybe the point is that the Westorosi folk can never get rid of their paranoia about her - Tyrion and Varys are after all from Westeros. Like mentioned previously, the people of Essos - Missandei/Grey Worm - admire Dany and call her Mhysa/Mother of Dragons etc. as form of affection and admiration.

It's the same with Jon in the books. The Blackfish has no interaction with Jon and yet immediately thinks of him as untrustworthy and treacherous because he's a bastard. The books explore how people are prejudged because of their birth and circumstances - Jon/ bastard, Arya/ugly and non-lady like, Tyrion/ugly and deformed, Bran/Crippled, Dany/Mad King's daughter etc. and whether they can rise above these qualifications. 

If the Tyrion leak is true, then maybe they do fail to rise above it. Maybe Tyrion and Jon do dishonorable shit and die. Maybe Dany becomes the Mad Queen. Maybe Arya ends up going lone wolf because she just can't fit in Westeros. Maybe Bran is deemed unfit to be leader of the North because he is a cripple and goes off to be the 3ER.

Though, I do agree that there is an element of racism in how the Dothraki are written in the show/books and viewed by the wider fandom as opposed to the Iron Islanders and the Wildlings. They are all three groups who engage in raping and pillaging. But for some reason only the Dothraki are viewed as savages who need to die out. I mean Cersei has aligned with Euron who rapes, loots and cuts out the tongues of prisoners. Tormund is a fan favorite and it's fuck Olly, forgetting that Tormund's group killed Olly's family. It would have been nice to have a Dothraki character like Tormund in Dany's group.

Edited September 19, 2018 by anamika

[Colorful Mess]

5 hours ago, domina89 said:

We only have six episodes left, so there isn't the luxury of time for Jon to explore all his angst over the shameful Targ history.  Jon is practical.  He will take the advice he gave Theon, accept both sides of his parentage, and move on to whatever needs doing.  He won't forget his Stark upbringing, but I disagree that he won't embrace the Targ side, too.  I think Dany will have a large influence on him.  Acceptance is a powerful feeling for someone who has always struggled to belong.

Jon doesn't need DANY'S acceptance though. How does Dany's acceptance actually help him with his Stark acceptance? He wants to be a Stark. Not a Targaryen.

You'd have to strip Jon of all connections and relationships and personal desires to make it seem like Dany has something to offer to him on a personal basis.

He dreams of Winterfell...somehow Dany solves that puzzle for him?

What I'm hearing (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Dany will have a baby, and a hubby, and cousins and sisters and brothers in law who can visit them on the farm (their simple peasant life?), and Dany will continue to have a line of jealous rejected suitors (hangers on from Daario and Jorah), and Ghost will adore her and Sam as well and she will also instruct Jon on how to have more ambition and how to Be A Dragon and how to be A FIERCE FIRE QUEEN. But wait, no, that's all in the past, because Dany has decided that she will abandon the legacy of House Targaryen, while at the same time teaching Jon how to be a Targaryen. Which is now about living in the woods somewhere, making hats out of pine straw and subsistence farming. The story will have no internal conflict whatsoever because the only reason GRRM wrote this thing is for Jon and Dany to win against zombie dragons and then run away together. He was never writing about choices people make, the heart in conflict--it's just a story about two outcasts meeting across the pond and starting a simple life as aunt an nephew. Jon will accept being a Targaryen and all that entails because it's easier for everyone if he just does it quickly and gets it over with. Jon will accept the Targaryen name and the Targaryen lifestyle (marriage to a Targaryen relative) while also being pleased to find he's still a Stark because narratively, he has always wanted more family members. Jon will use this newfound knowledge to align perfectly with what Dany wants. This will happen because the story has never teased happy moments between couples--it always delivers on them. It's never torn a relationship to shreds right before our eyes. So yeah, the parentage reveal is only there just for Jon's name to change. Not the plot trajectory. Nope.

[Colorful Mess]

It might not make sense at the hands of D&D but they know the ending and I think they are writing Daenerys as as succumbing to power and using it irresponsibly. You can see it in script lines like,

• "My tyranny has only just begun" (S6),
• Dany having a "cult of personality," being "the new boss same as the old boss" (S7) 
• Varys/Tyrion expecting a certain amount of ruthlessness to win the throne but "hoping for Caesar-level, not Caligula-level" (S7)

Burning people alive in the contexts of a just war and for defense...that's one thing. But the show isn't portraying Dany's war as a just war. Tyrion and Varys think it is, but they're slowly realizing that they're orchestrating the removal of one tyrant and replacing her with another. Burning slavemasters who are attacking you - makes sense. Burning prisoners because they won't kneel - yikes! 

That's why Tyrion pressed for a less-Targaryen form of execution if they HAD to die. Execution by dragonfire served no purpose and only inflamed anti-Targaryen sentiment further.

That Dany doesn't understand this does raise issues about her fitness. The narrative won't allow Dany to be the most powerful person in the world and on the side of good in perpetuity - it goes against everything GRRM's has said about power as a corrupting force.

You can see it when GRRM talks about characters succumbing to the power of the ring. At this point it's not about Dany being a savior, its about whether she will die heroically or villainously after doing something horrible. Boromir, Saruman, Gollum, Denethor, or Galadriel with the One Ring are her LOTR archetypes at this stage. Perhaps Frodo too.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Colorful Mess

[WindyNights]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

It's hard to figure out what they are trying to say because the writing on this show is so bad. From Cogman's interview it seems like the idea is that Tyrion does not want Dany to use her dragons in Westeros because that would invite comparisons to the Mad King and play into Cersei's hands. Cogman mentions how Cersei is using the Mad King and people's xenophobia against the foreign whore and her 'Dothraki Savages' as propaganda against Dany. And therefore Cogman wanted to name the episode where Dany gets to Westeros as  The Mad King's daughter to highlight this. But the problem is that on the show Tyrion himself never tells this to Dany whenever he advises her. Instead he and Varys basically act like she is the mad queen for using her dragons.

Maybe the point is that the Westorosi folk can never get rid of their paranoia about her - Tyrion and Varys are after all from Westeros. Like mentioned previously, the people of Essos - Missandei/Grey Worm - admire Dany and call her Mhysa/Mother of Dragons etc. as form of affection and admiration.

It's the same with Jon in the books. The Blackfish has no interaction with Jon and yet immediately thinks of him as untrustworthy and treacherous because he's a bastard. The books explore how people are prejudged because of their birth and circumstances - Jon/ bastard, Arya/ugly and non-lady like, Tyrion/ugly and deformed, Bran/Crippled, Dany/Mad King's daughter etc. and whether they can rise above these qualifications. 

If the Tyrion leak is true, then maybe they do fail to rise above it. Maybe Tyrion and Jon do dishonorable shit and die. Maybe Dany becomes the Mad Queen. Maybe Arya ends up going lone wolf because she just can't fit in Westeros. Maybe Bran is deemed unfit to be leader of the North because he is a cripple and goes off to be the 3ER.

Though, I do agree that there is an element of racism in how the Dothraki are written in the show/books and viewed by the wider fandom as opposed to the Iron Islanders and the Wildlings. They are all three groups who engage in raping and pillaging. But for some reason only the Dothraki are viewed as savages who need to die out. I mean Cersei has aligned with Euron who rapes, loots and cuts out the tongues of prisoners. Tormund is a fan favorite and it's fuck Olly, forgetting that Tormund's group killed Olly's family. It would have been nice to have a Dothraki character like Tormund in Dany's group.

Where did Cogman say he wanted to name that episode "the Mad King's Daughter"?

[Happy Harpy]

8 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

I think it would probably be pretty difficult for Westeros to rebuild if the kingdoms try to go their separate ways. 

It actually depends how much there is left of the Seven Kingdom. If it's a realistic zombie apocalypse, there might be a couple of million people left (refugees + KL suvivors) in the end. Optimistic estimation.

8 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

But yes, who exactly told the Starks that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and how did they know this?  Did Lyanna leave a note saying she was running off with Rhaegar and someone disposed of it?  The show will likely not answer these questions, and GRRM is never going to finish the books so it will forever remain a mystery.

I always thought Littlefinger had something to do with it.

1 hour ago, Colorful Mess said:

 

• "My tyranny has only just begun" (S6),

6x09? "My reign has just begun."

[nikma]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

Emilia is definitely not happy about how the final season ends haha! Especially her final scene.

 

Because she kills Tyrion.

[Katsullivan]

2 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

Burning people alive in the contexts of a just war and for defense...that's one thing. But the show isn't portraying Dany's war as a just war.

And this is the obvious misogyny of the show that certain of the audience have bought into. Because the Lannisters's War - to basically hold onto the power that they had murdered Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon for - was not just. Tyrion had the option to surrender King's Landing before it was attacked, and chose instead to send innocent soldiers into battle to defend his criminal family. 

And of course the show does not portray it that way. We don't see an Ed Shireen-type Lannister soldier sitting at his camp fire, and thinking about how he'd rather not be fighting Lannister battles until the show needed that character to sully Dany's rep.

And of course, that's not even going into how if you think death by fire is a brutal way to die, it doesn't matter the circumstances in which it's employed. 

10 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Tyrion asked Dany don't burn cities in Westeros AND Essos. Both places.

You need to watch the show again. Last I checked, Tyrion went to Essos to join forces with the dragon queen, defied her by unchaining her chained dragons, and smirked at the Essos leaders prior to Dany's Ass-Kicking-By-Dragon-Fire move. Even in the scene you're probably referring to where he was suggesting caution, he wasn't asking her not to unleash her dragons and Dothraki on the people who were literally about to bomb his ass. He was asking her to leave some people alive.

 

As for the rest, see above. Just goes to show that the show's misogyny/racism is so pervasive that most people can't even see the retroactive history when it's happening. Lannisters fought a just war indeed. 

Ergo, when Tyrion gets rightfully executed for treason it would seem like tyranny in Dany's place. Even though Jon killed a man for less and it was shown as bad-assery. Even though Stannis (and it's part of misogyny that in the Lannister-Baratheon conflict, the two sides of the war can be portrayed with nuance, but Dany is depicted as completely in the wrong and an invader while Lannisters are suddenly, weirdly white-washed) --- was a fan favorite. 

[nikma]

Tumblr is leaking...

[OhOkayWhat]

1 hour ago, Katsullivan said:

You need to watch the show again. Last I checked, Tyrion went to Essos to join forces with the dragon queen,

He went to Essos running away from Westeros. Without any other plan. 

 

1 hour ago, Katsullivan said:

Even in the scene you're probably referring to where he was suggesting caution, he wasn't asking her not to unleash her dragons and Dothraki on the people who were literally about to bomb his ass. He was asking her to leave some people alive

 

As I said, Tyrion asked Dany don't burn cities in Westeros and Essos. He is warning her don't go the "Mad Queen" way.

 

In Essos

DAENERYS: I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt. That is my plan.

TYRION tightens his jaw and looks away.

DAENERYS: You don’t approve?

TYRION: You once told me you knew what your father was. Did you know his plans for King’s Landing when the Lannister armies were at his gates?

An explosion occurs outside.

TYRION: Probably not. Well, he told my brother and Jaime told me. He had caches of wildfire hidden under the Red Keep, the Guildhalls, the Sept of Baelor, all the major thoroughfares. He would have burned every one of his citizens. The loyal ones and the traitors. Every man, woman, and child. That’s why Jaime killed him.

DAENERYS: This is entirely different.

TYRION: You’re talking about destroying cities. It’s not entirely different. I’d like to suggest an alternate approach.
 

In Westeros

YARA: If you want the Iron Throne, take it. We have an army, a fleet, and three dragons. We should hit King's Landing now. Hard. With everything we have. The city will fall within a day.

TYRION: If we turn the dragons loose, tens of thousands will die in the firestorms.
 

Both places: Westeros AND Essos.

 

1 hour ago, Katsullivan said:

As for the rest, see above.

Nothing of the above answer my points:

-Tyrion's character development.

-The logical impossibility of whitewashing in this case.

Edited September 19, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[anamika]

2 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

As for the rest, see above. Just goes to show that the show's misogyny/racism is so pervasive that most people can't even see the retroactive history when it's happening. Lannisters fought a just war indeed.

lol! It's like when people are expecting Dany to die miserably because NCW loves the ending - meaning that Jaime will get to live happily with his true love Brienne while mad tyrant Dany is killed off.  NCW is not some tumblr/reddit Dany hater.

And it's even more hilarious to see Stark fans hate on Dany and venerate Jaime. The Jaime who tried to murder Bran and Arya, crippled Bran for life, killed Jory, killed lots of Robb's men in battle, threatened to catapult Edmure's baby to reinforce Frey rule in the Riverlands.

Jaime has caused untold misery for the Starks and it was beautiful to see Dany unleash her dragon on him. The Lannisters have been getting one victory after the other, they killed Starks, imprisoned Edmure, murdered the Tyrells, defeated Stannis, murdered the Martells. It's only Dany that has been able to crush them in battle and I love her for it.

2 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Ergo, when Tyrion gets rightfully executed for treason it would seem like tyranny in Dany's place.

I fear this will be the case because D&D/Cogman have their favorites and they frame/write in such a way so as to not have their fave get any criticism. Take the Sansa-Arya feud. In the books, Arya and Sansa have deep issues to work out because Sansa's betrayal led to Ned's death and Arya going on the run. But Sansa's whitewashing on the show means Arya can only accuse Sansa of writing that letter - which was last seen with Robb. But apparently the Maester made a copy - but then Arya says the letter contains Sansa's pretty handwriting.  Arya walks around threatening Sansa and their arguments are framed as crazy Arya being unfairly mean to poor Sansa who only wants what's best for the North because Jon is an idiot who does not listen to Sansa's superior advice. In a plot that was supposed to explore Sansa's conflict between family and power, it was Arya who came out looking like the bad guy.

Tyrion is already liberally whitewashed on the show. Even if they write a Tyrion betrayal arc, I think D&D will try to justify it so much it will look like Dany is unfairly judging/executing him. Look at his arc last season - Tyrion, the voice of morality!! Plus, he's a wildly popular character among book readers and show viewers. Considering the hate Dany gets for just roasting some random Tarlys, imagine how big the response is going to be when she roasts Tyrion? This will be like the 'fuck Olly' meme but ten times bigger.  If Dany executing Tyrion using dragonfire is indeed Dany's last scene, I can perfectly understand Emilia's reaction.

Edited September 19, 2018 by anamika