Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[screamin]

10 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

I meant that she could retreat to Meereen to fight another day but sacrifice Westeros in the process

Seems to me if you lose a whole continent to an undead king who creates eternal night, thus adding the entire population of the continent to his army, getting away clean to another continent over a freezing sea is a dubious proposition in itself. Getting away to another continent that is ALSO gripped in eternal winter - hence ALSO inevitably dying - and somehow expecting to regroup there and 'fight another day' with any hope of winning? Pipe dream.

[WindyNights]

6 minutes ago, screamin said:

Seems to me if you lose a whole continent to an undead king who creates eternal night, thus adding the entire population of the continent to his army, getting away clean to another continent over a freezing sea is a dubious proposition in itself. Getting away to another continent that is ALSO gripped in eternal winter - hence ALSO inevitably dying - and somehow expecting to regroup there and 'fight another day' with any hope of winning? Pipe dream.

She can fly and well, I'm not sure if the long seasons affect the world or just Westeros.

Regardless, Essos is much more populated and stronger than Westeros.

[screamin]

34 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

She can fly and well, I'm not sure if the long seasons affect the world or just Westeros.

 

I'm pretty sure that the books never said that the years-long winters and summers were confined to Westeros alone. You'd think someone would have mentioned that bizarre anomaly over the course of a few thousand pages.

[Eyes High]

Just saw that /danielakretchen on /Freefolk said that her source in Spain said that Sophie was sobbing on the last day of filming in Seville. That poster has legit info when they post it, and it lines up with Sophie’s emotional tweet, so it makes sense.

Here again is the list of characters whose actors filmed all four days in Seville: Bran, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion, Brienne, Robin, Davos, and Sam.

Maisie spent all week in Belfast again while Sophie spent the week in London. Other than Seville, Maisie seems to be filming three times as much as Sophie, even since the end of the night shoots. I think at this point it’s safe to say that Arya’s going to have a lot more to do than Sansa in S8.

All the filming information to date suggests that Sansa is going to have a pretty peripheral role in S8...which makes sense, given her uselessness in battle and what’s shaping up to be a battle-heavy season with two very big battles. Between the Winterfell battle (8x03?) and the KL battle (8x05-8x06), that’s half the season right there. However, I do think we can rule any Queen Sansa endgames out, even if I’m right about the Seville day shoots being denouement. It seems Sansa just isn’t part of the action, except maybe as a prisoner.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

I expect Arya will have not only a lot of action but a lot of varied locations to film in, which would translate to a lot of filming time.

[Callista]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Just saw that /danielakretchen on /Freefolk said that her source in Spain said that Sophie was sobbing on the last day of filming in Seville. That poster has legit info when they post it, and it lines up with Sophie’s emotional tweet, so it makes sense.

Here again is the list of characters whose actors filmed all four days in Seville: Bran, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion, Brienne, Robin, Davos, and Sam.

Maisie spent all week in Belfast again while Sophie spent the week in London. Other than Seville, Maisie seems to be filming three times as much as Sophie, even since the end of the night shoots. I think at this point it’s safe to say that Arya’s going to have a lot more to do than Sansa in S8.

All the filming information to date suggests that Sansa is going to have a pretty peripheral role in S8...which makes sense, given her uselessness in battle and what’s shaping up to be a battle-heavy season with two very big battles. Between the Winterfell battle (8x03?) and the KL battle (8x05-8x06), that’s half the season right there. However, I do think we can rule any Queen Sansa endgames out, even if I’m right about the Seville day shoots being denouement. It seems Sansa just isn’t part of the action, except maybe as a prisoner.

 

*If* Natalie Dormer is to be believed in this interview, then yes, we can rule out: (1) Queen Sansa (unless as a consort perhaps?) and (2) the Iron Throne being dismantled/replaced with a democratic leadership/similar theories:  https://www.bustle.com/p/natalie-dormer-knows-how-game-of-thrones-season-8-ends-well-at-least-part-of-it-9195992

Edited May 26, 2018 by Callista

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, Callista said:

*If* Natalie Dormer is to be believed in this interview, then yes, we can rule out: (1) Queen Sansa (unless as a consort perhaps?) and (2) the Iron Throne being dismantled/replaced with a democratic leadership/similar theories:  https://www.bustle.com/p/natalie-dormer-knows-how-game-of-thrones-season-8-ends-well-at-least-part-of-it-9195992

 

GRRM already said he knows who is sitting the Iron Throne too aka "No one will be".

 

Be aware when someone says they know who sits the Iron Throne versus I know who rules in the end.

Not to say that there won't be a monarchy but I think it's been pretty well established that the Iron Throne is going to blow up once the wildfire under KL goes off.

Introducing dragonflame to a city rigged to blow up with Wildfire means everything goes boom.

Especially since ACOK says wildfire is so unstable that even sunlight could set it off.

Edited May 26, 2018 by WindyNights

[tangerine95]

I'm starting to kinda worry about Sansa and she used to be on my survives for sure list.I hope the tweet and the crying aren't about the content of the scene and just Sophie being emotional it's all ending.I don't mind if Sansa has a smaller role next season,I think it fits and she already kinda finished her big story in the past two seasons.

I'm so glad Arya seems like she will have a big role and Maisie filmed a lot with Kit.Because Arya is a main character and the WF storyline basically made her a antagonistic supporting character for a big part of the season.I hope season 8 makes up for that and we see a more human side of Arya.

[GrailKing]

5 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I think it fits and she already kinda finished her big story in the past two seasons.

I think Sansa has one more line to finish in that story, I hope she and Arya team up and remove Cersei, If it's Arya alone, then Sansa could be fooked, either mentally or worst.

[Eyes High]

11 hours ago, SeanC said:

I expect Arya will have not only a lot of action but a lot of varied locations to film in, which would translate to a lot of filming time.

...Except that Maisie was filming at about the same clip in the fall, so it's not as if she's making up for lost time. Arya's screen time in S8 will outstrip, maybe even vastly outstrip, Sansa's. I'm not sure whether Sansa spends S8 locked in a closet or something, but it seems she's not doing much of anything important. Not surprising given all the battles in S8, but there you have it. 

42 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I'm starting to kinda worry about Sansa and she used to be on my survives for sure list.I hope the tweet and the crying aren't about the content of the scene and just Sophie being emotional it's all ending.I don't mind if Sansa has a smaller role next season,I think it fits and she already kinda finished her big story in the past two seasons.

Yeah, killing LF was pretty much the culmination of her arc in the show (and it will be in the books as well, I assume). There's really not much left for her after that, although I have to admit that a last confrontation with Cersei wouldn't come out of nowhere. I hope said confrontation wouldn't take the form of Sansa getting kidnapped again, but who knows?

Maybe Sansa's S8 arc will involve a last-ditch effort by D&D to give her a love interest. They're pretty much out of time, with two, maybe three episodes of six taken up by big battles, but I'd like to think that D&D wouldn't put Sansa through the Book Jeyne storyline unless they intended to ultimately throw her some kind of bone in the romance department (...so to speak), especially if Sansa really does die.

35 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I think Sansa has one more line to finish in that story, I hope she and Arya team up and remove Cersei, If it's Arya alone, then Sansa could be fooked, either mentally or worst.

It seems as if there are multiple Jon/Davos/Arya scenes in KL. No sign of Sansa, granted, but no sign of Dany, either. 

Missandei and Sansa may be sharing a few scenes--Nathalie and Sophie filmed the same week in January along with Hannah Murray (Gilly), and Nathalie and Sophie filmed the same week when Sophie was in Belfast a while back--so maybe Sansa winds up hanging out with the non-combatant ladies while everyone else is off fighting. (I'd joke about one of them being her new love interest, since Sansa hasn't had much luck with men, but Missandei and Gilly's boyfriends both seem to make it to the last or next-to-last episodes.) I guess it depends on whether they can find a safe location (...maybe Dragonstone?). 

On another note, someone pointed out on /Freefolk that if Dany is pregnant in S8, she may eat the horse heart again. I would love to see a scene where Dany is enthusiastically chowing down on a horse heart in front of a mob of wildly approving Dothraki while all the other characters make WTF faces.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Eyes High

[tangerine95]

28 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I think Sansa has one more line to finish in that story, I hope she and Arya team up and remove Cersei, If it's Arya alone, then Sansa could be fooked, either mentally or worst.

Oh yeah true,she could be involved in whatever happens to Cersei.But Cersei is basically a villain for everyone so I feel like a lot of people will be involved in her downfall and it won't be just an Arya or Arya and Sansa team up storyline.

[GraceK]

14 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

On another note, someone pointed out on /Freefolk that if Dany is pregnant in S8, she may eat the horse heart again. I would love to see a scene where Dany is enthusiastically chowing down on a horse heart in front of a mob of wildly approving Dothraki while all the other characters make WTF faces.

That would be hilarious . Can you just imagine Royce’s face? ??

[Eyes High]

42 minutes ago, GraceK said:

That would be hilarious . Can you just imagine Royce’s face? ??

Yes, and now I'll be sad if this doesn't happen.

NCW, Liam and Kit were spotted in Monaco. (In town for the Grand Prix, I guess...?)

Someone on /Freefolk posted an interview with NCW where it says that he'll be flying to Colombia for the Bogota Comic Con (June 8th-11th). The article claims that NCW will be traveling on June 8th. I think it says that that's the same date that he finishes filming on the eighth (well, they say ninth, but I think they mean eighth) season. Nathalie Emmanuel is going to the same event.

I'm guessing Kit will want to have finished filming by his wedding so he can get his hair cut and shave his beard.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

...Except that Maisie was filming at about the same clip in the fall, so it's not as if she's making up for lost time.

I wasn't arguing otherwise.

[OhOkayWhat]

On 16/5/2018 at 1:53 PM, WindyNights said:

Queen Sansa and King Gendry?

Sansa was supposed to be married to a Baratheon and have his baby in the outlin

Why not just King Gendry? Anyway, there are not many chances for a Baratheon King in the endgame, in my opinion.

[OhOkayWhat]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Arya's screen time in S8 will outstrip, maybe even vastly outstrip, Sansa's.

Or not. We don't know how much more time took them to film an action scene than a "dialogue" scene. Maybe twice?.Thrice? Four times? More?.

Edited May 26, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[Advance35]

Oh wow, it's cool to hear Natalie Dormer still keeps tabs on the show.  And I remember her saying that now that Margaery is done, she's was hoping Sansa would come out of the saga in a position of power and how she was really looking forward to seeing how Sansa's story unfolds.  I miss Margaery and her scenes with Sansa.   I always had the impression that ST's favorite cast of characters was the King's Landing set.

As someone who suffers the Sci-Fi nonsense for the rare character/human moments, I would be perfectly fine with Sansa having dialogue heavy scenes with Cersei this season.  They were the best part of the BlackWater episode in Season 2.  I'd be interested in how they interact after all of the changes both have gone through.

[WindyNights]

This is a pretty good series of posts from freefolk's Alopolis:

 

Dany asked “when will he be as he was”. She’s asking about the future therefore what Mirri tells her is a prophecy. 

Also. MMD NEVER says she will never have a child. She only says that she will have a child after certain conditions are met. It’s Danys (and the audiences) interpretation of MMDs words that cause them to believe that she can’t have children. However Mirri never said that.

-------

MMD has never lied to Dany, she just told her the truth in a way that misleads her.

When she offers to save Drogo's life for Rhaego's, she does indeed do that. He is technically alive. The problem is that Dany expected Drogo to be saved for real, but instead Mirri left him a vegetable. The prophecy is essentially the same. Dany assumes that Mirri is saying that Dany will never have a child. But that's actually not what Mirri is saying. As we see in the show, Dany actually will have a child. Dany reads the prophecy wrong, just like most characters read most prophecies wrong. It's not that Dany will never bear a living child, it's just that Dany having a living child will be preceded by several events, and will be followed by Drogo's return (ie her death) 

The problem with MMD lieing and being wrong, is that it achieves nothing. This is a story, and in this story, Dany thinks about MMD's words constantly. 

Having the entire pay off be some big joke because MMD was wrong is pointless

----

I'm trusting the narrative here. Put yourself in GRRMs position. If MMDs words were ultimately pointless and had no purpose, then there's no need to have Dany constantly repeat the words and reflect on them. He would not have given MMD a backstory which gives us reason to believe she's both intelligent and reliable. 

If the whole point of MMDs words was for us to find out MMD was wrong and Dany can have children, then GRRM would have written it that way. MMD would have said 'Your womb is cursed and you can't have a child' only for in season 8 when she does have a child, we're surprised. Then, GRRM would have had Dany reflect on those words, not the part about Drogo's return. GRRM would not have given us a cryptic statement/phrophecy, he would have given us a straight forward statement. 

But that's not how it was written. It's written in a way that makes Dany and the readers believe she will never have a living child. Only for us to find out that she is pregnant and will have a child which will mean that 'oh shit' 

That's the dramatic pay off that GRRM is setting up. The reveal is not that Dany is capable of having a living child, it's what comes after that. 

Now it could be that Dany dies and is reunited with Drogo, or it could be that we should take MMDs words more literally and we can assume that Dany will never have a living child as Drogo will never be as he was.

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Arya's screen time in S8 will outstrip, maybe even vastly outstrip, Sansa's. I'm not sure whether Sansa spends S8 locked in a closet or something, but it seems she's not doing much of anything important.

Does it matter? Per GRRM; "ALL" the Stark kids are important; Sansa had the bulk last two years because it was her time, S8 is Arya's time.

I  think the common people would think Sansa as important, if she's keeping them safe, trying her best to feed them, even watching Jon's back; not everyone can be warriors, and even the warriors need aid and supplies.

So Sansa being in the background would be understandable, to say she's not doing anything important; I think is off.

[Happy Harpy]

5 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

I'm starting to kinda worry about Sansa and she used to be on my survives for sure list.I hope the tweet and the crying aren't about the content of the scene and just Sophie being emotional it's all ending.I don't mind if Sansa has a smaller role next season,I think it fits and she already kinda finished her big story in the past two seasons.

I'm so glad Arya seems like she will have a big role and Maisie filmed a lot with Kit.Because Arya is a main character and the WF storyline basically made her a antagonistic supporting character for a big part of the season.I hope season 8 makes up for that and we see a more human side of Arya.

Antagonistic? Not if you didn't drink the Kool-Aid. It was 100% with Arya since testing Sansa's loyalty to Jon was 100% necessary in my eyes, especially with LF whispering in her ear. Choosing her interest over her blood family was Sansa's original sin, after all.

I don't care for wishful thinking or pushing theories for one's agenda, it won't change the final outcome. And I'm very wary of public shows of emotion, I see PR everywhere, LOL. But if it wasn't certain that Sophie T. filmed KL scenes and not WF scenes like other actors in Spain, I'd be wondering indeed about Sansa's survival. Again, I don't see her dying if it isn't in WF.

[tangerine95]

10 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Antagonistic? Not if you didn't drink the Kool-Aid. It was 100% with Arya since testing Sansa's loyalty to Jon was 100% necessary in my eyes, especially with LF whispering in her ear. Choosing her interest over her blood family was Sansa's original sin, after all.

I don't care for wishful thinking or pushing theories for one's agenda, it won't change the final outcome. And I'm very wary of public shows of emotion, I see PR everywhere, LOL. But if it wasn't certain that Sophie T. filmed KL scenes and not WF scenes like other actors in Spain, I'd be wondering indeed about Sansa's survival. Again, I don't see her dying if it isn't in WF.

Yeah I was on Arya's side too but it felt like she was playing Sansa's antagonist and then her executioner.I just didn't think that whole storyline was for Arya's benefit,it was about Sansa and ending her story with LF.Her story basically stopped once she got to WF imo and I was so annoyed about that because Arya back home should have been done so much better and actually been about her and showed more of her POV.

Good point,if a Stark was gonna die then it would happen in WF during that big battle.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

Antagonistic? Not if you didn't drink the Kool-Aid. It was 100% with Arya since testing Sansa's loyalty to Jon was 100% necessary in my eyes, especially with LF whispering in her ear. Choosing her interest over her blood family was Sansa's original sin, after all.

I don't care for wishful thinking or pushing theories for one's agenda, it won't change the final outcome. And I'm very wary of public shows of emotion, I see PR everywhere, LOL. But if it wasn't certain that Sophie T. filmed KL scenes and not WF scenes like other actors in Spain, I'd be wondering indeed about Sansa's survival. Again, I don't see her dying if it isn't in WF.

Only time we can possibly say Arya was testing Sansa was in Arya's bed room, before that LF was playing both; with Arya being played by LF, Sansa thought he use Brienne so she was sent away, LF used the letter from S1 as a wedge. Arya's feelings of trust about Sansa was real, they could have did more earlier on it, but, we know; SHOCK!

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Or not. We don't know how much more time took them to film an action scene than a "dialogue" scene. Maybe twice?.Thrice? Four times? More?.

 

Except that Maisie’s been shooting scenes in Belfast over the past several weeks which are unlikely to be battle scenes.

It’s kind of funny how resistant some are to the idea that Arya will be much more prominent in S8 than Sansa, even when all the evidence points to it.

4 hours ago, Advance35 said:

As someone who suffers the Sci-Fi nonsense for the rare character/human moments, I would be perfectly fine with Sansa having dialogue heavy scenes with Cersei this season.  They were the best part of the BlackWater episode in Season 2.  I'd be interested in how they interact after all of the changes both have gone through.

Count me out. I could do without another round of Get Lena An Emmy, especially if it’s Cersei monologuing for what seems like hours to a captive audience. We did it in S6 with Unella and in S7 with Ellaria and Tyene, and it’s excruciatingly tedious, no matter how well-acted.

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Does it matter? Per GRRM; "ALL" the Stark kids are important; Sansa had the bulk last two years because it was her time, S8 is Arya's time.

I  think the common people would think Sansa as important, if she's keeping them safe, trying her best to feed them, even watching Jon's back; not everyone can be warriors, and even the warriors need aid and supplies.

So Sansa being in the background would be understandable, to say she's not doing anything important; I think is off.

We already know she’s not going to be doing anything important. She has no dragons, no weapons, no magic, and no specialized knowledge. She’s utterly useless when it comes to the AOTD.

ETA: Joe Dempsie did an interview this weekend saying he finished filming “last week” and said that the last scene he shot was the last scene for some of the other actors as well. I’m guessing this is the last full day of filming in Seville, the same day Sophie was so emotional over?

...Maybe that day was Sophie’s last day as well. Didn’t explain why she was in Belfast late last week, unless she just wanted to hang out with Maisie.

So Kit, Emilia, Lena, NCW, Liam, and Maisie at least are not done yet.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Eyes High

[OhOkayWhat]

20 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Except that Maisie’s been shooting scenes in Belfast over the past several weeks which are unlikely to be battle scenes.

Or maybe they are Faceless-Arya action scenes.

Edited May 26, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Count me out. I could do without another round of Get Lena An Emmy, especially if it’s Cersei monologuing for what seems like hours to a captive audience. We did it in S6 with Unella and in S7 with Ellaria and Tyene, and it’s excruciatingly tedious, no matter how well-acted.

 

Oh Gods yes. Don't get me wrong, Lena deserved an Emmy for S5 and S6 imo. I did enjoy the Cersei/Unella and Cersei/Tyene/Ellaria scenes. But I felt that's when Cersei's story came full circle,  she lived up her purpose for me and she's been getting on my nerves since. Yeah, there was also that Jaime finally left her scene but it should have happened in 7x01 because Tommen. I felt he was kept around only to give Cersei a significant character to interact with and found myself wishing he was sent to Old Town and be surgically removed from up her ass.  Moreover, now that dust settled, I'm so not a fan of the Tyrion/Cersei scene in S7 and I'm really not looking forward to more of the same indeed. I'm not a D&D hater but Cersei is clearly one of their favorite and I don't quite trust them to give her the fucking satisfying Walder Frey downfall of a villain she deserves imo, I fear they'll water it down.

Needless to say, the idea that Cersei will probably mostly be sharing her scenes with Enema Euron doesn't do anything for me.

I'm not sure that GoT will ever get other Emmys for acting, btw. It has become wayyyy too popular, ewww!

Edited May 26, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[Edith]

[Happy Harpy]

12 minutes ago, Edith said:

Gendry does guns. Confirmed! (j/k)

Back in S3, just before Melisandre took him, Gendry was talking about arrowheads with Anguy. Was it random? Team Good Guys don't have long-range weapons against the AoTD. If Gendry managed to forge arrowheads out of dragonglass (or rather, nail the process since they'd need an army of smiths to have a significant amount) it could be a big help.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[SeanC]

5 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Oh wow, it's cool to hear Natalie Dormer still keeps tabs on the show.  And I remember her saying that now that Margaery is done, she's was hoping Sansa would come out of the saga in a position of power and how she was really looking forward to seeing how Sansa's story unfolds.  I miss Margaery and her scenes with Sansa.   I always had the impression that ST's favorite cast of characters was the King's Landing set.

As someone who suffers the Sci-Fi nonsense for the rare character/human moments, I would be perfectly fine with Sansa having dialogue heavy scenes with Cersei this season.  They were the best part of the BlackWater episode in Season 2.  I'd be interested in how they interact after all of the changes both have gone through.

Related to what I earlier said about Cersei’s attitude to Sansa at this point, I struggle to think of anything particularly interesting the writers could do with them now.  The Sansa/Cersei scenes were all variations on Cersei taunting Sansa for being naive.  Sansa’s not supposed to be naive now (though I guess they could make her naive again, like they did in parts of Season 6), and the writers seem unlikely to give her the book character’s philosophical difference with Cersei about being loved versus being feared (especially as TV Sansa seems to favour fear too).  So it’d most likely be two people trying to out-cynic each other.

2 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

Yeah I was on Arya's side too but it felt like she was playing Sansa's antagonist and then her executioner.I just didn't think that whole storyline was for Arya's benefit,it was about Sansa and ending her story with LF.Her story basically stopped once she got to WF imo and I was so annoyed about that because Arya back home should have been done so much better and actually been about her and showed more of her POV.

Good point,if a Stark was gonna die then it would happen in WF during that big battle.

Reconciliation with Sansa is an important part of Arya’s story, so in that regard it very much was her story too.

In theory, anyway.  In practice the writers skipped over the meat of the two characters working out their issues, which should have been the centre of the storyline.  But once they decided to structure the whole thing around trying to trick the audience into thinking the sisters were about to kill each other, they were off on a completely wrong track.

[Eyes High]

23 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Oh Gods yes. Don't get me wrong, Lena deserved an Emmy for S5 and S6 imo. I did enjoy the Cersei/Unella and Cersei/Tyene/Ellaria scenes. But I felt that's when Cersei's story came full circle,  she lived up her purpose for me and she's been getting on my nerves since. Yeah, there was also that Jaime finally left her scene but it should have happened in 7x01 because Tommen. I felt he was kept around only to give Cersei a significant character to interact with and found myself wishing he was sent to Old Town and be surgically removed from up her ass.  Moreover, now that dust settled, I'm so not a fan of the Tyrion/Cersei scene in S7 and I'm really not looking forward to more of the same indeed. I'm not a D&D hater but Cersei is clearly one of their favorite and I don't quite trust them to give her the fucking satisfying Walder Frey downfall of a villain she deserves imo, I fear they'll water it down.

Needless to say, the idea that Cersei will probably mostly be sharing her scenes with Enema Euron doesn't do anything for me.

I'm not sure that GoT will ever get other Emmys for acting, btw. It has become wayyyy too popular, ewww!

Lena would have been a lock for the Emmy after S5 if she had done the walk of shame herself instead of using a double. That was her best chance, in my opinion. 

I don’t think the top tier of the cast has any award-worthy actors other than maybe Peter and Lena, let alone award-worthy performances. It’s not a coincidence that Kit and the rest tend to get their performances trashed by critics whenever they happen to do anything that isn’t GOT. Outside the GOT bubble of critic and audience good will the world is not kind, heh. 

Topic: I wonder who else of the Seville bunch finished filming along with Joe. John? Isaac? Gwendoline?

[Happy Harpy]

9 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Topic: I wonder who else of the Seville bunch finished filming along with Joe. John? Isaac? Gwendoline?

I don't know, but I feel more and more that the denouement was filmed in Belfast last fall/winter (sorry! not meaning to be contrary). In spite of all the cast members that showed up in Spain, with the WF battle leftovers and possibly some action in the Dragonpit, there's just something that's not quite adding up for me.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[SeanC]

44 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

I'm not sure that GoT will ever get other Emmys for acting, btw. It has become wayyyy too popular, ewww!

 

Popularity wasn’t the issue (otherwise the show wouldn’t win all the stuff it does).  The biggest factor in the actors’ lack of wins comes down to limited screentime, in my opinion.

Whatever you think of a given actor’s acting abilities, a lot of the things that have happened to characters would, in a less cramped show, have been the basis for way more scenes that would give the performer more to dig into.  For instance (and this isn’t even from a “prestige” show), when Alex Danvers got dumped by her girlfriend on Supergirl, way more time was dedicated to showing her emotional state afterward than this show spent on how Jon feels about coming back from the dead.

Edited May 26, 2018 by SeanC

[Happy Harpy]

33 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Popularity wasn’t the issue (otherwise the show wouldn’t win all the stuff it does).  The biggest factor in the actors’ lack of wins comes down to limited screentime, in my opinion.

 

It's a fair argument. I also think that several actors from GoT competing against each other played in the lack of awards. Yet, shunning the most popular movies/shows from acting categories  is a staple of awards of all kind (it's so hard to censor myself about the kind of people they prefer to award, argh) in the last two/three decades. For example, The Return of the King and Titanic are in a tie for the number of Oscar wins, with zero acting awards, yet both had very powerful character-centric moments, and character development -I say that as a Titanic hater and ROTK lover. #ViggoWuzRobbed Same with Strangers Things for TV.

I do hope for more character moments in S8, for me it will be a very important element in making this last season satisfying. To take examples among my favorite, I want Tyrion to learn that Arya  was Tywin's cupbearer, I want her to realize that Tywin saved Robert's son/Gendry etc. I know I won't get Gilly and Meera hunting together but damn, I'd sacrifice a full battle sequence for it if I could. The show is rich of seven seasons of entanglements, I want them exploited. I just don't think that any character development will be enough to get acting awards even then. I'd love to be proved wrong, of course!

Edited May 26, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[WindyNights]

Joe Dempsie also just said this:

 

"That's not all. He also said now his and Arya's ages would be more appropriate. Someone asked him what he would do if he was king. He said it would take Gendry a while to get to grips with it, but he would understand the smallfolk. That sounds like he's been thinking about it."

 

Gendry x Arya? King Gendry and Queen Arya hehe 

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

It's a fair argument. I also think that several actors from GoT competing against each other played in the lack of awards. Yet, shunning the most popular movies/shows from acting categories  is a staple of awards of all kind (it's so hard to censor myself about the kind of people they prefer to award, argh) in the last two/three decades. For example, The Return of the King and Titanic are in a tie for the number of Oscar wins, with zero acting awards, yet both had very powerful character-centric moments, and character development -I say that as a Titanic hater and ROTK lover. #ViggoWuzRobbed Same with Strangers Things for TV.

I do hope for more character moments in S8, for me it will be a very important element in making this last season satisfying. To take examples among my favorite, I want Tyrion to learn that Arya  was Tywin's cupbearer, I want her to realize that Tywin saved Robert's son/Gendry etc. I know I won't get Gilly and Meera hunting together but damn, I'd sacrifice a full battle sequence for it if I could. The show is rich of seven seasons of entanglements, I want them exploited. I just don't think that any character development will be enough to get acting awards even then. I'd love to be proved wrong, of course!

I love the little character-driven stuff, but this show has been pretty much reduced to pure plot for some time.

On the bright side, NCW promised lots of callbacks to earlier seasons in S8, and I love that kind of thing.

21 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Joe Dempsie also just said this:

 

"That's not all. He also said now his and Arya's ages would be more appropriate. Someone asked him what he would do if he was king. He said it would take Gendry a while to get to grips with it, but he would understand the smallfolk. That sounds like he's been thinking about it."

 

Gendry x Arya? King Gendry and Queen Arya hehe 

I dunno about king and queen, but Jon/Dany, Jaime/Brienne and Gendry/Arya fighting together would be amazing. Battle couples unite!

[Happy Harpy]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I dunno about king and queen, but Jon/Dany, Jaime/Brienne and Gendry/Arya fighting together would be amazing. Battle couples unite!

I want this so badly, sigh.

Siblings United with Jon/Arya, Tyrion/Jaime and Yara/Theon fighting side by side would be the icing on the cake. D&D could add a cherry on top with Ghost/Nymeria -do I dare to even hope for this one?

[OhOkayWhat]

I just want my two favorite characters (Arya and Sandor) becoming friends and teaming up again to save the world.

Edited May 27, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[GrailKing]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

We already know she’s not going to be doing anything important. She has no dragons, no weapons, no magic, and no specialized knowledge. She’s utterly useless when it comes to the AOTD.

1: how do you know this? Did you actually film a scene and not telling us?

2: people already know she has no fighting skills, but she does have skills useful in war, just behind the scene and when Jon and company arrive I'm sure the'll be on display.

3: Everyone is pretty much useless against the AOTD.

[OhOkayWhat]

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

She’s utterly useless when it comes to the AOTD.

If anything I suspect one of the main things Season 8 will show us is that everyone is useful when it comes to the WW invasion, even if they are useful in unexpected ways.

[Eyes High]

9 hours ago, GrailKing said:

1: how do you know this? Did you actually film a scene and not telling us?

One doesn't need to have filmed a scene to know that Sansa has no dragons, no weapons, no magic, and no (relevant) specialized knowledge. Sansa's only unique area of expertise is Littlefinger, and he's dead.

Quote

3: Everyone is pretty much useless against the AOTD.

Yes, the dragonrider, the omniscient warg who can track the AOTD's movements, and the Valyrian steel wielders are definitely just as useless as someone whose only specialized knowledge is insight into a dead man. Come on.

6 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

If anything I suspect one of the main things Season 8 will show us is that everyone is useful when it comes to the WW invasion, even if they are useful in unexpected ways.

I doubt it. What's Sansa going to die, whine the AOTD to death?

Edited May 27, 2018 by Eyes High

[Advance35]

Quote

If anything I suspect one of the main things Season 8 will show us is that everyone is useful when it comes to the WW invasion, even if they are useful in unexpected ways.

Time will tell.  Though I'm confident the non-combatants will have plenty to do and a suitable amount of scenes.  I feel like TPTB know that it's the politics and more human interactions and developments, that put this show on the map.  Look at previous seasons, how much time or forum space (here and elsewhere) is spent talking about Dragons, Faceless Men and Zombies?  I feel like those are not the selling points of the show and HBO knows it.   Those will be a backdrop but I doubt we'll have 6 episodes of non-stop Dungeons and Dragons.  

HBO is also VERY award conscious (even if it's chances are non-existent at this point), Kit and Emilia do not have the talent/charisma to rule the screen alone.   Lena and Peter will DEFINITELY have plenty to do.  The writers will also know doubt dilute with helpings of Melisandre, Varys, Euron, Sansa, Robin Arryn, Qyburn and Theon.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Advance35

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Advance35 said:

Time will tell.  Though I'm confident the non-combatants will have plenty to do and a suitable amount of scenes.  I feel like TPTB know that it's the politics and more human interactions and developments, that put this show on the map.  Look at previous seasons, how much time or forum space (here and elsewhere) is spent talking about Dragons, Faceless Men and Zombies?  I feel like those are not the selling points of the show and HBO knows it.   

 

D&D have  said that they feel the pressure to keep topping themselves in the set piece department, and it shows in terms of the battles getting bigger and bigger. D&D have also said that they know the audience is expecting bigger and bigger set pieces, and if the reactions in the Burlington Bar GOT videos are any indication, they're not wrong. I don't think the wider audience is tuning in for thoughtful, subtle character drama, and frankly if they truly wanted that, they'd be watching something else. They want spectacle. They want to have their minds blown. They want explosions. They want epic battles with mass destruction. They want badass swordfights. They want dragons setting shit on fire. And all indications are from filming information that they are going to get that in Season 8 in spades, and they're likely going to get that the expense of character-driven interactions.

Quote

HBO is also VERY award conscious (even if it's chances are non-existent at this point), Kit and Emilia do not have the talent/charisma to rule the screen alone.  Lena and Peter will DEFINITELY have plenty to do.

I dunno. I'm sure for Season 8 D&D have given Lena a monologue or two on how clever she is, a discount version of Lady Macbeth's mad scene, as well as a death scene where she staggers and flails for an uncomfortably long period of time like Alan Rickman in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, but I can't say I'm looking forward to any of it. 

While D&D are unlikely to resist the temptation to engage in a last-ditch effort to get Peter yet another Emmy, I wouldn't mind Tyrion taking a back seat in S8. Like Sansa, he doesn't have much to contribute to the fight against the AOTD (although unlike Sansa he is at least theoretically capable of fighting, and unlike Sansa he has some knowledge of military strategy and tactics), so it makes sense that he would recede into the background while the fighters and magic users take center stage.

Quote

The writers will also know doubt dilute with helpings of Melisandre, Varys, Euron, Sansa, Robin Arryn, Qyburn and Theon.

One of the most frustating things about GOT is that most of the best actors, who do a lot of the heavy lifting in making the inferior actors of the show raise their game, are not in the main cast. I'm so used to watching GOT scenes with Actor A and Actor B, where Actor A is doing 15 things in any given scene with their dialogue, and Actor B is doing 2. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

One doesn't need to have filmed a scene to know that Sansa has no dragons, no weapons, no magic, and no (relevant) specialized knowledge. Sansa's only unique area of expertise is Littlefinger, and he's dead.

Not according to what we've been given in show ( as rushed as it is ) and by GRRM own words.

If you think battles are won by warriors alone, you don't know how wars are fought and won or ;lost.

I don't think S2 E9 was insight between Cersei and Sansa for nothing.

IMHO

[connieinnc]

On 5/25/2018 at 3:53 AM, WearyTraveler said:

When it comes to this whole Nissa Nissa businesss, I think people are confusing prophecy with lore / history, which are not the same in the books.

There are many little stories that we learn about Westeros throughout the books, some seem to be more historically based than others.  For example, when we read about Baelor the Blessed going on a religious fast and how he was such a godly man that the snakes refused to bite him versus Nan telling Bran the story of the 'prentice boys and the guy with the ax coming in the dead of night.  The first is based on a true historical figure (and later we hear from Oberyn, IRRC, say that it wasn't entirely true), the second is framed as a tale told to children like we have the Grimm brothers.

That said, there's a strong sense throughout the books that some of the lore we read a bout is more historically accurate than the people of Westeros believe (the WW come to mind), but in no way do the books imply that because these stories and lore happened in the past, they must happen again in the present or in the future.  Lore serves two functions in the books, as a cautionary tale, and as way to provide justification for a particular rule/belief of the current times.  A great example of this is the story of the Rat Cook, it is used as a tale to scare children and as a way to instill in people the importance of respecting guest rights.  But no one is expecting the Rat Cook to be born again, no one is expecting to see a giant rat around the Night Fort eating its children, and so on.  Frey Pie is a satisfying story point, but Manderly wasn't fulfilling any prophecy, he just used lore as inspiration and to get rid of evidence.

Prophecies are things that haven't happened yet in Westeros, and that some characters say will happen at some point in the future.  The Prince that Was Promised / the rebirth of Azor Ahai, Sansa slaying a giant in a castle made of snow, and Cersei's children having golden hair and golden shrouds, are prophecies.  Some have come to pass already, and some have yet to happen.  And there are indications that we may be right in the middle of a prophecy becoming true.  Cersei having three golden haired children was a prophecy made by Maggy the Frog which came true, Sansa slaying a giant hasn't happened (in the books, at least), and we seem to be in the middle of the Long Night prophecy coming true with the White Walkers rising and moving south; but we still don't know who is Azor Ahai reborn.

To me, the Nissa Nissa story is the past, it explains how Azor Ahai's sword was forged and why it is special, but it does not imply that this sword needs to be forged again.  People need to be born again, swords don't.  The second coming of Azor Ahai is a prophecy, the forging of Lightbringer is lore/history.  Note that the lore about Azor Ahai doesn't say that he was born out of fire the first time, he was just a regular man who forged a great sword to fight the Others and became a hero when he defeated them.  The prophecy says he will be born again when the WW rise again, this time out of fire, and he will end the Long Night.  So, there's a difference between the history (how things came to be) vs. the prophecy (how things will be sometime in the future).

Should the prophecy say that AA needs to forge a sword again, we would have heard about it by now.  We read about AA and TPTWP several times from several characters, we only read about the Nissa Nissa story once.  If the forging of the sword were important, we would have read about AA having to do it again.  Instead, we read about how Lightbringer is supposed to look like and how it's supposed to act, because the character that has the sword is supposed to be AA.  It's Westeros' equivalent to a DNA test.  This is why Maester Aemon asks so many questions about Stannis' sword and how he figures out that Stannis is a fake (the swor

What the prophecy says is: 

"It has been foretold in the books at Asshai that when the stars bleed and the cold winds blow, a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. That sword will be Lightbringer. The one who draws it will be Azor Ahai reborn."

So, all AA reborn needs to do, is pull a sword out of a stone pyre.  He doesn't need to temper it again.

Just spitballing, but have read somewhere that the Iron Throne is going to get melted down...wouldn't it be interesting if Lightbringer is drawn from that?

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

D&D have  said that they feel the pressure to keep topping themselves in the set piece department, and it shows in terms of the battles getting bigger and bigger. D&D have also said that they know the audience is expecting bigger and bigger set pieces, and if the reactions in the Burlington Bar GOT videos are any indication, they're not wrong. I don't think the wider audience is tuning in for thoughtful, subtle character drama, and frankly if they truly wanted that, they'd be watching something else. They want spectacle. They want to have their minds blown. They want explosions. They want epic battles with mass destruction. They want badass swordfights. They want dragons setting shit on fire. And all indications are from filming information that they are going to get that in Season 8 in spades, and they're likely going to get that the expense of character-driven interactions.

 

I agree for the most part, but what ups the stakes is the character-driven moments during battles. And those need build-up, so character-driven moments in general are as important even in that respect. Like in the loot train battle, that was particularly tense because most (standard disclaimers apply) people didn't want Dany to loose but didn't want Jaime to die, and Tyrion was there to stress that feeling. Otherwhise, GoT would be a kind of Transformers-like soulless and boring CGI/battle fest and I doubt it'd engage people as much.

I'm not worried for S8 , because of who the main fighters will be. Battle couples, friends, frenemies etc. will certainly make for great character interactions during all the battles.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[OhOkayWhat]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I doubt it. What's Sansa going to die, whine the AOTD to death?

Or she will be one of the few people who will be calm enough in the middle of a supernatural overwhelming crisis.

 

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I don't think the wider audience is tuning in for thoughtful, subtle character drama, and frankly if they truly wanted that, they'd be watching something else. They want spectacle. They want to have their minds blown. They want explosions. They want epic battles with mass destruction. They want badass swordfights. They want dragons setting shit on fire. And all indications are from filming information that they are going to get that in Season 8 in spades, and they're likely going to get that the expense of character-driven interactions.

I have seen enough people to react to no-action scenes of the show to doubt they will want only the big spectacle.

Also doubt there is enough post-production time to make it a 6 hours (or more) long action movie with cgi dragons and WW armies.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

I don't think S2 E9 was insight between Cersei and Sansa for nothing.

IMHO

Sansa has no insight into Cersei other than she's cruel and dangerous, and everyone (even Arya, who has never had a conversation with her) knows that she's cruel and dangerous. 

Quote

Not according to what we've been given in show ( as rushed as it is ) and by GRRM own words.

Well, no. TV Sansa has only one area of specialized, unique knowledge (Littlefinger), which is irrelevant to the AOTD and by S8 has been rendered obsolete in any event. The only other thing she knows how to do (run Winterfell) is about to be obsolete as well for the better part of S8, since Winterfell is attacked and burned midseason.

Sansa brings nothing to the AOTD table. I expect there will be a few S8 meetings where Sansa bitches about Jon's judgment at great length, and that will be the extent of her "contribution." I imagine the Cersei deal alone will lead to an extended tantrum on Sansa's part once Jon is back in the North.

37 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

I agree for the most part, but what ups the stakes is the character-driven moments during battles. And those need build-up, so character-driven moments are as important even in that respect. Like in the loot train battle, that was particularly tense because most (standard disclaimers apply) people didn't want Dany to loose but didn't want Jaime to die, and Tyrion was there to stress that feeling. Otherwhise, GoT would be a kind of Transformer-like soulless and boring CGI/battle fest and I doubt it'd engage people as much.

I agree that character-driven moments can enhance the action for the audience, but I also think it's fair to say that over the years the show has been becoming increasingly...streamlined (or, as less charitable fans have put it, dumbed down) in favour of action and spectacle, and the audience has gotten even bigger. Fans may say they don't want pseudo-medieval Transformers, but they sure are tuning in to watch it in droves. 

It's probably just as well, because several of the big character meeting or reunion scenes that should have been powerful and momentous fell flat in my opinion (Arya/Sansa, Sansa/Bran, Tyrion/Jaime, Tyrion/Cersei, Davos/Gendry, etc.). 

Quote

I'm not worried for S8 , because of who the main fighters will be. Battle couples, friends, frenemies etc. will certainly make for great character interactions during all the battles.

I hope so, but I'm not confident. With the wight hunt, there were some meaningful interactions (Jon and Jorah talking about Longclaw), but there were a lot of missed opportunities. The Hound not mentioning Sansa or Arya to Jon? Gendry not mentioning Arya to Jon? It just seemed like a waste.

31 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Or she will be one of the few people who will be calm enough in the middle of a supernatural overwhelming crisis.

Because of Sansa's overwhelming experience with the WWs...? If it's a Blackwater situation, it will probably be Gilly, who unlike Sansa has some firsthand knowledge in this department, calming Sansa down, not the other way around. 

Quote

Also doubt there is enough post-production time to make it a 6 hours (or more) long action movie with cgi dragons and WW armies.

We know that there are two very big battles: one is long enough and crazy enough that it took several months to shoot, and another is long enough that it will apparently span two episodes. That's not the whole of the season, but it is a very big chunk. And to bring this back to Sansa, with Sansa not fighting, riding a dragon, or using magic, that necessarily points to a significantly reduced role for her in Season 8...which makes sense, since with Littlefinger's death she has run out of storyline.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

5 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Sansa has no insight into Cersei other than she's cruel and dangerous, and everyone (even Arya, who has never had a conversation with her) knows that she's cruel and dangerous. 

The scene had nothing to do with Cersei being cruel and dangerous, it had everything to do in how they were portrayed at a time of a final conflict.

One was in power and ran off scared, drunk and ready to end her and her child's life, the other scared young yet still had compassion for a wounded soldier and the others in the room despite the danger.

[shireenbamfatheon]

D&D aren't going to waste characters like Sansa, Tyrion, Sam, Cersei, Varys and Davos because it's battle time and only Jon, Daenerys, Arya and Brienne get to shine. They've cast a lot of peasants for the next season so we'll possibly see some of the former interact with them and try to maintain order amongst the chaos. And knowing how much the showrunners love Lena, Peter and Liam, and how this is their last chance to score Emmy noms in the acting department for Peter and Lena, I'm sure we'll get lots of dialogue-heavy scenes. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by shireenbamfatheon
A word

[Edith]

[GraceK]

7 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

One was in power and ran off scared, drunk and ready to end her and her child's life, the other scared young yet still had compassion for a wounded soldier and the others in the room despite the danger.

Sansa ran off and locked herself in her room if you remember as well. 

Cersei sat herself on the Iron Throne and was prepared to feed poison to her son so he wouldn’t be brutally murdered like Elias kids at the sack of Kings Landing. Let’s not twist the narrative to prop up our favorites please.

Edited May 27, 2018 by GraceK