Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Happy Harpy]

14 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Lyanna was vocally opposed to Jon going south in 702, so that’s consistent.

Also, while admittedly this isn’t a beat-by-beat recap, it sounds like the Hound doesn’t even interact with Sansa upon arriving at Winterfell.  SanSan fans are surely long used to disappointment from the show, but I expect that will just rub more salt in the wound.

She was, and her reaction to Dany is also in line with her answer to Stannis; but she sounds as the main naysayer, which is different from before. After seeing the dragons, I thought she'd be more sensible. At least she still wants Jon as her king.

After the omission of most romantic subtext, Brienne not mentioning Sandor by name to Sansa in 6x02, and "it's gingers I hate", Sansa/Sandor was already in doubt. Now that Arya and Gendry go the sexual tension way, Jonerys is still romantic, Missandworm still going strong, Jaime/Brienne an option per Gwen's interviews, + the unholy Euron/Cersei wedding, I don't think there's going to be yet another ship.

On a side note, the GC didn't bring elephants.

9 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

But, why? He has to know that Cersei will kill him if Dany and Jon are defeated. I still find it difficult to understand the motivation for Tyrion's betrayal.

Same here. Maybe he thinks about double-crossing Cersei, too, and raising her child?

6 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Also, interesting that Qyburn knows about the Ice Dragon breaching the wall already, and really Cersei doesn’t care? Whose supplying him with this information? Is it possible it’s Tyrion and that’s the betrayal?

I think Jon and Bran talked about sending ravens to warn everyone about the Wall and the dragon?

Attacking Castle Black, hell of a cliffhanger. Will Beric and Tormund even make it to WF? I'll start a praying circle for Edd, but it failed for Shireen so... :((

Edited March 21, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[nikma]

Here are Friki's leaks for S6E10. Just to prove that he had leaks for the entire season.

[Happy Harpy]

And because I forgot:

 

OMG WE HAVE LEAKS!!!

[SimoneS]

3 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Attacking Castle Black, hell of a cliffhanger. Will Beric and Tormund even make it to WF? I'll start a praying circle for Edd, but it failed for Shireen so... :((

I think the odds are better for Beric and Tormund to make it to Winterfell than Edd. There is more drama with Beric reuniting with Melisandre and Tormund with Jon before their deaths. 

[Happy Harpy]

2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I think the odds are better for Beric and Tormund to make it to Winterfell than Edd. There is more drama with Beric reuniting with Melisandre and Tormund with Jon before their deaths. 

Yeah, I'm afraid so. It's possible that people who theorized about Beric giving the kiss of life to another character (vs books) are right, too.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[Eyes High]

16 minutes ago, nikma said:

Here are Friki's leaks for S6E10. Just to prove that he had leaks for the entire season.

Did you actually watch the video? Because if you had, you'd probably see that it was just info and speculation from other sources, not a complete episode summary from his source. And he's careful to point out that it came from somewhere other than his source ("Analisis de la informacion publicada," or "analysis of the published information"), meaning that he's just reproducing what was already posted elsewhere to avoid HBO's wrath. So sorry, that proves nothing and actually reinforces my point.

I was around when all this happened in Season 6, and I remember very clearly Friki's complete leak summaries drying up early on. There were other spoilers for S6 from other sources (Truede, that extra who leaked the BOTB in its entirety), but Friki learned his lesson, at least for a while, and stopped posting those complete episode summaries before the episodes aired. Instead, you got videos like these, where he cobbles together speculation about information already published elsewhere, which he knew HBO could do nothing about, since speculation about information published elsewhere is covered by fair use.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Eyes High

[onyxrose81]

SanSan was never a thing the moment they hired Rory.

No comment about Sansa and the Northerners.  

So...Dany had a lot of faith her man wouldn't be roasted and allowed to ride?  I mean, I guess love makes you stupid and all that...

I will weep at the Jon/Arya reunion.  

Sam and Dany...*shrugs*  I can't bring myself to care.  Dickon should have just bent the damn knee.

HBO just needs to stop at this point.  It's happening my dudes.  Way to draw more attention to it.  

[SimoneS]

My other two quandaries: 1) Where is Yara? Does she still have her tongue? Theon saved her so where is she? I can't remember if Gemma pregnant during season 8. 2) What message does the Night King write on Castle Black's wall and what does it mean? I know speculation is that he is a Stark.

[ElizaD]

If the show didn't want to waste any money on elephants, I'm glad they included a scene with Cersei doing a book reader complaint about not getting them. Though they did save an extra million or two by not including Jaime in the episode.

Unsurprisingly, Sansan is dead. I still can't guess whether Arya/Gendry will become an actual thing or remain shipper-baiting subtext.

If Jon/Dany go to the Wall and Sansa is in charge when Jaime arrives, she won't be happy. I wonder whether she'll come across as genuinely suspicious of Tyrion after the news or just think he's the "good Lannister" who, like everyone else, failed to see Cersei as the threat Sansa believes she is.

[WindyNights]

On 3/11/2019 at 3:44 PM, LadyChaos said:

So i thought it worth pointing out that, when the Dosh Kaleen made their predictions that Dany's child would be the stallion that mounts the world and would bring all people into one kalassar; she doesn't say that it is Drogo's son that will do so.  She says that she has seen that she will bare a son and that he will be the stallion that mounts the world.  It could be that, that prophecy is still true, only it is the son that she will make with Jon that will unite everyone, and rule the world. 

In the books, it's made that clear that this prophecy really was about Rhaego, Dany's dead son. We even see a vision of what could've been if he had survived.

[nikma]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

I was around when all this happened in Season 6, and I remember very clearly Friki's complete leak summaries drying up early on.

I was too. He gave spoilers as speculations. That was his strategy back then. 

[Happy Harpy]

Cersei's shot in the trailer with her glass of wine and tears in her eyes could be after she sleeps with Euron in 8x01. Friki says it should be "a bit traumatic" and remind her of when she laid with Robert and she didn't want it.

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

My other two quandaries: 1) Where is Yara? Does she still have her tongue?

She still has her tongue, since she argues with Euron on the boat.

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

My other two quandaries: 1) Where is Yara? Does she still have her tongue? Theon saved her so where is she? I can't remember if Gemma pregnant during season 8. 2) What message does the Night King write on Castle Black's wall and what does it mean? I know speculation is that he is a Stark.

Yara apparently speaks in her conversation with Euron, so no tongue removal, thank God.

Gemma was on maternity leave during at least some of filming of S8, and she was apparently working on at least one other project during the filming as well. It may be that Theon just leaves Yara with Ironborn who support her as their queen and that's the last we see of her until Tyrion's trial.

1 minute ago, ElizaD said:

Unsurprisingly, Sansan is dead. I still can't guess whether Arya/Gendry will become an actual thing or remain shipper-baiting subtext.

It's too soon in my opinion to say that SanSan is dead, but it's not looking good.

I'm 50/50 on whether Arya/Gendry is going to be an endgame thing or whether this is just to twist the knife assuming Gendry dies in 8x03. 

[SimoneS]

3 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

If the show didn't want to waste any money on elephants, I'm glad they included a scene with Cersei doing a book reader complaint about not getting them. Though they did save an extra million or two by not including Jaime in the episode.

They didn't save any money by not including NCW in the episode. They have to pay him. However, they likely saved a bundle on the CGI by dumping the elephants.

[nikma]

So it feels like around  10-15 minutes will be devoted to Cersei/Euron/Theon. And around 40 minutes to WF. 

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

Many didn't believe, or point blank refused to believe, AFTL at the time...

Hasn't proved him / herself yet.

We have 3 weeks to go.

Just saying.  :  )

[nikma]

Yeah. They put elephants in S7 in case thet were able to pay for them in S8, but since they weren't it will make a fun scene. Lol

[tangerine95]

I wanted to avoid the leaks but I have no self control apparently lol.

I like most of what we've heard and nothing is that unexpected.Except Jon riding Rheagal before he even knows he's a Targ.That scene sounds great,can't wait to see jonerys all in love as a couple.

I'm glad Jon and Arya get a private reunion,I know it's going to make me emotional.It was sort of unexpected that he asks for her help getting Sansa and Dany to get along but Sansa also sounds worse than I expected about the whole bend the knee thing.

I genuinely don't understand what the northerners and Sansa want from Jon.They believe him that the NK is coming apparently.They know they don't have enough resources to fight and survive.Jon gets them the army and dragons which is the absolute best chance.In return they bend the knee which pretty much any ruler would have asked and expected.They don't want Dany,they don't want to make peace with the Lannisters.How are they going to survive then?

Also they think Dany is this monster or whatever yet they feel they can be rude to her face with no fear?That makes no sense to me,you'd think they'd at least fear her if they think she's so bad.

Sam's reaction was fine,I don't have a huge problem with it.Sounds like he's upset about his brother.What doesn't make sense is him insisting to Jon that he should be king.Emotionally I get he wants his best friend on the throne but how does he think Jon gets there when his main opposition Dany has all the power and her armies and dragons won't care at all if Jon is legitimate.

[SimoneS]

14 minutes ago, onyxrose81 said:

SanSan was never a thing the moment they hired Rory.

This was always my position. 

[Eyes High]

3 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Hasn't proved him / herself yet.

We have 3 weeks to go.

Just saying.  :  )

Claytoy's 8x01 info doesn't match Friki's on a number of points. Jaime doesn't appear in 8x01, for starters, and Claytoy claimed that he did.

If they have a limited CGI budget, I'd rather they'd spend it on Ghost than elephants. 

[nikma]

Friki just said that he will give more spoilers one way or another.

[SimoneS]

9 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Yara apparently speaks in her conversation with Euron, so no tongue removal, thank God.

Gemma was on maternity leave during at least some of filming of S8, and she was apparently working on at least one other project during the filming as well. It may be that Theon just leaves Yara with Ironborn who support her as their queen and that's the last we see of her until Tyrion's trial.

I read that Euron speaks to her, not that she spoke which is why I wondered, but if other translations are clearer, I am happy that she still has her tongue.

[nikma]

FRIKI  about his future "predictions" lol. 

I will upload an edited version tonight, just me talking to the camera without a single frame or sound they can claim copyright on, and let’s see what happens... They can’t forbid me to speak my mind about the series, and I don’t think that they would bother blocking me if I’m wrong in my predictions. Thanks everyone for your support.

One more thing, I wanted to do an english version, but my schedule can’t be tighter. I don’t have more time to film or edit, but all my videos are open to community contributions, in case someone wants to add subtitles.

I plan to keep sharing what I find out, one way or another.

Best regards!

[SimoneS]

8 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Sam's reaction was fine,I don't have a huge problem with it.Sounds like he's upset about his brother.What doesn't make sense is him insisting to Jon that he should be king.Emotionally I get he wants his best friend on the throne but how does he think Jon gets there when his main opposition Dany has all the power and her armies and dragons won't care at all if Jon is legitimate.

It is like this fact doesn't register with Sam or the Northerners. They are delusional if they think that her 100,000 Unsullied and Dothraki along with her dragons, will just shrug while their 10,000 attempt to overthrow or attack Dany.

Edited March 21, 2019 by SimoneS

[tangerine95]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

It is like this fact doesn't register with Sam or the Northerners. They are delusional if they think that her 100,000 Unsullied and Dothraki along with her dragons, will just shrug while their 10,000 attempt to overthrow or attack Dany.

Exactly,I'm just like are these people aware she's way more powerful than them and he power doesn't rest at all on being rightful heir.I mean I guess it's cause they want the audience to see a tension over who is heir and a rift between Jon and Dany but in universe it's not very logical imo.

[SimoneS]

14 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Exactly,I'm just like are these people aware she's way more powerful than them and he power doesn't rest at all on being rightful heir.I mean I guess it's cause they want the audience to see a tension over who is heir and a rift between Jon and Dany but in universe it's not very logical imo.

It is convenient that not one person so far has proposed the obvious solution to stop the distrust: Dany marry Jon. Yet entering into a political marriage is the very reason that Tyrion advised Daenerys to leave Daario in Meereen. Goodness knows, Daenerys could use Daario and the Seven Sons right about now.

Edited March 21, 2019 by SimoneS

[Happy Harpy]

The description of Dany and Jon's passionate kiss, and some hopes being "dissolved like sugar", is hilarious.

Gendry making weapons for everyone, yay. Making a multi-use dragonglass weapon for his lady, and dragonglass ax for his future surrogate father in law, awww. I'm dissolving like sugar, but in a good way, LOL.

29 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Sam's reaction was fine,I don't have a huge problem with it.Sounds like he's upset about his brother.What doesn't make sense is him insisting to Jon that he should be king.Emotionally I get he wants his best friend on the throne but how does he think Jon gets there when his main opposition Dany has all the power and her armies and dragons won't care at all if Jon is legitimate.

I didn't have a problem with it either, except that he seems to dump everything on Jon without taking gloves, because he's upset.

I more than ever expect Jon to serve him back his pep talk about Bolton, maybe with some "when you know her" because Sam's his friend. I think that Jorah might play a role, too, since he's there when Dany tells Sam -I would love it, I really love the Jorah/Sam friendship.

39 minutes ago, nikma said:

I was too. He gave spoilers as speculations. That was his strategy back then. 

He still does, less carefull about it at times but "tal vez, quizas, quien sabe" are aplenty.

24 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I read that Euron speaks to her, not that she spoke which is why I wondered, but if other translations are clearer, I am happy that she still has her tongue.

Friki says that "she asks him why he didn't kill her". So yes, positive.

It seems there will be many wightified men of the NW in the NK's army. Forget Hodor, the familiar face is probably going to be Edd 😞

Edited March 21, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[tangerine95]

Just now, SimoneS said:

It is convenient that not one person so far has proposed the obvious solution to stop the distrust: Dany marry Jon. Yet entering into a political marriage is the very reason that Tyrion advised Daenerys to leave Daario in Meereen. Even though she could use Daario and the Seven Sons right about now.

That's not enough drama tho lol.But yeah an obvious solution is being ignored for 2 seasons now.

[nikma]

Bronn will be in e1 as well. Friki said that's a scene he forgot to include.

But no Jaime or Edmure.

[Happy Harpy]

2 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

That's not enough drama tho lol.But yeah an obvious solution is being ignored for 2 seasons now.

Or the writers need someone to look smart for suggesting the obvious. Unless they need someone not suggesting the obvious as a hint that said someone is jealous.

[Cosmosgravitation]

7 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It is convenient that not one person so far has proposed the obvious solution to stop the distrust: Dany marry Jon. Yet entering into a political marriage is the very reason that Tyrion advised Daenerys to leave Daario in Meereen. Goodness knows, Daenerys could use Daario and the Seven Sons right about now.

Yeah, it is strange.  Knowing D&D, I wouldn't be surprised if Sansa suggests a wedding in episode three and everyone is stunned and amazed, ignoring it being the super simple solution that should have crossed everyone's minds at least twice. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Cosmosgravitation

[GraceK]

1 minute ago, Cosmosgravitation said:

Yeah, it is strange.  Knowing D&D, I wouldn't be surprised if Sansa suggests a wedding in episode three and everyone is stunned and amazed, ignoring it being the super simple solution that should have crossed everyone's minds at least twice. 

I would love that just to see the Jonsas break down 😂😂😂🤣

[onyxrose81]

Yeah, Jon and Dany are already smashing so no one is going to mention marriage?  Ugh I cannot.

[tangerine95]

3 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Or the writers need someone to look smart for suggesting the obvious. Unless they need someone not suggesting the obvious as a hint that said someone is jealous.

I think it's also possible they don't want it to be political.Like if the big thing with Jon and Dany is they chose love despite being related and everyone being against them then getting married because they both want that would be a more romantic choice than doing it because they advisors said it's smart.I could be it being either of these tbh.

[Eyes High]

3 minutes ago, Cosmosgravitation said:

Yeah, it is strange.  Knowing D&D, I wouldn't be surprised if Sansa suggests a wedding in episode three and everyone is stunned and amazed, ignoring it being the super simple solution that should have crossed everyone's minds at least twice. 

Well, it wouldn't be episode 3, since that's going to be the nonstop action episode, but episode 2, quite possibly.

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I would love that just to see the Jonsas break down 😂😂😂🤣

From Friki's description--and to be fair, in between the Spanish and the translations, it's a bit like a game of Telephone at this point--it sounds like 8x01 took a sledgehammer to the main Sansa ships: Jon is gaga for Dany while asking for help from Arya on how to manage Sansa, SanSan don't even have any interactions, Gendry is flirting with Arya, and Sansa is (rightfully, from the sounds of it) suspicious of Tyrion. I guess there's always Sweetrobin, heh.

[GrailKing]

Some of this may be been stated, I did find #10 interesting.
level 2
tierras_ignoradas
The night is dark and full of terrors
Score hidden
·
1 hour ago
This is very good and much better than the other translation. The only things I will add are:

Friki warns that some of the leaks may appear in episode 1, but others in 2 or 3.

Northerners are initially afraid of the dragons.

I didn't think Friki meant that Varys and Tyrion discuss genitalia. Instead he insinuates that the lack genitalia makes a Varys see Dany differently than Tyrion. Just my opinion.

Sansa and several northerners are wary of Dany, despite her efforts to ingratiate. They notice Jon is in love with her and question his judgment. Brann declares there is no time to argue, and updates everyone on the NK. This calms them down, despite further flare ups. Jorah Mormont calms Lady Lyanna down.

Additional concerns regarding Cersei sending the Lannister armies. Sansa feels it's a trap. Tyrion tries to convince people (esp Sansa) that Cersei "has changed and can be trusted" Suspicions of Tyrion begin.

Friki implied that Cersei finds herself having to sleep with Euron and does not like it.

In general, Gendry is making bespoke dragonglass weapons for different people.

Brann dumps telling Jon about his parentage on Sam. Bran doesn't tell Jon directly.

Sam tells Jon abt Dany killing his father & brother for not bending the knee. Jon is shocked by this revelation.

Sam explains his parentage - Lyanna and Rhaegar and that he is the true heir to the Iron Throne. Jon refuses to believe this because Ned would never lie.

Everything else u/Hang_the_dj2 explained very well. It is so much easier to add to someone else. BTW,

homieprezcomey this is a better translation than the other one.

Some corrections to your add-ons:

All of the things he mentions are from episode 1 - but he says he might add more details later.

Tyrion and Varys do indeed make genitalia jokes. No deeper meaning here, especially not in regard to Daenerys.

"Jorah Mormont calms Lady Lyanna down" - No, there's no mention of any interaction between Lyanna and Jorah at all.

"Suspicions of Tyrion begin" - Maybe for someone who know the treason leaks, but that's not what is shown in the episode.

3
Varys & Tyrion probably in a cart (not horseback riding) might be talking "balls" (or lack thereof)

Jon/Bran reunion. Jon to Bran "Let me see how much you've grown, almost a man grown now ..." or smth to that effect

Sansa "offers" WF to Danny. Danny is a aware of the cold reception, some small talk the North is so beautiful ... you're as beautiful as the North"

Bran has to let them know that the Wall has fallen and the NK has a dragon so a Grand Northern Assembly is organized: Jon in the middle, Sanas and Danny on each of his sides. Subjects will include:

introducing Danny

the current status of the troops

Small Jon Umber in attendance

Jon says they need to send ravens to let everybody know the KN has crossed the Wall and has his own dragon

Danny watching the reaction of the Northern Lords which is not very sensible

Lyanna Mormont to Jon: "Don't forget that we chose you not Danny, your job is to rule the North"

Jon: "We need allies/Danny to fight back the WW" - Jon is obsessed w/ allies and Danny is his biggest ally 🙂

Tyrion speaks well of Jon and tells them that his sister will send troops

The Northern Lords are not happy to hear that Lannister troops are about to come in the North

Jon tries to convince them that they need all the help that they can get, even Lannister troops

The Assembly does not conclude well. Sansa is pissed "Not only did you bring Danny in the North but now you bring Lannister troops too?"

This is the first of many assemblies. They need to get together to make all sorts of plans

5) Sansa meets w/ Tyrion to talks about the Lannister troops: "You really trust your sister and believe she'll send troops to help the North?"

Tyrion, thinking that Cersei is pregnant and she has a reason to fight, he tries to assure Sansa that his sister is somewhat changed and he trusts her and that she will indeed send troops.

6) Jon/Arya reunion - they embrace lovingly. They "compare" swords (Longclaw vs Needle):

Jon: Did you get to used Needle? Arya: A time or two

Jon realises that Sanasa doesn't like Danny and he asks Arya to help put in a good word on his behalf.

7) KL

the Greyjoy fleet gets the Golden Company to KL.

Qyburn tells Cersei that the NK has crossed the Wall and he has a dragon which is great news for Cercei "let them kill each other in the North"

Euron/Yara talk -

Y: "why don't you kill me now?"

E: "you're my family blah, blah ... I have better plans than you, I'm gonna get me some Cersei ass!"

in the Throne Room, Euron presents Harry Strickland & The Golden Company (minus elephants)

Cercei is having a tantrum, she dismissed Strickland BUT Euron says he kept his part of the deal and now he's after that Cersei ass: You have to fulfill your part of the deal Cersei and ... tum! tum! tum! ... she does.

Postcoital talk may include Cersei pointing out that he didn't bring the elephants and something about enjoying it as much as she enjoyed it when she had to give it to Robert.

Meanwhile ...

Yara who is on one of Euron's ships is freed by ... tum! tum! tum! ... Theon in a blitz operation after which he asks permission from his sister, who is the true queen of the Iron Islands, to go North and help the Starks and she agrees.

😎 Back to WF where there are many thing to be organised, and will follow the 3 advisors: Davos, Varys and Tyrion - all 3 aware of Jonerys

love is in the air constantly and escalating: Jonerys shippers rejoice

the Karstark troops will arrive (eventually ... )

the Dothraki will keep Danny informed about what the dragons are up to

How to train your dragon - Jon's first flying lesson: Danny gets on Drogo and dares Jon to get on Rhaegal. Jon is reticent but, eventually, clumsily gets on Rhaegal and they take off ... (OK, I literally have butterflies in my stomach as I write this LOL)

Eventually they land and passionately kiss

9) Other reunions: Arya/The Hound, Arya/Gendry (in the smithy). Different characters will have different preferences in dragonglass weapons and Gendry will try to accommodate them

Maybe the Hound will order a dragonglass ax.

Maybe Arya will ask for her dragonglass Valyrian steel dagger to be turned into a spear. Gendry is impressed by Arya's dagger. She wants a weapon with which she can defend herself better, they talk about attaching the dagger to a pole.

The now grown and confident Arya gets angry at Gendry who keeps calling her My Lady - possible sexual tension

10) After that first disastrous assembly, Jon has to talk to Sansa. She keeps telling him that his duty is to defend the North and he's not talking her advice seriously, he keeps telling her they need allies. Eventually Sansa confronts Jon: Did you bend the knee for the North or for love?

11) Jorah introduces Sam to Danny. Danny is grateful to Sam for curing Jorah.

Danny: But you're the son of Randyll Tarly? Yes! The brother of Dickon Tarly? Yes! Well ... I've got something to tell you...

Sam is excited that the Queen wants to talk to him.

Danny: *See, I told you father to band the knee and he was no and no, so what could I do, I had to roast him, I had to ... *

Sam: *well, he wasn't a great father to me ... *

Danny: ... and your brother too..." Sam starts tearing up: *Thank you for telling me!"

12) Sam confused in his emotions goes to talk to Bran. Bran tells him that they need to tell Jon the truth.

Edited March 21, 2019 by GrailKing

[SimoneS]

27 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

It seems there will be many wightified men of the NW in the NK's army. Forget Hodor, the familiar face is probably going to be Edd 😞

Now there is the drama. Jon will be distraught to see reanimated Edd attacking Winterfell.

Edited March 21, 2019 by SimoneS

[LadyChaos]

IMO, I understand the hesitancy of the Northerners over Dany and co.. and Lannister Truce.  To them, just as with Sansa, the AotD is an abstract enemy.  They believe Jon, but at the same time its not real to them.  So I suspect in the first 2 eps and part of the 3rd ep, there will be alot of squabbling about Jonerys and her presence, then when they see the AotD, they will all fall back in line with Jon happily enough. 

[Smad]

27 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Eventually Sansa confronts Jon: Did you bend the knee for the North or for love?

Perfectly valid question especially if Jon/Dany are stupid enough to openly show they are together romantically. As we saw, he bend the knee to get some Dany ass. She had pledged to help the North without asking anything in return so he didn't have to kneel and hand her the North anymore. So it's perfectly valid to question Jon on that front and doubt him because of it. Of course if only someone were to ask Bran, he could tell them that yes, Jon did it for sex/love and not to get an ally.

[Minneapple]

I wonder if the deaths of the Tarlys will be a bigger deal for Dany than they will for Sam. Like it will be her "I can't just dracarys everyone who disagrees with me" moment. Maybe then she'll really start formulating her ideas for breaking the wheel.

I can't believe Sansa is the only one who's all "CERSEI CAN'T BE TRUSTED." I mean, Tyrion has met Cersei, right? 

[joliefaire]

2 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I can't believe Sansa is the only one who's all "CERSEI CAN'T BE TRUSTED." I mean, Tyrion has met Cersei, right? 

That's the one thing I just can't get my head around--Tyrion tries to convince the Northerners that Cersei is coming to help?  I mean, WUT??  HUH??  Its so far out in left field, it seems like dialog from a different show or something.  I can't make any sense of it at all.

[nikma]

He thinks she will do anything to protect her child.

[LadyChaos]

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I wonder if the deaths of the Tarlys will be a bigger deal for Dany than they will for Sam. Like it will be her "I can't just dracarys everyone who disagrees with me" moment. Maybe then she'll really start formulating her ideas for breaking the wheel.

I can't believe Sansa is the only one who's all "CERSEI CAN'T BE TRUSTED." I mean, Tyrion has met Cersei, right? 

I hope Dany starts to understand this, because while it was understandable that she killed the father, she could have taken Dickon as a POW and gave him time to think instead of dracarys him.  I mean if a few Dothraki took him, he wouldn't have been able to fight.  

I don't think that Tyrion honestly believes that Cersei can be trusted.  I think he just thinks that she at least has sense enough to see when the best thing for her and her unborn childs survival is to take the truce.  What I think Tyrion is not seeing, is that Cersei knows no matter what she does; her and her unborn child are dead so she just as soon see the whole world burn down with her just as the Mad King did.

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, LadyChaos said:

I hope Dany starts to understand this, because while it was understandable that she killed the father, she could have taken Dickon as a POW and gave him time to think instead of dracarys him.  I mean if a few Dothraki took him, he wouldn't have been able to fight.  

I wish people cared this much about Jon executing Ollie, an actual misguided child than Dickon, a grown man whose ego caused him to choose death with his father, leaving his mother and sister alone in the middle of a war.

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

I wish people cared this much about Jon executing Ollie, an actual misguided child than Dickon, a grown man whose ego caused him to choose death with his father, leaving his mother and sister alone in the middle of a war.

Some do. 

[Happy Harpy]

54 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

10) After that first disastrous assembly, Jon has to talk to Sansa. She keeps telling him that his duty is to defend the North and he's not talking her advice seriously, he keeps telling her they need allies. Eventually Sansa confronts Jon: Did you bend the knee for the North or for love?

This is where she doesn't have a leg to stand on. Jon is defending the North. He's never thought about anything but defend the North against the biggest threat of all, threat that is already invading it. The audience saw it for how many seasons now? They also saw Jon take his vassals' feelings into account when he refused to bend the knee, stated explicitly in 7x04, he's as far as a dictator as possible.

The audience knows why Jon bent the knee to Dany. He was attracted to her (the "good heart" conversation) long before he did. He bent the knee because he recognized a worthy queen, one who would risk her children's lives to save other lives, for doing what she thought was right, instead of "doing nothing" and let people die because it was politically better for her, who accepted to defeat the NK with him without asking anything in return anymore.

I want the Northerners who will survive in spite of being too stupid for it, including Sansa, to thank Jon on their knees and beg for his forgiveness and their short-sightedness and hindering his efforts.

OTOH, Sansa is right not to trust Cersei. But then she should discuss with Jon about her only, not about Daenerys. And again, precisely because she doesn't trust Cersei, she should be more amenable with Cersei's rival, Daenerys.

17 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I can't believe Sansa is the only one who's all "CERSEI CAN'T BE TRUSTED." I mean, Tyrion has met Cersei, right? 

Friki "imagines" that he's lying about trusting his sister.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[LadyChaos]

12 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I wish people cared this much about Jon executing Ollie, an actual misguided child than Dickon, a grown man whose ego caused him to choose death with his father, leaving his mother and sister alone in the middle of a war.

Ollie stabbed Jon through the heart and committed cold blooded murder.  So yeah...not the same thing.  

Also plot twist:  Jaime dies in 803, Arya takes his face and puts it on so she can get close to Cersei.  When she does, she kills her.  The prophecy of the little brother killing her is still true because the witch saw 'Jaime's' face killing her.

Edited March 21, 2019 by LadyChaos

[joliefaire]

3 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Friki "imagines" that he's lying about trusting his sister.

But why?  To accomplish what end?  That whole issue just confuses the hell out of me, I can't make any sense of it.

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

This is where she doesn't have a leg to stand on. Jon is defending the North.

I think it's a valid question. Danny told him on the ship they will fight together, she will fight for the north, and she didn't require him to bend the knee.

He bent the knee having the puppy eye look.

He is defending the North, but why did he bend the knee when he didn't have to?

Per Frikki it sorta stopped Jon in his tracks when Sansa asked that question.

[tangerine95]

I do believe part of Jon's reason to bend the knee was love.But he wasn't blinded by it or doing it to get Dany to love him back or whatever.He technically didn't have to bend the knee.Dany stopped asking that and agreed to help anyway.So he could have kept independence.But Jon is also an honorable guy above everything else.He saw Dany was a person who would risk her own life for other people,he saw her lose a dragon she thinks of as a child and then still promise to help and turn away from her war for the IT,he got to know her and talk to people who follow her.He also knows that she might have to sacrifice even more in this war than just one dragon and that her resources are what will make the difference.So he bends the knee because it's the one thing he can offer in return.

But Sansa doesn't know this.What she sees is a incredibly powerful queen who could destroy then in a day and I'm sure she knows there are few monarchs who would just bring all their resources north asking for nothing in return.I feel like it makes sense to think Jon just got the best deal he could.Imo this whole thing is unbelievably stupid.A kingdom that's about to face certain death and is aware of it being this obsessed with independence and being horrible towards the only people that can help.