Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[whateverdgaf]

I think Gwen's scene is Brienne getting knighted at last. 

[anamika]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Entirely possible, but I doubt Emilia would give something like that away in an interview.

She did not say no Iron Throne.  Just that maybe characters are realizing that the Iron Throne is not the finish line. Which makes me think that maybe the Iron Throne is not going to be around...

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

That doesn't really answer why Sansa would choose to leave Winterfell permanently, and if she does choose, who would be the Stark in Winterfell in her absence.

We don't how they are going to write these things. Without Robb's will they had the Northern lords randomly elect Jon as KITN despite Ned's trueborn heir sitting next to him and then turned against him two episodes later. Bran was completely normal at the end of season 6 and then turned up as robo-Bran in season 7 so that Sansa could be Lady of WF despite Bran being the actual lord of WF.

If Sansa's book ending is in the south and if the show wants to give her that ending they will write for it - whether it makes sense or not. Maybe Bran is back to normal and takes up his mantle as Lord of WF.  Maybe Sansa marries for alliances down south? Maybe Sansa marries SR for an alliance with the Vale?  I don't know. In the books, it's possible her story intersects with that of fAegon, but I am not sure how her story will end in the North.

But just as a book reader, I don't think Sansa's endgame in the books is as Lady of WF.

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Sure, but what are they going to do at this point? Fire her?

Well, they can't do anything, but I would think that the actors would respect D&D's wishes and all the efforts and lengths to which the producers/HBO have gone to for secrecy and not tattoo the ending on their elbows for everyone to see.

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

which means that that's not his actual storyline for S8.

Could be. But it would be a continuation of his season 7 plot where he admits to Cersei about holding Dany back. And I think Cogman mentioned that they were planning on exploring Tyrion's ties to his family.

What's surprising is that they are connecting Tyrion to Cersei. Not even Jaime. But Cersei. Makes no sense from a book perspective considering what book Tyrion wants to to do book Cersei. But apparently show Tyrion still loves Cersei. Why, I don't know.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

I've got to say, I'm pretty confused with what they are doing with the Tyrion promo stuff.  These quotes about Tyrion having to pick between Cersei and Dany and not wanting his sister to die seem designed to plant the idea that he might switch sides back to Team Lannister.  If Friki's leaks about Tyrion are true, it just seems weird that HBO would be teasing his betrayal right from the get go.  I would have thought they would want it to be more of an "OMG" moment where the audience is shocked. 

I agree. They're not only teasing his betrayal, they're teasing his execution (as they did in the trailer). Very odd.

30 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

I think Gwen's scene is Brienne getting knighted at last. 

I would really like this, although not all the storyboard gifts are necessarily shining moments for the characters (Jaime and Bran getting crippled, e.g.).

20 minutes ago, anamika said:

She did not say no Iron Throne.  Just that maybe characters are realizing that the Iron Throne is not the finish line. Which makes me think that maybe the Iron Throne is not going to be around...

I think it's a mistake to take any preseason actor statements in interviews about upcoming plots at face value. I remember how Emilia before Season 7 was going on about how Dany was happy being single, blah blah blah. Jon and Dany's main storyline in Season 7 was this pivotal budding romantic relationship, and no one in the cast breathed a word of it in the preseason interviews.

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But just as a book reader, I don't think Sansa's endgame in the books is as Lady of WF.

Personally, I don't, either. I just have trouble seeing any way around it given how Sansa has been characterized in the show in recent seasons, as someone who thinks it was a mistake to leave Winterfell, who wants Winterfell to herself to run unimpeded, and who has zero desire to be anywhere else. Assuming she survives, what could possibly change her priorities?

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And I think Cogman mentioned that they were planning on exploring Tyrion's ties to his family.

Oh, I don't doubt that they're going to get into Tyrion's Lannister issues, and Tyrion may well have an existential crisis over aiding and abetting the destruction of his remaining family. I'm guessing he has a big argument with Jaime over it at Winterfell. However, that they're openly hinting in EW promotional materials at Tyrion betraying Dany means that that isn't his key storyline. Much like the much-hyped Starkbowl teased by cast and crew before Season 7, they wouldn't be saying anything about it if it were actually going to happen. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

Last season when I said that I believed that Tyrion was deliberately sabotaging Dany, people insisted no way. Now the show is promoting Tyrion's story as being divided loyalties. I still don't understand why Tyrion feels this loyalty to Cersei. Jaime, I get, but not Cersei. I am not sure the preview is indicating a betrayal though.

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Another option might be that he gives the "kiss of life" or whatever they want to call it to Dany/Jon etc. and sacrifices his last life.

I’d call that one unlikely given that Dondarrion is dead in the books and the character whose role he is in a sense placing seems a very unlikely candidate to be selflessly resurrecting people.

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Last season when I said that I believed that Tyrion was deliberately sabotaging Dany, people insisted no way. Now the show is promoting Tyrion's story as being divided loyalties. I still don't understand why Tyrion feels this loyalty to Cersei. Jaime, I get, but not Cersei. I am not sure the preview is indicating a betrayal though.

The Tyrion portion of the EW blurb talks about Tyrion reconsidering his support for Dany if she moves to overthrow his sister. They don't include any spoilers in the EW promotional material, so if they are openly talking about Tyrion possibly going back on his support for Dany, that means that the spoilery aspects of his plotline concern something entirely different. The trailer also included a sequence of shots with Dany looking disappointed, Tyrion looking up pleadingly, and Drogon unleashing fire. The last time a GOT trailer teased Tyrion's death by dragonfire, it was a blatant attempt to fake out the viewership with misleading editing. And then of course you have all the comments from cast members and Peter Dinklage about Tyrion's Lannister issues (Cogman's comments, Peter Dinklage's comments about how Tyrion is trying to figure out who he is and how Tyrion in S8 will face some things about himself that he didn't want to), possible turn to villainy (Peter Dinklage demurring during an interview when Tyrion is called a good guy), and death (the VFX guy's comments, Peter Dinklage's comments).

At this point, having seen all the promotional material so far, I'd say "Tyrion betrays Team Dany for Cersei and is executed for it" is one big misdirect on the part of the promo folks, much like Starkbowl for S7. I guess you could argue that Tyrion could still betray the Starks for the Lannisters and be executed as Friki says, but again, if that were the case, you'd think they'd be anxious to avoid anything hinting at Tyrion's disloyal nature and ultimate fate in promoting S8 regardless of whom it is he's betraying and the reasons for that betrayal. 

[Ellaria]

I have a slightly different interpretation of the “Tyrion betrayal” rumors/spoilers/etc.

I think that Tyrion from S7 is conflicted. He believes in Dany and supports her but is concerned about her smash and burn tendencies. He still hates Cersei but carries guilt/remorse about the death of Myrcella and Tommen and the decline of the Lannister legacy. Tyrion also enjoys proximity to power but may not realize how much it means to him.

I think it is entirely plausible for him to betray the Stark/Targaryen alliance. He will not do it out of misplaced loyalty for Cersei. He will do it because he thinks that he knows best. I have no idea of what he may do (not sure about Friki’s spoilers that he burns the residents of KL) or exactly why he does it.

Jaime is likely riding north to WF with the message that Cersei has not honored her last words at the dragon pit and that the Lannister bannerman are not coming. I am incredibly interested in Tyrion’s reaction to this info - and to Jaime’s promise to “fight for the living.” 

The promo materials may be pushing Tyrion’s potential for divided loyalties a bit too hard. However, I don’t think it precludes the fact that he could still betray the Starks or Dany or all of the “good guys” alliance. I am more interested in what his actions entail than why he does it.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Ellaria Sand

[Eyes High]

Interviews from the London press junket are trickling out. 

New from Sophie and Maisie (via Freefolk):

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Sophie’s character, Sansa Stark, had a few forced arranged marriages, and never had the chance to fall in love. She doesn’t think her character will find consummate love, but self-love is in the works. “Sansa doesn’t want to fall in love with anyone; I think she’s trying to fall in love with herself, and that’s the only love that counts.

“I think Arya’s asexual,” Maisie weighed in on her character, to Sophie’s agreeing.

“But with Sansa, I feel like she gets a little kinky,” Sophie added with a mischief.

Misdirection, or RIP Gendrya and any Sansa ship?

[Minneapple]

Also:

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The duo, whose characters reunited on-screen for the finale, had so much fun on set and couldn’t take themselves seriously.

Is this another spoiler? Does this mean Sansa and Arya are apart for awhile until the finale?

[LadyChaos]

So.... with the heavy, laid on like thick molasses, implicating that Tyrion betrays the Stargareryns .... Is it possible that it the 'leak' intentional from the network, through an incredible source they knew we would all believe?

It wouldn't be the first time that a show, or movie, has done that to keep the real SL a secret.

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Also:

Is this another spoiler? Does this mean Sansa and Arya are apart for awhile until the finale?

Maise and Sophie are friends in real life, so more than likely they are referencing that when they were finally filming together again, they were acting up on set.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

Also:

Is this another spoiler? Does this mean Sansa and Arya are apart for awhile until the finale?

I suspect that's just as LadyChaos interprets it -- however, I would say that Sansa and Arya being apart for some time during Season 8 is pretty much a given, since I'd expect the latter to be off fighting, running with wolves, what have you, which the former obviously won't be doing.

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

Maise and Sophie are friends in real life, so more than likely they are referencing that when they were finally filming together again, they were acting up on set.

I thought so too initially, but note that it says that their "characters reunite onscreen for the finale." I mean, yeah, I know they're friends and were goofing off and all, but that particular wording got me. Unless it's just the author not knowing exactly what she's writing. It's not exactly a well-written article.

[LadyChaos]

If Tyrion does not betray the Stargareyan alliance, Dany still is expecting another treason according to her prophecy.  Who do you think it will be?

[SeanC]

6 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

If Tyrion does not betray the Stargareyan alliance, Dany still is expecting another treason according to her prophecy.  Who do you think it will be?

The three treasons prophecy has never been brought up on the show.  That's most likely the sort of plot element that the show isn't bothering with.

[LadyChaos]

12 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The three treasons prophecy has never been brought up on the show.  That's most likely the sort of plot element that the show isn't bothering with.

True, but that doesn't mean it won't happen....

Also, in regards to why Sansa would go South.  If there ends up being a Counsel instead of a throne, since they were showing her to be LittleFinger's pupil, maybe she ends up sitting on the counsel in Jon's stead.   Who else do you think might end up on the counsel?

Edited March 13, 2019 by LadyChaos

[LadyChaos]

So, listening to a YT vid, and they point out that like as not Sansa is a Bolton now because her marriage was consummated.  Since Roose and Ramsey are all dead, that means that Sansa is now the Lady of the Dreadfort.

They also suggest that Sansa might have a big enough issue with Jon and Dany, and that the North might still back Jon even though he is not Ned Stark's son; that she'll pull a Lyssa.  She'll take the Vale army and ride back to the Vale and wait for the battle between  Cersei and Jon to kill each other.  I admit, I could see this.  She wants to be the Lady, the Queen, in charge.  To her, Cersei is the only war they need to worry about dispite whatever everyone tells her.  To be fair to her though, I think the problem is, that she has never seen the army of the dead so I think that to her, the army of the dead is more abstract than real.  To her Cersei is real.

Edited March 14, 2019 by LadyChaos

[Meredith Quill]

Why must there always be a Stark in Winterfell? That's one of the questions I'm hoping (against hope) gets answered.

[GraceK]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

They also suggest that Sansa might have a big enough issue with Jon and Dany, and that the North might still back Jon even though he is not Ned Stark's son; that she'll pull a Lyssa.  She'll take the Vale army and ride back to the Vale and wait for the battle between  Cersei and Jon to kill each other.  I admit, I could see this.  She wants to be the Lady, the Queen, in charge.  To her, Cersei is the only war they need to worry about dispite whatever everyone tells her.  To be fair to her though, I think the problem is, that she has never seen the army of the dead so I think that to her, the army of the dead is more abstract than real.  To her Cersei is real.

This paints Sansa in an extremely villainous light that I think does her an injustice, and I’m not even a big Sansa fan. She won’t betray her family. She’s also not an idiot. She’s seen Dragons, she’s welcomed her brother back already, we have seen as much in the trailer. And despite what anyone says, she is not in charge of the Vale army. They are there because Robin Arryn sent them to help her fight the Bolton’s, she can’t order them around like she’s their lord. She would have to go back to the Vale with them and ask her cousin Robyn for sanctuary, and would probably have to manipulate him with a marriage proposal or something to retain any power. The whole thing doesn’t make sense and it makes Sansa out to be Short sighted and villainous. Right now she’s on the winning side, or what seems to be the winning side, her sister is a powerful assassin, her brother Warden of the North and lovers with the Mother of Dragons,( who will turn out to be her cousin and heir to the throne)  she’s Lady of Winterfell, her brother is basically a God, she has a sworn shield in Brienne, she’s about as powerful and safe as she can be. Why would she betray her family and pull a illogical move like that? On an extremely thin chance that she might be Queen of everything? That doesn’t even make sense. The way it’s going, her natural endgame seems to be that she’s gonna end up Ruler of the north anyway just by existing and biding her time. Jon and Dany have a bigger destiny , whether it’s death or the iron throne  and Cersei is gonna die.

Edited March 14, 2019 by GraceK

[Minneapple]

12 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

They also suggest that Sansa might have a big enough issue with Jon and Dany, and that the North might still back Jon even though he is not Ned Stark's son; that she'll pull a Lyssa.  She'll take the Vale army and ride back to the Vale and wait for the battle between  Cersei and Jon to kill each other.  I admit, I could see this.  She wants to be the Lady, the Queen, in charge.  To her, Cersei is the only war they need to worry about dispite whatever everyone tells her.  To be fair to her though, I think the problem is, that she has never seen the army of the dead so I think that to her, the army of the dead is more abstract than real.  To her Cersei is real.

Okay so Sansa helped make Jon King in the North, insisted he's a Stark even though he's a bastard, helped him defeat Ramsey Bolton to take back Winterfell...only to chuck it all and run away so Jon and Cersei can kill each other? Because she wants to be in charge? That makes less than zero sense to me. Add to that that there is indication that Sansa and Arya are working together this season and I don't think Arya would be pleased by a move like that at all.

[LadyChaos]

I don't want to argue, and I don't want to spend 50 pages of thread going back and forth over this.....lets agree to disagree and move on. There are plenty of other things we can discuss. 

If we eliminate all 'known' leaks and spoilers since (since right now we can't rely on them)  What is the most likely scenario for the end of the season give that GRRM said that the ending would be bittersweet and likened it to LotR?

[Eyes High]

2 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

If we eliminate all 'known' leaks and spoilers since (since right now we can't rely on them)  What is the most likely scenario for the end of the season give that GRRM said that the ending would be bittersweet and likened it to LotR?

It's impossible to say what's "most likely," discounting leaks and spoilers. You ask 50 different ASOIAF/GOT fans what they think GRRM's "bittersweet" ending is going to be, and you'll get 50 different answers. "Bittersweet" doesn't really mean anything in of itself. I mean, the human experience is bittersweet. Pretty much everything that isn't entirely happy or entirely tragic is "bittersweet." And even if the surviving characters all live to the end of S8 and all get extremely happy endings, the ending would still be "bittersweet" because of everything they had lost and endured to get to that point.

Maybe "bittersweet" means that a few characters get horribly tragic endings while everyone else gets a very happy ending. Maybe "bittersweet" means that all the good characters survive but none of the romantic relationships make it to the finish line. Maybe "bittersweet" means that everyone survives but Westeros is almost completely devastated and reconstruction's going to be a bitch. And so on.

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

A number of posts that predominantly discussed Sansa & her past seasons actions/motives have been removed. Please take that stuff to her topic, this has been stated many, many times.

[Eyes High]

Some good news about runtimes! HBO has updated the runtime information for 8x03. It’s now going to run for 82 minutes instead of the originally listed 60. 

[SeanC]

5 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Some good news about runtimes! HBO has updated the runtime information for 8x03. It’s now going to run for 82 minutes instead of the originally listed 60. 

The original runtime struck me as a bit weird after all the press about how much time was spent filming the big fight.

[Eyes High]

46 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The original runtime struck me as a bit weird after all the press about how much time was spent filming the big fight.

Sophie also told James Hibberd during filming that the 8x03 episode was supposed to be 90 minutes, and while things change in the filming, they probably wouldn't have been 30 minutes off.

8x03 being 82 minutes long also aligns with the initial information about runtimes from a while ago (first two episodes 60 minutes, back four episodes 80 minutes). However, with 8x03 and 8x04 being 82 and 78 minutes (respectively), I wouldn't expect much deviation from 80 minutes for either episode.

8x05 and 8x06 being 80 minutes apiece are probably "placeholder" numbers that HBO will update when they have the exact runtimes.

Interestingly, if Season 8 winds up roughly adhering to that initial runtime list (60x2, 80x4), then Season 8 at 440 minutes will be exactly as long as Season 7 (although with six episodes instead of seven the episodes are longer on average for Season 8).

Considering that the battle sequences Sapochnik was studying for 8x03 were about 40-45 minutes and not 80 minutes, I really wonder if the whole of 8x03 is going to be nonstop action as promised. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Eyes High

[stagmania]

The season finale was reportedly just announced as 80 minutes, as well. 

[Missrayn]

Episode 3 finally will have plenty of time for the battle scene. I am please to see that Dany will have a significant role in the Tyrion will or will not betray someone season, stay tune! Cause I did looked at some popular theory or leak she was almost never mentionned except for the obvious he is now afraid she will go mad any minute. I wonder if his love will stay just subtext be clair.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Missrayn

[Eyes High]

A recent quote from a modernluxury.com interview with NCW for us all to chew on:

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With the Game of Thrones finale in sight, Coster-Waldau is reflective. “There’s a pride to being part of something that didn’t overstay its welcome.” He pauses and carefully chooses his words to describe the show’s ending so as to not violate any nondisclosure agreements. “The producers did an amazing job. It’s so tricky because the world is so vast. There are so many storylines. They found the balance between the beginning and the ending. There’s very few happy endings in that world. They did a great job in not being complete downers about it, but also being true to that world.”

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

They found the balance between the beginning and the ending. There’s very few happy endings in that world. They did a great job in not being complete downers about it, but also being true to that world.”

Kind of funny since that's what I've been thinking for awhile. I don't think anyone on GoT will get a happily ever after, it doesn't fit. I expect most characters will get bittersweet endings and a lot for characters are going to get killed.

[LadyChaos]

53 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Kind of funny since that's what I've been thinking for awhile. I don't think anyone on GoT will get a happily ever after, it doesn't fit. I expect most characters will get bittersweet endings and a lot for characters are going to get killed.

I mean, a bittersweet LotR type ending, isn't happy.  The only person that had a happy ending was Aragon, but they were all broken at the end.

[Morrigan2575]

26 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I mean, a bittersweet LotR type ending, isn't happy.  The only person that had a happy ending was Aragon, but they were all broken at the end.

I wouldn't classify LoTR as Bittersweet given that most of the characters got happy endings, Aragon/Arwen and Boromir/Eowyn get HEA. Eomer ends up as King (shown in movie) and eventually marries (in the books) and has a HEA. Sam marries Rosie, has kids and eventually (in the books) reunites with Frodo in the Undying Lands. Legolas eventually (after Aragon dies) goes over to the Undying Lands with his BFF Gimli (in the books). Yeah, the departure scene was sad but the movie ends on a very happy note (with Sam/Rosie/Children). 

I just don't think GoT will give HEA to any of the characters. They're not going to all end miserably but, not the happy ending some fans are expecting.  At least that's my opinion.

[bubble sparkly]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I wouldn't classify LoTR as Bittersweet given that most of the characters got happy endings, 

GRRM apparently thinks the LOTR ending is bittersweet though.  This quote of his gets bandied around a lot:

"I haven’t written the ending yet, so I don’t know, but no. That’s certainly not my intent. I’ve said before that the tone of the ending that I’m going for is bittersweet. I mean, it’s no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended ’Lord of the Rings.’ It ends with victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives. And the scouring of the Shire —brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: ’Why is this here? The story’s over?’ But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for. Whether I achieve it or not, that will be up to people like you and my readers to judge.”

If GRRM truly does think LOTR has a "bittersweet" ending, then it may be that GOT will follow a similar structure.

[LadyChaos]

38 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

GRRM apparently thinks the LOTR ending is bittersweet though.  This quote of his gets bandied around a lot:

"I haven’t written the ending yet, so I don’t know, but no. That’s certainly not my intent. I’ve said before that the tone of the ending that I’m going for is bittersweet. I mean, it’s no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended ’Lord of the Rings.’ It ends with victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives. And the scouring of the Shire —brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: ’Why is this here? The story’s over?’ But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for. Whether I achieve it or not, that will be up to people like you and my readers to judge.”

If GRRM truly does think LOTR has a "bittersweet" ending, then it may be that GOT will follow a similar structure.

In other words.... The NK and Cersei will die and almost all of the remaining characters will get happy endings but jon will probably disappear to somewhere he thinks no one will find him or are willing to venture too.  

Edited March 16, 2019 by LadyChaos

[LadyChaos]

You know, when Bran is telling someone that 'everything you have done till now, has led to you being here.' (paraphrasing)  ..... It could be to Jaime.  Jaime had a wierwood dream in the books when he was traveling with Brienne about being in the crypts of Winterfell and his father and Cersei telling him 'This is your place.' 

[anamika]

So Gwen at ECCC 2019 when the interviewer asks her about her relationship with Sansa and if it was as strong and trusty as her relationship with Catelyn.

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It's such an interesting question. What we have been seeing very subtly over the series is Brienne develop as a person. And so initially, it was someone in service of an idea greater than herself, in service to another person who she believes can bring something more or is more worthy and is more resourceful than she ever can be. And we have seen her develop very slowly over the seasons where she has more confidence, we see her strategic military sense develop, her greater confidence in her intellectual capabilities develop and also the confidence in her own strength. But she does deeply respect and adhere to the oath that she swore to Catelyn Stark to look after the Stark girls.

But I think she has a lot of belief in Sansa and I think that she really respects her and admires her because she can see that strength that her mother demonstrated in her and she can see her desire to rule and lead and her irrepressible ambition. So where she stands personally on that scale I think that there are various moments we have seen so far where you know there's a range of attitudes, or questioning or not being sure about temperance. But I think that she supports her because that's been her oath.

https://youtu.be/Rh-CDBJ4uzI

(Around the 19 min mark..)

So as per Gwen, while Brienne respects and admires Sansa for her ambition and desire to rule and Catelyn like qualities, there are differences propping up between them in terms of attitudes and temperance. But she is going to continue to support Sansa because of that oath to Catelyn. Ultimately Brienne is developing into her own person over the seasons rather than thinking that she should spend her life serving someone else as she did initially. 

I am getting the feeling that Brienne is not going to end the series in servitude to Sansa or Arya. Maybe there are scenes after the Dragonpit scene - if it was what Friki says it was - where Sansa and Arya  basically release her from Catelyn's oaths and Brienne goes her own way.  The oath is the only thing holding her to them.

Or she is there in the Dragonpit, possibly as a representative of some house/kingdom.

I get the sense that at the end, Brienne will  be confident enough to believe that she herself can enact the change that she wants to see rather than through the person she is serving.

Edited March 17, 2019 by anamika

[Morrigan2575]

14 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

GRRM apparently thinks the LOTR ending is bittersweet though.  This quote of his gets bandied around a lot:

I can honestly say I disagree with him. Obviously as the author his opinion carries more weight than my own (except with me 😀) but, I disagree that LoTR was Bittersweet. If anything i'd argue The Hobbit was Bittersweet while LoTR was Happy (well, happy-ish).

However, non of that matter since it doesn't change my opinion on how GoT is going to end. I just don't see them giving out Happy Endings to the main characters. I don't think John/Dany/Baby are going to live HEA. I think one or possibly both of the characters will die (more likely just 1). I don't know if Tyrion will betray the Starks, get killed in battle or live but, I don't expect him to get a happy ending either. 

That's not to say that I think these characters are going to end up in a miserable/depressing place that makes me wonder why I bothered? Just more they get something but, it also costs them something. 

Like I said before, this is just my opinion. I have no idea what's going to happen. I just think the final season of GoT is going to deliver a lot of death (some expected, others not) and, it's not going to give all/most of the main characters happy endings.

[Ellaria]

15 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I mean, a bittersweet LotR type ending, isn't happy.  The only person that had a happy ending was Aragon, but they were all broken at the end.

I think the important part of this statement is that they were broken at the end. Some may have found happiness/fulfillment other than Aragorn (Sam certainly) but they would never be the same people that they were before they began their journey. And that's how I envision the "end" for the surviving characters in GOT. All have experienced varying levels of hardship, loss and sacrifice. 

This may be an unpopular opinion but some (all?) of the survivors will have to try to create a "better world" (for a lack of a better term) based on their experiences. There have to be lessons learned. Whether or not they achieve any success in doing so is another story.

11 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

You know, when Bran is telling someone that 'everything you have done till now, has led to you being here.' (paraphrasing)  ..... It could be to Jaime.  Jaime had a wierwood dream in the books when he was traveling with Brienne about being in the crypts of Winterfell and his father and Cersei telling him 'This is your place.' 

i like the suggestion that it is Jaime. I am looking forward to the interaction between Jaime and Bran. 

5 hours ago, anamika said:

I get the sense that at the end, Brienne will  be confident enough to believe that she herself can enact the change that she wants to see rather than through the person she is serving.

Agree. I want Brienne to survive and be a force for change.

[Meredith Quill]

Bran says "To where you are now; home" - so it can't be Jaime he's speaking to. Imo it's either Jon or Dany (he could mean 'home' as in Westeros or Winterfell). Arya/Sansa fit too but they've been there with Bran for some time so it seems a lot less likely.

An improbable possibility but still a possibility; what if Ayra is running from wight Hodor?! That would be horrid. Why did you go there brain, why?!

[LadyChaos]

Do you all think that we will get another trailer before the show airs?

[Missrayn]

that someone believes a second trailer will be out the 28 or by the end of match. Will see, I guess.

As I like Dany it is unfortunate that I believe her dead very possible I mean so much white in the way she dress now make me think of a big sacrifice, and even the famous frikki(still not sure 100%) leak could point to her dead that the easily explication for the distinction between the stark and Dany. I mean any action against the Stark will be indirectly affecting her as long as she live at this point. 

[LadyChaos]

1 hour ago, Missrayn said:

that someone believes a second trailer will be out the 28 or by the end of match. Will see, I guess.

As I like Dany it is unfortunate that I believe her dead very possible I mean so much white in the way she dress now make me think of a big sacrifice, and even the famous frikki(still not sure 100%) leak could point to her dead that the easily explication for the distinction between the stark and Dany. I mean any action against the Stark will be indirectly affecting her as long as she live at this point. 

I love Dany too, but I honestly think she will be dead as well.  I also don't want to see her on the Iron thone, as Daario pointed out, she is a great conqueror but not a ruler.  I think she will set the baseline for for taking control of Westros, but that Jon will end up leading her armies and 'conquer' Westros.  I saw a post earlier that speculated that a counsel would replace the Iron throne, and I like this idea. Or that it might revert to the old ways, where each kingdom rules its own.

[Wouter]

47 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

 I saw a post earlier that speculated that a counsel would replace the Iron throne, and I like this idea. Or that it might revert to the old ways, where each kingdom rules its own.

I doubt that would be GRRM's idea of a good ending. The idea being that the creation of the 7K limited the number of conflicts (in spite of the wars with Dorne and later the various civil wars and rebellions) and stimulated the economy, and so generally should be considered a good thing. Take the generally pleasant relations between the Vale and the North now, versus the situation when Arryns and Starks were still in full power.

After an invasion by the WW's on top of an already devastating internal war, I think most of the individual regions would be happy to receive aid from other portions.

[Missrayn]

4 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

  I think she will set the baseline for for taking control of Westros, but that Jon will end up leading her armies and 'conquer' Westros.

Hmmm..I will hate if Dany end up be sideline for jon to have it all! I will be fine with Dany dying if she has a real role to play, not childbirth death bull... So, I think she will be dying fighting in the last battle probably Drogo will dying killing viserion too. 

[LadyChaos]

48 minutes ago, Missrayn said:

Hmmm..I will hate if Dany end up be sideline for jon to have it all! I will be fine with Dany dying if she has a real role to play, not childbirth death bull... So, I think she will be dying fighting in the last battle probably Drogo will dying killing viserion too. 

I would definitely rather her die in battle than in child birth. But I am also trying to be realistic, if Dany is to bare a child that I doubt enough time will pass for her to bare the child, recover, and return to battle. 

[Pestilentia]

Quote

Bran says "To where you are now; home" - so it can't be Jaime he's speaking to. Imo it's either Jon or Dany (he could mean 'home' as in Westeros or Winterfell). Arya/Sansa fit too but they've been there with Bran for some time so it seems a lot less likely.

Well, heck- given that we don't yet know the Night King's history or motivations Bran could even be speaking to him.

[Eyes High]

On 3/17/2019 at 10:36 AM, SilverStormm said:

Bran says "To where you are now; home" - so it can't be Jaime he's speaking to. Imo it's either Jon or Dany (he could mean 'home' as in Westeros or Winterfell). Arya/Sansa fit too but they've been there with Bran for some time so it seems a lot less likely.

It's Theon, I think. Winterfell is Theon's home, and the person Bran is addressing seems to be struggling with a lot of guilt, which Bran is assuaging by telling the person that everything they did brought the person where they belong. 

That 4chan leaker claimed they saw Theon wheeling Bran around at the Winterfell set. If Theon manages to spring Yara early on in S8, he may make it to Winterfell in time for this big 8x03 battle. If Theon is indeed going to die in S8 (and Alfie's absence from that 8x06 scene in Seville is not promising), then as an honourary Stark and someone dealing with a lot of guilt over his sins towards the Starks, I think it would be very fitting for him to die fighting side by side with the other Starks to protect Winterfell.

[Meredith Quill]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

It's Theon, I think. Winterfell is Theon's home, and the person Bran is addressing seems to be struggling with a lot of guilt, which Bran is assuaging by telling the person that everything they did brought the person where they belong. 

That 4chan leaker claimed they saw Theon wheeling Bran around at the Winterfell set. If Theon manages to spring Yara early on in S8, he may make it to Winterfell in time for this big 8x03 battle. If Theon is indeed going to die in S8 (and Alfie's absence from that 8x06 scene in Seville is not promising), then as an honourary Stark and someone dealing with a lot of guilt over his sins towards the Starks, I think it would be very fitting for him to die fighting side by side with the other Starks to protect Winterfell.

I like that. I'd like it to be Theon.

[ElizaD]

IMO Alfie is one of the show's best actors; I've felt that way ever since season 2 when he took a storyline that did nothing for me in the book and made it my favorite. The Theon/Jon talk is one of my all-time favorite GOT scenes, so the Theon/Bran speculation makes me very happy. I don't give a damn about Jaime's so-called redemption arc but I absolutely believe that Theon feels genuine remorse for what he chose to do and that he wants to help those  who've suffered because of him. Of the characters who seem very likely to die, I expect Theon will have the ending that I'll find the most emotional.

[Minneapple]

I think Bran is talking to Jon. They're likely going to have a Big Important Conversation about Jon's parentage and Jon will Angst and Brood over his Place In the World and maybe Bran will reassure him that he's a Stark and he's home in Winterfell and that's what matters.

[Happy Harpy]

On 3/17/2019 at 3:36 PM, SilverStormm said:

An improbable possibility but still a possibility; what if Ayra is running from wight Hodor?! That would be horrid. Why did you go there brain, why?!

I'm not sure that Arya would be running away from someone she loved and who was wightified, with that expression on her face. I'd expect more of a Meera-like reaction to a doomed loved one, especially with mercy killing being recurrent in her storyline; she used to think that "nothing can be worse than death" in S4, and the condition of wight could change her mind. If she were confronted to such a situation it would be imo with someone more significant to her than Hodor, whom she never shared screentime with or mentioned, IIRC. The most obvious candidate would be the Hound of course, it's been a big theory. I'm very wary of "foreshadowing" because those are often red herrings; here there's a twist in motivation (hate when she said the words in 3x09 vs mercy in S8) and it would also be an inversion of her not killing him in S4 because she didn't hate him anymore so it suspiciously looks like an arc.

For me, either she's running from something more terrifiying than one wight and anxious to get to safety, either she's anxious to complete some mission she isn't sure at all she'll be able to pull off. Or both.

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

If Theon manages to spring Yara early on in S8, he may make it to Winterfell in time for this big 8x03 battle.

Maybe he can kill off Euron early, people do expect him to last it would be surprising die die die hapless buffoon die. They warned that the jetpack/time jumps would be even bigger than in S7, something along the lines of "characters will be where they need to be".

Bran being less robotic this season might correlate to him facing the two people who hurt him the most and the most directly, Theon and Jaime. I'm looking forward to it.