Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

I seriously doubt Bran not being in the teaser has a simple 'ableist-aversion' reason. TPTB will have very carefully decided what they reveal in season 8 promos (with a fine tooth comb) and if it were important to the story symbolism for him to be included he would be included. So his omission is clearly for some other, as yet - hidden - plot related reason. That's the real mystery to be dissected here, WHY isn't Bran included? Perhaps because he becomes the king...The NIGHT king? 

I'm not a fan of that particular outcome either but I accept that it could happen and frankly, I find that more believable/palatable than the speculated Bran Stark, First of His Name, King of The Andals...titles, titles thing.

For me, the Jon, Sansa and Arya statues symbolise their fates if they don't win the great war. I'm not seeing it as foreshadowing but as symbolism of what's to come and what could happen. I think HBO is enjoying knowing they're freaking out much of the fandom with this stuff and knowing it'll cause so much hype. Troll level 10 HBO. 

[GrailKing]

25 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

I seriously doubt Bran not being in the teaser has a simple 'ableist-aversion' reason. TPTB will have very carefully decided what they reveal in season 8 promos (with a fine tooth comb) and if it were important to the story symbolism for him to be included he would be included. So his omission is clearly for some other, as yet - hidden - plot related reason. That's the real mystery to be dissected here, WHY isn't Bran included? Perhaps because he becomes the king...The NIGHT king? 

I'm not a fan of that particular outcome either but I accept that it could happen and frankly, I find that more believable/palatable than the speculated Bran Stark, First of His Name, King of The Andals...titles, titles thing.

For me, the Jon, Sansa and Arya statues symbolise their fates if they don't win the great war. I'm not seeing it as foreshadowing but as symbolism of what's to come and what could happen. I think HBO is enjoying knowing they're freaking out much of the fandom with this stuff and knowing it'll cause so much hype. Troll level 10 HBO. 

Maybe because he's marked and WF like the Wall is protected by spells, ( the NK couldn't go through, he had to go around it ), so Bran stays in the Godswood to fight his battle, and showing that could give to much info.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

TPTB will have very carefully decided what they reveal in season 8 promos (with a fine tooth comb) and if it were important to the story symbolism for him to be included he would be included.

Considering how little information promos like this have ever revealed (last season's was Jon, Dany and Cersei power-walking as snow fell 🙄) then isn't this the opposite? By not including Bran, they're revealing the spoilers they're trying so desperately to protect. There's no complicated symbolism here. They wanted Starks power-walking through the crypts badass-style. Bran didn't meet the cut. Ableist af.

[Meredith Quill]

11 minutes ago, ursula said:

Considering how little information promos like this have ever revealed (last season's was Jon, Dany and Cersei power-walking as snow fell 🙄) then isn't this the opposite? By not including Bran, they're revealing the spoilers they're trying so desperately to protect. There's no complicated symbolism here. They wanted Starks power-walking through the crypts badass-style. Bran didn't meet the cut. Ableist af.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I think it's far too simplistic personally. There were all kinds of symbolism going on in that teaser, this was part of that.

[SeanC]

Bran not being there may not necessarily be about the wheelchair so much as he’s very flatly not nearly as popular or prominent in the show compared to the other three — though the wheelchair may well have contributed to that in various ways.

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Bran not being there may not necessarily be about the wheelchair so much as he’s very flatly not nearly as popular or prominent in the show compared to the other three — though the wheelchair may well have contributed to that in various ways.

Wheelchair aside; I think many wondered  why not have the TER in it, maybe landing on Jon's shoulder, maybe at the statues zoom out transition to Bran looking at the tree.I think there were ways they could include him.

[Happy Harpy]

4 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

I seriously doubt Bran not being in the teaser has a simple 'ableist-aversion' reason. TPTB will have very carefully decided what they reveal in season 8 promos (with a fine tooth comb) and if it were important to the story symbolism for him to be included he would be included. So his omission is clearly for some other, as yet - hidden - plot related reason. That's the real mystery to be dissected here, WHY isn't Bran included? Perhaps because he becomes the king...The NIGHT king?

I agree that the teaser was made to not reveal anything significant. After all, it was the case with the Long Walk since at the end of S6 Jon, Dany, Cersei were already the king and queens. It didn't foreshadow anything either because as of 7x07 (or the end of 7x06) one of them wasn't on his Northern throne anymore. The only foreshadowing was, IIRC, the Wall in the WW's eye so it wasn't about the characters' journey. Imo, the equivalent would be the ice invading WF, foreshadowing its probable fall at the end of the AOTD.

As for Bran's absence, it could very well be that Bran doesn't matter at all and/or will stay Branbot. It could also be that they're pulling a "Now you see me" here; but then there are two options. One, he turns against his siblings or is the NK, although I personally don't subscribe to that theory. Two, it could be that Bran will somehow become Bran Stark again (that's my brand of tinfoil) and having him there would have had a certain number of people jump to the conclusion that he'll join the pack and not be surprised if he does.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[Eyes High]

We are, in fact, getting a trailer. 

[anamika]

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

Bran not being there may not necessarily be about the wheelchair so much as he’s very flatly not nearly as popular or prominent in the show compared to the other three — though the wheelchair may well have contributed to that in various ways.

This is probably the truth of it though Bran not being as popular is a result of D&D massively sidelining him and not giving him stuff to do. Sansa and Arya are given the cool shots and triumphant moments while crippled Bran is stuck in his wheelchair with monotonous exposition. There's a lot of interesting stuff they can do with Bran,  exploring his emotional conflicts as he slowly becomes this all powerful God like being - but as we see with Arya, D&D's characters are neatly put into boxes and Bran is just the 3ER. 

And finally they cant do much with Robo Bran. Jon, Sansa and Arya have their power walks, reach their statues and are horrified/scared that they have statues - cold winds blow and they turn around with swords drawn. Bran? Would have no reaction to any of those lines of dialogue, no reaction to the statues, would have no reaction to cold winds. He would be sitting there blank faced in his chair. So why even have him? Whats the point? 

The minute they turned him into robo Bran last season they erased him as a character. 

[WindyNights]

8 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

I seriously doubt Bran not being in the teaser has a simple 'ableist-aversion' reason. TPTB will have very carefully decided what they reveal in season 8 promos (with a fine tooth comb) and if it were important to the story symbolism for him to be included he would be included. So his omission is clearly for some other, as yet - hidden - plot related reason. That's the real mystery to be dissected here, WHY isn't Bran included? Perhaps because he becomes the king...The NIGHT king? 

I'm not a fan of that particular outcome either but I accept that it could happen and frankly, I find that more believable/palatable than the speculated Bran Stark, First of His Name, King of The Andals...titles, titles thing.

For me, the Jon, Sansa and Arya statues symbolise their fates if they don't win the great war. I'm not seeing it as foreshadowing but as symbolism of what's to come and what could happen. I think HBO is enjoying knowing they're freaking out much of the fandom with this stuff and knowing it'll cause so much hype. Troll level 10 HBO. 

Bran's final fate is to be the villain that's not in the books? Yeah, that's believable. 

People need to get more creative with Bran's endgame. 

We already have a villainous Bran in the books (Euron).

[Meredith Quill]

1 minute ago, WindyNights said:

Bran's final fate is to be the villain that's not in the books? Yeah, that's believable. 

People need to get more creative with Bran's endgame. 

We already have a villainous Bran in the books (Euron).

I don't seriously believe it myself tbh but I'd believe that before I'd believe he's endgame ruler; that's how dumb that outcome would be given his storyline thus far. I actually think his endgame is more likely to be going off somewhere remote doing more 'mysterious' three-eyed ravening or whatever, eh.

[WindyNights]

6 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

I don't seriously believe it myself tbh but I'd believe that before I'd believe he's endgame ruler; that's how dumb that outcome would be given his storyline thus far. I actually think his endgame is more likely to be going off somewhere remote doing more 'mysterious' three-eyed ravening or whatever, eh.

It's semi-believable in the books considering GRRM's proclivities as an author. 

 

It would just be a weird weird twist on the show.

[Minneapple]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

We are, in fact, getting a trailer. 

I maintain: Super Bowl Sunday. Make it a prop bet.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Minneapple

[driver18]

Bran wasn't in the teaser because the teaser was about the Starks and said himself that he is no longer Brandon Stark; he's the Three-Eyed Raven. It's really that simple. He's beyond being a Stark now. He's so much more.

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, driver18 said:

Bran wasn't in the teaser because the teaser was about the Starks and said himself that he is no longer Brandon Stark; he's the Three-Eyed Raven. It's really that simple. He's beyond being a Stark now. He's so much more.

Jon: "I'm not a Stark."

[Colorful Mess]

I think its about Stark acceptance. All of the quotes relate to Jon. He needs protection after the parentage reveal, and Bran might not play as big of a role in that as Sansa and Arya will. In fact Bran's reveal puts Jon in even more danger, hence the ominous turn at the end. I dont think it means Bran=Night King. 

[GrailKing]

12 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

I think its about Stark acceptance. All of the quotes relate to Jon. He needs protection after the parentage reveal, and Bran might not play as big of a role in that as Sansa and Arya will. In fact Bran's reveal puts Jon in even more danger, hence the ominous turn at the end. I dont think it means Bran=Night King. 

And the Starks banding together facing their enemies and facing their destiny.

I also think Sansa may recognize the reveal of Jon's heritage could be a danger for him, them and or Westeros, and she convinces the team to keep it secret to protect him and his possible child. Jon decides to stay a Snow or Sansa names him Jon Stark.

[Colorful Mess]

9 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

And the Starks banding together facing their enemies and facing their destiny.

 

But shouldnt Bran be there if that was the case? I think its more about Jon's parentage reveal and what is going to happen because of that.

[GrailKing]

28 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

But shouldnt Bran be there if that was the case? I think its more about Jon's parentage reveal and what is going to happen because of that.

I think Bran may not be there physically is because he was marked, and of course WCHR, but he's at the Tree. Do I think they could have represented him as a Raven yeah, but I think his fight is in the Godswood and he knows the secret already.

[GrailKing]

https://www.mirari.tv/Tapestry

[Minneapple]

3 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Jon: "I'm not a Stark."

But he is. Even if he's a Targaryen, he's still half-Stark. 

[Happy Harpy]

16 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I maintain: Super Bowl Sunday. Make it a prop bet.

From your keyboard to HBO promo monkey's ears.

[Eyes High]

17 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I maintain: Super Bowl Sunday. Make it a prop bet.

 

That seems way too early for me, and I haven't seen any big S8 promo deviations from the rough timing schedule they used for S6 and S7 promotion to suggest they're going to go off the schedule to that extent. I'd say the same as the last two years, seven(ish) weeks out from the premiere, so February 24th. or thereabouts. The premiere date I guessed turned out to be two weeks later than the actual premiere date, though, so hopefully I'm wrong about this, too!

Edited January 16, 2019 by Eyes High

[anamika]

5 hours ago, GrailKing said:

https://www.mirari.tv/Tapestry

Possible HBO Asia ad

The tapestry looks so much more beautiful than those horrible statues. Only Arya's statue looks halfway decent.

6 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

 He needs protection after the parentage reveal

Why does Jon need protection after parentage reveal? I doubt the Northerners are going to murder him because he is Lyanna Stark's son and not Ned Stark's son. In his mind, Jon was never a Stark. He never wanted to be KITN on the show - he only wants to protect the North and the rest of the realm. If the Northerners ask him to GTFO, I am sure he will be glad to. The more pressing case next season is the North needing protection, not Jon.

My interpretation regarding the teaser - The quotes are regarding the three people who defined Jon's life as a Stark. Lyanna, his birth mother, Catelyn who hated him because he was Ned's bastard and Ned who brought him up as his son. Jon pauses at both Lyanna and Ned's statues because he will have to deal with the truth next season, Sansa glances at Cat because she was her mother's daughter till the end of last season when it came to Jon and Arya gliding on ahead because she had no plot regarding Jon's status thus far on the show and she is probably not going to be too bothered about Jon's lineage next season. They reach the statues and are horrified as they realize they are all dead! Dun Dun Dun! The fog and cold starts coming up, the feather freezes and the Starks turn around swords drawn to face the WW. Meaning, Jon's lineage is ultimately going to mean shit when there's a bigger existential threat on the way.

Edited January 17, 2019 by anamika

[Colorful Mess]

3 minutes ago, anamika said:

Meaning, Jon's lineage is ultimately going to mean shit when there's a bigger existential threat on the way to WF.

Death is coming for everyrone from multiple places, including other people: "The White Walker army will notbe the only issue our characters will have to face In Season 8. They will also have to face each other." (David Nutter). The tapestry posted doesn't mention the White Walkers. And there is #forthethrone, which puts the throne front and center. I wonder why?

[anamika]

53 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Death is coming for everyrone from multiple places, including other people: "The White Walker army will notbe the only issue our characters will have to face In Season 8. They will also have to face each other." (David Nutter). The tapestry posted doesn't mention the White Walkers. And there is #forthethrone, which puts the throne front and center. I wonder why?

This is true, but I am not sure why Jon is getting singled out for protection here. With the Lannisters in town , everyone is going to be at each other's throats. And if the spoilers are true, then it's going to be Tyrion plotting against the Starks. If anyone needs to be on the look out, it's Sansa, Arya and Bran considering their arch enemies from book one, season one are around now. Jaime was still killing Lannister enemies last season and the only reason he's going North is to protect his unborn baby and the south from an undead army that he's now seen with his own eyes. And Tyrion may end up siding with him in any conflict with the Starks.

[Colorful Mess]

40 minutes ago, anamika said:

This is true, but I am not sure why Jon is getting singled out for protection here. With the Lannisters in town , everyone is going to be at each other's throats. And if the spoilers are true, then it's going to be Tyrion plotting against the Starks. If anyone needs to be on the look out, it's Sansa, Arya and Bran considering their arch enemies from book one, season one are around now. Jaime was still killing Lannister enemies last season and the only reason he's going North is to protect his unborn baby and the south from an undead army that he's now seen with his own eyes. And Tyrion may end up siding with him in any conflict with the Starks.

I guess its just this unique case, of a parentage reveal, why Jon is singled out and the protection idea from Lyanna being emphasized. GRRM has said he doesnt write about characters being protected by their destiny, so I would imagine his destiny (whatever it is) doesn't make him safe. 

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Possible HBO Asia ad

 

Yeah, I took it directly from the company website.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

This is true, but I am not sure why Jon is getting singled out for protection here.

I think after all is settled, I think being a Targ may still leave a bad taste for most people, I think that for him OR his child his Targ name may need to be kept under wraps.

Assuming Danny dies and or gets blamed for the damaged done ( rightfully or wrongly ) and Jon stays or is broken enough to leave, I think Sansa may suggest he keep his father a secret and he stays a Snow or Sansa makes him a Stark . If he leaves he ask Sansa to raise the child, I think she would and unlike Cat, she raise it as a Stark to protect it.

It's more a political protection over physical one.

He won't leave behind a bastard.

[driver18]

11 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Jon: "I'm not a Stark."

When Jon said "I'm not a Stark," he was referring to his bastardy. Bran was referring to his mystical powers as the Three-Eyed Raven. My goodness. Those are two very different things.

[GraceK]

19 minutes ago, driver18 said:

When Jon said "I'm not a Stark," he was referring to his bastardy. Bran was referring to his mystical powers as the Three-Eyed Raven. My goodness. Those are two very different things.

For real. Jon is a Stark. He is also a Targaryen. That’s the point. He’s the child of two mystical bloodlines. The fact he has a magical connection with a dire wolf , ( and in the books is also a warg like his siblings-cousins ) hammers home the fact that to the old gods, or whatever “ magical forces” that exist in this world, Jon is a freakin Stark . His culture, his upbringing, his family, everything about him is Stark. Finding out his father is actually Rhaegar doesn’t suddenly take that away from him. His mother is still Lyanna Stark and Ned’s Starks blood still flows through him. 

Bran on the other hand has made it very clear that he is something else now. Bran Stark is dead. He’s the three eyed raven now. Maybe Bran is still in there somewhere, but I think it was very symbolic that Summer died when Bran “ changed “. RoboBran has gone around telling everyone that he is no longer Bran Stark and can’t be Lord of Winterfell because hes gonna be a tree 😂 

Edited January 17, 2019 by GraceK

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Colorful Mess said:

I guess its just this unique case, of a parentage reveal, why Jon is singled out and the protection idea from Lyanna being emphasized. GRRM has said he doesnt write about characters being protected by their destiny, so I would imagine his destiny (whatever it is) doesn't make him safe. 

In my opinion, the Lyanna and Ned quotes are in there because it's fundamental to Jon's identity crisis next season. Lyanna asking Ned to protect baby Jon could make Jon try to understand why Ned lied to him all these years, made him grow up as an outcast motherless bastard subject to cat's anger, send him to the wall without telling him the truth etc. Jon is going to be angry at Ned and he is going to realize that his whole life has been a lie - and Ned and Lyanna are responsible for that.

So I don't think those quotes are about Jon needing to be protected next season. Rather about Jon's personal journey of reconciliation with who he is.

As per that EW article, David and Dan don't want to have a trailer and give away anything. This indicates that pretty much a lot of scenes are going to be spoilery.

What teasers they have given us are stuff that we already know will happen and which are probably not all that important in the grand scheme of things on the show:

- Sansa not being happy about knee bending was already mentioned in Hibberd's EW article and that's what we saw in the two teasers we got

- Jon's identity crisis was mentioned in the TV guide article and we saw something of that in this teaser with the quotes from Ned, Lyanna and Cat

So basically, they have given us nothing at all.

That trailer they are releasing sometime in March? That's where all the goodies will be. But I am sure it will be like microsecond cuts that we will have to freeze to even make out the blurred images of the characters.

[WindyNights]

Sophie Turner just confirmed that Sansa's hairstyle this season isn't influenced by anyone. Instead she's her own person now.

 

There goes that Daenerys/Sansa friendship based on similar hairstyles 

 

https://www.instyle.com/hair/sophie-turner-hair-color

[anamika]

14 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Sophie Turner just confirmed that Sansa's hairstyle this season isn't influenced by anyone. Instead she's her own person now.

 

There goes that Daenerys/Sansa friendship based on similar hairstyles 

 

https://www.instyle.com/hair/sophie-turner-hair-color

Quote

Then she goes back to Winterfell and returns to her mother’s hair. She created her own identity in season 7 and that kind of runs through to season 8. She’s chosen how she wants her hair to be, and she’s finally the leader and influencer instead of being influenced by everyone else.

I wonder who Sansa is 'influencing' next season.

That speculation was a bit of a stretch. Like Arya and Sansa, I can see Dany and Sansa professing respect for each other after their feud. But they are not going to be best buds mimicking hair styles. Dany already has a close girl pal in Missandei where they share hair braiding and discuss boyfriends.

And if Sansa was going to be close friends with someone, why not Brienne? She has been right there with Sansa since season 6, helping her, trying to advice her and protecting her. It would be nice for instance to see Sansa asking Brienne about Jaime. Or Brienne telling Sansa about Oathkeeper and Sansa telling her that she could keep it.

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, GraceK said:

RoboBran has gone around telling everyone that he is no longer Bran Stark and can’t be Lord of Winterfell because hes gonna be a tree 😂 

The 3ER told him "you won't be an old man in a tree", IIRC, that's why I'm still chalking up that option. Well, maybe another kind of plant then LOL. 

[screamin]

3 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

The 3ER told him "you won't be an old man in a tree", IIRC, that's why I'm still chalking up that option. Well, maybe another kind of plant then LOL. 

Maybe it just means he'll die as a young man in a tree.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, screamin said:

Maybe it just means he'll die as a young man in a tree.

Bran is present at Tyrion’s trial according to Friki, and even if Friki is wrong, Isaac participated in whatever 8x06 scene was filmed, so unless it’s a Force ghost situation, Bran survives the end of the series.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Eyes High

[Minneapple]

9 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Sophie Turner just confirmed that Sansa's hairstyle this season isn't influenced by anyone. Instead she's her own person now.

 

There goes that Daenerys/Sansa friendship based on similar hairstyles 

 

https://www.instyle.com/hair/sophie-turner-hair-color

Good. I'm glad Sansa is her own person now instead of copying everyone else. I don't need to see Dany braiding her hair. I don't particularly care if they get along, or if they hate each other. I don't think it says anything about either of them if they don't like each other, or if they're BFFs or whatever.

[Happy Harpy]

8 hours ago, screamin said:

Maybe it just means he'll die as a young man in a tree.

I took it as a debunking of the tree Bran theory, from part of D&D. As @Eyes High said, filming info seems to imply that Bran is going to make it.

I find it interesting that both Bran and Jon "died" in different ways, and are both still alive. I really want something to come out of Bran's arc. He was the first main character that GRRM envisioned, after all. He's been burdened with such responsibilities even before he became the 3ER (last scene in 2x08). He sent Rickon away to protect him, and Rickon died because he was betrayed by people Bran thought could be trusted. There's a lot of potential and I wish it was exploited. 

[WindyNights]

4 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

I took it as a debunking of the tree Bran theory, from part of D&D. As @Eyes High said, filming info seems to imply that Bran is going to make it.

I find it interesting that both Bran and Jon "died" in different ways, and are both still alive. I really want something to come out of Bran's arc. He was the first main character that GRRM envisioned, after all. He's been burdened with such responsibilities even before he became the 3ER (last scene in 2x08). He sent Rickon away to protect him, and Rickon died because he was betrayed by people Bran thought could be trusted. There's a lot of potential and I wish it was exploited. 

Bran them all.

 

But yeah, it'll be exploited more in the books.

The problem with Bran is that he's an extremely introspective character and half his character revolves around him being crippled and the other half revolves around being a little kid who believes in fairy tales.  

Like Bran's other primary characteristic is that he doesn't want to be Bran so he tries to escape into being others like Summer or Hodor. 

So once you lean away from the youth and escapist elements of the character, you don't actually have a character anymore. Bran stopped being an actual character by season 3 once Isaac hit puberty. And ever since then, they've been reducing his screentime because the show isn't interested in a Bran that's not young.

They probably should've cast for a book age Bran in this case or have Rickon's actor play Bran.

[Tallulah7606]

Might be slightly off the topic that’s currently ongoing, but I’d like to add that I hope Tormund survives! I’m still holding out hope for him and Brienne 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Tallulah7606

[WindyNights]

5 hours ago, Tallulah7606 said:

Might be slightly off the topic that’s currently ongoing, but I’d like to add that I hope Tormund survives! I’m still holding out hope for him and Brienne 

It won't happen. Brienne doesn't like him and the actress makes it clear that Brienne doesn't like Tormund.

 

Tormund x Brienne is just a funny joke to the story  

[Brn2bwild]

52 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

It won't happen. Brienne doesn't like him and the actress makes it clear that Brienne doesn't like Tormund.

 

Tormund x Brienne is just a funny joke to the story  

On a different show, the guy pursuing the girl who has already made it clear she is not interested would be treated as creepy.  But for some reason, this show (and a lot of fans) treat it as cute.

[Happy Harpy]

1 minute ago, Brn2bwild said:

On a different show, the guy pursuing the girl who has already made it clear she is not interested would be treated as creepy.  But for some reason, this show (and a lot of fans) treat it as cute.

In universe, though, it didn't go farther than delusional Tormund's unrequited lust being played for laughs. He didn't actively pursue Brienne, he didn't even talk to her directly. Brienne clearly conveyed she wasn't interested/ she was repulsed and even more importantly, no character tried to convince her otherwise. She didn't have to stand Tormund's stares once he left for Eastwatch in 7x01. So no major line was crossed for me, at least so far.

However, I hope it stops here because the gag is wearing thin, because it's one thing to have a crush and another to impose it onto someone who doesn't want you, and because Tormund is a good character who deserves better than being reduced to a creep obsessing over a woman he doesn't know at all, out of a Xena Warrior Princess fetish. Tormund got that Ygritte loved Jon so he's perceptive, which means he got that Brienne doesn't want him, which means he should leave her alone now. I hope the AOTD invasion will bring back the serious side of him.

BTW, I can't decide if he dies or not. He should be all but marked for death, but OTOH he's the only Wildling with a name and a personality left, so he should survive. Mmh.

[whateverdgaf]

I can imagine some sort of conclusion to Tormund's crush, probably something to do with Jaime seeing as he's up North next season. But seeing as the writers have had two seasons to develop the 'relationship' and instead decided to keep repeating the joke, it's unlikely they are going to try and present Tormund as a credible love interest in the final season with everything else going on. Not when they had two seasons to show Tormund's crush as anything other than a joke. It's very telling that the one time Tormund had a conversation with Brienne, it was cut just to show Brienne walking way in disgust. Have you heard Gwen's commentary of that scene? She literally goes 'ugh' the moment she sees him. It's hilarious. 

My ideal scenario is Jaime and Tormund getting into a fight, with Brienne coming along and breaking it up, only for Tormund to insult Jaime and Brienne becoming the one to defend Jaime's honour. I do think a moment of levity, a punchline to Tormund's crush is likely. But after that they shouls wholly focus on the relationships that truly matter to the characters, Brienne and Jaime and Pod and the Stark girls, and with Tormund and Jon and the other Freefolk. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by whateverdgaf

[Happy Harpy]

16 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

 My ideal scenario is Jaime and Tormund getting into a fight, with Brienne coming along and breaking it up, only for Tormund to insult Jaime and Brienne becoming the one to defend Jaime's honour. I do think a moment of levity, a punchline to Tormund's crush is likely. A good moment of levity amidst all the tension. 

I wholeheartedly agree on the beginning of your post, but I wouldn't like Tormund to have the bad role in order to prop Jaime or the Brienne/Jaime bond, which is how this scenario sounds like to me. Imo, it would be out of character for Tormund, since he doesn't give a shit about "honor" as it's understood South of the Wall. It's a guy who proudly states he's alive because he's good at killing people, and brags about fucking a bear, so I don't see how he would care to insult Jaime about anything he did. Still imo, the bond between Jaime and Brienne doesn't need that either. Tormund is nothing to her but "random guy with a crush on her".

Now, Brienne might have to defend Jaime against people who deeply matter to her, Catelyn's children. This would have much more weight for me and I'd love to see it.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[GraceK]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

Now, Brienne might have to defend Jaime against people who deeply matter to her, Catelyn's children. This would have much more weight for me and I'd love to see it.

This. Jaimes walking into an unknown situation. He’s unaware of Bran and Aryas survival at this point . He’s tried to murder Bran once and Arya already has murdered the Freys. Sansa has no soft feelings for him. That will be interesting conflict , especially when it comes to where Brienne stands. She’s really the only one who has seen the good in him .

[anamika]

2 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

On a different show, the guy pursuing the girl who has already made it clear she is not interested would be treated as creepy.  But for some reason, this show (and a lot of fans) treat it as cute.

Which show treats it as creepy? Most of the shows on the CW for teen girls has the evil, snarky hot guy chasing after an unwilling girl who then falls in love with him. The guy can do any number of unsavory stuff, but as long as he is hot and witty, all those things will be overlooked and he will be shipped with the girl. Hell, Dany/Drogo is very popular despite Drogo literally raping Dany - because Jason Momoa is hot. And I personally don't think Jaime/Brienne is anything special considering how verbally abusive Jaime was to Brienne while she fell in love with him. Brienne deserves better.

So folks liking Tormund/Brienne is not such a big deal - and it's mostly treated as a fun joke on the show. Hannah Murray said that along with the Sansa/Tyrion ship, she also liked Tormund/Brienne and Jaime/Brienne.

HBO Nordic's wishlist for season 8!

https://imgur.com/jOnLsWM

[Eyes High]

The whole Tormund/Brienne controversy makes no sense to me.

Brienne's clearly uninterested and the writing seems to respect her lack of interest rather than implying she should feel differently or she isn't giving Tormund a fair shake. 

Tormund isn't presented as a legitimate romantic choice, with his sexual proclivities, whether it's fucking bears or hitting on Sandor, being a subject of humour. (I’m not sure why the writers seem to find bisexuality so hilarious, but that’s beside the point.)

The whole Tormund/Brienne thing is played for laughs, both Tormund's gleeful interest and Brienne's obvious repulsion.

NCW and Gwendoline's enthusiasm over Season 8 probably means we're going to get some kind of Jaime/Brienne shippy goodness.

I'm not concerned in the slightest, and I'm usually the first and loudest when it comes to complaining about problematic relationship shit in the show.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, GraceK said:

This. Jaimes walking into an unknown situation. He’s unaware of Bran and Aryas survival at this point . He’s tried to murder Bran once and Arya already has murdered the Freys. Sansa has no soft feelings for him. That will be interesting conflict , especially when it comes to where Brienne stands. She’s really the only one who has seen the good in him .

Nothing's worst than being unable to protect the ones you love- Brienne of Tarth