Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[GrailKing]

Linked from Reddit:

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

Linked from Reddit:

 

At least they chose her all-time best costume for the statue.

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

At least they chose her all-time best costume for the statue.

Be honest, I like her Raven one best, followed by the flayed man / Tully fish. this one was # 3.

ETA: but most certainly let people know where she stood.

Edited December 28, 2018 by GrailKing

[WindyNights]

14 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Maybe GRRM doesn't write about Daenerys breaking the wheel because, a huge very wild guess, he hasn't gotten to the part where she sails for Westeros yet? (If he ever gets there). Also, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution etc. say hi. Serfdom is a form of slavery.  Westeros is far from being a social justice winner so there's plenty to be revolutionary about. I'd even say that being a wight is the ultimate form of slavery so Dany will have her hands full.

It's difficult to say for now what the purpose of the succession talk was, personally I wouldn't dare to be peremptory about it. Because if Dany dies and Jon takes the throne, this discussion is actually pointless: Jon doesn't need to inherit the throne from her. It could foreshadow the reveal of Jon's parentage. The goal could have been to stress the stakes of Dany going to rescue the expedition, giving more weight to Tyrion's POV (even for the audience since Jon, the other heir, was in mortal danger). It could have been to deepen the rift between Dany and Tyrion, it could have allowed Tyrion to make a deal with Cersei and promise that her spawn would be named heir, in other words it could have paved the way for Tyrion's betrayal in S8. At the time of the Tyrion/Dany talk, they both assumed that there was no other Targaryen and that Dany couldn't have children. The first notion will be disproved, probably as early as in 8x01 or 8x02. The second will very probably be, too. If Tyrion made plans, they're for sure going to be disrupted.

But even stuff like that was built up prior to her speech in the show. 

You think Daenrys is going to end feudalism? That's.....probably impossible.

That's a gradual thing not something you can do at a whim. The French Revolution and Russian Revolution transitioned a monarchy into a republic because they had the necessary ingredients for it. You need to build the people up and educate them to get there. 

You could definitely say that Daenrys is breaking chains by beating the Others but....that's not a societal rework of Westeros which is what the show is promising.

The succession talk is about Daenerys needing an heir to continue her works if she dies because if she dies then it was all for naught.

So say Daenerys dies and Jon hasn't revealed his parentage yet because he wanted her to rule but Jon knows what she wanted to do. 

All he has to do is reveal his true parentage and he becomes king to continue her work. There ya go. Daeneys then has an heir to inherit the throne from her.

[Smad]

3 hours ago, GrailKing said:

 

If it wasn't for the outfit I wouldn't know that's even Sansa. Her face is terribly rendered.

[GrailKing]

It's the NOSE.

[Happy Harpy]

8 hours ago, WindyNights said:

You think Daenrys is going to end feudalism?

No, that's not what I said. You asserted that "revolutionary" (your words) Dany has no one to free in Westeros because there is no slavery, I pointed out that serfdom was a form of slavery and that two real big world revolutions happened against it. Again, I have no crystal ball  and I don't pretend I have one.

I do think that a change will come after the War for the Dawn. Great wars always bring great changes, and depending on who's steering the boat it can be "great" in every meaning of the word. I don't think that Westeros is headed for democracy, but a proto-constitutional monarchy, why not. Post-war isn't going to be a picnic so hopefully, those steering the boat will have their hearts in the right place, have some ruling experience, be able to win over the people, be able to see the big picture, and be able to turn the page (no blaming children for the sins of their father, no reviving old squabbles between Houses). Since Jon and Dany have those qualities, especially together, they're the leaders I wish on Westeros. I have no idea if GRRM and D&D think that Westeros deserves them.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[bubble sparkly]

21 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

That's pretty much how I think that conflict could roughly go but I do believe it will end with them still together and deciding to rule as equals if they survive.And I also feel like it will be solved by ep 3 or 4 tbh.

I agree.  Given Jon, Dany and co will arrive at Winterfell in ep 1, and we know that ep 3 is mainly a battle ep with the Winterfell battle, I suspect the battle is going end up putting to bed a lot of conflicts because everyone will realise they have to let things go and work together to defeat the dead blah blah blah.  I'm tipping most of the conflicts between the "good guys" to be resolved by ep 4.

In ep 1 and 2 we will likely have Jon dealing with the paternity fallout (leading to some kind of J/D tension whether it's the familial relationship or Jon being the heir, or both), possibly Sam and Dany having issues because she burned his idiot family, Jaimie reuniting with the Starks and having his Bran misdeeds made public, maybe Jorah dealing with the Northerners calling for his head and Lady Mormont wanting to kick his ass, the Northern Lords being their usual xenophobic selves and hating on Dany, and Theon dealing with the other Starks and the Northerners etc.

I would not be at all shocked if Jaime saves a Stark during the battle (probably Bran if they want to bring things back full circle), and Dany impresses the Northerners with her bravery during the battle and suffers a non life threatening injury (bonus points if she discovers she is pregnant after the battle, just in time for a reconciliation with Jon).  A few non-major players will probably die - Pod seems certain, I'd guess one Northern dude will bite it, and maybe Tormund.  Then the survivors band together and put differences aside to fight Cersei and the NK, probably after an inspiring speech from Jon.  Most of these conflicts will probably end up being disposed of as easily as the "massive" Jon/Sansa conflict that was talked up in s7 lol.

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

A few non-major players will probably die - Pod seems certain, I'd guess one Northern dude will bite it, and maybe Tormund. 

Jorah seems like the most obvious big-ticket casualty at the Battle of Winterfell, to me (if I recall correctly Glen was seen in Seville, but isn't known to have actually filmed anything).

I feel bad for anybody whose character dies in episode 3 because that'll be just short of the cutoff for the SAG ensemble award, which the show will be taking one last run at, and may finally win in its final season.

Edited December 28, 2018 by SeanC

[anamika]

From DutchArya on FF

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/aaeoai/s8_extra/

Extra filmed for two months on GOT and was very excited about interacting with Kit Harington and Maisie Williams. Did not meet Emilia.

Looks like Jaime makes it to KL. Or Arya is wearing his face. Arya, Hound, Jaime Vs Cersei, Mountain?

I wonder if they did any WF filming in May-June-July, considering that Bella Ramsay filmed in June with Emilia, Kit, Isaac, John Bradley and maybe Maisie....I am not able to see Lyanna Mormont having scenes in KL battle. Nutter finished by April and I think Sapochnik was filming KL stuff in June. John Bradley mentioned how they filmed with 2 or even 3 units and D&D were hanging around then in Belfast. Possible that Bella Ramsay's stuff is for either episode 3 North stuff or episode 6 North stuff.

Edited December 30, 2018 by anamika

[GrailKing]

I asked that person some stuff on private too and he just told me the pier scene they shot in Dubrovnik was after the war and had Bran and Sansa talking. When I asked for more stuff, they deleted :(

(praised -Be _the _Fruit )

Edited December 29, 2018 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

[GrailKing]

http://www.averagesocialite.com/2017/11/game-of-thrones-season-8-final-season.html

GAME OF THRONES SEASON 8 (FINAL SEASON) PREMIERE, TBA

Monday, March 25, 2019

Affair: Game of Thrones Season 8 (Final Season) Premiere

 

When: TBA/2019

 

Hot Spot: TBA

 

Deets: The final season of the HBO television series closely follows the multiple story lines of the A Song of Ice and Fire novel series, whose author, George R.R. Martin, said that the show's pilot script was very faithful to his work. 

As confirmed by show runners David Benioff and D. B. Weiss, Game of Thrones Season 8 will feature just six episodes. Though it is likely that each episode will be a feature-length, so anything from 60 mins to 120 minutes.

 

Who You May Spot: Emilia Clarke, Peter Dinklage, David Benioff, George R. R. Martin, Nathalie Emmanuel, Gwendoline Christie, Jerome Flynn, Iwan Rhoen, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Liam Cunningham, Sophie Turner, Kit Harington, Alfie Allen, Dean-Charles Chapman, Hannah Murray, Finn Jones

Hint For The Average Socialite: This event is strictly invite only.

Edited December 30, 2018 by GrailKing

[anamika]

I was bored and looked up the IMDB profile for episode 6, season 8.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6027920/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ql_dt_1

And it mentions a Lisa Hernandez, who was the "makeup artist crowd spain unit" or "crowd dailies, Wolf Unit Spain". Someone who is  in charge of crowd dailies means - "A daily is employed on an adhoc basis, usually when there are crowd scenes and, therefore, a lot of background artistes to make-up and maintain. A daily would be organized by the Crowd Supervisor." Currently, Lisa Hernandez does not show up on the cast and crew credits for the rest of season 8.  Only for 8.06. Could imply that there are more extras involved than the two soldiers guarding Tyrion that Friki mentioned.

It could mean that there was a crowd/extras/soldiers assembled for the Dragonpit scene in Spain. It sort of aligns with what BsB says was filmed there and her repeatedly reminding everyone that Italica is a huge location and includes an amphitheater that was also closed from May 3rd.

Friki also insists that the trial is because Tyrion betrays the Starks and not Dany - but the soldiers guarding Tyrion are Unsullied led by Greyworm. So if Jon/Dany are dead or gone why are the Unsullied sticking around at a trial set up by the Starks for betrayal against them - The Unsullied owe the Starks nothing. Greyworm is only there for Dany. If Dany goes, he goes. So if this is a Stark trial, shouldn't the soldiers there be Northerner soldiers?

I also notice that there is a "visual effects supervisor: Reykjavik IO" in 8.3 meaning we are getting some Iceland effects probably for the WF battle or Bran is seeing some vision North of the wall or something.

Edited December 30, 2018 by anamika

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Friki also insists that the trial is because Tyrion betrays the Starks and not Dany - but the soldiers guarding Tyrion are Unsullied led by Greyworm. So if Jon/Dany are dead or gone why are the Unsullied sticking around at a trial set up by the Starks for betrayal against them - The Unsullied owe the Starks nothing. Greyworm is only there for Dany. If Dany goes, he goes. So if this is a Stark trial, shouldn't the soldiers there be Northerner soldiers?

If Tyrion is betraying the Starks, doesn't it mean that he is also betraying Dany by extension because I imagine Jon would be lumped in with the Starks, wouldn't he?

[MrsR]

Gendry is important because he is The Smith. As in: Father, Mother, Maiden, Warrior, Crone, SMITH, Stranger.

 

There are representatives of each of these in the Alliance. Can't be a coincidence.

 

The reveal of Jon being the rightful heir gives us the opportunity to see Dany, bend the knee. Tell me seeing that happen wouldn't make you choke up.  

[SimoneS]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

Friki also insists that the trial is because Tyrion betrays the Starks and not Dany - but the soldiers guarding Tyrion are Unsullied led by Greyworm. So if Jon/Dany are dead or gone why are the Unsullied sticking around at a trial set up by the Starks for betrayal against them - The Unsullied owe the Starks nothing. Greyworm is only there for Dany. If Dany goes, he goes. So if this is a Stark trial, shouldn't the soldiers there be Northerner soldiers?

I think that if the Unsullied are still in KL after the war, then Dany must be alive. Another possibility is that she asked the Unsullied and the Dothraki to swear allegiance to Jon, but I think that is a less likely scenario.

[Greta]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I think that if the Unsullied are still in KL after the war, then Dany must be alive. Another possibility is that she asked the Unsullied and the Dothraki to swear allegiance to Jon, but I think that is a less likely scenario.

Not necessarily. If Dany is dead, the Unsullied don't really have a leader to follow or a home to go back to (or really, any means of getting to Essos en masse without assistance from whoever is in power).  Maybe some of them make their own decisions about who to follow.  That's the point of being free, isn't it?

[anamika]

7 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

If Tyrion is betraying the Starks, doesn't it mean that he is also betraying Dany by extension because I imagine Jon would be lumped in with the Starks, wouldn't he?

But Friki seems to be making a clear distinction here - Tyrion betrays the Starks, not Dany. It's not 'Tyrion betrays the good guys' either. It's the Starks. When a poster told him that he stated that Tyrion betrays Dany, he got a bit heated saying that he has never said this.  I think Jon/Dany are the Targs and if Tyrion's betrayal was against them, it would not be framed as a betrayal against the Starks.

3 hours ago, Greta said:

Not necessarily. If Dany is dead, the Unsullied don't really have a leader to follow or a home to go back to (or really, any means of getting to Essos en masse without assistance from whoever is in power).  Maybe some of them make their own decisions about who to follow.  That's the point of being free, isn't it?

The Unsullied don't need a leader all the time to follow. They are following Dany and helping her because she freed them and they think she would make a great queen. With her dead, I think they would go back to Essos which is now free from slavery and the slave masters rather than stay in a Westeros that hates them and sees them as foreigners. Maybe some of them stay as sellswords. But Greyworm is staying out of his loyalty for Dany. I don't see him switching sides so easily. If Dany/Missandei die, he is going back to Essos.

And again, if this is a scenario of  King Bran and Stark sisters ruling or Starks heading a council or Starks holding a trial for Tyrion for crimes that include his betrayal against Starks why have unsullied soldiers - they could have Northerners or the Vale army or Iron Born guarding Tyrion. Why Greyworm, who is Dany's man?

I was also apparently wrong regarding the crowd part. Checking back on Friki's posts, there was a crowd. As per Friki, there are around 30-40 unsullied soldiers guarding Tyrion. 40? Is Tyrion the hulk! Even Dany did not have this many soldiers in her entourage last season at the dragonpit. And as per Friki, these guys were training for an action scene and had their hair cut off before being used to just guard Tyrion at his trial. Weird stuff.

[bubble sparkly]

So, do we think Friki's source is supposed to be an extra/double, or just some Spain rando who may have found a nice position to watch some of the filming?  It seems a bit weird to me because the source clearly only heard minimal dialogue and apparently didn't have access to a script, as evidenced by the fact that Tyrion's exact crimes are unknown, the King/Queen/ruling situation in unknown and Friki doesn't know whether J/D are alive or dead etc.  Yet, apparently the source could hear at least one line of Tyrion's dialogue, the alleged "they deserved it" bit. I would have thought an extra from this alleged trial would have been able to give way more dialogue info than one measly little line.

I swear at this point I'm almost more interested in the spoiler battle between BSB and Friki than I am in the actual GOT ending lol.

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

So, do we think Friki's source is supposed to be an extra/double, or just some Spain rando who may have found a nice position to watch some of the filming?  It seems a bit weird to me because the source clearly only heard minimal dialogue and apparently didn't have access to a script, as evidenced by the fact that Tyrion's exact crimes are unknown, the King/Queen/ruling situation in unknown and Friki doesn't know whether J/D are alive or dead etc.  Yet, apparently the source could hear at least one line of Tyrion's dialogue, the alleged "they deserved it" bit. I would have thought an extra from this alleged trial would have been able to give way more dialogue info than one measly little line.

I swear at this point I'm almost more interested in the spoiler battle between BSB and Friki than I am in the actual GOT ending lol.

It seems that BSB got her info from doubles, it was at least heavily implied (didn't she have a picture from inside a trailer?). Friki's source would be imo someone on set, who was able to snap a couple of pictures and eavesdrop snippets of dialogue, which would explain both Friki's absolute certainty and the omissions; but someone who wasn't there for the entire filming of a scene, and probably even present for only one or two scenes (Tyrion's arrival at the DP, Tyrion saying "they deserve it"). It could go from an extra to someone from the cleaning crew, imo.

[nikma]

Fandom is dead right now. FF, WOTW, forums,... Everything is in a sleep mode. If this wasn't the last season, the show's popularity would suffer a lot. 

[screamin]

14 hours ago, anamika said:

But Friki seems to be making a clear distinction here - Tyrion betrays the Starks, not Dany. It's not 'Tyrion betrays the good guys' either. It's the Starks. When a poster told him that he stated that Tyrion betrays Dany, he got a bit heated saying that he has never said this.  I think Jon/Dany are the Targs and if Tyrion's betrayal was against them, it would not be framed as a betrayal against the Starks.

The Unsullied don't need a leader all the time to follow. They are following Dany and helping her because she freed them and they think she would make a great queen. With her dead, I think they would go back to Essos which is now free from slavery and the slave masters rather than stay in a Westeros that hates them and sees them as foreigners. Maybe some of them stay as sellswords. But Greyworm is staying out of his loyalty for Dany. I don't see him switching sides so easily. If Dany/Missandei die, he is going back to Essos.

And again, if this is a scenario of  King Bran and Stark sisters ruling or Starks heading a council or Starks holding a trial for Tyrion for crimes that include his betrayal against Starks why have unsullied soldiers - they could have Northerners or the Vale army or Iron Born guarding Tyrion. Why Greyworm, who is Dany's man?

I was also apparently wrong regarding the crowd part. Checking back on Friki's posts, there was a crowd. As per Friki, there are around 30-40 unsullied soldiers guarding Tyrion. 40? Is Tyrion the hulk! Even Dany did not have this many soldiers in her entourage last season at the dragonpit. And as per Friki, these guys were training for an action scene and had their hair cut off before being used to just guard Tyrion at his trial. Weird stuff.

I think that even if Jon will be revealed as a Targaryen, the Starks would take Tyrion engineering Jon's death so that Dany (his preferred candidate) could keep the throne as a betrayal of themselves. They wouldn't just shrug and say, "Well, Jon was just a Targaryen, not a Stark, so why should we care?"

Maybe the crowd of Unsullied at the trial is because the trial may take place in a drumhead court just after a battle. The presence of a surrounding army to secure the perimeter would be natural then.

[SeanC]

48 minutes ago, nikma said:

Fandom is dead right now. FF, WOTW, forums,... Everything is in a sleep mode. If this wasn't the last season, the show's popularity would suffer a lot. 

Forums, etc. have always been a minuscule percentage of the people who watch the show.  Most people will only tune in once the advertising for the new season kicks into high gear.

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

Fandom is dead right now. FF, WOTW, forums,... Everything is in a sleep mode. If this wasn't the last season, the show's popularity would suffer a lot. 

Comcast said Game of Thrones was the most-watched show on its on-demand platform in 2018.

[nikma]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

Comcast said Game of Thrones was the most-watched show on its on-demand platform in 2018.

Because the last season is coming. If we had 2 years between every season since S1 the show wouldn't be this popular. You need momentum for popularity.

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Forums, etc. have always been a minuscule percentage of the people who watch the show.  Most people will only tune in once the advertising for the new season kicks into high gear.

You completely missed the point.

[Minneapple]

Nobody knew exactly when the last season was coming, especially not people who aren't in fandom. Consider just how much content is on Comcast's On demand platform (and there is a fuck ton of it) plus the fact that Game of Thrones is on a higher tier of pay service. It's an impressive feat considering there haven't been any new episodes since mid-2017. 

[nikma]

28 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Nobody knew exactly when the last season was coming, especially not people who aren't in fandom.

Everybody knew it will be in 2019.

 

29 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

It's an impressive feat considering there haven't been any new episodes since mid-2017. 

It is impressive, but as I said if they had 2 years between seasons since S1 the show would't be this popular. The momentum would be lost. 

[nikma]

Post from other forum: 

 

 

www.averagesocialite.com/2017/11/game-of-thrones-season-8-final-season.html
March 25th for Red Carpet premiere. This site has been legit for past seasons.

Edited January 1, 2019 by nikma

[Happy Harpy]

It seems that BLL should air in June (link of Nicole Kidman's interview posted on Freefolk).

If S8 is less than three months away, 2019 starts with good news.

[glowbug]

6 hours ago, nikma said:

Post from other forum: 

 

 

www.averagesocialite.com/2017/11/game-of-thrones-season-8-final-season.html
March 25th for Red Carpet premiere. This site has been legit for past seasons.

 

How far before the television premier date have the red carpet premiers been for previous seasons? The HBO promo says the show will be back April 2019. Would they really have the red carpet more than a week in advance? The following Sunday is 3/31 so if it is to premier in April that would mean nearly two weeks before the TV premier. That’s a long time for spoilers to leak out. Have they done this in the past? I’m really hoping that promo was wrong or they were alluding to April because the majority of the season will air then. 

Edited January 1, 2019 by glowbug

[Happy Harpy]

23 minutes ago, glowbug said:

How far before the television premier date have the red carpet premiers been for previous seasons? The HBO promo says the show will be back April 2019. Would they really have the red carpet more than a week in advance? The following Sunday is 3/31 so if it is to premier in April that would mean nearly two weeks before the TV premier. That’s a long time for spoilers to leak out. Have they done this in the past? I’m really hoping that promo was wrong or they were alluding to April because the majority of the season will air then. 

It wouldn't be the first time. The red carpet for S6 took place on April 10th whereas 6x01 aired on April 24th. A S8 red carpet on March 25th with 8x01 airing April 7th would follow the same pattern.

Maybe HBO didn't have an exact certainty as to when GoT would be ready to air, either, because of the huge post-production work; wasn't there an interview last year of a CGI guy who said they wouldn't be able to finish before May or June? They probably would have had to air BLL after True Detective, then. Of course, they probably like it much better to have GoT contending for Emmys in 2019 and BLL in 2020.

[glowbug]

15 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

It wouldn't be the first time. The red carpet for S6 took place on April 10th whereas 6x01 aired on April 24th. A S8 red carpet on March 25th with 8x01 airing April 7th would follow the same pattern.

Maybe HBO didn't have an exact certainty as to when GoT would be ready to air, either, because of the huge post-production work; wasn't there an interview last year of a CGI guy who said they wouldn't be able to finish before May or June? They probably would have had to air BLL after True Detective, then. Of course, they probably like it much better to have GoT contending for Emmys in 2019 and BLL in 2020.

Thanks. I didn’t remember how far in advance they were for previous seasons. You would think that with how antispoiler they’re being this year they would have the red carpet premier closer to the television premier. Maybe they don’t care about spoilers for the first episode that close to the premier.

[John Potts]

On ‎30‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:27 PM, anamika said:

Friki also insists that the trial is because Tyrion betrays the Starks and not Dany - but the soldiers guarding Tyrion are Unsullied led by Greyworm. So if Jon/Dany are dead or gone why are the Unsullied sticking around at a trial set up by the Starks for betrayal against them - The Unsullied owe the Starks nothing.

I came up with a random (almost certainly to be proven wrong) theory that Jon believes he has to reforge Lightbringer by killing Danny (probably after she's delivered her Targcest baby). That's why Tyrion betrays Jon - not sure if he'll survive that or not (I could see it going either way). Jon probably lives to face down Cersei and probably ends up being miserable as King, but doing it out of duty (maybe abdicating once his child comes of age).

The Unsullied (in this scenario) might follow Jon as they see him as Danny's heir. After all, where are they going to go? Maybe they've acquired more of those teleporters that everybody seemed to get hold of, but otherwise it's pretty hard to move an army about quickly. And if there's anyone you want to be stuck in a life and death struggle, it's the Unsullied.

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, glowbug said:

Thanks. I didn’t remember how far in advance they were for previous seasons. You would think that with how antispoiler they’re being this year they would have the red carpet premier closer to the television premier. Maybe they don’t care about spoilers for the first episode that close to the premier.

Yes, and they're in control of those spoilers. I believe it's their biggest issue, since until 6x01 anybody who wanted to know the big plot twists just had to go to Wikipedia and it never hurt the ratings.

One more reason for HBO not to care, I don't think there will be huge shockers in 8x01; usually the premiere deals with the narrative fallout of the previous season and places the pawns on the chessboard. Even Arya's wiping out the Freys, in spite of being hugely satisfying (YMMV) belonged to the former category and Ellaria's coup, IIRC the biggest surprise in a season opener (but 1x01, of course) to the latter. It doesn't mean there won't be action or narrative progression but after the S7 final even casual viewers expect every event virtually on the menu to happen at one point: AOTD beginning to scourge the North, parentage bomb dropping, even Jaime's arrival at WF or a Theon/Euron confrontation -although the last two will imo be in 8x02.

Rather than plot twists, I imagine that payoff for 8x01 will rely heavily on character interactions, where spoilers can't lessen the emotional impact of a scene. Being told "Jon and Arya hugs and she tells him I missed you, big brother" and actually seeing Jon and Arya hug and Arya tell him "I missed you, big brother" isn't the same, at all. (Example chosen completely at random *whistles innocently*) Very efficient weapon to hype the show by using its rich history without revealing anything truly big about future twists.

If there's a WTF imo, it will be Cersei's miscarriage, so no one here would be surprised. Maybe Dany will find out she's pregnant in parallel, which was foreshadowed in 7x07.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[GrailKing]

53 minutes ago, John Potts said:

I came up with a random (almost certainly to be proven wrong) theory that Jon believes he has to reforge Lightbringer by killing Danny (probably after she's delivered her Targcest baby). That's why Tyrion betrays Jon -

The betrayal is Tyrion tells the story of LB to Jon in a way that makes Jon think he have to do the same?

I kind of like that , with hope Sam tells him it's BS. : )

[anamika]

On 12/31/2018 at 7:50 PM, screamin said:

I think that even if Jon will be revealed as a Targaryen, the Starks would take Tyrion engineering Jon's death so that Dany (his preferred candidate) could keep the throne as a betrayal of themselves. They wouldn't just shrug and say, "Well, Jon was just a Targaryen, not a Stark, so why should we care?"

Maybe the crowd of Unsullied at the trial is because the trial may take place in a drumhead court just after a battle. The presence of a surrounding army to secure the perimeter would be natural then.

Jon is alive after the great war with the WW. The last scene Dinklage filmed, as per Javi, is Tyrion, Jon and Davos walking through and surveying a destroyed KL with Tyrion looking guilty for apparently locking the KL gates and preventing the KL folks from escaping dragon fire. He did this to prevent them from becoming wights. But he also says 'They deserved it' during his trial.

Tyrion's betrayal is revealed in a scene featuring 5 characters - Jon, Dany, Sansa, Arya and Tyrion himself.

The Trial takes place several months after the great war. Tyrion is disheveled, with long hair and shabby, dirty clothes - he has been in a dungeon and brought for the trial by Greyworm and 30-40 Unsullied. No other soldiers - Northern, Vale, Ironborn are present.

As for Tyrion preferring Dany over Jon, what was the point of the Tyrion-Dany conflict in season 7 if Tyrion is going to murder good guys to ensure that Dany becomes queen? The show and the script shows a Tyrion who is becoming increasingly conflicted over Dany because she reminds him of her father and because he is still loyal to his family/House Lannister and wants them to live.

And well if the Starks took Tyrion engineering Jon's murder as a betrayal of the Starks, would not Dany - who also loves Jon - see it as a betrayal against her as well?  But Friki is pretty adamant that it is only the Starks that Tyrion betrays. Not Dany.

Edited January 2, 2019 by anamika

[screamin]

38 minutes ago, anamika said:

And well if the Starks took Tyrion engineering Jon's murder as a betrayal of the Starks, would not Dany - who also loves Jon - see it as a betrayal against her as well?  But Friki is pretty adamant that it is only the Starks that Tyrion betrays. Not Dany.

I agree. But Friki may be repeating Tyrion's own defense at the trial. If Tyrion talked Jon into sacrificing himself to kill the Night King and Dany found out about it, I could totally see Tyrion saying that what he did was NOT a betrayal of Dany; that by only sharing the information about how a Targaryen had to be the one to kill the NK with Jon and let him sacrifice himself alone, he was saving pregnant Dany and her dynasty, and therefore acting in her best interest.

I imagine it'll sound good. Tyrion's an eloquent lawyer, good at finding persuasive and worthy-sounding reasons for doing things that aren't as good as he makes them sound. Recall how well he persuaded Dany to spare King's Landing for humanitarian reasons when he was mainly interested in sparing Cersei (as he admitted later). But I don't think that Dany will exonerate him this time.

[anamika]

5 minutes ago, screamin said:

I agree. But Friki may be repeating Tyrion's own defense at the trial. If Tyrion talked Jon into sacrificing himself to kill the Night King and Dany found out about it, I could totally see Tyrion saying that what he did was NOT a betrayal of Dany;

As mentioned above, Jon survives the great war and therefore is not sacrificing himself. He is still alive at the end of it all to stroll through a destroyed KL surveying the damage along with Tyrion and Davos.

[WindyNights]

Well there's a leaker talking about the ending and he makes it sound pretty damn grim:

 

The fate of the characters at the Dragonpit:

 

"He admits to his crimes and then delivers a passionate monologue about how the ones judging him are as guilty as him because they or their families have all participated in the wars and think their reasons are more justified than his. He calls them hypocrites and then brings up Tywin's speech about why is it noble to kill 10000 men in battle than a few at dinner. He says he finally understands his father and regrets not putting his family first. Everyone else did but he always supported other families instead of his own and now he is all alone and being judged by those very people. He brings up Daenarys and Jon and how he did everything for her to get her the throne but she dismissed him and his advice and his love once she had Jon. He talks about how no matter what he does he will never belong anywhere but he doesn't care anymore. He says he has accepted his fate but the others don't get to continue when they are as guilty as him for the destruction that had happened to westeros since the war of the five kings began. There is a huge moment in the end when he pauses and says this wasn't his trial alone but their trial as well and he pronounces all of them guilty. That is when the rumbling starts under the dragonpit and Tyrion smiles and closes his eyes. There will be a split second shot of characters looking at each other slightly confused except for Bran who looks straight ahead at all times with no expression. The dragonpit will then explode by wildfire."

 

Why it happens:

"No. The clues are for showing that all wars are bad. There are clues for Tyrion betrayal as well. He won't be shown as a monster. His monologue will make people question if they had been supporting wars just because their favorite starks and targaryens were waging it. The end result is only commoners suffering. Tyrion brings down the system in his own way in the end."

 

 

"That is the point. The audience should root for the smallfolk. They are the smallfolk equivalent. Even in the wars fought in our modern world, the only people who suffer are the commoners. The ending is not nihilistic at all. It has a very inspiring message for the real world with innocent commoners surviving and getting to live in peace. World peace is all common people want, while leaders of countries want wars for power. A nihilistic ending would be Martin adopting a science fiction ending and blowing up the planet which he didn't do."

 

"That is not my interpretation. That is what everyone from the show will tell the audience once the final episode airs. Some actors like Sophie and Nikolaj love the ending and anti-war message and are already excited to talk about it after the final episode airs. This story isn't only high fantasy fiction."

 

 

Concerning Jon and Dany:

 

"They are already dead before the dragonpit scene. Tyrion kidnaps pregnant Daenarys but Jon thinks it is Cersei and goes to kings landing to save her. She takes him to the dungeon where Daenarys is chained and then Tyrion walks in and stabs Jon. Daenarys is already bleeding to death and she and Jon die beside each other. Their last scene is a shot of their hands reaching out to each other. It is a very heartbreaking scene."

 

"Jon doesn't ride Rhaegal. Ghost dies in winterfell battle. The baby dies before being born."

 

 

"Certaindish is wrong. Friki is right but he only knows half leak. The third WTF is Tyrion blowing up the dragonpit after his trial. He knows about the wildfire stored under the dragonpit and asks for his trial to be there. Bronn helps him. Everyone in the dragonpit dies. It is martin's scouring of shire. Jon, daenarys and their baby are dead before the trial. Tyrion betrays and kills them. Only commoners are alive in the end. There will be no more broken men in westeros."

 

Concerning the survivor:

"Your uncle is right. All nobles dying and commoners rebuilding their lives and living in peace with no more wars on the horizon is the revolutionary ending. No one has predicted it because people can't imagine anyone having the courage to kill all the main characters. But Martin did. He was very happy after seeing the rough cut and is very proud of his ending. Tyrion is the character who no one thought would die but he dies and kills everyone else too. The character who survives and was on show from first episode of first season is Theon."

 

On why Friki doesn't know:

 

 

"If I am full of shit, why are you messaging me. I stopped by here because someone told me that friki leaked half of the ending here and HBO was panicking. I told the part Friki doesn't know yet about Tyrion blowing up the pit with wildfire after the trial. It is in CGI and no death scenes were shot so he doesn't know. I don't know what proof friki gave."

 

Who sits the throne:

 

 

"No one sits on the throne. It is martin's anti-war message. All nobles die because they fight meaningless wars. Only commoners survive. Tyrion dies in the blast too. He doesn't care."

[nikma]

It feels fake.

[tangerine95]

Yeah I'm not buying it.Doesn't exactly sound bittersweet in any way imo.

[Happy Harpy]

Three months of salty trolls and their trolling to go. Sigh.

[bubble sparkly]

Lol that sounds so fake, I really doubt every main character is going to end up dead.  Also, I cannot fathom how it would be possible for Tyrion to kidnap Dany.  Even if he someone managed to make off with her, she has a telepathic connection with Drogon and could simply get him to dracarys everyone, allowing her to walk free.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

4 hours ago, WindyNights said:

"That is the point. The audience should root for the smallfolk. They are the smallfolk equivalent. Even in the wars fought in our modern world, the only people who suffer are the commoners. The ending is not nihilistic at all. It has a very inspiring message for the real world with innocent commoners surviving and getting to live in peace."

 

This seems really fake. If we are meant to root for the smallfolk, why not make at least some of them real characters to begin with? 

[YaddaYadda]

That whole read sounds like a whole lot of crap. This isn't a bittersweet ending. It's bitter, period. 

The one important familial relationship for Tyrion (if we're going to go with this) was the one he had with Jaime. I think this is the key to understanding Tyrion's motivation behind this betrayal. I know people want Jaime to die in Brienne's arms because le sigh or whatever, by I think story wise, and for this plot especially (if Tyrion is going to go off the deep end because of whatever happens to Jaime), it would have more impact if he died in his brother's arms instead. 

Anyway. I guess we're going to have more of this until the show finally airs. 

[Eyes High]

We should be getting a premiere date pretty soon. One source at /Freefolk (who correctly predicted the release of the very first teaser hours before it happened) has said that the next teaser will be released between January 10th and 15th. Only four options (April 7th, 14th, 21st, and 28th). The early red carpet premiere date (March 25th) and the news that BLL has been bumped from March to June have raised hopes that maybe the premiere date will be earlier than the 28th, but who knows? For what it's worth, that same source I mentioned said that the premiere will be April 28th. Things may have changed if BLL got bumped, however.

It makes sense to me to release the next teaser with the True Detective S3 premiere on January 13th, but another poster on Freefolk said an "Etched in Stone" teaser would be released on January 11th (a Friday).

So, with only days to go until an official premiere date announcement, place your bets, ladies and gentlemen. Which will it be?

April 7th? April 14th? April 21st? Or April 28th?

...I'm going with April 28th, but I'm a pessimist.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

Posted byu/claytoy
My mind is my weapon6 hours ago
Nymeria's return confirmed
I did not wish to make any new posts for spoilers any more apart from designated comment thread, but this one seemed too exciting and I thought Nymerial-lovers would enjoy it. So making an exception for this case only.

Since outsourced employees started receiving upcoming task description emails, more scenes are coming up. Source heard in their online meeting about one such potential scenes to be outsourced. Nymeria biting and tearing off a wight's hand.

It is not clear yet if the wight was attacking Arya, or if Arya was present in that scene, or what happened later, because the discussion focused on only that part of the scene. Once my source and the related teams return from vacation, I will get to know more about it. And similar to before, any upcoming confirmed information will be posted as a new sub comment of the Confirmed information List comment thread instead of public posts like this in general. Thanks for your understanding and cooperation regarding that. Happy New Year!!! :)

 

WRG to everyone dies; seems to go totally against GRRM bittersweet ending.

[SeanC]

6 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Well there's a leaker talking about the ending and he makes it sound pretty damn grim:

Nonsensical, is the word I’d use.  It’s obviously fake, for a ton of reasons.

To cite just one, it would suggest the entire series is built around an indictment of the main characters that isn’t remotely true.  Indeed, the whole reason Jon is the (arguable) main hero is because he recognized the real threat to Westeros and acted accordingly, but Tyrion kills him because he only cares about power or some nonsense?  Bran?  Arya?

[screamin]

13 hours ago, anamika said:

As mentioned above, Jon survives the great war and therefore is not sacrificing himself. He is still alive at the end of it all to stroll through a destroyed KL surveying the damage along with Tyrion and Davos.

Do we know for certain that the scene of Jon surveying the damage to KL comes after ALL the fighting is over in the war?

ETA: Yeah, count me among those skeptical of the "power to the people!" Tyrion spoiler.

Edited January 2, 2019 by screamin