Speculation with Spoilers: We're all Seers Now

[Advance35]

So we are getting a female Athelstan.   The writers honestly haven't let me down yet but I hope they make her character somewhat unique and the dynamic that goes with them.   As it is, I feel like Athelstan was reincarnated into a young chinese woman.

 

She's gorgeous though and like I said the writers haven't let me down yet so hopefully they make her unique, but my first impression was an eyeroll.

[Babalooie]

Cute wedding night scene.  Can't wait for it to turn out hot.

 

 

http://www.tvguide.com/news/vikings-season-4-rollo-gisla-wedding-night/

[magdalene]

So, after what Rollo did at the end of the episode one would think his days are numbered if one wasn't aware of the historical significance of the character.  What makes me uneasy is that Hirst has killed off at least one historical character - King Horik -  who didn't die then and that way.  However, Rollo of Normandy is much more important than Horik.  William the Conqueror and most of the European royality are descended from Rollo. Historically, Rollo died of old age.

 

However, after reading that this is Travis Fimmels last season it may be bye-bye Ragnar this year.

[bunnyblue]

However, after reading that this is Travis Fimmels last season it may be bye-bye Ragnar this year.

 

Whoa, it is?? I know the promos had a bit of foreshadowing with Ragnar and snakes, but I hadn't heard it's Fimmel's final season. I don't know if I'd watch the show without Fimmel/Ragnar. :-(

Edited February 21, 2016 by bunnyblue

[green]

Whoa, it is?? I know the promos had a bit of foreshadowing with Ragnar and snakes, but I hadn't heard it's Fimmel's final season. I don't know if I'd watch the show without Fimmel/Ragnar. :-(

 

Well Ragnar's storyline is running out. Or actually has in many ways.  They fictionalized him in Paris (Paris being moved back into Ragnar's era) to keep him around longer as it is.  Bjorn and his step brothers should have taken over by now historically speaking.

 

Yeah the fact that Fimmel has made such a big impression on viewers will make any transition rough but you can't have Ragnar keep living so far into the future that he wasn't part of.  I appreciate and am grateful that they have stretched Ragnar further than historically they should have as it is to keep Fimmel heading the cast

 

And yeah they won't kill off Rollo any time soon.  They created (rather, adopted I guess) Rollo just for this storyline mainly and backloaded it to make him Ragnar's brother to have him in place for this moment and to explore family relationships Vikings style etc especially between ambitious brothers.  And have a major character built up so when Ragnar met his end you had another one in place who had been around from the very beginning.  Most writers would have waited to introduce Rollo during last season but this one chose to have Rollo in place from the beginning which was a smart move dramatically I think.

[magdalene]

Well,  after learning that Clive Standen has been cast as the lead in another series it looks like dead Rollo this season, never mind actual history. I am disappointed. I wanted to see certain things play out true to history.

[green]

Well,  after learning that Clive Standen has been cast as the lead in another series it looks like dead Rollo this season, never mind actual history. I am disappointed. I wanted to see certain things play out true to history.

 

Why?  The series is in the can for this season.  And you can always juggle acting schedules in the future.  I see no problem whatsoever.

[Babalooie]

I suspect that Rollo will have to take a certain someone down a peg or two after this....

 

 

[ElizaD]

Well,  after learning that Clive Standen has been cast as the lead in another series it looks like dead Rollo this season, never mind actual history. I am disappointed. I wanted to see certain things play out true to history.

 

I don't think the show will kill him off after all it's done to make him the historical Rollo. I hope this means the Paris court won't get as much screentime next year as it seems to be getting this season; even Ecbert (the best non-viking character IMO) can't make his court as interesting as the viking-focused plots where the show really shines.

[nowornever]

That body looked way too big to be the toddler that they showed earlier- could Helga be planning something?

[Babalooie]

Not sure where to put this, but I am BEYOND excited to read today that Vikings has been renewed for Season 5.  But the big news is that Michael Hirst, who wrote "The Tudors", is bringing in none other than Jonathan Rhys-Meyers (Henry VIII).  I love him and hope that he stays out of trouble with the airlines.  Any speculation on who he will play?

[orza]

If they do a time jump maybe Alfred the Great.

[magdalene]

Or he could be playing the grown up Ivar?

 

According to some cast members there is going to be a big time jump this season.

 

I believe both Ragnar's and Rollo's story will conclude during this season. Ragnar will die and Rollo will become the Duke Of Normandy. Which fulfills his destiny.

 

Travis Fimmel has completely changed his look and Clive Standen is going to be starring on a another TV series - actually he has started filming it.

 

All the Ragnar sons are being aged up to adults. Are we destined to see Lagertha in "old" make-up?

Edited March 19, 2016 by magdalene

[Stratego]

Or he could be playing the grown up Ivar?

 

According to some cast members there is going to be a big time jump this season.

 

I believe both Ragnar's and Rollo's story will conclude during this season. Ragnar will die and Rollo will become the Duke Of Normandy. Which fulfills his destiny.

 

Travis Fimmel has completely changed his look and Clive Standen is going to be starring on a another TV series - actually he has started filming it.

 

All the Ragnar sons are being aged up to adults. Are we destined to see Lagertha in "old" make-up?

Rollo is already Duke.  The time jump is necessary in order for Lagertha's sons to assume the lead roles currently held by Ragnar and Rollo.

Lagertha in "old" makeup?  Bjorn is likely in his mid 20's now--and he is Lagertha's son.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Stratego

[magdalene]

But the other boys are still at least 10 years from their twenties. Lagertha started out Ragnar's age, and Ragnar is now middle-aged and getting old. Especially considering that people aged a lot faster back then because life was hard and nutrition bad, etc..

 

So unless Lagertha has drunk from the fountain of youth and if the character remains on the show, once those younger boys become the famous historical figures Lagertha realistically would be aged.

[Babalooie]

The baby news has Ragnar fooled, too, assuming that there is NO baby.

 

http://www.accesshollywood.com/videos/vikings-exclusive-sneak-peek-ragnar-lagerthas-heart-to-heart/

[StannisB]

HI, i made this Tribute, tell me what you think about it !

 

[Babalooie]

Very well done.  Great soundtrack.  It's sad to see the change in Ragnar and Floki.

[PatsyandEddie]

Superb! Love your choices (and your avi -18days! )!!!

[LOA-maker]

i think ragnar will go in his pit of snakes soon enough. 

 

and fimmel is starring in a film now, so he'd want to pursue this avenue and not so much TV.

 

by season six, I can see bjorn in the med (with photos from malta, and silicy i bet haha..) and ubba, hvitserk, sigurd and ivar grown and raiding. 

 

but then alfred fought against guthrum, not directly against any of the sons of ragnar. not sure who guthrum would be.

[green]

i think ragnar will go in his pit of snakes soon enough. 

 

and fimmel is starring in a film now, so he'd want to pursue this avenue and not so much TV.

 

by season six, I can see bjorn in the med (with photos from malta, and silicy i bet haha..) and ubba, hvitserk, sigurd and ivar grown and raiding. 

 

but then alfred fought against guthrum, not directly against any of the sons of ragnar. not sure who guthrum would be.

 

Didn't Lagertha call that kid that name maybe?  Erlunder and Torvi's son when she told him to trust no one before they departed?  I remember the name sounded vaguely German to me like somewhat close to Gunther or something.  Guthrum would fit the bill.  And I figured something was up with the kid and he wasn't suppose to just be some pint-sized red shirt when he gets a really intense lesson on Viking survival and such from Lagertha.

 

My speculations for this season:

 

With the season split into 10 and 10 episodes (damn, just show us all of them at once) I'm guessing the Paris raid will wind-up the first half and the Franks will shift to the B storyline in the second half with Rollo setting up court in Normandy.

 

Second half my guess is the main story will be the Vikings internally (King Harold's threat) and especially externally as Ragnar finally spills the beans on what happened to the Viking settlement.  He already dropped a hint of his guilt and shame over it on the roof scene with Yidu.  So the B story line Saxons of the first half of the season will ascend into the A story line with the Vikings returning to England ending with Ragnar's death. 

 

Remember when Ragnar spared Erlunder's life because he remembered Erlunder "got it" about the real wealth of England which was it's fertile farmland?  Remember how Erlunder even asked Ragnar how the settlement was doing first thing when they met again?  I'm guessing Erlunder is really going to be pissed at Ragnar lying about the settlement is doing well when he learns the truth.  Maybe he will end up betraying Ragnar to Alle even.  Figure all those lines and foreshadowing is for some reason but could be wrong.  OTOH a major protagonist in a drama like this traditionally is taken down by nefarious and underhanded means.

 

And since historically (or saga-wise at least) Ragnar's sons capture King Alle and blood eagle him to revenge his death so maybe that is why the two younger sons have joined the raiding party to join Bjorn in the revenge.  Whether that will happen to end this season or begin next is the question but they are making it clear the two oldest of Aslaug's brood are ready to take part in all affairs Viking anyway.

 

The only thing I don't get is why King Alle hasn't had his story line jacked up a bit more this season.  He visits Ecbert's court at Christmas to remind us he is still around and is upset at Judith then he is gone again.  Now in Season 1 we saw his snake pit.  But Ecbert has been set up as being far more capable than Alle to take Ragnar out ... or to do anything really.  And Ecbert is responsible for the Viking settlement massacre.  I don't think they would switch Ecbert in for Alle cause that really messes with history too much for my taste but dramatically it would make more sense the way the show has been going.

Edited April 7, 2016 by green

[Babalooie]

My previous post was a lame attempt at humor regarding Ragnar going cold turkey, but I just read this interview with Hirst and apparently MILD SPOILER:

that was intended to be part of the story.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vikings-boss-talks-latest-casualties-final-showdown-ahead-030524928.html

[ElizaD]

The interview says that there will be more deaths and I suddenly got worried for Lagertha. What if the seer's prophecy about her not having children is true because she dies, and Gisla has her chance to see Lagertha when she and Rollo find the body after the battle? Vikings without Ragnar and Lagertha would feel like a much smaller, shakier show, but who else could die? Erlendur, hopefully. I agree that Harald is needed to be the viking ally/enemy in the second half of the season; I guess his brother is one possibility.

[green]

Lagertha should be fine.  They aren't going to off both Ragnar and Lagertha in the same season and Ragnar isn't going to make it out of season 4 though he has too much storyline not to make it back to England first.  Plus his struggle with withdrawal should take more than the 2 remaining episodes.  Also with Lagertha her story doesn't feel completed yet.

 

Erlunder could be gone given Torvi's freak-out vision or Torvi herself could go.  Also though the 4 Aslaug rug rats survived historically it would be dramatically hard to deal with all 4 plus Bjorn, Alfred, Magnus and that Gunthram (sp) kid (Torvi/Erlunder's one) into Vikings: The Next Generation.  The two with Ragnar were close historically with the younger one becoming more prominent and the older one serving more as his lieutenant.  But dramatically you don't need both of them.  Maybe one of them gets killed.  Think how that would effect Ragnar's descent into darkness.

 

Very interesting interview.  Thanks, Babalooie, for the link.

 

So Yidu and Ragnar was originally suppose to be a love story.  Glad Travis helped talk Hirst out of that one. 

 

What was really interesting though was when Hirst mentioned that Athelstan originally was just a minor character in passing but it became clear quickly he was too interesting to just be a red shirt and should stick around big time.  Thank goodness for that!  And that the same thing happened to Judith who was also suppose to be a throw away character who started to grow and apparently will become more important.

 

Don't believe Hirst when he says we will be sympathetic towards Aslaug.  Too late to rehab her with me.  Ever.  It is one thing when the character is bad.  It is another thing when I can't get into the actor playing the role.  Combine the two and that equals less than zero.  I don't care if she goes out rescuing lost kittys and building orphanages.  I do not like her.  Period.  And that is really really rare with me.  I can usually see something in almost any actor and/or character.  But I'm allergic to Aslaug.  She is worse than hay-fever.

[Haleth]

I just finished a really interesting book called Queen Emma and the Vikings by Harriet O'Brien.  It takes place 150 or so yrs after Vikings.  

Emma was the great granddaughter of Rollo (thus Norman), married King Aethelred the Unready (Anglo Saxon, great grandson of Alfred) and after he died she married King Cnut (Dane), so she bridged all three cultures.  Her children included a Danish/English king (Hathacnut) and an Anglo Saxon king (Edward the Confessor) and she was the great aunt of William the Conqueror.  Actual accounts of her life are (of course) sketchy, but it's thought she had a lot of influence at the courts of her husbands and sons.  The book gives a lot of background on life and politics in the 11th century.

[PatsyandEddie]

Isn't Guthrum Torvi's son by Jarl Borg? I remember a scene of his wedding to her where he was drinking out of the skull of his first wife. IIRC, she was pregnant when he was blood-eagled by Ragnar. She refers her to him as "my child" even when speaking with Erlandur. I posted a link to info from Encyclopoedia Britannica about the real Guthrum in the historical section.

I was trying to quote green and obviously it didn't work.

IA about Asslog. She has a huge sense of entitlement most of the time but it was her superior attitude towards Lagertha when she first arrived in Kattegat that sealed the deal for me.

Edited April 10, 2016 by PatsyandEddie

[magdalene]

I was reading the Hirst article where he remarks about Rollo having the "best endgame".  It makes me wonder how this final show-down between Ragnar and Rollo is going to go down.  One would think neither brother would die in it as Ragnar has a date with the snake pit, and Rollo ruled Normandy for many years until he passed the succession on to one of his sons and then died when he was in his seventies - which is ancient considering the mortality rate of the times.  Of course the Ragnar and Rollo as brothers thing is a total invention of Hirst, so it's hard to tell how this is all going to shake out.

[Stratego]

Well Hirst already killed-off Count Odo who actually became King of Frankia  (888-898).  So, I am wondering if he will kill-off Rollo ?

[green]

Isn't Guthrum Torvi's son by Jarl Borg? I remember a scene of his wedding to her where he was drinking out of the skull of his first wife.  IIRC, she was pregnant when he was blood-eagled by Ragnar. She refers her to him as "my child" even when speaking with Erlandur. I posted a link to info from Encyclopoedia Britannica about the real Guthrum in the historical section.

 

Oh good catch.

 

Well Hirst already killed-off Count Odo who actually became King of Frankia  (888-898).  So, I am wondering if he will kill-off Rollo ?

 

No I can't even imagine that.  Rollo is one of the major characters in the series.  And in the interview Hirst told the Rollo actor he had the best end game which can only mean the kingdom of Normandy.

 

OTOH Odo was a secondary character at best and not that important to history compared to the founding of the Normans and what they would do to England later.  It would be really hard to ignore that plot point because Rollo was only in the series to lead up to that very moment.  He was introduced earlier than the historic timeline because Hirst probably wanted the audience to know this major figure all along and not have him suddenly pop out of the woodwork as it were.  Makes for better drama.

 

Now if the actor (Clive something?) has left the series for another one and they can't work around his schedule on that show to film all that much of Rollo next season  then maybe he doesn't live into his 70's but dies a bit earlier.  But certainly not until he establishes Normandy and the kid on the way learns enough from daddy to carry on.

[StannisB]

Hi, i made a second Tribute to Vikings, tell me what you think about it :p

(And Rollo answered my tweet for the first tribute <3 https://twitter.com/CliveStanden/status/718019186383986688?lang=fr)

 

[PatsyandEddie]

I couldn't see the video StannisB but that is SOOO cool that Clive gave a thumbs up as well for the first one! Congrats!

[nora1992]

Don't know anything for certain, but I have the feeling that it will be Rollo who dies this week.  Besides promising that he would defend Paris "to the death" in earlier episodes, I found this in an online article:

 

...As the brothers finally find each other in the middle of the blood-stricken battlefield, Ragnar proclaims, "One of us will die today"; to which Rollo answers, "And it won't be me."...

 

Which, to me, means that of course it will be.  Just my own prediction, based on years of watching melodramas.

[PatsyandEddie]

For whatever reason the video worked for me this time. Well done StannisB!

No matter the outcome of this battle,it's going to be a helluva ride! Can't wait!

[Babalooie]

I feel that this episode will end with the frame of the two of them in midair battle, and both ultimately survive.  Would Hirst veer THAT far from the historical facts of their deaths?  Well, maybe.

[green]

I feel that this episode will end with the frame of the two of them in midair battle, and both ultimately survive.  Would Hirst veer THAT far from the historical facts of their deaths?  Well, maybe.

 

No he wouldn't mess with history that much.  But a cliffhanger maybe.  Hope not.  Hirst hasn't sunken to using cliffhangers before but then this is "mid-season finale" so maybe he will for this.

 

But if there is a cliffhanger than why not make two the second in regards Lagertha's fate because we see in the previews someone running a sword through either her left shoulder or upper left chest seemingly above her heart area.

 

In the end I don't think any of Ragnar, Rollo or Lagertha buys the farm at this point.  I assume the actors were under contract for the whole season and not just the first half or we would have heard otherwise.  Also, history.

 

In other news that preview also showed Floki got himself a helmet now (first major Viking character to use one) and seems to be directing the use of the "troop carrier cages" he built attached to the front of the Viking ships.  Can't wait to see how they are used.

 

BTW when does the second half of the season begin?

Edited April 20, 2016 by green

[Babalooie]

green,  I would guess that the second half would begin around the same time as the other Fall series debuts - September or early October.

[Babalooie]

Wow!  I didn't expect a grown GGPa Ivar to appear this quickly.  Time jump tomorrow!

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/04/vikings-season-4-alex-hgh-andersen.html

[Ohwell]

Wow, he looks treacherous.  Can't wait.

[orza]

Wow!  I didn't expect a grown GGPa Ivar to appear this quickly.  Time jump tomorrow!

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/04/vikings-season-4-alex-hgh-andersen.html

They mentioned the actors playing the other sons in the article so that leaves Jonathan Rhys-Meyers to portray Alfred.

[green]

Wow!  I didn't expect a grown GGPa Ivar to appear this quickly.  Time jump tomorrow!

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/04/vikings-season-4-alex-hgh-andersen.html

 

Mid-season finale?  Really?  Hope the guy got this wrong and it is the real finale instead.

 

I mean there are way too many loose ends in the current generation.  Poor Alfred hasn't even returned from Rome yet.  Ragnar and snakes scene hasn't been shown yet ... the one in the winter previews I mean where the floor back home is covered in hundreds in a vision. 

 

Also:  Ecbert and Aelle have issues with each other and Aelle has issues with Ragnar.  Rollo's wife is having a rug rat soon.  Roland and Theresa are up to no good.  Charles is a creepy weirdo.  Aslaug is becoming a drunk.  Lagertha gets wounded.  Floki gets a helmet.  Too many threads to tie up in one episode then make a giant time jump all in one hour (42 minutes).  Not buying it.  The set-up leads somewhere.  You don't throw away all the big dramatic moments you have just set-up.

 

Only way I can see this being right is if there is a flash forward vision by Floki to set up a tease for the last half of this season.  Or there is a jump but the new generation is discussing what happened in the past and we will get flashbacks to it all the second half.  But if the article is right and this guy appears in this coming episode I'm going Occam's razor and say maybe they do a second half teaser at the end of this coming episode which will contain a time jump scene from the 20th episode finale?

 

Also Hirst said pre-this season that the time jump coming up in the first half was a few years so he could show Alfred going on pilgrimage to Rome which he has now.  Not this big of a leap.  And if this actor orza mentions plays Alfred wasn't he just announced to be joining the cast for next season?  Things just are not computing.  Too many loose ends to tie up in one episode.  Something has got to be off here.

 

PS:  Re-read this again.  I see this is a speculation site and the time jump is based on cast photos leaking but how they assumed those photos are tied in with the mid-season finale is not explained in that article.  They seem to have taken a major leap themselves to come to that conclusion.  So I'm not taking this as fact that this all happens in episode 10.

Edited April 21, 2016 by green

[Haleth]

Jonathan Rhys-Meyers to portray Alfred.

Really?  Ugh.

[Babalooie]

Your always logical thinking is on point, green.    I agree that there is a lot that will have to happen in 42 min.  At 11pm EDT we will know if TV magic happened. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Babalooie

[green]

Your always logical thinking is on point, green.    I agree that there is a lot that will have to happen in 42 min.  At 11pm EDT we will know if TV magic happened. 

 

Yeah guess we will soon enough.  Personally I think they need the whole 42 minutes just to explain Floki's new helmet.  I mean that came from a dead Frank so is a Christian-cursed helmet there Floki.  What's up with that, dude?  Thor is really gonna be upset with you now.

[magdalene]

That site is usually correct with their spoiler info.  I am guessing we are going to get Ragnar against Rollo and the resolution of their conflict, whatever that may be.  And then, as the coda and the jumping off point to the second half of the season we time jump to see Ragnar's younger sons all grown up.  But I don't think the snake pit will happen tonight.  They are saving that for the end of the second half of the season I would bet.

[Ohwell]

But if they do save the snake pit until the end of the second half of the season, that means that Ragnar survives in tonight's episode.  We know that historically Rollo lives, so perhaps they both somehow survive tonight, despite the trash-talking?

[magdalene]

That's what I believe, Ohwell, they are faking us out with the "one of them is going to die!" thing.  Ragnar has a date with the snake pit later on. And Rollo hasn't done yet what he famously did.  I could of course be totally wrong and Rollo dies tonight. But my gut feeling says fake out.

[green]

That site is usually correct with their spoiler info.  I am guessing we are going to get Ragnar against Rollo and the resolution of their conflict, whatever that may be.  And then, as the coda and the jumping off point to the second half of the season we time jump to see Ragnar's younger sons all grown up.  But I don't think the snake pit will happen tonight.  They are saving that for the end of the second half of the season I would bet.

 

You got that totally right.  And all my guesses were off.  Oh well I did assume that the end of Ragnar will be in the last episode (Ep 20) too so I'm not totally skunked.  Just mainly skunked.

 

About Magnus.  His existence and (cough) pedigree came up with the settlement secret so the Vikings know about him now.  Well not Ragnar yet but he just wandered in from the cold.  Was there some real historical figure named Magnus from this era?

 

When I first heard Crazypants named her kid Magnus and given Mercia's territory would seem to include modern day Wales I was thinking some sort of Merlin shout-out since Magnus means a wizard or magic wielder literally and Merlin's quasi-historic roots/legend seems to center in Wales.  And there are so many time frames for the Arthurian legends from Roman Briton through this Saxon period I always wondered about that.  But nothing fits the storyline with this scenario so I'm clueless.

Edited April 22, 2016 by green

[Advance35]

I assumed Hirst made Magnus Ragnar's child for a few reasons.   He wanted a way to prevent Ragnar from stopping at nothing to destroy Wessex and King Echbert after the Settlement debacle was exposed.  Remember the rage Ragnar showed when he found out he had been outmanuevered by Echbert, shudders.   I also think he wants to personal element, to exist in the upcoming war between the Vikings and England.   Ivar and his gang v. Athelred, Alfred and Magnus will have a more entwined dynamic if Magnus is torn between his two different group of brothers. 

 

Isn't Alfred the youngest of the new generation of characters coming our way?  It'll be interesting to see if Magnus and Alfred have the same rapport Ragnar and Athelstan did.  If so, then England will have quite the hold on Magnus.

[PatsyandEddie]

One of the versions of Ragnar's legend names one of the sons Magnus but doesn't specify his mother's identity. IA that Alfred is the youngest and also that making Magnus Ragnar's gives even more reason to return to England, not only revenge for the settlers but to remove Magnus from Ecbert's clutches.

In the preview shown on HBO, Lagertha and AssLog might be in for a showdown . Damn I hope so! # teamLagertha

Edited April 22, 2016 by PatsyandEddie

[Advance35]

In the preview shown on HBO, Lagertha and AssLog might be in for a showdown . Damn I hope so! # teamLagertha

 

I could see this.   Based on what we saw I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Bjorn has had to hold things together with regards to Kattegat.   Alsaug doesn't even seem to care about LOOKING Queenly anymore.   Drinking and giggling when she got to watch the truth about the settlement in Wessex revealed to Bjorn.

 

I never considered Alsaug likeable but I do think Hirst may struggle with his female characters although I am unpopular in the sense that I like Judith.  She and Lagertha are two of my favorite characters.

 

IA that Alfred is the youngest and also that making Magnus Ragnar's gives even more reason to return to England, not only revenge for the settlers but to remove Magnus from Ecbert's clutches.

 

But they said Magnus was like 12 right?  He was raised Christian.   Christians don't tend to fair well in Kattegat.  I can't see Ragnar bringing him home, not with Aslaug, Ivar and  the others there.