THT Spoilers

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

they could give me that then I might forgive it, but if I am expected to watch that go down and Serena ends up with that baby and June is left with nothing as always? I just don’t know. 

Serena is not getting that baby. Doesn’t it say in the episode descriptions that the Waterford’s end up paying for how they treat June? This comes back to bite them I bet anything. 

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Serena is not getting that baby. Doesn’t it say in the episode descriptions that the Waterford’s end up paying for how they treat June? This comes back to bite them I bet anything. 

I can only hope so, that's the only way I could stomach that scene. While Gilead is A-OK with ritualized rape for the sake of procreation, they still frown upon sex for any other purpose. If they cut off Putnam's hand for forcing Janine to give blowjobs, there should be a much more severe punishment for raping a pregnant handmaid to try and induce labor.

[AnswersWanted]

1 minute ago, GraceK said:

Serena is not getting that baby. Doesn’t it say in the episode descriptions that the Waterford’s end up paying for how they treat June? This comes back to bite them I bet anything. 

 

 The mention of the 1-2 punch is what made me assume that Serena very well might end up with the baby, especially if she ended up with it after doing that to June, that would definitely be the worst outcome for June, should the child be born alive, and then she would end up being taken away right after. 

With how this show at times loves to “go there”, I could see Serena holding that baby with Fred as they drag a screaming and absolutely unhinged and inconsolable June out of that house, I hate to even think about it.

That, or the attack leads to June giving birth to the baby, the baby is either in distress or is still born, that also could be a possibility I thought about.

 I definitely think that the Waterford’s time is numbered based on this episode, I just don’t know how far they intend to push June’s torture and torment.

That interview posted earlier does not fill me with much enthusiasm on that front. 

[Stephanie23]

9 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Serena is not getting that baby. Doesn’t it say in the episode descriptions that the Waterford’s end up paying for how they treat June? This comes back to bite them I bet anything. 

No way in hell that she is getting that baby.

But I think that somehow the Commander and Serena will creep out of this situation. :/

[mamadrama]

Gilead people be so dumb...don't they realize that orgasm and nipple stimulation are two of the best ways to encourage labor? Doh! What am I thinking? That would offer some kind of sexual satisfaction to the woman and they're definitely not into that. 

Aunt Lydia's going to be mad. 

[AnswersWanted]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I can only hope so, that's the only way I could stomach that scene. While Gilead is A-OK with ritualized rape for the sake of procreation, they still frown upon sex for any other purpose. If they cut off Putnam's hand for forcing Janine to give blowjobs, there should be a much more severe punishment for raping a pregnant handmaid to try and induce labor.

 

 In the case of Warren his own wife was the one, presumably, who exposed the affair. Or someone close to them and she refused to defend him. 

Fred and Serena are together tag-teaming this unspeakable attack on June, they are taking part in it equally.  

I am not inclined to think that June‘s word of what they did to her will be taken over Fred and Serena standing as a united front against her. 

She is the troublemaker, she’s the handmaid, they are the respected and dignified commander and wife, they hold all the cards. 

How could June even prove what they did without a witness or a shred of evidence?

She is due to give birth soon anyway, all they have to do is claim that God intervened and brought the baby into the world suddenly, praise be.

How can she prove them wrong? 

I am hoping I am wrong, but I just don’t know with how this show goes sometimes. 

[mamadrama]

11 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I can only hope so, that's the only way I could stomach that scene. While Gilead is A-OK with ritualized rape for the sake of procreation, they still frown upon sex for any other purpose. If they cut off Putnam's hand for forcing Janine to give blowjobs, there should be a much more severe punishment for raping a pregnant handmaid to try and induce labor.

This act really cements Fred as a complete moron. I mean, if WE know this then he should know this. 

Unless, of course, they planned on killing June and doing a homemade C-section. "Oops! Sorry we didn't call everyone to come over for the fake birthing ceremony. She just went into labor so quickly and the baby was in danger. Sorry we couldn't save both!"

So weird. I went from going, "I hope the baby doesn't die because I really couldn't take that" to "If June can't keep the baby then I hope something happens to it." Damn this show. 

[AnswersWanted]

I think this episode is really going to set a benchmark for just how far a high-ranking official can go within the boundaries of so-called Gilead law.

Just how much power does Fred have, especially if he has Serena backing him up regardless of whatever it is that he’s doing.

Does Lydia truly have the ability, even if she were to believe June, to get involved or stop them? Just how far can an Aunt impose her will over a high-ranking commander and his household?

In general it always seems that the powers that be in Gilead really don’t care about what is going on as long as it seems to be done by certain people, Fred seems to be one of those people, so will he effectively cross that line in their eyes or will he get away with it as he has other behavior in the past?

Andrew seemed to be a hard line stickler for the rules,  I believe it was he who ultimately decided to punish Warren at all, but he’s now dead and something tells me that is going to factor in to how things are going to play out.

Just who is left in power that is really going to impose the strict law or are certain people going to get a pass?

[Stephanie23]

Someone posted the rape scene on YT and reddit but its down.

This is what the people who saw it say:

Spoiler

Sorry sorry sorry I’m terrible with links and this is only the second time I’ve ever posted on reddit. Trigger warning af - about to describe the whole scene. This is a rape scene. Opens with June in her room talking to her belly, Saying I love you and things to that effect. Rita walks in and says Serena wants to see her. As June exits the room Rita says “I’ll tell the baby about you” They nod tearfully at each other and June walks off. She pauses, takes a breath and rubs her neck for a moment before entering the Waterford bedroom. When she does, Serena tells her to take a seat on the bed. She does. And at the same time Fred appears and closes the bedroom door, closing the three of them inside. Serena places a hand in June’s and says “we need to get the baby out the natural way” June immediately understands what this means, starts to freak out. Speaking rapidly to Serena saying things like “no don’t. It’s bad for the baby” Serena says “this is for the baby, we have to, yes” Fred appears and flips June onto her back. Serena holds her arms down as June screams at her that she doesn’t have to do this and that she can stop this. At the same time Fred is frantically whispering affirming words to Serena to get her to comply.
Then they rape her. And as someone stated above, it is the most turned on we ever see Fred. It’s a rough scene.It ends with Serena walking into what I assume is the bathroom and shutting the door behind her. Fred turning away to puts his pants back on, and June lying there completely disassociated and broken.

:o

[AnswersWanted]

2 minutes ago, Stephanie23 said:

Someone posted the rape scene on YT and reddit but its down.

This is what the people who saw it say:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorry sorry sorry I’m terrible with links and this is only the second time I’ve ever posted on reddit. Trigger warning af - about to describe the whole scene. This is a rape scene. Opens with June in her room talking to her belly, Saying I love you and things to that effect. Rita walks in and says Serena wants to see her. As June exits the room Rita says “I’ll tell the baby about you” They nod tearfully at each other and June walks off. She pauses, takes a breath and rubs her neck for a moment before entering the Waterford bedroom. When she does, Serena tells her to take a seat on the bed. She does. And at the same time Fred appears and closes the bedroom door, closing the three of them inside. Serena places a hand in June’s and says “we need to get the baby out the natural way” June immediately understands what this means, starts to freak out. Speaking rapidly to Serena saying things like “no don’t. It’s bad for the baby” Serena says “this is for the baby, we have to, yes” Fred appears and flips June onto her back. Serena holds her arms down as June screams at her that she doesn’t have to do this and that she can stop this. At the same time Fred is frantically whispering affirming words to Serena to get her to comply.
Then they rape her. And as someone stated above, it is the most turned on we ever see Fred. It’s a rough scene.It ends with Serena walking into what I assume is the bathroom and shutting the door behind her. Fred turning away to puts his pants back on, and June lying there completely disassociated and broken.

:o

 

Huh. Yeah I...wow. No going back after that. 

[GraceK]

I just don’t understand the logic here. Are they that impatient for the baby or do they just want June to suffer? She’s gonna give birth any day now anyway, why force the issue? Just as power move because June pissed them off? Really????!!!

I think the one two punch here is June losing the baby.  It may not be in the stillborn sense, or in the shredder sense, I think it’s in the sense of in her plans have amounted to nothing. Whatever her grand scheme was to have her baby away from the Waterford’s and near Hannah will end up with her being raped and the baby taken away by force anyway and her left with nothing, probably giving birth alone and in traumatic circumstances. The only silver lining is that the Waterford’s will not be given that baby. 

[mamadrama]

Maybe it really IS the Waterfords in that swimming pool. I was really onboard with it being Issac and Eden, but perhaps it's not. 

I am totally fine with a Serena redemption arc. I am just as fine with Serena going out by the very laws she helped create, too. I'm pretty easy to please. 

My hope is on Aunt Lydia. I just hope they believe June. 

I do believe that Eden finds out about it, though, and reports it to Nick-hence the whole "it's the Handmaid" line and his "you're not making any sense."

Edited June 14, 2018 by mamadrama

[Stephanie23]

3 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I just don’t understand the logic here. Are they that impatient for the baby or do they just want June to suffer? She’s gonna give birth any day now anyway, why force the issue? Just as power move because June pissed them off? Really????!!!

I think the one two punch here is June losing the baby.  It may not be in the stillborn sense, or in the shredder sense, I think it’s in the sense of in her plans have amounted to nothing. Whatever her grand scheme was to have her baby away from the Waterford’s and near Hannah will end up with her being raped and the baby taken away by force anyway and her left with nothing, probably giving birth alone and in traumatic circumstances. The only silver lining is that the Waterford’s will not be given that baby. 

Me too, maybe to show the audience that SJ is not redeemable.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

On 6/14/2018 at 1:36 PM, GraceK said:

 

the majority of my frustration comes from the constant yo-yo of June’s storyline. It’s the same formula this season :: pregnant June feels powerful, gets sassy, gets slapped down with misery, gets hopeful, feels powerful, gets sassy, gets slapped down harder, gets hopeful, gets sassy, gets emotionally beat down, gets hopeful. It’s the same thing. And now it’s gonna start all over again only this time something even more horrific is gonna happen . Enough already!  She should really be under no illusions at this point over what kind of place this is, pregnant or not. 

 

Can you really blame her for having a smidgen of hope though? People who are witnessing all the horrors she's going through have hope for Serena, are actively advocating positive things for Serena Joy, her number two tormentor.  

Serena Joy taking a breather from tormenting her lulled her into a false sense of hope. She is not the only one who fell for it but she is the only one who can claim stockholm syndrome. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[GraceK]

I need Fred to die horribly. Or to be stoned by all the handmaids.

[mamadrama]

3 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I need Fred to die horribly. Or to be stoned by all the handmaids.

I'm okay with a variety of ways of achieving his death: stoning by Handmaids, ripped apart by Aunt Lydia, shot by Luke, weighted down in water by Rita, etc. I have zero cares for what happens to Fred, just as long as it's bad. (Then maybe my darling Joe Fiennes can go back to making me love him again.)

[VagueDisclaimer]

1 hour ago, Stephanie23 said:

Someone posted the rape scene on YT and reddit but its down.

This is what the people who saw it say:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorry sorry sorry I’m terrible with links and this is only the second time I’ve ever posted on reddit. Trigger warning af - about to describe the whole scene. This is a rape scene. Opens with June in her room talking to her belly, Saying I love you and things to that effect. Rita walks in and says Serena wants to see her. As June exits the room Rita says “I’ll tell the baby about you” They nod tearfully at each other and June walks off. She pauses, takes a breath and rubs her neck for a moment before entering the Waterford bedroom. When she does, Serena tells her to take a seat on the bed. She does. And at the same time Fred appears and closes the bedroom door, closing the three of them inside. Serena places a hand in June’s and says “we need to get the baby out the natural way” June immediately understands what this means, starts to freak out. Speaking rapidly to Serena saying things like “no don’t. It’s bad for the baby” Serena says “this is for the baby, we have to, yes” Fred appears and flips June onto her back. Serena holds her arms down as June screams at her that she doesn’t have to do this and that she can stop this. At the same time Fred is frantically whispering affirming words to Serena to get her to comply.
Then they rape her. And as someone stated above, it is the most turned on we ever see Fred. It’s a rough scene.It ends with Serena walking into what I assume is the bathroom and shutting the door behind her. Fred turning away to puts his pants back on, and June lying there completely disassociated and broken.

:o

Thank you for bringing this here and sharing.

 

I... I don’t even know what to say to this. I don’t see the necessity of pushing every human limit and seeing how much more awful a person can be treated, how much more a single person can withstand. This isn’t entertaining, If this is their reaction to Serena being remotely sympathetic, they should know this was excessive.

 

I, at least, hope that part of this scenes purpose, coupled with June alluding to violence in the household to Lydia last week, is that this house will not get to keep this baby. I don’t want the baby to die, I don’t think June could survive that on top of everything. Maybe it could go to another house, maybe Nick could smuggle it away, maybe Eden and Isaac witness something and that’s why they’re punished, I don’t know. But i want that kid to survive, i want June to see it, and I want Serena and Fred to suffer. 

[GraceK]

Ok so judging from both trailers and the from the interview from that article, this is My interpretation of what the episode might look like::

 

I think June fakes labor with the intention of trying to convince Fred to let her see Hannah. That’s the scene in the original trailer in Freds office where she says it might help her go into labor, being near her daughter. 

It also explains the smirk in her face to Serena when she’s in bed while  Aunt Lydia is explaining that false labor happens all time in the trailer.  It also explains the writers remark in the interview that she gets “cheeky and feels powerful “ . I think this false labor is all a ruse to try to convince Fred that being out of the house will calm her and help her give birth.( maybe it’s part of a plan to escape somehow who knows?)

this prompts Fred to throw her out of the room. This is the part of the interview where the writer mentions that June was living under a delusion. This false labor has also humiliated Serena and I think Fred has been sexually frustrated all season and June asking for favors has backfired.

hence the rape scene.

I think the part of the trailer where Fred is helping June in the car saying he has surprise for her, that she deserves this, is after the rape scene happens and he finally feeling satisfied and hes actually granting her request, and she’s on the way to see Hannah, only now it’s on his terms. You can tell in the trailer she looks shell shocked and disoriented.

I think something happens, either on the way there or on the way back, that causes June to go into labor, from the trauma and the stress, and she ends up giving birth alone and in traumatic circumstances.

Edited June 15, 2018 by GraceK

[AnswersWanted]

11 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

Thank you for bringing this here and sharing.

 

I... I don’t even know what to say to this. I don’t see the necessity of pushing every human limit and seeing how much more awful a person can be treated, how much more a single person can withstand. This isn’t entertaining, If this is their reaction to Serena being remotely sympathetic, they should know this was excessive.

 

I, at least, hope that part of this scenes purpose, coupled with June alluding to violence in the household to Lydia last week, is that this house will not get to keep this baby. I don’t want the baby to die, I don’t think June could survive that on top of everything. Maybe it could go to another house, maybe Nick could smuggle it away, maybe Eden and Isaac witness something and that’s why they’re punished, I don’t know. But i want that kid to survive, i want June to see it, and I want Serena and Fred to suffer. 

 

 Very well put, I just don’t see the purpose of going this far.

I know the term “torture porn” has come up more than once in regards to the show, but this episode upcoming basically goes there for me.

This show has pushed the line a lot but, to me, to run with this sort of scene in full, I just don’t see how this scene adds anything to the storyline considering the three people involved in it. 

 June getting raped is nothing new so they want to push the envelope and make it the worst sort of rape imaginable? Fred and Serena both agree to rape as a twosome on a regular basis so they decide to turn them into people willing to use that inexcusable and unforgivable act to get themselves a baby? A baby conceived from rape as is?

None of that is necessary to me.

It’s episodes like this that make me happy for spoilers so at the very least I can try and prepare myself for what’s to come, because if I were to watch this upcoming episode without any inkling that was about to happen...I’d probably quit the show. 

[GraceK]

3 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

t’s episodes like this that make me happy for spoilers so at the very least I can try and prepare myself for what’s to come, because if I were to watch this upcoming episode without any inkling that was about to happen...I’d probably quit the show. 

Seriously I need spoilers for this show for exactly this reason. This is just so unnecessary IMO. It really seems just for shock value at this point. 

[LordOfLotion]

2 hours ago, Stephanie23 said:

Someone posted the rape scene on YT and reddit but its down.

This is what the people who saw it say:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorry sorry sorry I’m terrible with links and this is only the second time I’ve ever posted on reddit. Trigger warning af - about to describe the whole scene. This is a rape scene. Opens with June in her room talking to her belly, Saying I love you and things to that effect. Rita walks in and says Serena wants to see her. As June exits the room Rita says “I’ll tell the baby about you” They nod tearfully at each other and June walks off. She pauses, takes a breath and rubs her neck for a moment before entering the Waterford bedroom. When she does, Serena tells her to take a seat on the bed. She does. And at the same time Fred appears and closes the bedroom door, closing the three of them inside. Serena places a hand in June’s and says “we need to get the baby out the natural way” June immediately understands what this means, starts to freak out. Speaking rapidly to Serena saying things like “no don’t. It’s bad for the baby” Serena says “this is for the baby, we have to, yes” Fred appears and flips June onto her back. Serena holds her arms down as June screams at her that she doesn’t have to do this and that she can stop this. At the same time Fred is frantically whispering affirming words to Serena to get her to comply.
Then they rape her. And as someone stated above, it is the most turned on we ever see Fred. It’s a rough scene.It ends with Serena walking into what I assume is the bathroom and shutting the door behind her. Fred turning away to puts his pants back on, and June lying there completely disassociated and broken.

:o

I don't understand why Serena would go to all that trouble to save someone else's baby and then put the one that she is going to get at risk by trying to induce labor. This woman has more flip flops than a house of pancakes. There needs to be some good, concrete reason for them wanting to speed things along like this, otherwise this is just lazy writing done for shock value.

[AnswersWanted]

56 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Seriously I need spoilers for this show for exactly this reason. This is just so unnecessary IMO. It really seems just for shock value at this point. 

 

 Without a doubt, and it doesn’t jive with the mood that Atwood created in my opinion.

Yes she came up with the premise for the idea and yes her book is breathtakingly shocking and horrific, but to me every single word put on paper had a purpose.

That’s why the book worked so well, because everything meant something, but what does a scene like this mean? What is it supposed to stand for? 

 There is nothing to be interpreted from it, there is nothing to be gained from it or learned from it, IMO, it’s just pain and grief and misery and torture amplified to the highest degree merged together and then shoved into this scene forcibly.

The same way Fred seems to be attacking June, with a sickening ferocity that shakes you to the bone.

Is it really supposed to advance the story? I just don’t think so.

 

49 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

This is not due to fan reaction. The show had already wrapped up filming before these were aired.

Serena was ALWAYS this horrid. This is just more of the same for the both of them. It is not the show's fault people have amnesia or high tolerance for rapists. 

 

I don’t fault the show for showcasing Serena’s true character or lack there of, but I just don’t want to see more suffering of this scale. 

Serena’s sins and faults and crimes are so many already, will this really make a difference or would it?

 I hate her plenty already, heh. they can afford to back off I feel. 

 And as for Fred...he just needs to be dissected, slowly. 

 

38 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Fred does it cause he’s been wanting to have sex with June all season and is sexually frustrated and angry, and Serena does it because I will bet you anything she is feeling angry and humiliated that June embarrassed her in front of all her society friends by going into false labor and because they have to show once for all that she a viper of a human being and that she is firmly in Gilead corner I guess.

 

I think this pretty much sums it up rather nicely.

Obviously Fred loves this sort of stuff, and for the first time he has Serena totally on board with him. 

Sure she’s taken part in the ceremony every time it’s been necessary, but this time she’s not only taking part as a duty but she’s encouraging him to go for it, to help them get this baby at any costs. 

She is actively helping him and I think that is taking his excitement to the next level.

 Maybe that was part of his sick plan all along, to finally draw Serena over to the darkside where nothing is too horrible or cruel or unimaginable, pleasure can be found in the darkest depths of depravity known and unknown, you just have to discover it. 

June is going to be forced to realize that Fred and Serena, whether together or apart, they both are her keepers in hell, and she has tried everything she can to play them against each other, to try to appease them both, but I think with this scene she will now learn and have to accept the harsh truth that they do not care about her at all. 

All she is, is their toy. 

 

43 minutes ago, LordOfLotion said:

I don't understand why Serena would go to all that trouble to save someone else's baby and then put the one that she is going to get at risk by trying to induce labor. This woman has more flip flops than a house of pancakes. There needs to be some good, concrete reason for them wanting to speed things along like this, otherwise this is just lazy writing done for shock value.

 

 I am going to go with sloppy writing or maybe even lazy conceptualization.   

I think someone is focusing on the wrong parts of the world that Atwood built right now. 

It was not just about the shock value and the terror and the sexual assaults, and if that is where the story keeps ending up then I feel the message is going to be missed because a good number of people are not going to be able to stomach this again and again without much, if any, relief. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[VagueDisclaimer]

34 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

I think someone is focusing on the wrong parts of the world that Atwood built right now. 

It was not just about the shock value and the terror and the sexual assaults, and if that is where the story keeps ending up then I feel the message is going to be missed because a good number of people are not going to be able to stomach this again and again without much, if any, relief. 

All of this. it’s like they’re just going for the broad strokes and then stuffing the rest of the show with some filler. The tonal change from last season to this has felt incredibly flat to me and the focus has gotten more and more blurry the further we get from the source material.

[LittleRed84]

On 6/13/2018 at 12:00 PM, greekmom said:

One thing that struck me as odd was in the preview Eden states to Nick that 'you don't touch me unless you have to.'

I was under the impression that sex even with Econopeople is for procreation only.  That statement sounded like something a 20+ year old would say. Not a 15 year old and not someone who would be a true believer of Gilead as Eden is portrayed at the moment. 

I think, just like handmaids, econohusbands are supposed to have sex with their wives once per month during fertile times for procreation. So that’s “when he has to”. 

[AnswersWanted]

40 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Toys aren't captivated, raped until they conceive and raped again. They are innate objects. It is how much these people have dehumanize the handmaids. Innate objects are treated better 

 

 I don't disagree with you, I do believe that they are inanimate objects as so labeled by Gilead society, my reason for labeling June as their toy in this sense is that the way this scene is being presented makes it seem as if they are actually full on playing with her in my opinion.

 More often than not they play with her emotions and with her mind, but in this scene for episode 10 I get the feeling that they are actively playing with her body, like she is a living doll.

 Serena is at the top posing and pinning her arms and keeping her chest immobile while Fred controls her lower half, it's like she's a robot or a machine that they are manipulating, there is no humanity in that action, you don't treat another human being that way but that is not how they see her.

For once the two of them together are working as one unit to take advannage of June in a way that they just haven't yet, imo.

 They are not hurting her based on ceremony or ritual, they are actively seeking an immediate reaction from her and they are literally going to force it out of her by any means necessary.

And it is because she belongs to them and they do not see her as a person deserving of compassion or kindness or dignity, she's just a thing, a living baby incubator, and theyll do with her what they want. 

 But I do think that you are right, most inanimate objects are treated better, at least ones that people treasure and appreciate, and handmaids don't fit that bill in the slightest. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I understand the analogy you are trying to make AnswersWanted, but there is nothing playful about what they are doing to June. The word play has no place in such violence and hurt. I know it is just word play but they are important when describing these evens. Play doesn't describe violent rape 

I disagree that this is the first time they've worked together to hurt June. They worked together, in the same manner, whenever they raped her in the past. The only difference here is June's resistance which forces them to be more forceful. The fact that she is being held captive in their home in itself is due to them working together as a team. 

[LittleRed84]

6 hours ago, greekmom said:

 

I’m just seeing this clip posted now, but the link won’t work. Anyone have an updated link so I can see? Thanks!

[AnswersWanted]

47 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I understand the analogy you are trying to make AnswersWanted, but there is nothing playful about what they are doing to June. The word play has no place in such violence and hurt. I know it is just word play but they are important when describing these evens. Play doesn't describe violent rape 

I disagree that this is the first time they've worked together to hurt June. They worked together, in the same manner, whenever they raped her in the past. The only difference here is June's resistance which forces them to be more forceful. The fact that she is being held captive in their home in itself is due to them working together as a team. 

 

 I get where you're coming from, I just don't want to get too off topic and wordy about a scene that hasn't even aired yet, because I am just specuIating here.

The way I see the word "play" in this instance is just the bare meaning of it, it is not playful as in a positive way but it's akin to the way some children "play" by pulling the wings off of a helpless fly.

The play is the act of the aggressor taking advantage of something or someone weaker than they are and getting enjoymen, or something for themselves, out of it. 

Of course ymmv. 

 I don't mean for it to have any positive connotations in this type of circumstance. 

 To me it's like how we describe a predator "playing" with their food or their prey, obviously the prey is not having a good time, but the predator is, the predator is enjoying the prolonged suffering of their captured prey, if that helps explain my thinking some, heh. 

And I was not trying to imply at all that this is in any way the very first time that they have hurt her or done this to her.

What I was saying is that this is the first time, IMO, that Fred and Serena are both carrying the same level of intensity and they are both fully engaged in the act. 

During every ceremony or ritual that came before, Serenna often looked ike she wanted to be anywhere else, doing anything else, but the look of that scene gave me the impression that Serena is just as determined to keep June held down and raped as Fred intends to do the raping, that's what I was getting at. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[AnswersWanted]

47 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

I’m just seeing this clip posted now, but the link won’t work. Anyone have an updated link so I can see? Thanks!

 

 I just tried and the link worked for me, are you trying to view it on the board or can you click the link to watch directly on the website?

Because sometimes I try to watch it on here but it won't play, it is still uploaded though and working once I open it on the site itself. 

 I usually find it easier to watch on the board if I'm on my phone versus my tablet, if that might help. 

[Anela]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Holy shit!

So it was false labor, but then June asked to be moved to another house nearer her daughter, and then it looks like Serena and Fred try to induce labor herself?  Or force that baby out?

What did everyone else get from that, and why are Israel's previews so much better?

WHAT THE FUCK?

What is with the writers of this show? I might be done. It's bad enough seeing her go through the motions of first cleaning up for the ceremony, and lying there as she's raped, all quiet and just trying to get through it. This? I guess it's showing what it really is, but shit. Sorry, all the swear words in the fucking world. Forcing himself on her, violently, with the help of Serena? GTF out of here. 

[Umbelina]

God, I hope Nick doesn't kill them both, and that's him and Eden drowning in the pool or hanging on the wall.

[Anela]

8 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Maybe it really IS the Waterfords in that swimming pool. I was really onboard with it being Issac and Eden, but perhaps it's not. 

I am totally fine with a Serena redemption arc. I am just as fine with Serena going out by the very laws she helped create, too. I'm pretty easy to please. 

My hope is on Aunt Lydia. I just hope they believe June. 

I do believe that Eden finds out about it, though, and reports it to Nick-hence the whole "it's the Handmaid" line and his "you're not making any sense."

I'm not okay with a Serena redemption arc, after seeing that. No way. She can go the same way as her husband.

7 hours ago, GraceK said:

I need Fred to die horribly. Or to be stoned by all the handmaids.

Right. Me, too. 

7 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I'm okay with a variety of ways of achieving his death: stoning by Handmaids, ripped apart by Aunt Lydia, shot by Luke, weighted down in water by Rita, etc. I have zero cares for what happens to Fred, just as long as it's bad. (Then maybe my darling Joe Fiennes can go back to making me love him again.)

Remove his favourite part of his anatomy, remove a few other parts of his body, too. 

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

God, I hope Nick doesn't kill them both, and that's him and Eden drowning in the pool or hanging on the wall.

Yvonne Strahovski said she gets to play Serena again, in season three, so I don't think she dies. 

[mamadrama]

According to IMDB, a diver and underwater cameraman are present in episodes 11 and 12, as well as a stunt double for Elisabeth.

[Becks]

10 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

 I’m just wondering if they’re taking a gamble that they can’t afford to with this, because I wonder if this is just a level that a lot of viewers are not going to be able to handle.

I can barely even stomach watching a preview of it, it’s just ...they haven’t provided enough relief, IMO, to crank the sadistic cruelty up to 11.

 

10 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm generally able to roll with most things I watch and keep some kind of perspective on them and I'm damn pissed that they appear to be going there.  What, were they afraid the misery quotient hasn't been dialed up to 17 every single second this season?  Why am I watching this?

That is the question I've been wrestling with all season, especially in the earlier going with the torture porny elements that were included. As the world worsens around us, I've wrestled with how much actual entertainment I'm finding in this show, with its relentless darkness. I've always been someone who's capable of enjoying the dark, so to speak, but the brutal rape of a nine-months-pregnant woman, who has already had to endure God knows how many rapes for years now, is just...why does this particular thing need to happen? How is it entertainment to lay waste to this woman like this?

I'm a GOT fan as well, I can handle the rough stuff. But I just don't understand why this particular writing choice needs to occur, other than for shock value. 'Ooh, you thought our main character had plot armor - look what we'll do to her!'. Would this be happening with a female showrunner? I don't know, but I desperately wish they weren't going there. And thank the spoiler gods that we can be prepared for it, because I would NOT want to go into this episode blind.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Becks

[Stephanie23]

6 hours ago, mamadrama said:

According to IMDB, a diver and underwater cameraman are present in episodes 11 and 12, as well as a stunt double for Elisabeth.

Hahahaha imagine that is June underwater after this horror and after giving away her baby.

Then I would be totally done with this show.

[LittleRed84]

6 hours ago, mamadrama said:

According to IMDB, a diver and underwater cameraman are present in episodes 11 and 12, as well as a stunt double for Elisabeth.

Soooo it could be nick and June in the pool, but she (or they) get saved last minute?

Otherwise why the stunt double?

6 hours ago, Becks said:

I'm a GOT fan as well, I can handle the rough stuff. But I just don't understand why this particular writing choice needs to occur, other than for shock value.

If this is the act that is their demise, the I can stomach it. Like, they both finally went too far even for Gilead and the show wants us to see the crime and the punishment. That’s the only way I can justify this. 

[Brn2bwild]

16 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

Soooo it could be nick and June in the pool, but she (or they) get saved last minute?

Otherwise why the stunt double?

If this is the act that is their demise, the I can stomach it. Like, they both finally went too far even for Gilead and the show wants us to see the crime and the punishment. That’s the only way I can justify this. 

Or it's for something else unrelated to the pool.

[Stephanie23]

Did you know that Yvonne filmed that rape scene while she was pregnant? :O

That must've hit home.

 

She said that from the Canada episode she was pregnant.

[mamadrama]

Episode 12: Postpartum

June finds herself back in a familiar place. Nick is rocked by Gilead's brutal response to a crime. Emily is assigned to a mysterious new house.

 

Doesn't sound like Nick in the pool, unless it is him and he doesn't die.

[GraceK]

8 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

une finds herself back in a familiar place. Nick is rocked by Gilead's brutal response to a crime. Emily is assigned to a mysterious new house.

 

Do we think this crime is regarding the rape of June or regarding Eden? If it involves Eden it could be Issac and Eden drowning in that pool or hanging on that wall 

Edited June 15, 2018 by GraceK

[AnswersWanted]

8 hours ago, Becks said:

 

That is the question I've been wrestling with all season, especially in the earlier going with the torture porny elements that were included. As the world worsens around us, I've wrestled with how much actual entertainment I'm finding in this show, with its relentless darkness. I've always been someone who's capable of enjoying the dark, so to speak, but the brutal rape of a nine-months-pregnant woman, who has already had to endure God knows how many rapes for years now, is just...why does this particular thing need to happen? How is it entertainment to lay waste to this woman like this?

I'm a GOT fan as well, I can handle the rough stuff. But I just don't understand why this particular writing choice needs to occur, other than for shock value. 'Ooh, you thought our main character had plot armor - look what we'll do to her!'. Would this be happening with a female showrunner? I don't know, but I desperately wish they weren't going there. And thank the spoiler gods that we can be prepared for it, because I would NOT want to go into this episode blind.

 

I think for a lot of people who prefer to remain unspoiled, when that scene comes up during the episode next week it is going to shatter a lot of preconceived notions not just about the characters but about the show itself.

 I think it was the show “13 Reasons Why” that already has dealt with a huge negative reaction to a scene in one of their episodes from their latest season. I don’t watch it personally but the news was all over the place for a while.

And I wonder if “The Handmaid’s Tale” is going to get the same kind of blowback, I do believe this type of scene could garner a lot of backlash and rightfully so. IMO. 

[mamadrama]

25 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Do we think this crime is regarding the rape of June or regarding Eden? If it involves Eden it could be Issac and Eden drowning in that pool or hanging on that wall 

 

Episode 11 says that SJ and Fred pay for their actions against June, but I bet it's still Eden and Issac in pool. I wonder why they won't announce ep 13's title. Must be a revealing one! Something like Drop Dead Fred? :-)

Edited June 15, 2018 by mamadrama

[chocolatine]

28 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

June finds herself back in a familiar place. Nick is rocked by Gilead's brutal response to a crime. [...]

Doesn't sound like Nick in the pool, unless it is him and he doesn't die.

 

22 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Do we think this crime is regarding the rape of June or regarding Eden? If it involves Eden it could be Issac and Eden drowning in that pool or hanging on that wall 

To me, it sounds like it's regarding Eden. Nick has seen a ton of brutality and has always been stoic about it, so if he's "rocked" by it it must be something that hit very close to home for him. We know he doesn't love or even like Eden, but I'm sure he feels a certain responsibility since she was assigned to him and she's a naive child who doesn't mean any harm.

[AnswersWanted]

46 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Do we think this crime is regarding the rape of June or regarding Eden? If it involves Eden it could be Issac and Eden drowning in that pool or hanging on that wall 

 

 

I don’t think the show is ready to lose Nick yet, but I could definitely see them throwing Isaac to the wloves, actual ones would be nice also, and Eden really could go either way at this point. I don’t think that she is such a key player especially since they created her out of thin air and she’s not actually a character from the book like Nick is.

 I would actually root for it having something to do with what happened to June, because if that means Serena and Fred are in fact held accountable in a very Gilead way for their attack on her then I’m for it, all chips in. 

 Another thought I had, heh, because I can’t shut up, perhaps the aftermath of the attack on June as it relates to her is what Nick ends up reacting to. 

June is still a handmaid, I am not so sure that the shitheads in Gilead are necessarily going to treat her so much as a victim as perhaps now a problem they need to deal with, especially if they are going to remove her from the custody of the Waterford‘s, if those fuckers are even still alive, so perhaps that is what rocks Nick’s world: he loses all access to June on top of losing the baby however that goes. 

That would be a huge blow to him I would think, that June is the one who was attacked, she was the one who was brutalized and tortured, and yet Gilead instead of offering her any sort of reprieve or compassion, instead they do what we have seen them do before which is basically act as if she’s a mere annoyance to be re-distributed elsewhere, like what happened to her was nothing.

They basically did that with Janine after the affair was revealed. Janine was not treated any differently than any handmaid getting a re-posting, she was just put elsewhere to repeat the cycle.

So I’m going to hedge my bets for now and say that it might have something to do with June getting re-posted in a new commander’s household.

This is Gilead after all, there’s always more raping to do...this show man. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[Anela]

30 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

I think for a lot of people who prefer to remain unspoiled, when that scene comes up during the episode next week it is going to shatter a lot of preconceived notions not just about the characters but about the show itself.

 I think it was the show “13 Reasons Why” that already has dealt with a huge negative reaction to a scene in one of their episodes from their latest season. I don’t watch it personally but the news was all over the place for a while.

And I wonder if “The Handmaid’s Tale” is going to get the same kind of blowback, I do believe this type of scene could garner a lot of backlash and rightfully so. IMO. 

I think so, too. A few friends of mine of mine were appalled when I let them know (online, and with spoiler tags). She also posted a link to an interview in which the show runner says he has the show mapped out for ten seasons. TEN YEARS. I'm having enough trouble with this one. He said that he envisions something like the Nuremburg trials. 

Oh, yeah, that was (for 13 Reasons Why):

 

another rape scene, of a teenage boy

. Either that, or

 

a school shooting, stopped, and the boy is helped to get away

. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Anela

[Umbelina]

52 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Episode 12: Postpartum

June finds herself back in a familiar place. Nick is rocked by Gilead's brutal response to a crime. Emily is assigned to a mysterious new house.

 

Doesn't sound like Nick in the pool, unless it is him and he doesn't die.

So, yay!  June and Nick are alive.  If Nick is rocked, it does sound like it's about Eden and probably brutal brat Issac.

24 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Episode 11 says that SJ and Fred pay for their actions against June, but I bet it's still Eden and Issac in pool. I wonder why they won't announce ep 13's title. Must be a revealing one! Something like Drop Dead Fred? :-)

OMG yes!  I hope they pay dearly, and by more than just having June's baby taken from them!

21 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

 

To me, it sounds like it's regarding Eden. Nick has seen a ton of brutality and has always been stoic about it, so if he's "rocked" by it it must be something that hit very close to home for him. We know he doesn't love or even like Eden, but I'm sure he feels a certain responsibility since she was assigned to him and she's a naive child who doesn't mean any harm.

Well, if it's the drowning in the pool, I'm pretty sure he'd be shocked no matter what.  While having Eden does complicate his already dangerous and difficult like, I'm pretty sure he doesn't want her dead, let alone tortured.

10 years is too damn long.  I like the show, and I think it's important, but I don't need 10 years of this, and I have wanted a resolve and more information since I originally read that epilogue back in the eighties.  Come on now, TEN YEARS? 

I hope they keep going the way they did last week, forward moving, more of the outside world reacting, less flashbacks.  I'd like for them to include the wars at some point as well, just how many areas of resistance are there?  How many Americans are fighting?  Are they winning any ground?  Is anyone assisting them, or at least talking about assisting them with arms, missiles, tanks?  How many Guardians went over to their side?

I hope we don't just have the Canadian reaction to those letters either, I want to see how the rest of the world reacts to them, even if it's only Fred, Moira, or Luke reading on line news...or Nick getting news from Mayday and sharing with with June. 

[AnswersWanted]

21 minutes ago, Anela said:

I think so, too. A few friends of mine of mine were appalled when I let them know (online, and with spoiler tags). She also posted a link to an interview in which the show runner says he has the show mapped out for ten seasons. TEN YEARS. I'm having enough trouble with this one. He said that he envisions something like the Nuremburg trials. 

Oh, yeah, that was (for 13 Reasons Why):

  Reveal hidden contents

another rape scene, of a teenage boy

. Either that, or

  Reveal hidden contents

a school shooting, stopped, and the boy is helped to get away

. 

 

Wow, either of those scenes would certainly be triggering in nature. 

 Yeah, I saw that comment  and I honestly thought it had to be hyperbole, there’s just no way to carry on something like this that long, I don’t think viewers would certainly hang in for that long, IMO. 

[VagueDisclaimer]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

 

To me, it sounds like it's regarding Eden. Nick has seen a ton of brutality and has always been stoic about it, so if he's "rocked" by it it must be something that hit very close to home for him. We know he doesn't love or even like Eden, but I'm sure he feels a certain responsibility since she was assigned to him and she's a naive child who doesn't mean any harm.

Agreed. I think it’s possible that Isaac makes a pass at Eden, whether reciprocated or not, and they are caught and reported. Nick would feel guilt and responsibility for something like this happening, especially because he denied her affection. Plus, she really is an innocent child. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[Umbelina]

Since this is an all spoilers allowed thread, including book talk, there are so many things I do want to see.

For examples, I REALLY want to see the resistance!  I want it to be more personal rather than just watching battles, focus on one of the hot pockets of resistance mentioned in the book, such as the Rocky Mountains area (they could easily sub in Canadian mountains for our Rockies.)  How are those people/fighters living?  I'd bet that many of the soldiers are women, for example, and I want to hear them talk openly, both men and women of course.  What's it like for the children there, growing up during war?

Also, this:
 

Quote

 

 

We've heard a lot about Mayday, but the buzzy resistance group mentioned repeatedly in the epilogue is the Underground Femaleroad, responsible for rescuing women out of Gilead. The epilogue claims these two groups were connected but had different missions. Mayday was "quasi-military," while the Underground Femaleroad was a "rescue operation." Since June's tapes are found in the UF safe house in Maine, it leads them to believe UF helped smuggle June out of the country (although the success of her escape remains up in the air). However, since there are no other diaries or recordings from that area, the leaders and/or participants of this group may have been discovered by the Eyes and arrested.

 

I'm all for showing women with power of any kind, and still using it.

More ideas in this article:

https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Handmaid-Tale-Book-Epilogue-Show-43806412

Edited June 15, 2018 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

Aside from everything else, I have a hard time believing all of the key members of the cast only want to do one role for 10 years.  By year four, most series hit a high peak and then fall off, and I think the actors, no matter how cool it is to be working, get bored and want to do other roles.

So I have hope this is going to be a four year show, five at the max, and that will include at least an entire season of "after Gilead falls."

After this season, I'm more than ready for the revolution, even though I know Gilead phase two and phase three "gets worse for the women."  I'm willing to accept that, but I don't want to linger there too long.

ETA

I'm hoping the bombing is the catalyst for entering phase two, and that is covered by then end of this season and the beginning of the next.  I certainly hope by the end of season 4 we've entered phase three of Gilead, which yes, will be even more horrible for the women, but one season of that is more than enough, with plenty of world involvement and Mayday and the Underground Female Railroad, and finally?  Revolution and Gilead being overthrown starting at the end of season 4.  Season five, continue that, and then show us what happens to everyone after Gilead is finally eliminated.

I love this show, but even then?  I don't think I can stand 10 years of this.  I would probably check out, and come back only when Gilead does fall.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Umbelina