S12.E19: True North

[Danielg342]

Quote

The BAU is called after three victims are found tied to stakes in the Arizona desert. Series star Joe Mantegna directed the episode.

Courtesy of SpoilerTV.

[autumnmountains]

I guess we put clips in the episode thread. Mods feel free to move this if need be:

Two new clips:

More of the cognitive interview

 

Case clip

[CrimeFan12]

Okay Reid devotees.  Who do you think the woman is?  I have no clue.

[ReidFan]

either a Scratch flunkie, or more likely, IMO, Cat Adams. That very much looked like Aubrey Plaza, with longer hair, to me. Although obviously, Scratch is involved somehow it's his MO, not hers. He must've sold her on his plan.

 

ETA: Matthew was astounding in this episode. He ran the gambit from guilt, despondence, pretty much giving up to hopeful resolve and Reid's stalwart self right at the end. I was so heartened, after the last six weeks of heartbreak.

Edited April 6, 2017 by ReidFan

[Danielg342]

Well...the case was kind of intriguing. I thought it had a real chance to be novel since the UnSub actually "accomplished" his mission, unlike other "mission-oriented guys" who were caught at the last moment.

Oh, and Reid's scrambled mind was kind of fun. I wonder if that really was Cat.

...but...it was still kind of dull. I can't put my finger on it, but it didn't grip me like it should have.

So...C.

[CrimeFan12]

18 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

either a Scratch flunkie, or more likely, IMO, Cat Adams. That very much looked like Aubrey Plaza, with longer hair, to me. Although obviously, Scratch is involved somehow it's his MO, not hers. He must've sold her on his plan.

 

ETA: Matthew was astounding in this episode. He ran the gambit from guilt, despondence, pretty much giving up to hopeful resolve and Reid's stalwart self right at the end. I was so heartened, after the last six weeks of heartbreak.

I think she might be too obvious.

[normasm]

In the blurryness, she looked like Maeve. Of course, she couldn't be, but Scratch might monkey with Reid that much, the sicko.

[ReidFan]

maybe it was Bodhi Elfman in Maeve's wig......

[CrimeFan12]

Down to the painted fingernails...lol?

[JMO]

NRF, except for what was already in the sneak peeks. I never seem to care for Bruce Zimmerman episodes. 

And I truly am not interested in the idea of Cat Adams being involved in Reid's case.

Speaking of Reid--- the  episode spent way too little time on the guy going through the existential crisis.  

[Danielg342]

Maeve has an evil twin?

[Willowy]

Eviler twin, Daniel.

[secnarf]

I was thoroughly annoyed with how quickly they jumped to Scratch in the first place, so I'd be glad if this new woman has nothing to do with him.

I wish there was some follow up on the drug storyline from last week. I was mildly interested in what happened there. The rest of this arc - and the cases of the week - are really not doing anything for me. And I continue to dislike Rossi taking over as team leader, since they're obviously not using it as a source of conflict. Can't have any team members disagreeing with each other. It was slightly more forgivable this week with Emily gone, but seriously Emily, is there a reason this conversation with Interpol had to be in person?!

[Willowy]

It's too late in the game for it to be anyone other than Cat. I'm holding firm onto my theory now and anybody wanna take bets? :P

Man, 3 weeks.

Sucks.

[CrimeFan12]

9 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I was thoroughly annoyed with how quickly they jumped to Scratch in the first place, so I'd be glad if this new woman has nothing to do with him.

I wish there was some follow up on the drug storyline from last week. I was mildly interested in what happened there. The rest of this arc - and the cases of the week - are really not doing anything for me. And I continue to dislike Rossi taking over as team leader, since they're obviously not using it as a source of conflict. Can't have any team members disagreeing with each other. It was slightly more forgivable this week with Emily gone, but seriously Emily, is there a reason this conversation with Interpol had to be in person?!

Because Paget wasn't fully available for the episode.  She was working on Another Period at the time this episode was filmed.  They had to make best use of the time they had her instead of just cutting her out of the episode completely.

Edited April 6, 2017 by CrimeFan12
Got carried away with the word available in one sentence.

[Danielg342]

4 minutes ago, secnarf said:

but seriously Emily, is there a reason this conversation with Interpol had to be in person?!

...and why that conversation had to happen offscreen?

[Willowy]

I'm feeling like they don't want to show us all the cards just yet. Em's doing something with Interpol, Stephen's doing something with... BAP? Not sure what he's got going on, and the info we have on Shemar's return says something like "he brings in a big clue to help Reid's case"... which would lend itself to Morgan working on it at least a short time prior to his return. 

I was put off by JJ's total immersion in the sundial case. I want her to be off her game and visibly fraught by Reid's situation EVERY EPISODE. Did she even mention him tonight?

[mertensia]

Couldn't they have made a fake saguaro or two? Seriously, I live in Tucson. Saguaros are everywhere. Especially at Saguaro National Park. 

Also, Tucson has a PAC-12 university which is noted for-of all things-making observatory telescopes mirrors; I don't know why they acted like going to college was a rare thing and the equivalent of leaving a town with a,population of 150.

[roamyn]

I just watched S11 Entropy w/Cat (I'm a newbie binge watching and currently on S5).

I think it's a good posit that Cat is behind Reid's troubles.  At the end of 'Entropy' she says ...."I'll remember you, but you won't remember me."  Her exacting revenge makes sense if Cat escaped or got off the charges.

[Aethera]

Reminder: Please don't post spoilers on future episodes in the current episode thread, based on info from the internet. I've moved a spoilery post to the spoilers thread :)

[R3volver]

11 hours ago, Willowy said:

I'm feeling like they don't want to show us all the cards just yet. Em's doing something with Interpol, Stephen's doing something with... BAP? Not sure what he's got going on, and the info we have on Shemar's return says something like "he brings in a big clue to help Reid's case"... which would lend itself to Morgan working on it at least a short time prior to his return. 

I was put off by JJ's total immersion in the sundial case. I want her to be off her game and visibly fraught by Reid's situation EVERY EPISODE. Did she even mention him tonight?

 

Me too.  I guess she did look sad for a moment when Garcia mentioned missing him, but that's about it.

[ReidFan]

forgot to mention it earlier (probably because, well *blush* obviously, my primary focus is Reid) but I though Aisha did a marvelous job in this one too. The scene with Emily at the beginning "I'll pack my stethoscope", knowing her role. And doing that, drawing Reid out, encouraging him to focus, almost goading him (maybe goading isn't the right word. Prodding? knowing he wants to clear his name) into wanting to do another cognitive and get past whatever it is he's blocking mentally. And the breakthrough. Finally. Well done. I liked (perhaps it's a clue?) the way present Reid scratched at his face as he recalled memory Reid being drugged. And the way they had him finally focus on who, only to have that vision blur and become.. who?

some screengrabs:

 

who he saw first

who it blurred into...

an earring. definitely not Scratch

hmmm who is that?!

[Willowy]

NICE captures!

[normasm]

Yeah, Riff, I saw the earring the second time around. And the red or blond long hair. 

[Kara101]

I sort of hope it's not cat. I don't know, I just want something more fresh if that makes sense.

[Willowy]

Both Cat or Elle are cool choices. It will have to be someone that will resonate emotionally. A new person coming into the mix at this point wouldn't make sense, and we'd never connect or respond to them like we would with a previously encountered character. We've all been through the ringer with Reid, and if the payoff is some stranger? I can see that falling completely flat. 

Let's hope they learned their lesson with bringing in people we didn't know with 200. Askari who? Where's our team? Who cares about THIS guy?

[Mislav]

If it's Elle, I called it first. Just sayin'.

[ReidGirl]

I can not wait 3 weeks. I am too excited about the outcome. I do hope for an amazing finale and I can only hope Reid plays a key role with support from his team members.

[Kelda Feegle]

PhD or MD the difference is a technicality had me and the OH laughing uncontrollably - he's an MD and I have the PhD and we make a huge deal out of the difference (here in Aus a medical Doctor is only granted that title as a courtesy as their degree is not the same level as the PhD which is the 'real' Doctor - a fact that I impress on the OH at every opportunity hehe)

[normasm]

In the psychiatric community, is the difference that pronounced, though? Yes, a psychiatrist has to go through medical school and a residency, etc., but a psychologist gets a PhD in Psychology. With a specialty, as Tara has, in forensic Psychology. Wasn't she seen interviewing serial killers to build a database on the psychology behind serial killing? Wouldn't she be qualified to be someone's doctor? True, it was clumsily expressed, as many true science thing are on this show, but, Tara actually could be Reid's doctor.

[BooksRule]

I thought it was strange that they totally dismissed the possibility that the unsub could have been a member of the desert cult that Garcia mentioned.  Just because she said that they were pacifists and wouldn't even eat carrots because they grew in the ground (which apparently seemed to be definite proof that no one in the group would ever hurt a person), doesn't mean that there could have been a member who went rogue and was killing people he (or she) thought was destroying 'mother nature' or something.  I'm sure that's not the first time that's happened.  

Would Interpol actually put Scratch on their 'watch list' just because Spencer said he saw him in the hotel room?  A drugged-at-the-time, can't-trust-his-memory Spencer? 

Edited April 7, 2017 by BooksRule

[secnarf]

13 minutes ago, normasm said:

In the psychiatric community, is the difference that pronounced, though? Yes, a psychiatrist has to go through medical school and a residency, etc., but a psychologist gets a PhD in Psychology. With a specialty, as Tara has, in forensic Psychology. Wasn't she seen interviewing serial killers to build a database on the psychology behind serial killing? Wouldn't she be qualified to be someone's doctor? True, it was clumsily expressed, as many true science thing are on this show, but, Tara actually could be Reid's doctor.

I don't know how it works in the US, but where I live, a psychologist is not a medical doctor - one of the main differences in practice is that a psychologist cannot prescribe medication. A psychologist (or anybody else) can not legally identify or misrepresent themselves as an MD - it is a protected title.

[PMPA]

2 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I don't know how it works in the US, but where I live, a psychologist is not a medical doctor - one of the main differences in practice is that a psychologist cannot prescribe medication. A psychologist (or anybody else) can not legally identify or misrepresent themselves as an MD - it is a protected title.

That is correct.  We perhaps live on the same side of the world.  Lots of folks get the title of 'Dr', but they are not medical doctors.  Usually a family medical doctor would have the letters 'GP' (General Practicioner) after their name.  Other medical doctors would have letters which would indicate their medical specialisation and letters indicating that they were members of medical council etc.  And yes, a psychiatrist is permitted to prescribe medication, a psychologist, pyschotherapist etc is not.

[Kara101]

Wouldn't a psychologist with a Phd be considered a "therapist" or a "counselor" or something? But maybe they are colloquially called Dr by some people.

[PMPA]

33 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

Wouldn't a psychologist with a Phd be considered a "therapist" or a "counselor" or something? But maybe they are colloquially called Dr by some people.

It might be different in regions.  Here you do not need a Phd to be considered or to work as a "therapist" or "counselor".  In fact alot who practice as either probably do not have anything like that level.  That in itself can be problematic...but that's for another discussion.

If I had a Phd, I can use the title Dr, but as I said, a medical doctor would have other letters following their name to distinguish their title from that of an academic.  I think in the US the letters M.D are used???  I get what you are saying, that some might call a Psychologist 'Dr', and indeed if they had a Phd, they would be entitled to use that term, but they are not medically qualified and the title refers to their education. However a Psychiatrist is medically qualified and so is entitled to use the term Dr, Phd or otherwise.  I have a 1st cousin who is one of the top in this field (not surprising, knowing our family that thats the career he would take....lol), but he had to do his 7/8 years medical training first, before another 2 or 3 in his specialisation of Psychiatary.

Sorry If I totally misunderstood your comment.  

[normasm]

No, a psychologist is not an MD type of doctor. But they can be licenced therapists, and that would be the way Tara would have had Reid as her actual patient. In the real world. Tara's letters would be Tara Lewis, PhD, and probably some specialty designated letters after that. Not Tara Leiws, MD, etc. 

Not all psychologists are therapists, but some are. Tara is a forensic psychologist, and does her discipline for research purposes, not therapy. 

[PMPA]

4 minutes ago, normasm said:

No, a psychologist is not an MD type of doctor. But they can be licenced therapists, and that would be the way Tara would have had Reid as her actual patient. In the real world. Tara's letters would be Tara Lewis, PhD, and probably some specialty designated letters after that. Not Tara Leiws, MD, etc. 

Not all psychologists are therapists, but some are. Tara is a forensic psychologist, and does her discipline for research purposes, not therapy. 

True that.  Problem we have here is that there are alot of people who do online courses, maybe only 6 weeks long and are suddenly practicising 'therapists', and so sometimes the term is thrown around very loosely...bad, very bad. 

[Mislav]

Isn't Cat in prison though? How could have she personally murdered that doctor and framed Reid?

[Danielg342]

4 hours ago, Mislav said:

Isn't Cat in prison though? How could have she personally murdered that doctor and framed Reid?

Scratch did release 13 serial killers after "The Storm". 10, by my count, have been caught (8 before S12, "The Crimson King" and "Profiling 202"), so there are three left. We never learned their identities, so who they could be is still open.

[ReidFan]

I was hoping we'd see Lance Hendriksen (Chaz Montolo) and/or Frances Fisher (Antonia Slade) again, that they'd be among those escapees. But it seems unlikely, given that Montolo wanted to destroy Morgan and Slade was more interested in targeting Hotch.

I also would've loved seeing Jackson Browne again but Adam/Amanda would be in an institution, not a jail so that's kinda out too.

Or Owen Savage. 

*sniffle* or Nathan Harris, but that's impossible.

[Willowy]

Jackson Rathbone played Adam, but hey, I wouldn't mind seeing Jackson Browne, either! ;)

[Autistic Queer]

On 06/04/2017 at 4:24 AM, Willowy said:

I was put off by JJ's total immersion in the sundial case. I want her to be off her game and visibly fraught by Reid's situation EVERY EPISODE. Did she even mention him tonight?

That's exactly what I'd expect from JJ, I think it works that she gives the case complete focus. I think she's shown in the past she can compartmentalise very well. My head canon is she gets back and grills whoever has been to see him and then bend Will's ear about it. 

I remember early in the season there were complaints the team was too large, maybe this is why. You're losing two or three team members every week to the Reid side of things. They need everyone to have parallel storylines. 

I thought the case of the week was decent, but for a change preferred the Reid side, okay so I preferred the Tara parts. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by AutisticSpoonie

[R3volver]

1 hour ago, AutisticSpoonie said:

That's exactly what I'd expect from JJ, I think it works that she gives the case complete focus. I think she's shown in the past she can compartmentalise very well. My head canon is she gets back and grills whoever has been to see him and then bend Will's ear about it. 

I remember early in the season there were complaints the team was too large, maybe this is why. You're losing two or three team members every week to the Reid side of things. They need everyone to have parallel storylines. 

I thought the case of the week was decent, but for a change preferred the Reid side, okay so I preferred the Tara parts. 

 

I remember in Revelations(I think it was) JJ asked Emily how she can compartmentalize so well or something of that sort.  But it's entirely possible she's learned those skills over the years, especially now being a profiler.

I think some episodes did a good job showing her feelings without focusing on them too much - like showing her staring at the empty chair next to her or reactions to other people talking about the situation.

[Hotchgirl18]

So why do they have Lindsey Vaughan coming back? 

[normasm]

Your guess is as good as mine. Although, there have been children of unsubs I have thought might grow up to be unsubs themselves (I know Lindsey's dad Jack wasn't that episode's unsub, but he had been a bad dude, which is why they were in wit-sec). Especially that kid (David?) from In Name and Blood. He knew his dad was killing the women he made David lure, but at the last, David had voluntarily brought home the nurse without prompting. At 7 years of age. Talk about early warping. He'd also be about 18 now...

Edited April 8, 2017 by normasm

[UncleChuck]

Quote

here in Aus a medical Doctor is only granted that title as a courtesy as their degree is not the same level as the PhD which is the 'real' Doctor - a fact that I impress on the OH at every opportunity hehe)

My sister, (in Oklahoma) was a University Professor and held her Ph.D. for several years before our younger brother received his M.D.  I don't remember a family gathering when she didn't explain that Doctors of Philosophy throughout history have been the REAL "doctors" and the degree M.D. was (in her opinion) primarily a certificate from a glorified trade school.

I never understood why her panties were in such a bunch about this, because in my family there are several M.D.s and PhDs and no one else cares which "doctor" is which...

However, when I had some chest pains on a family vacation one year--I did NOT confer with any of the PhDs--real or not.

[ReidFan]

so Twitter is awash with thoughts that the woman was 

Spoiler

Gia Mantegna's 'Lindsey Vaughn' 

not 

Spoiler

Aubrey Plaza's 'Cat Adams'.

and given what Joe said on twitter, I suppose that's a possibility too. 

My question is, though, no matter who the woman was, *why* was she not wearing the protective gas mask while spraying Reid with the drugs. Or, in the early part of the cognitive as he recognised him first, why wasn't Scratch wearing the mask?  Leads me to think that the woman, no matter who it is, is actually also under Scratch's influence.

thoughts? or am I nuts?  (man, I gotta stop leaving those openings)

[SSAHotchner]

I am not at all happy about them bringing that character back. These writers obviously don't care whether what they do makes sense. I just think it's nepotism and indulgence. "Hey, let's bring Joe's daughter back!" I wouldn't mind if they wanted to give her another role but it's a stretch to make her previous character work in a current episode. 

[Hotchgirl18]

So how does Joe feel about his daughter being an unsub? Lol.

[normasm]

Bet he loves it, if it furthers her career.