American Gods By Neil Gaiman: The Book

[jeansheridan]

Unlike a book there is no accounting for chemistry on screen.  When it happens it is gold and I suspect Fuller knows it.  He clearly loves these two based on his post ep comments.   

I am a bit bummed we aren't getting to Lakeside this season.  That's my favorite part ofShadow's  story.

[WatchrTina]

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed the final episode of season 1 but I am infuriated that it is the final episode and now we have to wait a year.  We didn't even make it all the way to The House on the Rock!  They are really dragging this out.  

On one hand I'm fine with that -- it means that even as a reader I have the opportunity to be surprised with where the story takes me.  But on the other hand I think they just broke a fundamental rule of the fantasy genre by going WAY off book with Easter's blight.

With most fantasy books the conceit is that all this fantastical stuff actually happens in the real world that we inhabit but it's masked -- hidden behind-the-scenes so that most people never hear about it.  The fantastical events they describe certainly aren't supposed to be the top story on the news (unlike in Science Fiction where alien invasions are a common event.) But Easter causing a world-wide blight -- that would be noticed.  They've referred to VERY current events (ISIS knocking down temples) in the series so that puts the time-table of the show firmly in the here-and-now.  As such, I think they broke the rules of the game by introducing Easter's huge blight in the heartland of America (I'm assuming it's not world-wide though we could see that its impact had reached The House on the Rock in the final scene). If something like that happened in the world in which we all live, we would have heard about it, and we haven't.

I'm curious to see how they resolve Easter's actions (which do not happen in the book.)  I'm afraid she'll be forced to suddenly un-do it (a Star Trek-like "reset") and then Media and her minions will make up a cover story that comes down to telling the public "you didn't see what you thought you saw." No one is going to suddenly start worshiping Ostara in response to the world-wide blight -- not if Media and all the other new gods block the very mention of her name.  So I can't figure where this off-book plot line is going.

So as much as I LOVED Ostara getting her old god on and showing her power, I'm afraid they may have written themselves into a corner.  How are they going to keep the war between the old gods and the new secret from the rest of us when something that major goes down?

[jeansheridan]

Why do they want to keep it a secret?  I have never heard that "rule" of fantasy.  Humans have a great capacity for explaining weird things away.  But I agree that Media will come up with an awesome cover story.

 

I resent the lack of time and development Shadow is getting.  I am more interested in Laura's journey which is wrong.  Then again I do love seeing Laura face down various gods with a hubris of 21st century human.  

I love Shadow in the book.  I love his cool and calm and decency.  His practical and sensible nature.  I miss that Shadow.  The actor is lovely.  He could do it if the writing and time were there.

[tennisgurl]

To me, the worst part of the season was the short length. This isn't a show/book that is super heavy on having a quick plot, but I was disappointed that we only had eight episodes per season this year, when there is clearly so much to do with the premise alone, let alone the actual plot. I wanted to at least get to House on the Rock this season, and we are hardly even on our way! But, I guess when my least favorite thing about a show is that it ends to soon, that's a pretty solid point in its favor.

As far as differences, I think the changes made to the show from the book worked out pretty well. I liked the expanded focus on the supporting/minor characters, especially with Mad Sweeny and the Salim/Jinn plot, because I thought those were really interesting stories and characters, and that they could be easily expanded. I also like the reimagining of Laura to give her some more character development, and more to do besides be Shadows dead wife and killing people. Granted, I think they might have gone a little too far in making her unlikable/giving her screen time, but I'm not complaining. I think Shadow is a bit different than he was in the book, and I do wish we had gotten more development from him here, but, really, a lot of the really good Shadow stuff happens later in the book, so I can wait. And I don't mind them making him a bit more emotional than in the book. Book Shadow was so stoic and accepting of everything going on around him, he could easily become a cypher without his narration we get in the book, and it could make him unrelatable to the audience. He is still basically the same guy, just a bit out expressive.

The show definitely nails the basic themes of the book (American identity, belief, immigrant stories, etc.), and I enjoyed some of the ways its expanded on it, but I'm also not as thrilled with some of the other ways it expanded. Like, the book definitely had lessons to be taught, but it was all pretty subtle. I never really felt like Gaimon was lecturing us about his thoughts on the issues he was bringing up, he was just showing us stuff that happened, and asking us to make judgements. The show can be subtle when it wants to be, but is frequently doesn't want to be, so we get the entire Vulcan episode (in which you can practically see the writers in the background telling us that gun culture is bad, that Christians who hate immigrants are hypocrites, etc.) or the whole lecture in the last episode about how men will always tear down powerful woman. Granted, those aren't BAD lessons to use on your show, and its all consistent with what was already in the book, it just took what was subtle in the book, and added some serious caps lock to them. Like, I feel like if Vulcan was in the book, he would still own an evil gun factory where he allows faulty maintenance to kill workers as sacrifices, and has gone from an old god of the forge to a new god of guns who gets power from gun culture, but he wouldn't also be the head of a Nazi style gun cult in the middle of rural America, who shoot off their guns at funerals and stuff. Granted, it does fit the more surreal style of the show, but subtle it was not.

Meh, minor complaints. The casting was perfect, I love how much the show has committed to the weirdness of the book (if anything, its even weirder!), and I still love the themes and basic ideas, and they clearly care a lot about those themes and ideas, and the source material. It really is just what I wanted from this adaptation. So, when can I see House on the Rock?!?!

[ombre]

40 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Like, I feel like if Vulcan was in the book, he would still own an evil gun factory where he allows faulty maintenance to kill workers as sacrifices, and has gone from an old god of the forge to a new god of guns who gets power from gun culture, but he wouldn't also be the head of a Nazi style gun cult in the middle of rural America, who shoot off their guns at funerals and stuff. Granted, it does fit the more surreal style of the show, but subtle it was not.

I think that was the point they were going for - that guns aren't necessarily bad, but that worship of them and extreme tribalism is.  A very delicate line to walk, particularly in a time where increased polarization makes it very hard to see a middle ground of any kind.

The sacrifice-by faulty-maintenance was a particularly effective observation, for me.  We have a very high tolerance for this kind of sacrifice to our modern gods.  I'm sure we sacrifice far more people per capita now through asthma and environmental cancers than we ever did through explicit human sacrifice.

[jeansheridan]

On 6/19/2017 at 1:21 PM, tennisgurl said:

Book Shadow was so stoic and accepting of everything going on around him, he could easily become a cypher without his narration we get in the book, and it could make him unrelatable to the audience.

I totally appreciate they needed to make him more talkative and expressive but where is the Shadow with a mother who works in the foreign service?  The Shadow who read voraciously as a child?  He had a wandering childhood and it explains so much about him.  

Also they're not doing great at setting up his dreams.  They just kind of happen.  

I am nitpicking because I think Fuller is capable of this detail.  He read the book closely.  There is so much Laura detail.  The scene when Laura looks through the window at her family is a throwaway moment in the book meant to display Shadow's growing power.  In the show you don't get that impression at all. And they spent time and money filming that moment so they knew it mattered but seemed to forget why.

On 6/19/2017 at 2:08 PM, ombre said:

The sacrifice-by faulty-maintenance was a particularly effective observation, for me.  We have a very high tolerance for this kind of sacrifice to our modern gods.  I'm sure we sacrifice far more people per capita now through asthma and environmental cancers than we ever did through explicit human sacrifice.

A cool and unsettling observation.  But human sacrifice seems so personal!   Intentional.  I wonder if unknowing sacrifice has the same power boost.

On 6/19/2017 at 1:21 PM, tennisgurl said:

Like, I feel like if Vulcan was in the book,

I so wish they had avoided the Greek and Roman gods for the same reason Gaiman did.  Too obvious, too easy.

[starri]

Vulcan was added at Gaiman's request/suggestion.

He didn't use Greek and Roman gods in the book not because they were too easy, but because he couldn't find a reason why they would be here.  He decided to use anyone he could find historical or pseudohistorical evidence for believers coming to America.  The Norse gods came with the Vikings, and there are some conspiracy theories about Egyptians made it here too, so their pantheon is represented.  There's nothing like that for the Romans or Greeks, so by the time we know they got here, they wouldn't be anything other than Christian, so they were out.

However, he later found a theory where some Roman pottery was found where it shouldn't have been, and in the anniversary edition where he restored some cut material, has a character appear who is not named, but heavily implied to be Mercury.

[scarynikki12]

The Founding Fathers were heavily influenced by Greece and Rome, so that would be a simple way bring them over. 

That said I think only having Vulcan represent Roman or Greek gods (so far) is smart because he isn't as well known. Bring in the big ones and they'd have to explain why they aren't challenging Odin as the leader. 

[WatchrTina]

19 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

The Founding Fathers were heavily influenced by Greece and Rome, so that would be a simple way bring them over. 

The founding fathers were influenced by Greece and Rome but they didn't believe in Zeus and Athena and Dionysus and all the rest.  They studied Greek and Roman history, and ancient Greek democracy influenced the American constitution, but that's it.  I don't think anyone in America was making genuine, serious sacrifices to Greek or Roman gods.  There are many buildings in Amercial that look like Greek temples but they aren't really temples.  An educated American might jokingly toast Dionysus (god of wine) in appreciation of a particularly good vintage, but there wouldn't be any serious belief behind the gesture.  The same is true of the names of Greek gods that are brought up during invocations and initiations into secret societies. I'm aware of one major university sorority that invokes Demeter and Persephone during its initiation rituals, but there is no real belief behind it.  Mad Sweeney, on the other hand, ended up in America because Essie McGowan and others believed in him.

Edited June 24, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Bruinsfan]

Does anyone anywhere sincerely believe in the Greco-Roman gods anymore? I've heard of some very small groups in Greece that are attempting a revival of the Hellenic religion(s), but that movement is so recent I get the impression it's more a symbols-of-our-ancestors'-culture thing rather than people praying to Athena or Zeus with the assumption that there's actually something listening.

[scarynikki12]

They need sacrifice and we know time and attention qualify. That's how Media and Technology became gods. It's not like people are praying to them. We just devote our time and attention and that feeds their power.

Also it only takes one with minimum criteria. Anansi showed up after one man prayed to him, Laura got a visit from Anubis because of her job, and lesser known Roman god Vulcan made it here just fine, so I don't think it's at all far fetched that the famous Greek and Roman gods made it here as well. All they need are the Classics majors who spend hours studying them and they retain some relevance and power. 

[wilnil]

5 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

All [the Greco-Roman gods] need are the Classics majors who spend hours studying them and they retain some relevance and power. 

Not to mention the extra boost they'd get when Marvel's "Thor" franchise hit the big screen.

[rollacoaster]

Ah! Speaking of boosts from comic book movie franchises: Wonder Woman! Her culture is Greek god focused! Rick Riordan's book series have no doubt given them a boost of visibility as well.  Roman, Egyptian, and now Norse deities, too.

[Arynm]

On 6/27/2017 at 4:50 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Also it only takes one with minimum criteria. Anansi showed up after one man prayed to him, Laura got a visit from Anubis because of her job, and lesser known Roman god Vulcan made it here just fine, so I don't think it's at all far fetched that the famous Greek and Roman gods made it here as well. All they need are the Classics majors who spend hours studying them and they retain some relevance and power

Lets not forget the Percy Jackson series, which has single-handedly brought the Greek/Roman Gods to countless schoolchildren in the US. And adults who like a good story if I am being honest. The author, Rick Riordan also has series about the Egyptian and most recently Norse. I know much more about these Gods and my guess is millions of others do as well.

[vavera4ka]

The book is as slow moving and "scattered" as the show. That's its charm.

I'm actually curious if they stick to the pace in the book. Cause if they do, Holly War won't happen for few seasons LOL

It's a road trip/telling stories type of book. And so far so is the show. But I understand that it doesn't work for TV, especially if there are breaks in between episodes, and then long breaks in between seasons. So it might change to adapt to Media. ;)

[raven]

On 6/23/2017 at 9:11 AM, jeansheridan said:

I totally appreciate they needed to make him more talkative and expressive but where is the Shadow with a mother who works in the foreign service?  The Shadow who read voraciously as a child?  He had a wandering childhood and it explains so much about him.  

Book Shadow was an interesting guy.  Show Shadow, not so much.  Granted they may get more into that in S2, and I appreciate Laura's role being fleshed out, since in the book she just sort of shows up at opportune moments and of course has no interaction with Mad Sweeney at all and luckily the show interactions of the two are great.

I would like to see more Shadow/Wednesday, and Wednesday's tales of cons gone by.  We have the bank con, but that was a while ago and IMO needed some of Wednesday's stories to make the most of it.    Shadow realizes that the successful cons needed to be two partners, which makes one wonder who that was.  

I use Wednesday's name because with the Odin reveal on the show, I feel we're going to move quickly to the House on the Rock and possibly not get much more into the road trips, which were the heart of the book IMO.  The Shadow/Wednesday adventures made me believe in their connection; in the show, I wonder why Shadow is still with him, maybe just the money.  I don't feel the affection that Shadow does for him, the affection and anger at Wednesday's death which makes Shadow's sacrifice on the tree believable.  Of course the show could be getting there in a totally different way but I should at least feel a connection between the two by now, which I don't.

[hnygrl]

I was reading an interview with the show's creators (I apologize, can't find it now) and they had the show mapped out for like 4 or 5 seasons. They said it's gonna be awhile before we get to the battle, so next season's not going to be it. They have a lot more ground to cover first.

After reading the book again, for like the third time, I finally got it. This whole thing,  the war, shadow, laura, everything, is just one long con between Odin and Loki to bring Odin back to full power. It's really interesting how Shadow, SHADOW mind you,  with deadwife, stopped it.  Now I have to read it again.  

Everybody underestimated Shadow, counting on his quiet (translated stupid) acceptance of any and everything to keep him in the dark and not asking the right questions. Everybody. It didn't work because Shadow was more "woke" than they gave him credit for being, and it seems like (I'll have to check on this) the other "tertiary" gods did little things to wake him up and make him question.

Interesting. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out on screen, knowing what I now know....

[raven]

I re-read the book a few months ago and after finishing S2, whomever is running the show made the same mistake that Peter Jackson did when he filmed The Hobbit - they added a lot of extraneous, unnecessary stuff to what is really a fairly straightforward tale. 

The events at the House on the Rock are pretty much the end of the book and since the show was already there they had to skip over all of that and then add more "stuff" to justify the extra episodes.

American Gods is nearly 500 pages but it flows well IMO and S2 completely muddled everything.  Not sure I will be back for S3.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I read the book once, about a year ago. I thought it was good, not great. I remember the ending being kind of muddled. I can't argue with you that this 2nd season was a dud with only a few good moments. 

I liked the Wisconsin scenes in the book, so I'm looking forward to that. I'll be back for the 3rd season, but I really hope they do better.