Season 1 Talk

[AmandaPanda]

Discuss Season 1 here!

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As the school mourns the death of Hannah Baker, her friend Clay receives a box of tapes with messages she recorded before she committed suicide.

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by OnceSane

[AmandaPanda]

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Hannah makes friends with Jessica and Alex, two other new students. Justin doesn't show up at school, and Hannah's mother finds something troubling.

[AmandaPanda]

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Jealousy and gossip take a toll on Hannah's relationships. As Alex struggles with feelings of regret, the guys pressure Clay into getting drunk.

[AmandaPanda]

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Hannah thinks someone is stalking her and sets a trap. Hannah's mother confronts the principal, and Clay strikes back at someone who wronged Hannah. 

[AmandaPanda]

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Hannah and Clay connect at the school dance, but a crass rumor ruins the mood. Clay takes Courtney to visit Hannah's grave.

[AmandaPanda]

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Hannah's date on Valentine's Day doesn't go as planned. Alex gets in a big fight at school and has to face the honor board. 

[AmandaPanda]

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Another student sabotages Hannah during a class project. Clay's nightmares about Hannah spill over into the daytime.

[AmandaPanda]

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Inspired by a friend's poetry reading, Hannah pours her heart out. Tony confides in Clay about the night of Hannah's death. 

[AmandaPanda]

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Hannah witnesses a traumatic event at a summertime party. Clay tries to reason with Justin, and Marcus warns him that the worst is yet to come.

[AmandaPanda]

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A distraught Hannah gets a ride home from the party. Jessica's behavior grows increasingly erratic, and Clay learns the truth behind a tragedy. 

[AmandaPanda]

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Clay and Hannah grow closer. While Clay spends a heartbreaking night listening to his tape with Tony, tensions boil over at Bryce's house.

[AmandaPanda]

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Hannah winds up at a party after an argument with her parents. The students are served with subpoenas, and Justin wrestles with conflicting loyalties.

[AmandaPanda]

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Hannah seeks help from Mr. Porter, the school counselor. Clay plays the new tape for Tony and weighs what to do next.

[vendredi3]

This Clay kid is really getting on my nerves. He'd rather ride his bike across town to yell at Tony to give him answers instead of just, you know, LISTENING to the TAPES that are in his possession. Seriously, there's something like 13 hours of tapes. JUST LISTEN TO THEM. You know, maybe while you're grounded or something. Or while you're riding your bike so damn much.

At this point, I'm hoping for some great twist ending where Clay was really dead this whole time, and that gaping wound on his forehead that will never heal was symbolism for his death. And Tony is his guardian angel or something. I know it's more likely that the gaping wound is there to establish which time line we're in, but still, it bugs me.

[SnoGirl]

This episode broke my heart. Clay not telling his parents anything and crying in the shower was awful. I feel like my high school experience was such an anomaly, I was super introverted but still talked to my parents a lot. They knew everything. He's carrying such a burden, its hard to watch.

[absnow54]

This show is sort of toeing the Manic-Pixie-Dream-Girl line that was popular during the John Green era a little too hard, and the analog tape catalog being traded between teenagers in 2017 is a little much. You could have gotten away with it in 2007 when the book was written, because it was a plausible transition time when teens would have leftover Walkmens from the early-90's, or, more likely have a tape player in their car instead of a CD player.

 That said, this show's also got a Veronica Mars/noir element to it that I'm really digging. The kid playing Clay is doing an excellent job, although I'm really worried about his erratic bike riding all over town.

[ban1o]

Well this was a heavy show. Just finished it. 

 

I definitely liked it and I thought it's depiction of high school was realistic. You could feel how even little things affected Hannah and the pain she was going through. I just want to say I think Jessica deserved better. Although she was bitchy at times Hannah should have told her what happened when she was alive instead of over the tape for so many other people to here and letting her get manipulated by Justin and others. That was one problem I had with Hannah she put Justin on the tapes for letting Jessica get raped but she did the same thing? I mean she was right there too and there was nothing stopping her from telling Jessica. 

The suicide scene was scary I had to turn away. 

Is there going to be a season 2 because it ended with a lot of cliffhangers. Alex shooting himself. And Tyler has a gun. What is he going to do with it? What happened to Sheri after she told the truth? And will Bryce get what he deserves? What will Hannah's parents do after listening to the tapes?

I liked the overarching theme about rape culture and the effect it can have on girls. That was well done. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by ban1o

[ClareWalks]

Agree about the bike riding, I'm like "put on your helmet, Helmet!" Or at least watch where you're going, brah.

As for the episode, I liked it! Good start. I thought it was brought up to current day very well, with the picture being sent around and everything. I knew with her going down that slide in a skirt that that little fucker would pull some shit. I'm enjoying Clay and Tony a lot. So far so good.

[ban1o]

4 hours ago, absnow54 said:

This show is sort of toeing the Manic-Pixie-Dream-Girl line that was popular during the John Green era a little too hard, and the analog tape catalog being traded between teenagers in 2017 is a little much. You could have gotten away with it in 2007 when the book was written, because it was a plausible transition time when teens would have leftover Walkmens from the early-90's, or, more likely have a tape player in their car instead of a CD player.

 That said, this show's also got a Veronica Mars/noir element to it that I'm really digging. The kid playing Clay is doing an excellent job, although I'm really worried about his erratic bike riding all over town.

yeah 2007 it would be easier to get away with it but 2017 it's totally unrealistic. Like the show but my brother is 15 and probably doesn't even know what a casette players is. Like remember the characters in this were born in like the year 2000. 

[toogoodtobetrue]

I wondered if the show was hinting that Tyler had actually shot Alex and made it seem like a suicide-- he seemed to have pictures of the "13" people in his darkroom and took down Alex's picture as if he had taken him off his hit list. 

Otherwise this final episode was really strong. I'm 37 and it really got to me. All these kids deserved better (except Bryce) despite whatever behavior/action they may have displayed or taken. They're teenagers. 

I think Hannah did try to tell Jessica while she was alive, but, again... teenagers... can't expect them to communicate in the most mature ways. The Jessica rape scene and afterward were difficult to watch and I don't know what I would have done at age 16-17 if I had been in Hannah's shoes. 

I can't even begin to imagine how much more hurt Hannah's poor parents are going to feel after listening to the tapes. And it makes me so damn sad that teenagers (and adults, too, but especially teenagers) can't see any other way forward with their lives and so commit suicide. It's profoundly sad in a way that is indescribable with mere words and this show really drives that home.  

P.S. One concern I had throughout was that some despondent/hopeless teenager/kid will watch this series and decide to do something similar. I know the show is not a PSA, but it is in the Young Adult genre, technically, and I don't know if they showed that Hannah had other options that she just couldn't see-- yeah they showed that Clay really cared for her, but... it just wasn't enough. I'm not sure wha they could have done here to address that. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by toogoodtobetrue
Added thoughts

[ban1o]

On 4/1/2017 at 5:27 PM, toogoodtobetrue said:

 

P.S. One concern I had throughout was that some despondent/hopeless teenager/kid will watch this series and decide to do something similar. I know the show is not a PSA, but it is in the Young Adult genre, technically, and I don't know if they showed that Hannah had other options that she just couldn't see-- yeah they showed that Clay really cared for her, but... it just wasn't enough. I'm not sure wha they could have done here to address that. 

Yeah I've been thinking something similar. Also the suicide scene was just so graphic... I don't know how someone contemplating suicide would react to it. I almost feel like it romanticizes suicide in a way. They should have made it clear she had other options and what those were. 

Also I didn't expect it to be Alex who shot himself. Were Tyler and Justin distraction because Tyler bought had a  gun and justin had one too. I did think alex seemed suicidal the whole time. And I guess since his dad is a cop he had easy access to guns. 

[ban1o]

Good episode. Two things concerning Jessica getting raped. One. What was stopping Hannah from saying anything. This really bothered me. Even if she was too scared to stop the rape from happening she could have at least told Jessica after wards instead of on tape for everybody to hear.  This just made me feel like Hannah wasn't much better than Justin in that regard.

 

Second. I know the show isn't a PSA and Correct me if I'm wrong but Jessica had  little to no memory of what happened so Justin told her it was him that had slept with her when she was passed out drunk? That is still rape even if it was her boyfriend. I just wish the show would have made that more clear. But I know it isn't a PSA. 

 

And I agree it's annoying how slowly Clay got through the tapes lmao. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by ban1o

[ban1o]

lol Courtney bugs me so much. Even later in the show she bugged me worse. And how tf is a gril with gay dads so afraid of admitting she's gay . I didn't get her motivation. 

[Ikki]

4 hours ago, ban1o said:

That was one problem I had with Hannah she put Justin on the tapes for letting Jessica get raped but she did the same thing? I mean she was right there too and there was nothing stopping her from telling Jessica. 

Hannah pretty explicitly said she blamed herself for that as well. "This tape is about you and me, Justin." and "That girl had two chances that night, and we both let her down." I don't really see it as hypocritical when she holds herself accountable as well-- and while I don't think killing oneself is truly holding oneself accountable, it can certainly seem like it when one is in that mindset. 

She was clearly haunted by her inaction. Another quote from her on the tapes right after talking about what happened: "How do I live with that?"

[ban1o]

13 minutes ago, Ikki said:

Hannah pretty explicitly said she blamed herself for that as well. "This tape is about you and me, Justin." and "That girl had two chances that night, and we both let her down." I don't really see it as hypocritical when she holds herself accountable as well-- and while I don't think killing oneself is truly holding oneself accountable, it can certainly seem like it when one is in that mindset. 

She was clearly haunted by her inaction. Another quote from her on the tapes right after talking about what happened: "How do I live with that?"

Yeah your right actually Hannah did blame herself. I really disliked Jessica initially but by the end I just felt really sorry for her. Like for 90% of the show she was being manipulated and seemed confused and lost. And idk I guess I didn't really like how hannah put that on the tapes for 11 other people to hear. But Hannah did seem remorseful for what happened. 

Actually a lot of the characters who I hated initially I ended up feeling some sympathy for.  But I guess that was the purpose of the show. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by ban1o

[SnoGirl]

Wow. I feel like Alex, like him, I practically could not stop watching until I listened to all of Hannah's tapes. What an awful entanged mess.

What an ending. I need to get my book out and reread the ending. The fallout from Hannah's tapes are going to be explosive on the show.

The amount of guns in teens hands during this episode was unreal. Justin and Alex both had access but Tyler? He built himself quite the arsenal.

I assumed the pictures at the end of his scene was his hit list. Alex was taken off because he stood up for Tyler. Even Clay isnt innocent here, he took that one picture of Tyler. I'm wondering if we're supposed to assume that there's going to be a school shooting in season two, or an arc to save Tyler from his fate of being a school shooter. It's an interesting take because he and Hannah were both bullied. The show is showing us two different outcomes from intense school bullying.

I think Hannah broke everyone with her tapes like they broke her. The sucide scene was just awful. I literally couldn't watch. So much blood in the tub. Her parents reactions, they broke my heart. Hannah talks about their fights right, on the tapes? I dont know if its going to be better that they know.

I wish other book adaptations were handled with such care. I would watch every one of my favorite books on Netflix because between this and A Series of Unfortunate Events, I am blown away.

[ban1o]

Yeah I did really feel for Alex. Actually thinking back he was clearly suicidal the whole time. He had no friends, getting into a fight with that kid, pulling out of school activities. The scene where he randomly started speeding in the car with the boys. And although he was kind of a jerk I truly felt bad for him. All he did was make a list. He had a lot of toxic masculinity at his home from his dad and bother and nowhere to express his emotion. And he truly loved Jessica who wouldn't take him back and he messed up the only true friendships he had. 

And yeah it def seems they are setting up Tyler to be a school shooter. They really did a lot of setting up for season 2. I kind of want to see it. Too many unfinished storylines. I also want to see what happens to Justin and especially Jessica. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by ban1o

[Ikki]

Don't forget that scene where he jumped into the pool. I thought that was an attempt right there.

[ban1o]

2 minutes ago, Ikki said:

Don't forget that scene where he jumped into the pool. I thought that was an attempt right there.

Yes this too.  Iforgot. You could just feel he was hurting the whole time. I don't know why I didn't expect him to be the one who shot himself I guess their red herrings worked on me lol. I hope he survived. 

Really the only characters I personally outright disliked were Courtney, Marcus and obviously Bryce. 

[Calamity Jane]

Watched 'em all - reminiscent of American Crime Story season about a rape in a high school, with a dash of It's a Wonderful Life, plus every teen drama ever made, deeply moving in some places, oddly irritating in others, but it was impossible to take my eyes off of.  I can agree with reviewers who think it was too long - so much filler and so much of poor old Clay staring bemusedly into the distance, but it was completely addictive.  Although the door is open for Season 2, I don't know if I would watch it.  Without Hannah, the others are not sympathetic enough to keep me going for 13 hours, all of Clay's positive qualities notwithstanding.  Maybe I'll care more about the unresolved issues left after I've had time to process it all more.  I'm glad I'm retired so I could watch straight through.  

[STFUFrank]

4 hours ago, ban1o said:

lol Courtney bugs me so much. Even later in the show she bugged me worse. And how tf is a gril with gay dads so afraid of admitting she's gay . I didn't get her motivation. 

Quite possibly because there are still people out there who think and feel gay people raising children will make that child gay. Maybe that was something she heard a lot growing up from other kids and she just internalized it.

[Ikki]

She did say that people thinking that was one of her worries. She also talked about how she's seen the cap her dad's have been put through. Just because someone has gay parents doesn't automatically mean they have an easy path toward self-acceptance and coming out. It certainly doesn't mean they would be fine with being outed.

[Lady Calypso]

This was a rough series to watch. It had a lot of issues, such as trying to fill up time for all thirteen episodes, but they got the emotional resonance down. They really found a way to get me to feel for 90% of the characters. They tried for others, such as Courtney and Marcus, but I could never care for them or Bryce. There were also many moments that I just couldn't watch, which doesn't happen often with a show. Hannah and Jessica's rapes were two examples. The suicide scene was a solid third. 

I did think that Justin had been the one to shoot himself from the last episode, but Alex makes total sense. He's shown the signs all season, with his guilt eating away at him but being too afraid to speak up, to his dangerous activities, to his attempt many episodes ago in Bryce's pool. They really showed almost all of the kids having varying reactions to Hannah's death and their reactions to her tapes. 

Hannah was such an interesting and complex character that I don't know if season 2 will be the same without her. Maybe it would have been better to have wrapped things up and left it as a mini series. I get that there'll definitely be a season 2 because Netflix renews pretty much all of their original content, but I don't know whether a season-less Hannah with suffice. Or maybe it'll be a success. They certainly have a story with Tyler there. He was bullied about as bad as Hannah, so it's interesting that they'll go another route with him, a much more dangerous one. Not even Clay was nice to Tyler and I was not surprised with his ending at all. I am surprised he readily took down Alex's photo, only because that one moment of standing up for him was just that--a moment surrounded by other instances of Alex sniping at him. But maybe it really does take one moment to change an event. Too bad Tyler will found out that Alex was not saved, after all.

They also have a story with Justin and Jessica to figure out. Justin's now been shown to have nobody really in his life. He doesn't have a family anymore, Jessica's pissed at him, and he dropped his very best friend for good reason. I think he's in a very low place and despite how much of an asshole he's been throughout the season, I'm somewhat interested in seeing his own recovery process. Jessica's a character that I thought I hated until about episode 9, when I discovered how much I just felt sorry for her and wanted better for her.  Courtney and Marcus are pretty abysmal characters who never quite got the sympathy factor from me. I don't think the show tried hard enough, but I'll bet that will be their season 2 storyline. Ryan was just kind of there for me the entire season. Tyler's a character I really felt sorry for, even when he was taking pictures of girls that he shouldn't have been. Nobody was actually nice to him. Sheri's probably the only truly likable person in that entire non-Clay group, but she was never really part of the group in the first place. 

Tony really might have been my favourite character throughout the season, so it was good to see his own subtle growth. Clay's morality is what really saved him, but I do think he had a lot of his own dick moments. 

I do believe that Alex will be around for season 2, so it'll be interesting to see his own recovery process. And as for the Bakers? They're going to listen to everything that happened to their daughter and I don't know how they're going to get through it. 

[ban1o]

mmm ok what was the purpose of having Hannah lie about Zach throwing away the letter was it to show she's unreliable and since she was suicidal at that point she somewhat exaggerated what happened. I've finished the show but I'm till wondering why she lied about that. 

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, ban1o said:

mmm ok what was the purpose of having Hannah lie about Zach throwing away the letter was it to show she's unreliable and since she was suicidal at that point she somewhat exaggerated what happened. I've finished the show but I'm till wondering why she lied about that. 

I've been thinking about this myself. I do like how Hannah, at the end of it all, is an unreliable narrator and even her truth is not always the right truth. I think, maybe from her point of view, him doing nothing after reading the letter was the equivalent to him tossing the letter away. From her perspective, especially through her broken mind at the time of recording the tapes, Zach is another person who let her down, who didn't do anything to prove to her that she was worth it. 

I actually ended up really liking Zach. Even with him stealing the letters, which was a really shitty thing to do, I truly think it was because he had genuine feelings for her and was hurt that she yelled at him like that in front of everybody. As most teenagers do, they react based on emotional responses and I don't think Zach's a truly bad person at the end of the day. Plus, he's not treated very well by his own group of friends. He's more on the outside than anything, so I think if Hannah hadn't have turned him down like that, she might have seen that they both have something in common. Alas, I can't blame her for turning him down because he is friends with people who hurt her badly. I'd be afraid to go for round three with those jocks. 

[Lady Calypso]

20 hours ago, absnow54 said:

This show is sort of toeing the Manic-Pixie-Dream-Girl line that was popular during the John Green era a little too hard, and the analog tape catalog being traded between teenagers in 2017 is a little much. You could have gotten away with it in 2007 when the book was written, because it was a plausible transition time when teens would have leftover Walkmens from the early-90's, or, more likely have a tape player in their car instead of a CD player.

 That said, this show's also got a Veronica Mars/noir element to it that I'm really digging. The kid playing Clay is doing an excellent job, although I'm really worried about his erratic bike riding all over town.

I do agree. I get that they wanted to keep the spirit of the book somehow here and having the cassette tapes is a pretty unique twist to keep for 2017. I do think they attempted to explain why, but they probably could have done a better job. 

I liked it, though. I was born in the early 90s so tapes were slightly ahead of my time and I used more Walkman devices than anything. But I actually happened to find my own boom box in our basement last week, cassette tapes and all, and was actually talking to my grandfather about what was going to come back now, since records are making a comeback. He was talking about how he might have to throw his tapes out. It was very surreal to go from that to this show. 

[ban1o]

14 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I've been thinking about this myself. I do like how Hannah, at the end of it all, is an unreliable narrator and even her truth is not always the right truth. I think, maybe from her point of view, him doing nothing after reading the letter was the equivalent to him tossing the letter away. From her perspective, especially through her broken mind at the time of recording the tapes, Zach is another person who let her down, who didn't do anything to prove to her that she was worth it. 

I actually ended up really liking Zach. Even with him stealing the letters, which was a really shitty thing to do, I truly think it was because he had genuine feelings for her and was hurt that she yelled at him like that in front of everybody. As most teenagers do, they react based on emotional responses and I don't think Zach's a truly bad person at the end of the day. Plus, he's not treated very well by his own group of friends. He's more on the outside than anything, so I think if Hannah hadn't have turned him down like that, she might have seen that they both have something in common. Alas, I can't blame her for turning him down because he is friends with people who hurt her badly. I'd be afraid to go for round three with those jocks. 

yeah I liked that too. It added ambiguity and obviously someone who is depressed would have a different point of view. It did make me wonder about what Jessica said of Hannah being the one to stop coming to Monet when she and Alex got together. Like iI just assumed she was lying to make herself seem better but rethinking about it it's possible. Hannah did seam to shy away from human connection. lol maybe I'm over thinking it though lmao. Hannah was probably telling the truth about that but it did make me think. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by ban1o

[braziliangirl]

I kinda get it why Clay took so long to listen to the tapes. He was scared. I would be too.

Spoiler

He was dealing with Jeff's death

and then Hannah's and then the possibility that he was responsible for her death, that she hated him...If he listened to that he could never take it back.

Edited April 2, 2017 by braziliangirl

[Lady Calypso]

14 hours ago, ban1o said:

Good episode. Two things concerning Jessica getting raped. One. What was stopping Hannah from saying anything. This really bothered me. Even if she was too scared to stop the rape from happening she could have at least told Jessica after wards instead of on tape for everybody to hear.  This just made me feel like Hannah wasn't much better than Justin in that regard.

Very true, which doesn't make Hannah right for her choices with Jessica and it does entitle Jessica to be skeptical of Hannah's tapes. After all, Hannah goes on and on about how much she doesn't like how Jessica and her aren't friends, but she could have told Jessica at any point that she was raped by Bryce. It would have been unsettling to hear, but it would have been the right thing to do. Maybe she wouldn't have believed her, but she would have known. Plus, I agree that it's worse that everyone else had to hear about Jessica's rape as well, while knowing who did it. Justin was wrong for protecting Jessica by not saying anything and letting it happen, but Hannah was in the wrong for not saying anything either. 

But Hannah did end up acknowledging that she was wrong for not saying anything, so at least she knew it. 

As for Clay, it's frustrating for us because we had to see the same similar scene of Clay yelling at Tony and Tony going all Yoda on him, but the show's thirteen episodes so they needed to draw it out somehow. Plus, they blatantly acknowledged that Clay is heavily affected by Hannah's death and that it is affecting his ability to even think about Hannah, let alone listen to her voice. The show has a slower present day timeline anyway. I think it's only been four or five days since he got the tapes, so it's not like it is taking weeks for him to listen. 

[braziliangirl]

I  liked the fact that Clay had dick moments because it showed he wasn't perfect. He was this nice guy who was falible as anyone. Hannah hurted him too.

I also loved the fact that Hannah understood some things wrong. She was dealing with so much and had been so hurt that she became defensive and coudn't see that she was loved, that there were other people she could count on (like Tony, or other kids who weren't popular, Clay, her parents, the librarian guy, Kathy). When you're depressed you feel like everyone would be better off without you.

I felt for everyone but Marcus and Bryce.

Props to Minette, Langford, Boe, Flynn and Heizer. Great cast.

After I finished the series I couldn't stop thinking about it. I wanted to rescue everyone.

[STFUFrank]

I don't think anyone was supposed to feel bad for Bryce but the actor sold the character and made me believe he really was that dickhead jock who doesn't think he did anything wrong. 

[Lady Calypso]

You know, when watching this episode, I realize that there could have been a way to prevent Ryan from being on the tape. Well, besides not posting Hannah's poem in his magazine, of course. I had to question his reasons for photocopying the poem and putting it in the magazine instead of typing up a copy and putting it in. Did he not consider that people might recognize her handwriting? At least if he had typed it up, she would still be pissed but it wouldn't have given the students another reason to bully Hannah. 

[Empress1]

The college fair bugged me (although as someone who's seen a lot of Law & Order SVU, I laughed when I saw a Hudson University pamphlet) because movies and TV so often get financial aid wrong. The college rep said something like "Our financial aid goes to students at the top of their class," which isn't how financial aid works. If she'd said "Our merit-based scholarships go to the students at the top of their class," that would be different. A small thing, and I get that they couldn't flesh out the very real issue of Hannah's family likely being too well-off for need-based aid but not well-off enough to pay for college in full, but it bugged.

19 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

You know, when watching this episode, I realize that there could have been a way to prevent Ryan from being on the tape. Well, besides not posting Hannah's poem in his magazine, of course. I had to question his reasons for photocopying the poem and putting it in the magazine instead of typing up a copy and putting it in. Did he not consider that people might recognize her handwriting? At least if he had typed it up, she would still be pissed but it wouldn't have given the students another reason to bully Hannah. 

I doubt he gave it that much thought - he clearly didn't care if people recognized it, otherwise he wouldn't have done it in the first place.

I've kept a journal since I was in third grade. I don't even want them left behind after I die. The thought of someone not only reading them but ripping pages of my writing out and posting them publicly makes me practically murderous with rage. I'd have spit in his face.

[Empress1]

17 hours ago, ban1o said:

I know the show isn't a PSA and Correct me if I'm wrong but Jessica had  little to no memory of what happened so Justin told her it was him that had slept with her when she was passed out drunk? That is still rape even if it was her boyfriend. I just wish the show would have made that more clear. But I know it isn't a PSA. 

I think he told her they were both drunk but conscious, had sex, and then passed out after, so she thinks it was a drunken but consensual hookup.

[Empress1]

47 minutes ago, TotalHellion said:

I don't think anyone was supposed to feel bad for Bryce but the actor sold the character and made me believe he really was that dickhead jock who doesn't think he did anything wrong. 

That's what happens when you have neither supervision nor consequences. He thinks he can do whatever he wants because he always has. He's That Guy. If he doesn't face consequences for raping Jessica, he'll go off to college and leave a dozen more rape victims in his wake.

17 hours ago, toogoodtobetrue said:

I can't even begin to imagine how much more hurt Hannah's poor parents are going to feel after listening to the tapes. And it makes me so damn sad that teenagers (and adults, too, but especially teenagers) can't see any other way forward with their lives and so commit suicide. It's profoundly sad in a way that is indescribable with mere words and this show really drives that home.  

I tangentially know a 13-year-old boy who committed suicide a couple of years ago. And one of the things the media wrote about him afterward that has stuck with me is "What decision did you make when you were 13 that you'd want to be permanent?" It's so sad.

I feel very sorry for her parents. There's so much that they didn't know, and while they were having their own troubles with the store, there's nothing that led me to believe that they wouldn't have immediately tried to help her if she'd gone to them about any of it. 

Jessica's father will always be Martin Kendall from The Cosby Show to me.

[DittyDotDot]

4 hours ago, braziliangirl said:

I kinda get it why Clay took so long to listen to the tapes.

I just finished watching the series and I totally get why it took Clay so long to listen to them. I had to take breaks from the show myself. It's hard to watch knowing how it turns out. I can imagine it being very hard to listen to these tapes knowing there's nothing that can be done to save this girl at this point. It's very sad.

[DittyDotDot]

20 hours ago, ban1o said:

yeah 2007 it would be easier to get away with it but 2017 it's totally unrealistic. Like the show but my brother is 15 and probably doesn't even know what a casette players is. Like remember the characters in this were born in like the year 2000. 

While I agree it would be unusual for teens to have cassette players, I'm pretty sure my 14-year-old niece knows what a cassette is, even if she hasn't used one herself. I think it's reasonable that a guy like Tony would have a cassette player in his car and the other kids would've been able to find one just like Clay did. I used to keep an old boom box in my garage until recently, so it totally made sense to me.

On 4/1/2017 at 11:59 AM, absnow54 said:

That said, this show's also got a Veronica Mars/noir element to it that I'm really digging. 

I was telling a friend the show reminded me of both Pretty Little Liars--although I only watched a couple episodes of it--and Veronica Mars. 

[DittyDotDot]

This was a very hard show to watch at times. I couldn't stop watching, but had to take breaks here and there. Not exactly what I was expecting, but very well done series, I think.

23 hours ago, ban1o said:

I definitely liked it and I thought it's depiction of high school was realistic. You could feel how even little things affected Hannah and the pain she was going through. I just want to say I think Jessica deserved better. Although she was bitchy at times Hannah should have told her what happened when she was alive instead of over the tape for so many other people to here and letting her get manipulated by Justin and others. That was one problem I had with Hannah she put Justin on the tapes for letting Jessica get raped but she did the same thing? I mean she was right there too and there was nothing stopping her from telling Jessica. 

That's one of the 13 reasons why, though. Hannah did blame herself and the reason Jessica's rape was on the tapes, I think, was to point out that she made mistakes and has regrets too. 

20 hours ago, toogoodtobetrue said:

I wondered if the show was hinting that Tyler had actually shot Alex and made it seem like a suicide-- he seemed to have pictures of the "13" people in his darkroom and took down Alex's picture as if he had taken him off his hit list. 

I wondered about that too. It wouldn't be hard to make it look like suicide since Alex has been on a downward spiral throughout the series. It does seem like they're saying that all these kids have the potential to be horrible current events, will someone now step up and try to help them be something else.

20 hours ago, toogoodtobetrue said:

I know the show is not a PSA, but it is in the Young Adult genre, technically, and I don't know if they showed that Hannah had other options that she just couldn't see-- yeah they showed that Clay really cared for her, but... it just wasn't enough. I'm not sure wha they could have done here to address that. 

Actually, I think the show is a subversive PSA. Or it could be...or maybe it should be?

19 hours ago, ban1o said:

Yeah I've been thinking something similar. Also the suicide scene was just so graphic... I don't know how someone contemplating suicide would react to it. I almost feel like it romanticizes suicide in a way. They should have made it clear she had other options and what those were. 

I didn't think the actual suicide was romanticized. It was horrible and violent and painful. I was beginning to think they were romanticizing Hannah Baker a bit too much until they showed just how horrible the actual act was. And, watching the parents and then the fallout from everyone around her. In the end, I think they did a good job of showing it's not a pleasant or peaceful solution. 

18 hours ago, ban1o said:

Actually a lot of the characters who I hated initially I ended up feeling some sympathy for.  But I guess that was the purpose of the show. 

I thought they did a good job of showing that everyone has a backstory and a POV. Doesn't mean I have to like them or sympathize with them, just that they do have reasons that, in their minds, are good ones.

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Hannah was such an interesting and complex character that I don't know if season 2 will be the same without her.

I'm not sure how I feel about a S2. Not because of Hannah, but because I think they told their story and made their point, to continue on might water it down for me. Although, I could see them doing another season and following the aftermath of a completely different set of characters. I don't know right now.

Edited April 2, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[AttackTurtle]

I thoroughly enjoyed this series.  I am open to a second season.  I don't think Tyler was involved in Alex's shooting, but he's definitely planning on something big with those guns.  Other than Jessica, Alex appeared the most fragile.  And speaking of Jessica, I don't see her Dad sitting on the information of what happened to her.  It also made me reflect on just how much better Hannah's situation would've been had she told her parents about what had happened to her.

The actors playing Hannah & Clay were fantastic.  His scene with the counselor was really well done.  

I'm long out of high school, but I could really see this series as something worth showing in schools today.

Edited April 2, 2017 by AttackTurtle

[jeansheridan]

Crickets  on this forum!  Wow.  I am getting a slight Veronica Mars vibe from the style of the production but without Veronica's humor.  

The guy playing Clay is perfect.  Nerdy, awkward,  tongue-tied.