S06.E11: R for Romeo

[Lemons]

The poison that almost killed Quinn, did they use the one that Assad is using to kill citizens or did they make one up for TV?

8 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Actually he's modeled after Alex Jones, a conspiracy theorist with his own talk show that millions listen to/watch. What you see as a fictional character is far crazier in real life. 

Rush is a  harmless twat compared to Alex Jones and places like Info Wars and Breitbart News.   Hateful people.

[Pallas]

My notion that Max might be working with Adal was based in the idea that he didn't join us this season  just to act as Carrie's super Super, and it was completely off. Except on one point -- I imagined that Adal would have sold it to Max as being, somehow, to Carrie's benefit. ("It's for the agency's protection too, of course; I wouldn't pretend otherwise...") And while Max wouldn't swallow it whole, his buried anger about Carrie's tenure as station chief and how it ended for Fara and for him ("Take me instead!"), might have worked the twist. Instead, in entirely different circumstances, Adal asked Max to help him help Quinn. 

What I forgot was that Max may know that Adal made a deal to save Haqqani, who butchered Fara and people to the left and right of Max. So we have the man who saved the man who murdered Fara, asking Max and his nerve endings to trust him, to save someone else he cares for. Among all the candidates with motive and opportunity to adios Adal, should we include Max?

[Cotypubby]

In addition to his utter twattiness and complete douchebaggery, I can't stand to listen to O'Keefe because of that horrible fake accent. I really don't understand what's going on with that. Why is the actor using the fakest fake Southern accent? Unless there will be some reveal that the character isn't really American...

[vesperholly]

9 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

When Carrie went inside the van she was still wearing her toque, then when she reentered the house, the toque was gone, she wasn't holding it, magic! ;)

She took it off as she walked into the house from the garage.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Why is the actor using the fakest fake Southern accent? 

I never picked up a Southern accent from him. He sounded vaguely British so I Googled the actor (Jake Weber) and it turns out he is British. Maybe he's just not pulling off an American accent that well? 

[Pallas]

2 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I Googled the actor (Jake Weber) and it turns out he is British. Maybe he's just not pulling off an American accent that well? 

He was very appealing and credible as Patricia Arquette's Southwest U.S. husband on Medium, though, and he's lived in the States for 38 years. A childhood that Adal might have arranged.

[venezia54]

On 4/3/2017 at 0:34 AM, dwmarch said:

Epic FBI fail for not realizing that a Spec Ops safehouse might be booby-trapped. Heavily armed ex-military types who happily murder FBI agents and who have already blown up a van might have access to more explosives. This is what inter-agency cooperation looks like on this show. Your shit gets wrecked.

How many times has Carrie been blown up now? At least she didn't wake up manic. And I loved that once she found Quinn and they shook off the cobwebs they started checking the fallen to see if there were other survivors.

I was sure Max was dead in this episode so I'm glad he still draws breath for the moment.

I also really liked Saul informing PEOTUS that she didn't have a plan. His "follow the money? It is to LOL!" was great as was him reminding the team that they were up against tried and true CIA gangsta shit. (Not his CIA though, very important!)

I LOVED LOVED LOVED the shot of Quinn and Carrie as he was leaving. Quinn was walking into the light while Carrie was remaining hidden in the shadows. I don't know if they planned it that way but it really worked for me. I also appreciated the subtle ambiguity of Quinn saying "you have to let me go". Is he telling Carrie to get over him or is he telling her to get out of his way because he's got places to be? Or six of one, half a dozen of the other?

When shows are so well done, it's easy to forget that every detail is deliberate and has to be created from a production standpoint. I produce and direct TV commercials, and even I forget!  For that scene, the lighting had to be meticulously set up, so yes, it was planned. Even little things like Quinn's hair looking clean--a stylist has to do that. It is deliberately done to suggest he's getting his groove back. I notice that as his aphasia and limp aren't as pronounced and as he is clearly in control of his "Quinning" faculties, they are making him look hot again. In that scene, RF is seriously handsome--no longer the pathetic hobo he was. It's all done by design. My only worry with not one, but two, "let me go" scenes is that they are foreshadowing Quinn's death. He walks out into the light, leaving Carrie in the dark. Some people might interpret that as foreshadowing of his death. I don't think so though. It could just as easily mean that Carrie is still in the dark, whereas Quinn is always five steps ahead. I think as a death-foreshadowing, that's a little obvious for these writers. I think they WANT us to think that. I suspect Carrie will let him go in the season finale, and he walks away ALIVE to go heal himself. I hope, anyway. Quinn is why I watch the show. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by venezia54

[roughing it]

16 hours ago, Pallas said:

My notion that Max might be working with Adal

Then why would Max take a video of Dar with O'Keefe and send it to Carrie?

[piequinn35]

Now the question is who is this "big financer"?

[venezia54]

Quote

The poison that almost killed Quinn, did they use the one that Assad is using to kill citizens or did they make one up for TV?

Sarin was used on Quinn and unfortunately, it's very real and extremely lethal. It has been used in Syrian attacks before, so that is probably what was used--or something like it.  From the symptoms reported--seizures, foaming at the mouth etc.--it sounds like sarin. 

[venezia54]

Claire Danes said the other day that Carrie has no "romantic" feelings toward Quinn. (She also says  their love is "deep, real and lasting", so whatevs!) My friend says Carrie has only sisterly feelings toward Quinn, and that Carrie loves him, but isn't IN love with him. I think that's true this season. It's hard to be romantic when you're a caregiver, and it's emasculating to be the caregivee. Quinn does not feel he deserves love and is in no shape to accept it even if it were offered. But still. I think of what Carrie is like with the men she definitely feels platonic toward--say Saul or Max or someone like Otto. That's NOT the way she is with Quinn. Next to Franny, Quinn is the only person she loves unconditionally and protects no matter what. (Hell, she almost took a bullet for him when the SWAT team tried to take him down.) In this epi, when the bomb went off, he was her first thought up on coming too, and then she ran weeping with relief into his arms. That was, like, "Dr. Zhivago" level-romantic!  It wasn't that long ago that she was kissing him passionately and wanting to be with him. When they were reunited in Season 5, her said she looked for him everywhere and thought of him all the time. She has heard his declaration of love in the deathbed letter (and what of that letter--are they going to never address that YUGE elephant in the room?) This is not a show where the writers pander to shippers or do traditional "happily ever after" scenarios, but THEY started it!  From the very first moment when handsome, snarky Quinn appeared in "New Car Smell", we knew he was going to be Carrie's love interest.  The writers could use the excuse of "realism", since in real life, couples don't always get closure. But if so, they are selectively "realistic". If they can bring Quinn very unrealistically back from the dead, they can give him a few happy moments with Carrie, dammit.  In fact, it's LESS realistic to have them never acknowledge their feelings. We have endured watching this beloved character be shot, bleeding, tortured, poisoned and in a coma last season, only to be brought back to endure a living nightmare where he is crazy, lame, institutionalized, beaten by police, almost killed (again), and forced to watch his lover's death and endure the guilt of that.  We also found out that he was possibly molested at 16 by Dar. and now he is being targeted by O'Keefe.  I speak now as a writer (not a shipper), but at some point, there has to be a release valve for the audience. We have to feel some relief for Quinn. Wounded warrior "realism" or not, how bleak, pointless and depressing it would be to kill him off now.  He's clearly getting better. His mind is sharper. His aphasia and limp aren't as pronounced, and frankly, he's looking hot as hell with those long (CLEAN) locks! Ganza says Carrie will be back at the CIA in Season 7 and probably overseas. We'll see Sunday night if Quinn survives, and if he doesn't, this could all be moot.  But if he does, what do you think will happen with him? Do you think Carrie is in love with him, or are they going to dump that SL altogether and give her a new guy?

Edited April 5, 2017 by venezia54

[roughing it]

21 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

^David Thornton as George Pallis, Solicitor General of the United States, the one that disappeared when the bomb blew off.

Thanks for the name.  I looked David Thornton up on IMDB.com, and can say that I never noticed him, at all.  I'll have to go back and rewatch.

[Pallas]

On 4/4/2017 at 4:31 PM, Lemons said:

The poison that almost killed Quinn, did they use the one that Assad is using to kill citizens or did they make one up for TV?

As Venezia54 posted above, Quinn was exposed to sarin; Assad used sarin (or another nerve agent) in yesterday's assault. The "graphic" in the Times article is graphic, essential and appalling. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Pallas

[Pallas]

On 4/5/2017 at 1:20 PM, roughing it said:

On 4/4/2017 at 8:57 PM, Pallas said:

My notion that Max might be working with Adal

Then why would Max take a video of Dar with O'Keefe and send it to Carrie?

That brought my notion to its knees, it's true. (Along with the fact that Max has been more loyal than Saul to Carrie). As soon as Max was caught I said "Oh shit Max!" and not because it looked bad for my theory. But I think I decided that until proven otherwise, Max could still have sent the video to Carrie in order to lure her and Saul to the sock puppet gallery. Because Adal had convinced him that Carrie and Saul were very much wrong-headed in supporting Keane and her policies, but that -- as Max knew -- Carrie wouldn't talk with him. The photo from Max would bring Carrie, Saul and Adal together for the first time this season, and explication would get rendered as conflict.

[Milburn Stone]

On 4/3/2017 at 0:34 AM, pfk505 said:

Admittedly, I didn't predict the whole assassination plot with Quinn as the patsy...

This is like the fourth post out of the first ten to talk about an assassination plot against Keane. Where is this coming from? The previews (which I deliberately don't watch)? Pure speculation that just happens to be shared by many? Or was there something in the episode I missed?

[Mabel]

On 05.04.2017 at 8:41 PM, venezia54 said:

Sarin was used on Quinn and unfortunately, it's very real and extremely lethal. It has been used in Syrian attacks before, so that is probably what was used--or something like it.  From the symptoms reported--seizures, foaming at the mouth etc.--it sounds like sarin. 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/opinion/what-its-like-to-survive-a-sarin-gas-attack.html - apparently, some survived the attack even without a preemptive atropine shot. So, Quinn's survival may not necessarily be 'jump-the-shark' moment (although the fact that he is still alive after all the shootings/stabbings etc definitely is)

Edited April 8, 2017 by Mabel

[Pallas]

10 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

This is like the fourth post out of the first ten to talk about an assassination plot against Keane. Where is this coming from?

Off Carrie's alarm on the phone as she stood on the front lawn of the safehouse and heard from Rob that "reinforcements" were arriving to protect Keane: "'Reinforcements?'"  Then she had to interrupt herself to "No no don't!" at the agents unlocking the garage door, and then duck.

Claire Danes has a way of playing Carrie's Cassandra moments that distinguish them from her manic or just ornery hunches -- distinguish them to us viewers, if not her colleagues. Before that, there was the black ops team that took off that morning, bound for somewhere to do something. Then there was Saul's sitting in that hotel room, telling Keane that this will end in blood. Then there was Peter's online profile being crafted in the character of a assassin. For me, it compounded into a gestalt ignited by "Reinforcements?" 

[Milburn Stone]

57 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Off Carrie's alarm on the phone as she stood on the front lawn of the safehouse and heard from Rob that "reinforcements" were arriving to protect Keane: "'Reinforcements?'"  Then she had to interrupt herself to "No no don't!" at the agents unlocking the garage door, and then duck.

Claire Danes has a way of playing Carrie's Cassandra moments that distinguish them from her manic or just ornery hunches -- distinguish them to us viewers, if not her colleagues. Before that, there was the black ops team that took off that morning, bound for somewhere to do something. Then there was Saul's sitting in that hotel room, telling Keane that this will end in blood. Then there was Peter's online profile being crafted in the character of a assassin. For me, it compounded into a gestalt ignited by "Reinforcements?" 

I got nothing of that. Thank you!

[Milburn Stone]

On 4/3/2017 at 3:54 PM, slowpoked said:

I'm confused about the location of the bomb - is it from the same garage where Sekou's stolen van was? If it is, weren't there already agents in there checking out the place?

I was confused about this very same thing. So far I haven't seen @slowpoked's question answered by anybody. (Unless I missed it.)

[snarts]

Carrie realized that team from the bomb house had been sent to NYC as secret service detail reinforcements.  She put this together from the remnants on the white erase board showing East Coast as a destination and her conversation with Rob., who was with the President Elect.

That, coupled with the upcoming previews, is where the assassination attempt theory comes from.

Edited April 8, 2017 by snarts

[Milburn Stone]

27 minutes ago, snarts said:

Carrie realized that team from the bomb house had been sent to NYC as secret service detail reinforcements.  She put this together from the remnants on the white erase board showing East Coast as a destination and her conversation with Rob., who was with the President Elect.

That, coupled with the upcoming previews, is where the assassination attempt theory comes from.

Aha! I thought the damned previews had to be a part of it. ;)

[Spike]

Do the writers not know the difference between Attorney General and Solicitor General? The SG is the top appellate lawyer for the Justice Department and argues cases for the government before SCOTUS.  He wouldn't be showing up at crime scenes or deciding whether to prosecute and whether enough evidence exists to bring charges. 

Every time they address that guy as SG or refer to him that way it makes the whole show seem unrealistic.  And yeah I know a lot of it requires suspension of disbelief, but they wouldn't call the President the Queen lol.

[bannana]

On ‎2017‎-‎04‎-‎05 at 1:04 PM, roughing it said:

Thanks for the name.  I looked David Thornton up on IMDB.com, and can say that I never noticed him, at all.  I'll have to go back and rewatch.

And  he's married to Cyndi Lauper!

[Kel Varnsen]

On 08/04/2017 at 0:06 PM, Milburn Stone said:

I was confused about this very same thing. So far I haven't seen @slowpoked's question answered by anybody. (Unless I missed it.)

I am curious. How big would a bomb need to be to create an explosion like that?  Are we talking something the size of a grenade? Based on what tv and movies has taught me about explosives I imagine it wouldn't need to be very big at all. It is not like it blew up the whole block or even the whole house. That said not checking for booby traps was dumb.

[John Potts]

I'm disappointed that Dar's "Heart was in the right place" in that he didn't mean to hurt Quinn. Let Dar be Dar! Accept that he's a ruthless player! Unless he has a deeper plan to "play nice" with the new regime to keep his job (& influence) by discarding a "burnt" plan so he shows how he was "only getting involved with the grand conspiracy to entrap them all - see I'm sneaky but loyal!"

Liked the Carrie/Quinn fight at the beginning - that was so raw and to the point. Also, IF the evil plan is to assassinate PEOTUS, is that really such a good idea? If your objective is to destroy her legacy, killing her is the LAST thing you should do - it generates MASSIVE sympathy for her agenda, which the VPEOTUS will be able to enact*. Keeping her in place as a damaged figure leaves her FAR easier to ram through whatever your true agenda is.

Have to agree that Carrie should have realised (or at least suspected) that there was someone left in the house. It's possible your wet team screwed up, but best not to assume they did. He could still get the drop on Carrie, but she shouldn't have been so shocked that he was there.

Incidentally, every time I hear somebody referring to the Talk Show host as "Alex Jones" I think "What, her?

On ‎03‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 3:15 AM, SimoneS said:

Keane did do well on the radio show. I liked Saul pointing out that the plot was textbook regime change. Dar is going to turn on allies now he knows they are setting up Quinn to be the patsy for assassinating Keane.

I agree, but I would have asked him, "So, where did YOU serve?" since he was pretty big on calling people "coward!" from the safety of a film studio.

 

* I must confess, I'm not entirely sure if the VP Elect automatically becomes President Elect  and gets to take the oath without any other political shenanigans - but I'm pretty sure TPTB don't either!

[Roseanna]

On ‎5‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 9:47 PM, venezia54 said:

Claire Danes said the other day that Carrie has no "romantic" feelings toward Quinn. (She also says  their love is "deep, real and lasting", so whatevs!) My friend says Carrie has only sisterly feelings toward Quinn, and that Carrie loves him, but isn't IN love with him. I think that's true this season. It's hard to be romantic when you're a caregiver, and it's emasculating to be the caregivee. Quinn does not feel he deserves love and is in no shape to accept it even if it were offered. But still. I think of what Carrie is like with the men she definitely feels platonic toward--say Saul or Max or someone like Otto. That's NOT the way she is with Quinn. Next to Franny, Quinn is the only person she loves unconditionally and protects no matter what. (Hell, she almost took a bullet for him when the SWAT team tried to take him down.) In this epi, when the bomb went off, he was her first thought up on coming too, and then she ran weeping with relief into his arms. That was, like, "Dr. Zhivago" level-romantic!  It wasn't that long ago that she was kissing him passionately and wanting to be with him. When they were reunited in Season 5, her said she looked for him everywhere and thought of him all the time. She has heard his declaration of love in the deathbed letter (and what of that letter--are they going to never address that YUGE elephant in the room?) This is not a show where the writers pander to shippers or do traditional "happily ever after" scenarios, but THEY started it!  From the very first moment when handsome, snarky Quinn appeared in "New Car Smell", we knew he was going to be Carrie's love interest.  The writers could use the excuse of "realism", since in real life, couples don't always get closure. But if so, they are selectively "realistic". If they can bring Quinn very unrealistically back from the dead, they can give him a few happy moments with Carrie, dammit.  In fact, it's LESS realistic to have them never acknowledge their feelings. We have endured watching this beloved character be shot, bleeding, tortured, poisoned and in a coma last season, only to be brought back to endure a living nightmare where he is crazy, lame, institutionalized, beaten by police, almost killed (again), and forced to watch his lover's death and endure the guilt of that.  We also found out that he was possibly molested at 16 by Dar. and now he is being targeted by O'Keefe.  I speak now as a writer (not a shipper), but at some point, there has to be a release valve for the audience. We have to feel some relief for Quinn. Wounded warrior "realism" or not, how bleak, pointless and depressing it would be to kill him off now.  He's clearly getting better. His mind is sharper. His aphasia and limp aren't as pronounced, and frankly, he's looking hot as hell with those long (CLEAN) locks! Ganza says Carrie will be back at the CIA in Season 7 and probably overseas. We'll see Sunday night if Quinn survives, and if he doesn't, this could all be moot.  But if he does, what do you think will happen with him? Do you think Carrie is in love with him, or are they going to dump that SL altogether and give her a new guy?

Beautifully written. 

However, I disagree. I don't think love that is between Carrie and Quinn needs words, nor "happy moments". It's much better proven by their actions.

Romantic love isn't always strongest love, and certainly not kindest love. As we know, Quinn has romantic feelings towards Carrie, but his love has always been much higher love, completely disinterested and lacking jealousy as was shown when he didn't kill Brody as that would have crushed Carrie.

 On the other hand, altough Quinn allowed himself some moments to hope in S4, he has always known that it couldn't happen because of his past.

 I think that this episode proved it: he has murdered people, it's his profession, rage lives inside him as shown by his useless cuelty and he can't really change. 

On ‎11‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 11:46 PM, John Potts said:

I agree, but I would have asked him, "So, where did YOU serve?" since he was pretty big on calling people "coward!" from the safety of a film studio

That. Plus, he earlier stressed that the PEOTUS's son was on the back - does he think that the war is some kind Wild West duel?

In any case, as I said earlier, the PEOTUS isn't responsible for his son heroism or cowardice.  

[Roseanna]

On ‎3‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 4:48 AM, WaltersHair said:

I am so fantastically sick of both the left and right telling me what to think. Hysteria on both sides. SHUT UP.  I don't know who the radio guy is supposed to be in real life and I don't give a crap. That accent is the worst and he's still a cartoon character. Get off my regular FICTIONAL TV show. If I wanted heavy handed BS, I'd just tune in to cable news.

There are always some kind of ideology in the thrillers, and I think it's far more dangerous if it's hidden.   

On ‎3‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 5:15 AM, SimoneS said:

Keane did do well on the radio show. I liked Saul pointing out that the plot was textbook regime change. 

I still find Keane strangely uncharismatic (or should I say low-key) which I think is a strange thing for a person who has won the US election.

I was astonished that Saul mentioned CIA coups from Iran in the 50ies. But what did he mean when he said that "this isn't my CIA"? That's OK abroad but not at home?

On ‎3‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 6:34 AM, mjc570 said:

I liked that Carrie was finally called on her actions - although it was telling that her first response to Quinn was "Who told you" rather than "I'm sorry, I thought I was doing what you would have wanted to do to save lives." 

Although Quinn was at least partly right when he said that Carrie helped him becaus of her quilty feelings, also Carrie was right: of course she had to do anything to save Berlin - even sacrifice Quinn. If she couldn't do it, she wouldn't be a professional.

I couldn't believe my eyes when the politician who became CIA chief in S4 was so soft that he gave "crown jewels" to the terrorists because they killed some of the Embassy's personal and threatened to kill others. He was too soft for the job!

[Roseanna]

So far, I found this season weakest. But Carrie and Quinn's confrontation had such a power that I must change my mind.   

[paramitch]

On 4/5/2017 at 6:12 AM, Pallas said:

He was very appealing and credible as Patricia Arquette's Southwest U.S. husband on Medium, though, and he's lived in the States for 38 years. A childhood that Adal might have arranged.

Agreed, I normally like Jake Weber a lot, and he was honestly one of the only reasons I kept watching "Medium" consistently. He's definitely capable of a midwestern American accent. I think, though, watching more closely, I noticed that he's not just trying for a Southern accent here, he's sort of doing this very weird specific kind of "mouthful of marbles" voice effect, almost like Brokaw or (most likely) some famous right-wing radio dude. But it's not working great for me, and I wish he'd have chosen to play it differently.

On 4/5/2017 at 9:50 AM, venezia54 said:

When shows are so well done, it's easy to forget that every detail is deliberate and has to be created from a production standpoint. I produce and direct TV commercials, and even I forget!  For that scene, the lighting had to be meticulously set up, so yes, it was planned. Even little things like Quinn's hair looking clean--a stylist has to do that. It is deliberately done to suggest he's getting his groove back. I notice that as his aphasia and limp aren't as pronounced and as he is clearly in control of his "Quinning" faculties, they are making him look hot again. In that scene, RF is seriously handsome--no longer the pathetic hobo he was. It's all done by design. My only worry with not one, but two, "let me go" scenes is that they are foreshadowing Quinn's death. He walks out into the light, leaving Carrie in the dark. Some people might interpret that as foreshadowing of his death. I don't think so though. It could just as easily mean that Carrie is still in the dark, whereas Quinn is always five steps ahead. I think as a death-foreshadowing, that's a little obvious for these writers. I think they WANT us to think that. I suspect Carrie will let him go in the season finale, and he walks away ALIVE to go heal himself. I hope, anyway. Quinn is why I watch the show. 

Beautiful post! That was a great way to emphasize how meticulous every little detail is in production, and I loved your discussion of what "Let me go" might mean.

I definitely felt like he was speaking it to her both literally and figuratively. Which broke my heart. But again... Rupert Friend has just been killing it this season as poor Quinn.

On 4/5/2017 at 11:47 AM, venezia54 said:

Claire Danes said the other day that Carrie has no "romantic" feelings toward Quinn. (She also says  their love is "deep, real and lasting", so whatevs!) My friend says Carrie has only sisterly feelings toward Quinn, and that Carrie loves him, but isn't IN love with him. I think that's true this season. It's hard to be romantic when you're a caregiver, and it's emasculating to be the caregivee. Quinn does not feel he deserves love and is in no shape to accept it even if it were offered. But still. I think of what Carrie is like with the men she definitely feels platonic toward--say Saul or Max or someone like Otto. That's NOT the way she is with Quinn. Next to Franny, Quinn is the only person she loves unconditionally and protects no matter what. (Hell, she almost took a bullet for him when the SWAT team tried to take him down.) In this epi, when the bomb went off, he was her first thought up on coming too, and then she ran weeping with relief into his arms. That was, like, "Dr. Zhivago" level-romantic!

I've always loved Carrie and Quinn and shipped them unabashedly. Heck, I was shipping them even when Brody was still alive. I always felt like there was something beautiful and generous in Quinn, that as cold and as damaged as he might be, as focused on the work, that his feelings for Carrie brought out something really different in him -- something life-affirming and a side of himself he may not have always been aware of. For me, that started when he realized what she had put herself through (the voluntary hospitalization) in order to set the trap with Saul. I'll never forget his face in the hospital when he realized what she had been willing to suffer, and that has always stayed with me. For me, Quinn has flat-out loved her from that moment onward -- but it's more than that. He admires her. He admires what she's willing to sacrifice for duty and country, admires how far she's willing to go. She will spend anything, including herself, to save lives.

So what got me in the scene here is that he was devastated over the very thing that caused him to love her -- the realization that she'd been willing to spend/risk his life too. He was heartbreaking in that scene.

On 4/23/2017 at 2:24 PM, Roseanna said:

However, I disagree. I don't think love that is between Carrie and Quinn needs words, nor "happy moments". It's much better proven by their actions.

Romantic love isn't always strongest love, and certainly not kindest love. As we know, Quinn has romantic feelings towards Carrie, but his love has always been much higher love, completely disinterested and lacking jealousy as was shown when he didn't kill Brody as that would have crushed Carrie. 

Well said. I think that's what's interesting about their dynamic. Quinn has done terrible things for his country, without question. But there is something selfless and tender about his feelings for Carrie to me, and I think they are actually really unique in Quinn's own experience. What's sad is that... what Carrie felt for Brody, Quinn has always felt for Carrie. Yes, I think Carrie loves him and cares for him... but I think he loves her far, far more.

[Roseanna]

On 4/3/2017 at 9:09 PM, RedFiat said:

He was robotic in that sense, he was unfeeling with Astrid, it was not until he became involved with Carrie and to a lesser extent Saul and the like who questioned their reasons for doing what they did.  Quinn was doing a lot of dark shit for a long time.  I still remember him stabbing Brody in the hand in interrogation.  He was a full on killing machine.

There has always been a clear difference between Dar and Saul. Saul likes such means like turning the enemy agent better than violence although also he has ordered assassinations. He believes that enemies can make peace if common interest is found.

Although Saul was Carrie's mentor, I think she adapted his methods, but not his practical worldview. She never questioned her reasons for doing what she did nor felt any moral qualms before S5. She was single-minded, concentrating on the goal, breaking laws and using people, accepting that the end justified the means. 

Quinn had a crisis of conscience much earlier - I don't mean that he refused to kill Quinn because it had crushed Carrie, but that after he had killed a child in S3 he refused to come to Kabul until Carrie persuaded him (he just couldn't say no when she needed him). Maybe Astrid was right that he used to have moments when he decided to quit but never did. In any case, in S4 he behaved quite differently than Carrie - it was he who scolded her for "sleeping with a child" (although Aayan was no more that - could it be that Quinn reacted so strongly because he was thinking about Dar and himself and/or the time he was a lover boy?) and prevented her to let Saul killed with Haqqani. In short, he had a conscience when Carrie seemed not to have one (well, she was clearly suffering from PTSD after Brody's death and refusing to admit that).

I think it's noteworthy that Carrie left the CIA in the end of S4 because she was angry about the deal Dar made with Haqqani in order to get a video about Saul - obviously she regarded it unhonorable. It was only after that she in S5 began to questions the CIA and "the war on terror".