Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Sakura12]

It's not like she can request to only kiss single childless actors. She's not 18 anymore and the older she gets the more her co-workers are likely to be married or have kids. Maybe she should think about getting out of the business then. She's got her fashion thing and with that you don't have to kiss married guys as part of the job. 

[bravelittletoaster]

Sounds legit.  Kill her, Slade.

[Sakura12]

Red represents blood as well, spill her's, Slade. :D

 

Then you and your amazingly sexy voice can stay on the show even if you still have a stupid motive.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

KC spoke of how SA knew not to tease or play practical jokes on her this season since basically he knew she was taking Laurel to emotional places and that she stayed in character (I assume she meant between takes). If she had been method also in the first year and SA had teased and joked and played pranks, I imagine KC would have been frustrated since it would have likely knocked her out of character. I think that might be where the coolness and distance comes from. There could be a very cordial relationship but if the other person confuses them or they don't know how to treat them without worrying about stepping on toes, that can create a real negative and uncomfortable vibe.

 

Except she doesn't stay in character in between takes (that I've seen) since she's posted several pictures on set with Paul, Caity, and the 4 Lances while filming 213.  She's posted photos of her and Stephen sitting in their chairs between takes during 211.  Heck there's a photo that Paul posted while they were filming one of the earlier episodes this season of Katie sitting around the set doing her nails while the crew were setting the lighting up.  

 

So, I don't believe that whole Method acting bit and in fact it's not like Stephen doesn't go into detail about his character too.  We know that Stephen and Caity talked about what Oliver/Sara's relationship might have been on the Island and came up with a backstory for why they were hooking back up in 213 and we know from Dragon Con that Stephen told Barrowman when they were setting up the torture scene in 123 that he shouldn't walk too close when confronting a chained up Oliver because "Oliver" would try to head butt him.

 

I'm not saying that there's some massive annimosity between the cast or actors or anything like that, I'm more than happy to just accept that KC is a bad fit for this role and isn't good at portraying anything other than bitchy characters (which is her forte).

Edited May 13, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[catrox14]

just wanted to share that I saw a commenter on another website say the person Oliver loves the most is Laurel because she "is wearing a red jacket – it symbolises their love and passion." Uhh...what?

 

By that reasoning Thea would be the one that Oliver loves the most because she's been wearing a red jacket for like two episodes now. 

[MsSchadenfreude]

If wearing red signifies someone as Oliver's true love then I am  pretty sure Roy with his infamous RED hoodie must be Oliver's true love then.  Roy's been wearing that hoodie around Oliver since he's known him. And of course, it now makes perfect sense why Oliver won't kill Roy. I totally see where the show is going in season three...Oliver/Roy/Thea triangle.LOL

[catrox14]

HA! Good point on Roy. I think Felicity had a red peekaboo front dress in the first episodes.  And I think Sara had a red shirt at least once.  And I'm thinking Moira had a red dress or something.   Yup. A red piece of clothing is the key. 

 

Wait, has Sally ever worn red?

[icandigit]

 

We know that Stephen and Caity talked about what Oliver/Sara's relationship might have been on the Island and came up with a backstory for why they were hooking back up in 213

What did they say about that? I hadn't read/seen that interview.

[statsgirl]

the person Oliver loves the most is Laurel because she "is wearing a red jacket – it symbolises their love and passion." Uhh...what?

Laurendrew, I think that's the level you have to work on to see Oliver and Laurel as Made For Each Other.

 

 

The major one is IMO a vastly different style of acting. KC talked in those Calgary Expo interviews about needing to fill out her characters reasoning and backstory and how Paul Blackstone was the same way

I think the key word there is needing.  I've listened to a few interviews and Q&As with Katie Cassidy and this is seems to be a theme, that she needs someone to work with her and help her fill out her character's motivation and reactions, and then when she's got it, she hangs on to it in character.  The others seem to work things out on their own or with minimal help from the other cast members.

 

For example, look at what EBR did the first time she appeared as Felicity. She played it a little daffy, cocked her head when Oliver said his coffee shop was in a rough area of town, and got possibly the first unconscious smile out of Stephen Amell since Oliver got back from the island.

 

I think Ruby was an easier part for KC to play, she understood her better and it's always easier to play bad than good,  so she didn't have to stay in character all day for it.  It must be tough on her to have to go into Laurel's character and stay apart and in character when the rest of the cast are acting goofy (e.g. the Summer Nights video with Barrowman).

Edited May 13, 2014 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

What did they say about that? I hadn't read/seen that interview.

 

Something to the effect that he and Caity had talked about their characters maybe having a closer relationship on the Island that we hadn't seen on the show yet and that they went to the EPs with their backstory and the EPs agreed with them.

[Sakura12]

Caity also said her and Paul Blackthrone talked about how they think the relationship between Sara and Quentin was before her death. So the other actors do talk with each other for motivation. The difference is with Cassidy saying it is, I don't see it played like that in her acting. 

Edited May 13, 2014 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

I just don't buy into the defense of shitty acting because 'I can't stay in character and I can't build a backstory of my own accord".    She's a veteran actor. This isn't her first gig.  She's the FEMALE LEAD or is supposed to be. She has to take some of the onus onto herself to figure out where who the fuck Laurel is underneath it all. 

 

That's why regardless of her relationships with other characters Laurel herself is not clear and that is not ONLY because of the writing. Cassidy could have made choices early on to establish that Laurel will have some snark, or that Laurel will just be a good girl and is being heroic. Will Laurel have a tell in her face that we can say...Laurel is perturbed, or Laurel is sad? 

 

I think everyone in the cast has made choices that tells me "This is who X person is" regardless of the words they speak or the plot device they are in the show, be it by voice, or expression or body language or a particular tell, but IMO Cassidy hasn't done that. I should be able to look at Laurel and somewhat sense that 'This is Laurel Lance" be she a lawyer, baker or candlestick maker. Her character isn't the only one that's had to serve as a plot device. And IMO a good actor will find a way to own the character regardless of the writing and the dialogue.

 

IMO Blackthorne is doing most of the work in making the relationship between Lance and Laurel work.  Amell is trying to play the hero and the broken man but I always feel like 'Yes that's Oliver/Arrow". Even Island!Ollie I understand he's Island!Ollie even without the wig because he changes his demeanor which changes how he relates to everyone else on the island. And I buy all of it because there is some kind of inner life that I get from everyone in the cast but Cassidy which makes all of her interactions with every other character seem really awkward and as though she's not even trying.  And if she's not bringing her A game and everyone else is...she's a doing a disservice to the show and should either quit or be fired.

[Morrigan2575]

Caity also said her and Paul Blackthrone talked about how they think the relationship between Sara and Quentin was before her death. So the other actors do talk with each other for motivation. The difference is with Cassidy saying it is, I don't see it played like that in her acting.

 

Which is why I kind of call BS on KC's comment that Paul, Alex and Katie had to kind of force Caity into building this back story with them because that wasn't Caity's method. Seems to me that Caity was talking to other actors about the character's relationships on her own..,

[Sakura12]

That scene with them didn't really warrant any thought out back story since that whole scene was waiting for Laurel to throw her temper tantrum. 

Edited May 13, 2014 by Sakura12

[statsgirl]

 

Seems to me that Caity was talking to other actors about the character's relationships on her own.

I agree, but I wonder if the difference is in quantity and quality of what they work out.  Caity said that she and Stephen talked about how they could justify the relationship between Oliver and Sara when she arrives in Starling City.  I can see them doing that, creating a backstory and then each going off to work on how their characters would react given that, while KC has said that she spends a lot of time with PB and later AK and CL going through her character's motivations and how she would react in a given situation.  It's that depth of consultation that makes her scenes with PB better than with other characters.

[Danny Franks]

HA! Good point on Roy. I think Felicity had a red peekaboo front dress in the first episodes.  And I think Sara had a red shirt at least once.  And I'm thinking Moira had a red dress or something.   Yup. A red piece of clothing is the key. 

 

Wait, has Sally ever worn red?

 

No, no. It makes complete sense. Think about it. Slade's mask is half red. And there's a part of Slade that loves Oliver, and a crazy part that hates him. Red and black, man. This show is all about the colour red, after all.

 

Just wait until you see what Oliver and The Flash get up to when the inevitable crossover happens....

 

I just skimmed over another Guggenheim review (I can't read them in full, because it becomes clear he's making a different show that I've never even seen), and he said something about Slade abducting Laurel and Felicity, and how he (Guggenheim) wasn't going to give away which one is the one Oliver loves most (which, by the way, I still don't see how Slade could know. He's not psychic). But I don't think it really matters anyway, because if it's revealed to be Laurel, we already know he loves her. Doesn't mean they're destined. If it's Felicity, same thing. They might feel something, but it doesn't mean it will ever coalesce into more.

 

Honestly, for me, any scenario that involves Laurel's anti-presence on my screen more is a bad one. They've tried so many different tacks for the character, and none have worked, they just need to give her up as a bad job and move on.

 

The talk of method acting is a bugbear for me, at the best of times. I figure that if a person can't switch it on and off at will, then I'm just not that impressed by them as an actor. Sure, you can 'inhabit a character fully', and live out in the woods for months, or under a bridge, or whatever the fuck Daniel Day Lewis does for a role, but if you can't just stop being that character when the cameras switch off, then I worry for your sanity. And yes, I know I obliquely put Katie Cassidy in the same basket as Daniel Day Lewis there, and I'm sorry for that. But whatever she's doing might as well be called method non-acting.

[Sakura12]

Why would method acting even be necessary for Arrow? It is not a thought provoking psychological show. It's a comic book action show. Maybe that's another reason Laurel feels so out of place, everyone else is on a comic book show and Cassidy thinks she's on a different show. Which is always what it felt like whenever she's on screen and that includes in season 1. Also considering her character is not that deep or dark in the first place. So what exactly is she method acting? We barely saw her drug addict storyline and when we did I couldn't even tell she had a problem. She seemed to act exactly the same. 

 

Stephen and Catiy manage to pull of being traumatized, damaged people just fine with their regular acting. Then can have fun and joke around with the cast between takes.  

Edited May 13, 2014 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

Not to get too OT:

 

I'm a big fan of Jensen Ackles work and he's talked about how being a "method" actor tends to work against you in TV acting.  He said he might get stuck in an emotional moment or the emotions of the scene stick with him long after the camera has stopped but he learned that carrying around the persona all the time is detrimental because things are rewritten and scenes have to be redone etc and it moves so fast that method acting is almost impossible.  He said the most important thing you can do as a TV actor is hit your marks, know where the camera is, know your lines and know when to turn it off after the scene is over because something will change probably overnight.   Seems like sage advice for Cassidy.

[Sakura12]

That makes complete sense, because tv shows retcon things all the time. As we saw with the Laurel/Oliver/Sara story. The first season made it seem like Oliver was so in love with Laurel, but still cheated with her fun love to party younger sister because he was afraid of commitment.  Then this season we found out that Sara liked Oliver and Laurel made sure her younger sister didn't have a chance with him and that Oliver cheated on Laurel before Sara and even got a girl pregnant. 

 

The story was changed completely. Making whatever happened in the first season not matter much. So yeah, method acting is unnecessary in the tv world. 

Edited May 13, 2014 by Sakura12

[BkWurm1]

Except she doesn't stay in character in between takes (that I've seen) since she's posted several pictures on set with Paul, Caity, and the 4 Lances while filming 213.  She's posted photos of her and Stephen sitting in their chairs between takes during 211.  Heck there's a photo that Paul posted while they were filming one of the earlier episodes this season of Katie sitting around the set doing her nails while the crew were setting the lighting up.

 

I'm not sure I'm comfortable being a defender of KC lol, but I assumed she meant for the big emotional scenes and not all the time and was exaggerating for effect when she was talking.

[CabotCove]

The other thing that I was thinking came to play when it came to what I see as the anti-chemistry between Amell and Cassidy was how she spoke of Amell being married. She mentioned basically that it grossed her out to be kissing this married guy with a kid. I kind of liked her better for feeling that way. I wondered if she has an extra healthy respect of boundaries for off limit people (for reasons) that might make acting with them harder.

 

Oh boy she really said that, yes I understand its maybe hard for actors to act those specificic scenes,but to use words like gross thats just too much. There is a professional and tactful way to be truthful about those feelings. Seems to me like they might be too much of a personality disconnection between her and Stephen, which is partly responsible for their characters' lack of chemistry, other factors considered. 

 

 

Agreed. The Oliver/Sara kiss did feel like it came of out nowhere, but it felt more "real" than any kiss between SA and KC.

 

I still dont really understand this argument that it came from nowhere, the characters have been romantically and sexually involved before. Oliver and Sara were having an affair 6 years ago, so feelings or attraction is nothing new that they havent acted on before. In the recent episode Oliver kissed Sara on the island, and before she had told him before she used to have a huge crush on him when they were teens. Seems to me they had unfinished business upon their reunion since death seperated them twice or it was something else like the LoA. 

Edited May 14, 2014 by Conell

[Sakura12]

I don't think Sara and Nyssa just broke up. We just found out that she had been in a relationship with a woman. However Sara arrived in Starling after the Undertaking, so in the premiere she'd been there for at least 4 months. By the time Nyssa came to get her, it had been 6 months since she last saw her. So Sara was single until she hooked back up with Oliver. While 6 months isn't that long of a time, I've seen people get in relationships again a lot sooner than that. She also got in a relationship with someone she had previously been with and shared a traumatic time with.

[Alibelle]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me Sara and Oliver's kiss in 2x13 felt like it came out of nowhere because until that point in the current timeline, there hadn't been any flirting or so much as any lingering looks between the pair of them. They just felt, to me, like comfortable friends who knew each other and were aware of each other's strengths and weaknesses.  I mean, she asked about Laurel in 2x05(?) and basically just rolled her eyes at Oliver (as did we all, Sara).  There was a mild sense of lingering regret over how her own relationship with him went down, but it felt more like a nostalgia thing, rather than any active sort of crushing on him.  Their relationship was building to what I thought was going to be an epic BroTP, basically, since they weren't those people who'd had that affair anymore.  So within that context, when they were both upset and standing there in 2x13, it felt like the kiss wasn't really about the two of them heading towards a relationship, so much as the two of them falling back into an old pattern because they were both upset about other things and other people, and this was how they had reacted in the past, sort of using each other in this way, so it was an easy and comfortable choice to make, without necessarily being the smartest or wisest (or kindest, with respect to Laurel - not that they owe her anything at this point, but still, not the most thoughtful choice on their part).  And then we never saw any relationship chats between the two of them about how they felt about each other.  They were always just really reactive to what was going on around them, and the safety of the other was always a concern, and they fell into this pattern of being in a relationship, but I didn't really see the two of them connecting emotionally.  Even though, obviously, they do care about each other.  It weirdly felt like all the romance beats for their relationship, for both of them, were talking with Laurel about each other rather than actually connecting with each other themselves.  Just kinda weird.

 

Incidentally, I'm still rather hoping for that epic Arrow/Canary BroTP.  (And sort of mildly shipping Sara/Diggle.  I don't mind Lyla, but she's not particularly exciting either.  Sara needs someone who has an idea of the darkness that she's seen, but who is removed from it and is still stable and a force for good, and I think Dig could be that for her.  Oliver isn't healed enough himself yet to be that for her.  And Dig, at his core, is so nurturing and protective. Sara, on the other hand, has the capacity to be a fun and lighthearted person, even now, and Dig needs someone who can joke around a little sometimes, or he can fall into a pattern of being too serious.  Plus they'd just be so pretty together.  But I honestly wouldn't mind at all if Nyssa moves to Starling and she and Sara rekindle stuff.  Those two are super interesting, and Nyssa rocks.)

[quarks]

In Heir to the Demon, the kiss seemed to come out of nowhere because we hadn't yet seen the kiss on the island.  Here is what we did know:

 

1. Sara and Oliver ran off on the boat together.

 

2. In the first season, back on the island, Oliver spent a year of the show staring at Laurel's picture, which, significantly, he had brought along with him on this trip with her sister. In his first days back in Starling City - in show time it looked like the day he was released from the hospital, and certainly on the same day that Tommy reintroduced him to what was up in Starling, he sought Laurel out. He told Helena that Laurel was the woman he had loved and Sara was a fling. The only indication that we had otherwise came from Dinah Lance, who believed that Sara loved Oliver - but that episode showed us that Dinah was wrong about everything else with Sara, and gave no indication of Oliver's feelings.

 

This was followed by the show repeatedly telling us that Laurel was the love of Oliver's life. I'll be the first to agree that the show did a lousy job of showing us this, with the very arguable exception of the episode where Oliver ran off to save Laurel instead of helping Diggle - hardly an episode designed to get us on Laurel's side - but the script was pretty clear on this, to the point where, as we're discussing here, there are still fans that are either cheering on Laurel/Oliver or resigned to the possibility/probability that this will be coming up again despite the fact that this season their relationship unexpectedly managed to get even worse.

 

3. In this season, back on the island, prior to the hook-up: Sara, under duress, betrayed Oliver.  She also confessed to helping to conduct medical experiments on prisoners; the show hinted that she had been raped multiple times.  Slade (pre crazy), Shado and the boat prisoners noted that Sara couldn't be trusted.  She and Oliver were not physically affectionate to each other (to be fair they were getting chased by Ivo's people). Shado expressed disgust with the entire Oliver/Laurel/Sara deal (you go, Shado). Shado was killed, something that was giving Oliver nightmares and hallucinations five years later. Even after that, Sara and Oliver did not rush into each other's arms (although, again, to be fair, they were still dealing with nutcase Ivo and now nutcase Slade.)

 

Back in Starling City, Sara did not contact Oliver, or even try to contact Oliver, for weeks after her arrival. When she did reveal herself, about the first thing she was "Still always Laurel with you," implying that Sara had accepted that Oliver was still in love with Laurel. Oliver did not deny this. The two did not go, "You're ALIVE! HUG!" which is the fairly standard television response to finding out that a dead person is actually alive; indeed, they didn't touch at all. At the time I read that partly as a response to the implication that Sara had been raped multiple times and no longer wanted to be touched, but on screen it also played out as two people that no longer trusted each other, with a very strong implication that Sara had betrayed him again on the island. In her interviews at the time Lotz stated that she thought Sara was too damaged to love anyone.

 

The only hints of something more came from Oliver's side, when he took Sara to the Arrow Cave - something that we later found out was a big deal to him. However, when he did this, Sara had already figured out Oliver's secret identity - the real big deal; basically, the deal seems to be if you know Oliver's secret, you get into the Arrow Cave. And Oliver also described Sara as someone he cared about.  They also made outstanding fighting partners.

 

Shortly before Heir to the Demon, Sara told Oliver that she'd had a crush on him before he dated Laurel, our first clue this season that something else might be going on.

 

In the actual episode:

 

Oliver hurried to Laurel's bedside the moment he got a call from Quentin indicating that Laurel was in the hospital; he then kissed her on the forehead before leaving.

 

Moira noted that Felicity has feelings for Oliver (standard romantic beat).  Oliver then told Felicity that she was never going to lose him (standard romantic beat).  Felicity risked Moira's wrath and losing Oliver by telling him Moira's secret (less standard romantic beat.)

 

Sara made out with Nyssa. We found out that she had not told Oliver where she went to, so Oliver placed a tracking device on her (something he has not done to anyone else on the show; Felicity has been monitoring certain people, but not allies), which is not something done to a trusted partner. This distrust proved to be justified: Sara didn't tell Oliver what was going on. We then saw Sara die again and Oliver get upset about this.

 

Then Sara and Oliver hooked up. The actors read the script, and decided that to make this work, they had to create a background for this, so did so and took it to the showrunners - who liked the backstory enough that this was incorporated into later episodes.

 

So, yeah, that final kiss came so out of nowhere that it caught the actors by surprise and the actors felt they couldn't justify it based on the scripts they'd seen up until that point - because what we had seen on the show up until that point was two people who no longer trusted each other, much less had any romantic interest in each other.  Long term possibility, sure, and they make great fighting partners and friends, and I'd love to see more of that. But the romantic buildup didn't seem to be there this season.

 

Incidentally, the episode itself, with its focus on the rift between Moira and Oliver seemed to be leading towards Oliver heading to Isabel, Diggle or Felicity - three people who have never trusted Moira.  My personal guess, in watching the way the episodes were blocked out, was that the original plan was to have Oliver show up at Isabel's door in the last ten seconds of the episode. However, when it came time to block and film the episode, Summer Glau had a scheduling conflict. Since the showrunners still wanted to put a blockade up between Oliver and Felicity (something acknowledged in interviews), and had been planning to bring Sara back to Starling City as part of Team Arrow in any case, they went with Sara instead and adjusted the rest of their story to fit that. But that's just a guess. 

 

And to add to this already long post: I don't think that what we saw on screen so far rules out more exploration of Sara/Oliver, as friends or even potential endgame - if the final scene of the show is Sara/Oliver making out before going to fight crime, I think the show has established that can work, however oddly the actual romance was blocked and filmed.

Edited May 14, 2014 by quarks

[millahnna]

I don't entirely disagree that the kiss with Sara and Olly felt a little out of nowhere but, for me, that angle of it actually worked since I read their rekindling their relationship as being more about familiarity, history, and emotional stress than any active interest in each other in the present.

[quarks]

I found that irritating, not because of what it suggests or doesn't suggest about Oliver and Laurel - you can certainly build a lot on the "Oliver will always love Laurel" if you want, but this:

 

Oliver never wanted Laurel to know for a reason because knowledge equals danger. The people that find out his identity always find themselves in the crosshairs of trouble.

 

 

Well, yes, that's true, but Laurel was and is already in danger because every attorney on this show is in danger. Kate Spencer was just murdered last episode. The ADA was kidnapped.  And NOT knowing about Oliver's identity didn't exactly keep Laurel safe - she was kidnapped three times this year alone, and Slade was able to go right up and knock on her door anyway.

 

And it's annoying because, essentially, everyone in Starling City is in danger.  That's the whole point of the show - it's why Oliver wears a mask and a hood and runs around after criminals, to protect people in danger.  Most of Starling City still doesn't know who the Arrow really is and they are all currently in danger of getting killed by Slade's superpower army or by ARGUS bombs.

 

It's a very irritating argument. There are excellent, excellent reasons for Oliver and Laurel not to get back together, but this isn't one of them.

[KirkB]

I guess that's the most tactful argument against the pairing Stephen can give. He has to be careful about what he says so he doesn't step on any toes or appear as though he disagrees with the writing. He can't really mention the sister swapping or multitude of other reasons viewers dislike the couple.

 

 

   But why? I mean, you may be right, but he's the star of the show. He is quite literally the only member of the cast who might be able to get away with speaking out against the writing or anything else he doesn't like or agree with.

[millahnna]

Not if he wants to keep working.

[calliope1975]

Not if he wants to keep working.

 

 

Yep. It would basically be career suicide to speak out against TPTB regardless of his own personal feelings. No one wants to hire the guy who might rock the boat. 

[millahnna]

He'd probably keep this job but unless he was extremely careful about how he phrased any criticisms, he'd face a hard time at castings in the future.

[Carrie Ann]

Stephen also has to play whatever they give him, and I think there's a certain measure of Stockholm Syndrome when you're trying to understand and play a character. I'm sure he feels some level of comfort in talking to the EPs about the direction of the show, but he doesn't run it. So if they put on the page that Oliver loves Laurel, Stephen will try to understand that and then play it that way.

 

I think successful on-screen romances are a combination of good writing/acting and great chemistry, but the latter is kind of more important than the former, because you just can't create it. It's interesting to look at L/O and F/O, especially in the first season, and see how true that is. Oliver and Felicity weren't written with romantic tension until maybe the tail end of the first season, but they sparked off each other anyway. Oliver and Laurel were written as an epic, tragic love story, but they can't create a spark for anything. Thankfully the writers realized what they had with F/O, but they haven't yet accepted what they don't have with L/O. I wish they'd stop trying to make fetch happen there, because it's never going to happen.

[quarks]

I'll probably have more to say on this later, but, if the writers have any intentions of going back to Laurel/Oliver at any point, it would really help if they didn't have episodes where Laurel spends the entire episode drugged/kidnapped while Felicity works with Oliver, immediately gets his plan (whether this was set up before the house or whether she figured it out when the syringe was put into her hand) and stabs the bad guy. It's not creating a fair comparison at all.

[SleepDeprived]

And, also, if they do plan on really pursuing Laurel and Oliver as *dramatic voice* destiny, then can they please stop shooting scenes between EBR and SA where they are at the center of the frame with dramatic lighting/gorgeous scenery in the background suggesting THINGS and making the screen crackle with their electric chemistry? Because, seriously. That is now 4 times in the span of, likely, 2 days, where there was serious eye-fucking between Oliver and Felicity that some almost kissing happened!

 

Meanwhile, the actual sex scene between Oliver and Laurel in S1 was pretty freaking unremarkable and the opposite of sexy.

[BkWurm1]

And, also, if they do plan on really pursuing Laurel and Oliver as *dramatic voice* destiny, then can they please stop shooting scenes between EBR and SA where they are at the center of the frame with dramatic lighting/gorgeous scenery in the background suggesting THINGS and making the screen crackle with their electric chemistry?

 

I'm hoping they will pursue the comic destiny of the current Laurel Dinah Lance (or is it just Dinah these days?) that is married to someone else.

 

I

[pootlus]

It just occured to me that Oliver's "you don't realise the real danger is in front of you" riff could apply as easily to Laurel as it could to Slade.  All this time she was thinking the threat to her Big.Damn.Destiny with Oliver was her sister, where as in actual fact it was the nerdy blonde girl in front of her.

[ArctisTor]

The other thing that I was thinking came to play when it came to what I see as the anti-chemistry between Amell and Cassidy was how she spoke of Amell being married. She mentioned basically that it grossed her out to be kissing this married guy with a kid. I kind of liked her better for feeling that way.

 

Though that does rather seem to me like she isn't only aware the lack of on-screen chemistry between her and Amell (or, I guess, any other actor she's ever acted opposite in a romantic/sexual story), but she's also trying to explain it or give some reasoning behind it.  Also that it's potentially not going away anytime soon.  (Uhm, yay?  Stuff to look forward to in the future forcing of the Laurel/Oliver "romance" upon the series!!!)  Whether that's the actual reason or not, I don't know, but it does read as damage control to me.

 

It's also unfortunate she seems to be putting things on her and her apparent/supposed discomfort kissing a fellow actor who happens to be married with a kid.  Their lack of chemistry is a two-way street.  I'm not feeling it from Cassidy, but I'm not getting it at all from Amell either, but again, something she's probably not going to put out there or imply anything - whether there's veracity there or not - about the nature of what their professional relationship may be.

 

Though if what she says is true and I'm not even being glib with this suggestion either - if there's anything that TV could use some more representation when it comes to sexual identity, this is within that category - but the possibility Laurel could come to realize she actually has no real interest in sexual relations with Oliver or anyone else, despite any emotions or feelings?  That's she's only done to this point what she feels she's supposed to do or what she thinks the partner she loves/believes she loves wants, but hadn't ever been all that invested in it?  Might not be an unwelcome arc for that character.  Though there are so many reasons that's incredibly unlikely to happen with regard to American network TV, it's not even worth mentioning it.

[millahnna]

I've always thought their chemistry worked for awkward exes (which is why the sex scene worked for me, despite the lack of heat).  I think the writers could make their relationship work as two people who were once romantically involved, knew each other a long time, but were moving on.  I think given what's gone down on the show so far it would be understandable if the characters tried to dip towards each other one more time out of, I don't know, reflex maybe?  But I'm not sure how watchable it would be unless there was a clear arc towards them figuring out they work best as friends (and even then).

[Danny Franks]

Honestly, the writers couldn't make Laurel look less important to Oliver if they tried. In that scene where Slade brings out Laurel and Felicity, the complete focus is on Felicity, and Laurel is forgotten in the background. Completely forgotten. No one mentions her, no one looks at her. She really might as well not be there, except for her to seemingly absorb the idea that Oliver loves Felicity.

 

Felicity is there as the woman Oliver loves. The woman they're talking about in the scene is Shado. Laurel is just... there. Still, as long as she continues to just be... there, I can at least skip her scenes without having to pay any attention to her.

[BumpSetSpike]

 

The other thing that I was thinking came to play when it came to what I see as the anti-chemistry between Amell and Cassidy was how she spoke of Amell being married. She mentioned basically that it grossed her out to be kissing this married guy with a kid. I kind of liked her better for feeling that way. I wondered if she has an extra healthy respect of boundaries for off limit people (for reasons) that might make acting with them harder.

 

Please tell me this isn't true.  Where did she say this?   

 

I already dislike KC's acting ability and her ridiculous "method" needs for Laurel - but to me, this is the biggest BS line as to why there is no chemistry.  If she believes this, then she takes no responsibility that she just sucks at this role.

 

 

 

Katie Cassidy said recently that Laurel believes she and Oliver are "soulmates." Does Oliver share those same feelings?

Oliver's always going to love Laurel. He's always going to love her, period. But things change. Oliver never wanted Laurel to know for a reason because knowledge equals danger. The people that find out his identity always find themselves in the crosshairs of trouble. I think that her knowing, even though it's revealing Oliver to be the guy she always hoped he would be, at the same time, it may make it more difficult for them to have a relationship in the future beyond friendship. -Stephen Amell (http://www.hollywood...season-2-703702)

 

Maybe this is Amell's way of saying that he doesn't want to have as many "emotional scenes" with KC anymore.  He is the only one who is putting this out there, contradicting what the EPs have been feeding us for quite some time.

Edited May 15, 2014 by BumpSetSpike

[Morrigan2575]

Calgary Convention, the clips are up on YouTube. Trust me that comment about sex scenes not being sexy and really awkward isn't the bad part of that video. She follows up with something that really came off as arrogant.

[calliope1975]

Bringing my thoughts over from TWOP. 

 

I do wonder how their going to cycle Oliver through whatever woman they pair him with if it's not Felicity (and let's be real, there will be a woman - either Waller or Laurel [gag] or another one night stand.) She's such a great character that most seem to connect with and like, and you don't want to see her get screwed over. It's going to be a fine balance of keeping the pairing viable without making their lead unlikable for hurting Felicity, even indirectly. And I don't think these writers have the nuance to do that.

 

For me, I don't know if I could accept Olicity if O/L happen again. It's just so gross and toxic, and I don't my girl anywhere near that. And while I don't think Oliver is ready to be with anyone, let alone Felicity, I don't the CW will have him take a celibacy vow. 

 

Any thoughts?

[icandigit]

Felicity needs to date/boyfriend and show how it conflicts with how she spends her nights,  The typical superhero dilemma.

[Danny Franks]

Could they have Oliver just not hook up with anyone? Sure. It's always been a minor, inconsequential part of the show for me, when he's sleeping with someone. It's not like they play up the romance side of things. He just sleeps with a girl and it bites him on the arse (or she does, I guess).

 

Him not sleeping with a girl, wouldn't change anything, really. Would the season have been different if he'd not slept with Isabel? Would it have been different if he and Sara had just been friends? I don't think so. I guess it just doesn't seem like a big deal to me, if he doesn't get laid for a while.

 

If the writers do intend to push Oliver/Felicity genuinely, then they have to start preparing the ground, in terms of Oliver's ability to be in a relationship. And, unlike most TV logic, I don't think that means we have to see him in a relationship with someone else and making a good job of it. We just have to see him being more open and honest and measured in his approach to his life, and in his dealings with the woman he has developed feelings for.

 

The other course of TV logic would be, 'it's time for Felicity to get a boyfriend, so Oliver can be jealous'. Well, I don't think that would work either. We've seen Oliver completely compartmentalise his emotions, back when he thought he was in love with Laurel and she was with Tommy. I don't think jealousy is something he lets himself feel, outside of the bouts of pettiness we've seen regarding Barry. Giving Felicity a boyfriend would just be done to serve angst and to provide a roadblock, just as giving Oliver a girlfriend would. Neither are necessary, in my view.

 

But this is all progress for Oliver Queen. In season one, he had his crusade and he saw it through. He stopped the Undertaking and saved the city. In season two he wanted to become a hero, and what was the last thing he said to Slade in the finale? "You made me a hero". Job done. Season three? Where does he go now? My guess is that it should be about him starting to want to have happiness and fulfilment in his life.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Danny Franks

[GirlWednesday]

Katie Cassidy said recently that Laurel believes she and Oliver are "soulmates." Does Oliver share those same feelings?

Oliver's always going to love Laurel. He's always going to love her, period..

Some of you are scarred by Smallville, I'm scarred by Dawson's Creek and their soulmates shtick. I hated it with a rage of thousand burning suns.

If the show goes back to storytelling and character development with substance and not rush through the anthology of DC comic book characters, I'll appreciate it, regardless of who Oliver ends up with.

[quarks]

I think the show is going to try to do a balancing act between keeping Oliver mostly celibate in the present timeline and with Waller (sigh) in the past timeline. I also predict that Waller is going to be my least favorite of Oliver's girlfriends, far surpassing even Laurel.  This may be residual bitterness from the "sure, I'm willing to blow a city of 600,000 to bits even though as it turns out a simple BAZOOKA can take out these goons and, yes, they die when their necks are broken so my overkill response to this makes even LESS sense than it did originally." Possibly.

 

The producers have said they want Arrow/Flash crossovers, so I expect lots of Barry and Felicity teasing; I also expect some Laurel and Oliver teasing which will send me to go AUUGH.  And Helena might be back, which could be very interesting. 

[statsgirl]

 

Season three? Where does he go now? My guess is that it should be about him starting to want to have happiness and fulfilment in his life.

Which could play into seeing Diggle with Lyla and baby (which hopefully will be born before the season starts because no good can come of birth dramatics). This is the happiness that Diggle has... will Oliver let himself feel that too?

 

I'm glad you don't see a problem with Oliver being celibate next season because I don't see how they can have him sleep with anyone else now that we've seen he has feelings for Felicity. It would not only make him a man-whore again, the audience would probably be on Felicity's side even if she does think he doesn't have feelings for her.  The only possible exception would be an old girlfriend on a FWB basis but he's been there, done that, with Sara.

 

I'm not really liking the idea of teasing Felicity with Barry either because knowing Oliver and his sainthood mission, he'd just let it happen so that she could be happy.  Besides, after seeing the 5 minute The Flash promo, I'm more inclined to ship Barry with Caitlin (but that may be affected by my Simmons/anybody-but-Fitz sentiments).

[GirlWednesday]

Yeah Caitlin and Barry worked for me too. Not too interested in that Iris. Hopefully they avoid the weight of canon on that show.

[Lisin]

Hey guys, we have a Flash forum over here! If you want to talk about that show over there have at it :)

[KirkB]

The only issue I can see with Arrow/Flash crossovers is every time a serious situation comes up where time is of the essence, a lot of the audience is going to wonder why doesn't Oliver just call Barry?

[millahnna]

Meh, Sounds like an actress doing their PR duties with limited information to me.  Everything in her quotes is pretty much what I would expect anyone with her role to be saying at various points within the story (i.e. if she continued to say such things after a different couple was established in a "soulmates on tv" kind of way, then I'd question her comments more).