S18.E13: Genes

[WendyCR72]

Database updated and, yeah, "Genes" is airing. I have left the "Know It All" thread up since it airs a week after.

An investigation hits a nerve with Benson when a suspect claims his genetics causes him to commit rape.

[RafaelBarbas]

There were parts of the episode I didn't like- like Olivia worrying Noah's perfectly normal behaviors would lead him to be a rapist- but overall it was a nice episode I think.

[QueenMab]

Oh c'mon. Is that all you got? Spill it. Any Barba? Was Benson the Saviour once again? We got two hours here on the west coast....need dish.

[RafaelBarba35]

2 minutes ago, QueenMab said:

Oh c'mon. Is that all you got? Spill it. Any Barba? Was Benson the Saviour once again? We got two hours here on the west coast....need dish.

From what i read on Twitter quite a bit of Barba, lots of Rollins and Carisi working together, Carisi sounding unCarisiish near the end, Liv pops up to save the day at the end, and a little Benoah scene since Liv spends half the episode woring about Noah becoming a rapist because genes. 

[QueenMab]

Thanks! Guess I'll watch, even if Barba trots around behind Benson on a leash. Be nice to see him again. :)

[Snookums]

Well, coulda been worse. It was an interesting twist on the rape mentality, and it was a fresh take on the "echo chamber" effect of a well meaning person or group essentially talking themselves into what they already believe, whether it's an "excuse" for rape or an excuse for not accepting you are in charge of your life.

Sam, the guy who raped the three women, was the predator who simply found a way to have his horrible cake and eat it too--that it's okay to violate somebody as long as you're sorry afterwards. The rapist who assaulted the bartender was a weak person who was too ashamed to face the fact that he wanted to rape her and tried to blame it on the relief of an imaginary gene that took away his responsibility rather than finding real help that could have actually done something for him. And the last kid was basically convinced that every single thing he did was horrible and he deserved to die and wasn't getting any message that that was not so.

While the group leader may have been sincere he also clearly thrived on bossing the group around and being right. He doesn't actually want these guys to get better; he wants them to constantly feel needy and on the edge so they'll never leave him. Talk about a predator.

We rag Olivia a lot, but at least this T!I!P! has some basis in her storyline and Noah's, and when she was telling the kid that who your parents are doesn't make you evil or bad or doomed it was really nicely done. She and Barba had such nice chemistry, too--they've got a real His Girl Friday-type banter whenever the writers have the wit to make use of it.

[Xeliou66]

Overall, a middle of the pack episode. The case was interesting enough, I liked the twist of the one rape being solved quickly and leading to the other serial rapist. It was nice to have some courtroom scenes and to see Barba again, he had a nice size role and Benson didn't boss him around. It was also interesting to see Strauss, the former DA who went after Benson after the Lewis case, as the defense lawyer, but no reference was ever made to how he got there.

The whole rape group thing was interesting, I was laughing at the scene where the first rapist was wearing a wire and everything went nuts, like Carisi said it felt like a parody skit. It was interesting though, I for one couldn't stand the group leader who almost drove Will to suicide through all of his bullshit, and he was blatantly  covering up for a piece of shit serial rapist. Fuck him. 

On the other hand, there was no Fin which sucked, and there was a ton of Benson melodrama complete with the usual overacting from MH. The whole crap about Benson worrying that Noah will become a rapist is a pathetic storyline, it just shows how little Benson believes any men can be good, and she takes normal things that kids do and thinks "oh that means he could be a rapist". Seriously? And did anyone pay attention to Mariska's facial expressions in the courtroom scenes once again? Truly hilarious. 

I did like seeing Lindstrom again, he provides a good voice of reason and can get through to Benson. 

[angel1008]

Had to love Barba going after the "pastor" with his employment at "Bunnies"!  The way Barba kept saying it cracked me up.  I love it when he has someone by the short ones!

[Gigi43]

Good amount of Barba, I loved him when the "minister" was on the stand in the evidence hearing. His delivery was great throughout but I especially loved how he corrected/emphasized the church was a "Dot. Com." I missed a scene and I didn't feel like I really missed anything until Carisi started in at the end about a case he showed Barba. Did showing him that happen on screen? Figures that would be what I miss! I liked Carisi and Rollins in the van with Carisi saying it's like a SNL skit. (ETA: the repeating of Bunnies was good too!)

 

I like Lindstrom but some of this hour of Benson Taking It Personally, was all over the place. I mean was the implication with Lindstrom that she "she's been violent" like her father suppose to be a reference to when she beat Lewis? The Rageaholics have been her partners, not her. Then she flipped to being worried about Noah, then she used her father to talk to the guy on the roof and the end with her standing over Noah saying "she'd love him no matter what" was creepy. I wish it would have ended with what Barba said to  Benson and them parting ways. All the ending did was make me believe Liv was about to spend Noah's whole life preparing for him to do something terrible despite her knowing better at times and at some point that's going to be terrible for Noah when he's older. It sucks that Finn wasn't around to point out that Liv's brother has done some things that were desperate and impulsive, but he's not really a bad person, nor has he raped anyone, even after being falsely accused and finding out his father had.  But then again maybe it's for the best because that would have given Liv even more screentime and considering some of the episodes lately, this was one of the more even one in terms of getting to see non-Liv characters in action.

 

The case reminded me a lot of the old one where a teenager confessed to Liv he has thoughts about touching his 5yr old step brother, and then they find out about the guy running the "look but don't touch" website, run by the guy that Stabler (...speaking of rage) nearly killed when he put a pic of one of Stabler's kids on the site for spite.

 

Over all, not a bad one.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Gigi43

[wknt3]

The Good:
NBC actually deigned to air an episode.
Solid premise well executed.
Good acting from both the regulars and the guest cast with the exception of Mariska in some scenes.
Another show where they actually let Carisi and Rollins work the case and Benson didn't do everything. She did save the day at the end of course, but I could live with that since she wasn't doing all the police work herself.
Lots of Barba! Real Barba too, not pod Barba. It was nice to see him running the show on the courtroom side and even though there were a lot of scenes with him and Benson they were consulting and it wasn't him taking orders from her. They even remembered Carisi is interested in the law!

The Bad:
No Fin. Like actually none. And we could have used some dark humor. I hope Ice T was filming an insurance commercial or a reality show or something and wasn't absent because of health issues or because they've cut the cast budget again.
The Benoah drama. It made sense and was organic, but they still needed to cut back on the Sledgehammer of Angst. And a note to the driector - when Mariska is overemoting like that you don't need the closeup on his picture.
The stakeout scene would be a good place to actually have the CO on scene supervising as it's a complicated situation with many officers and lots of potential complications. Why couldn't we have Benson running the op and let Carisi or even Rollins talk to the victim at the hospital? Although maybe they thought viewers would find all that backup and competent execution of a contigency plan unbelievable for a Liv op?

Overall this was quite good. Good ensemble action and competently written legal drama. If you dialed back Liv Taking!It!Personally! you would have a very good to excellent show, but she didn't ruin it for me so that puts it above the season average. I'm hoping the promo for next week is misleading because it doesn't look promising...

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm....lots of Barba, which is always a good thing, so I can't complain about that. I always like to see the show build legal cases around somewhat ambiguous cases (though thankfully this case was an actual crime and not the preposterousness that was "Imposter"). It was also interesting to see some professional tension between Barba and Carisi, and honestly, I think some more time could have been better served by the process that went into throwing out the group confession and the case law precedence behind it, because as much fun as it was to see Barba and Carisi go at each other, there was zero context for us to understand it, since from our perspective, it came out of nowhere. Of course I would love to see Barba and Carisi collaborate more, since building this case was more compelling to me than the whole debate about rape genes. Maybe it would have been better for the defendant to try and use that crap excuse as his defense and see Barba build his prosecution around that. Basically I think this episode would have benefited from MORE Law and less Order. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by ForeverAlone

[Primetimer]

The team discovers a support group for children of violence who blame their own bad tendencies on their genetics. Too bad they didn't discover Olivia first.

View the full article

[sockii]

I think I've well and truly reached my limit with this show as it is right now. When there's no Fin to add either some humor or a reality-check, the show is just way too dour, preachy, and uncomfortable to watch, for me. I literally cringe whenever Benson is on screen at this point, and the only takeaway I got from this episode is that she seriously is overdue for transferring out of SVU if she can't handle Noah "fighting" over a toy without imagining he's a rapist in the making.

I keep finding everyone's performances just strangely *off* lately, this episode in particular. Either too flat, or too over-the-top. Whether it's the directing, the scripts, the actors being tired of these roles or what, I just don't feel like I recognize them anymore or find them believable characters.

And season 3's "Inheritance" covered this subject matter better, anyway.

[Gigglepuff]

Liv, don't worry about the costs of Noah's fancy preschool. Instead, squirrel that money away for the immense amount of therapy he'll need if you continue to interpret his every move as that of a potential/future rapist. She's gonna f that kid up if she doesn't knock it off. And the whole, "I'll love you, no matter what," was so damn creepy and heavy-handed, that Liv may as well send him straight off to jail.  Like Sockii said, Benson needs to get out of SVU. Oh, I get that she is the superhero for rape victims, and there's no one else on the planet like her, but this is one time where she needs to put her cape down and think of her family first. 

 

Writers, EPs, whoever.....when you want to tell us a story, you don't literally have to sledgehammer a "plot" home to us. We're not as dumb as you think. Use some subtlety. "It's in my genes to be a rapist." C'mon. They could have at least argued a bit of nature vs. nurture instead of weighing heavily on, "it's my genes." 

[VioletMarx]

I've been out of the SVU loop for a while. Who are Noah's biological parents and where are they?

[ForeverAlone]

Noah's biological parents were a prostitute, Ellie Porter, and the human trafficker/pimp, Johnny D that broke her in. Both have since been killed. 

[skittl3862]

7 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

The case reminded me a lot of the old one where a teenager confessed to Liv he has thoughts about touching his 5yr old step brother, and then they find out about the guy running the "look but don't touch" website, run by the guy that Stabler (...speaking of rage) nearly killed when he put a pic of one of Stabler's kids on the site for spite.

I thought of that same episode last night- Confession. Someone who hadn't committed a crime yet seeking help to prevent themself from acting on the urges. On that note- how did Will the choir boy find this creepy rape support group in the first place? Do they have a subreddit or something? If they hadn't spent 20 minutes on Jessica's case, I would have liked to know how these men came across each other in life, and trusted each other enough to disclose their crimes.

On what planet is a young blonde woman in New York responsible for locking up a bar in the middle of the night ALONE? Is there not a bouncer? Coworkers? Do SVU characters not live in the real world? Yeah yeah, victim blaming, men should just not rape, but I worked at a suburban mall in college and everyone who closed walked out together for safety.  It just seems...unrealistically dumb that no one in Jessica's world questioned this.

Why did Benson re-interview the victim at the hospital? The entire scene consisted of "You told my detectives [repeats line from previous scene]." It was such a useless scene of repeated information. That should have seen the cutting room floor. Can you imagine Cragen showing up to re-interview a victim after Benson and Stabler? Why did they bother promoting her to head SVU if they never intended to shift her role on the show? Why not start doing the Morris Commissions again or other types of scenes that show her on the bureaucracy side of NYPD if they want her to have the screentime?

Sam the River Rapist sounds way more interesting than Jessica's rape. Why was the episode not entirely about him instead of spending half an hour on Nick? Carisi also said "We'll talk to the detectives on that case." Shouldn't SVU be on that case? Why did SVU completely take it over someone else's case to make the arrest, interrogate him and take him to court if other detectives are already working it?

I thought the defense attorney was the Brooklyn DA for the William Lewis trial. Is he supposed to be the same character? Did he switch sides like John Cullum?

[Xeliou66]

Yeah I know, it is really creepy how Benson thinks Noah fighting over a toy ( which all young kids do ) means he's going to be a rapist. She's going to screw him up badly if she continues to bring her distrust of men home to her own son. I really can't stand Benson, her preachiness and condescending tone combined with MH's extreme overacting makes her unbearable now. Mariska's facial expressions are truly hilarious if you pay attention to them.

Why didn't they show a scene with Carisi and Barba arguing over the case that Carisi wanted Barba to use before Carisi blew up at him? They should've had that scene instead of the worthless Noah scene at the end. 

On the other hand, I really like how they've made Rollins into a professional detective instead of a screw up who sleeps with her colleagues. 

[wknt3]

1 hour ago, skittl3862 said:

On what planet is a young blonde woman in New York responsible for locking up a bar in the middle of the night ALONE? Is there not a bouncer? Coworkers? Do SVU characters not live in the real world? Yeah yeah, victim blaming, men should just not rape, but I worked at a suburban mall in college and everyone who closed walked out together for safety.  It just seems...unrealistically dumb that no one in Jessica's world questioned this.

Yeah I noticed that too. There are liability issues, safety issues, and the fact that it makes it a little harder to steal.
 

Quote

Why did Benson re-interview the victim at the hospital? The entire scene consisted of "You told my detectives [repeats line from previous scene]." It was such a useless scene of repeated information. That should have seen the cutting room floor. Can you imagine Cragen showing up to re-interview a victim after Benson and Stabler? Why did they bother promoting her to head SVU if they never intended to shift her role on the show? Why not start doing the Morris Commissions again or other types of scenes that show her on the bureaucracy side of NYPD if they want her to have the screentime?

I guess it was so we would know that no victim doesn't get the blessing of receiving Liv's empathy in person and she's still working every case in the field. As I mentioned they could have given her the same amount of screen time and had it make sense if she was there for the meeting, and they showed Carisi and Rollins doing all the interviews.

 

41 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I know, it is really creepy how Benson thinks Noah fighting over a toy ( which all young kids do ) means he's going to be a rapist. She's going to screw him up badly if she continues to bring her distrust of men home to her own son. I really can't stand Benson, her preachiness and condescending tone combined with MH's extreme overacting makes her unbearable now. Mariska's facial expressions are truly hilarious if you pay attention to them.

Of course she assumes that normal quirks and childhood misbehavior will inevitably lead to crime and pathology. She spent all those years watching Stabler's kids after all...
 

Quote

On the other hand, I really like how they've made Rollins into a professional detective instead of a screw up who sleeps with her colleagues.

Yes now she only sleeps with her colleagues if they are hot, look great in three piece suits, and babysit and do her housework for her. :-) Seriously though I have to agree. Pushing the reset button on her was the right decision and I am willing to cut them some slack when they need to ignore past history or retcon it to do so.

[CelticBlackCat]

@ wknt3:  Great post (I Liked it) but there's no evidence that Rollins and Carisi have anything but a platonic relationship as of now.

Everything in this episode was going great, until Olivia started angsting about Noah's future proclivities because of his genes, even though she adamantly stated that it was ridiculous for that to be a thing when interviewing the bartender victim.  I also thought why in the hell is she walking alone in the middle of the night to her car?  The last scene of Benoah for St. O's overactive face time on screen just ruined an otherwise almost perfect epi.  (No Fin was not good either.)

[wknt3]

8 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

@ wknt3:  Great post (I Liked it) but there's no evidence that Rollins and Carisi have anything but a platonic relationship as of now.

Yeah and I'm hoping they never go full Rollisi. As much as they do have great chemistry putting them together explicitly only brings up a past that they're correctly glossing over and will never be as fun as leaving it open to interpretation. The only way I would be happy to see them do it would be they avoided all troubled relationship cliches and it built up to a scene where Rollins tells Benson that yes it's hard with being a single mother and the demanding job and everything, but she was willing to make it work and she wasn't selfish and stupid enough to give up on a great man who was supportive, understanding, good looking, and great with her kid as soon as they needed to compromise. And she wasn't going to blame her past traumas and her job for making a stupid choice.

[skittl3862]

4 hours ago, wknt3 said:

The only way I would be happy to see them do it would be they avoided all troubled relationship cliches and it built up to a scene where Rollins tells Benson that yes it's hard with being a single mother and the demanding job and everything, but she was willing to make it work and she wasn't selfish and stupid enough to give up on a great man who was supportive, understanding, good looking, and great with her kid as soon as they needed to compromise. And she wasn't going to blame her past traumas and her job for making a stupid choice.

You mean like Benson did? Heh.

Did this episode feel choppy to anyone? There was that whole exchange where Carisi gets mad at Barba for not using that case he gave him...which we didn't see. I literally rewatched (well, FF to the Barba scenes) to see if I had missed something. Nope. It didn't exist. Seems odd to hang such an intense confrontation between the characters based on an interaction that wasn't portrayed onscreen.

Also the penultimate scene- it cuts from "Call him" at the courthouse to finding Will on a roof, halfway over a ledge and mid-sentence. No transition or anything. Nothing of how they found him on the roof in the first place. If he was really suicidal, would he really answer a call, then hang out and wait for the cops to show up?

The scene with Noah was fine, but that set looked like they threw it together in 5 minutes because someone had a "great idea" on the last day. It didn't look very well set-dressed for a 4-year-old boy's room and it was probably such a tight shot because all that existed was that one wall and the bed.

I didn't hate the episode. It's nowhere near No Surrender levels of bad. It's just odd that they rescheduled all these episodes and aired something that felt like an unpolished, rough draft of an episode instead of a finished product.

[Gigi43]

23 minutes ago, skittl3862 said:

 

Did this episode feel choppy to anyone? There was that whole exchange where Carisi gets mad at Barba for not using that case he gave him...which we didn't see. I literally rewatched (well, FF to the Barba scenes) to see if I had missed something. Nope. It didn't exist. Seems odd to hang such an intense confrontation between the characters based on an interaction that wasn't portrayed onscreen.

Also the penultimate scene- it cuts from "Call him" at the courthouse to finding Will on a roof, halfway over a ledge and mid-sentence. No transition or anything. Nothing of how they found him on the roof in the first place. If he was really suicidal, would he really answer a call, then hang out and wait for the cops to show up?

 

 

Oh so I guess  the Barba /CarIsi scene wasn't  the one I  missed. Maybe it was cut out because  it references whatever happens with the hacking thing this episode  was originally  suppose to air after. Or since it didn't have Benson there was no point in filming it at all. Magically finding the kid on the roof is the kind of quick half assed stuff I'm  use to on this show but that Carisi/Barba scene not existing at all it bad even for this shows current low standard. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Gigi43

[QueenMab]

Carisi went from worshipping Barba to chewing Barbas ass in one episode. I feel something went down in the hacking episode that changed Carisi toward Barba. Carisi has a Bar License but has never practised law. That's a crappy move to make on an ADA who has for years. But Carisi acted like he had the right. Carisi knows Barba's secret. And its something that made him lose respect for Barba. IMO the "secret" is about Barba/Benson. Carisi very full of himself now with Barba. How come?

[Xeliou66]

Yeah I hope they never put Rollins and Carisi together, they are better off just as friends. I'm hoping Rollins has learned from her mistakes and won't be jumping in bed with another co worker, I actually don't mind Rollins now, it was a very good move to change her character and make her professional and reasonable now..

About the Barba/Carisi scene, you are reading way too much into that. There is no Barba secret, it's more crap from the lying stupid SVU showrunners, just like the crap about the Army Ranger episode being a Fin centered episode. The hacker episode will be another St Olivia hour, just watch, and there is no big Barba secret and it certainly won't be referenced again. I would've liked a prior scene to set the stage for Carisi exploding at Barba, but I liked it. Carisi worshipping Barba got old fast, I'm glad to see Carisi stand up to him and get frustrated, and it made sense that Carisi looked into prior cases about what constitutes a privileged group, since he has an interest in the law. 

[QueenMab]

Yeah, I didn't mean it was going to be a BFD, just maybe something that irked Carisi , maybe about Barba, since this episode was supposed to come first. If shown in order we might have the context for Carisi getting snarky. He passed the Bar but he has yet to be a practicing lawyer with trial experience. I thought Barba was a mouthy lawyer but he didn't defend himself very well...I swear he stuttered a bit. Why didn't he shut the rookie lawyer down? The re shuffling of these episodes is doing just what I thought it would....confuse the hell out of the audience. I stated on another post that a hacker out to destroy Benson and Barba could take something "innocent" and make it into a career wrecker given how rabid the press/internet can be nowadays....that's what I meant.

I meant the hacker epi

sode came first!

[Xeliou66]

I don't think Carisi's blow up at Barba had anything to do with the hacker episode and that you are reading way too much into it. The hacker episode will be a big ado about nothing just like Fin supposedly revisiting his past in the Army Ranger episode. It certainly wouldn't be referenced again like you are saying this episode was doing. Don't trust what the writers are saying

[QueenMab]

Carisi's blow up comes out of the blue. There is no context for it in this episode. Barba is the guy that helped him pass the Bar, let him "shadow

Shadow him and arranged a ADA interview in Brooklyn. All of a sudden, Car is I thinks Barba is a hack? Doesn't figure. This out of order episode thing is messed up.

[Xeliou66]

I think it was just a case of the writers not thinking to add context to it because a Carisi-Barba law debate scene wouldn't involve St Olivia and how dare they do that when they can have a Benson-Noah scene at the end, because we all know that it's the Mariska show and they will give her as many scenes as possible and throw Noah in as well because that's what the fangirls want. It was just the stupid writers not thinking to add in context. I have to say, I liked seeing Carisi get pissed, it was something different and understandable because it was a frustrating situation. 

[devious455]

36 minutes ago, QueenMab said:

Carisi's blow up comes out of the blue.

I don't think that. Carisi acted superior to Amanda and Fin lately, now he thinks he knows better than Barba. He become smug know-it-all. I hope we are not supposed to believe that Carisi was right and Barba is an idiot. Carisi acted like only he cares about victims so he can show his frustration in such manner. How about some respect to senior colleague? Even if he thinks his idea was better there is no way he had a right to yell at Barba in front of others. He continues to be irritating jerk that ruins the show for me so I skipped most of the episode. No Fin, Benson and Noah drama and Carisi in every scene is not what I need to watch. Barba was great though.

Benson acted normal around Barba and there is 99% chance that she knows his secret. So if she is ok with it why should Carisi lose respect for Barba? I don't think it's related, they probably just wanted to give some tension to the characters.  

[JeezumCrow]

On 3/23/2017 at 7:54 AM, angel1008 said:

Had to love Barba going after the "pastor" with his employment at "Bunnies"!  The way Barba kept saying it cracked me up.  I love it when he has someone by the short ones!

This, to the Nth power. Raúl has such a way with his tone. It's magnificent - and, often, hilarious. 

[ShortyMac]

23 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

@ wknt3:  Great post (I Liked it) but there's no evidence that Rollins and Carisi have anything but a platonic relationship as of now.

Everything in this episode was going great, until Olivia started angsting about Noah's future proclivities because of his genes, even though she adamantly stated that it was ridiculous for that to be a thing when interviewing the bartender victim.  I also thought why in the hell is she walking alone in the middle of the night to her car?  The last scene of Benoah for St. O's overactive face time on screen just ruined an otherwise almost perfect epi.  (No Fin was not good either.)

This.

[Gigi43]

15 hours ago, QueenMab said:

Carisi's blow up comes out of the blue. There is no context for it in this episode. Barba is the guy that helped him pass the Bar, let him "shadow

Shadow him and arranged a ADA interview in Brooklyn. All of a sudden, Car is I thinks Barba is a hack? Doesn't figure. This out of order episode thing is messed up.

 

Personally, I think it's out of the blue just because it actually  was for us viewers. Had the writers wrote or aired the scene Carisi was mad about then we would have had actual context instead of two actors doing the best they could to reference an  apparent  dispute  that didn't  play out. Maybe  it was filmed and they cut it and they had  Barba really being a dick so Carisi blew. Maybe it is suppose to be some set up of Carisi getting  an ego or eventually  going into the ADA side of things. Or perhas the two actors read that scene, went "wtf? Are we missing pages?" And since  they work around Mariska's over acting just went full force. Anything's possible here. 

 

I really want to know if this whole Carisi gave Barba a case thing was filmed but cut or never done at all.

[QueenMab]

Now that you mention MH's overacting....am I the only one who just cracks up when she does that big, dead eyed STARE? Like when Barba says "we're screwed" and she stands there with her stringy hair down the sides of her big face, no neck, and stares and stares and stares and never blinks and I think " my God woman, BLINK! You look like a crazy woman!" Is she in a trance? Paralyzed with fear? She looks like she's going to raise an ax over her head and go nuts with it. They do it every episode and I guess it's some kind of "dramatic pause" but its so insane looking I crack up every time. It isn't dramatic, she just looks like a crazy woman who might flip out any second! Please SVU...stop the dead eyed, crazy woman stare...its not working, its just hilarious!

[Monkeybball]

I thought this was an interesting case/episode and I like that they added a little more legal drama into it (i.e. the preliminary hearing regarding the privilege issue surrounding the "confession").  What I didn't like, and haven't been liking for awhile now, is this sort of "ADA's Assistant" role that Olivia is taking on with Barba.  "So what if WE lose the motion?"  Shut up Olivia.  No cops are that involved on the legal level.  It's ANNOYING.  She. Can't. Do. EVERYTHING.

I liked the issue being about the genes thing, because it really is such a cop out that it almost drove a completely innocent kid to kill himself.  I kinda wish we had one more scene with the bartender victim from the beginning.  It IS interesting that that guy rapist, I think his name was Nick, did have both a father AND a brother who have been in jail for rape.  

I'm really over Olivia being so angsty about Noah.  And BTW, didn't Huang and her sort of go over the reason WHY her father turned into a rapist so late in life? Like he was on medication for depression that caused sexual dysfunction, etc etc. Obviously it doesn't excuse anything but it makes him slightly different than your run of the mill "rape gene" type rapist.  Also, Noah's dad was a pimp....also a little different than a "regular" rapist (although he did rape).  Btw his mother was a drug-addict hooker too, where's that worry Olivia?

I missed Finn.

Also, I know there's a new show runner this season, but did they get new writers as well?  I've been really noticing how clunky and awkward a lot of the dialogue has been in the last few episodes.  Rollins and Benson in her office talking about her father; Carisi and Barba yelling at each other with no real context/background and then it not being addressed much at all after.  The best dialogue IMO was in the car shop with the guy they originally suspected, cause he was funny as hell.

[wknt3]

On 3/25/2017 at 10:43 AM, Gigi43 said:

Personally, I think it's out of the blue just because it actually  was for us viewers. Had the writers wrote or aired the scene Carisi was mad about then we would have had actual context instead of two actors doing the best they could to reference an  apparent  dispute  that didn't  play out. Maybe  it was filmed and they cut it and they had  Barba really being a dick so Carisi blew. Maybe it is suppose to be some set up of Carisi getting  an ego or eventually  going into the ADA side of things. Or perhas the two actors read that scene, went "wtf? Are we missing pages?" And since  they work around Mariska's over acting just went full force. Anything's possible here.

I think you're on the right track here about it being poor execution rather than anything significant as far as plot or character. I think that they realized they had pretty much dropped the ball on the Carisi studying law plot and were trying to do something with it. They were going for a Lupo/Cutter type eager law student/experienced hot shot DA conflicting POVs argument and it came off as more than it was supposed to a lot of viewers because of poor editing, poor writing, the fact that it was a plot thread that had been ignored for so long that we had forgotten there was supposed to be some mentor/student tension, or all of the above.

[debraran]

On 3/23/2017 at 10:23 PM, CelticBlackCat said:

@ wknt3:  Great post (I Liked it) but there's no evidence that Rollins and Carisi have anything but a platonic relationship as of now.

Everything in this episode was going great, until Olivia started angsting about Noah's future proclivities because of his genes, even though she adamantly stated that it was ridiculous for that to be a thing when interviewing the bartender victim.  I also thought why in the hell is she walking alone in the middle of the night to her car?  The last scene of Benoah for St. O's overactive face time on screen just ruined an otherwise almost perfect epi.  (No Fin was not good either.)

I agree, there is a lot of children born from people that were bad that are perfectly fine, mental illness might be hereditary but many people are the way they are from their upbringing. To see Olivia act this way is alarming since she adopted him knowing all this and it makes it seem like she is using him to work out her own issues.

I know it's just a show, but when Olivia works, she isn't 9-5, she works until 10 or 11 some days, makes mention of how late it is on some shows, who watches her kid? I have been watching more spotty now and don't know if it's a constant person. No reason a single parent can't work, but it seems as a cop that works late all the time, having a young child must be very difficult.

[Iguessnot]

I found this episode to be an embarrassment. After all the seasons we've watched, how could Olivia just sum up her life's work as a chase for gene mutants? The first case was solved in about an instant and the second prep was delivered on a platter. I don't even know what to make of the whiny gene victim portrayals. Even at the end when Barba asked the guy if he saw the man who confessed to raping 3 women, the man didn't say anything until Barba nodded at him. How does that not look like a setup. Of course there's no cross examination because this episode was just a pathetic vehicle for some Olivia angst. And half the time she's just hanging around the scene making strange faces and nodding.

[katisha]

This episode was pretty crap, in my view.  The show REALLY needs Fin around, as some have said upthread.  At least they tried something different with the rapist support group proving pivotal to the case, but why did it have to end up with St Olivia saving the day...again, by telling someone else about her father being a rapist...AGAIN. 

On another note, if you watch old episodes from time to time, as I do, you can really see the deterioration in Mariska's acting.  Not only does her face not seem to move anymore (overdoing the Botox?) but I swear even her voice has changed.  She speaks far more robotically and with less animation than she used to and it makes her (and therefore Olivia) sound bored and as though even she's lost interest.  

Edited March 29, 2017 by katisha

[angel1008]

On 3/24/2017 at 0:08 PM, skittl3862 said:

Did this episode feel choppy to anyone? There was that whole exchange where Carisi gets mad at Barba for not using that case he gave him...which we didn't see. I literally rewatched (well, FF to the Barba scenes) to see if I had missed something. Nope. It didn't exist. Seems odd to hang such an intense confrontation between the characters based on an interaction that wasn't portrayed onscreen.

 

 

That is because they spent too much time on Liv and Lindstrom and worrying about Noah becoming a rapist.  If they would cut back a little on Liv, and let the other characters shine, the show would be better.  How are we supposed to know what went down with Barba and Carisi if they do not show it?  Carisi had a case he showed Barba, but Barba is probably only allowed to look at cases that Liv gets.  I really miss the old format.  The crime happens, detectives investigate, find the perp and then off to court they go.  This constant soap opera angle is insane.

Edited March 30, 2017 by angel1008

[candall]

Ooh.  Husky-whisper "I'm the product of a rape" Olivia + Noah = Delete.

[DaynaPhile]

Raul and his repeated delivery of the "Bunnies" line saved the whole thing.