S03.E14: Attack on Central City

[maxineofarc]

39 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

But they were classmates and friends before Nora was murdered, and Barry was already had non-sibling feelings for even then. So their being together and in adult love doesn't bother me.

Absolutely, it's a YMMV, but a pretty divisive one. For me, I don't feel enough chemistry between the actors to make it work, but many do. And I will take any further thoughts on that to whatever board they belong on! :)

I almost forgot: Cisco can vibe people now? He can see through time, portal across dimensions, and now he's also an empath. He's quietly become one of the most powerful metas on the show and it doesn't seem like he or anybody else has really paid much attention to that.

[Ottis]

15 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

His foster sister.  There is no blood relationship between them.

That doesn't matter. If you are raised with someone from a young age who is your sister, then that's your sister. There are all kinds of blended families. I doubt many encourage the blended kids who grew up as siblings to marry.

[Richness]

OK, CW. If you're going to do Valentine's Day episodes, air them closer to Valentine's Day, and preferably before VD actually strikes. Two weeks after is way too late to air them. It was tolerable for your other shows, but this is downright annoying. The one Christmas related episode was understandable since that's your usual hiatus, but not this.

 

HR still annoys the crap out of me. I will admit he has his moments where he contributes to the team, but even a broken clock is right twice a day, but is completely useless at other times. With that said, I was not happy to hear Harry's growling voice back. Plus, Harry was an absolute douche in this episode, so I couldn't enjoy him otherwise. So thrilled Jessie shot his death ploy down so quickly. 

 

Also wasn't thrilled with three speedsters just standing around waiting for Dad to pull the trigger like complete idiots. The nukes outside the fort in a mobile platform also seemed rather silly. I suspect Flash could have ran back to the lab, grabbed some tools, ran back, and disassembled the thing quicker than he could have entered the codes. Or, I don't know, maybe have pulled the missiles out of the launcher and sped them out into the dessert to create a Firestorm lizard.

 

I really hope Iris says no to Barry. While the speed of the romance doesn't bother me, it seems like they're doing it for the wrong reasons, especially if Barry wants to get married before Savitar kills her. Way to pressure the girl you love there, Barry. But kudos for creating epic romance, even if one is a fire hazard.

[Trini]

6 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

They still grew up together as children with the same parental figure in the same home. There are people who are going to find this icky, and I confess I am one of them.

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

That doesn't matter. If you are raised with someone from a young age who is your sister, then that's your sister. There are all kinds of blended families. I doubt many encourage the blended kids who grew up as siblings to marry.

Anyone can feel however they want about it, but using "sister" to describe the relationship of Iris to Barry is just incorrect and inaccurate.

[Trini]

I liked the previous Grodd episodes, but after this two-parter, I think they should hold off on bringing him back. At least until they can plot a strong story, and have the effects budget to carry it out. I thought the Grodd parts of these episodes were the weakest, and took time away from other subplots that could have been explored more. Like Harry going back to Earth-2 and Jesse staying, which really should be a bigger deal.

I did like that this was a big relationships episode - yay, belated Valentine’s! Boy do speedsters move fast! Jesse crossing dimensions for Wally is still dumb for various reasons, although I do like them together. Was glad to see Gypsy again! You have game, Cisco, but tone it down - you know she likes you already. Be cool man. Although, I’m with Gypsy, he’s probably not ready for all of that. (That’s not going to stop Cisco, though!)

And of course, Barry and Iris starting and ending the show. They seem committed to having cute domestic scenes -- and decorating that loft set. Barry really seems to like going overboard when it comes to Iris! They really surprised me with the proposal! I didn’t think they would do that this season at all. I don’t know if they’d actually have a wedding before Season 5, though. Or end of Season 4, the earliest.

“You’re both adults” — So confirmation that Jesse is 18 now? I don't think they've ever been clear about her age.

Welcome back Harry! Tom C. seemed to be making his ‘Harry’ voice extra gravelly (to differentiate from HR, I guess), but it was odd to hear because last time, and last season that not how he sounded. His ploy about “dying” was obvious, but it was still funny that he tried it with Wally. I still don’t like HR, but Harry was being really rude to him.

Weird Al being a famous poet on Earth-19 - hee! Also funny: Harry spouting off a bunch of “science” gibberish throughout. 'Cause that's what geniuses on this show do.

Just like the ‘someone has to die’ conversation last week, the whole “I might have to kill Grodd” thing didn’t resonate like the show wanted it to; because a) it kind of comes out of nowhere, b) we know Barry’s not going to do that, c) so the two talks with Iris and Harry just to tell him “no, don’t do that” just seemed like filler. There’s the possibility of them setting up this idea for later in the season, but it was still odd and unnecessary in this episode.

Kudos to the cast and crew for working in the rain! I hope the moisture didn’t ruin any costumes.

Solovar vs. Grodd looked good, but the other battles were underwhelming. I mean, the Flash vs. a keypad wasn’t that exciting, and the speedsters vs. the gorillas was short, and mostly CGI and they didn’t win.

Even if it’s offscreen, they need to have Cisco learn that speedster-stopping blast move from Gypsy.

Ack! at Savitar showing up after the cute couple scenes. Curse this show’s need to have cliffhangers!

[ruby24]

I think we're definitely getting a King Shark vs. Grodd episode next season.

[waving feather]

32 minutes ago, Trini said:

Even if it’s offscreen, they need to have Cisco learn that speedster-stopping blast move from Gypsy.

Yep. In fact, he should be learning and training all his powers to use them most effectively, especially during battle. He's not trained to fight so far but I would want to learn that if I were him. Even Barry can improve on his battle skills. He still needs commentary on his comm to tell him what to do. And it's a straight up brawl with the gorillas. He's not fighting a meta who has unique supernatural ability where scientific knowledge is crucial to win.

Still BS that the gorillas who move so slowly compared to the Speedsters can see them coming and fight back.

Edited March 2, 2017 by waving feather

[Ottis]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Anyone can feel however they want about it, but using "sister" to describe the relationship of Iris to Barry is just incorrect and inaccurate.

I can see either side, because Barry was what, 11 when he moved in? if he were younger, say 6 or so, then there would definitely be an issue, IMO. The key would be how it was framed in the West household? Has the show had Barry and Wally refer to each other as brothers? Joe has talked about raising Barry as one of his own. The implication that Barry's addition to the family was through the family lens of "brother" is there. I don't recall references like "a family friend lived with us."  On the other hand, Joe has seemed good with Barry dating Iris all along. So he doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Maybe Joe is into that.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Ottis said:

I can see either side, because Barry was what, 11 when he moved in? if he were younger, say 6 or so, then there would definitely be an issue, IMO. The key would be how it was framed in the West household? Has the show had Barry and Wally refer to each other as brothers? Joe has talked about raising Barry as one of his own. The implication that Barry's addition to the family was through the family lens of "brother" is there. I don't recall references like "a family friend lived with us."  On the other hand, Joe has seemed good with Barry dating Iris all along. So he doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Maybe Joe is into that.

No, Barry has never referred to Wally as his brother.  And Joe has known that Barry has been in love with Iris for most of his (Barry's) life.  I can't recall which episode it was- Joe said it, and Barry said "Is it that obvious?" I know it was in the first season though.

[Trini]

33 minutes ago, Ottis said:

I can see either side, because Barry was what, 11 when he moved in? if he were younger, say 6 or so, then there would definitely be an issue, IMO. The key would be how it was framed in the West household? Has the show had Barry and Wally refer to each other as brothers? Joe has talked about raising Barry as one of his own. The implication that Barry's addition to the family was through the family lens of "brother" is there. I don't recall references like "a family friend lived with us."  On the other hand, Joe has seemed good with Barry dating Iris all along. So he doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Maybe Joe is into that.

There is definitely a paternal relationship between Joe and Barry; that does not automatically make Barry Iris' brother.
Joe stated in the pilot that Barry and Iris were "best friends" before they ever lived under one roof, and none of the characters have ever expressed that there is a sibling relationship between the two.

I agree that having them live together in one household as children probably wasn't a great idea, but the show has been clear that they are not siblings.

[CletusMusashi]

So what was Grodd's original plan, exactly? Nuke Central City, while you and your entire army stand a quarter of a mile outside town and stare at the blast? Radiation poisoning aside, wouldn't you at least want to put on some sunglasses?

[Grace19]

So, I see the continued tradition that anytime Barry and Iris have a big romantic moment, the 'sibling' argument rears its head. This is season 3 and this is still going on, when is it going to stop? season 10, when Bart Allen arrives? or maybe when one of them dies. OK.

I think that Barry's story about his great grand parents might be a foreshadowing, Barry may get lost in the speed force and have to fight his way back to Iris.

I also hope that Savitar is not someone we know, for once let the villain be a stranger to Barry.

[Daltrey]

On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎28 at 9:10 PM, VCRTracking said:

Candice Patton rocks the HELL out of a pencil skirt. Damn.

I don't know what that is but I whole-heartedly agree.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Grace19 said:

I also hope that Savitar is not someone we know, for once let the villain be a stranger to Barry.

He/she/it is.  Savitar was the very first speedster, apparently from a time long before any other speedsters were even born.

[Argenta]

On 01/03/2017 at 0:59 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I initially disliked HR because he seemed a poor substitute for Harrison, but I really enjoyed him this week. First of all, I love how enthusiastic he was about Friends Day. Despite all the joking, I thought it was very sweet of him to hand make all of those cards and decorate the lab. And he was useful this week with the haircut idea! Plus, as Jessie pointed out, HR is kind and thoughtful. I mean, yes, he's also kind of a dumbass most of the time, but he reminds me of a big happy puppy who just wants to lick everyone's faces.

Yes. I've often thought of HR as basically a friendly Labrador in human form. People should be nicer to him, even if he can get a little OTT sometimes. Although I love all the Wellses, Harry's gratuitous unkindness to HR this week made me quite dislike him (Harry, I mean). 

I agree with everyone who said Barry should just have killed Grodd already (or at the very least, allowed Solovar to do so.) Involvement in the death of a rampaging animal who was doing his level best to nuke an entire city full of innocents would not make Barry a murderer or a bad guy; it would be defense and entirely justifiable. Plus, I'm not sure handing Grodd over to ARGUS is any more humane/merciful than just finishing him, since he's now doomed to life in a solitary cage again - until he inevitably escapes to wreak more havoc of course.

I love that Savitar showed up just in time for Valentine's Day. Naturally everyone assumes he's up to no good, but how do they know he wasn't bringing a bunch of roses and some nice chocolates for the STAR Labs team? People are so cynical these days :p

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Argenta

[Trini]

4 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

He/she/it is.  Savitar was the very first speedster, apparently from a time long before any other speedsters were even born.

Oh, you know they can retcon that if they wanted to. But yeah, I really need Savitar to be unrelated to Barry.

[PatternRec]

As a casual viewer I'm a little confused - are all the gorillas in Gorilla City telepathic or are they just intelligent? And even if it's just Grodd that's telepathic how can they ever fight him without any protection from mind control? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, PatternRec said:

As a casual viewer I'm a little confused - are all the gorillas in Gorilla City telepathic or are they just intelligent? And even if it's just Grodd that's telepathic how can they ever fight him without any protection from mind control? 

Well, based on the Justice League (toon) that I watched, only Grodd had the telepathic abilities--everyone else had to wear these head bands to block him from controlling them, even Solovar. But they were all intelligent and could talk.  But on this show, apparently, both Grodd and Solovar have telepathic abilities. Don't know about the other gorillas.

[KirkB]

They DID have mind control protection during their...I want to say second, encounter with Grodd, but it didn't work right and I guess they decided not to revisit it. While we're on the subject of a potential super gorilla invasion, and considering Team Flash has a guy who can bop around to alternate worlds whenever he wants, surely I wasn't the only one who wondered why they didn't give Kara a call? Sure, a mind controlled Supergirl would have been a problem too, but an army of (thankfully ineffective) giant intelligent gorillas is a pretty big threat.

[catrice2]

Iris (Candice) looked really pretty this whole episode.  She is so much better at selling the love story. There were moments when she was gazing up at Barry (such as asking him if he was giving up going to the future or something) where it was totally realistic and it appeared they were the only two in the world. 

I know a lot of people love Grant Gustin, but I actually think he is one of the weak links in the cast .  Others have said he just doesn't do romantic well, but I don't think he does nerdy, geeky or awkward well either.  He is o.k, and he does better in scenes with stronger actors.  He did a good job at the end, but there is something about his intonation that is slightly grating. 

[Maverick]

I was more bothered by the fact t hat since they have a guy who can open portals to other worlds that they didn't just have him portal the thing to a barren Earth.  There has to be one.  And if there's not, just send it to Nazi Earth.  You just know there's a Nazi Earth out there somewhere.

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, Maverick said:

I was more bothered by the fact t hat since they have a guy who can open portals to other worlds that they didn't just have him portal the thing to a barren Earth.  There has to be one.  And if there's not, just send it to Nazi Earth.  You just know there's a Nazi Earth out there somewhere.

That would require Cisco to have the ability to find Nazi Earth in less than a second. I don't think his powers are well-developed enough for that.

[Maverick]

 That just shows a lack of preparedness on Team Flash's part.

[KirkB]

The problem is a bit more complex than that. Cisco could probably take a tour of the multiverse, to get an idea of what kind of worlds are out there, and have Nazi Earth and a few others on speed dial. But there is the matter of getting the target through the portal once it's open. He could probably open a portal directly behind or in front of Grodd, for example, but he'd never jump in it on his own. When they sent him to Earth 2 Barry had to force him through and even then he almost held on. Cisco doesn't seem to be able to open them under people, which would make it a lot easier.

Edited March 4, 2017 by KirkB

[Daltrey]

18 hours ago, Maverick said:

You just know there's a Nazi Earth out there somewhere.

There is, it's on Amazon Prime:

https://www.amazon.com/Man-High-Castle-Season/dp/B00RSGIVVO

I can't imagine Grodd on there, lol!

[RobertDeSneero]

On 3/2/2017 at 4:14 AM, zannej said:

The "don't kill" thing is another thing that annoys me in terms of the tv and comic book tropes. Characters who have killed before suddenly won't kill even when it would probably save a lot of lives. And even though he is sentient, Grodd is still ultimately a gorilla-- not a human. Animal control would have put him down already. And it's not like Barry has never killed a villain before. He (albeit not purposely) killed Blackout. He lured a guy in to some sort of radiation chamber and got him killed. He outright killed Sandman by throwing lightning at him and turning him to glass. There may have been some others but that is what I remember right now. So, Barry suddenly being on this "It is murder to kill a gorilla that just tried to nuke my city" is just asinine. And even if I could forget that Barry has killed in the past, it made zero sense for Barry to talk Solovar out of killing Grodd. I realize it was only done to keep Grodd alive for future plots, but it was dumb.

I also think that the no killing thing is slightly insulting to military and law enforcement agents who do have to shoot people to save lives.

Maybe the writers were just voicing their opinions about Harambe.

For a hero like Barry, I think he understands the need to sometimes use deadly force to save lives, but he sees that as a last resort and he will make a superhuman effort to find another way.  That's more laudable than a cop who might be quick on the trigger because that's the easy thing to do.

[zannej]

18 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Maybe the writers were just voicing their opinions about Harambe.

For a hero like Barry, I think he understands the need to sometimes use deadly force to save lives, but he sees that as a last resort and he will make a superhuman effort to find another way.  That's more laudable than a cop who might be quick on the trigger because that's the easy thing to do.

Except when failure to pull the trigger results in multiple deaths. I know we hear about police shooting people all the time, but the majority of cops never have to fire their guns at people during their careers. The ones who shoot out of anger or panic are not being good cops-- but there are times when they have to make the call. Most cops don't actually want to shoot anyone and it is not an easy decision to make when they do. The ones who enjoy shooting people have no business being cops.

And Barry could have refrained from killing Grodd-- that is fine-- but not letting Solovar kill him was idiotic.

I forgot to quote the thing about the anti-mind control things-- they worked fine the previous time Grodd showed up. It was just a flop the first time bc Barry got knocked down and the thing broke.

[KirkB]

4 hours ago, zannej said:

And Barry could have refrained from killing Grodd-- that is fine-- but not letting Solovar kill him was idiotic.

Yeah, especially since the gorillas have their own society and their own rules. It's not really Barry's place to tell the leader of Gorilla City (I'm assuming he gets the job back with Grodd defeated) how to punish a criminal.

[waving feather]

5 hours ago, KirkB said:

Yeah, especially since the gorillas have their own society and their own rules. It's not really Barry's place to tell the leader of Gorilla City (I'm assuming he gets the job back with Grodd defeated) how to punish a criminal.

Grodd also committed treason (he was banking on Flash to kill Solovar) and even in human society, that usually results in the death penalty. 

[KirkB]

At least Solovar gets the last laugh. With Grodd on Earth, when he invariably escapes from Argus custody, he's their problem.

[TV Anonymous]

Am I wrong to think that Jessie was going to ask for sex? And am I even more wrong to wonder how speedsters have sex with each other?

[legaleagle53]

27 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

Am I wrong to think that Jessie was going to ask for sex? And am I even more wrong to wonder how speedsters have sex with each other?

As fast as possible, no doubt.  :-P

Then again, Jessie is the first female speedster that we've met so far (there is at least one other in the comics), so who knows?

[KirkB]

9 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Then again, Jessie is the first female speedster that we've met so far (there is at least one other in the comics), so who knows?

Actually, no, Jessie is the second...  http://www.vulture.com/2016/03/flash-recap-season-2-episode-16.html

But there was an earlier episode where the subject of speed and sex was discussed. Caitlin pointed out that with his hyper metabolism Barry might...umm, well have issues. You'd have to ask Iris if that's actually true. Where two speedsters are concerned, well, maybe they can do it a thousand times a second every second for a few minutes? I don't want to think about it too much though....

[Karlophe]

1 hour ago, KirkB said:

But there was an earlier episode where the subject of speed and sex was discussed. Caitlin pointed out that with his hyper metabolism Barry might...umm, well have issues. You'd have to ask Iris if that's actually true. 

Yes! Right before Barry went on his second date with Linda and we got that hilarious "involuntary vibration" scene. As to the rest, well, there was a clip somewhere of a couple of fans accosting Grant Gustin at the airport and asking him if Flash was fast at everything, and him cheekily replying that he could slow down when he wanted to. I know he was joking, but for the sake of the happiness of our two young speedsters (and Iris), I'll just fanwank it as show canon. ?

Edited March 11, 2017 by Karlophe
Two speedsters! Wouldn't want to be inconsiderate.

[millennium]

The gorillas looked ripped from a video game this week.  And cloned in the group scenes.   

Who knew Central City was surrounded by a pristine wilderness?

I didn't like this episode very much although I enjoyed the Wells interludes.   Wally continues to annoy.  Jesse is not a very compelling character.   Julian's absence made me appreciate what he brings to the show even more.   I feel bad for Caitlin because she only seems to get scenes if a) she's frosting out, or b) Julian is around. 

The ease with which Wells acquiesced to Jesse switching to another earth and shacking up with Wally was highly unlikely.  This show is idealizing romance to an absurd degree, whether it's a parent offering only nominal resistance to a daughter leaving home and moving in with a guy the parent barely knows to Barry decorating the apartment for every "moment" he has with Iris (balloons and flowers for breakfast, etc., then a thousand candles to propose).   Can we get back to being a superhero show, please?

As an aside:

Does anyone else watch on DVR?   Every single commercial break ("Fast Forward has been disabled for this broadcast" -- highly ironic when you're watching a show called "The Flash") the CW runs a promo for all its shows called "Dare to Defy."   It is SO lame.  I feel embarrassed for all the stars of the different shows -- Flash, Arrow, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, Supernatural, etc -- who have to appear in it, especially the Supernatural guys (because somehow they seem above stuff this hokey).  The song itself, "Dare to Defy" is a pernicious earworm, especially when you have to sit through it six times an hour.

Edited March 15, 2017 by millennium