S06.E05: Casus Belli

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, vesperholly said:

She played Heather Dunbar on House of Cards. Another politician who looked savvy but also easily manipulated.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the menacing knitting woman who was watching the tv not the actress playing the President-elect.

[RedFiat]

On 2/20/2017 at 6:44 AM, SimoneS said:

Forgot to mention. I laughed when Quinn shot the guy who threw the rock. The guy's reaction to being shot was hilarious. That should teach a lesson to the people that Dar hires for his games.

I enjoyed Quinn in action. He broke so many laws, but he should be off the hook by next week episode. I wonder how Dar will react to his scheme going awry so quickly thanks to Peter.

Franny was sweet with Hop and scooting on the stairs. I hope that her relationship with Quinn can be repaired.

All of this . The Quinn sequences are really great tv.  Everyone is pulling for him, now that he's showered.   Why was there someone watching the house?  Seems to me Quinn was a Dar recruit, so Dar knows how to ferret out his people. This whole incident is going to be a pain to navigate legally, and Dar knows it. In the meanwhile now that it appears the taint is on the kid taking the fall for the bombing we have that international incident Dar wanted. The reason to go to war, the Casus Belli.  I think Dar planted the plant so he gets to gauge just how much Quinn was able to protect and be a good soldier despite his limitations and then wrap him up tightly in legal proceedings while Dar plays on the dark side.  

[TVbitch]

^Not true! I was pulling for Quinn before he showered. ...and also, in the shower. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the menacing knitting woman who was watching the tv not the actress playing the President-elect.

Deborah Hedall has been in a bunch of stuff!

[Lady Iris]

12 hours ago, TVbitch said:

^Not true! I was pulling for Quinn before he showered. ...and also, in the shower. 

Yeah, true, but showered Quinn is preferable. Now if we could only do something about the downy soft looking stache. Its not doing it for me. <shallow>

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Deborah Hedall has been in a bunch of stuff!

I checked her out on IMDB. It was her role as the sleazy politician Ann Benton on Law & Order that sticks out in my mind.

[Notwisconsin]

Oh joy, a coup! This is the same plot as Quantico, except done by sane writers.

[slowpoked]

I'm kind of confused by the kidnapping assertions mentioned here - are you guys saying the President-elect was kidnapped because the whole bombing incident was just a set-up by Dar Adal, and thus to give him reason to "secure" the president far away?"

Because I thought that was just standard protocol that if there is an imminent threat near the president, that s/he is immediately whisked to safety. I didn't see any shenanigans in there.

But I was watching this on really low volume and bad closed captioning so there may be some stuff that I missed.

On another note though, I'm loving this season of Homeland more than the last one. I liked the characters of Astrid and Miranda Otto but it feels like this season is better written. It has been a slow build so far, but I can't wait to see things unravel from here. 

[Bama]

8 hours ago, slowpoked said:

 

I'm kind of confused by the kidnapping assertions mentioned here - are you guys saying the President-elect was kidnapped because the whole bombing incident was just a set-up by Dar Adal, and thus to give him reason to "secure" the president far away?"

 

The "kidnapping" isn't so much that she was whisked away to an unnamed, secure location but more so that Dar isolated her from her staff, took away her cell phone and replaced with a cell phone that was probably tapped, and isolated her from any information sources (TV and internet).

Add in the fact that the media had leaked footage of her being taken away and leaked info that she wasn't "responding to the crisis" - both pieces of info that probably came from Dar - and you have a completely manufactured situation that made the PEOTUS look terrible.

[Yakimaman]

On 2/21/2017 at 10:44 AM, SimoneS said:

I would love the President-elect to wack that subtly menacing woman in the head with a lamp and then jump in one of those cars and drive off. 

I have seen that actress in something else where she played a terrible character. I just cannot remember the exact role.

Lesbian manager of the hair salon in last years Fargo.  

[wrlord]

ok, this episode has pretty much finished this series for me. Its agenda is laughable. Cartoonish.  All the muslims are innocent and, when they're not being railroaded by the American legal system, are being framed by white Americans for the commission of actual terrorist acts.  Moronic blowhards dominate the media. Israel is framing innocent Iran.  And the Jews running the CIA have kidnapped the female president elect because they can't get their way.

Frighteningly, this is what the showrunners and much of the rest of the people in tv and the movies think is reality.

I used to stomach Claire Danes' horrible acting because the show had a slight degree of nuance to it.  No longer.  Astonishing that this was once based on an Israeli show.

Edited February 25, 2017 by wrlord

[Addlepated]

56 minutes ago, wrlord said:

ok, this episode has pretty much finished this series for me. Its agenda is laughable. Cartoonish.  All the muslims are innocent and, when they're not being railroaded by the American legal system, are being framed by white Americans for the commission of actual terrorist acts.

Right, like that part in season one where 

Spoiler

Abu Nazir sent converted Muslim Brody to blow up VP Walden and various other honchos with a suicide vest.

Doing the same plot over and over would be boring.  I'm glad they don't.

[wrlord]

Different show in season 1.  Different show runners. 

[Occasional Hope]

Well, this was intense.

[John Potts]

Anyone else think that Carrie's nanny was incredibly dedicated to not quit following that siege? And on the subject of the siege, could we perhaps have one where the SWAT Commander isn't completely gung ho - only to get his ass handed to him by the Badass defenders? Pretty sure SOP is to try talking before ordering the heavies in, especially once Carrie turned up to tell them who the man in question was - I would think you'd want any intel you can before storming a building. And kudos to Carrie for throwing herself on top of Quinn to protect him (though Carrie's never lacked bravery).

I get that the Rush Limbaugh-a-like is presumably a Trump (or whatever alt-Trump ran against PEOTUS in this universe) supporter, but why is carping on about what the President Elect is doing rather than the President? She has no power to do ANYTHING yet. And I realise firebrands aren't exactly known for their balanced view of any issue, but wasn't he encouraging the General to commit Treason (or at least, mutiny) - wouldn't a General IRL be in deep shit for appearing on a show like that?

On ‎20‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 4:22 AM, SimoneS said:

I have the say that the FBI guy was more receptive to Carrie's warning about a third party than I thought. He will be looking to get his own back on Dar also.

That was a surprise to me too. At least he is thinking about what might be going on, for all his dislike of Carrie.
 

On ‎20‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 2:17 PM, jrlr said:

LOVED Quinn shoving that bitch reporter down the stairs and shooting at the rock-thrower - such unfiltered and understandable reactions.

It was a real "Hell, Yeah!" moment, though I was genuinely scared for her while Quinn was dragging her through the house. Not that she (or moreso, the SWAT guy) didn't deserve it.

On ‎20‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 2:34 PM, shelley1234 said:

I can't see him coming out of this without enough charges to spend the rest of his life in jail.

He was legally entitled to be in the house and responded violently when attacked. I expect he'll be fine for shooting the stone thrower (he could & should claim he was under genuine threat and responded with "reasonable" force). He might be on the hook for dragging the journalist through the house, but he could claim provocation. There's also the fact that his gun is unregistered stolen from the drug dealer a couple of episodes back) so he could be in trouble for that.

I should add, I'm not a lawyer, but that's my take on it.

[maddie965]

I love Quinn as much as any poster (more, probably), but he threw that woman down the stairs, risking serious injury. He shot against a crowd. He attacked, disarmed and imprisioned a Swat operative. He would be in so much trouble in real life... Of course, since this is Homeland, I expect him to be back (and hopefully in Carrie's arms) by next episode.

I loved loved loved when Carrie risked her life (again) to save him. I have no doubt she would have taken a bullet for him. As Quinn would happily take a bullet for her. Their friendship/romance is so fucked up, I love it!

I guess Dar's ultimate goal is to make the U.S. go to war - and, in the process, get more power to himself. Now that sounds a little too much like real life to me...

Love the comments about the housekeeper. Now SHE should be the real villain behind all this!

Edited March 2, 2017 by maddie965

[Roseanna]

This episode really showed Americans to be like children who react emotionally without any ability to think. Of course it was a tragedy that two people dies becouse a bomb in Sekou's car, but come on, why did they jump to the conclusions instead of waiting for investigations. I can't understand at all the host of TV-show who went all berserk as if there weren't many accidents that are much more likely to happen to him. And that Carrie's home were persecuted by journalists and a mob. 

What made *me* laugh was when the TV-host said that the President-elect shook hands with those who had blood of Americans in their hands. That's what all leaders had to do if they want to stop the war and make peace. One can't negotiate only with one's friends.          

[Roseanna]

On ‎24‎.‎2‎.‎2017 at 10:04 AM, Bama said:

The "kidnapping" isn't so much that she was whisked away to an unnamed, secure location but more so that Dar isolated her from her staff, took away her cell phone and replaced with a cell phone that was probably tapped, and isolated her from any information sources (TV and internet).

Add in the fact that the media had leaked footage of her being taken away and leaked info that she wasn't "responding to the crisis" - both pieces of info that probably came from Dar - and you have a completely manufactured situation that made the PEOTUS look terrible.

Plus, the President-elect can't meet Carrie. Dar effectively showed seeds of suspicion whether Carrie's ablity to evaluation is sound as she made an error of judgment about Sekou. Even if PEOTUS continued to trust in Carrie and met her, Dar would reveal their meetings to the press.

So, if the title of the episode is an omen, the bomb in Sekou's car gives a casus belli to the Americans ("we aren't secure at home if we don't go the war abroad") and chosing just Sekoy, Carrie is meant to get out of the play.    

[Roseanna]

On ‎20‎.‎2‎.‎2017 at 4:22 PM, Pallas said:

So good was the lemonade Dar was making from the fruit Carrie unwittingly squeezed for him, he either overlooked or accepted the risk that Saul might contact Javadi. Who as a high Iranian official -- no matter how he achieved that post -- probably isn't the first source the CIA would pursue. Not while they were supposed to be in the first stages of fact-finding. Saul risked it only when he came to suspect a Mossad/CIA plot. 

I can't understand it. As CIA has an agent who is the chief of the Iranian intelluigence, why wouldn't they contact him? That is, if they wanted to find facts.

Of course this is a show, but why would CIA want to go to the war on the basis of testimony that would be later proved false? Why would they want to make their own country look untrustworthy for years and a laugingstock to the whole world?

[Roseanna]

On ‎26‎.‎2‎.‎2017 at 1:22 AM, wrlord said:

ok, this episode has pretty much finished this series for me. Its agenda is laughable. Cartoonish.  All the muslims are innocent and, when they're not being railroaded by the American legal system, are being framed by white Americans for the commission of actual terrorist acts.  Moronic blowhards dominate the media. Israel is framing innocent Iran.  And the Jews running the CIA have kidnapped the female president elect because they can't get their way.

Frighteningly, this is what the showrunners and much of the rest of the people in tv and the movies think is reality.

"Reality" in the books, movies and TV-series like Homeland means usually only harmony with most common prejudices of the audience. But in the long run this becomes predictable, so one must renew the concept.

It's the same with Carrie who in the beginning of series suspected Brody without any evidence, now didn't believe Quinn. 

Of course much can still happen. Maybe somebody is using Dar?    

Edited March 13, 2017 by Roseanna

[Roseanna]

Having thought more about the plot, I supect that it can't be so simple that Dar is a villain. Who or what would benefit if the USA ja Israel waged war with Iran?

However, Sekou and two other dead simply isn't enough for a casus belli nor make PEOTUS to lose her creadibilitya as a leader of foreihn affairs. Either the Homeland team have ceased to have imagination - or there is more to come.

[shelley1234]

3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Having thought more about the plot, I supect that it can't be so simple that Dar is a villain. Who or what would benefit if the USA ja Israel waged war with Iran?

However, Sekou and two other dead simply isn't enough for a casus belli nor make PEOTUS to lose her creadibilitya as a leader of foreihn affairs. Either the Homeland team have ceased to have imagination - or there is more to come.

I doubt Dar is the villain alone and that he isn't working with someone else's interests at heart as well.   

However, having lived through 9/11 and the war in Iraq afterwards all placed on the fears of the American people and weapons of mass destruction that were later shown to not be in existence, I don't think the idea of going to war for false pretenses is something that is all that unrealistic.  

[Roseanna]

45 minutes ago, shelley1234 said:

However, having lived through 9/11 and the war in Iraq afterwards all placed on the fears of the American people and weapons of mass destruction that were later shown to not be in existence, I don't think the idea of going to war for false pretenses is something that is all that unrealistic.  

I don't think it unrealistic per se, it has happened also before. But usually people learn from past mistakes. In this case, if Dar hasn't an ulterior motive, why wouldn't he consult Javada?

[shelley1234]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

I don't think it unrealistic per se, it has happened also before. But usually people learn from past mistakes. In this case, if Dar hasn't an ulterior motive, why wouldn't he consult Javada?

I think that Dar wants us to go to war.  It is in his best interests and allows him and the US govt to continue to push their agenda.  There could be countless reasons for that.  I think that keeping people afraid of the danger out there and it making its way to our soil (manufacturing Sekou and the bomb does that instantly) has been a tactic of our government for going on a decade now.  It's easy to control people when they are afraid of the big bad out there instead of the big bad that might be sitting up there governing and leading them.   

The tin foil segment who believes that 9/11 is an inside job....this season might be shining a light on how something like that might just actually be possible.  I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists mind you, but they are out there.  

[Pallas]

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

In this case, if Dar hasn't an ulterior motive, why wouldn't he consult Javada?

But Adal does have an ultimate motive: renewed hostilities with Iran. For the U.S., a permanent state of international conflict enriches the military-industrial complex and now, an intelligence-security complex as well. I'd guess that those interests were represented at Dar's little gathering back in the first episode, the one where he lamented that dear Saul "too soft."

Also, Adal has never seemed to stray too far from misogyny in his evident distaste for Carrie. Distaste as well as dislike. I imagine he fears that a woman as Chief Executive/Commander-in-Chief will reinforce the worst aspects of (supposed) Congressional oversight of intelligence and civilian oversight of the military. 

[Roseanna]

5 minutes ago, Pallas said:

But Adal does have an ultimate motive: renewed hostilities with Iran. For the U.S., a permanent state of international conflict enriches the military-industrial complex and now, an intelligence-security complex as well. I'd guess that those interests were represented at Dar's little gathering back in the first episode, the one where he lamented that dear Saul "too soft."

Also, Adal has never seemed to stray too far from misogyny in his evident distaste for Carrie. Distaste as well as dislike. I imagine he fears that a woman as Chief Executive/Commander-in-Chief will reinforce the worst aspects of (supposed) Congressional oversight of intelligence and civilian oversight of the military. 

All this may be true but it's also too self.evident. This is a show and a plot needs surprises. And the best ones are such that everything is turned upside down, and not only once.  

[Pallas]

True! But the question was, Why wouldn't a neutral Adal consult Javadi?  For a neutral Adal, the answer would be the same as it was for Saul: your ally Israel claims to have evidence that Iran is breaking the treaty; if so, your inside man Javadi either knows and has been lying like a rug, or doesn't know, so is worthless or worst. You'd start your investigation somewhere else. 

Meanwhile, Adal seems to be a lot less than neutral, and his recent past (?) as head of black ops, his loathing of Carrie, his willingness to take out his own agents -- well, Carrie, anyway -- and his belief that Saul is indeed too soft are matters of record. Is there a twist ahead? Very possibly. But nothing he has undertaken or overseen so far is at odds with his character.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

But Adal does have an ultimate motive: renewed hostilities with Iran. For the U.S., a permanent state of international conflict enriches the military-industrial complex and now, an intelligence-security complex as well. I'd guess that those interests were represented at Dar's little gathering back in the first episode, the one where he lamented that dear Saul "too soft."

Also, Adal has never seemed to stray too far from misogyny in his evident distaste for Carrie. Distaste as well as dislike. I imagine he fears that a woman as Chief Executive/Commander-in-Chief will reinforce the worst aspects of (supposed) Congressional oversight of intelligence and civilian oversight of the military. 

This. Also, when that guy who Dar was conspiring with referred to Keane with the "C" word, Dar didn't blink an eye. This is who Dar is.

Edited March 13, 2017 by SimoneS

[Kel Varnsen]

On 2/20/2017 at 0:17 PM, DakotaLavender said:

I must watch with one eye and ear closed. Can somebody please explain how it was made clear that Dar is behind all of this and how he is involved? What did they show him doing or how was it concluded? Thanks. 

Like a few others I am not really convinced that Dar is the one pulling the strings. It just seems too obvious at this point.

On 3/13/2017 at 3:06 PM, shelley1234 said:

The tin foil segment who believes that 9/11 is an inside job....this season might be shining a light on how something like that might just actually be possible.  I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists mind you, but they are out there.  

The conspiracy theorists in the world of Homeland have all kinds of extra fuel for their cause. I mean was Brody ever cleared in the Langly bombing, or is the official story still that he, a US congressman was part of it?

I was actually kind of surprised that Carrie got Quinn's phone at the end of the ep. I thought it would take a few more episodes to drag that reveal out. Although I am really surprised that a super black ops CIA guy has a phone that is not password protected.

[Anela]

On 2/21/2017 at 11:45 AM, Ottis said:

Heh, I heard the same thing. The actor actually starred in his own show a few years ago, which I loved but was cancelled, as an expert in nonverbal cues to solve crimes. I think he is British or Australian. On Homeland, I heard the "English" before I heard the 'Southern."

I still have no idea what Dar thinks he is doing. Kidnapping the president-elect, in such an obvious way that the president-elect can see, cannot possibly be excused later. So is he some kind of sleeper radical?

And speaking of, why did Saul basically come clean and tell Dar the truth about what Saul had just done while in the Middle East? Does Saul have no suspicion at all? Or was it strategic?

I don't know what his own show was, but the English guy was also on "Medium" as the husband and father of Allison and their girls. He used to be in movies, too, like the one with Brad Pitt, where death/the grim reaper, takes over a guy's body and falls in love with Claire Forlani. 

I need to watch this episode again. I'm trying to binge-watch and I hate it (for more than three episodes, and on my phone, for the most part).