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S34: Tai Trang


Jabu
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Hi.  I'm from Kaoh Rong (aka Brains vs. Brawn vs. Beauty 2).  And I'm proud that my biggest accomplishment was blindsiding Scot and Jason last time.  (Honestly, me, too.)

If there's anything he should change this time, it's not being too impressionable and listening to just anyone who can lead him around by the nose.

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6 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

She's still got Tai, unfortunately. Hopefully, his interviews are true, and he doesn't want to be a lapdog forever in search of the next lap. I really don't want a replay of that. 

I will hold out hope for Julia.

I didn't think Tai was a lapdog, he was, for better or worse, relentlessly focussed on number one, to an extent I've rarely seen, really.  Everything he did, every confessional he gave, was "me me me", which is cool (if slightly offputting to me, and makes his "friend to all living things" reputation rather puzzling), that's Survivor.  I thought he was so fixated on saving himself that it hurt his game -- I still think he should have saved Anna with his idol, the way everybody and their dead grandma were using idols on other people last season -- but I'd rather see that than someone like Joe or Sierra, the "team player" types.

Still, disloyal, irrational, and unpredictable don't sound like the sort of ally you'd want in the game; he might suffer the same fate as Sugar, deemed a bad risk by everyone else, unless they are too blinded by Mark the Chicken to see his actual game.

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With the way he dramatically changes his behavior based upon who he is around, his obsession with "energy" (hence, his refusal to think about going against Aubry when presented options by Michelle), I disagree strongly. He cared more about relationships at any given point. First, it was Caleb. Wouldn't listen to anyone else but Caleb. Then, Scot and Kyle. Now, he is willing to behave like they do. Then, he feels guilty, so looks for someone else to follow--Aubry--and doesn't talk about game, but "energy". He always looked for someone to follow, someone to make his decisions. I am not looking for a replay of that, especially since Aubry and Caleb are back. 

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I do see what you're saying.  But, like, when he's hanging out with Caleb, he says, "this could help me in the game".  Rather than spend any kind of time making relationships on the Beauties, even with Caleb really, he was climbing trees to get idols, which he very definitely saw as "something to save Tai" rather than "something to help my alliance"; because he had no alliance, not really.  For me everything he was doing there seemed anxious and artificial, to keep from getting voted out, not because of any real connections.  With Scot and Kyle, again he had a chance to save his alliance, and in this case a guaranteed million-dollar gravy train, but refused to do so so he could keep his own idol.  He made a stand against Aubry to insist they vote out Michele, though it only burned his advantage.

I don't see lapdog, I see someone obsessing over keeping himself safe, someone staring terrified at Jeff's idol snuffer all day long, lest it move towards his torch, and not paying attention to anything else.  Well, he didn't get voted out, but he did make himself an enormous goat, and had no chance of winning the game.

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9 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I do see what you're saying.  But, like, when he's hanging out with Caleb, he says, "this could help me in the game". 

I rarely saw a lot of strategic thought going into Tai's selection of associates.  My own personal impression?  Tai made associations based on friendship first, THEN tried to rationalize them in terms of game strategy.

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I guess I didn't realize how much I disliked the KR cast as a whole, because that's the only reason I can think of for rooting for Tai so hard.  He's gotta be the worst ally someone can have.  I mean, I still love that he screwed Scot and Jason over.  But I felt like his going on and on about Caleb didn't help the cause.  Although maybe he's smarter than I give him credit for and that was his plan all along.  But then there was last week with Cirie, so maybe not.

 Someone mentioned it in the episode thread, but I wonder why Caleb didn't try and convince Tai to vote with him and Hali, and blindside someone on the other side?  If there was a threat of going to rocks this early, they might have been able to persuade Sierra to flip (I don't know about Debbie).  I didn't care if Caleb stuck around, but I would have loved to have seen Brad get blindsided.  Preferably being the one going home. 

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It is odd that Tai was so willing to vote out Caleb and not Brad. Maybe, it wasn't presented to him. It appears you have to ask Tai the question(s) for him to even think about it. I love Tai but he's an awful Survivor player. I was glad when he screwed Scot & Jason because I hated them but he could have stuck it out a little longer with Caleb. I know Brad spoke with Tai but there must have more that wasn't shown. Maybe, Sierra & Hali aren't the not so close cast members as they present themselves to be. I got the impression they had little contact since their finale. They've even said as much tonight. Although, Max said on twitter it's all an act. Anyway, I think Tai made a horrible move him & the tribe. 

Edited by ByaNose
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I just think that Tai knew that Caleb was a marked man no matter what he did.  It sounded to me like he had no choice in the matter.

Nonetheless, yes, he's a terrible player and a terrible ally.  If he lasts even half as long as he did in Kaoh Rong, I'll be very surprised.

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22 hours ago, Vyk said:

I just think that Tai knew that Caleb was a marked man no matter what he did.  It sounded to me like he had no choice in the matter.

Nonetheless, yes, he's a terrible player and a terrible ally.  If he lasts even half as long as he did in Kaoh Rong, I'll be very surprised.

IMHO there was a choice, although not necessarily Tai's.  If the rest of the tribe was worried about a Tai/Caleb pairing, then they had two options to break up the pair - evict Caleb, or evict Tai.  I understood WHY they made the choice they did, to preserve their original-tribe majority.  Competition-wise, though, I believe they chose poorly.

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47 minutes ago, Nashville said:

IMHO there was a choice, although not necessarily Tai's.  If the rest of the tribe was worried about a Tai/Caleb pairing, then they had two options to break up the pair - evict Caleb, or evict Tai.  I understood WHY they made the choice they did, to preserve their original-tribe majority.  Competition-wise, though, I believe they chose poorly.

And, they might realize the potential bad decision at the next immunity challenge. Of course, it depends how physical it is. Normally, I wouldn't be to concerned but Jeff said two tribes might go to Tribal Council. Those odds aren't good for Tai & Brad. LOL!!!

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1 minute ago, KimberStormer said:

If they voted out Tai how could they expect Caleb to be loyal to them later?  

Simple - blow smoke up his ass.  Just tell Caleb he was a SO MUCH MORE valuable player, the tribe valued his potential contribution in competitions EVEN MORE than that of their pre-swap teammate (Tai).  In case you hadn't noticed, Caleb has a very high opinion of himself. :)   I have little doubt Caleb would take such blandishments at face value, as they would be perfectly in line with his own self-estimation.  He might even be inclined to redirect his loyalty to the group who (in his opinion) so accurately appraised his ability to contribute - especially if others haven't.  Just be sure to lay it on STRONG - the thicker the better.

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I agree with that entirely, but I was just trying to guess at Brad & Co's thinking.  They might also be considering that it's been all OldMana people going home and they want to signal to the other tribes they want to stay Nuku Strong.  Like how the underlayer of Bayon stayed pretty solid no matter how many times Probst shuffled the tribes (except for poor Monica). 

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I don't get why Tai is trashed for playing the idol.  It was literally the only thing he could do to counter the majority votes!  Six votes for them against their five?  They'd have lost someone for sure if he'd sat on it.

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1 hour ago, Vyk said:

I don't get why Tai is trashed for playing the idol.  It was literally the only thing he could do to counter the majority votes!  Six votes for them against their five?  They'd have lost someone for sure if he'd sat on it.

Mainly I hate him because it saved Sierra and booted Malcolm.  I think Tai pretty much solidified that he's a good little host that will do what he's told and be someone easily beatable in the final 3 because he can't play his game for himself.  Obviously you have to play for the moment,  it this early in the game, with the potential for another swap coming, or early merge, or something where you may find yourself the new JT and in a tribe with Sandra,Varner, and Michaela, separated from Brad?  Yeah, I'd really be wishing I held onto my idol.

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On 24 March 2017 at 1:30 PM, Vyk said:

I don't get why Tai is trashed for playing the idol.  It was literally the only thing he could do to counter the majority votes!  Six votes for them against their five?  They'd have lost someone for sure if he'd sat on it.

To me, it was a dumb move for him *personally*, which is funny given the above conversation. He was in the majority of his tribe, with an idol, and now he's in the exact same position without one. If he hadn't used it here they would have lost Sierra but even so, he's in the 3-1 majority and even if they lose the (likely) two TCs coming before the next switch-up, he for sure survives the first (Hali) and probably the second (I feel like he and Debbie would vote out Brad), then at the switch/merge he's a free agent with an idol, which is a really good position to be in.

Now, if they lose the next two, he's theoretically safe for the first vote (again, Hali) and maybe for the second - I think less safe, but I'm not sure of his position in that four - but there's a rehidden idol out there he can't control, so he's less safe overall. And when they merge/switch up and he has to hope he's in a majority position wherever he ends up. 

Playing the idol here was treating this like a merge, not a one-off TC with seventeen people in the game, six of whom weren't actually there. It was the best move for his tribe but - in a game with pre-existing relationships and this many tribe switches - not for him personally. Obviously, that's all IMHO. 

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1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

He can't lie very well but I still think he's smart. I think he'll play one idol for himself and another for someone else....I think. LOL!!!

Let us be more circumspect about the difference between being intelligent vs. being smart:

  • Checking the well at your new camp to see if the same HII indicator exists as at your old camp's well = intelligent.
  • Broadsiding the Sandra blindside (which works IN YOUR FAVOR, btw) by joining a conversation between Ozzy and Varner - Sandra's ONLY ALLY IN THE GAME - and saying, "So we're voting out Sandra tonight, right?  Just like we talked about earlier?" = the opposite of smart.
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(edited)
11 hours ago, Nashville said:

Checking the well at your new camp to see if the same HII indicator exists as at your old camp's well = intelligent.

Everyone is saying this and I don't really get it. That just seems like common sense to me and not some indicator of grand intelligence. Like I would assume even Ozzy would think to do that! OK, maybe not Ozzy, but everyone else.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Everyone is saying this and I don't really get it. That just seems like common sense to me and not some indicator of grand intelligence. Like I would assume even Ozzy would think to do that! OK, maybe not Ozzy, but everyone else.

I didn't say it was Einstein-level thinking - but let's be fair, common sense is pretty damn uncommon these days.  :)

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(edited)
48 minutes ago, Nashville said:

but let's be fair, common sense is pretty damn uncommon these days.  :)

Yea, I feel like maybe people are just so used to players doing dumb shit that a little bit of common sense makes someone out to be a genius!

Edited by peachmangosteen
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(edited)

I'm not going to hate on him for finding two hidden Immunity Idols.  It really seems like no one else was trying to even find one, so if that was the case, then that's on them that Tai ended up beating them out for finding them.

He's still a hot mess, though, strategically, and he's going to kill his own game with the way he flip-flops and self-destructs.  That last Tribal Council display was simply dire.

Edited by Vyk
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I wonder how much of that is editing, because I have a hard time believing only one person is looking for the idol, while everyone else just stands around.  I can see why they'd take that direction, however, because they want to focus on whoever finds them, and maybe make the others (namely those that might need it) look like idiots for standing around.

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(edited)

He's what I would call an idol savant.  But that's the best thing I can say about him.  Other than that, he's a total idiot when it comes to playing the game because he can't read a room, doesn't listen to what his own alliance tells him, and doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.  I'm with Jeff Varner, who talked in an unaired interview about how much he'd love to have a gay man's alliance -- but Tai shouldn't be part of it and needs to go next, preferably with both idols in his pocket.

Edited by legaleagle53
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15 hours ago, Vyk said:

I'm not going to hate on him for finding two hidden Immunity Idols.  It really seems like no one else was trying to even find one, so if that was the case, then that's on them that Tai ended up beating them out for finding them.

He's still a hot mess, though, strategically, and he's going to kill his own game with the way he flip-flops and self-destructs.  That last Tribal Council display was simply dire.

More importantly, from the other players' viewpoint, he's likely to kill their game. He plays a strange game: it seems his sole target is self preservation/get to the end, which he might well do, but he has no strategy to win. So he doesn't seem to have learned from his previous season. He's a bit like Russell in this respect, in that he thinks that his getting to the end is an automatic win, and doesn't understand why others (the jury) don't share his opinion.

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On 4/13/2017 at 8:47 AM, simplyme said:

I think Tai's biggest problems in-game are a language/accent/cultural barrier and his paranoia. The paranoia and unpredictability actually make sense to me since he talked briefly in the past about being a Vietnamese boat person and the horrible things he went through.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people

I disagree about the language/cultural barrier.  He can't use that "English is not my first language" excuse for failing to read the room and not knowing when to keep his mouth shut, especially when his own alliance has made it very clear that he needs to keep it zipped regarding strategies that have been painstakingly spelled out for him.  Even paranoids know when to shut it around their perceived enemies.

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19 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I disagree about the language/cultural barrier.  He can't use that "English is not my first language" excuse for failing to read the room and not knowing when to keep his mouth shut, especially when his own alliance has made it very clear that he needs to keep it zipped regarding strategies that have been painstakingly spelled out for him.  Even paranoids know when to shut it around their perceived enemies.

This last time when Tai "accidentally" spilled the beans about the Sandra vote to Varner, I'm not sure that was accidental or all that bad of a move for Tai. His alliance had already been considering turning on him (which I do at least partially ascribe to his paranoia and having more difficulty understanding him when he speaks). By saying Sandra's name in front of Varner, if she WAS the agreed-upon vote, he wasn't saying anything Varner wasn't supposed to know. If she wasn't the agreed-upon vote, Tai's alliance was lying to him (which he kind of sensed) and he had two idols as back up. It was bad for Tai's alliance partners that he did that, but I'm not convinced that it was actually bad for Tai.

Sandra, at least, seems to think that she had convinced Ozzy to be her new Malcolm and vote with her and Varner, but Tai running at the mouth and clutching his idol at TC spooked Ozzy into a safer vote for Sandra.

I honestly can't tell how much of what Tai does is luck and how much is being able to sense when he's vulnerable and trying a way to flip things. I mean, he isn't going to win, and I don't think he's a genius, but I don't think he's an idiot either. 

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2 hours ago, simplyme said:

This last time when Tai "accidentally" spilled the beans about the Sandra vote to Varner, I'm not sure that was accidental or all that bad of a move for Tai. His alliance had already been considering turning on him (which I do at least partially ascribe to his paranoia and having more difficulty understanding him when he speaks). By saying Sandra's name in front of Varner, if she WAS the agreed-upon vote, he wasn't saying anything Varner wasn't supposed to know.

IF you don't count the fact that Varner and Sandra were themselves allied as the only two left from their orignal tribe and Varner knew that once Sandra was gone, he'd be next.  That's why Tai's alliance got so pissed at him for blabbing about the Sandra vote right in front of Varner after they'd made it clear that Sandra really WAS the target.  Who tips off their intended target's ally in the game that HIS only remaining ally IS the target of the vote?

Edited by legaleagle53
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14 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

Some of the comments about Tai in his original season and this one have been beyond the pale and flat-out racist and throwing around racist slurs.

This has been brought up on a couple different threads and I was wondering what words are being used to describe Tai that are racist? I am not as aware about the coded language with regards to Asian people.

I have seen the sneaky claim used on him quite a bit and while I can sorta get what people are saying, I don't really see how Tai's sneaky. He's actually almost the opposite of sneaky! But I'm not one to think looking for idols is really sneaky per se.

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4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This has been brought up on a couple different threads and I was wondering what words are being used to describe Tai that are racist? I am not as aware about the coded language with regards to Asian people.

I have seen the sneaky claim used on him quite a bit and while I can sorta get what people are saying, I don't really see how Tai's sneaky. He's actually almost the opposite of sneaky! But I'm not one to think looking for idols is really sneaky per se.

This to the nines.  My impression of Tai is that he desperately wants to be seen as sneaky, sly, cunning - a master of manipulation, even - but he really just doesn't have it in him.  Tai stammers when he lies, and his poker face wouldn't carry him through a game of tic-tac-toe.  Which is to Tai's credit in life - but not so much in Survivor.  :)

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4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This has been brought up on a couple different threads and I was wondering what words are being used to describe Tai that are racist? I am not as aware about the coded language with regards to Asian people.

Somewhere, @GenL just shivered, but she doesn't know why. The problem is that no one can reply to this without citing specific things people have said, which would only open up a big can of, "how DAAAARE you?" in response, and honestly, my ignored poster list can only take so many more additions. But I'd be happy to talk to you about it via PM if you want.

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Quote

I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to coded language regarding Asians and I don't want to accidentally offend anyone.

I will, but I'll say here that you shouldn't worry about it. Coded language all by itself generally isn't going to get a negative reaction, at least not from me. I can usually tell when someone is just innocently stepping in it as opposed to when there's something uglier behind it.

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7 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This has been brought up on a couple different threads and I was wondering what words are being used to describe Tai that are racist? I am not as aware about the coded language with regards to Asian people.

One positive thing is that I try (I try) to report posts instead of responding, and they usually get deleted.  That's a good thing.

One negative thing is that a lot of the language against Tai for being Asian is not even coded.  There are straight up racial slurs used.  Either you didn't see them before they were deleted, or you didn't recognize them.

I think that a lot of people hate Tai - a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot.  Some of the hate could be totally understandable.  And some of the hate just sounds really gross.  Like people hate the Asian contestant on Survivor and are just grasping at ridiculous straws as to why.  I think I feel like @fishcakes.  I can just feel it.  

Also posters bringing up Tai's  supposed "flaws" out of nowhere which I have never seen depicted on camera and they weren't even the topic of the episode.  This also happens with Michaela a lot.  "Hey, she's blunt, she's difficult, she's blah blah blah."  Um. Really?  Because this isn't even being shown, so........

It's great to own up to ignorance on a topic.  It's awesome.  I'm ignorant when it comes to transgender issues.  I am trying to learn more every day.  And it's okay to admit we have biases.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Some of those comments about Michaela came from contestants themselves.  I don't know what constitutes "difficult" to them, as that can mean something as stupid as she wouldn't be in their alliance.  But I can see the blunt, sassy, outspokenness that I've seen her detractors (including castaways) talk about.  And yet, that's what I love about her!  I've been disappointed this season so far that Michaela was holding back, and seeming somewhat shell shocked.  I think she knew blowing up at the first vote at Mana over her name being tossed out as a decoy put her on the outs.  I missed the Michaela from last season, and I see she's still there.  Hopefully she breaks out.  I forget how young she is, but I loved the bonding of her and Sandra, and her and Cirie this season.  Having them around seemed to boost her confidence a bit.

As for Tai, I liked him last season, but he can't be gone fast enough this season for me.  I guess my reason is that he's just terrible at this game.  The only good thing I can say he did was have the smarts not to share his idol was Scot last season, which also directly sent Jason home.  He'd be my hero again if he did that to his current alliance and flipped.  I know some people have brought up the language barrier, and I wonder if that's why he plays the game the way he does.  I feel like he needs to be in the security of the alliance, but more so being told what to do and how to do it.  Of course, he's far from the only one that's been in alliances and just done what the crowd did without thinking ahead of their placement or whether they could win.  I sometimes wonder the percentage of contestants who really want to win vs those that just want to get as far as possible.

I did like his scene with Sarah this week talking about Varner, and saying he forgave Jeff despite what he did (but telling Sarah he respected her for not wanting to forgive him).  I believe he does have a very compassionate soul.

Edited by LadyChatts
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Ozzy spoke about Tai in his Ponderosa, saying that Tai and he shared a bond over something.  What did he say?  I didn't really grasp it.  That he and Tai love the earth together or something?  (It sounds funny I know.)

Tai is not assertive.  He lets other people do that.  I think he acts when he thinks a situation is extreme or he's backed into a corner.  He was perfectly assertive when Varner did what he did.  He spoke up, said what needed to be said, and then went a bit overboard showing Varner compassion that I for sure would not have.  He likes to follow along somewhat, and I don't think he particularly likes conflict.  He definitely does not want to start or drive conflict.  He's good with aggressively looking for and finding idols, because that's all done 'behind closed doors' and no one can see him doing it or comment on it and therefore be offended by it.

I don't know, I learn a bit more about Tai each episode I watch.  I don't truly understand him. "He's just bad at this game" is such a blanket statement to me.  Everyone is bad at this game except the winner. Tai doesn't seem to be good at this game in the way the majority of this board seems to like.  Here people seem to hate the idol collectors and find it crazy suspicious.  I always hear, when someone finds an idol: "Oh that's so annoying!"  "That's not fair!"  "Why did HE get it?!" 

Spencer is another player who is bad at tribal council, but he seems to be insanely popular.  Ozzy is another player who's never won after four times, but he's insanely popular.  So I don't get why people say "Get Tai off the show" for this reason.  You need the different types of players to make the show as beautiful and great as it is.  What is the point of having 18 of the same player.  I just don't get the desire for that.

Cirie has her flaws.  Sandra even has her flaws.  Tony, my beloved Tony, was such a flawed player the second time he got immediately booted.  But so what?  Why is this so horrible to watch?  Not to me, it isn't.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Sometimes it can be very frustrating for me to watch Tai play because I have such a hard time understanding why he does, well, pretty much everything he does! But then other times I enjoy the heck out of him, like when he fucked Scot over or when he was showing compassion towards Varner. And hell sometimes I even enjoy his baffling ways. Especially when they screw over people I hate!

I think Tai's a great guy that I'd love to spend time with and talk to, but I would never want to play Survivor with him.

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Actually, I think winners can be bad at this game, and win either out of spite or popularity (and I don't equate being popular with being a good gamer).  It gets old seeing the same people find idols, especially multiple idols, and makes it boring, but I blame the show for that more than I do the idol finder.  It's why I wish they'd make new rules about idols, as has been discussed.  I also can't help but wonder if producer influence is at play with helping certain contestants find idols because it'll make for a better story vs if someone else found it.  Idols have become such a big part of this game and Probst loves the drama they create at TC, but it's really ruined the strategic element.

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As a player, Tai has his good points and bad. He's an active player and tries to control his own destiny, which is good, but he also has no poker face and almost no ability to not just spill everything he knows as soon as someone asks him a question, which in this game equals doom. Yet even so, he got to the end last time, and I wouldn't be completely surprised if he does this time, though I think it's a longshot. I don't know; he's hard for me to evaluate. I like him, but if I were playing Survivor with him I wouldn't tell him anything because he'd blurt it out as soon as Jeff said, "so, Tai ..." To his credit, though, he knows it. It was sort of touching when he gave that confessional where he sadly said, "I'm really bad at Tribal Council."

13 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's great to own up to ignorance on a topic.  It's awesome.  I'm ignorant when it comes to transgender issues.  I am trying to learn more every day.  And it's okay to admit we have biases.

I agree. And a lot of what I've learned about transgender issues has been on these boards when transgender posters answered questions or pointed out when other posters were going off the beam about certain things. Ignorance isn't a problem; being determined to stay ignorant is.

Edited by fishcakes
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3 hours ago, fishcakes said:

To his credit, though, he knows it. It was sort of touching when he gave that confessional where he sadly said, "I'm really bad at Tribal Council."

Very funny and true!  I missed this.  I adore his love for animals.  He doesn't grasp the concept of trust/loyalty and when to shift allegiance.  He makes erratic decisions or it could be said he leaps to grab the shiny object.  That can make your tribe mates twitchy.  Last season this behavior was glorious though when he turned on Scott.  

Edited by wings707
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20 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 I don't truly understand him.

Tai is a Buddhist and a lot of his actions come from closely following Buddhist teachings.  He is always

an inspiration to me, because while I'm not the worst Buddhist in the world, I'm probably in the running.

So he's a gay immigrant of a different race and religion than the majority of Americans.  He's a bigot's

dream casting. 

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