S02.E13: Theseus' Ship

[WendyCR72]

Dr. Rhodes convinces Dr. Latham to join him for a medical trip out of town, which puts Latham's personality issues to the test. Dr. Manning treats an 8 year-old cancer patient who wants to give up on his battle until she makes a surprise discovery. Elsewhere, an unhealthy woman with heart problems is brought in and doesn't want to listen to doctors, much to the dismay of Dr. Halstead. Meanwhile, Dr. Choi, Dr. Charles and Dr. Reese work on a complicated case involving a woman with a personality disorder. Will and Nina work through their first relationship test.

[statsgirl]

According to Wikipedia

Quote

The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus,[13] for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place...[14]

I have no idea how that applies to the episode.

I really enjoyed the Rhodes/Latham friendship, Halstead's reaction as Nina told him all they guys in the hospital that she's dated, and the developing relationship between Dr. Charles and his daughter.

I understand what they are doing with Reese but I don't like her as much this season.  Yes, the woman's condition was not in the DSM-V (and it's not a personality disorder) but does Reese think that these conditions did not exist before they were labelled by psychiatrists?

[Ariah]

"Theseus ship" refers to a paradox: does an object who had all its components changed still the same object it was in the beginning, or is it a completely new thing?

It's usually connected with identity problems - if you change, due to a medical procedure or accident, are you the same person you used to be? Are you aware of the change?

This can refer to the Cat Lady/Architect case, but also to doctor Latham, who's been trying to change his personality.

[Sandman]

I suppose it could apply, to a lesser extent, to Grace's identity story as well: did her creation of Becca, supplementing some parts of her interactions with the world, make her a different person than the woman Mark fell in love with?

I think "Have you been binge-ing on Doctor Quinn, Medicine Woman again?" might be the most I've ever laughed at this show.

And Doctor Latham's Big Day Out was less cringe-making than I thought it would end up being.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Sandman
"That" is not "than."

[Fireball]

Wow! Owen was mentioned! I thought the writers had forgotten that he existed. But why was Natalie bringing home her stethoscope; don't they usually lock them up in their lockers at the hospital?

 

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I understand what they are doing with Reese but I don't like her as much this season.  Yes, the woman's condition was not in the DSM-V (and it's not a personality disorder) but does Reese think that these conditions did not exist before they were labelled by psychiatrists?

I don't like what they are doing with her either. I really liked Reese last season, but this season she's just extremely annoying. Also very shallow note here, but I think her hair looks horrible styled up in that cone/ birds nest thing. However, one good thing about that style is at least there isn't any danger of her hair getting into wounds.

[Netfoot]

So, it's OK for the woman to leave her husband because her invisible friend told her to.  And she isn't loony-tunes.  Got it.  

[Sandman]

Well, I don't think Dr. Charles ever disagreed with Reese's conclusion that Grace is deeply disturbed -- only with the utility of labeling her, and with the idea that there's well-marked line between Batshit and Basically Okay. If Grace is more or less functional, is it better for her to be medicated or institutionalized? And I'm pretty sure Mark left her, not the other way around. (It seems to me, except for the traffic accident-slash-maybe suicide attempt, Grace is probably less of a danger to herself -- and maybe others -- than Architect Cat Lady (whose name, I'm sorry to say, I can't remember)).

[starri]

Sorry, when you're given a choice between your tulpa and your incredibly hot husband, you go with the incredibly hot husband.

[spunky]

I'm shocked that I'm typing this, but Natalie did not annoy me this episode. Who I found annoying was April attempting to be Natalie 2.0 by calling DCFS without waiting for the test results like Natalie wanted to. Poor Will is dating someone who apparently dated at least 4 other coworkers. I do like this new version of Will, so writers please move past him and Natalie getting together. Writers can you all give Maggie more to do than hold that damn pager, and be Will's voice of reason. 

[Fireball]

52 minutes ago, spunky said:

I'm shocked that I'm typing this, but Natalie did not annoy me this episode. Who I found annoying was April attempting to be Natalie 2.0 by calling DCFS without waiting for the test results like Natalie wanted to.

Natalie didn't annoy me as much, but the story line did. I feel like we've done versions of this before. Patient comes in, Natalie is judgmental and calls in the authorities, only to realize she was wrong the whole time. Now this time around Natalie only called in the authorities because April basically forced her to, but still the story line felt (at least to me) "been there done that".

[LittleIggy]

The little boy playing the cancer patient was really great.

[Tiger]

Manning's kid, Nina, and Halstead's feelings for Manning all showing up again after months of being MIA was ridiculous.  

I did like how Nina mentioned having dated "Dr. Rose" as her real life husband plays Dr. Rhodes.

The guest acting on this show is generally suspect, but cancer kid and his dad were excellent.  

Poor Marylyne Barrett . . . I guess Maggie already had her one and only feature ep this season.  

[starri]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I did like how Nina mentioned having dated "Dr. Rose" as her real life husband plays Dr. Rhodes.

Speaking of, holy shit did Colin Donnell look hot in his civvies when he and Latham were out at the bar.

[Tiger]

Also, who the hell is this 'Adam' that Manning told Cancer kid Dad will "fix this"?

[starri]

5 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Also, who the hell is this 'Adam' that Manning told Cancer kid Dad will "fix this"?

If you're talking about what she said about getting the charges against the dad dropped, she said something about how the kid would be looked after by his aunt.

[spunky]

8 hours ago, Fireball said:

Natalie didn't annoy me as much, but the story line did. I feel like we've done versions of this before. Patient comes in, Natalie is judgmental and calls in the authorities, only to realize she was wrong the whole time. Now this time around Natalie only called in the authorities because April basically forced her to, but still the story line felt (at least to me) "been there done that".

I did feel like a rinse, repeat storyline. The show is too new new for that. April annoyed me most when she decided to use her pregnancy as the excuse for her behavior. 

[statsgirl]

April is annoying me generally over how she still does what she wants to do (working long hours, not eating well) and uses her role as mother to justify still making decisions that are about what she wants rather than what's best for her kid.  You decided you're going to grow this kid -- it's your responsibility to give it the best environment you can.

23 hours ago, Netfoot said:

So, it's OK for the woman to leave her husband because her invisible friend told her to.  And she isn't loony-tunes.  Got it.  

What is loony-tunes?  Someone who has an anxiety disorder? Or someone who is so narcissistic that they think they can break all the rules with impunity and then cry if they find they can't?

Just throwing out the idea, possibly Grace couldn't be assertive or independent when she was growing up (maybe she had a very dominating parent, maybe she was just too anxious) so she created Becca who was the part of Grace that she felt she could not be in the real world.  Yes, the husband was hot but he may not have been the right person for Grace-as-she-should-be.  It's like those (real) cases where a man marries a shy, insecure woman.  At one point she loses weight and becomes much more attractive, or becomes more assertive and gets a management job or social position and the marriage breaks up because this isn't what he wants.

Sure, inventing a tulpa is a crazy way of handling a real situation but people do what they feel they need to do.  Maybe Becca is who Grace wants to be but feels she can't.

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Sure, inventing a tulpa is a crazy way of handling a real situation but people do what they feel they need to do.

Ipso facto, nutso.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Is it too late for me to get a tulpa? 

[WendyCR72]

You get a tulpa, you get a tulpa, EVERYBODY GETS A TULPA!!!

[Texasmom1970]

15 hours ago, Tiger said:

I did like how Nina mentioned having dated "Dr. Rose" as her real life husband plays Dr. Rhodes. 

I did not know that, crap she is one lucky beyotch!

[Lady Calypso]

The whole tulpa situation seems complicated, for sure. I do think that Grace needed to be at least evaluated a bit further since she actually was a danger to herself and others. She crashed her car, for goodness sake. How is that not proof that she might need some help in her life? I was still on Dr. Charles' side in that she didn't need labeling and she might not even need medication since she did seem to be functional. I just felt bad for the husband, to have to deal with Grace's tulpa, who seemed quite hostile toward him in general so who's to say that she won't get in an argument with Grace when another guy comes along? What if Becca tries to hurt the next guy? I think Dr. Charles handled the situation well, but if I was him, I would keep in contact with Grace, to make sure that Becca isn't hurting her or anyone else. 

I was also less annoyed with Manning and more annoyed with April and the storyline in general. Sorry April, but being pregnant doesn't excuse the irrational decisions that you make, especially while on the job. Manning was right in waiting for the test results. It's not like the dad was going to flee. April's been bugging me this season almost as much as Manning. 

I enjoyed Latham and Connor's Night Out of Town story. It felt disjointed from the show, but it was a nice, fun subplot. 

I'm still not here for Manning/Will. Come on, show. You got a treasure in Patti Murin. Plus, as long as you have Colin Donnell, you have Patti Murin, so she never has to leave! It's perfect! Plus, Nina and Will are my favourite couple on this show. Don't break them up just for the awfulness that will be Will and Natalie. 

Dr. Charles is slowly getting better from whatever mess happened to him writing-wise at the beginning of the season. Thank you, show. 

[statsgirl]

I missed the resolution to Becca's story.  Did Charles really send her home with no follow-up?

The tulpa is a part of Becca so whatever it is or it's origin, that means that there is a part of Becca that is suicidal.  She should have been admitted on a 72 hour hold for evaluation. There's something going on in her that needs help, if for no other reason that she's not integrated.

But Reese was wrong that she needed to be labelled and medicated.  Labelling is useful but it's also limited by our understanding of what goes on in the brain and the body.  Becca may be depressed, or traumatized or have a neurobiological condition and to label her too soon is going to hurt her rather than help by limiting her treatment.  For example, in hospitals here, a patient isn't diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder after a first episode. Instead, they get the tag "First Episode Psychosis" and the team works out later which particular diagnosis fits.

[starri]

I'm pretty sure Sarah mentioned that Becca was going on a 9.39 hold (or whatever it's called in Illinois) for five days.  

I don't know if she suggested a particular label for Becca either, she just ran down a differential for him.

[Fireball]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 5:13 AM, Tiger said:

I did like how Nina mentioned having dated "Dr. Rose" as her real life husband plays Dr. Rhodes.

I'm confused.. Who is Dr. Rose? Is Dr. Rose somehow a nickname for Dr. Rhodes?

[Sandman]

We haven't seen or heard of Dr. Rose until Nina ran through her list this episode, but the similarity of the names could be seen as an acknowledgment of the actress's real-life relationship with Colin Donoghue.

I agree that there was a certain repetitive air about this episode; Chicago Med staff seem to want to call in DCFS at the drop of a hat. But it never seems to work out well. Dr. Manning does have a bit of judgmental streak, but I think there's been some growth there. And, quite honestly, I think the character comes in for a lot of criticism because of what the men in her life do around her, rather than for flaws that are attributable to her. Just because Red Halstead and Dr. Fire both acted like idiots because of their "feelings" for her (really their egos, but, whatever, boys) that's not on her. I don't want Halstead with Natalie, either, but not because Natalie is the annoying one in that pairing.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Sandman
Can't leave out "than."

[backformore]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 8:56 AM, Sandman said:

I agree that there was a certain repetitive air about this episode; Chicago Med staff seem to want to call in DCFS at the drop of a hat. But it never seems to work out well.

Yeah, the law is that doctors are required to call DCFS if abuse/neglect is suspected.  The reality is that people new to the field call much more quickly.  Professionals with more experience wait and see, because their experience with DCFS is that the agency is  inconsistent and unpredictable.  

[Sandman]

And professionals in dramas do things to ratchet up the emotional upheaval at the first available opportunity.

[SnarkySheep]

Quote

Halstead's reaction as Nina told him all they guys in the hospital that she's dated

That struck me as a bit odd...would they really not have discussed such a thing up til now, especially if her exes were colleagues/people that Will would know?

It also made me wonder about Original Will versus Current Will. If you recall, when he was first introduced on PD, he was really into one-night stands (actually bringing a random girl home while crashing at his brother's apartment, which IMO is both unspeakably rude and rather dangerous, as it's a total stranger, Jay has his police weapons on hand, etc.) It was also insinuated that one of the reasons for Will's leaving NYC was getting involved with a partner's wife. Yet in these two seasons we haven't really seen any real proof of these behaviors. So I'm left thinking that perhaps it's one of those ret-con sorts of things, where TPTB adjust a character's personality and traits after their initial introduction. But IMO whatever it's supposed to be kind of makes a difference in interpreting Will's reaction to Nina's disclosure; if we're supposed to still go with the whole Mr. One Night Stand thing, then he's hardly in any position to object to her having actual relationships with numerous guys.