Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

[benteen]

Is this a spoiler thread?  Because if it isn't, I would appreciate if "rumors" were put under spoiler tags.

[scarynikki12]

December is so far away! I want to spend my money now! 

Seriously, that looks awesome. 

[Joe]

3 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

Well...I am just assuming thats what it is. Lol. I was just watching The Force Awakens the other day, and Finn does get beat bad. I hope someone gives him some pointers on fighting for this next movie ;)

He's not bad, but normals can't take Force-users on at their own game. I watched the stream, there was a picture of him out and about, still wearing the jacket.

In other stream news, Kelly Marie Tran entered to Across the Stars. Daisy got Rey's Theme, John got the First Order theme. I think Mark got the Force theme, but I'm not sure. It was nothing that made me frown. So a bit of musical speculation. We know that Anakin and Padme only had two children, barring a retcon. By the same token, Shmi only had one. But in a scene cut from AOTC, we see that Padme has two parents and several other relatives. So it's possible Tran's character is a Naberrie, or at least from Naboo.

[Bill1978]

45 minutes ago, Joe said:

So it's possible Tran's character is a Naberrie, or at least from Naboo.

I'd be cool with that, only cause it means the prequels are acknowledged as having existed. I know they aren't well loved, and many people wish they didn't exist, but it would be nice for the new trilogy to acknowledge the story. It's one of the reasons why I loved the appearance of Jimmy Smits in Rogue One, it showed continuity with the prequels.

So I just watched the teaser trailer. I was excited pressing play but by the end I was feeling meh, not sure why, but I did. Maybe I need to re-watch again, but for some reason I was getting a very strong vibe that this is going to be overly serious and even the battle scene didn't' fill me with hope. My eyes glazed over as it just looks like your standard Hollywood battle created in a computer.

[Morrigan2575]

Loved the trailer and that posters is outstanding.

[slf]

Both the trailer and poster are fantastic. Speculation below:

Spoiler

 

So I definitely think the Rey fandom's speculation that Rey is meant to be a greyforce user - neither purely Light or purely Dark which would mean we're going to see Rey use some Darksider techniques (at least) - is probably spot-on. Rey's pose on the poster is identical to the symbol we see (I'm assuming Luke touch) in the book in the trailer. So when Luke says the Jedi have to end I think either they're going to reform the order drastically or just end it altogether and start a more balanced order.

I think they're going to do a redemption arc with Kylo Ren and Rey will factor into that heavily, and those two will take down Snoke in the third film.

 

[MrsR]

Loved it. Luke, Rey, Leia, Kylo, Poe, Finn, BB8, R2, and Obi Wan and Yoda!!! Also Millenium Falcon which I hope is where CHEWIE is. Why no Chewie!!! 

And no C3PO. And no Han. (covers my face while I sob)

 

Can't wait. 

[Joe]

3 hours ago, slf said:

Both the trailer and poster are fantastic. Speculation below:

  Hide contents

 

So I definitely think the Rey fandom's speculation that Rey is meant to be a greyforce user - neither purely Light or purely Dark.

 

I can see that. And JJ said he made some changes to accomodate TLJ. Maybe one of those was dressing Rey in grey, rather than another colour.

[Bill1978]

7 hours ago, MrsR said:

R2, and Obi Wan and Yoda!!!

OK I am definitely going have to re-watch. I assume I need to be listening for Obi Wan and Yoda?

I am a bit concerned that we are going to be getting a major flashback in this film due to that scene in the teaser that is very similar to what we saw in Rey's vision from TFA. Ever since Lost made them a 'cool' way of telling a story does every damn movie need to tell their story that way? I honestly would prefer someone dump the plot with exposition than flashback.

[benteen]

Agh!  You just reminded me that they didn't give Rose's character a last name yet.  I hope we don't get another mystery surrounding her true identity.

On the speculation front...

Spoiler

It is true though that Padme had a sister (Sola Naberrie) with two nieces.  I believe you can see one or both of them at the funeral scene for Padme in ROTS.  This was frustratingly never picked up in the old EU but there was a big SW book called Jedi vs Sith where it's mentioned that one of Padme's nieces became a senator from Naboo and friend and colleague of Leia's, being pleasantly surprised to learn that they were cousins after the war.  I like the idea of someone from Padme's family being around Leia.  Especially with the way Leia's family is turning out.

[DollEyes]

14 hours ago, slf said:

Both the trailer and poster are fantastic. Speculation below:

  Hide contents

 

So I definitely think the Rey fandom's speculation that Rey is meant to be a greyforce user - neither purely Light or purely Dark which would mean we're going to see Rey use some Darksider techniques (at least) - is probably spot-on. Rey's pose on the poster is identical to the symbol we see (I'm assuming Luke touch) in the book in the trailer. So when Luke says the Jedi have to end I think either they're going to reform the order drastically or just end it altogether and start a more balanced order.

I think they're going to do a redemption arc with Kylo Ren and Rey will factor into that heavily, and those two will take down Snoke in the third film.

 

I hope not, re the last point. Kylo Ben killed his own father in cold blood & IMO, there shouldn't be a redemption arc unless it involves Kylo dying the slow & painful death he deserves.

[VCRTracking]

6 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I am a bit concerned that we are going to be getting a major flashback in this film due to that scene in the teaser that is very similar to what we saw in Rey's vision from TFA. Ever since Lost made them a 'cool' way of telling a story does every damn movie need to tell their story that way? I honestly would prefer someone dump the plot with exposition than flashback.

Flashbacks have been a storytelling device since at least sound in movies was invented. It's only new to Star Wars.

[MrsR]

Yes Obi Wan and Yoda are sound bites. There Is also a Leia sound bite. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by MrsR

[slf]

16 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I am a bit concerned that we are going to be getting a major flashback in this film due to that scene in the teaser that is very similar to what we saw in Rey's vision from TFA. Ever since Lost made them a 'cool' way of telling a story does every damn movie need to tell their story that way? I honestly would prefer someone dump the plot with exposition than flashback.

I doubt it will be "major"; based on what we see in the trailer I think it's the destruction of Luke's temple from five or six years before the beginning of TFA that Han told Rey and Finn about. Not a game-changer in any way, just filling in the blanks.

11 hours ago, DollEyes said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I hope not, re the last point. Kylo Ben killed his own father in cold blood & IMO, there shouldn't be a redemption arc unless it involves Kylo dying the slow & painful death he deserves.

Spoiler

If Rey is meant to restore the balance and bridge the divide between Light and Dark then I think that they are definitely gonna go there. He killed his father, one of the most beloved characters in the franchise so I'm surprised. But, it is Star Wars. Vader was redeemed and he slaughtered baby Jedi and entire worlds. The EU is full of the same- Darksiders who became Jedi. The tie-in novelizations for this trilogy have Snoke having manipulated Kylo Ren since he was a child, goading him telepathically, trying to destabilize him emotionally, to make it easier to lure him to the dark side. I suspect that TLJ might go that route.

Edited April 16, 2017 by slf

[blueray]

On 4/14/2017 at 2:18 PM, SimoneS said:

So that was what Finn was lying in. I had forgotten that his injures that serious.

I forgot he as injured at all lol. I'll definitely have to rewatch it before seeing this one.

A short trailer, but that's okay as I'm already planning on seeing it, so they don't need to convince me (or probably anyone).

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, blueray said:

I forgot he as injured at all lol. I'll definitely have to rewatch it before seeing this one.

I'm glad the filmmakers didn't forget. That injury wasn't just something you could walk off after a few days, even in the Star Wars universe!

[blueray]

Oh thanks for posting the scene. Yeah I think he'll need time to recover from that.

[slf]

8 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I'm glad the filmmakers didn't forget. That injury wasn't just something you could walk off after a few days, even in the Star Wars universe!

That punch is....weird.

[Joe]

So I noticed something odd in the IMDB credits for TLJ. Executive producer Tom Karnowski. Who, you might say. My question exactly, closely followed by why? I mean, look at all the movies he's produced. The ones I've seen are bad. Most of the others I know of are bad too. You may argue that he's not responsible for either writing or directing, but he's still closely connected with crap.

He previously produced Rian Johnson's Brothers Bloom, but that seems to be a one-off connection. Of all the producers floating around Hollywood these days, why him? I am genuinely mystified.

[VCRTracking]

This video helps answer to what a producer does and what's the difference between one and an executive producer.

With Rian Johnson as writer and director and Kathleen Kennedy producing it's safe to say they're the driving creative force(no pun intended) of The Last Jedi and that Karnowsi is under them in the hierarchy. His other movies may be crap but if the productions ran smoothly, came under budget and on schedule then he did his job.

4 hours ago, Joe said:

You may argue that he's not responsible for either writing or directing, but he's still closely connected with crap.

Albert S. Ruddy, the same Oscar winning producer of The Godfather also produced Megaforce, The Cannonball Run, Ladybugs and co-created Hogans' Heroes and Walker Texas Ranger! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯!

Edited May 1, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Joe]

That video actually made me more confused than before. But I'll take your word for it. However, if TLJ turns out bad, I'm going to remember this and who to blame. :)

[Morrigan2575]

On 5/1/2017 at 9:30 PM, Joe said:

That video actually made me more confused than before. But I'll take your word for it. However, if TLJ turns out bad, I'm going to remember this and who to blame. :)

Basically Producer can be super important or a title only.  For a recent example Greg Berlanti gave Julie Plec an EP title on The Tomrrow People because they were good friends and both had been huge fans of the show (bonded over it in college).  She had no creative control and in fact joked that she would call up with ideas and they'd yes her to death then promptly ignore everything she said.

Kathleen Kennedy is THE Producer (to use the term from the video). She is the overall person in charge of Budget, creative decisions/hiring, scheduling etc. 

I don't know who this Tom Karnowski is but his role could be as simple as Title only (due to some connection to Rian Johnson) or limited to a very specific scope.  Looking at his IMDb page Tom Karnowski seems to get a Producer/EP and a Unit Production Manager title on most films.  He could simply be a money manager type role

Edited May 3, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[VCRTracking]

Star Wars: The Last Jedi director asked for a droid swap in The Force Awakens

I didn't mind the switch. BB-8 was Poe's droid first and Artoo belonged to Luke so it makes sense the former would stay with his owner while the latter would go with Rey to find his.

[Morrigan2575]

I think that was the right move. BB8 is awesome but, R2 belongs with Luke

[Joe]

So I watched the teaser again and noticed something interesting. When Rey has her vision, we see Leia. Over her left shoulder is Ackbar. The music that plays is a bit of Rey's theme. I'm going to go on record and state that Rey is half Mon Calamari. Ackbar is her father. Or possibly mother. We don't know how Mon Cal reproduction works. She couldn't have been left somewhere temperate, could she? A bit of water around? No, the middle of the desert. That's just cruel.

[Jediknight]

On 5/4/2017 at 7:50 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

I think that was the right move. BB8 is awesome but, R2 belongs with Luke

You damn right, he's a Skywalker, and Luke is the human he's closest to, they belong together.

[okerry]

On 1/24/2017 at 8:34 AM, Jediknight said:

I say the reason Luke is referred to as the last Jedi in the opening crawl is because they don't want to give away that Rey is Luke's daughter and had Jedi training.  Snoke thinks everybody except for Kylo and Luke died in the Temple Purge, he doesn't think Luke's daughter survived.

I'll put this in spoilers just in case I guessed right:

Spoiler

 

I'm convinced that Rey is Kylo Ren's fraternal twin and female clone (yes, it's at least theoretically possible to do that.)

Twins feature big in classic mythology. Luke and Leia were fraternal twins and it would make perfect sense that the next-gen leading characters, Rey and Kylo, would be twins as well.

Kylo could have been cloned at any time and at any age without anybody knowing. All you need are a few cells, easily gained, taken to some facility and grown into a female infant. It could have been done by someone who wanted some Skywalker power for their own uses, and would explain how Han and Leia could have another child they didn't know about.

TFA was practically screaming that Rey had to be related to Han. He liked her, Chewie liked her, and the Falcon liked her. Rey practically handled the Falcon better than Han did himself.

And she and Leia sure looked like mother and daughter there at the end, grieving the loss of their husband and father.

Rey is Luke's niece, not his daughter, but that's close enough for lightsaber work lol.

 

Edited May 14, 2017 by okerry

[Perfect Xero]

5 hours ago, okerry said:

I'll put this in spoilers just in case I guessed right:

  Hide contents

 

I'm convinced that Rey is Kylo Ren's fraternal twin and female clone (yes, it's at least theoretically possible to do that.)

Twins feature big in classic mythology. Luke and Leia were fraternal twins and it would make perfect sense that the next-gen leading characters, Rey and Kylo, would be twins as well.

Kylo could have been cloned at any time and at any age without anybody knowing. All you need are a few cells, easily gained, taken to some facility and grown into a female infant. It could have been done by someone who wanted some Skywalker power for their own uses, and would explain how Han and Leia could have another child they didn't know about.

TFA was practically screaming that Rey had to be related to Han. He liked her, Chewie liked her, and the Falcon liked her. Rey practically handled the Falcon better than Han did himself.

And she and Leia sure looked like mother and daughter there at the end, grieving the loss of their husband and father.

Rey is Luke's niece, not his daughter, but that's close enough for lightsaber work lol.

 

 

 

I don't think that we need to put speculation that isn't based off of spoilers under a spoiler tag.

Anyway, I just don't see this theory being how they're going with it, or the groundwork being laid for it in TFA.

My reasons:

I'm pretty sure that being fraternal twins requires sharing a womb at some point and being the same age. Considering that he's, like, over a decade older than her, they'd be siblings at best and not twins even if they did share the same basic DNA mix.

I don't really get the whole clone thing? It seems like a lot of hoops to jump through to get to them being related. Being a clone would mean that she was an exact copy of his DNA, if that was the case she'd be more like an identical twin rather than a fraternal one. If they used his DNA and a second source of DNA or heavy alteration to make a female clone (which would have to be the case, given that Rey is female and doesn't really look like Ben) that would make her much more similar to a daughter than a sibling. We do have the example in the Star Wars Universe of a clone and the person they were cloned from being much older in Boba and Jango, and their relationship was clearly treated as parent/child and not a sibling one.

IMO TFA was just showing the similarities between Luke and Rey as the mantle of protagonist was passed to the new generation. Han and Chewy quickly taking to Rey mirrors how they took to Luke in ANH (the offer Han makes Rey to join his crew rather than join up with The Resistance is almost the exact same offer he makes to Luke before the Battle of Yavin).

The theory I'm going with is that Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin, probably born of the force in the same way that he was. This doesn't require that she's literally the daughter of Luke or Leia (though she could be). This is why Maz started in about living long enough to see the same eyes in different people when they met. They were laying the groundwork for the concept of reincarnation through the Force in the Star Wars universe. The Force is giving the Chosen One another chance to restore balance.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Perfect Xero

[okerry]

9 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

I'm pretty sure that being fraternal twins requires sharing a womb at some point and being the same age.

***?? Not at all. If someone cloned you today, as an adult, the resulting child would indeed be your twin - just much younger. It has nothing to do with being the same age or sharing the same womb.

I don't really get the whoe clone thing? It seems like a lot of hoops to jump through to get to them being related. Being a clone would mean that she was an exact copy of his DNA, if that was the case she'd be more like an identical twin rather than a fraternal one. If they used his DNA and a second source of DNA or heavy alteration to make a female clone (which would have to be the case, given that Rey is female and doesn't really look like Ben) that would make her much more similar to a daughter than a sibling.

***Cloning is (theoretically) quite simple for any culture that has the technology - and these people do. All they'd need is a few cells from Kylo Ren, like a blood sample, and they're off and running. A female clone of Kylo Ren - which is, again, theoretically possible - would still mean they are full siblings, like any other brother and sister. Rey would not be Kylo's daughter. She would be his full sister. Age has nothing to do with it.

 

9 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

We do have the example in the Star Wars Universe of a clone and the person they were cloned from being much older in Boba and Jango, and their relationship was clearly treated as parent/child and not a sibling one.

***Their personal relationship was treated that way, yes, but technically, Boba Fett and Jango Fett were identical twins.

16 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

The theory I'm going with is that Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin, probably born of the force in the same way that he was

I sure hope not. Pretty much everybody hated that whole idea the first time around, so I'd be really surprised to see the writers try that one again.

[Perfect Xero]

27 minutes ago, okerry said:

***?? Not at all. If someone cloned you today, as an adult, the resulting child would indeed be your twin - just much younger. It has nothing to do with being the same age or sharing the same womb.

 

In a purely genetic sense a clone and identical twin would be very hard if not impossible to distinguish, however, being born at the same birth is also a major aspect of being a "twin". Moreover, fraternal twins (which is what you keep calling Ben and Rey, and is what has me the most confused here) are when two separate eggs are fertilized at around the same time by two separate sperm resulting in a twin pregnancy. Fraternal twins are no more closely related than any set of non-identical siblings, so being fraternal twins does indeed require that they share a womb, otherwise they would simply be siblings.

If Rey is a female clone of Ben other than a Y Chromosome swapped out for an X then shouldn't she, you know, look almost exactly like Ben, but without masculine features?

1 hour ago, okerry said:

I sure hope not. Pretty much everybody hated that whole idea the first time around, so I'd be really surprised to see the writers try that one again.

Isn't your theory basically the same thing, though? Just using science to explain it instead of magic?

Anakin wasn't the result of a normal pregnancy he was the result of Powerful Force Magic.  v Rey wasn't the result of a normal pregnancy, she's the result of Powerful Space Science.

Again, beyond issues of whether it's possible or the terminology this just seems like an awful lot of hoops to jump through for the writers to say that Ben and Rey are twins in spite of him being a good decade+ older than her and Han and Leia making no mention of a daughter.

They basically cut politics talk out of TFA entirely, when the whole New Order, Republic, Resistance dynamic could have really benefited from a little explaining because they knew politics talk didn't go over well in the prequels. Are these same people going to plan a clone and science based explanation to get to "twins" when they know that midichlorians and clone troopers didn't exactly go over huge either?

[okerry]

20 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

Again, beyond issues of whether it's possible or the terminology this just seems like an awful lot of hoops to jump through for the writers to say that Ben and Rey are twins in spite of him being a good decade+ older than her and Han and Leia making no mention of a daughter.

A female clone of Kylo Ren - not Ben - is a science fiction explanation for why Kylo and Rey would be genetic twins even though they were born years apart. Being a deliberately created opposite-sex clone is a far closer relationship than being a mere genetic sibling, twin pregnancy or not.

It would also explain why Han and Leia would not know they had a genetic daughter. A surrogate would have carried and given birth to the cloned Rey. We can do that sort of thing here and now.

[Perfect Xero]

I understand what it's trying to explain, I'm just saying that it seems to me like a convoluted road to get there, especially when clones and unusual sci-fi explanations like midichlorians are the sort of thing that didn't go over well in the prequels .

I'm not sure why the distinction between Ren and Ben is important when they're the same dude, but okay.

Again, and most importantly, if Rey is a clone of the guy then why doesn't she look like him?

[Joe]

32 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

I understand what it's trying to explain, I'm just saying that it seems to me like a convoluted road to get there, especially when clones and unusual sci-fi explanations like midichlorians are the sort of thing that didn't go over well in the prequels .

I'm not sure why the distinction between Ren and Ben is important when they're the same dude, but okay.

Again, and most importantly, if Rey is a clone of the guy then why doesn't she look like him?

I'm not a believer in the clone idea, but Rey does have the Padme/Leia look. The cloning process might not have been perfect, she ends up with a similar but not identical look. Though it's a stretch.

[VCRTracking]

The upcoming Vanity Fair cover story on The Last Jedi with 4 different covers by Annie Leibowitz:

[Morrigan2575]

The last cover makes me cry.

[starri]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The last cover makes me cry.

Me too.

[Lugal]

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The last cover makes me cry.

Yeah.

Not sure how to transition from that, but anyway, I saw the Last Jedi trailer before Guardians of the Galaxy, and I could not help but notice in the narration that Luke Skywalker sounded a lot more like Firelord Ozai.

[Ravenya003]

Someone upthread was concerned about the lack of a last name for Rose. Vanity Fair has revealed it's Rose Tico, so we can lay to rest any fears that there'll be another parental mystery.

That said, I find the name "Rose" a little curious. Presuming that she's named after the flower, it's a very earthly name to give her - are we meant to suppose roses grow in a galaxy far, far away? Perhaps they'll pronounce it differently (Roz or Ro-say maybe). 

[Joe]

54 minutes ago, Ravenya003 said:

Someone upthread was concerned about the lack of a last name for Rose. Vanity Fair has revealed it's Rose Tico, so we can lay to rest any fears that there'll be another parental mystery.

That said, I find the name "Rose" a little curious. Presuming that she's named after the flower, it's a very earthly name to give her - are we meant to suppose roses grow in a galaxy far, far away? Perhaps they'll pronounce it differently (Roz or Ro-say maybe). 

While Leia and Han are pronounced differently to normal, Luke and Ben are as usual.

[Perfect Xero]

4 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

Someone upthread was concerned about the lack of a last name for Rose. Vanity Fair has revealed it's Rose Tico, so we can lay to rest any fears that there'll be another parental mystery.

That said, I find the name "Rose" a little curious. Presuming that she's named after the flower, it's a very earthly name to give her - are we meant to suppose roses grow in a galaxy far, far away? Perhaps they'll pronounce it differently (Roz or Ro-say maybe). 

They have ducks on Naboo, so why not a rose?

[Ravenya003]

3 hours ago, Joe said:

While Leia and Han are pronounced differently to normal, Luke and Ben are as usual.

Sure, but Luke was the original trilogy's "gateway character"; the normal guy that the audience would use as a surrogate in their introduction to a strange new galaxy. It makes sense he would have an ordinary name. And Ben was technically the alias to a much stranger real name. 

 

5 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

They have ducks on Naboo, so why not a rose?

But were they called ducks, or something else, in the same way "children" were inexplicably called "younglings"? 

Okay, I don't really want to get into a huge debate about this; it's just a name after all, but Rose still strikes me as an odd choice. 

[Joe]

I see what you mean. I remember when a Zahn book had Samuel Tomas Gillespee, which sounded surprisingly normal compared to other SW characters. But who knows, maybe she'll have a weird personality. :)

[benteen]

Vanity Fair revealed more details, including Benecio del Toro and Laura Dern's character.  Also, Rose has an older sister named Paige.  So another normal name is Star Wars.

[Joe]

Here's the article. Is it just me, or does Chewie look broader than normal? Maybe Peter Mayhew filled out over the years, sideways instead of front.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Joe

[starri]

Mayhew has retired from playing Chewie due to health problems.  Mayhew has primarily passed the role on to a basketball player named Joonas Suotamo.  The only places he was Chewie in TFA was when Chewie was sitting down.  He won't be in the Han Solo movie at all.

Edited May 24, 2017 by starri

[VCRTracking]

6 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

They have ducks on Naboo, so why not a rose?

I also want to see an actual falcon in Star Wars.

 

14 hours ago, Lugal said:

Not sure how to transition from that, but anyway, I saw the Last Jedi trailer before Guardians of the Galaxy, and I could not help but notice in the narration that Luke Skywalker sounded a lot more like Firelord Ozai.

Firelord Ozai sounded like the Joker from Batman The Animated Series but more serious!

These pics break my heart:

Edited May 24, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Spartan Girl]

I'm not gonna cry, I'm not gonna cry, I'm not gonna cry...oh fuck it.

WAAAAAAAAH!

[Morrigan2575]

OMG that last picture.  Luke and Leia reunited ???

I saw the picture of Carrie Fisher and Billie Lord earlier and it's beautiful but, Luke/Leia reunited is just killing me.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[VCRTracking]

And one final blow, this quote from Kathleen Kennedy about Carrie in the article:

Quote

“The minute she finished, she grabbed me and said, ‘I’d better be at the forefront of IX!’ Because Harrison was front and center on VII, and Mark is front and center on VIII. She thought IX would be her movie. And it would have been.”

Edited May 24, 2017 by VCRTracking

[starri]

Kathleen Kennedy is just going out of her way to make us cry.