S01.E07: The Ballad of Little Santino

[formerlyfreedom]

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Letty and Javier attend the mysterious and explosive reunion of Javier's immediate family. Letty does her best to play the role of Javier's girlfriend while trying to find out as much as she can about Javier's past. But a tragic history unfolds right before her eyes as a newly protective Letty learns Javier's most closely-guarded secret.

 

[TaraS1]

If I was one of those people who said things give me "feels" - that episode description would totally give me the feels.  Letty protective of Javier?  Yes, please!

[thesupremediva1]

JDB just destroyed that episode. Family dinner was never so suspenseful! 

JDB and Michelle knocked it out of the park in the last few minutes. My eyes are still moist.

The show has accomplished a rare feat in that I'm equally interested in all storylines - Letty, Javier, each of their families, and Christian. I love that this show is about deep character exploration and not a caper-of-the-week deal I thought we were getting after episode 2.

Even more surprising, Javier's story is the one I find most compelling. Good Behavior can function with either Javi or Letty in the forefront, and that's the result of great storytelling. 

I'm in the mood for a negroni now.

[gibasi]

Worst family dinner ever!  Poor Javiar.  Ava telling him that he could never see her girls again... My heart was broken for him.

I thought it was his wife that Javiar's father sent out of the room with the children but later figured it must have been his mother?  What a horrible man to hit his grandson like that and to see how everyone was too scared to call him on it!  And David is not a very nice brother.  

[formerlyfreedom]

50 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Even more surprising, Javier's story is the one I find most compelling. Good Behavior can function with either Javi or Letty in the forefront, and that's the result of great storytelling. 

Yeah, this. I find the entire show fascinating, but this episode ripped my heart out. Kudos to JDB. I'll be recuperating for awhile from this.

 

4 minutes ago, gibasi said:

I thought it was his wife that Javiar's father sent out of the room with the children but later figured it must have been his mother?

Or maybe an aunt? She seemed to be the same age as the father and mother.

[magdalene]

I don't think I will be able to re-watch this episode, that was just too painful.  For all this show has been about, and for all the bad and questionable things done by the various characters, it's only now in this episode that I have met true evil in the form of Javier's father.   The hatred of that man is beyond toxic.

I started to bawl when Letty said to Javier at the end "I'll take you". Which in this universe, and considering these characters might as well be a declaration of unconditional love.

[Nanu160]

Cheery. Good fun.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Brutal.

I can see where an Oscar would potentially have the type of contacts who could ferret out Javier's truth.  It still is a heckuva stretch, though.

Dead "Santino?"  Well, at least this time he was the youngest and not the oldest, as in The Godfather.

If Ava returns daddy's cash, I'll respect her decision to shroud Javier.

Letty just walking away without that saleswoman first having counted the pieces that went in, and then those which remained, in an establishment like that, was impossible.

We could have a pretty great discussion as to ranking all the evil players.  Oscar?  Javier?  Brother who seemed willing to kill?  The fool who hired Javier to kill Daphne?  Letty?  Ava's husband?  Others?  Everyone in this ep?????

[rose711]

Just checked in on this thread to see if I should reconsider my decision to not watch the show. Looks like I'm out permanently.  Nothing here makes me want to watch.

[thesupremediva1]

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I don't think I will be able to re-watch this episode, that was just too painful.  For all this show has been about, and for all the bad and questionable things done by the various characters, it's only now in this episode that I have met true evil in the form of Javier's father.  

This character is what makes me able to root for "bad" people like Javier and Letty. They do bad things, but their core is good. I don't care if Javier's father makes his money running soup kitchens and animal shelters, he's rotten from the inside out and enjoys hurting people. I have people like him in my family - unable to apologize, incapable of owning their behavior, narcissistic traits of the highest order, gleeful at dividing the members of the family and creating factions - my heart broke for Javier, contract killer or not.

Letty could steal the Hope Diamond and Javier can kill 100 more people and I'd side with them any day of the week over a bottom-dweller like Javi's father. The way the whole family just sat there and drank up his venom and watched him abuse that child - my stomach turned and I won't rewatch the ep.

That said, it made perfect sense that he'd confess to Eva and that she'd disconnect from him. You can't have a killer around your teenage daughters.

I'm ready for Letty and Javier to hit the road again. We need some levity after this episode.

Edited December 21, 2016 by thesupremediva1

[TaraS1]

10 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

The show has accomplished a rare feat in that I'm equally interested in all storylines - Letty, Javier, each of their families, and Christian. I love that this show is about deep character exploration and not a caper-of-the-week deal I thought we were getting after episode 2.

ITA, I'm interested in all these people.  Obviously I care the most about Letty and Javier, but the writers have quickly built a world in which I'm invested in almost everyone.  I even care about what happens to Tiffany and Kyle, and Rob with his implant lol.

7 hours ago, magdalene said:

I don't think I will be able to re-watch this episode, that was just too painful.  For all this show has been about, and for all the bad and questionable things done by the various characters, it's only now in this episode that I have met true evil in the form of Javier's father.   The hatred of that man is beyond toxic.

I started to bawl when Letty said to Javier at the end "I'll take you". Which in this universe, and considering these characters might as well be a declaration of unconditional love.

When she said that and he turned around and put his head on her shoulder....god, I love them.  

And once again, this show continues to surprise me.  I figured it would be one of those things where Letty finally explodes and lets the evil father have it with both barrels, putting him in his place and passionately defending Javier.  So I was shocked that for the most part, she just sat there in stunned, horrified silence.  But that was a good call, because the old man and at least one of the brothers were clearly violent, volatile and psychotic, and an outburst from her wouldn't have helped the situation.  So, nice work there, show.  Letty showed her support at the end, in the way that mattered most - she stayed and took him with her.

But yeah, other than that last moment between Javier and Letty, I'll have to skip this one when I rewatch (as I often do with this show).  Too stressful.

5 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

If Ava returns daddy's cash, I'll respect her decision to shroud Javier.

Right?  I like Ava, but hypocritical much?  And does that "never see me or the girls again" thing also apply to Silk, since he was helping burn the bodies?  It should.

My only real issue last night was Daphne's husband being able to contact Javier so easily.  Once he does a "job," shouldn't he be able to disappear and erase all traces of himself so these people can't get in touch with him again?  I don't need the constant stress of worrying that someone else is going to pop up and get him arrested for murder.  

[SimoneS]

I watched this because there was nothing else on last night. Also, I figured for a father to disown his son in such a patriarchal society, he must have done something horrible like started contract killing or selling drugs or was caught in bed with another man so the secret would be compelling. Boy did I get that one wrong. However, I stuck with it to see how bad the steaming pile would get.

It was hilarious watching the showrunner had to throw in every single stereotype about Latino families that he could come up. Everyone is so petrified of the father that they sit there take his bullshit. The man meekly complaining about him hitting his son instead of taking his family and leaving or punching in face. I cannot figure out which was my favorite ethnic stereotype; the brother (or whoever he was) whipping out the gun or the father being a war criminal or the nieces sniffing whatever when there was loads of alcohol around that they could have been sneaking. Ridiculous.

Edited December 21, 2016 by SimoneS

[Joimiaroxeu]

It was heartbreaking at the beginning when Letty saw how warm and loving Javier's family is (or seemed to be), unlike her own.

Javier's papa is quite a psychopath though. So he specifically reached out for a meeting with Javier to humiliate him and turn the family against him? In light of the evil life Oscar'd already led, there's going need to be a whole wing of hell reserved for him. (And Javier's instincts to stay away from Oscar were clearly proven correct.)

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I cannot figure out which was my favorite ethnic stereotype; the brother (or whoever he was) whipping out the gun or the father being a war criminal or the nieces sniffing whatever when there was loads of alcohol around that they could have been sneaking. Ridiculous.

I'm not sure I'd call those ethnic stereotypes so much as a particular kind of class stereotype. The dinner scenes weren't much different from ones viewers might see/have seen on Empire, or the Sopranos, or Game of Thrones. These are relatively well-off people used to operating above the law. Their kids have enjoyed the privilege of wealth as well as the cloistered existence required when a family has dangerous secrets or an ill-gained status to protect. I agree though that there was a palpable "machismo" thing going on with the women largely deferring to it.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Joimiaroxeu

[attica]

11 hours ago, gibasi said:

And David is not a very nice brother.

I know! Jesse from Fame! This is not how you live forever, buddy!

I loved the set decoration for the restaurant.  That giant table, which was great to shoot around and highlighted the distances between the characters, the elegant and comfy-looking chairs, the lovely table settings.

I couldn't tell if JDB was doing his own chef-knifery. I suspect there was a knife-double, but it would please me if he did his own. Because he is a Gap Ad come to life.  Ah: a reason to rewatch: research!

I found myself a bit distracted by the varying pronunciation of names. Sometimes he was 'Dahveed', sometimes 'Day-vid'. Sometimes she was 'Ah-vah,' and sometimes 'Ay-vah.' Is that a thing that happens in bilingual families? Or a nod to the presumably English-speaking audience?

I liked Letty's detail that certain wigs go with certain personas, and the blond has a southern accent. That feels super specific and true to me.

In less random terms, I barely drew breath during dinner. Super well constructed episode.

[zxy556575]

6 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

We could have a pretty great discussion as to ranking all the evil players. Oscar? Javier? Brother who seemed willing to kill? The fool who hired Javier to kill Daphne? Letty? Ava's husband? Others? Everyone in this ep?????

Everyone, including the shop clerk, private investigator, and bratty nieces.

1 hour ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I'm ready for Letty and Javier to hit the road again. We need some levity after this episode.

Too bad the previews show them hitting the road back to her damned kid. Her home town is my least, least favorite plot but it's apparently going to loom large.

1 hour ago, TaraS1 said:

My only real issue last night was Daphne's husband being able to contact Javier so easily. Once he does a "job," shouldn't he be able to disappear and erase all traces of himself so these people can't get in touch with him again? 

Honestly. Javier is very bad at his job. He casually gives a "client" his cell number. Doesn't consider that mall parking lots have security cameras. Gets into the husband's car where a recording device could easily have been placed in advance. Pats him down to briefly check for a wire but not a gun. Doesn't notice that someone has been tailing him for days between multiple states. (Although that's hard for me to swallow since there were many country roads being driven with no cars following.) And now he has to trust that family members who wish him ill won't rat him out to the police.

Can't say I was sorry to see Daphne's sniveling husband die, and not because he was a threat to Javier.

[TaraS1]

18 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

It was heartbreaking at the beginning when Letty saw how warm and loving Javier's family is (or seemed to be), unlike her own.

Such a great point.  Very poignant and sad to see her standing there alone, watching all the loving embraces and happy tears.  But by the end, she must have been thinking that family isn't all it's cracked up to be, and Estelle really isn't so bad.

3 minutes ago, attica said:

I liked Letty's detail that certain wigs go with certain personas, and the blond has a southern accent. That feels super specific and true to me.

I loved that too.  And I loved Javier forgetting that Ava only saw Letty as a blonde in her selfie.  People forget random stuff like that, I thought it was a nice little real life touch.

[magdalene]

Javier's family strikes me very much as old world and it is truth and not a stereotype that in those families the patriarch very much rules them all. Of course in the families I have known the patriarch is not an evil douchebag.

Heck, I wish Javier would just be a chef and cook for a living. He is clearly good enough.  He probably feels though once in he can't get out.

[helenamonster]

Man, this episode was popping the whole way through. Probably the best one so far, imo, though I agree with others that it would be hard to rewatch.

Laugh-out-loud moments: Javier's face when Letty told him she didn't steal her outfit for that night, and then Letty's face later when she saw the police cars going by, even before she saw the husband's body. They are really made for each other in a sick and twisted way.

That husband had a lot of nerve going on about Javier being solely responsible for Daphne's death. "You should have said no!" Hey dude, when you hire a hitman to kill your wife, it is literally his job to say yes. Can't say I'm sorry he's dead but I do feel bad for the poor little boy who lost both his parents so close together and in such violent ways. Hopefully he has grandparents or other family that can raise him properly. I do keep wondering if we'll ever find out why the husband wanted Daphne killed in the first place.

I agree about the poignancy of the scene where Letty watched Javier's family hug each other. Her family is much smaller and not nearly as affectionate, and you could tell she really felt like she was missing out. Of course it all went to shit later though, so she's probably happy she just has to deal with sometimes-annoying Jacob, Estelle, and Rob with his penis implant.

"Already drunk. Charming." Javier's dad was a true and glorious bastard, and the actor did an excellent job of conveying his vileness. I actually yelped when he punched that poor kid.

13 hours ago, gibasi said:

I thought it was his wife that Javiar's father sent out of the room with the children but later figured it must have been his mother?  What a horrible man to hit his grandson like that and to see how everyone was too scared to call him on it!  And David is not a very nice brother.  

I think the woman was Soledad, Ava's maid/housekeeper.

8 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I can see where an Oscar would potentially have the type of contacts who could ferret out Javier's truth.  It still is a heckuva stretch, though.

Dead "Santino?"  Well, at least this time he was the youngest and not the oldest, as in The Godfather.

By Ava's ex's (Sil?) guilty face, I think it was implied that he told someone, possibly David, about Javier's real job.

Hah, I got a very Godfather vibe from this episode as well. All I could think each time they cut to Carlos was that he was definitely the Fredo of the family.

[attica]

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

Can't say I was sorry to see Daphne's sniveling husband die, and not because he was a threat to Javier.

Oooh, he pissed me right off with his "I don't know how to plan a kid's party!" whinge. No, of course he doesn't. He fobs all that work off to the wife, and it never even enters his mind how much easier she makes his life, however much he wants her dead. He seemed mad at her for not planning the kid's party from beyond the grave. Such entitlement, I swear.

 

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

Honestly. Javier is very bad at his job. He casually gives a "client" his cell number. Doesn't consider that mall parking lots have security cameras. Gets into the husband's car where a recording device could easily have been placed in advance. Pats him down to briefly check for a wire but not a gun.

Yeah, all of this twigged my 'how to do crime' database too. And do latex/nitrile gloves even let you operate a smartphone's screen?

[leighdear]

All the other professional killers on TV have burner phones they use before the hit, then they destroy them as soon as the killing is done.  Javi needs to tighten up on those kill skills!  

I loved the Letty shopping moment with the sales chick "What is this, Pretty Woman"?  *LOL*

Something tells me the nieces are going to find a way to keep in touch with Letty, despite Ava saying she'll keep them away.  Teen girls are way too crafty, and these two seem to really like her.  

[abbyzenn]

Once again I'm in the minority here - I thought the dinner scene was too drawn out and I became bored.  And seriously the family can all rally around that vile father who's killed hundreds but not Javier?  Watching him hit the grandson and no one says anything.  Why did Javier even admit he was a contract killer - the brother-in-law didn't even when the gun was aimed at him.

Ava is a hypocrite for taking her father's money but ending her relationship with Javier.  Guess money really matters.

Whenever the camera was on Michelle Dockery I was distracted - something different about her looks here maybe the makeup?  I spend the time trying to figure out what it was.

Did I miss it or we still don't know why Daphne's husband wanted to kill her?

[attica]

21 minutes ago, abbyzenn said:

And seriously the family can all rally around that vile father who's killed hundreds but not Javier? 

It's called Identification with the Aggressor. You protect yourself from what frightens you by becoming more like the thing that frightens you. Happens all the time. It's why whistleblowers get retaliated against.

[gibasi]

2 hours ago, abbyzenn said:

 And seriously the family can all rally around that vile father who's killed hundreds but not Javier? 

 

 

2 hours ago, attica said:

It's called Identification with the Aggressor. You protect yourself from what frightens you by becoming more like the thing that frightens you. Happens all the time. It's why whistleblowers get retaliated against.

 

I call it knowing which side your bread is buttered on.  Everyone is rallying around Oscar because he has all the money and power.

2 hours ago, abbyzenn said:

 

Whenever the camera was on Michelle Dockery I was distracted - something different about her looks here maybe the makeup?  I spend the time trying to figure out what it was.

 

 

Her makeup was different.  The lipstick was almost a nude color.  The eyes were more heavily done too I think.

[ZoloftBlob]

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Heck, I wish Javier would just be a chef and cook for a living. He is clearly good enough.  He probably feels though once in he can't get out.

There's also the money factor. The reality of cooking for a living is that unless you hit celebrity chef status, you're not making a lot of money, and I get the impression that Javier isn't a simple living sort.

I have to admit - I loved this episode but also found a lot of things to dislike. Yes, dad is a psycho, but unless little Santino was a child prodigy, I find it incredibly hard to believe that even in Argentina, that a father who appears to have some standing and wealth in a community could toss out his son over what by all intents sounds like an accident. I did find it plausible that Dad being such an utter asshole, would arrange after many years a penultimate moment where he showed the whining family who begged him to forgive Javier just how shitty a person Javier is....

But it felt over the top, almost mustache twirling evil. Particularly when David? Pulled the gun.

All that said, I think the bigger problem is that I don't see how this awful backstory led to Javier being a hitman for people who want real scumbags killed.

It was exciting to watch but I think it leads to some gaping plot problems.

eta - Also, all things considered - Dad killing thousands, David pulling a gun at the dinner table, is this really a family that would have a problem with someone being a contract killer?

Edited December 25, 2016 by ZoloftBlob
added stuff

[NorthstarATL]

On 12/21/2016 at 9:02 AM, TaraS1 said:

And once again, this show continues to surprise me.  I figured it would be one of those things where Letty finally explodes and lets the evil father have it with both barrels, putting him in his place and passionately defending Javier.  So I was shocked that for the most part, she just sat there in stunned, horrified silence.  But that was a good call, because the old man and at least one of the brothers were clearly violent, volatile and psychotic, and an outburst from her wouldn't have helped the situation.  So, nice work there, show.  Letty showed her support at the end, in the way that mattered most - she stayed and took him with her.

ITA with all of that! I am so used to TV shows where that is the way the scene would play out, and they faked me out with Letty wanting to switch seats with the mother, but it would not have been realistic at all for her to do that, or for it to have the impact to make it worth doing. I like that Letty isn't "magic". She didn't fix his family; in fact, the adult males seemed to see through her. She isn't really all that terrific with her kid. She can't even do simple office work. She has a limited skill set that she works well, but it doesn't carry over into all aspects of life. Same with Javier. His loose ends are as bad as hers. I guess we'll see if they weaknesses and strengths, respectively, complement each other.

[Irlandesa]

I needed to sit on this episode before responding about it during my binge but I kinda hated it. I was kind of excited for it based on the description but it felt very anti-climactic for me.

First, I found Letty annoying in this episode.  I think her insistence that there needs to be a story, a kind of crazy story, annoying.  And then she doesn't want to plan because she wants to just make something up on the go.  This works well for her but Javier's way has been working well for him.

I was also disappointed learning about Javier's story.  When you're writing a show, you only get one chance to write an origin story for the characters.  I found Javier's underwhelming.  I like Javier and I'm invested in him but, unlike with Letty, the only relationship outside of his romantic relationship by which he's defined is through his sister.  The show tried to pack a lot of history into this episode and it ended up being this flood of exposition. As a result, I didn't care about his relationship with his father because we were just introduced to him.  And I didn't care much about his dead brother.  I know this is traumatic for him but meh.

And I admit that I likely feel that way because the show went with something that doesn't have much character to me (generic little bro) while only mentioning an event far more interesting in passing that could have had a significant impact on Javier.  The actor's father was a victim of The Dirty War.  I couldn't help but think a similar situation could have helped create a thirst for vengeance in a young boy.  Maybe it manifested itself in Argentina as he sought out the men involved in committing the atrocities.  Perhaps he was unable to do anything then so when he saw a different situation in the US (similar to the story he told Letty in the next episode) it triggered old ghosts and he acted.  History is a far more interesting subject to me.

The only worthwhile moment for me was when Ava told Javier he couldn't see her or her daughters given his profession because the show actually took time to develop those connections a bit.

[TV Anonymous]

If Javier's family all the way from Argentina is able to track his activities and to connect him with the deaths, why can the police not? Why is he under any suspicion and/or investigation?

So a high-end boutique with no security measure at all? No electronic tag, no dye pack? Not even a limit to which a customer can bring to the dressing room?

[Nancypants]

18 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

If Javier's family all the way from Argentina is able to track his activities and to connect him with the deaths, why can the police not? Why is he under any suspicion and/or investigation?

So a high-end boutique with no security measure at all? No electronic tag, no dye pack? Not even a limit to which a customer can bring to the dressing room?

This show requires you to bring your Suspension of Disbelief.