S03.E11: A Book Fair To Remember / S03.E12: Get Real

[Britty]

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm an older Millennial and most of my friends are married.  Wanting to get married is not an age or generational thing, IMO.  It's not like people of my generation have given up on marriage.  I have three acquaintances my age who have been divorced already - two have since remarried.  And I live in a city of 2.5 million.... so they're probably hip enough people.

Maybe the stereotype they were going for is that younger people are more spontaneous and romantic, instead.  I don't know.

I wasn't saying I agreed with the stereotype of Millenials not marrying, simply that it would fit in with the other stereotypes the show has thrown at us (They can't put they're phones down! They talk about sex all the time! They wear wacky clothes! If they are techy, they lack social skills! Old people don't understand them!).

Maybe they were going for "impulsive" with the proposal, but it didn't come off right.

[Atlanta]

Maybe someone in the know can answer this, but it seems like Empirical is always on the verge of going out of business and the only thing keeping them afloat is that George RR Martin clone. Is that normal in the publishing world? I'm assuming the Empirical is one of the smaller houses vs the other majors.

[dubbel zout]

In this day and age, it's very normal for a smaller publishing house to be reliant on one or a small group of best-selling authors for profits. I think Charles is back to being the sole, or at least majority, owner after the Bryce debacle, and that had to have done some damage to the bottom line.

[hiccup]

I'm so glad that Liza finally told Kelsey!  I think Kelsey will be mad for awhile and it will affect the imprint.  Kelsey is a loyal friend and I think she will feel betrayed about Liza lying for so long.  If Liza had told her awhile ago, like in season 1, I think Kelsey would have been irritated but would have understood.  And if Kelsey ever finds out that Thad knew and that Liza knew that he knew and was meeting him the day he died, their friendship just might be irreparable, and I wouldn't blame Kelsey one bit.   

Josh is a sweet guy, but I agree with others that proposing wasn't a good idea.  When someone doesn't want kids or more kids, the worst thing you can do is think you can change their mind.  Sure, it happens, but why take that chance.  I want Josh to be happy, but I don't think long term happiness for him will be with Liza.  And the same goes for Liza, long term, I don't think Josh is the right guy for her.  I'm #teamCharles!

Lauren bugs me so much and I was really happy that she hadn't been in the last few episodes, so seeing her in this episode already annoyed me...ha...and then for her to not even discuss the boyfriend moving in, it was just selfish.  Kelsey handled it all a lot better than I would.  I would have been pissed with the moving of his stuff into her bedroom.  So inconsiderate.  
 

[gesundheit]

On 12/15/2016 at 10:40 PM, mikem said:

 

I'm not sure why they bothered to have Emily blackmail Liza if Kelsey never found out about it or there wasn't any other fallout from it. 

Well, the blackmail still stands so we'll see if they follow through on it at all. Telling Kelsey the truth doesn't change the potential of the EW article showing that Liza is defrauding the company.

I hope Kelsey doesn't just shrug off this betrayal. I love their friendship, and I don't think it matters that she's 40 or even that she lied about that, but the two of them have shared a lot and became close friends and Liza, the world's worst mother, kept her daughter a secret. To me that's where I struggle to like Liza.

 

Poor Josh. I was rooting for the little guy.

[dubbel zout]

37 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Liza is defrauding the company

How? Liza is doing the job she was hired to do. She's not passing Empirical secrets to another company. She's not embezzling funds. 

[gesundheit]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

How? Liza is doing the job she was hired to do. She's not passing Empirical secrets to another company. She's not embezzling funds. 

For giving them fraudulent identification documents upon hiring. I mean it's TV, nobody will care and she won't get fired, and we're meant to suspend disbelief on this stuff, but in reality she would have provided illegal documentation. Either than or HR just didn't notice! But seriously, I get that none of that really happened in the show's universe, where all she did was just say out loud that she was 26.

 

It's certainly not going to look good that 50% of Millennial is run by a 40-year-old, since the youth behind it is a selling point. (I know allegedly she's just an assistant who pitches in with the imprint, but poor Diana needs an actual assistant!)

[dubbel zout]

I see what you mean. I was looking at from Empirical's POV, in terms of payroll, Social Security, etc. That's all the same regardless of her age. 

[Atlanta]

Quote

I hope Kelsey doesn't just shrug off this betrayal. I love their friendship, and I don't think it matters that she's 40 or even that she lied about that, but the two of them have shared a lot and became close friends and Liza, the world's worst mother, kept her daughter a secret. To me that's where I struggle to like Liza.

I don't see Liza as a bad mom. During the first season, she was away in India and now's she's away at college. It's not like she needs to helicopter. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Has Younger Finally Realized That Its Female Relationships Are More Compelling Than Its Love Stories?

And more questions sparked by the Season 3 finale!

[morakot]

Yeah Charles is hot and all that, but he's still a living demonstration of sexual harassment in the workplace. It doesn't make a difference that we know she's 41, but in his mind, she's a subordinate employee who is 20 years younger than he is.  It's astoundingly inappropriate for him to kiss her (and accept her kiss). He knows that too because he's been hiding his interest from everyone but her.  No wonder Radha saw the red flags flying and left. If Liza married him, no matter how many interests they shared, she would do well to beware the next perky, bright assistant to come along.

If he was seriously interested, he should have let her continue in retail and date her from there.

As for Josh, I do feel sorry for him. He's been doing the best he can to be there for her. (Have his roommates moved out?) He's gotten to know her friends and seems to be friends with them even when she's not around (he showed Kelsey the ring, he hung out with Maggie, he's even friends with Caitlin). He's kept her secret and communicates his feelings and his wants with her clearly and articulately. She hasn't returned this in any way.

[aradia22]

Hooray, Susan Blackwell! (The photographer, Amy) 

I HATED this Liza blackmail plot. Sure, we've had blackmail plots before, but this time Liza was really selfish. She was putting the good of Millenial and Imperial behind her desire to maintain this fiction. I know there's Caitlyn to think about supporting but Caitlyn could get a job and David could help. Liza could at least try being honest. But instead we're supposed to root for her when she's prepared to put money and time and effort and resources behind a book that she feels is a stinker? 

If Charles and Liza had been on a date, all of that stuff would have been semi-cute. But they weren't and it was all kinds of inappropriate on both their parts. He should not have been telling her those stories. She should not have been encouraging him. Them going to see the concert I guess was fine. Co-workers can go to a bar together. But he should not have asked her to dance. She should not have said yes and kept encouraging him. She should not have kissed him. From his perspective, he's in a position of power way above her and she's 26. From her position, she's lying and she's pretending to be 26. They're both old enough to know better. Forget Josh catching them kissing. In any other story where a 26-year-old is flirting with her much older boss in this sort of super accommodating way, she'd be trying to entrap him. She'd either want something incriminating to blackmail him, or she'd want access to something, or she'd want to eventually marry him because he's wealthy. If you watch this, imagining that she's really 26, no one acts like that. 

Once again, Liza had the chance to tell Kelsey the truth, or at least enough of the truth without revealing her secret, but instead let her believe the worst about Josh. 

I'm not sure where they're going with Lauren's place. I think it's something about millenials and also a good place to dump characters so you don't have to ask questions... but it's still super weird. I mean, it's intentionally weird but it's hard to know how to feel about a storyline like Lauren's boyfriend has also moved in and is pushing Kelsey out of the room she stays in rent free. Eh?

I saw the Diana/parrot thing coming from a mile away.

I looked it up. Christina Kirk (Antonia Steward) played the boss on A to Z. I was wondering why her intense weirdo thing felt so familiar. I wonder if she'll be back. She served a narrative purpose but I could see her being useful. Being Erica had a character like that. But he was a more obviously scummy, new-Age-y guru.

I felt nothing when Liza finally went to see Josh. I mean, I can believe that he loves her. But I thought condensing all the sad puppy but 'I weally weally wuv you' stuff this episode was pouring it on thick. He's been written so unevenly, particularly this season. Wasn't he just giving her a free pass to sleep with one person? You can't keep writing a different character each episode because you came up with a new silly conflict and expect me to care when something big happens. I mean, I guess Josh could disappear because they did write Thad off the show but I mean... probably not, right? So where's the drama?

I do like that she finally told Kelsey at the end. I hope they spend their time off really thinking about how to play this whole thing out. 

I didn't think that Colin was the worst. He was a little insensitive but not awful to her about needing his own space without distraction with everything going on in his life. The part I would bristle at is that he's fine with her being around at his convenience to help edit his book and, you know, to have sexy fun times. It would have been an improvement if he hadn't painted all women with the same brush because of one ex-girlfriend. Generalizations usually don't reflect well on you.

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I know there's Caitlyn to think about supporting but Caitlyn could get a job and David could help.

Liza probably can't do much supporting of Caitlyn on an assistant's salary. Since Liza wasn't working before she and David divorced, he's probably shouldering most of Caitlyn's expenses.

[aradia22]

Quote

Not sure if this has been answered before, apologies if it's an old topic.  What is the demo for this show?  Is it older women like Liza (with an empathetic nod to the age range) or millenial with a judgmental view toward a middle-aged woman?  Not the writing, the audience.

My assumption is that they sold the show assuming they'd get the best of both worlds, both women around Liza's real age and millennials around Kelsey's age. But the show routinely stereotypes and insults both groups. If you go by their promotion, they seem to be targeting young people. They make a big deal about pushing social media (not that older people can't use social media but you definitely get the sense they intend for young people to be the ones giving them free publicity). The ad campaign involves that pink glittery lettering. 

[morakot]

Ah, pink, glittery lettering! so very millennial!

[dcalley]

I usually watch on demand, which frequently cuts out non-TVLand ads, but when I have had to watch the commercials there have been a lot for anti-wrinkle creams, which has both pissed me off and amused me.

EW writer Emily is going to piss me off, I can just tell.

[dubbel zout]

8 hours ago, dcalley said:

EW writer Emily is going to piss me off, I can just tell.

Her book idea isn't the worst—there's definitely a market for that sort of thing—but it sounds as if it's poorly written. If she wants the book to succeed, all the blackmailing in the world isn't going to fix that. And I can't believe she's so stupid to think Liza can force Millennium to take a bad book. (I know, plot point.)

[HunterHunted]

On 12/21/2016 at 2:33 PM, dubbel zout said:

Liza probably can't do much supporting of Caitlyn on an assistant's salary. Since Liza wasn't working before she and David divorced, he's probably shouldering most of Caitlyn's expenses.

But didn't David blow all of their money gambling. I also feel like there was something in season 2 where they talked about David basically bankrupting his dental practice and abandoning it. He was so broke that Liza had to pay the movers. They've since sold their house which probably left them with a sizeable chunk of change, but even still David is paying to go to this self-help seminar in the middle of the day instead of working.

I'm also especially irritated with Liza's actions in the finale because she made the opposite choice at the end of season 2. Thad was blackmailing Liza to keep silent about his cheating. She said she wouldn't, but she was luckily saved by a falling girder. This season, Liza knows how precarious things are at Empirical and Millennial, but covers her own ass. I actually think that Liza only decided to tell Kelsey when she saw how much Kelsey was hurting.

Edited December 23, 2016 by HunterHunted

[txhorns79]

Quote

I actually think that Liza only decided to tell Kelsey when she saw how much Kelsey was hurting.

I think it was less about Kelsey, and more about Josh pointing out to her that her lies were hurting other, innocent people, like Kelsey.  Though I guess she also was going to have to explain why she okayed that awful sounding book, so there was that hanging over her too. 

[rose711]

I love Josh because he's not afraid to deal with life and go after what he wants. I think he can do much better than Liza. He gave her everything and she still didn't realize he truly loved him.

Hard to like Liza at all anymore.

[VartanFan]

I hate the feeling that they're going to have Kelsey try to talk to Josh about how they both feel betrayed, they sleep together, and then Liza and Josh get back together.  Please no, please no, please no.  But they had Kelsey and her boyfriend breakup, too.  

[Atlanta]

On 1/10/2017 at 5:10 PM, VartanFan said:

I hate the feeling that they're going to have Kelsey try to talk to Josh about how they both feel betrayed, they sleep together, and then Liza and Josh get back together.  Please no, please no, please no.  But they had Kelsey and her boyfriend breakup, too.  

I really hope they don't go there. Don't want this show to turn into a soap opera. I also wouldn't mind if Lauren never came back. Didn't like her from the beginning.

[Eri]

On 1/10/2017 at 5:10 PM, VartanFan said:

I hate the feeling that they're going to have Kelsey try to talk to Josh about how they both feel betrayed, they sleep together, and then Liza and Josh get back together.  Please no, please no, please no.  But they had Kelsey and her boyfriend breakup, too.  

If Josh was as in love with Liza as he claimed, I have doubts that he'd be going for a rebound much less with Kelsey. I don't see Kelsey doing that to Liza either even if she now knows the truth. I think she'll be more hurt over her dishonesty but more so after the book deal announcement comes out. You don't screw over a colleague like that >_<

[Gothish520]

On 12/26/2016 at 4:10 PM, rose711 said:

I love Josh because he's not afraid to deal with life and go after what he wants. I think he can do much better than Liza. He gave her everything and she still didn't realize he truly loved him.

Hard to like Liza at all anymore.

Exactly how I'm feeling right now. Liza did not look good in these two episodes, at all. LOVED Josh telling her off.

[nara]

The only issue I have with Josh’s anger at Liza is that he gave her a Hall Pass a few episodes earlier. As I recall, he was fairly pushy about it. Of course, that didn’t mean he wanted her to kiss someone else or that she should have done that, but to go from Hall Pass to proposal in such a short time shows his immaturity.