S01.E02: Fair Game

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Leah visits the spiritual headquarters to meet with Mike Rinder, who was tasked with discrediting critics of the church before leaving it himself.

[mbaywife123]

Wow these Scientologists are really nasty when people wish to leave their CULT!

I have been reviewing various Scientology aspects for years and this is a CULT and pyramid scheme.

Their followers get so sucked in both time and money wise that they are embarrased to admit that the have been duped and robbed by their "church".

I mean good grief they actually believe that an alien Zenu populated Earth by seeding volcanoes as a prison planet! And most of them never even learn this crackpot story because they haven't paid their "church" enough money for LRH last sci-FI book.

LRH was a Acrazy man who wrote science fiction books and then wrote Dianetics and convinced a lot of people about his looney beliefs.

If you go back and look LRH interviews you can see the crazy in his eyes just like Jim Jones, David Koresh(sp) and Hitler. Creepy! David Miscavige has the same lunatic look in his eyes. This is why they don't believe in modern Psyc. or medications because they are looney tunes themselves and don't want to be outed as such.

You go Leah! Make friends with our incoming government and get their tax exempt status revoked and bankrupt them with IRS audits and back taxes. If people need to sign a petition to get this done then start one and I will sign it with no regrets!

BYW, I am not really religious in any way. I just believe that ALL people deserve to be treated with kindness and respect during our time on this planet!

[abstractstuff]

Mike Rinder is being let off the hook way too easily just for telling his truth. Sorry you have been victimized buddy, but, uhh.. Yeah... He can fuck off with his I am getting older now and want a "come to Jesus" moment. You know Mike.. You dick. Leah, how many families has Mike had a huge hand in tearing apart? This episode pissed me off. 

[mbaywife123]

16 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

Mike Rinder is being let off the hook way too easily just for telling his truth. Sorry you have been victimized buddy, but, uhh.. Yeah... He can fuck off with his I am getting older now and want a "come to Jesus" moment. You know Mike.. You dick. Leah, how many families has Mike had a huge hand in tearing apart? This episode pissed me off. 

I don't think he is getting off easy, he admits what his role was and what an asshole he was while a member in the CULT!

CULT=Brainwashed. He finally woke up and realized that this is bullshit!, and I am sorry I had a hand in this craziness.

This show pisses me off (in a good way) because the truth sometimes hurts more than the lies.

What are we waiting for, a news story about drinking poisoned drink mix, burning compounds, mass suicides?

[abstractstuff]

He  absolutely is getting off easy. He should have to answer for the admitted role he played. Just being a member of a CULT! doesn't absolve you from guilt. Watch interviews of this smug asshole. He's whining about people going through his garbage and following him and his family.. I don't know. I guess I have been watching his bullshit and this CULT! of bullshit for too long. His closet is deeep and dark and chock full. Trust that. 

[mbaywife123]

8 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

He  absolutely is getting off easy. He should have to answer for the admitted role he played. Just being a member of a CULT! doesn't absolve you from guilt. Watch interviews of this smug asshole. He's whining about people going through his garbage and following him and his family.. I don't know. I guess I have been watching his bullshit and this CULT! of bullshit for too long. His closet is deeep and dark and chock full. Trust that. 

And that is the true beauty in all of this CULTS bullshit, that we have the right to free thinking without anyone influencing our voices or our internal thoughts. I covet my mental and financial freedom all the more.

[abstractstuff]

I will give Mike the benefit of the doubt  .. When he quits playing the victim..  It's been coming on a decade guy...  I hold on to an ounce of hope that Leah is merely stroking and swallowing his BS in hopes that he will open his smug pie hole and be willing for his family he loves so much to bite the bullet and open his mouth about what he knows. He didn't expose a damn thing. This episode pretty much propped him up on the cross and martyred him. You know how much he knows and has seen? He was the main SCI troll for decades.. He's getting off way too easy.

[RedheadZombie]

59 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said:

Wow these Scientologists are really nasty when people wish to leave their CULT!

I have been reviewing various Scientology aspects for years and this is a CULT and pyramid scheme.

Their followers get so sucked in both time and money wise that they are embarrased to admit that the have been duped and robbed by their "church".

I mean good grief they actually believe that an alien Zenu populated Earth by seeding volcanoes as a prison planet! And most of them never even learn this crackpot story because they haven't paid their "church" enough money for LRH last sci-FI book.

LRH was a Acrazy man who wrote science fiction books and then wrote Dianetics and convinced a lot of people about his looney beliefs.

If you go back and look LRH interviews you can see the crazy in his eyes just like Jim Jones, David Koresh(sp) and Hitler. Creepy! David Miscavige has the same lunatic look in his eyes. This is why they don't believe in modern Psyc. or medications because they are looney tunes themselves and don't want to be outed as such.

You go Leah! Make friends with our incoming government and get their tax exempt status revoked and bankrupt them with IRS audits and back taxes. If people need to sign a petition to get this done then start one and I will sign it with no regrets!

BYW, I am not really religious in any way. I just believe that ALL people deserve to be treated with kindness and respect during our time on this planet!

LRH also spent years writing his brilliant psychology book, and was laughed out of town by the American Psychiatric Association.  That's why his "religion" is entirely anti-psychiatry.  They actually attempt to pin the Holocaust on psychiatry!

LRH also had some connection to Aleister Crowley, who was a founding father of Satanism.  The CO$ cross is thought to be inspired by one that represented Crowley's cult - Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

LRH's wife told of her abuses at the hands of her husband.  The one that sticks in my mind - he kidnapped their daughter, and told his wife that he had chopped the child up in little pieces.  He would also beat her when he caught her smiling in her sleep.  Apparently, it meant she was thinking of another man.  He was cruel and borderline insane.  Yet there are people who look at him, and think - That's my Messiah!

[RedheadZombie]

Can anybody explain how CO$ worked to make the world a better place?  I mean, seriously, how do they think they're accomplishing it?  They actually seem to think they're saving the planet.  But how?  Charging exorbitant amounts of money for the "privilege" of being a Scientologist?  Buying the BS books and attending seminars?  Using their massive financial income to build gigantic building throughout the world, that are reportedly mostly empty?

They seem to think they were saving the day after 9/11, when they donated their services to first responders - all snakeoil remedies and treatments that they wrote off on their taxes.  Disgusting.

[mbaywife123]

6 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

I will give Mike the benefit of the doubt  .. When he quits playing the victim..  It's been coming on a decade guy...  I hold on to an ounce of hope that Leah is merely stroking and swallowing his BS in hopes that he will open his smug pie hole and be willing for his family he loves so much to bite the bullet and open his mouth about what he knows. He didn't expose a damn thing. This episode pretty much propped him up on the cross and martyred him. You know how much he knows and has seen? He was the main SCI troll for decades.. He's getting off way too easy.

Okay, I agree with the fact that he should give up more of the the CULTS secrets and put them even further into the dumpster even if it is to his own detriment/redemption.

[mbaywife123]

13 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

LRH also spent years writing his brilliant psychology book, and was laughed out of town by the American Psychiatric Association.  That's why his "religion" is entirely anti-psychiatry.  They actually attempt to pin the Holocaust on psychiatry!

LRH also had some connection to Aleister Crowley, who was a founding father of Satanism.  The CO$ cross is thought to be inspired by one that represented Crowley's cult - Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

LRH's wife told of her abuses at the hands of her husband.  The one that sticks in my mind - he kidnapped their daughter, and told his wife that he had chopped the child up in little pieces.  He would also beat her when he caught her smiling in her sleep.  Apparently, it meant she was thinking of another man.  He was cruel and borderline insane.  Yet there are people who look at him, and think - That's my Messiah!

I think you are being kind in calling LRH borderline insane. The man was fruit loops crazy.

By the way as Leah asked where is Shelly Miscavige?

[Stuffy]

It's been awhile since I watched Going Clear, but I feel like it talked about LRH knowing he was going crazy. I wish I could remember better. 

[RedheadZombie]

15 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said:

I think you are being kind in calling LRH borderline insane. The man was fruit loops crazy.

By the way as Leah asked where is Shelly Miscavige?

You're right - I should have said bat-shit crazy.

Leah put in a missing persons report after the Cruise wedding extravaganza.  From what I've read, at some point they police talked to her on the phone, and that was that.  Now let's put aside that they couldn't really know who they were talking to, since when is one phone call a reassurance that someone isn't being held against there will.  Question someone in front of their captor, and they're going to say what they're told to say. 

There is a chance she's been in the hole all these years, and would honestly say she doesn't want to leave.  In Going Clear, Rathbun or Rinder talked about a group of higher ups receiving training (punishment) in one of the trailers in California.  They would have to play musical chairs, and people would come to blows over the chairs.  Why did they fight so dramatically for a damn chair - for the honor of STAYING in the trailer, and continuing with their own torture.  So I can buy Shelly stating she's fine and wants to stay.  She's a POW at this point, and surely broken.

[mbaywife123]

5 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

You're right - I should have said bat-shit crazy.

Leah put in a missing persons report after the Cruise wedding extravaganza.  From what I've read, at some point they police talked to her on the phone, and that was that.  Now let's put aside that they couldn't really know who they were talking to, since when is one phone call a reassurance that someone isn't being held against there will.  Question someone in front of their captor, and they're going to say what they're told to say. 

There is a chance she's been in the hole all these years, and would honestly say she doesn't want to leave.  In Going Clear, Rathbun or Rinder talked about a group of higher ups receiving training (punishment) in one of the trailers in California.  They would have to play musical chairs, and people would come to blows over the chairs.  Why did they fight so dramatically for a damn chair - for the honor of STAYING in the trailer, and continuing with their own torture.  So I can buy Shelly stating she's fine and wants to stay.  She's a POW at this point, and surely broken.

I read the missing persons report and the law enforcement resoponse to it. What a load of bullshit.

I think Shelly is either drugged (sedated daily) out of her mind or is dead. 

Come on law enforcement get off of your asses and go speak to her face to face or endure the wrath of the on coming investigations filed by non "church" CULT  members about your shoddy investigation and inquiries as to her well being. What if this was your daughter, mother, sister, aunt ? 

[spiderpig]

Just about to view the latest episode.  I always get Rinder and Rathbun mixed up.  I think they were both in a frightening British documentary where the cult went after the reporter, staking out his hotel and waiting in the lobby so he could get cornered by Tommy Davis (remember him???)  The reporter lost his cool and really lashed out.  He later admitted (embarrassed) that he couldn't control himself.

[zxy556575]

This episode was disappointing. Well, the first one was as well but I was hoping that was just an introductory review.

I'm tired of Rinder's smug face. He may be well meaning but he's got his 30 years younger wife and new family now and isn't saying anything he hasn't said a hundred times before. I agree that there are secrets he's not telling, probably because they reflect badly on him. It also doesn't seem like Leah intends to talk about how the religion works or what it teaches except for those policies she disagrees with.

I was flabbergasted that Rinder lives in Clearwater, but his explanation about his son made some sense. Otherwise, jeez, dude.

[mbaywife123]

16 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Just about to view the latest episode.  I always get Rinder and Rathbun mixed up.  I think they were both in a frightening British documentary where the cult went after the reporter, staking out his hotel and waiting in the lobby so he could get cornered by Tommy Davis (remember him???)  The reporter lost his cool and really lashed out.  He later admitted (embarrassed) that he couldn't control himself.

Rinder and Davis were the ones who attacked the reporter and spewed nonsense at him.

Don't blame the reporter one bit for losing his head at the loons at the time.

Rinder acknowled his wrong doing at the time. What ever happened to Rathbun and Davis?, are they in the hole also?

Edited December 7, 2016 by mbaywife123
Run on sentenance

[Jade Foxx]

1 hour ago, abstractstuff said:

I will give Mike the benefit of the doubt  .. When he quits playing the victim..  It's been coming on a decade guy...  I hold on to an ounce of hope that Leah is merely stroking and swallowing his BS in hopes that he will open his smug pie hole and be willing for his family he loves so much to bite the bullet and open his mouth about what he knows. He didn't expose a damn thing. This episode pretty much propped him up on the cross and martyred him. You know how much he knows and has seen? He was the main SCI troll for decades.. He's getting off way too easy.

He doesn't seem very contrite. At all. "To all of the people I may have hurt?" Cry me a river, asshole. 

Have an older cousin who gave up everything to become a Scientologist as an adult, we told her she was insane. She disconnected from all of us, years later we found out the Church kicked her out for some "infraction." 

It was all very bizarre to us, especially because in the black community we have more devout/fanatical Christians - not CO$. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Jade Foxx

[abstractstuff]

Replace Rinder with the name Phelps and swap the two out.. COS has compounds and ships and bodies.. I don't know.. I have to remember that not everyone has been seeing and learning about their shit for decades. He's not being up front.  I don't buy a word he is saying. And, Leah? Girl.. 

[spiderpig]

57 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said:

Rinder and Davis were the ones who attacked the reporter and spewed nonsense at him.

Don't blame the reporter one bit for losing his head at the loons at the time.

Rinder acknowled his wrong doing at the time. What ever happened to Rathbun and Davis?, are they in the hole also?

Yes, it was the BBC Panorama show with John Sweeney that I remembered seeing.

Last I heard of Tommy Davis he had taken a sabbatical and was in Texas.  Austin, I think.  This was awhile back, and I haven't seen anything connecting him to CO$ lately.  Maybe he's in The Hole with Shelley, or he blew and is lying low.   I guess his mom (Anne Archer) and stepdad (Terry Jastrow) are still into the cult.  

I didn't know what to think about Rinder.  He was brought into the cult at age 6, and we know the clam kids receive virtually no education or anything that will help them get along in the outside world.  How is Rinder supporting his current family these days?  Did they mention it?

I also wondered about the pix of his first family, where wife and daughter were shown but the son was fuzzed out.  Why?

The pix they show of Miscavige make him look absolutely demented.

This is a really fascinating program.

[RedheadZombie]

4 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

Rinder and Davis were the ones who attacked the reporter and spewed nonsense at him.

Don't blame the reporter one bit for losing his head at the loons at the time.

Rinder acknowled his wrong doing at the time. What ever happened to Rathbun and Davis?, are they in the hole also?

Tommy Davis and his wife Jessica were off the grid for a couple of years.  There were lots of rumors that they were in the hole, but I don't know that it was ever proven.  Jessica was Katie Holmes's minder, and accompanied her when out in public, on interviews, at events, etc.  I remember reading articles early in the TomKat relationship, and one writer specifically talked about how odd Katie acted, and how her minder had her nose in everything.  It was very clear that Katie was being babysat, and perhaps not even fully in control of her own life during the interview.  I believe Katie fired her long time manager and agent, and Jessica picked up these roles. 

If Tommy and Jessica left the "church", it's been kept quiet.  I haven't found any press about it.  There were also rumors that Tommy is Suri's sperm donor because of the similarity in looks.

Marty's out doing his thing, but I'm not sure what it is.  Like Rinder, he lost his wife when he left the cult, and even children (if he had them).  Both Marty's and Rinder's wives were sent onto CNN, or some other interview show, to trash their ex-husbands as incompetent, mentally ill, evil, etc.  Marty has a new wife (I'm not sure about kids).  Since it's difficult for ex-CO$ to sue the church, as his wife was never a member, she sued for long-term harassment.  I don't know how that resulted.

[shelley1234]

Listening to the audio of the Scientology nutjobs (including Rinder's family) screaming at him was staggering.....  

I think Leah and all the other high ranking defectors of Scientology should make a mass effort to Fair Game all those currently in charge in Scientology....you know...goose...gander.  It would entertain the crap out of me.  

[Amers]

I have a finish this episode, but on the topic of Shelley Miscavaige, has there ever been speculation as to WHY she isn't around? If she is being punished, why? I've read a lot about where she might be, or that they had contact with her, but never WHY she suddenly disappeared. There had to be a reason, and gosh darn it, I want to know. 

[Primetimer]

And more not-quite-burning questions about 'Fair Game.'

View the full article

[jrlr]

10 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

they actually believe that an alien Zenu populated Earth by seeding volcanoes as a prison planet

Can someone please explain how a crackpot cult that believes in aliens got granted tax exempt church status?  

[spiderpig]

1 minute ago, jrlr said:

Can someone please explain how a crackpot cult that believes in aliens got granted tax exempt church status?  

Operation Snow White.  CO$ infiltrated the IRS in the 70s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

[spiderpig]

59 minutes ago, Amers said:

I have a finish this episode, but on the topic of Shelley Miscavaige, has there ever been speculation as to WHY she isn't around? If she is being punished, why? I've read a lot about where she might be, or that they had contact with her, but never WHY she suddenly disappeared. There had to be a reason, and gosh darn it, I want to know. 

Apparently Shelly overstepped her bounds while Davy was out of town by reorganizing files.

http://tonyortega.org/2015/09/07/ten-years-gone-shelly-miscavige-the-wife-scientologys-leader-wants-us-to-forget/

[verysimple]

  10 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

they actually believe that an alien Zenu populated Earth by seeding volcanoes as a prison planet

Can someone please explain how a crackpot cult that believes in aliens got granted tax exempt church status?  

[Lawyer hat]
From a purely legal perspective, courts try not to get into the business of evaulating the tenets of particular faiths - that pesky first amendment prohibits it. It's only when those tenets come into conflict with *other* fundamental rights* that they're required to balance them (aka - the right to be free from racial discrimination) - this is why, say, Bob Jones University could be threatened with loss of its tax exempt status for being racist. But that's a really narrow set of circumstances.

*fundamental rights are not what "you or I" would think of as fundamental, but in this case, a specific set of rights defined by the constitution as interpreted by the supreme court. Generally, most (but not all!) of the rights set forth in the bill of rights are considered fundamental, and have been determined to be applicable to the state via the 14th amendment
[/lawyer hat]

From a less-legalistic perspective, scientologists basically blackmailed the IRS via operation snow white.

[jrlr]

Thanks spiderpig and very simple, I'm going to have to read about Operation Snow White.  I didn't even know who Leah Remini was until this (guess I missed and entire era on TV!), but even though she is a little over the top for me, if this series is even 20% accurate, maybe it will help topple this grifter/totalitarian (what a weird combo) organization.  

[Al Lowe]

Things I want to know:

More about The Hole! I read about it in Going Clear and everything, but I still don't understand exactly WTF is going on with that. Like, do people consigned to The Hole FOR YEARS come out every day and go to work and then go back and have nonstop Fight Club every night before sleeping on the floor? Or do they literally stay inside a trailer 24/7, eating slop and beating each other up? How do they survive any scenario? How is he even walking around like a normal person after that? How, now that the reality of it has been made public, has there not been some kind of FBI takedown of this place?

Also, how are all these uneducated people any good at ANYthing? How is their security so good? Their financial scheme? None of them even went to high school!

[spiderpig]

6 minutes ago, jrlr said:

Thanks spiderpig and very simple, I'm going to have to read about Operation Snow White.  I didn't even know who Leah Remini was until this (guess I missed and entire era on TV!), but even though she is a little over the top for me, if this series is even 20% accurate, maybe it will help topple this grifter/totalitarian (what a weird combo) organization.  

This is what gets me, JRLR.  This "church" does evil, horrible and nasty things to people and not only gets away with it, they get away with it tax-free.

Leah has her own motivation, but it's about time more high-profile people blew the whistle on this cult.  These days, nobody pays attention unless you're a celebrity.

Relevant to last night's ep - I'm now developing a morbid fear of birdhouses!!!

[mirandroid]

When Leah was leaving the Rinders' house, a neighboring home had a compass decoration over their garage with north pointing to the right. Anyone else notice that? They may have hung it to be accurately directional, but it bugged me that north wasn't "up". 

Seriously though, they may want to check that thing for a camera.

[questionfear]

1 hour ago, spiderpig said:

Apparently Shelly overstepped her bounds while Davy was out of town by reorganizing files.

http://tonyortega.org/2015/09/07/ten-years-gone-shelly-miscavige-the-wife-scientologys-leader-wants-us-to-forget/

Yes. David Miscavage's niece talks about her aunt's disappearance in her book too. Shelley and Jenna were apparently fairly close. 

I highly recommend Jenna M's book, she was basically raised in Scientology and her leaving was a big deal. Interestingly, her parents left when she was a teenager, and Mike Rinder was among the people who tried to bully her into leaving as well so her parents would not sue the Church.  She ended up staying, only to leave years later. 

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, verysimple said:

[Lawyer hat]
From a purely legal perspective, courts try not to get into the business of evaulating the tenets of particular faiths - that pesky first amendment prohibits it. It's only when those tenets come into conflict with *other* fundamental rights* that they're required to balance them (aka - the right to be free from racial discrimination) - this is why, say, Bob Jones University could be threatened with loss of its tax exempt status for being racist. But that's a really narrow set of circumstances.

*fundamental rights are not what "you or I" would think of as fundamental, but in this case, a specific set of rights defined by the constitution as interpreted by the supreme court. Generally, most (but not all!) of the rights set forth in the bill of rights are considered fundamental, and have been determined to be applicable to the state via the 14th amendment
[/lawyer hat]

From a less-legalistic perspective, scientologists basically blackmailed the IRS via operation snow white.

It was also mentioned in "Going Clear" that they had members file thousands of individual lawsuits all over the country, naming not only the IRS but the IRS Commissioner and specific agents - these were going to be very costly to defend.  In the end, I think they just wore the IRS  out.

However.....since CO$ is so damned fond of lawsuits.  It would be gratifying to see the ex members who have suffered harassment and abuse after leaving the church or have had defaming web pages put up about them individually file lawsuits in the STATE courts where they live against CO$.  Each individual would have unique causes of action, they wouldn't have to form a class action.  Ask for exemplary and punitive damages.  In the millions.   

CO$ is fond of accusing the apostates of "crimes" and "depraved" behavior.  Okay, since they are stating it as a matter of fact and not opinion, a cause of action for libel.  Now, here's the good part -- if they try to introduce the notes from the auditing sessions as a defense for libel, the plaintiff(s) should move in limine that this evidence should be barred because as a so-called "Church" the auditing sessions are protected under the CO$ version of "priest/penitant" and is therefore privileged. 

[Cherry Cola]

11 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Can anybody explain how CO$ worked to make the world a better place?  I mean, seriously, how do they think they're accomplishing it?  They actually seem to think they're saving the planet.  But how?  Charging exorbitant amounts of money for the "privilege" of being a Scientologist?  Buying the BS books and attending seminars?  Using their massive financial income to build gigantic building throughout the world, that are reportedly mostly empty?

They seem to think they were saving the day after 9/11, when they donated their services to first responders - all snakeoil remedies and treatments that they wrote off on their taxes.  Disgusting.

Yeah, how are they bettering the planet by bullying people who disagree with them?! That's making it a worse place! 

I was shocked, shocked, that Mike had to live in the hole for 2 years. What the hell?! Why do they think this is normal? When they showed the video of him after he was sent to London, I believe, he looked like hell.  You can tell he had been hidden away.  So scary.   Their church leaders beating them? No way would I put up with that.  I am a Christian, and I love my pastor, but if he ever hit me, I would be outta that church so fast! This boggles my mind. 

[shelley1234]

10 minutes ago, Sgt Pepper said:

Yeah, how are they bettering the planet by bullying people who disagree with them?! That's making it a worse place! 

I was shocked, shocked, that Mike had to live in the hole for 2 years. What the hell?! Why do they think this is normal? When they showed the video of him after he was sent to London, I believe, he looked like hell.  You can tell he had been hidden away.  So scary.   Their church leaders beating them? No way would I put up with that.  I am a Christian, and I love my pastor, but if he ever hit me, I would be outta that church so fast! This boggles my mind. 

Would you though?  If you had no education, no place to live, no money and no prospects for a job outside of what the Church could provide for you???  I think that is one of the main reasons that Scientology gets away with so much because they make their members completely dependent on them unless they happen to be those independently wealthy celebs, etc.  

[Jade Foxx]

1 hour ago, Al Lowe said:

How is he even walking around like a normal person after that? 

THIS. After years of indoctrination, committing heinous acts against other human beings, losing his family, being tortured, traumatized, and held captive - his affect is like he merely had a bad incident at Costco. 

Wonder if he's had any counseling or psychiatric intervention. *snort*

He seems like he might snap one day and go on a killing spree. BAD VIBES FROM THIS DUDE. 

[shelley1234]

I don't get any bad vibes from Rinder.  To me he behaves like a classic whistleblower.  I think that he is probably just better equipped to handle what he knew was coming for him when he left....because he truly knew.  He basically has a "come at me" attitude and I respect it.  And look at him now....with a much better life.  That probably has Scientology miffed more than anything else....because they couldn't destroy him, no matter how hard they tried.  

[Cherry Cola]

43 minutes ago, shelley1005 said:

Would you though?  If you had no education, no place to live, no money and no prospects for a job outside of what the Church could provide for you???  I think that is one of the main reasons that Scientology gets away with so much because they make their members completely dependent on them unless they happen to be those independently wealthy celebs, etc.  

Fair point.  That has to be why they stay.  Otherwise it makes no sense.   I still don't see why they have to pay to be audited.  Seems ridiculous.  It all is so ridiculous!

[shelley1234]

29 minutes ago, Sgt Pepper said:

Fair point.  That has to be why they stay.  Otherwise it makes no sense.   I still don't see why they have to pay to be audited.  Seems ridiculous.  It all is so ridiculous!

 

I know.  Paying to be audited is so ridiculous.  It's just another power move from the church.

It doesn't make sense to an outsider, but it's amazing the power of indoctrination.  There is also such a powerful hold on a belief.  I remember being mystified when I was in grad school and we were going over how people will change absolute facts in order to have it meld and match their strongly held beliefs....and then of course seeing it hold true time and time again in my practice.  Beliefs are something that it takes so much time and work to challenge and change.  

When I watched Leah on Watch What Happens Live the other week...someone asked her if she thought John Travolta would leave Scientology if he knew all that she knew.  Leah got real serious and said that she thinks John is one of the nicest, kindest people she has ever met...and that he truly believes in Scientology.  

Edited December 7, 2016 by shelley1005

[zxy556575]

10 hours ago, spiderpig said:

I didn't know what to think about Rinder. He was brought into the cult at age 6, and we know the clam kids receive virtually no education or anything that will help them get along in the outside world. How is Rinder supporting his current family these days? Did they mention it?

They didn't mention it but the video footage of him being harassed at his former job was a car dealership. I highly doubt he's a mechanic, so car salesman seems about right. That's one of things that would have been interesting to discuss -- how people who leave find jobs and make new lives with little education or relevant work experience.

2 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

Each individual would have unique causes of action, they wouldn't have to form a class action. Ask for exemplary and punitive damages. In the millions.

The thought of mass lawsuits is appealing but that's asking a lot of any attorneys, who would then be subject to 24 hour scrutiny and retaliation themselves. Sigh.

1 hour ago, shelley1005 said:

Would you though? If you had no education, no place to live, no money and no prospects for a job outside of what the Church could provide for you???

And maybe no relatives or friends outside to help you. I'd be willing to contribute to a fund that provides contact information for a way out and assistance to members who want to leave. It's the church keeping people prisoner that upsets me the most.

Edited December 7, 2016 by lordonia

[3girlsforus]

I wonder why the scientology people don't realize that terrorizing people who leave in this bat shit crazy way actually bolsters the credibility of those they are harassing.  It's not the way to paint someone as a disgruntled liar. 

[Carolina Girl]

59 minutes ago, Sgt Pepper said:

The thought of mass lawsuits is appealing but that's asking a lot of the attorneys, who would then be subject to 24 hour scrutiny and retaliation.

(Why can't I delete a quote if I change my mind - got to be a better way to do this).

Lordonia - that's an excellent and valid point, considering their past behaviors.  However, if they even attempted to intimidate the plaintiffs' lawyers, those guys (CO$) and their attorneys would be hauled in front of a judge and a request for SANCTIONS would be made and probably a request for a gag order granted.   You'd be amazed how pissed off judges get when litigants try to mess with personnel involved in their court proceedings.  If you think Judge Judy or Judge Milian gets pissed, wait till you see a REAL judge go after a dirtbag litigant.  

[Carolina Girl]

shelley --

The documentary Going Clear explained that "notes" are kept of the auditing sessions and that these notes are complied into "books" about the subjects, and especially with regard to celebrities.  These books in many cases contain the subject's deepest fears, truths, secrets, etc.  If, say the content of these books were to "somehow" be made public, it could be devastating.  There's reason to believe that Travolta knows this and therefore won't say anything derogatory about CO$ (by the way, KUDOS to whoever thought up that abbreviation) for fear something will "somehow" find it's way to a supermarket tabloid - even when his own handler, who was close to and fond of, was suddenly put in the 7th-floor reeducation facility in Los Angeles for years.   

[shelley1234]

1 hour ago, Carolina Girl said:

shelley --

The documentary Going Clear explained that "notes" are kept of the auditing sessions and that these notes are complied into "books" about the subjects, and especially with regard to celebrities.  These books in many cases contain the subject's deepest fears, truths, secrets, etc.  If, say the content of these books were to "somehow" be made public, it could be devastating.  There's reason to believe that Travolta knows this and therefore won't say anything derogatory about CO$ (by the way, KUDOS to whoever thought up that abbreviation) for fear something will "somehow" find it's way to a supermarket tabloid - even when his own handler, who was close to and fond of, was suddenly put in the 7th-floor reeducation facility in Los Angeles for years.   

While that may be true....I'll take Leah's genuine answer about Travolta and his feelings about Scientology.   

[Wings]

16 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

I think you are being kind in calling LRH borderline insane. The man was fruit loops crazy.

By the way as Leah asked where is Shelly Miscavige?

Yes, Leah asked where is Shelly.  She was told she was visiting a sick relative IIRC.  It is in her book. 

[Wings]

3 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

(Why can't I delete a quote if I change my mind - got to be a better way to do this).

Lordonia - that's an excellent and valid point, considering their past behaviors.  However, if they even attempted to intimidate the plaintiffs' lawyers, those guys (CO$) and their attorneys would be hauled in front of a judge and a request for SANCTIONS would be made and probably a request for a gag order granted.   You'd be amazed how pissed off judges get when litigants try to mess with personnel involved in their court proceedings.  If you think Judge Judy or Judge Milian gets pissed, wait till you see a REAL judge go after a dirtbag litigant.  

Judge Judy and Milan are real judges in small claims court.  

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Carolina Girl said:

shelley --

The documentary Going Clear explained that "notes" are kept of the auditing sessions and that these notes are complied into "books" about the subjects, and especially with regard to celebrities.  These books in many cases contain the subject's deepest fears, truths, secrets, etc.  If, say the content of these books were to "somehow" be made public, it could be devastating.  There's reason to believe that Travolta knows this and therefore won't say anything derogatory about CO$ (by the way, KUDOS to whoever thought up that abbreviation) for fear something will "somehow" find it's way to a supermarket tabloid - even when his own handler, who was close to and fond of, was suddenly put in the 7th-floor reeducation facility in Los Angeles for years.   

It would not surprise me to learn Travolta might fear exposure on private matters if he denounces the church. You don't hear him talking about it at all so who knows what he believes.  Those who live in church buildings have to sneak away, he lives independently.   It behooves him to remain mum.  He would not share any dissatisfaction with Leah so we really don't know. 

[Jade Foxx]

5 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

I don't get any bad vibes from Rinder.  To me he behaves like a classic whistleblower.  I think that he is probably just better equipped to handle what he knew was coming for him when he left....because he truly knew.  He basically has a "come at me" attitude and I respect it.  And look at him now....with a much better life.  That probably has Scientology miffed more than anything else....because they couldn't destroy him, no matter how hard they tried.  

Granted, I knew nothing of Rinder before this show/expose....to me, his demeanor seems inconsistent with what he's been involved with and gone through. Nine years is a short amount of time to overcome a lifetime of indoctrination, atone for the pain he caused others, and readjust to regular life. 

His half-assed apology didn't help my initial opinion. 

[Rlb8031]

8 minutes ago, Jade Foxx said:

Granted, I knew nothing of Rinder before this show/expose....to me, his demeanor seems inconsistent with what he's been involved with and gone through. Nine years is a short amount of time to overcome a lifetime of indoctrination, atone for the pain he caused others, and readjust to regular life. 

His half-assed apology didn't help my initial opinion. 

I think that part of the Rinder deal is that he "knows". The thing about Scientology is that at the very top, the people know that the pursuits of the church are about maintaining a lifestyle for the top echelon of Sea Org. That is a very, very, very small group of people and despite what might be initial thoughts - does not include the extended family of any of the leaders. Jenna's book talked about the fact that when Miscavige became the successor to LRH, it didn't mean that she or an of the other nieces and nephews got better treatment. They were still subjected to deep brainwashing through auditing, still had to perform backbreaking labor, etc. Indeed it seemed like there was an effort to make examples out of them. The people that were favored were individuals and they were all hand-selected by David. Rinder as the person who had to carry out the orders could easily see that some like Cruise - were treated well for no reason other than they brought significant sums of money to the church, and others were treated poorly for no good reason. He takes responsibility for that, but I think that he also realizes that he did some really shitty things to people for no reason other than Miscavige was having a bad day. His years spent in the hole were the down payment on making up for that, but there really isn't much he or the others can do, other than to try to expose the organization.