S03.E05: The French Revolution

[CooperTV]

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When an imminent U.S.-France state dinner is jeopardized after a CIA operative is captured by French intelligence, Elizabeth must negotiate the operative’s release while keeping the event on track. Also, Russell tries to woo back big donors to Dalton’s campaign, and the McCords get an important lead in their family’s stalking case

 

 

 

Promo pics

[Kromm]

Ho-hum. Bored now.

[Dowel Jones]

Henry made it through an entire episode without getting someone killed.  He even "rescued" an agent.  I had to laugh when daughter #2 whines to Elizabeth on "Do you know what it's like having a DSS agent follow you around everywhere you go?"  To which Elizabeth should have answered "Well, yes. To the nth degree. Especially those times when my detail was under attack by terrorists with real weapons and real bullets, and my friends got killed.  Next question?"

I don't know how that billionare got to where he is with the tactics he used to try and get Elizabeth to quit.  That was just, plain, incompetent.  But I really did like Elizabeth and Henry's smackdown of him and the way they led up to it.

So the French are on our side now, and the cheese is flowing westward.  And we busted up the ring, and saved the antiquities!  Because that's really worth risking soldiers/SEALs lives.

[bros402]

That was a stupid billionaire.

 

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

Henry made it through an entire episode without getting someone killed.  He even "rescued" an agent.  I had to laugh when daughter #2 whines to Elizabeth on "Do you know what it's like having a DSS agent follow you around everywhere you go?"  To which Elizabeth should have answered "Well, yes. To the nth degree. Especially those times when my detail was under attack by terrorists with real weapons and real bullets, and my friends got killed.  Next question?"

I don't know how that billionare got to where he is with the tactics he used to try and get Elizabeth to quit.  That was just, plain, incompetent.  But I really did like Elizabeth and Henry's smackdown of him and the way they led up to it.

So the French are on our side now, and the cheese is flowing westward.  And we busted up the ring, and saved the antiquities!  Because that's really worth risking soldiers/SEALs lives.

There was the value of the intel from the facility - and they had support from the French military.

[shapeshifter]

I enjoyed the delivery of Bess's response to 2nd daughter's lament about needing therapy in the future, "Do you want therapy?" BTW, she probably does need therapy post-stalking.

I liked Bess's dress at the State dinner/dance.

[Pop Tart]

Boy was that a stupid resolution to the stalking story. When they first caught the guy I knew that he wasn't the actual end game of the stalking and I was dreading it dragging out for another few episodes, but the reveal that the billionaire was the driving force behind it all? Just stupid. He got his trusted staffer to hack them and have someone write graffiti in Bess's office? Really? Billionaires have power of press and government and business. He could have planted stories about Bess with the press to make her look bad or been bending the ears of other powerful lobbyists and politicians to put pressure on Conrad to ditch her. Those would be logical paths to his goal. This rinky-dink plan was moronic.

And to have Henry in the situation room while the Seal Team did their bit was so irritating. He's now so powerful and important that he's standing shoulder to shoulder with the president and the generals while an op is happening and Bess isn't even in the room? Really? I may have to give up this show just because I'm so tired of he-man, macho Henry. I miss the religious ethics professor of the first season who was a much more interesting guy. This version is just boring and irritating.

More and more it seems like Bess is getting sidelined so that Henry can have his action plots. Which is not why I initially started watching.

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

And to have Henry in the situation room while the Seal Team did their bit was so irritating. He's now so powerful and important that he's standing shoulder to shoulder with the president and the generals while an op is happening and Bess isn't even in the room? Really? I may have to give up this show just because I'm so tired of he-man, macho Henry. I miss the religious ethics professor of the first season who was a much more interesting guy. This version is just boring and irritating.

More and more it seems like Bess is getting sidelined so that Henry can have his action plots. Which is not why I initially started watching.

I have the exact same problem. I feel that they can do so much more with Henry because they can go into all those different directions whereas they're stuck in more or less one direction with Bess. Of course, they knew that going in but it's just becoming slightly frustrating if they expand the male character in what feels an improprtional way. I get that Daly didn't want to be stuck being a professor and househusband for the entire run of a show, that is not really challenging as an actor, still, the show is about the woman and I think she should be the one they have the most story options for and who they can lead into many different directions and she should be the dominant character.

I miss the "man beside the woman". I mean, he still is to the public because the public doesn't know about what he does and to the public he's still "just" a college professor (I think he is?) but we are not the public in that case. We get to see the behind-the-scenes and the behind-the-scenes does not suggest "man beside the woman".

[HurricaneVal]

Russell in a swiveting panic with the heaving fantods will never, ever get old. 

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Boy was that a stupid resolution to the stalking story. When they first caught the guy I knew that he wasn't the actual end game of the stalking and I was dreading it dragging out for another few episodes, but the reveal that the billionaire was the driving force behind it all? Just stupid. He got his trusted staffer to hack them and have someone write graffiti in Bess's office? Really? Billionaires have power of press and government and business. He could have planted stories about Bess with the press to make her look bad or been bending the ears of other powerful lobbyists and politicians to put pressure on Conrad to ditch her. Those would be logical paths to his goal. This rinky-dink plan was moronic.

And to have Henry in the situation room while the Seal Team did their bit was so irritating. He's now so powerful and important that he's standing shoulder to shoulder with the president and the generals while an op is happening and Bess isn't even in the room? Really? I may have to give up this show just because I'm so tired of he-man, macho Henry. I miss the religious ethics professor of the first season who was a much more interesting guy. This version is just boring and irritating.

More and more it seems like Bess is getting sidelined so that Henry can have his action plots. Which is not why I initially started watching.

 

1 hour ago, CheshireCat said:

I have the exact same problem. I feel that they can do so much more with Henry because they can go into all those different directions whereas they're stuck in more or less one direction with Bess. Of course, they knew that going in but it's just becoming slightly frustrating if they expand the male character in what feels an improprtional way. I get that Daly didn't want to be stuck being a professor and househusband for the entire run of a show, that is not really challenging as an actor, still, the show is about the woman and I think she should be the one they have the most story options for and who they can lead into many different directions and she should be the dominant character.

I miss the "man beside the woman". I mean, he still is to the public because the public doesn't know about what he does and to the public he's still "just" a college professor (I think he is?) but we are not the public in that case. We get to see the behind-the-scenes and the behind-the-scenes does not suggest "man beside the woman".

Me too.  I've hated since they started going in this direction with Henry. If the roles were reversed we wouldn't be seeing the wife doing any of this stuff. We'd see her taking care of the house and the kids, and other duties that political wife does. Ever since they started bumping up Henry, Bess has been getting more and more sideline. We're not watching Madam Secretary. We're watching Henry McCord. Watch Henry as he fixes the entire world! Watch Henry as he catches the Terrorists! There's no need for a President or Secretary of State when you have Henry!  He is always right! It really stinks. I started watching because I liked Bess. I wanted to see her navigate politics, crisis and fix problems. I still really like Bess. But I don't want to watch the Henry McCord show.

[Netfoot]

5 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

More and more it seems like Bess is getting sidelined so that Henry can have his action plots. Which is not why I initially started watching.

Ditto.

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

 

Me too.  I've hated since they started going in this direction with Henry. If the roles were reversed we wouldn't be seeing the wife doing any of this stuff. We'd see her taking care of the house and the kids, and other duties that political wife does. Ever since they started bumping up Henry, Bess has been getting more and more sideline. We're not watching Madam Secretary. We're watching Henry McCord. Watch Henry as he fixes the entire world! Watch Henry as he catches the Terrorists! There's no need for a President or Secretary of State when you have Henry!  He is always right! It really stinks. I started watching because I liked Bess. I wanted to see her navigate politics, crisis and fix problems. I still really like Bess. But I don't want to watch the Henry McCord show.

I think we still do and I think the "problem" is that Bess is in a pattern. For the most part, she is the procedural, every episode follows the pattern, like a crime show in which a crime gets solved every episode, Bess solves a crisis every episode. There's a little serialized part in her job - Iran in the first season, Craig Sterling/Russia and the hacking in the second season, now the election. But for the most part, it's a pattern.

Henry, however, has the serialized part. His stories so far have carried through and didn't get resolved in one episode. There is no pattern to it and his story isn't as predictable. They have more liberties with him because he can be at home, he can be at college, he can be at the WH, at the State Department, in a foreign country. Bess can only deal with foreign issues. She is more powerful but at the same time, she is not as flexible as a character. In addition to that, Henry "invaded" Bess' space. He started showing up in the WH, then the Situation Room next to the President. He does not have the same standing as she has but the imagery suggests something different because he is now where only Bess was in S1.

So, while Bess is still more powerful than he is, I think we perceive Henry as more dominant because the images put him everywhere where only Bess was before. They sort of took away her "privilege" and I think that to us viewers, that puts them on equal footing. Because we are shown that they do the same thing - advise the President. Even if it's in very different capacities, I don't think that is what we are seeing/are being shown. That he has the unpredictable story and is the more flexible character, I think tips the scale in his "favor" as it gives him the more interesting character/makes his story the more interesting story even if he's not.

 (That he's always right is just obnoxious, in my opinion. I have no idea why they did that as there's no reason to that but maybe they think that they don't want to create drama around that. I think it just makes him the male equivalent of a Mary Sue character)

[Gladrags]

7 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Boy was that a stupid resolution to the stalking story. When they first caught the guy I knew that he wasn't the actual end game of the stalking and I was dreading it dragging out for another few episodes, but the reveal that the billionaire was the driving force behind it all? Just stupid. He got his trusted staffer to hack them and have someone write graffiti in Bess's office? Really?

Agreed. Especially the graffiti was more lame than a high school prank. That wouldn't make me quit my job; it would make me dissolve into endless paroxysms of laughter. 

Quote

I may have to give up this show just because I'm so tired of he-man, macho Henry. I miss the religious ethics professor of the first season who was a much more interesting guy. This version is just boring and irritating.

I liked him much better as the ethics check guy, the stabilizing influence in Bess' chaotic micro-world, the guy who preferred to stay against the wall. Henry as superhero isn't working for me. 

[MaryHedwig]

Blake has to come in early if Bess does?  Bess really calls him at 4:00am and tells him to shower and shave?  How much does that guy get paid?

On the other hand, it seems like Blake loves what he does and is devoted to Bess.

Regarding Russell's concern that he does not have a Plan B if the President loses. Is that really a thing? Wouldn't he go to work for some think tank, get big bucks for speeches, or become an adjunct professor at a prestigious university?  Anyway, isn't he old enough to retired comfortably and haunt golf courses? Isn't his wife a cardiologist who has probably always been the primary bread winner?

Where was Jared. Did Stevie leave him on the bus?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, MaryHedwig said:

Blake has to come in early if Bess does?  Bess really calls him at 4:00am and tells him to shower and shave?  How much does that guy get paid?...

My daughter works in state government and earns vacation time when she has to work until 10pm or whatever. Maybe the federal is similar.

 

1 hour ago, MaryHedwig said:

...Where was Jared. Did Stevie leave him on the bus?

Heh. Quite possibly.

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

How much does that guy get paid?

I did a quick search of State Department jobs, and the salaries listed (I have no idea what his job title is) run from $90,000 to $141,000.  I would guess that he is in the Executive Salary Series, rather than the GS series, which would mean that he is salaried, rather than wage, and subject to "other duties as assigned". 

[Skycatcher]

20 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

 I'm so tired of he-man, macho Henry. I miss the religious ethics professor of the first season who was a much more interesting guy. This version is just boring and irritating.

More and more it seems like Bess is getting sidelined so that Henry can have his action plots. Which is not why I initially started watching.

Amen!

What happened with Stevie and Jareth?  At the end of last week the two were on a bus looking very unhappy.  Did that lead anywhere.  Why were they on the bus and where were they going?

[Clover]

Agree with most of the above.  Need more Elizabeth, and less he-man, macho Henry.  Preferred him as a "voice of reason".  Just a continuity comment:  Elizabeth's hair before the State dinner (when taking down the big donor) and at the State dinner (dancing with Henry) were very different.  Both my sister and I commented on how awful her hair was when initially seen (looking like she just rolled out of bed; other than the dress).

[VinceW]

On 11/7/2016 at 7:03 PM, Gladrags said:

Agreed. Especially the graffiti was more lame than a high school prank. That wouldn't make me quit my job; it would make me dissolve into endless paroxysms of laughter. 

I liked him much better as the ethics check guy, the stabilizing influence in Bess' chaotic micro-world, the guy who preferred to stay against the wall. Henry as superhero isn't working for me. 

The stalker resolution was disappointing because the motive behind it was really weak given what other methods the billionaire Burton could use to achieve the same results without putting himself in such legal jeopardy.  I was expecting that perhaps Craig Sterling had some part in it since he was sabotaged by Elizabeth and Russell in such a way that his career was ruined.

The Stevie/Jareth story seems to be in limbo because it presents that the proposal in the S2 finale was just a cliffhanger put in for drama.  It appears that the writers don't really know where to go with the story.

It was strange to see Henry in the room with Dalton and the military command while watching the assault on the terrorist hideout without Elizabeth present. That was a first for the series even though Jose was there as well.  The religious artifact story is a good fit for Henry, but it appears that its importance as a funding source for HS is being exaggerated for whatever reason.. The team effort concept using Henry with Murphy station worked well, but not so much as yet with just Jose unless Cecile becomes a bigger part of the story.

Edited November 9, 2016 by VinceW

[CheshireCat]

4 hours ago, VinceW said:

The stalker resolution was disappointing because the motive behind it was really weak given what other methods the billionaire Burton could use to achieve the same results without putting himself in such legal jeopardy.  I was expecting that perhaps Craig Sterling had some part in it since he was sabotaged by Elizabeth and Russell in such a way that his career was ruined.

The thought crossed my mind as well but, to be fair to Sterling, as much as I disliked the character, he did seem to be above that. So, I'm not sure if I had liked had they gone that route though it might have been interesting. I definitely would have preferred a different outcome but it could have been worse, too, I guess.

[sinkwriter]

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More and more it seems like Bess is getting sidelined so that Henry can have his action plots.

And it always seems that Henry's stuff is magically aligned with whatever Elizabeth is working on, so his intel often helps "save the day." How convenient.

At one point I found myself a little suspicious of the woman helping with the computer hack stuff. I don't know why; I think it was the way she said a couple of things to Henry and Elizabeth that made me say, hmm, I don't trust you entirely. So I'm glad it wasn't her.

[VinceW]

17 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

And it always seems that Henry's stuff is magically aligned with whatever Elizabeth is working on, so his intel often helps "save the day." How convenient.

At one point I found myself a little suspicious of the woman helping with the computer hack stuff. I don't know why; I think it was the way she said a couple of things to Henry and Elizabeth that made me say, hmm, I don't trust you entirely. So I'm glad it wasn't her.

Henry working in the DIA allows that the couple can readily share work information especially classified data at home and that sharing avoids keeping secrets from each other which Elizabeth acknowledged in S1 was not healthy for the marriage. The couple therapy exercise was part of solving that problem.  I don't see his work in intelligence by itself a bad thing or somehow makes him a superhero. The recent highlighted terror threats have a religious overtone which gives Henry access to a lot of intelligence which in turn has helped Elizabeth solve related entanglements with foreign countries.

Edited November 9, 2016 by VinceW

[andromeda331]

Yes, it does allow them to share classified data at home and yes that's healthy for their marriage. Except Henry didn't see it as a problem when he was the one keeping classified secrets. He only saw it as a problem when Elizabeth was.  

[VinceW]

On 11/9/2016 at 4:29 PM, andromeda331 said:

Yes, it does allow them to share classified data at home and yes that's healthy for their marriage. Except Henry didn't see it as a problem when he was the one keeping classified secrets. He only saw it as a problem when Elizabeth was.  

He kept secrets under orders from the NSA, DIA and in some cases Dalton.  I don't recall any episode during which Henry (he-man) was happy keeping things from her. He was recruited to teach at the War College. He did not seek that job or the covert ops intelligence work. President Dalton recruited him to work on Murphy station and Elizabeth supports his intelligence work.

Edited November 11, 2016 by VinceW

[hiccup]

On 11/7/2016 at 11:52 AM, Pop Tart said:

I miss the religious ethics professor of the first season who was a much more interesting guy. This version is just boring and irritating.

More and more it seems like Bess is getting sidelined so that Henry can have his action plots. Which is not why I initially started watching.

This!  I'm new to the show....I watched seasons 1 & 2 on Netflix the past couple of weeks, and just signed up for the free week trial of CBS All Access, just to get caught up on season 3.  Anyway, I love this show but I totally agree with what you said about Henry.  He was so much more interesting while being a professor (and I don't even like religion).  I won't be giving up the show any time soon, but his plots are bothersome to me.  But speaking of his new job, where is Jane Fellows?  Has she been mentioned at all in this season?

Sidenote:  Love Blake and his verbal and non-verbal snark!

[CheshireCat]

8 minutes ago, hiccup said:

 But speaking of his new job, where is Jane Fellows?  Has she been mentioned at all in this season?

Well, she was Henry's handler at DIA originally, so I would assume that she has been reassigned/went back to her "old" job?

[hiccup]

1 minute ago, CheshireCat said:

Well, she was Henry's handler at DIA originally, so I would assume that she has been reassigned/went back to her "old" job?

That must be it.  It was confusing though, because Jose Campos mentioned to Henry (in the 1st episode of this season) that they were getting the old team back together, so I just assumed she would have been included in that.  

Oh well, she wasn't all that important to me....lol...I just hate it when characters are dropped with no explanation.

[CheshireCat]

10 hours ago, hiccup said:

That must be it.  It was confusing though, because Jose Campos mentioned to Henry (in the 1st episode of this season) that they were getting the old team back together, so I just assumed she would have been included in that.  

Oh well, she wasn't all that important to me....lol...I just hate it when characters are dropped with no explanation.

Agreed on the last part. And maybe they did explain and had to cut the scene for time. One of the actors for Chicago PD once said that they lose around 10 minutes on each episode. You can fit a lot of scenes into 10 minutes!

Anyway, I think sometimes we just have to come up with our own explanations and, fortunately, in Fellows' case it's fairly easy. (Though it doesn't make sense to say that they'd get the old team back together and then not do it especially since the team consisted of only three. But maybe something more urgent came up for Fellows.)

[VinceW]

15 hours ago, hiccup said:

That must be it.  It was confusing though, because Jose Campos mentioned to Henry (in the 1st episode of this season) that they were getting the old team back together, so I just assumed she would have been included in that.  

Oh well, she wasn't all that important to me....lol...I just hate it when characters are dropped with no explanation.

Jill Hennessy (Jane Fellows) has a recurring role in a new Fox drama series 'Shots Fired'. She plays an affluent mother of a teenage son involved in a police shooting. The new ten-part drama series examines the dangerous aftermath of racially charged shootings in a small NC town. The upcoming 2017 series started filming last summer.

As far as her role on the Murphy Station team, her hawkish character gave credibility to the terrorist tracking story line while at the same time supporting Henry's role as an intelligence agent. IMO.

Edited January 8, 2017 by VinceW

[CheshireCat]

On ‎07‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 7:03 PM, Gladrags said:

Agreed. Especially the graffiti was more lame than a high school prank. That wouldn't make me quit my job; it would make me dissolve into endless paroxysms of laughter. 

 

I'm not sure you'd see it that way once you've been stalked.

I live in an apartment building and a couple of years ago, there were three break-ins within six months. Two into shops directly across the street, one into the shop which is in the building I live in. The first two, I was okay. I wasn't entirely comfortable coming home alone after 10 p.m. but that went away pretty quickly. But the third one had a more lasting effect. The burglars climbed over the fence and went into the store from the courtyard of the building I live in. As a night owl, I tend to head down to take out the trash at odd hours, I stopped doing that after 10 p.m. after that break-in and I didn't do it for a while. And even though it's been 1 1/2 years now, I still listen for any noises when I open the door to the courtyard at night. Not sure what good it would do, but it's become a habit.

So, I totally believe that when you have been stalked for weeks graffiti has the power to give you the creeps. Hacking a computer is okay, it can happen to everyone. Taking photos and stuffing them in a backpack is a lot more personal. Hacking your highly secured home, even more personal and finally, vandalising the office with restricted access... Very personal. It's not about the actions itself, it's about the psychology.

That said, while I would have loved the story of the stalker to be a bit more climatic, at least, they introduced Burton at the beginning of the season and he didn't just come out of thin air in this episode. It would have been cool though if it had turned out to be either of Conrad's acquaintances who they've used in S1: either the guy with India who probably still holds a grudge against Bess - with Bess steering Conrad into the drastic change in foreign policy and "forcing" him to run an Independent, he'd have had even more of a motive - or the guy with the Greek statues. As a former Sec of Treasury, he would have easily had the resources, too. But as I said, at least, he didn't just drop from the sky in this episode.

I have to admit, I thought that the friend Burton introduced Bess to was involved, especially when the janitor mentioned that he had to download a chat app.

Speaking of the janitor - I can live with the fact that the FBI may not be that big on asset turning and that Bess, as a former CIA operative, probably thinks about turning someone into an asset a lot quicker than an FBI agent. But Henry? Really? The guy's been with NSA/DIA for how long? And without any professional training? Explaining it to the FBI agent was Bess' job/line, not his.

And I don't like Henry in the Oval Office with Senior staff/officials. I can live with him and José and with him working in the Pentagon. But putting him into the situation room and strategy meetings with the President just takes it a step too far for me and too far into the direction of "We can't let the woman have it all to herself, the guy also needs to do what the woman does".

I loved Russell and Nadine in this episode, Russell in total campaign mode and Nadine, I would think, protective of her Secretary (reminding Russell of what would be unethical) since she's Chief of Staff of Bess and that is her job. I also loved the way Nadine said "not yet" at the end when the staff was asking about rescuing Jay. Awesome!

I also loved Russell totally losing it with Bess and I loved when he told her that she was brilliant. Even though he was yelling he finally openly acknowledged that she's good. (He'd probably deny it if anyone ever asked but hey, he said it ;-)) Although, I wanted Bess to tell him not to snap at Blake.

And I so want to know if Madeleine Albright really told Leoni about that negotiating tactic the French foreign minister used.

One thing I was totally confused about - so, Hall has said that the show's set in the future, after Obama, so that would make this 2020. But French elections happen ever five years, so how can the French have had a new President? I know that I probably shouldn't bother but this totally threw me off since the French wouldn't vote for another two years.

And a big thumbs up to all of the references to S1!

ETA: That was actually AG #3! One in each season so far.

Edited May 6, 2017 by CheshireCat

[CheshireCat]

On ‎07‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 3:29 AM, shapeshifter said:

 

I liked Bess's dress at the State dinner/dance.

I'm pretty sure that's the same dress Bess wore in the S2 premiere, at the end, only this time it had some... embellishment. (Which I wasn't a fan of at all; I thought it looked odd and way too colorful). And it also looks a lot like the dress that Tea Leoni wore to the 2015 White House Correspondents Dinner.

[CheshireCat]

So Bess' father told her that the key in Mount Vernon was to the Bastille? We recently had visitors and did a tour of Mount Vernon and the guides actually explain what the key was for and why Washington had it. I guess, Bess wasn't listening? ;-)