S23.E11: Week 8

[superdeluxe]

Well, I'm barely watching this season, but I do catch a couple of dances and I really don't get the hype over the race car driver, either.  When I see his dances, I usually roll my eyes and say, "this is the guy they are going out of their way to put over and people are losing their minds over him so much, going as far as to defend him like he's family?  Why?"  People have fallen in love with him.  Why?  After his little shimmy shake or whatever the hell that was he did at the beginning of his jitterbug, I quickly changed the channel because I couldn't take it seriously after that.  I was actually embarrassed and once again questioned why he's loved.  I don't get it.  I probably never will get it.

Now, the reason why he's pimped and propped by the judges and producers is probably because of Sharna.  She's finally going to get that win she's been whining about.  She'll get that win and feel validated and they'll move onto the next person who hasn't won.  Or give someone their second win.

[RemoteControl88]

2 hours ago, Mondayeve said:

For me one one of the wins that I was completely shocked by was Shawn over Gilles.  I remember all the message boards were abuzz that year with women absolutely  swooning over Gilles and I thought man, he is taking this thing.  I obviously had pegged that one wrong.  I remember thinking so much for the handsome male great dancer celeb a lock for the win.  I also felt that way about Mario L., thought sure he had it sewed up. 

If memory serves I believe the year Shawn beat Gilles was one of the closest wins in DWTS (at the time). I swear I remember hearing Tom say that. Gilles fans might have gotten lazy? Anyway she was the last gymnast to win DWTS and by such a narrow margin...so I don't think Laurie has this in the bag.

[iMonrey]

Quote

There is a sexist slant to DWTS, has always been. It's miraculously always the good female dancers who get booted early because they are somehow "not connecting". It's always the women contestants "not connecting". And being a charming male covers a multitude of sins. That's the way it's always been, that's how it's always going to be.

I think it has more to do with "OMG, you're a man? And you can dance???" That's not necessarily "sexist," in the sense that men are preferred over women because they just prefer men. It's just that people are more impressed when someone who comes from a sports background, in particular, dances well. It's unexpected. Women, in general, are just expected to be able to dance. Now, that's sort of sexist by itself. But I don't think the show deliberately props men just because they'd rather have a male winner. I just think, time after time, it's always "OMG it's so amazing you can dance considering you're a football player/race care driver/speed skater" etc. They didn't gush like that over Evan Lysacek or Charlie White, because they expected them to be good. 

But, I think James is good. Not as good as Lysacek or White, but damned good. Better than Nyle last year. Of course, he can hear. But he can really deliver on the elements and in the performance. The first part of his Viennese Waltz that he did with one arm held behind his back was really impressive. He looked like one of the pros to me. There are moments when I can tell he's not a pro but there are other moments when I can't. That's pretty damn good.

[RedFiat]

It was really Really cool to read Maks' blog,

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/01/maksim-chmerkovskiy-ew-blog-val-teary-interview

I thought he nailed everything I thought, Terra and Sasha miminal content, Jana and Gleb not really doing anything noteworthy, Calvin and Lindsays QS not up to a 30.  He had a lot to say about Marilu and Derek and I think points the finger at Derek's teaching style for someone like her.  I think that's probably true to a large degree, I just wish Marilu would say screw it and dance like she danced that VWaltz. 

He really didn't critique Laurie and Val...he's said he never known Val to get weepy and was like "C'mon Bro..." which I thought hmmm uh huh,  from the person who probably knows him best.  This was telling:  We’ve both done things before that are extremely painful… and we didn’t cry. So this was bulls—. [Laughs.]  Thank you Maks.

  He does have family in the competition of course but said this about James: 

James and Sharna/Jenna: 

I think James is the best. Last night was an important night in terms separating our front-runners from the rest of the competition. It was a tough situation with Sharna’s injury, and we hate to see that happen with people we love. Sharna did a great job managing everything, and Jenna did a fantastic job stepping in, but James did the absolute best job out of everybody getting all of this done, the way it was supposed to be, not getting himself in trouble, not missing a step. He, to me, had the best dance of the night. James is really improving week after week, and keeps getting better and better. I felt last night’s dance was amazing, I loved everything about it and I loved his presentation of it. He was smooth, and comfortable. It reminded me of watching DWTS in other countries, when we don’t know who is the pro and who is the celebrity. That’s how it felt with James last night, where maybe you couldn’t tell who was who, he was that good. James just impressed the s— out of me.

So there is no god worship here from Maks Chmerkovskiy, just an acknowledgement and an appreciation  of sincere hard work and effort from a guy who has never danced, overcome a stressful week to produce the best dance of the night.    

Edited November 2, 2016 by RedFiat

[realdancemom]

I think it will come down to the freestyles this year.  At least, it will for me.   I think that's what happened with Kellie Pickler, Donald's win, Corbin vs. Amber, Paige vs. Nyle, and Bindi vs. Nick, etc.  Paige was a front runner all season.  She was a good performer and a really good technician.  I was rooting for her.  However, I wanted more creativity with their freestyle since that's what Mark does.  So I was disappointed.  Peta had an outside choreographer do Nyle's freestyle and it was powerful.  It's one of my favorite freestyles.   Nyle performed it well and he had a good back story that they displayed in the freestyle. 

Derek pulled the dead daddy sympathy card with Bindi's freestyle.  I do think that the judges' comments with Bindi were over the top.  They didn't really mention her technique flaws and they kept expressing how she was an angel.  Nick was inconsistent.  Sharna's freestyle for Nick wasn't that surprising because they already did a similar BSB routine earlier in the season.

I hope the three finalists are Calvin, James, and Laurie.  If there is a fourth, then I hope it's Jana.  I see positives and weaknesses for these four and I haven't felt inclined to vote this season.  Calvin is flashy, has a great smile, and charismatic.  I love his partnership with Lindsey.  He needs to work on his technique.  I enjoyed their quickstep but it wasn't a 10 based on technique and they did break hold in the middle.  He is amazing when it comes to lifts.

James' technique is better than Calvin's.  He has a great partnership with Sharna.  Her choreography has been really good and he does a good job with characters.  However, I want to see him do an intense, hot, virile Latin number.  He can do beautiful, quirky, Broadway like his jitterbug.  I just haven't seen smoldering yet.  I'm not sold on his lifting ability since their jitterbug did have a messed up landing on one of their lifts.  He could have been trying to be extra careful because of Sharna's knee.  James has a great back story that people love. 

Laurie is cute and bubbly.  Val is a good big brother just like he was with Zendaya.  She also has good technique and has enough stage presence that I tend to watch her instead of Val.  Their VW was beautiful.  It wasn't cute and bubbly but she did have a wide eyed innocent look.   I would also like to see different types of performances from her.  I do like that Val isn't using her gymnastics or tricks with their choreography.  I didn't like that Derek kept doing that with Shawn during the All Star season.  In terms of choreography, I do think that Sharna's is more creative than Val so far this season.

After Jana's AT, they have gone down.  It's probably because of her tour schedule.  This week, it also showed that Gleb has never choreographed jazz.  That routine was bad!!

I would have rather had Marilu/Derek go this week and Ryan/Cheryl next week.  I agree with a lot of people that Marilu and Derek are uncomfortable to watch.  Marilu with her comment about being pushed and Derek saying that he's never worked so long with a partner before, those comments were digs.  Then their dances are filled with mistakes.  Marilu does the wrong steps and almost looked like she tripped when they were leaving the chair.  Then they had arm issues so that Derek ends up being hit in the end.  They were even off during the dance-off.  Ryan/Cheryl did look better during the dance off. 

ETA - I do think that Jenna was the perfect person to do the VW with James if it couldn't be Sharna.  I don't see Emma doing as well with the character.  For other celebrities, she would have pulled focus too much but that didn't happen with James.

I also think that Marilu was paired with Derek because she was supposed to be like Jennifer Grey.  She has a lot of dance experience.  She gets in her head too much.  Also because of her age, she does move kind of slow.   During rehearsal, it did look like Derek has given up since he said that she can do what she wants.  He usually drills combos numerous times until the star gets it right.  I will agree that she has a great set of legs.  

Edited November 2, 2016 by realdancemom

[Mondayeve]

Quote

I'm not sold on his lifting ability since their jitterbug did have a messed up landing on one of their lifts

I agree and that may be his Achilles heel in the freestyle.  He is going to have to work hard and eat more chocolate, wheaties, energy bars, etc. whatever.  I am hoping James gets an AT in the semifinals and he can do smoldering and ace the lifts. 

Calvin is effortless with lifts and I am sure Laurie will be great at them so that I say the freestyle is anyone's game.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Mondayeve

[RedFiat]

But lifts are only a small portion of the story.  This is about dance and sure lifts are part of it, but not all.  In fact there have been winning freestyles with little emphasis on lifts.  And then Sharna had a partner that could only do lifts with hardly any dance content.  The winning freestyle is always the unexpected.  

Having said that,  I have no doubt that James can do lifts, he does them while sensing his partner's strength and weaknesses.

Edited November 2, 2016 by RedFiat

[boyznkatz]

Football players can do lifts because they are the only ones as strong as the male dancers. They can't really expect average-sized people to do lifts. It's dangerous, and unfair. Why don't they just go back to ballroom dancing and no one would have to do them. I would rather see good footwork over lifts any day.

[katha]

35 minutes ago, RemoteControl88 said:

If memory serves I believe the year Shawn beat Gilles was one of the closest wins in DWTS (at the time). I swear I remember hearing Tom say that. Gilles fans might have gotten lazy? Anyway she was the last gymnast to win DWTS and by such a narrow margin...so I don't think Laurie has this in the bag.

It's my opinion, and I remember we discussed this when Nastia was eliminated before the finals, that there's the "myth" of the gymnasts versus the actual reality of the gymnasts. Shawn came straight off a gold medal in the Olympics and IMO she wasn't great for a good part of the season. Go watch her dances. She was pleasant, but nowhere close to Gilles. But she improved and towards the end she was good enough for Mark to create memorable dances on her. Then she lucked out with Cheryl blowing the freestyle and Mark producing a killer one.

In the All Star season she was removed from her Olympics win and surrounded by other good dancers. Derek chose to make her stand out by incorporating acrobatics into her dances, but (again IMO) she was still not so great in some of her programs anyway (I thought the rhumba was a total dud, jive, foxtrot, cha cha and waltz were blah). And then she had a lackluster freestyle (holy gigantomania!).

Aly had no musicality whatsoever and wasn't very graceful. She was enthusiastic, though. Also, Mark seemed to be in some sort of burnout during that time as well. She came in fourth and IMO season 16 didn't have so many capable participants, she might have fared worse in a stronger season.

Nastia was graceful but had trouble opening up during performances. Derek decided that he could do all of the things at once and stretched himself too thin. I also thought she had that reserved quality in performances right until the end and also with Sasha. Her voting block was perhaps not so big and somewhat vulnerable and then Noah proposed and that was that with finals.

Laurie is, I think, more graceful than Aly and Shawn, but less so than Nastia. And she is good at one sort of performance, not so much at anything else. She's been gradually getting better at this, though. All of the gymnasts, even Nastia, have this rigid, closed in (I don't know how to properly describe it) quality to their movements, particularly in their upper bodies. That's something they need to work through when they learn to dance. They all aren't used to dancing to music, it's just background noise in floor routines. None of the gymnasts on DWTS strikes me as particularly musical (though Aly was obviously the worst). They aren't used to dancing with partners.

They're some degree of ringer, sure. But they're not Nicole Scherzinger, or Meryl and Charlie, or Corbin style ringers, is what I'm saying, I guess. (-;

[realdancemom]

6 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

Football players can do lifts because they are the only ones as strong as the male dancers. They can't really expect average-sized people to do lifts. It's dangerous, and unfair. Why don't they just go back to ballroom dancing and no one would have to do them. I would rather see good footwork over lifts any day.

I would also rather see good footwork rather than lifts.  My post was just comparing the different couples.  Calvin is one of the best lifters that they've had in the competition.  I can see Lindsey using his strength in their freestyle.  I'm not sure James is but I did write a lot of other nice things about him.

[RedFiat]

I was a big Rumer fan, voted for her, loved that she loved authentic ballroom,  but even I know that the show had it in for Nastia. She was eliminated for no other reason than creating some sort of faux tension between her and Derek, maybe even Derek had a problem with the producers as I recall he was bi-coastal and had to miss a week.  Maybe all of that didn't sit well with the show and they made sure she was toast. But she was a beautiful dancer, she did a lot of things gorgeously, but Rumer had the bullying story that everyone could relate to, she had  the A -list family who brought A list celebs to the show each week, and she had the press machine that could keep her on the cover of US and take her to Chicago on Broadway.  Nastia had an Olympic dream.  It is wonderful, but it has been done before.  Rumer was the shiny new contestant who brought a lot to the show itself.  Of course she was Val's best partner and she won but it might have been a more interesting  horserace if Nastia wasn't eliminated so early. 

[sinkwriter]

Quote

I am not feeling her though and especially not feeling her with Val

I don't see that when I watch Val and Laurie. I think they always look they're having a great time with one another. What I think is that the overall routines haven't been particularly interesting or standout enough, but I don't think it's down to a lack of chemistry. I feel their genuine joy with one another and the fun they're having in each dance. I like watching them. I just want them to do something amazing together to really grab me as a viewer.

Otherwise, I'm rooting for James, because I really do think he's got a whole package deal going. He's got charm and fun, great chemistry with Sharna, and they've had some entertaining routines. And I do think he's a talented dancer who deserves the compliments. He's very smooth and does things with his body that a lot of the male contestants on the show seem to have trouble doing. (And all things considered, he could have been like Michael Waltrip. *shudder* So I'm thrilled to death to see James do so well and be so entertaining.) 

Calvin is another favorite of mine, because his smile lights up the whole room. But I do think he's been overscored a few times. He's good, but he hasn't always been as good as the judges have said.

As for Jana... she seems nice, and she definitely has some technical skill. But I'm not comfortable with Gleb, there's something in my gut that just doesn't connect with him or feel much sincerity from him, and I don't like how almost every routine has been over-the-top sexy. It feels very one-note. That's not Jana's fault; that's on Gleb. But for me, I just don't connect with them.

Edited November 2, 2016 by sinkwriter

[realdancemom]

41 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

It was really Really cool to read Maks' blog,

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/01/maksim-chmerkovskiy-ew-blog-val-teary-interview

I thought he nailed everything I thought, Terra and Sasha miminal content, Jana and Gleb not really doing anything noteworthy, Calvin and Lindsays QS not up to a 30.  He had a lot to say about Marilu and Derek and I think points the finger at Derek's teaching style for someone like her.  I think that's probably true to a large degree, I just wish Marilu would say screw it and dance like she danced that VWaltz. 

He really didn't critique Laurie and Val...he's said he never known Val to get weepy and was like "C'mon Bro..." which I thought hmmm uh huh,  from the person who probably knows him best.  This was telling:  We’ve both done things before that are extremely painful… and we didn’t cry. So this was bulls—. [Laughs.]  Thank you Maks.

  He does have family in the competition of course but said this about James: 

James and Sharna/Jenna: 

I think James is the best. Last night was an important night in terms separating our front-runners from the rest of the competition. It was a tough situation with Sharna’s injury, and we hate to see that happen with people we love. Sharna did a great job managing everything, and Jenna did a fantastic job stepping in, but James did the absolute best job out of everybody getting all of this done, the way it was supposed to be, not getting himself in trouble, not missing a step. He, to me, had the best dance of the night. James is really improving week after week, and keeps getting better and better. I felt last night’s dance was amazing, I loved everything about it and I loved his presentation of it. He was smooth, and comfortable. It reminded me of watching DWTS in other countries, when we don’t know who is the pro and who is the celebrity. That’s how it felt with James last night, where maybe you couldn’t tell who was who, he was that good. James just impressed the s— out of me.

So there is no god worship here from Maks Chmerkovskiy, just an acknowledgement and an appreciation  of sincere hard work and effort from a guy who has never danced, overcome a stressful week to produce the best dance of the night.    

I just read the article.  I think Maks is teasing Val for crying on national TV.  I also think there is a difference between crying from physical pain and just being emotional.  Of course, Val and Maks danced through pain.  All dancers do that. 

Val takes the competition more seriously than Maks.  He is the type that starts choreographing early and spends nights doing it.  They mentioned that during Zendaya's season.  If Val has been reading social media, he probably has seen comments where his choreography is lacking.  I can see him putting pressure on himself because he doesn't want to let Laurie down.  He believes she is that talented but could lose if his choreography is lacking.  If you go back to Zendaya vs. Kellie, I do think that Kellie and Derek won because of their freestyle.  He doesn't want the same thing to happen again.  In the article, Maks is telling his brother that he is talented and not to put too much pressure on himself.

[Mondayeve]

Well the press release is out and now we know what are they are doing this week.

Marilu-samba.

Laurie -AT

James - Jazz.

Calvin-waltz.

Terra-charleston.

Jana-waltz.

Team up challenges.

James and Calvin - Paso.

Jana and Laurie - contemporary.

Marilu and Terra - Jazz.

[katha]

7 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

I just read the article.  I think Maks is teasing Val for crying on national TV.  I also think there is a difference between crying from physical pain and just being emotional.  Of course, Val and Maks danced through pain.  All dancers do that. 

Val takes the competition more seriously than Maks.  He is the type that starts choreographing early and spends nights doing it.  They mentioned that during Zendaya's season.  If Val has been reading social media, he probably has seen comments where his choreography is lacking.  I can see him putting pressure on himself because he doesn't want to let Laurie down.  He believes she is that talented but could lose if his choreography is lacking.  If you go back to Zendaya vs. Kellie, I do think that Kellie and Derek won because of their freestyle.  He doesn't want the same thing to happen again.  In the article, Maks is telling his brother that he is talented and not to put too much pressure on himself.

Of course there's also the fact that Maks seems to have forgotten he cried on national TV himself in season 18. (-; Mostly I think it's typical big brother ribbing. It's a good article, though, it's interesting to read his opinions. His read of the Marilu/Derek situation strikes me as insightful, and I appreciate that he admits he's not always been great in the patience department himself and tries to be fair.

Edited November 2, 2016 by katha

[RedFiat]

7 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

I just read the article.  I think Maks is teasing Val for crying on national TV.  I also think there is a difference between crying from physical pain and just being emotional.  Of course, Val and Maks danced through pain.  All dancers do that. 

Val takes the competition more seriously than Maks.  He is the type that starts choreographing early and spends nights doing it.  They mentioned that during Zendaya's season.  If Val has been reading social media, he probably has seen comments where his choreography is lacking.  I can see him putting pressure on himself because he doesn't want to let Laurie down.  He believes she is that talented but could lose if his choreography is lacking.  If you go back to Zendaya vs. Kellie, I do think that Kellie and Derek won because of their freestyle.  He doesn't want the same thing to happen again.  In the article, Maks is telling his brother that he is talented and not to put too much pressure on himself.

No doubt Val takes it seriously. But IMHO crying on TV with no tears was specifically to sell that syrupy sweet sentimental VWaltz.  Since Maks doesn't think his bro is an overly emotional guy anyway, it didn't past the smell test.  

11 minutes ago, Mondayeve said:

Well the press release is out and now we know what are they are doing this week.

Marilu-samba.

Laurie -AT

James - Jazz.

Calvin-waltz.

Terra-charleston.

Jana-waltz.

Team up challenges.

James and Calvin - Paso.

Jana and Laurie - contemporary.

Marilu and Terra - Jazz.

Marilu getting Samba.  Good night.  

[RedFiat]

13 minutes ago, katha said:

Of course there's also the fact that Maks seems to have forgotten he cried on national TV himself in season 18. (-; Mostly I think it's typical big brother ribbing. It's a good article, though, it's interesting to read his opinions. His read of the Marilu/Derek situations strikes me as insightful, and I appreciate that he admits he's not always been great in the patience department himself and tries to be fair.

Ha. Just proves my point. If Maks' cried then he's a bullshit artist just like his little bro. It takes one to know one, and he knows his brother. 

Edited November 2, 2016 by RedFiat

[katha]

11 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

Ha. Just proves my point. If Maks' cried then he's a bullshit artist just like his little bro. It takes one to know one, and he knows his brother. 

No, that also struck me as sincere. It was in the finals and he'd never won before. Sure, it's a stupid ugly glitter discoball, but it's also so many years of the pros' careers that are tied up in this show. And he'd also lost a few times in finals, so was feeling the pressure.

ETA: Val and Maks strike me as very emotional people in general, Maks is more extroverted and perhaps easygoing, Val is more introverted and intense. Val is also very, very invested every season and he's been upset when he felt that he let down a partner numerous times. He's been repeatedly shown as someone who is very hard on himself.

Edited November 2, 2016 by katha

[RedFiat]

I didn't watch that season, but I highly doubt the Chmerkovskiys cry for much, especially not a mirrorball that they share with a celebrity.  The show is "highly" scripted and I'm sure the boys were looking for some acting gigs.  

Edited November 2, 2016 by RedFiat

[realdancemom]

18 minutes ago, katha said:

Of course there's also the fact that Maks seems to have forgotten he cried on national TV himself in season 18. (-; Mostly I think it's typical big brother ribbing. It's a good article, though, it's interesting to read his opinions. His read of the Marilu/Derek situation strikes me as insightful, and I appreciate that he admits he's not always been great in the patience department himself and tries to be fair.

Yes, I did enjoy Maks' article and I agreed with a lot of what he said.  I was also going to comment in my previous post that the dance off showed how much better Laurie and Val's technique was in comparison to Calvin and Lindsey's.  I just forgot to do that since my post was getting long.  I see that Maks wrote that in his blog.

[RemoteControl88]

18 minutes ago, katha said:

Of course there's also the fact that Maks seems to have forgotten he cried on national TV himself in season 18. (-; Mostly I think it's typical big brother ribbing. It's a good article, though, it's interesting to read his opinions. His read of the Marilu/Derek situations strikes me as insightful, and I appreciate that he admits he's not always been great in the patience department himself and tries to be fair.

I recall Derek getting emotional during his season with Bindi, Mark with Sadie, Maks with Meryl. I remember each of those times....they all felt genuine and heartfelt.  I'm not going to examine myself too closely...but I guess I like it when the pro's cry. lol.

[FilmTVGeek80]

14 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

That's not what i'm saying. If the show really wanted this "comeback" arc for her. She would've gotten immunity along with the perfect score to illustrate the "Laurie is back" angle.

But yes, it will always be a battle of the sexes thing. Look from seasons 2-5 that men kept winning over better dancing females to the point where the show HAD to do season 6 with Kristi and a bunch of mediocre male celebs just to get a women to win again. Look at last season. Nyle, while a good dancer, won over superior Paige who, IMO, is one of the best female celebs to ever be on the show, yet she got trumped by a contestant who won because he was a good dancer for being deaf, which is not what Nyle wanted to portray but his deafness was shoved down our throats constantly. His final freestyle which was called "the best dance ever" by Carrie Ann sealed the deal.

It's very, very seldomly that a woman celeb wins without some kind of TPTB manipulation. Look at the times the scores on the final had to be so far in the woman's favor (Brooke, Nicole, Kristi) come to mind of instances where it was made impossible for others point wise to catch up. But look how many times a man overtook a female celeb in the final without being in first place or tied for first with a woman (Helio, Donny, Donald, Nyle).

I think Bindi, Shawn, Rumer, Meryl, and Amber won in the finals without the need to overscore them or underscore others to ensure it.

5

Why did she need to get immunity just for it to seem like a comeback? She got a perfect score and got glowing reviews and won her dance off. 

And I still disagree about this battle of the sexes thing. Just because men and women compete against each other doesn't mean every time a man wins suddenly it's SEXISM. Nyle wins over Paige and it's sexist. But, that's very easily forgetting all of the times women contestants have won over their male competitors. Why would I need to look at Nyle vs. Paige. That wasn't about sexism, but people having definite preferences and reasons for voting for who they vote for, just like it is EVERY SEASON. To say Nyle only won because he was deaf is being very dismissive to the people who voted for him and why. I'm sure that was the reason for a lot of people. Him being such a great dancer while not being able to hear certainly played a part in why I voted for him but it certainly wasn't the whole reason. I thought he was a great dancer, I loved his personality, and I loved his chemistry with Peta. Quite frankly, for all that Paige was technically good (of course she was since she was one of the biggest ringers the show has ever had) I never emotionally connected with any of her dances and to this day can't remember a single one of them. And while she didn't have a bad personality she was just very blah to me in that arena.

Ultimately, this always comes down to the audience. So, yeah, sometimes the best technical dancers won't win, that's what happens when people are given the chance to vote on things like this. It's been this way from the very beginning (when a woman won.) There are many factors that go into why people connect with the people they do. So, yeah, TPTB and the judges can manipulate to their hearts' content but ultimately the audience is who picks the winner.  

[Mondayeve]

Plus there hasn't been a season where there hasn't been outrage over the results starting with season 1 with Kelly winning over John.  Again woman winning over a man.  How did that happen when it is stacked against the women?

I think if Laurie were to have a come back week it will be this week.  With an AT she gets to show a different side, a more mature side her technique and chemistry with Val.   Age appropriate of course and I do believe Val bring that out in her. 

James will have lifts with this jazz and if he nails them I will never doubt him again. 

Calvin has a chance to show grace and finesse in the waltz so could be a great week for him also.

I am worried for Terra and especially Marilu.

[calipiano81]

2 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Ultimately, this always comes down to the audience. So, yeah, sometimes the best technical dancers won't win, that's what happens when people are given the chance to vote on things like this. It's been this way from the very beginning (when a woman won.) There are many factors that go into why people connect with the people they do. So, yeah, TPTB and the judges can manipulate to their hearts' content but ultimately the audience is who picks the winner.  

I agree that a lot of different factors contribute to who ends up being the winner. But I also agree with those who think that, coming into the show, the expectations for female celebs are much higher than the male celebs. The females who won were fortunate enough to be able to meet those expectations. While that may not be sexist, it's certainly an extra hurdle for the women right off the bat before anything else. Even if Laurie did not have the expectations from being an Olympic gymnast, I don't think she would be receiving nearly the adoration James is getting for her level of dancing.

Even looking at our contestants with physical limitations, where expectations are naturally adjusted...overall, I feel that the audience was much more forgiving of Nyle and Noah's shortcomings than they are/were of Terra, Amy, even going all the way back to Marlee Matlin (all 3 of whom, I think, would be excellent dancers with full physical capacity).

Edited November 2, 2016 by calipiano81

[sbluv2dance]

Someone in a previous post asked if anyone liked Jana and Gleb.  I DO!!  I think Gleb is very easy on the eye, and I like Jana - both her personality and dancing.  Yes, they have chemistry and their dancing is sexy, but, you know, so what? - they're both very attractive people, and having chemistry does not necessarily translate to them following through and acting on it.  Which, if they did, is none of our business.  

My other favs are James, Calvin, and Laurie.  I have not voted for Laurie because I don't think she needs them.  I also was surprised by both James and Calvin.  I am not normally drawn to the football players (except I was to Hines).  I agree with a previous poster that we, as viewers and voters, like who we like, and there is not always a reason or explanation.  

I vote each week for my favorites, and not always for whom I thought had the best dance that week.  I always ask myself who I would be bummed about not having around to watch the following week, and that's what drives my votes.

I think Laurie's dancing is amazing, and from the first week thought that they should just give her the mirrorball already, but now maybe not.  In any case, she was good from the beginning, was expected to be good, and I do like to be surprised by someone who I wasn't expecting to like, such as James and Calvin this season, and Jana.  Last season it was Paige.  Although Nyles was definitely easy on the eyes.

[McManda]

1 hour ago, sbluv2dance said:

I think Gleb is very easy on the eye, and I like Jana - both her personality and dancing.  Yes, they have chemistry and their dancing is sexy, but, you know, so what? - they're both very attractive people, and having chemistry does not necessarily translate to them following through and acting on it.  Which, if they did, is none of our business.  

Attraction and chemistry are subjective.

Gleb is objectively handsome and fits into my weakness if tall, dark, and bearded men. That said, I find him kind of smarmy and as  such, not attractive.

I also don't think he has natural chemistry with Jana. I think it's as forced as the sexy routines he's dead set on trying to create with her. I don't think they dislike each other, but I think that Sharna and James have more chemistry, it's just not something that they're trying to push into making their dances sexy. 

I'm still sad the show dropped the ball on pairing Artem and Jana. That's a pairing I think would have benefited everyone involved more, except Gleb. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, calipiano81 said:

I agree that a lot of different factors contribute to who ends up being the winner. But I also agree with those who think that, coming into the show, the expectations for female celebs are much higher than the male celebs. The females who won were fortunate enough to be able to meet those expectations. While that may not be sexist, it's certainly an extra hurdle for the women right off the bat before anything else. Even if Laurie did not have the expectations from being an Olympic gymnast, I don't think she would be receiving nearly the adoration James is getting for her level of dancing.

Even looking at our contestants with physical limitations, where expectations are naturally adjusted...overall, I feel that the audience was much more forgiving of Nyle and Noah's shortcomings than they are/were of Terra, Amy, even going all the way back to Marlee Matlin (all 3 of whom, I think, would be excellent dancers with full physical capacity).

 

It depends on who the celeb is - not necessarily their gender. I think there have been high expectations on male celebs like Evan Lycasek, Mario Lopez, Charlie White, Nick Carter, that guy from High School Musical, etc.

I don't remember Marlee's season that well - or her performances - so I can't speak to that, but I really don't see how Amy and Terra have had it worse than Noah and Nyle, especially if we're talking about how people treated them on the boards. Terra hasn't been treated too unfairly on the forums or on the show. I think Amy and Noah were both equally coddled on the show. I didn't particularly like Amy, and I think there was some dislike for her on the forums but I don't think she got nearly as much hate as Noah did.

[Michel]

9 hours ago, DollEyes said:

As for Jana & Gleb a Little Shop Of Horrors-based routine without Audrey II is a snooze.

I was actually glad they didn't have him there.  That thing freaked me the fuck out when I was kid, and I did not need that traumatic reminder.

[sinkwriter]

I'm glad that they had a fun dance for Little Shop of Horrors, because if they examined that story too much (that Audrey was the victim of an abusive boyfriend), it might be a bit too close to home for Jana, considering what she revealed about her past in a previous week.

Quote

I'm not going to examine myself too closely...but I guess I like it when the pro's cry. lol.

I think the one that moved me the most was Tristan, reacting with emotion while watching his partner Valerie Harper dance during one of their rehearsals. His fondness for her and how moved he was at her positivity and perseverance while dealing with a brain tumor got to me at the very core. It was such a lovely moment between them.

[calipiano81]

3 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

It depends on who the celeb is - not necessarily their gender. I think there have been high expectations on male celebs like Evan Lycasek, Mario Lopez, Charlie White, Nick Carter, that guy from High School Musical, etc.

I don't remember Marlee's season that well - or her performances - so I can't speak to that, but I really don't see how Amy and Terra have had it worse than Noah and Nyle, especially if we're talking about how people treated them on the boards. Terra hasn't been treated too unfairly on the forums or on the show. I think Amy and Noah were both equally coddled on the show. I didn't particularly like Amy, and I think there was some dislike for her on the forums but I don't think she got nearly as much hate as Noah did.

The bias doesn't necessarily have to come in the form of hate or negative opinion. Sometimes it seems like the females need to have twice the dance ability than a charming male in order to get the same amount of enthusiasm, attention, and support from the audience.

As was mentioned previously, probably 90% of the "surprise" early eliminations over the course of this show were those of female celebs who danced well, but apparently not well enough for the audience to care.

Edited November 3, 2016 by calipiano81

[FilmTVGeek80]

9 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

The bias doesn't necessarily have to come in the form of hate or negative opinion. Sometimes it seems like the females need to have twice the dance ability than a charming male in order to get the same amount of enthusiasm, attention, and support from the audience.

As was mentioned previously, probably 90% of the "surprise" early eliminations over the course of this show were those of female celebs who danced well, but apparently not well enough for the audience to care.

 

To prove bias related to gender IMO you'd have to say that most of the audience is deliberately cheering for these particular male celebs over female celebs because they are biased against female celebs in general, which I know in my case isn't it at all. I like James better than Laurie because I like his personality better and I think he's a better performer. Same with Nyle over Paige and some of the other male celebs I liked. It wasn't "he's a guy and she's a girl, so I'm picking him because he's a man." So, a lot of the shock boots have been woman, that doesn't mean the audience rooted against them because they were women. It just means, for whatever reason (usually having to do with personality) people didn't connect with them. I think, generally on this show, what it comes down to for most of the voters is they'll pick whoever's dancing they like plus the personality - that goes for men and then women who have won. I think that's why some of the shock female eliminations happened. For whatever reason people just didn't warn to Sabrina Bryan, so she got "shockingly" eliminated twice. I think the same happened with Brandy (though that was also because of the crazy people voting for Bristol) and Nastia, Elizabeth Berkeley, etc.  And for all the talk about the audience being biased against women, it was stated in this thread earlier there have been more female winners than male.

[Padma]

10 hours ago, RedFiat said:

It was really Really cool to read Maks' blog,

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/01/maksim-chmerkovskiy-ew-blog-val-teary-interview

He really didn't critique Laurie and Val...he's said he never known Val to get weepy and was like "C'mon Bro..." which I thought hmmm uh huh,  from the person who probably knows him best.  This was telling:  We’ve both done things before that are extremely painful… and we didn’t cry. So this was bulls—. [Laughs.]  Thank you Maks.

 

I appreciated his observations about the rest, but wow do I hate this "macho bs" that Maks specializes in!  I'll bet Val has a lot of reactions to things that Maks has no clue about because Val learned long ago that his brother doesn't think that stuff is manly.

Then again, I loved their dance, including the tender bit where they stopped dancing, dropped the hat and then--with gallantry--invited her to continue. It was lovely and captured the innocence of childhood--something Laurie herself seems to embody. I thought Val was genuinely moved by it all and kind of wanted to sneer at Erin for trying to snark on him for crying. If dancers--men interpreting music creatively--aren't allowed to show some sensitivity and emotion, then who can?

Maybe Maks' comment makes me understand why, although I liked him and his dancing just fine (most of the time), I felt he had an arrogance he brother didn't show and the difference makes Val a lot more attractive.

[RedFiat]

1 hour ago, sinkwriter said:

I'm glad that they had a fun dance for Little Shop of Horrors, because if they examined that story too much (that Audrey was the victim of an abusive boyfriend), it might be a bit too close to home for Jana, considering what she revealed about her past in a previous week.

I think the one that moved me the most was Tristan, reacting with emotion while watching his partner Valerie Harper dance during one of their rehearsals. His fondness for her and how moved he was at her positivity and perseverance while dealing with a brain tumor got to me at the very core. It was such a lovely moment between them.

The ONLY time I ever thought any dude was worth his salt crying  was when  contestant Hines Ward got all weepy once he got through a dance with Kym Johnson because he almost killed her when his full body weight landed on her neck in rehearsal.  EVERYTHING  else, especially the video packages are designed to get the audience to vote a certain way.  I hate the manipulation. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by RedFiat

[Zuleikha]

 They can't really expect average-sized people to do lifts. It's dangerous, and unfair.

Lifts aren't about raw strength. They're about timing and both partners knowing their role. It's bad technique and dangerous for the lifter to use raw muscle to lift. The liftee should always be holding their own body (think of lifting a flat plank versus lifting a mushy sack) and typically initiating the movement so that there's momentum. Sharna obviously knows how to be lifted, so there should be good lifts that she and James can do. 

To prove bias related to gender IMO you'd have to say that most of the audience is deliberately cheering for these particular male celebs over female celebs because they are biased against female celebs in general,

That's not how bias has to work. It's often unconscious and based on expectations that people don't even realize they have. 

[boyznkatz]

15 hours ago, Mondayeve said:

Plus there hasn't been a season where there hasn't been outrage over the results starting with season 1 with Kelly winning over John.  Again woman winning over a man.  How did that happen when it is stacked against the women?

 

I don't think TPTB is unfair to women, but the odds are definitely stacked against beautiful women on this particular show. It's pretty obvious that a good chunk of viewers (and the female judges) don't take to beautiful women. I still remember all the hate against Janel Parish and Nastia. They were beautiful dancers and seemed nice enough, but viewers didn't "connect" with them. In fact, gorgeous women rarely get far on this show unless they are in a league by themselves (Nicole S, Paige from last season). I do think there was a lot of backlash against Kelly M. because she was too sexy for the fans. Most of the female winners have been homely (Meryl, Rumer, Amber, Bindi) and they were certainly pimped to high heaven because it was acceptable to the audience. If someone like Paige got the ridiculous tongue baths that James gets, she wouldn't have lasted as long as she did IMO.

Gorgeous men on the other hand certainly get a pass. The only way Lochte lasted as long as he did was because the viewers drooled over him. TPTB of course knew that and gave him ridiculously inflated scores to keep him around as long as they could. 

[RedFiat]

I think the show just plays an angle and people drink it up like saps. Beautiful women can win this show, Nicole S being the prime example,  but the machinations around pulling out a narrative for who they want to win is really based on fan vote and advertising.  So for example,  Kelly Monaco won her first season because of her fanbase watched her ABC soap in droves,  and Seinfeld's Peterman was NBC who were less inclined to watch a reality dance show.   Back when Stacy Kiebler was on the show she was roundly put down for her dance experience up against people like Jerry Rice, a beloved footballer, and football is bread and butter for ABC's ESPN. You see Jerry Rice make an appearance every year on the show, because Football. That narrative of sports guys winning  carried through up to season 6 when Mark got his ringer Kristie Yamaguchi, but the crowd who watches DWTS also loves figure skating and the show saw an opportunity to look at future tv projects that combines figure skating and dance . People didn't care about the old narrative of "dance experience" anymore. One of the worst examples of ABC's manipulations was when Donny Osmond won. He actually changed the rules and had ballroom dance training from a private coach for his Vegas show.   That was a disgusting display of slicing and dicing the competition into these horrible characters that you never want to ever be with, because Osmond was such a pathetically poor dancer you had to make the others into bitches, except for Kelly Osbourne, an actual wretched woman who got a personality make-over to become palatable on DWTS because she brought her celebrity parents each week to swoon and seize more reality show opportunities.  She's gone back of course to being one of the worst people ever on television.  

Take out all the narratives, just watch the dancing. Someone who was an asshole before the show, will be an asshole after the show. This show does not change people. You are watching a show in a bubble if you think otherwise. I personally think a person with dance background is more entertaining to watch, but not always.  If there's a reason to watch for me, it is those celebrities who actually learn something, become students, enjoy the process,  and just entertain me with dance.  All the manipulations of this show in the video packages do a disservice to dance. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by RedFiat

[thefog]

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

I don't think TPTB is unfair to women, but the odds are definitely stacked against beautiful women on this particular show. It's pretty obvious that a good chunk of viewers (and the female judges) don't take to beautiful women. I still remember all the hate against Janel Parish and Nastia. They were beautiful dancers and seemed nice enough, but viewers didn't "connect" with them. In fact, gorgeous women rarely get far on this show unless they are in a league by themselves (Nicole S, Paige from last season). I do think there was a lot of backlash against Kelly M. because she was too sexy for the fans. Most of the female winners have been homely (Meryl, Rumer, Amber, Bindi) and they were certainly pimped to high heaven because it was acceptable to the audience. If someone like Paige got the ridiculous tongue baths that James gets, she wouldn't have lasted as long as she did IMO.

Gorgeous men on the other hand certainly get a pass. The only way Lochte lasted as long as he did was because the viewers drooled over him. TPTB of course knew that and gave him ridiculously inflated scores to keep him around as long as they could. 

With the possible exception of Nyle, none of the male winners were known for their physical appearance.  Kelly M backlash had more to do with her beating a stronger competitor, John O'Hurley.  With regards to Ryan Lochte, it had more to do with his enthusiasm and positive attitude.  Also, it's not like he out lasted a stronger female contender. 

Nicole S. is considered one of the most attractive winners, male or female.  And it was a former Bachelorette and cheer leader that won the All-Stars season.  

Edited November 3, 2016 by escape

[RedFiat]

16 hours ago, sbluv2dance said:

Someone in a previous post asked if anyone liked Jana and Gleb.  I DO!!  I think Gleb is very easy on the eye, and I like Jana - both her personality and dancing.  Yes, they have chemistry and their dancing is sexy, but, you know, so what? - they're both very attractive people, and having chemistry does not necessarily translate to them following through and acting on it.  Which, if they did, is none of our business.  

I think Jana has a lot of potential but has been hampered by a couple of things.  Too much travel which is impacting on her polish, and a pro who really doesn't have the vision to showcase her properly.  I totally agreed with Julianne, why bring back Jive into a Jazz routine, when she could have done much better with a proper jazz routine.  But I totally fell in love with her Beatles Foxtrot, that's where I saw the potential.  Should she be top 4, probably, but I hope she makes a stronger impact - and propless.  

[boyznkatz]

Julianne and Carrie Ann are obviously jealous of women who are prettier than they are. If James or Calvin (whom they are hung up on) did jive in their routine, they wouldn't bat an eyelash. Their version of "jazz" has always been a mish mash of crap with no rules, so why penalize one person but not another.

[RedFiat]

It was too much Jive though.  The show knew this when giving Little Shop of Horrors to a guy who only knows ballroom that he was going to Jive his way through. That didn't surprise me.  That's not choreographing a Jazz routine.   What would have been surprising would have been a Jazz routine that was worthy of praise, and steer away from the temptation to fill it with ballroom.  

Edited November 3, 2016 by RedFiat

[vibeology]

46 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

Take out all the narratives, just watch the dancing. Someone who was an asshole before the show, will be an asshole after the show. This show does not change people. You are watching a show in a bubble if you think otherwise. I personally think a person with dance background is more entertaining to watch, but not always.  If there's a reason to watch for me, it is those celebrities who actually learn something, become students, enjoy the process,  and just entertain me with dance.  All the manipulations of this show in the video packages do a disservice to dance. 

I disagree with that, but only in part. I think 90% of the time this is true, but I do believe that there have been people on this show who have been changed by the experience. I think on occasion the fact that someone discovers their capability does open them up and cause them some personal growth. Look, wretched Kate Gosselin was never going to be something other than what she was but someone like Sadie or Amy Purdy or Jack Osbourne who already are nice enough people can gain confidence or draw strength from their time on this show. I don't think doing this show can 180 someone's personality, but I think it can gently nudge someone forward a step or two and help them if they take the right things out of the experience. But yeah, assholes are going to stay assholes. The growth comes from people who are already open to the idea of growing and just need a catalyst.

So I do think that someone like Laurie or James or Calvin might change a bit (and let me stress the "a bit" part pretty hard) from this experience but they were starting off with what seemed to be a pretty solid base. I can't imagine experiencing something like this show which is so intense for a couple of months and it not changing you a little if you're not always in your head and unwilling to learn.

28 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

Julianne and Carrie Ann are obviously jealous of women who are prettier than they are. If James or Calvin (whom they are hung up on) did jive in their routine, they wouldn't bat an eyelash. Their version of "jazz" has always been a mish mash of crap with no rules, so why penalize one person but not another.

I hate the narrative that women who criticize other women do it from a place of jealousy. Julianne and Carrie Ann are judges. It is their job to offer their professional opinions about the dances they see. Nothing they said suggested they don't like Jana or are jealous of her. Their focus was on the choreography and how that was executed. From what I understood from their comments, the issue wasn't that Gleb put some jive into the jazz number but that he did that after they've been told by the judges that jive isn't a strong dance for Jana. And it wasn't. She wasn't scored well (they got two 6s that night) and I didn't see much improvement in the jive steps she did in her jazz dance.

Frankly I hated that Jazz number (Little Shop has always been my favourite musical so I am hyper sensitive about it) because it looked like a dance from a kid's recital. It just had this childish feel to it and it was sloppy. And I can tell you I'm not saying that as someone jealous of Jana's looks, but as someone who wanted a dance to that song to be good and felt disappointed.

[RedFiat]

20 minutes ago, vibeology said:

I don't think doing this show can 180 someone's personality, but I think it can gently nudge someone forward a step or two and help them if they take the right things out of the experience. But yeah, assholes are going to stay assholes. The growth comes from people who are already open to the idea of growing and just need a catalyst.

 As far as I'm concerned the only thing the show does is open the audience up for the celebrity, which in turn means more revenue. Who they are as people is simply suspended by the intensive nature of the show. 

So Cheryl got Rob Kardashian to move his butt a bit, the result?  He's regressed further.  Andy Dick said the show changed him enormously, and what happened?  He came to the show drunk the following season, made an ass of himself in the audience, pissed himself and was thrown out.  Tom Delay went to jail. Lawrence Taylor is registered as sex offender after he was on the show.   My point is if you are a decent person to begin with, you'll come out of the show having learned a new skill and probably get some new opportunities.  If you go into this show thinking you'll be rehabilitated by the audience who knows you're an ass to begin with, ain't gonna happen. The sad thing is the audience believes the make-believe environment that this show creates. People love Ryan Lochte now?  Give it a few months. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by RedFiat

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

I hate the narrative that women who criticize other women do it from a place of jealousy. Julianne and Carrie Ann are judges. It is their job to offer their professional opinions about the dances they see.

I just find it a little juvenile to be honest. It's similar to when someone criticizes a female celebrity at times, no matter how valid the criticism is, it's clearly because that person is jealous. And let's not even get into the latest craze of "shaming", i.e. someone is always been fat-shamed, slut-shamed, body-shamed, etc. 

Quote

Nothing they said suggested they don't like Jana or are jealous of her. Their focus was on the choreography and how that was executed. From what I understood from their comments, the issue wasn't that Gleb put some jive into the jazz number but that he did that after they've been told by the judges that jive isn't a strong dance for Jana. And it wasn't.

And how convenient that in the bid to label them as petty, jealous mean girls, we ignore their over the top praising of Jana and Gleb's Argentine Tango only a few weeks ago. But one of her dances gets criticized and clearly it's because Julianne and Carrie Ann are homely, bitter mean girls jealous of the obviously hotter Jana. Okay then. 

This reminds of me of some seasons ago when Witney was paired up with the Bachelor guy. Julianne criticized their Cha Cha by pointing out that Witney made the choreography too complicated and she should have simplified it, knowing Chris' limitations. I saw a bunch of comments after the episode that Julianne was clearly jealous and threatened by younger Witney who was now what she used to be on the show. The next day on Afterbuzz, Mark was a guest and basically said exactly what Julianne did when they brought up Chris and Witney's dance. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[realdancemom]

29 minutes ago, vibeology said:

I hate the narrative that women who criticize other women do it from a place of jealousy. Julianne and Carrie Ann are judges. It is their job to offer their professional opinions about the dances they see. Nothing they said suggested they don't like Jana or are jealous of her. Their focus was on the choreography and how that was executed. From what I understood from their comments, the issue wasn't that Gleb put some jive into the jazz number but that he did that after they've been told by the judges that jive isn't a strong dance for Jana. And it wasn't. She wasn't scored well (they got two 6s that night) and I didn't see much improvement in the jive steps she did in her jazz dance.

Frankly I hated that Jazz number (Little Shop has always been my favourite musical so I am hyper sensitive about it) because it looked like a dance from a kid's recital. It just had this childish feel to it and it was sloppy. And I can tell you I'm not saying that as someone jealous of Jana's looks, but as someone who wanted a dance to that song to be good and felt disappointed.

I was going to say the exact same thing.  Julianne's comment was that she was surprised that Gleb put so much jive in the dance because their jive was not one of their better dances.  It wasn't about jealousy because they got a perfect score for their AT.

I also agree that I was disappointed in their jazz.  They could have received a perfect score because jazz has less rules than ballroom.  That's why a lot of us speculated that she would receive immunity because she probably wasn't getting enough votes.  But what Gleb choreographed did look like a dance from a children's recital. 

[RedFiat]

14 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I saw a bunch of comments after the episode that Julianne was clearly jealous and threatened by younger Witney who was now what she used to be on the show. The next day on Afterbuzz, Mark was a guest and basically said exactly what Julianne did when they brought up Chris and Witney's dance. 

Yeah, it's just easier for the uninformed to grab on to the mean girl idea instead of really understanding dance and how people learn. 

[OnceSane]

The past season comparisons are way off-topic, please stick to what happened in the episode.  If you want to talk about past seasons and/or possible shenanigans, take it to General Gabbery or Dancing On The Grassy Knoll threads.  Thanks.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Julianne and Carrie Ann are obviously jealous of women who are prettier than they are. If James or Calvin (whom they are hung up on) did jive in their routine, they wouldn't bat an eyelash. Their version of "jazz" has always been a mish mash of crap with no rules, so why penalize one person but not another.

Julianne and Carrie Ann are talking out of their asses about 75% of the time so I won't defend them in general. But they were more critical of Terra than they were of Jana, and I'm reasonably certain neither is jealous of Terra. I think this has more to do with the fact that the judges are starting to prepare certain dancers for eventual elimination and doling out "reasons" other than the fact that they aren't getting the votes to make the top 3.

[RedFiat]

For me, it depends upon perspective. You could make a sound argument for either Jana or Terra to stay or go based on dance principles.  For example,  Terra danced one helluva Samba, but I really haven't found a lot of other dances that were so content rich to justify her going further. The contemporary was somewhat inspirational and yet the execution was lacking in that she doesn't have the physical capacity to do the required movement. The Paso was the same problem in that she is too little to make dramatic shaping.  Her strength is her commitment, regardless of how small the movement, she makes you feel something.  Whereas Jana and Gleb looked like they were rough on their Ballroom Tango, chalk it  up to injury,  started to make progress with their first Foxtrot, had some nice moments on the contemporary,  then went hyper-sexual with the AT to move out of the middle, some found it titillating, others found it annoying , but the team really hasn't demanded our attention since. The difference I think is that while I enjoy what Sasha has done far more than Gleb, and commend him for the absolutely crazy task of modifying dancing for Terra,  Jana has more capacity to improve because she does have the body type more suited for ballroom.  So the question is do you reward someone for taking their physical capacity to the limit?  Or do you reward what seems to be a lack of preparation to this point with the view that it has room to grow? 

Edited November 3, 2016 by RedFiat

[gimmeegimmeegim]

Max has the memory of a t supporter, Gleb is a smarmy smarm, go C, T and L, go home Derek and p. Yay Mark! But why couldn't you do a song sans D????? Let's get this show on the road.