S03.E04: The New Rogues

[Potanical Pardon]

FWIW, Earth-19 is the Steampunk DC Universe, not that this show follows the Earth numbers correctly at all anyways. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Flash Says Out With The Old, In With The New

Someone's getting replaced with a more hipster-y model.

[zannej]

On 10/27/2016 at 1:32 PM, BkWurm1 said:

I kept thinking Topsy Turvy would have been a way better name. 

You win! That would have been a MUCH better name.

19 hours ago, allyw said:

I enjoyed this episode for the most part but a couple of things bugged me.

First, when Barry returned it was said that Iris was mad at Joe and I thought it was implied that she had her own place, so why didn't she and Barry hang out there?

Second, what is the obsession with Tom Cavanah? He seems very capable of doing his job but there is nothing outstanding about him for them to keep creating different versions of Wells so he can stay on the show.

Yeah. I assumed Iris had her own place too-- so why wasn't Barry over at her place instead? Did they forget that she probably had her own place? Or did they think it would be too awkward since her place might have been the place she shared with Eddie? Would have been nice if they mentioned it.

As for Tom Cavanagh, I am biased since he is the main reason I watch the show. I still like his first character the best, but I find whatever he does interesting. I'm willing to give the new character a chance and see how it works out.

7 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

I think he's the best actor on the show. I was solidly in the Cavanagh camp after season 1; there was a lot of good, subtle acting in his Reverse-Flash that made the character work perfectly for me, and I've really enjoyed his different versions of Wells. I like the team, but I think the show would lose a lot for me without him.

I have to agree here.

[Maverick]

 Maybe Iris is crashing with a friend.  Maybe even Linda Park.

[GHScorpiosRule]

21 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 Maybe Iris is crashing with a friend.  Maybe even Linda Park.

Except Linda moved to another city because of that Zoom nonsense.

I'm just going to put the blame on the writers, who are acting like the ones who write for General Hospital-in that none of them read or look at what was written BEFORE. Seriously, It was in the premiere! Not two seasons ago!???????

[Maverick]

Quote

Except Linda moved to another city because of that Zoom nonsense.

 Maybe, maybe not.  Flashpoint.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Maverick said:

 Maybe, maybe not.  Flashpoint.

Well they've talked about how they defeated Zoom and the various Earths, without Barry's team asking him what the hell he's talking about-so I'm going to believe all that did happen and wasn't changed.

it's stupid, but I'm not going to use Flashpoint for plot holes that don't nt make sense and which weren't overtly changed like Iris not being told about Francine, Diggle's daughter being wiped out, appearance of Julian and Alchemy.

[Maverick]

 I know Zoom still happened.  I meant we don't know if Linda moved away because of it or not.

[allyw]

14 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

I think he's the best actor on the show. I was solidly in the Cavanagh camp after season 1; there was a lot of good, subtle acting in his Reverse-Flash that made the character work perfectly for me, and I've really enjoyed his different versions of Wells. I like the team, but I think the show would lose a lot for me without him.

I guess we'll agree to disagree but I don't think he's any better than any of the other actors on the show. All of them are more than capable of doing their jobs. The only person I would consider a weak link is Danielle Panabaker and even she is getting better.

[Argenta]

On 28/10/2016 at 2:33 AM, allyw said:

Second, what is the obsession with Tom Cavanah? He seems very capable of doing his job but there is nothing outstanding about him for them to keep creating different versions of Wells so he can stay on the show.

I would definitely describe him as outstanding. He's one of those magnetic actors who just draws my eyes whenever he's on screen. His portrayal of Thawne-Wells in S1 totally hooked me; he was charismatic in an understated way, and just so damn good at blending all that character's different traits and giving hints of what lay underneath. He's been equally impressive as Harry and in what we've seen of HR so far, so I'm really happy that they're keeping him on the show.

That's not intended as a negative commentary on the other cast members, though. I also love Grant and Carlos' work, and Danielle as Caitlin is adorable even if, as you say, she wasn't one of the strongest performers to start with. I'm less invested in the Wests, but if any member of the main S.T.A.R Labs team left the show, I would miss them horribly. 

I also find that it's a good thing to have a blend of ages in the main cast, which is why I like having the Wellses and Joe around to mix with the youngsters :)

[BkWurm1]

I knock The Flash for a lot of the things it does but as an Arrow fan I remain envious that this show isn't so quick to ship ff or worse, kill off its elders.  #ripMoiraseason2

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I knock The Flash for a lot of the things it does but as an Arrow fan I remain envious that this show isn't so quick to ship ff or worse, kill off its elders.  #ripMoiraseason2

No? What would you call killing off Henry?

[BkWurm1]

27 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No? What would you call killing off Henry?

A side character that was important in name only once they put him on a bus.  I can't think anyone wasn't aware that he was only being brought back so he could die.  It was hard to get worked up by such a transparent writing set up.  Annoyed, yes, but he was expendable once he left the main narrative to go live in the woods for no apparent reason.   

I was specifically thinking about main regular cast members.  Moira was more equivalent to Joe (but soooo much scarier) than Henry.  

Edited October 29, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Trini]

I liked this one because it felt like a Season 1 episode. It just sucks this is all an alternate timeline.

I'm going to need a really good reason (actually verbalized on the show) as why Caitlin isn't talking to the team about her powers.

Grant does awkward/dork really well! The West family scenes were great; and Wally and Jesse are cute. Seems like Barry and Iris had some practice in between last week's 'chaste' kisses and the makeout session here.

So Barry's moving out? New set! (Hopefully) I'd be nice to see Iris' place now and then though.

Mirror Master and Top were fine; but MM is supposed to be a major villain for the Flash, and in that regard, he was underwhelming. He was more like a typical villain-of-the-week.

The auditions for the new Wells was funny, but maybe they should just bump Cavanugh down to recurring instead of doing obviously silly stuff like this.

[catrice2]

I, for one, do not see the necessity of Wells. I would be just as happy if they introduced someone else to fulfill his role on the team.  I don't think he is the best actor on the show...I think that is Jesse- Joe West.  I find him extremely boring, and even more so as Earth 2 Harry with his equally boring daughter Jessie.   I found the search for a new Harry to just be a unnecessary distraction from the story of the week. 

I can appreciate, however, that other people do like him.  

As for Caitlyn, other than the new side of her erupting, have they indicated that anything else changed for her? Also, I can't remember, is Barry's father still dead? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

 Also, I can't remember, is Barry's father still dead? 

Yes.

[Trini]

Oh, and how'd it take so long for them to feature a female superhero?* It was great to see Jesse suited up. More of this, Show.

 

*(I'm still hoping Plastique is alive somewhere; and Hawkgirl did her heroing on other shows.)

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 10/25/2016 at 10:47 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm not understanding this whole all other Harrison Welles must be evil because the first one was. Why? Because the first season Harrison Welles wasn't the real Harrison Welles. He was Eobard Thawne. Thawne just stole the real Harrison's DNA...and from the little we saw of the real one, he wasn't a douche or bastard.

That's the thing about the multiverse, though. No one stopped to think "Hey, even though the real Harrison Wells of Earth 1 was decent, and the Harrison Wells of Earth-2 was curmudgeonly with a heart of gold (with a little smidgen of murder inside), maybe Earths 3-5 billion just might have Harrison Wells who are evil geniuses. Or maybe a non-Harrison evil genius will solve this riddle first and cause problems." Although the alt-Harrys we saw were pretty hilarious, it doesn't mask the fact that reaching out was a really bad idea.

[BkWurm1]

I don't understand why they never worry that the Reverse Flash might still be using Wells in one of the multiverses as a disguise.

Edited October 31, 2016 by BkWurm1

[AudienceofOne]

Better stop making out, sis. Dad's home. *Groan*. Just when I thought the show had left its weird incest vibe behind.

And speaking of new Darwin Award recipients - in case  you thought nobody could out-stupid Barry, we have Harrison "let's get another version of me from a parallel universe" Wells.

I had thought one tiny sliver of light from Flashpoint would be that Snart was still alive. No such luck, I guess.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't understand why they never worry that the Reverse Flash might still be using Wells in one of the multiverses as a disguise.

That was my first thought. How do you know it's actually Wells at all?

[zannej]

I don't think the awkwardness had anything to do with sibling/incest type stuff. Joe just isn't comfortable seeing his daughter making out with anyone. And he probably still thinks of Barry as a kid as well so it is awkward. And Barry knows Joe feels awkward about it so he feels awkward about it.

I did think that sending out a "help wanted" thing to other universes for Harrison Wells was a bit odd. Harry has had some crackpot ideas in the past though. So, maybe he didn't think they would find anyone.

[Moya the Leviathan]

On 10/29/2016 at 2:56 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

No? What would you call killing off Henry?

You've got a point, but they do have the multiverse-sized breach that they can bring back Jay Garrick or Earth-2 Henry to dispense mentoring advice. I so wished for an Earth-2 Moira Queen to come through on a crossover episode, though.  

[driedfruit]

On 10/27/2016 at 9:33 PM, allyw said:

Second, what is the obsession with Tom Cavanah? He seems very capable of doing his job but there is nothing outstanding about him for them to keep creating different versions of Wells so he can stay on the show.

I don't get it either. Much as I used to love the multiple versions of Wells he's long outlived his usefulness and now he's painfully boring.

[BkWurm1]

On 10/31/2016 at 4:39 PM, zannej said:

I don't think the awkwardness had anything to do with sibling/incest type stuff. Joe just isn't comfortable seeing his daughter making out with anyone. And he probably still thinks of Barry as a kid as well so it is awkward. And Barry knows Joe feels awkward about it so he feels awkward about it.

 

I think Joe isn't comfortable watching either Barry or Iris make out with anyone and that it was doubly bad for him to watch both of them at the same time make out without each other.  Not even making it about Barry and Iris's relationship, but how Joe is in a unique position to experience twice the uncomfortablness that normal parents could experience.  

[TobinAlbers]

Cisco was piiiisssed that Harry beat him to naming Mirror Master.

The way Caitlyn was checking out Mirror Master's mug shot screams that Killer Frost will try to hook up with him when she decides to go bad.

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

Cisco was piiiisssed that Harry beat him to naming Mirror Master.

The way Caitlyn was checking out Mirror Master's mug shot screams that Killer Frost will try to hook up with him when she decides to go bad.

I was so hoping that they went with Mirror Man instead of Mirror Master -- because then this could have been his theme song.  Yay Human League !!
 

[sarthaz]

Did Barry seriously just tell Iris, "I finally have everything I've ever wanted."  Congrats on finally getting those two dead parents you've always wanted.