S01.E07: The Eternal Shriek

[cpcathy]

It is his first neighborhood, and he said he wanted to live with the neighbors because he loves humanity so much, as the architects don't normally live there.

[topanga]

18 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

As to the accent thing. Chidi is from Cameroon. To him everyone from there has a "middle American" accent, while those from Paris have "Australian" accents. It's done in theater all the time.

Just like everyone in ancient Rome and Biblical locations spoke English with British accents.

On 10/21/2016 at 10:18 AM, tennisgurl said:

Oh man, Selfie nostalgia! I miss that show so much.

Me too. John Cho!!!!

[Zahdii]

I've also suspected that The Good Place doesn't necessarily mean The Best Place.

I also suspect, or at least hope, that when Eleanor asked Janet if she could hear what was going on in The Bad Place, all the noise, shrieking, and cries were actually the inhabitants of a Bad Place neighborhood watching a movie.  Like when you go watch The Rocky Horror Picture Show.  If someone sings, you sing along.  If something surprising happens, you all throw your popcorn in the air.  It's a very loud, physical, audience participant show.  (I've never been, but I've got a relative who never misses a showing and I've heard about it.)

I'm hoping that at least some of the Bad Places are actually pretty fun.  Like that old saying, "come to the dark side, we have chocolate".  The Bad Place is a lot of partying and object lessons interspersed along the way.  Maybe sometime soon, the inhabitants of our neighborhood will awaken to find that some of them are moving along on the train to a different neighborhood and people from some of the other neighborhoods are moving in.

[Mabinogia]

John Cho would have been a great fit for this show.

[iMonrey]

Quote

All I can say is that this is one of the few shows I don't watch while doing other things.  And I regret to inform you that, sadly, this means that this show is doomed.

LOL that's my worry too. I hate to say it, but the show is maybe a little too smart and high-concept for network TV. It also has the disadvantage of being on NBC, which has fewer affiliates than CBS or ABC. That said, Cancel Bear has it listed as a likely renewal. Too bad we'll have to wait a whole year before another season, if they're only doing 13 episodes.

[hertolo]

On 21.10.2016 at 4:07 PM, tominboston said:

Hmmm... they really are moving the plot along quickly. OK, so Eleanor did a Good Thing and confessed to being out of place in order to save Chidi and Michael from ongoing distress. We know she won't get kicked down to the Bad Place and this will all be resolved by the final episode of the season, but then what will be the theme of a hoped-for season 2?

 

The premise wouldn't have sustained itself over 22 episodes in any case. You would necessarily have to put in fillers where X or Y go out on a tangent tracking a monkey that stole their Z. Episodes such as these would then having nothing to do with the core show itself so I am glad they are (apparently) taking the high road. Telling one story correctly seems so much better than those cheap laughs.

As for season 2 - I don't know. They will have to change up the setting a bit which will bring in a fresh air, new characters and a new problem at the core of the season. The shows I like the most are those who pull that switch off efficiently. Weeds was a good example constantly changing. With HIMYM you can see the difference between the earlier seasons where every finale brought a life-change to the later ones where they were just stalling and doing gimmicky episodes.

So I do hope that the good place will pull this off and this episode gives me hope for that. The show runners do not shy away from radical action - but still have a good amount of space for fun left. And I must concur, the description at the top of this thread just shows that dry humour that is no funny (to me).

[kaygeeret]

Sooooo....

I'm thinking this is a particular type of 'purgatory' (recovering catholic here) and they have to EARN their way into the true "Good Place"

Good Times

I have everything in me that can be crossed hoping for a second season - -

I agree the high concept will work against it, but man, I am having fun while it lasts.

[ThoughtAFool]

21 hours ago, MischaMouse said:

It didn't seem to me that she did much, if any, reasoning at all. 

Agreed.  I think Eleanor's saving graces are her conscience and compassion.  Don't get me wrong, she's obviously shown a lot of uncaring self-justification (and not just in the flashbacks), but when she has been moved to do good things it's because of Tahani's crying, Michael's eternal shriek, Chidi's missing out on his true soulmate, and now Chidi's misery/discomfort had having killed Janet.  I don't think her confession was a calculated act.  I think she saw Chidi suffering and acted to stop it.

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, kaygeeret said:

(recovering catholic here)

I still have this faint image in my mind of my boyhood catechism illustration of Purgatory as a train leaving earth and making stops along the way to heaven.  What curious means to get your point across.

[holly4755]

all I can say is that it is an evil malevolent running the good place, to torture someone for inadvertent failure? 

[stillshimpy]

Quote

all I can say is that it is an evil malevolent running the good place, to torture someone for inadvertent failure?

I guess I don't actually naturally believe that Michael is telling the truth at all times.  I think partially because it makes so little sense that Michael would be eternally tortured rather than just being returned to wherever he didn't have suspenders (or a body that needed them).  

Michael's role as architect of The Good Place is kind of odd.  We've got Jason, who didn't necessarily seem like a bad person in life, just someone who was so dim as to be interchangeable with bad, as he didn't have the wits to sort one from the other.  We also have Eleanor who got the video of someone else's life but we've still no notion who that person was, or where the hell the do-gooder might be.  I mean, if she's still down on Earth doing all manner of Earthly kindnesses, splendid, I guess? It's just....why are those memories available for viewing if Goody McGooderston is still a going concern?  Same thing with Jason's alleged misidentification. 

Just saying, I guess I've assumed that Michael is just playing a role, vs. telling the truth.  If he's in some sort of Proving Ground for "last chance, which way are you going to break, good or bad?" it makes sense to me that he'd actually participate by being a catalyst for opportunities to grow.  

That or the Old Testament actually undersold what a meanie God was supposed to be which would be sort of astounding, what with Old Testament God being essentially the meanest high school principal in all of creation, "I feel a plague of locusts coming on, to punish you for exercising this Free Will stuff that I'm allegedly all about, after that I'll roll forth some armies on infidels and if I get bored, I might just flood the fucking joint and start over".   

Although it really would be kind of funny if Michael really was just that chill about eternal torment.  If anything I think this episode cemented that belief for me.  I'm having a hard time believing Michael, even as a new architect, would be this oblivious.  It feels stupid to say this but....if nothing else....one would assume ye old God figure would be in the know what with the ineffable, omnipotent, omnipresence thing and all.  So I guess I've chosen to believe that Michael must be performing a purposeful function.  

That or, for freaking real, that kid in Calgary who got it almost entirely right must have preceded his theory by peeing in terror if "soul ripped into tiny shreds and then seeded on countless suns" is actually the real gig.  Jebus, you'd keep your room picked up and do your homework if you had an inkling that the slightest transgression would land you in eternal shriekville for....eternity. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by stillshimpy

[iMonrey]

Quote

The premise wouldn't have sustained itself over 22 episodes in any case.

I don't know, I'd like to give the writers enough credit to make 22 decent episodes on this premise. I strongly suspect the limited number of episodes has something to do with the fact that Kristen Bell and Ted Danson command pretty high salaries. You'll notice the rest of the cast is comprised of virtual unknowns. The show was probably considered a bit of a gamble. And money is always the bottom line: if this show had been a mega-hit right out of the gate with great social buzz we'd be seeing a back order of nine more episodes regardless of what the writers claim was their original intention.

[hertolo]

Yeah sure, those are the reasons behind the smaller season, but even if they may be the wrong reasons, I welcome them because they lead to the same result. Shorter seasons are better. The TV show structure always builds itself to a watershed moment ("the finale"). The longer a season, the bigger those are and you may have several such breaking points in the season itself. This doesn't lend itself to natural storytelling. A smaller order may allow the writers a more focused approach and longer time to hash out good episodes than the stressed out ones for other shows. I guess I just wanted to stress that I do not distrust the writers (it's a good show after all), but my comment was entirely directed at the structure of weekly episodes over a yearly season. It seems only the US has this strict a annual rhythm - or had if I look at netflix or even HBO.

PS: It's really is surprising how few actors/characters this show has.

[Kromm]

On 10/24/2016 at 5:14 PM, hertolo said:

The premise wouldn't have sustained itself over 22 episodes in any case

It would have if they'd had that episode order, but also the guts to split it into two 11 episode sub-seasons.

13x1 works too of course. The big difference is that we get less per year.

But that's not a bad thing. While the premise could have worked over 22 episodes split into two blocks, the main problem would have been writing 22 good scripts in that time. 13 is much easier, and then you have more time to prep the NEXT 13.

In terms of an overall plan, a blueprint, I believe I read somewhere that they assembled a general one for several seasons right from the get go. 

[bros402]

16 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

I guess I don't actually naturally believe that Michael is telling the truth at all times.  I think partially because it makes so little sense that Michael would be eternally tortured rather than just being returned to wherever he didn't have suspenders (or a body that needed them).  

Michael's role as architect of The Good Place is kind of odd.  We've got Jason, who didn't necessarily seem like a bad person in life, just someone who was so dim as to be interchangeable with bad, as he didn't have the wits to sort one from the other.  We also have Eleanor who got the video of someone else's life but we've still no notion who that person was, or where the hell the do-gooder might be.  I mean, if she's still down on Earth doing all manner of Earthly kindnesses, splendid, I guess? It's just....why are those memories available for viewing if Goody McGooderston is still a going concern?  Same thing with Jason's alleged misidentification. 

Just saying, I guess I've assumed that Michael is just playing a role, vs. telling the truth.  If he's in some sort of Proving Ground for "last chance, which way are you going to break, good or bad?" it makes sense to me that he'd actually participate by being a catalyst for opportunities to grow.  

That or the Old Testament actually undersold what a meanie God was supposed to be which would be sort of astounding, what with Old Testament God being essentially the meanest high school principal in all of creation, "I feel a plague of locusts coming on, to punish you for exercising this Free Will stuff that I'm allegedly all about, after that I'll roll forth some armies on infidels and if I get bored, I might just flood the fucking joint and start over".   

Although it really would be kind of funny if Michael really was just that chill about eternal torment.  If anything I think this episode cemented that belief for me.  I'm having a hard time believing Michael, even as a new architect, would be this oblivious.  It feels stupid to say this but....if nothing else....one would assume ye old God figure would be in the know what with the ineffable, omnipotent, omnipresence thing and all.  So I guess I've chosen to believe that Michael must be performing a purposeful function.  

That or, for freaking real, that kid in Calgary who got it almost entirely right must have preceded his theory by peeing in terror if "soul ripped into tiny shreds and then seeded on countless suns" is actually the real gig.  Jebus, you'd keep your room picked up and do your homework if you had an inkling that the slightest transgression would land you in eternal shriekville for....eternity. 

What if Good Eleanor is just in a coma, or something like that? So she isn't dead yet, then in the final minutes of the finale, she dies and ends up in the Good Place and is like "wtf who's this motherforker?"

[stillshimpy]

Quote

What if Good Eleanor is just in a coma, or something like that? So she isn't dead yet, then in the final minutes of the finale, she dies and ends up in the Good Place and is like "wtf who's this motherforker?"

 

"Hey, that's my clown painting!!"  

I know it makes sense that they really can't answer a lot, right out of the gate.  They can't tip their hand or paint themselves into writing corners (or mix and misuse their metaphors....) but I do like that they have enough weird details, like both Eleanor and Jason being surrounded by things from the people they have been mistaken for, to make it kind of pleasantly confusing.  It just doesn't make much sense that there's some hierarchy or architects, planning out every detail about someone's afterlife home that they are given based on meritorious actions, which suggests a system where a lot of things are monitored, but so lax that two people in the neighborhood are there by mistake.  

Anyway, 

On 10/24/2016 at 7:12 AM, Mabinogia said:

This is how I'm feeling, and I think Michael, himself, is one of them. Like, he's been given this town, and possibly even Eleanor, as a sort of test. Didn't they/he say this was his first town?

 

 

I really like that theory, Mabinogia.  They are all in their training wheel afterlife together.  It is Michael's first neighborhood, by the way, although you can make up something else to fill that gap.  Lord knows I do.  

Edited October 26, 2016 by stillshimpy

[John Potts]

Maybe I'm a monster, but I was going, "You can't kill Janet - she's not alive!" (though Chidi did make a reasonable case that while she is a construct, she has many of the same properties of a living being - she'd easily pass the Turing Test, for a start). Of course, I'd be screwed once Janet Mk 2 (or whatever it was - Mark 8?) announced that she'd been murdered.

Surprised Eleanor confessed. There's not wanting somebody else to suffer and there's throwing yourself under the bus for them - Chidi's lessons really are having an effect on her.

[aradia22]

This was rough. I'm fine with moral relativity. God knows I can accept a lot on my shows. But that has to be calibrated to the tone of the universe. I can accept behavior on Reaper that I wouldn't accept on Charmed. I can accept things on Gossip Girl that I wouldn't accept on Degrassi. And it really hurts that show that that whole point (at least right now) is to tip the scales to Eleanor being a good person. It's not like I'm watching Teachers or You're the Worst. Turning off Janet instead of fessing up and accepting the consequences is horrible. It undoes whatever baby steps she was making in the past episodes. And even with the joke they very much made shutting down Janet seem like murder.

That said, the actress who plays Janet is great and was very funny this episode. 

At least the end of the episode helped a little.