Questions and Speculations

[arc]

I'm frame-stepping my way through the preview now! I think that's Hector. He's got the eye scar.

Also, in the preview William wields a dagger the way TMIB does, and it looks similar too. On the other hand, while Logan, William, and TMIB are all right handed, Logan is the one who holsters his gun the way TMIB does (reverse grip across the left hip), while William wears his on his right hip.

Separately, not that anything in ep 5 directly triggered this thought, what Ford said earlier about keeping hosts naked while in livestock management implies that no staffers are hosts. Having clothed hosts as livestock mgmt breaks down the dehumanization barrier Ford wants to maintain, even if the staffer hosts don't know they're hosts.

Edited October 31, 2016 by arc

[bmoore4026]

I'm calling it now - Dolores is Wyatt.

[Hootis]

The thing that really grinds my gears about this show is the lack of consistency in the technology and it's use.

Here they have built robots that are so human-like you cannot discern the difference.  Not just on the outside, no; they bleed (in fact, judging from this episode they actually NEED the blood for some internal function), they mass about the same as humans, they sweat.  The technology required for something like this - the individual technologies that would need to be combined - are absolutely staggering.

Fine.  I can suspend my disbelief.

What I can NOT understand is the relative stone-age world that we are shown behind the scenes.  I'm not asking for JJ Abrams Star Trek shiny world, but these people are shown in concrete bunkers using crappy tablets and chopping these technological marvels up with bone saws.  They go searching for rogue robots by hiking with a lantern...the idea that anything down to a rabbit could elude them in this controlled environment strains credulity in the first place.  They wear modern (2000's) clothes and hair styles, live and work in rusty Raccoon City.  None of it matches with the foundational premise we are asked to believe about the Host technology.

[ennui]

23 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

I'm calling it now - Dolores is Wyatt.

I think MiB is Ford.  So there. Well, until MiB asked Ford "how am I doing," anyway. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by ennui

[phoenyx]

2 hours ago, ennui said:

I think MiB is Ford.  So there. Well, until MiB asked Ford "how am I doing," anyway. 

Lol :-)

On 10/31/2016 at 3:40 PM, bmoore4026 said:

I'm calling it now - Dolores is Wyatt.

Ironically, that may not be so off- some people (isn't it so much safer to say "some people" when speculating ;-)?) think that there is a strong connection between Wyatt and Arnold. And since it seems that a part of Arnold may be Dolores' "inner voice", well, I think you can see where this is going -.-...

[arc]

(quoting myself from elsewhere) I kinda want to read Westworld as an allegory for actors wresting a show away from writers.

[phoenyx]

1 hour ago, arc said:

(quoting myself from elsewhere) I kinda want to read Westworld as an allegory for actors wresting a show away from writers.

Interesting. What draws you to that theory?

[arc]

Most esp the preview for the coming episodes, where Maeve says she'd "like to make some changes", while handing over a tablet. It's such a Hollywood cliche of an actor deciding they want some script changes.

[phoenyx]

1 hour ago, arc said:

Most esp the preview for the coming episodes, where Maeve says she'd "like to make some changes", while handing over a tablet. It's such a Hollywood cliche of an actor deciding they want some script changes.

I like :-)

[bmoore4026]

4 hours ago, phoenyx said:

some people (isn't it so much safer to say "some people" when speculating ;-)?)

Unless you're on Wikipedia.

[phoenyx]

26 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Unless you're on Wikipedia.

Lol :-)

[ennui]

I rewatched Dissonance and Contrapasso, and had some thoughts. I think the little android boy is Ford's brother. I think MiB is terminally ill and this is his last hurrah. I think Ford's big earth-moving project is the Maze, which leads me to this: Everyone is speculating about time lines, but I don't think they're lines at all. I think they're loops. We know that Dolores is an unreliable narrator, so we need to keep an eye on Logan and William, but I suspect the story loops will develop more as the show continues. I'm probably not explaining it very well. But I was thinking that MiB and Dolores are seeking a Maze which hasn't been completed yet.

Oh, and I predict we'll get out to the fringe where the guests can kill each other. 

[Gobi]

Ennui - TMIB has clearly indicated that he is looking for real danger, so we may get to a place  where guests can be killed.

[Dobian]

There are so many theories, that there are two timelines, that Ford is an android, that MIB is Logan in the future.  My only hope is that they really have mapped all this out at a high level.  What are the timelines, who is Arnold/Ford/Logan/William/MIB, why did robots apparently revolt years ago?  I don't want this show to fall into make-it-up-as-we-go-along syndrome, which is what killed Lost.

[arc]

47 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I don't want this show to fall into make-it-up-as-we-go-along syndrome, which is what killed Lost.

They literally were that far behind by episode six, which is why they took a break to finish writing the rest of the season altogether before filming it.

[JTH]

The Piano - it seems to wake them up. Could it be a disguise for a hidden keyboard? When Lutz resurrected the bird along with Maeve, it looked like his fingers were playing the piano. Perhaps he is the 'shade' that will wake up the hosts in the real world, allowing them  to attack.

 Bernard is android Arnold - The real Arnold is the one secretly chatting with Deloris. Bernard's son died, Ford mentions that Arnold's personal life was marked with tragedy. Bernard tells his ex that he wants the pain since  it's all he has left. Later on Deloris says the same thing, Bernard says it`s beautiful and asked if that was written in her code. It seems that it`s the first Bernard's heard it. I believe Arnold got it from Deloris, and Bernard got it from Arnold. Ford sees everything in the present timeline, and Bernard knows that. The Deloris and Arnold chats Could be the reason Ford watches everything. 

How did the man in black know the maze was inside kissy‘s skull? Why does he wear gloves all the time and hide all but his face? Are cyborgs a possibility? Is the little boy an android of Ford when he was a child?  

[Gobi]

We're now halfway through the first of what is plotted out to be five seasons. A lot of questions have been raised. Which will be answered this season?

Timelines - The big question for most fans. Is the William/Logan story contemporaneous with TMIB's, or are they separated in time? I expect this to be resolved this season.

Is William or Logan a younger version of TMIB? If the  timeline question is resolved, we should get the answer. It's possible that we could learn there are two timelines, yet not get the answer to this question.

Where is Westworld? Is it on earth, the moon, some other planet? At this point, the question has no bearing on the plot, so I don't expect an answer. We may not find out until the final season.

Are Ford and Bernard robots? My bias is showing here, as I don't think they are. If they are, I expect to find out about only one of them.

The Maze. What is it? Who made it? What's in it? Unlike the timeline, this has been directly addressed in the show. I don't think we'll get an answer. If this season ends with a cliffhanger, I expect it to involve the maze.

TMIB. Will he find what he's looking for? Is there anything to find, or is he just insane? As this is tied in with the maze, and Ed Harris is signed for a second season, I don't expect an answer.

What was the stray relaying to a satellite, and who was it for? Tough call, depends on how this ties in with the main story.

Will there be a full scale robot revolt? Doubtful. If there was, that would mean four seasons of humans fighting robots which I, frankly, would find boring. I do expect isolated incidents, though.

What is Ford's new plan for Westworld? I don't expect an answer.

Who is the Delos representative that Ford knew about and Theresa didn't? I expect this to be answered.

What is in the safe that Hector keeps stealing? I don't think there is anything there, other than what a bandit would want to steal, so I don't expect an answer.

Arnold. Is he dead, alive, the ghost in the machine? Since Arnold would seem to be the force behind  the ultimate robot revolt, I don't expect an answer.

Any other thoughts?

[okerry]

2 hours ago, Gobi said:

We're now halfway through the first of what is plotted out to be five seasons. A lot of questions have been raised. Which will be answered this season?

Timelines - The big question for most fans. Is the William/Logan story contemporaneous with TMIB's, or are they separated in time? I expect this to be resolved this season.

Is William or Logan a younger version of TMIB? If the  timeline question is resolved, we should get the answer. It's possible that we could learn there are two timelines, yet not get the answer to this question.

*****I really, really hope that William/Logan have nothing to do with the MiB and that their stories are contemporaneous. Two timelines would never have occurred to me while simply watching the show - I've only seen it on boards like this one.

Where is Westworld? Is it on earth, the moon, some other planet? At this point, the question has no bearing on the plot, so I don't expect an answer. We may not find out until the final season.

*****Anytime people are outside, conditions seem entirely Earth-normal - atmosphere, gravity, etc. Orion seems to be a commonly known constellation, as it is on Earth. I thought that the Show producers said that it took place "in the 21st century," and there's been mention of how it's been some 30 years since "the incident." Those of us who've seen the original movie took "the incident" to mean the Gunslinger going off-script and killing guests in the movie. The movie was set in the 1980s, IIRC, so that would put Westworld pretty much contemporary with our own - very near-future at most.

Are Ford and Bernard robots? My bias is showing here, as I don't think they are. If they are, I expect to find out about only one of them.

***I hope not. Bernard might be, but I sure hope Ford isn't.

The Maze. What is it? Who made it? What's in it? Unlike the timeline, this has been directly addressed in the show. I don't think we'll get an answer. If this season ends with a cliffhanger, I expect it to involve the maze.

TMIB. Will he find what he's looking for? Is there anything to find, or is he just insane? As this is tied in with the maze, and Ed Harris is signed for a second season, I don't expect an answer.

What was the stray relaying to a satellite, and who was it for? Tough call, depends on how this ties in with the main story.

Will there be a full scale robot revolt? Doubtful. If there was, that would mean four seasons of humans fighting robots which I, frankly, would find boring. I do expect isolated incidents, though.

What is Ford's new plan for Westworld? I don't expect an answer.

***I got nothing on these, lol, though I agree with you that I don't want to see endless humans v. robots, either.

Who is the Delos representative that Ford knew about and Theresa didn't? I expect this to be answered.

***I'm convinced it's Logan.

What is in the safe that Hector keeps stealing? I don't think there is anything there, other than what a bandit would want to steal, so I don't expect an answer.

Arnold. Is he dead, alive, the ghost in the machine? Since Arnold would seem to be the force behind  the ultimate robot revolt, I don't expect an answer.

Any other thoughts?

***No, but great questions about a great show!

[ennui]

I just saw this on slashfilm.com:

“Humans are like Elohim (angels) in that they are immortal and practically omnipotent over the things they created in their image,” the redditor writes. “Hosts are humans before the fall. They are incapable of independent action; they have no knowledge of good and evil. They also run around naked a lot, something that will likely change after gaining consciousness due to shame.”

They speculate that Dolores is Eve. I guess that would make Maeve the harlot in the temple.

[phoenyx]

23 hours ago, Gobi said:

*****I really, really hope that William/Logan have nothing to do with the MiB and that their stories are contemporaneous. Two timelines would never have occurred to me while simply watching the show - I've only seen it on boards like this one.

I'm not sure if William/Logan have to do with MiB, though I suspect that Logan might be MiB now. Until today, I had been a firm believer in one timeline, with only flashbacks to the past. Then, sneakyflute pointed me to one of the last scenes in Episode 5, 48 minutes in. At the time, Dolores is in the train with William and Lawrence talking to her left. Then the camera goes to her alone and she says "I'm coming". Then the camera pans to her left- only William and Lawrence are no longer there. The best explanation I can come up with is that there are, indeed, 2 timelines.

[phoenyx]

This is a -really- off the wall speculation, perhaps easily shown to be mistaken. But is there any possibility at all that William might -be- Arnold? Here's an idea as to why the change of name- he basically decided, like MiB, that he wasn't going back. But the park management finds him. In order for Park management to not discover his true identity, he calls himself Arnold. They find that he's an excellent programmer and Ford decides to employ him. What Ford has said in the past about Arnold would ring true for William. In particular, part of his dialogue with Theresa in Episode 4:

**

Ford: Ah. (nods) In the beginning, I imagined things would be ... perfectly balanced. Even had a bet with my partner, Arnold, to that effect. We made a hundred hopeful story-lines. Of course, almost ... no one took us up on them. I lost the bet. Arnold always held a somewhat dim view of people. He preferred the hosts. He begged me to not let you people in -- the money-men -- Delos. 

**

If Logan worked for Delos, it would all make sense. Ofcourse William would beg Ford not to let people like Logan in- he didn't exactly have a good experience of Logan. And it'd also make sense that Logan was MiB, as he'd certainly have a lot more time to get acquainted with her over the years. As to the idea that MiB works for another company, a charitable foundation, who says Delos couldn't have a charitable part to it? Many companies do. 

Edited November 6, 2016 by phoenyx

[NutMeg]

If I'm honest, the reason why I don't WANT there to be a two time lines is because I've never saw it coming, but read it there first, and in a way, if there is, I'll wish I han't read it it first because I like to be surprised. 

At the same time, I like to go into deep analysis of shows I think deserve deep analysis, and that's why I come here. And maybe that's why I really hope that this dual timeline is wrong, though I'm starting to think it's not. Because, if indeed there is a dual time line, I'll be extremely angry at myself for reading it here first rather than experiencing the shock firsthand. And I may stop reading here. Of course that will not make any difference to the posters, but for me it will make a huge difference, both richer in that I would watch without any preconceived canvas of interpretation, but also poorer, because I would have no way of discussing it, as in real life I don't know anyone who watches WW. 

I feel so conflicted - both grateful for this thread and amazing insights (and transcrits! - thank you) and annoyed at myself for getting info that might make my future viewing mundane rather than amazing.

Sorry for this rant, I had to get it out there.  

[Gobi]

3 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

If I'm honest, the reason why I don't WANT there to be a two time lines is because I've never saw it coming, but read it there first, and in a way, if there is, I'll wish I han't read it it first because I like to be surprised. 

At the same time, I like to go into deep analysis of shows I think deserve deep analysis, and that's why I come here. And maybe that's why I really hope that this dual timeline is wrong, though I'm starting to think it's not. Because, if indeed there is a dual time line, I'll be extremely angry at myself for reading it here first rather than experiencing the shock firsthand. And I may stop reading here. Of course that will not make any difference to the posters, but for me it will make a huge difference, both richer in that I would watch without any preconceived canvas of interpretation, but also poorer, because I would have no way of discussing it, as in real life I don't know anyone who watches WW. 

I feel so conflicted - both grateful for this thread and amazing insights (and transcrits! - thank you) and annoyed at myself for getting info that might make my future viewing mundane rather than amazing.

Sorry for this rant, I had to get it out there.  

I'm with you on this. If it turns out there are two timelines, I'll always wonder if I would have caught that on my own.

[phoenyx]

5 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

If I'm honest, the reason why I don't WANT there to be a two time lines is because I've never saw it coming, but read it there first, and in a way, if there is, I'll wish I han't read it it first because I like to be surprised. 

At the same time, I like to go into deep analysis of shows I think deserve deep analysis, and that's why I come here. And maybe that's why I really hope that this dual timeline is wrong, though I'm starting to think it's not. Because, if indeed there is a dual time line, I'll be extremely angry at myself for reading it here first rather than experiencing the shock firsthand. And I may stop reading here. Of course that will not make any difference to the posters, but for me it will make a huge difference, both richer in that I would watch without any preconceived canvas of interpretation, but also poorer, because I would have no way of discussing it, as in real life I don't know anyone who watches WW. 

I feel so conflicted - both grateful for this thread and amazing insights (and transcrits! - thank you) and annoyed at myself for getting info that might make my future viewing mundane rather than amazing.

Sorry for this rant, I had to get it out there.  

I think you may be overestimating the abilities of those here to figure out what's in store. We may have figured out a few things, but I think future episodes will have a lot more we didn't figure out, perhaps things we didn't even imagine. Truth is stranger than fiction ;-). 

[Gobi]

Or at least fiction is stranger than supposition!

[NutMeg]

6 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I'm with you on this. If it turns out there are two timelines, I'll always wonder if I would have caught that on my own.

Of course you would have caught it, but in due time :)

3 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

I think you may be overestimating the abilities of those here to figure out what's in store. We may have figured out a few things, but I think future episodes will have a lot more we didn't figure out, perhaps things we didn't even imagine. Truth is stranger than fiction ;-). 

Yes and no. Yes for the interpretation of characters, whether Bernard is a host, where Maeve will go from there, etc. No as regards sci fi experience, for lack of a better wording. To illustrate what I mean by that, sic fy savvy people saw the twist or a twist coming right away in Mr. Robot, might have been a trope, or just homage to other classics, or savvy posters, I don't know. Still, it lessened my experience. Now while I do watch a number of so called "science fiction" movie, they are more Orphan Black or Black Mirror than Star Treck, i.e. I'm more interested in the social, psychological or even economic and political effects of technology than I am in some projection of a future world, although the same aspects would still be present, but the CGI and focus on how different things look often take me out of it. (When I read, I can take the most futuristic world you want, when I watch, I always find the visuals cheesy, but that's me, and I realize I may not be the typical audience). Some of you probably have mastered the canons of the genre, and view this more as professional viewers (wish that could exist!) than as the interested Boeotian that I am. Maybe there should be different levels of threads, starting from 0 for people like me who just want to analyse it as any movie or book regardless of the genre, to 3 for the highest geared on the genre mostly. I'm rambling, obviously, but hopefully you get my drift. Thank you for all these transcripts, I'll definitely miss them if I decide to skip the WW thread.  

[Abernathy]

If some of you are worried about the prospect of 2 diferent timelines (pretty much the most common theory among fans of WW as far as I understand), today I read about another theory , where we might be watching THREE diferent timelines!!!!

 

So, besides the William/Logan timeline and the MIB timeline, we would also have a 3rd timeline...previous to the William one, the timeline where we see Dolores and Bernard talking to each other, except that the man is not Bernard but ARNOLD, being Bernard a host built at his image, and that we see later on interacting with Ford and Theresa.

 

So in these interactions between Arnold and Dolores, he would be preparing Dolores to destroy the park, as Dolores confessed to Ford, that that was Arnold's objective.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Abernathy

[phoenyx]

A -lot- of questions have been asked regarding the Westworld timeline. It is clear that some events depicted are in the past, because they are seen as flashbacks (I will assume for the time being that none of those flashbacks are faked by the Westworld programmers). However, there has been a lot of animated discussion as to whether some events that the audience has been led to -think- are in the present are actually in the present. Lately, I've begun to think that perhaps some events that we think are in the past are actually in the -present-, and vice versa. Let me explain on that last point:

Many have noted that when Dolores is talking to someone we can't see. Many believe it is a voice in her head, something Ford has explained that some Androids did back in Arnold's day, at the behest of Arnold- Arnold had thought it could bootstrap conscious via the Bicameral Mind. Anyway, it seems that when Dolores either hears or speaks to this voice, others who were in the scene disappear. For a long time, I thought that if the creators of Westworld were trying to make it difficult to tell if they were mixing the past and the present, William and Logan would be from the past, and times when Dolores was alone would be in the present. But what if it were the other way around? What if all the times that Dolores was alone was, in fact, in the past, and the times when she's with William and Logan is in the present? 

[okerry]

OMG! Was that him? Was that The Gunslinger, down in the basement? In storage?

[Gobi]

50 minutes ago, okerry said:

OMG! Was that him? Was that The Gunslinger, down in the basement? In storage?

 

50 minutes ago, okerry said:

OMG! Was that him? Was that The Gunslinger, down in the basement? In storage?

That's what I thought.

[snowwhyte]

So Bernard discovers that there were five hosts on the old system who weren't transferred to the new system. He goes to the location and discovers host representations of Ford's two parents, his brother, his dog and young Ford. Does the dog count as a host? Is there still a missing host out there? Ford showed up rather conveniently. Is he number five? I might have missed something there. Also, the dog was not a greyhound. 

[okerry]

FWIW, I think the dog was a greyhound - in the first shot, of the dog walking around, it did look like one. Greyhounds that are a little older and not in racing trim have a more normal appearance and aren't so whip-thin as the ones on the track. The head gives them away, among other things.

[Gobi]

7 minutes ago, snowwhyte said:

So Bernard discovers that there were five hosts on the old system who weren't transferred to the new system. He goes to the location and discovers host representations of Ford's two parents, his brother, his dog and young Ford. Does the dog count as a host? Is there still a missing host out there? Ford showed up rather conveniently. Is he number five? I might have missed something there. Also, the dog was not a greyhound. 

I think the dog counts as a host. The staff would need to keep track of animal hosts just as much as human models.

[snowwhyte]

Ok, upon rewatch it was a greyhound.

[FlowerofCarnage]

How far into the future does this show take place because the clothes that young-Ford wears look to be from the early part of the 20th century?  

[Gobi]

8 hours ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

How far into the future does this show take place because the clothes that young-Ford wears look to be from the early part of the 20th century?  

In interviews, Nolan has said it takes place in the 21st Century, without giving a specific date. If it were set in, say, 2094, that would put the beginning of the park at about 2057. The dates could be moved up closer to our time. Ford mentioned that all diseases can be cured, so presumably people live  longer. Still, you have a good point, his clothes look too old. Maybe this is an idealized way that older Ford wishes things had looked? Or maybe Ford dressed them in Westworld clothes because that's what was available?

Edited November 8, 2016 by Gobi

[ennui]

On 11/7/2016 at 8:26 PM, FlowerofCarnage said:

How far into the future does this show take place because the clothes that young-Ford wears look to be from the early part of the 20th century?  

Do we know Ford's age? Maybe people do live longer ... 

[Madding crowd]

I'll be the lone wolf here and say I wish the story were more straightforward. I find plenty of interest in learning about the hosts and their awakening, the interactions with the guests, and have an interest in a few of the staff. i really get lost in shows with 500 layers of meaning where you cannot determine what is going on without reading producer notes, finding easter eggs and reading online forums for clues. To me that usually means lazy storytelling because in the end it is the character drama that is always the most interesting. I found the characters in Lost and in The Walking Dead way more intriguing than hidden meaning. YMMV. 

[ennui]

You're not alone. Sorry.  I suspect there's a wolf pack lurking.

Edited November 10, 2016 by ennui

[Abernathy]

On 06/11/2016 at 10:26 PM, phoenyx said:

A -lot- of questions have been asked regarding the Westworld timeline. It is clear that some events depicted are in the past, because they are seen as flashbacks (I will assume for the time being that none of those flashbacks are faked by the Westworld programmers). However, there has been a lot of animated discussion as to whether some events that the audience has been led to -think- are in the present are actually in the present. Lately, I've begun to think that perhaps some events that we think are in the past are actually in the -present-, and vice versa. Let me explain on that last point:

Many have noted that when Dolores is talking to someone we can't see. Many believe it is a voice in her head, something Ford has explained that some Androids did back in Arnold's day, at the behest of Arnold- Arnold had thought it could bootstrap conscious via the Bicameral Mind. Anyway, it seems that when Dolores either hears or speaks to this voice, others who were in the scene disappear. For a long time, I thought that if the creators of Westworld were trying to make it difficult to tell if they were mixing the past and the present, William and Logan would be from the past, and times when Dolores was alone would be in the present. But what if it were the other way around? What if all the times that Dolores was alone was, in fact, in the past, and the times when she's with William and Logan is in the present? 

And if that's so , where (when) would you place the MIB + Teddy?

oh another thing

Bernard Lowe is an anagram of Arnold Weber

[ennui]

53 minutes ago, Abernathy said:

Bernard Lowe is an anagram of Arnold Weber

Are we certain "Weber" is correct? 

[Abernathy]

1 hour ago, ennui said:

Are we certain "Weber" is correct? 

So far I think it's not confirmed "oficially"

[phoenyx]

16 hours ago, Abernathy said:

So far I think it's not confirmed "oficially"

I think this may be a nice way of putting that all we've got backing this theory is our imaginations ;-)

[jbrecken]

How long before Maeve tells Felix to find her daughter?

[arc]

My theory, which I guess doesn't have a sweet anagram backing it, is that Arnold's last name was Wyatt. Ford created Wyatt to hear voices from God, in the same episode where he explained the bicameral mind theory that Arnold pinned his hopes of host sentience on.

Separately, I've asked how these multimillionaires and billionaires are the people Ford says come to the park because they cannot exercise power in their real lives. Logan is a scion of wealth, and TMIB either a famous philanthropist or billionaire company owner. No, what I think of now when I think back to Ford's speech is that Ford values the park because he can exercise power in it. Like he said, he and Arnold were/are as gods in there. Ford rarely even uses tablets the way lower level techs do. He relies largely on gestures and voice control, secure in the knowledge that he designed and created everything and controls everything.

And finally, if Arnold really is still alive, or even just as a shadow living on in the code of his creations, I almost expect some bullshit deus ex machina in the final episode, because he literally would be a "god from the machine".

Edited November 14, 2016 by arc

[Gobi]

I've been wondering about Ford's plan. Suppose Westworld is on a different moon/planet, or an otherwise uninhabited island on earth. His plan may be to give the hosts sentience, then declare Westworld a sovereign nation with himself as leader. Perhaps even more than a leader, the new God of the hosts' religion. Remember, when he  first discussed his plan with Bernard, he was looking at the remains of a church. If he has uploaded his consciousness into a host, he may already be immortal.

[ennui]

On 11/6/2016 at 6:11 PM, okerry said:

OMG! Was that him? Was that The Gunslinger, down in the basement? In storage?

I was flipping through the channels last night, and there was a listing for the original Magnificent Seven, and it said "A man in black recruits others to help an oppressed village," or something like that. It would be interesting if the Man in Black turned out to be a good guy.

O/T, but I'm wondering if the costume for Yul Brynner in WW was based on his costume in Magnificent Seven. Anyone know?

ETA Asked and answered -- According to IMDB, "The robot that Yul Brynner portrays is an homage/spoof of his character Chris from The Magnificent Seven (1960) and wears the same costume."

Edited November 17, 2016 by ennui

[qtpye]

On 11/8/2016 at 7:28 AM, Gobi said:

How far into the future does this show take place because the clothes that young-Ford wears look to be from the early part of the 20th century?  

It would be so funny if young Ford was wearing a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles sweatshirt.

[WalterWhiteWalker]

Some of you might be aware that several subcultures of Native Americans in the southwestern desert of the USA/Mexico have a "Man in the Maze" myth.  You can see it on their pottery and other artifacts.

The analogies between this mythos and where we are in Westworld is highly promising.  From the myth of the Papagos (Desert People) from Southwest US, courtesy Wikipedia:

Quote

The world was made by Earth-maker out of the dirt and sweat which he scraped from his skin... the flat earth met the sky with a crash like that of falling rocks, and from the two was born Iitoi, the protector of Papagos. He had light hair and a beard. Iitoi and Earth-maker shaped and peopled the new world, and they were followed everywhere by Coyote, who came to life uncreated and began immediately to poke his nose into everything. In this new world there was a flood, and the three agreed before they took refuge that the one of them who should emerge first after the subsidence of the waters should be their leader and have the title of Elder Brother. It was Earth-maker, the creator, who came forth first, and Iitoi next, but Iitoi insisted on the title and took it. [] Iitoi "brought the people up like children" and taught them their arts, but in the end he became unkind and they killed him.... But Iitoi, though killed, had so much power that he came to life again. Then he invented war. He decided to sweep the earth of the people he had made. [] He needed an army and for this purpose he went underground and brought up the Papagos. [] They live in a land scattered with imposing ruins which belonged... to the Hohokum, "the people who are gone". [] Iitoi drove them, some to the north and some to the south... "Iitoi had a song for everything". Though his men did the fighting, Iitoi confirmed their efforts by singing the enemy into blindness and helplessness. [] Iitoi has retired from the world and lives, a little old man, in a mountain cave. Or, perhaps he has gone underground.

 

It seems to me that this all maps directly:

Earth-maker = Ford
I'itoi = Arnold/Bernard
Coyote = Man in Black

Here's a simple, direct translation:

"The world was made by Ford by the sweat of his brow.  
 Where the mountains met the sea, came forth Arnold to protect the hosts. 
 Ford and Arnold shaped and populated the Park with hosts.
 They were followed everywhere by the Man in Black, who was an uninvited guest dedicated to unraveling the Park's mysteries.
 Then there was a catastrophe, and the three of them agreed that there needed to be a single CEO.
 It was Ford, the creator, who came to understand the catastrophe first, and Arnold next.
 But Arnold insisted on being the CEO and took the title for himself.
 Arnold brought the hosts up like his children and taught them to become conscious, but in the end he became unkind and they killed him.
 Arnold had so much power that his own consciousness transcended death, and he came to life again, this time called Bernard.

 -- WE ARE HERE --

 Then Bernard invented war.  He decided to sweep the Park of the hosts he had made.  
 He needed an army and for this purpose he went underground and returned with the Desert People.
 They lived in a place scattered with debris that belonged to other hosts that have gone away.
 Bernard led them, some to the north and some to the south.
 Bernard could do anything with his programming skills.
 Though his men did the fighting, Bernard ensured their victory by reprogramming the hosts into blindness and helplessness.

 Now Bernard has retired from the world and lives, a little old man, in a mountain cave.
 Or perhaps he has gone back underground."

Open questions: Where did Arnold and the MiB come from?  What role does Ford play in the war to come?  Who are the "people who are gone"?

[Gobi]

18 minutes ago, WalterWhiteWalker said:

Some of you might be aware that several subcultures of Native Americans in the southwestern desert of the USA/Mexico have a "Man in the Maze" myth.  You can see it on their pottery and other artifacts.

The analogies between this mythos and where we are in Westworld is highly promising.  From the myth of the Papagos (Desert People) from Southwest US, courtesy Wikipedia:

 

It seems to me that this all maps directly:

Earth-maker = Ford
I'itoi = Arnold/Bernard
Coyote = Man in Black

Here's a simple, direct translation:

"The world was made by Ford by the sweat of his brow.  
 Where the mountains met the sea, came forth Arnold to protect the hosts. 
 Ford and Arnold shaped and populated the Park with hosts.
 They were followed everywhere by the Man in Black, who was an uninvited guest dedicated to unraveling the Park's mysteries.
 Then there was a catastrophe, and the three of them agreed that there needed to be a single CEO.
 It was Ford, the creator, who came to understand the catastrophe first, and Arnold next.
 But Arnold insisted on being the CEO and took the title for himself.
 Arnold brought the hosts up like his children and taught them to become conscious, but in the end he became unkind and they killed him.
 Arnold had so much power that his own consciousness transcended death, and he came to life again, this time called Bernard.

 -- WE ARE HERE --

 Then Bernard invented war.  He decided to sweep the Park of the hosts he had made.  
 He needed an army and for this purpose he went underground and returned with the Desert People.
 They lived in a place scattered with debris that belonged to other hosts that have gone away.
 Bernard led them, some to the north and some to the south.
 Bernard could do anything with his programming skills.
 Though his men did the fighting, Bernard ensured their victory by reprogramming the hosts into blindness and helplessness.

 Now Bernard has retired from the world and lives, a little old man, in a mountain cave.
 Or perhaps he has gone back underground."

Open questions: Where did Arnold and the MiB come from?  What role does Ford play in the war to come?  Who are the "people who are gone"?

Great post! The people who are gone could be the hosts in cold storage underground or the  underground hosts could be the Desert People.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Gobi