Sex And The City - General Discussion

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Now Carrie is preventing Charlotte from flirting with guys at the casino who want to buy her a drink.  She is almost as bad to her here as she is in "Ring a Ding Ding".  I think it's actually making me angrier because we haven't dissected this one to death.  God, Carrie is such a selfish asshole here.  And Charlotte tries to call her out on it and Carrie just so smug and satisfied that she's completely right.  Then Carrie ditches CHARLOTTE to get saltwater taffy.  How could the writers possibly think that anyone would like this or relate to this unless they were a diagnosed narcissist?  

Yeah I didn’t get that at all. Seemed like such poor writing to me. Carrie was perfectly happy to have men paying attention to her when she was “the hot one”, but let someone flirt with Charlotte and it’s ruining their trip??

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's disgusting.  The attention has to be on Carrie, even when it's Charlotte's birthday?  What is wrong with her?  And I think Carrie set up this trip even though Charlotte didn't want it.  that's nice and all, but why treat her like garbage once she's there?

What's pot writing?

[Scarlett45]

20 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's disgusting.  The attention has to be on Carrie, even when it's Charlotte's birthday?  What is wrong with her?  And I think Carrie set up this trip even though Charlotte didn't want it.  that's nice and all, but why treat her like garbage once she's there?

What's pot writing?

Auto correct on my phone- I meant “poor writing”. 😀

I did forget it was Charlotte’s birthday during that episode. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yeah it's a really bad episode, really really bad.  Potentially the worst of the series.

It's Charlotte's birthday.

Casino guys insult Charlotte to her face, Carrie beams at them and shrieks bloody murder when she wins money.

Two guys hit on Charlotte and offer to buy her a drink.  Carrie says No and drags her away to go back to the hotel.

On the way back to the hotel, Charlotte is upset that Carrie wouldn't let her flirt.  Carrie basically says it's stupid and pointless.  (Carrie is smiling smugly throughout this whole scene while Charlotte is practically CRYING, which really makes me think that the writers didn't realize how heartless she looks.  They probably think that she looks whimsical and cool.) 

Carrie then ditches Charlotte on the way back to the hotel to buy saltwater taffy.  "You're probably getting cold.  I'm going to go buy saltwater taffy.  Catch you back at the hotel."  What??????????????  Why didn't she leave Charlotte at the casino to let her have her fun then?

I've watched it several times and I don't get what the writers were thinking!  Why would they do this?!  This is the main character!  

Here's the transcript if anyone is interested

https://www.satctranscripts.com/2008/08/sex-and-city-season-5-episode-3.html#.YP9oHZNKgyk

Edited July 27, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[buttersister]

I thought pot writing was the explanation for how bad it is. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yeah, that's what I wasn't sure about.  It sounded funny but I didn't want to assume 😁

[buttersister]

I thought I was being kind to the writer(s).

Edited July 27, 2021 by buttersister

[T Summer]

If you watch these reruns enough, you learn when all Carrie's screams are coming. I grab for the remote and hit that mute button with lightening speed!

(mouse in the kitchen when she has Petrosvsky over)

 

 

[ifionlyknew]

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've watched it several times and I don't get what the writers were thinking!  Why would they do this?!  This is the main character!  

I think the writers saw Carrie very differently than most viewers saw her.  And it didn't help that SJP was also an executive producer which gave her a lot of input.

I don't know if they changed writers after season 3 but Carrie got a lot more annoying.  The other women all seemed to have some character development but Carrie became much more selfish and just all around annoying.  And on a completely shallow note as @Ms Blue Jay mentioned above she cut her hair. I was not a fan of the short hair.  

Regarding the Atlantic City trip that whole episode just seemed odd to me.   If they had wanted to do a girl's trip why not go to a spa.  Which I'm sure Miranda would have loved having just delivered a baby recently.  

12 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The attention has to be on Carrie, even when it's Charlotte's birthday? 

This happened all the time.  And someone correct me if I am wrong but we only saw Carrie and Charlotte celebrate birthdays.  And of course Charlotte's birthday episode ends up focusing on Carrie.  

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

  And someone correct me if I am wrong but we only saw Carrie and Charlotte celebrate birthdays.

At the end of the first movie they are celebrating Samantha’s 50th.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

I don't know if they changed writers after season 3 but Carrie got a lot more annoying.  The other women all seemed to have some character development but Carrie became much more selfish and just all around annoying.  And on a completely shallow note as @Ms Blue Jay mentioned above she cut her hair. I was not a fan of the short hair.  

I will say she looked FANTASTIC working at Vogue.  I assume those were Vivienne Westwood suits.  She was really dressed perfectly.  

5 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Regarding the Atlantic City trip that whole episode just seemed odd to me.   If they had wanted to do a girl's trip why not go to a spa.  Which I'm sure Miranda would have loved having just delivered a baby recently.  

So you're totally right, but even I had to read the script after just seeing the episode because I forgot.  Samantha was already going to Atlantic City with Richard on his private jet, so Carrie glommed onto their trip for Charlotte's birthday.

The whole thing was just completely thoughtless.  If Carrie did any real planning, she'd know when Sam would be available.  Atlantic City really doesn't seem like Charlotte's vibe, and when Charlotte was having a bad time, Carrie did not give a fuck at all.

It was just a bad, bad, bad episode.  And yes, Carrie's hair looked awful!

Edited July 27, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[ifionlyknew]

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I will say she looked FANTASTIC working at Vogue.  I assume those were Vivienne Westwood suits.  She was really dressed perfectly.  

You are right.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/68539225555733964/

[Hiyo]

The Atlantic City episode wasn't the best, but for me, I wouldn't rank it as the worst, as there are other episodes I wouldn't re-watch at all, but at least I can sit through this episode.

Also, 2 things I liked about the episode:

1) It was kinda fun to see Charlotte go for the vamp look (I thought she looked great) for an episode.

2) The group picture at the end...ah, remember when you actually had to use a camera, and not a phone, to document the fun times you with your friends? Plus, I liked how as bad as the trip ended up being,they all could laugh about it in the end and realized what matters most is being with your friends, regardless of how the trip ends up.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Hiyo

[Ms Blue Jay]

A photo of Charlotte on her birthday where her eyes aren't even open really captures this show doesn't it

3 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

You are right.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/68539225555733964/

Yes and there is also a GORGEOUS grey almost kimono-like suit she wore but it's so hard to find pictures.  Then also this brown patterned dress.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, Hiyo said:

It was kinda fun to see Charlotte go for the vamp look (I thought she looked great) for an episode.

I thought she looked great. Although in her voiceover Carrie called her slutty.

 

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Grey Suit

Edited July 27, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Hiyo said:

The Atlantic City episode wasn't the best, but for me, I wouldn't rank it as the worst, as there are other episodes I wouldn't re-watch at all, but at least I can sit through this episode.

Also, 2 things I liked about the episode:

1) It was kinda fun to see Charlotte go for the vamp look (I thought she looked great) for an episode.

2) The group picture at the end...ah, remember when you actually had to use a camera, and not a phone, to document the fun times you with your friends? Plus, I liked how as bad as the trip ended up being,they all could laugh about it in the end and realized what matters most is being with your friends, regardless of how the trip ends up.

Charlotte looked great. Who cares if it is a bit of a risque outfit for her? She is a grown-ass woman who can dress however the hell she pleases.

Carrie acted like there was a law that the only 2 in the group who could dress sexy were her and Samantha. This was probably because Samantha was "older" and not competition for Carrie. I mean Big did turn her down, right.

4 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

I think the writers saw Carrie very differently than most viewers saw her.  And it didn't help that SJP was also an executive producer which gave her a lot of input.

I don't know if they changed writers after season 3 but Carrie got a lot more annoying.  The other women all seemed to have some character development but Carrie became much more selfish and just all around annoying.  And on a completely shallow note as @Ms Blue Jay mentioned above she cut her hair. I was not a fan of the short hair.  

Regarding the Atlantic City trip that whole episode just seemed odd to me.   If they had wanted to do a girl's trip why not go to a spa.  Which I'm sure Miranda would have loved having just delivered a baby recently.  

This happened all the time.  And someone correct me if I am wrong but we only saw Carrie and Charlotte celebrate birthdays.  And of course Charlotte's birthday episode ends up focusing on Carrie.  

Charlotte actually had a lot of growth. Her first marriage to the perfect guy did not work out so she married a great guy who was "not her type" and lived happily ever after.

She always wanted a child but had fertility issues. Instead of drowning in her sorrow, she adopted a lovely baby girl.

Heck, even Charlotte's wedding was a disaster.

The thing is that she realized that her prejudices were holding her down and she changed herself for the better.

In contrast, Carrie got everything she ever wanted (including her dream closet) despite actually being a shrieky little nitwit that spent all her money on shoes.

Carrie actually devolved. She was a quirky-cool down to earth woman at the beginning of the series and a juvenile 12-year-old at the end.

 

 

[ifionlyknew]

3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

In contrast, Carrie got everything she ever wanted (including her dream closet) despite actually being a shrieky little nitwit that spent all her money on shoes.

Even getting everything she wanted still wasn't enough.  Big wanted to put a TV in their bedroom. Oh the  horror.

5 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Carrie actually devolved. She was a quirky-cool down to earth woman at the beginning of the series and a juvenile 12-year-old at the end.

Honestly if you only read about the character and not watched the character you would think it was two different people.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

28 minutes ago, qtpye said:

In contrast, Carrie got everything she ever wanted (including her dream closet) despite actually being a shrieky little nitwit that spent all her money on shoes.

Carrie actually devolved. She was a quirky-cool down to earth woman at the beginning of the series and a juvenile 12-year-old at the end.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[BlueMoon81]

On 7/26/2021 at 4:11 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I really like Miranda and Sam's dynamic.  I love how they give each other "looks" when the others are being too "whatever".  I think they really "get" each other.  Until Miranda had a baby!

Miranda/Sam are my favorite friendship dynamic on the show. I love how they shoot straight with each other with absolutely zero judgment. And most times, they can just say a 3 or 4 word phrase to each other and "get it" (like when Miranda informs the girls she's pregnant via Steve and Sam replies "Mercy Fuck??" and Miranda just nods 😂) 

On 7/26/2021 at 5:18 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Now Carrie is preventing Charlotte from flirting with guys at the casino who want to buy her a drink.  She is almost as bad to her here as she is in "Ring a Ding Ding".  I think it's actually making me angrier because we haven't dissected this one to death.  God, Carrie is such a selfish asshole here.  And Charlotte tries to call her out on it and Carrie just so smug and satisfied that she's completely right.  Then Carrie ditches CHARLOTTE to get saltwater taffy.  How could the writers possibly think that anyone would like this or relate to this unless they were a diagnosed narcissist?  

I HATE that Atlantic City episode, specifically because Carrie is SO INTOLERABLE in it. Charlotte should've knocked Carrie on her ass at some point during that vacation

22 hours ago, T Summer said:

If you watch these reruns enough, you learn when all Carrie's screams are coming. I grab for the remote and hit that mute button with lightening speed!

(mouse in the kitchen when she has Petrosvsky over)

 

 

Those screams didn't start until Season 3 or 4 I believe, which was when SJP's Exec Producer role behind the scenes was really being felt on the show. She must've thought those screeches were quirky and cute...but it was truly annoying in my opinion 

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

In contrast, Carrie got everything she ever wanted (including her dream closet) despite actually being a shrieky little nitwit that spent all her money on shoes.

Carrie actually devolved. She was a quirky-cool down to earth woman at the beginning of the series and a juvenile 12-year-old at the end.

THIS precisely describes why Carrie has ALWAYS been my least favorite character. She devolves during the series. I think if they hadn't given SJP behind the scenes power as Exec Producer, the writers would've had the freedom to write the character FAR BETTER than they did 

[BlueMoon81]

On 7/25/2021 at 9:31 AM, Scarlett45 said:

None of the girls were portrayed as being racist or bigoted, but they lived in pretty racially isolated worlds. The person that probably would’ve interacted most with POC would be Miranda with co-workers (and they would’ve been work friends at best) and Samantha through her PR network. Samantha likely would’ve had the most experience with men of different races just because she got with a LOT of men. But she wasn’t dating them, she was just sleeping with them, which would’ve been an optics problem too.

I am thinking of her interaction with DeShawn(?) in Season 3.  The actor was cute but I have problems with that storyline.

@Ms Blue Jay

That Chivon/Sam episode pissed me off more than any other on the show. It did when I watched it in 2000/2001 and it still does today. I loved Sam/Chivon's chemistry, and I LOVED how he wasn't intimidated by Sam's independence or sexuality. Sam even asked him to spend the day at her place with her (which she NEVER did). What I HATED was how Carrie made that CRINGEWORTHY "Talk about Affirmative Action" line when Sam and Chivon were flirting, Charlotte fetishizing Chivon when Sam was originally going to say he had a big HEART, etc. This was 2000/2001 in NYC, and the girls were acting like it was 1930s Tennessee or something. As a Black fan of the show, it was very insulting to watch. I remember when Season 6 was airing and Blair Underwood came on the show...I distinctly thought to myself "if they do Blair Underwood like they did Chivon...I'm done watching the show." The way the girls rarely encountered non-white people IN NEW YORK CITY was ridiculous (then and now)

On 7/25/2021 at 11:09 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

 

Chivon?

No, you're totally right, and your memory is correct, but this is the fault of the writers/casting/producers too, who had a very very narrow view of New York, race, and men.  It's funny that supposedly so many people in charge of SATC were gay, so they were openminded about sexuality (sort of) but god forbid they be openminded about race!  Both Charlotte and Carrie had gay best friends, but best friends who weren't white, heavens forfend!

And whenever the girls seemed to encounter non-white people, it was in service roles (the Pakastani bus boy who kissed Sam when her date flaked on her, the Asian maid of the guy Sam was dating, the Black woman who was Carrie's chauffeur from her Book Party, etc). I'm not saying the show was intentionally racist, but you could tell it was written, produced and directed by an all-white behind the scenes crew 

[Ms Blue Jay]

34 minutes ago, BlueMoon81 said:

Miranda/Sam are my favorite friendship dynamic on the show. I love how they shoot straight with each other with absolutely zero judgment. And most times, they can just say a 3 or 4 word phrase to each other and "get it" (like when Miranda informs the girls she's pregnant via Steve and Sam replies "Mercy Fuck??" and Miranda just nods 😂) 

Do you remember when Sam has to describe what teabagging is?  Of course Carrie and Charlotte are grossed out, but Miranda is full of wonder.  "Why do they call it teabagging?  Oh... because.... they hang... and the dipping."  Miranda is never horrified by what Samantha is talking about, she takes it as matter of fact or educational, she's just there learning and absorbing 😄

The writers were so genius to have these two characters - women who "got" each other EXTREMELY easily yet were in their own ways very particular and different.  It's like why I love the Charlotte/Anthony friendship but those two are even more different.  

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

That Chivon/Sam episode pissed me off more than any other on the show. It did when I watched it in 2000/2001 and it still does today. I loved Sam/Chivon's chemistry, and I LOVED how he wasn't intimidated by Sam's independence or sexuality. Sam even asked him to spend the day at her place with her (which she NEVER did). What I HATED was how Carrie made that CRINGEWORTHY "Talk about Affirmative Action" line when Sam and Chivon were flirting, Charlotte fetishizing Chivon when Sam was originally going to say he had a big HEART, etc. This was 2000/2001 in NYC, and the girls were acting like it was 1930s Tennessee or something. As a Black fan of the show, it was very insulting to watch. I remember when Season 6 was airing and Blair Underwood came on the show...I distinctly thought to myself "if they do Blair Underwood like they did Chivon...I'm done watching the show." The way the girls rarely encountered non-white people IN NEW YORK CITY was ridiculous (then and now)

And whenever the girls seemed to encounter non-white people, it was in service roles (the Pakastani bus boy who kissed Sam when her date flaked on her, the Asian maid of the guy Sam was dating, the Black woman who was Carrie's chauffeur from her Book Party, etc). I'm not saying the show was intentionally racist, but you could tell it was written, produced and directed by an all-white behind the scenes crew 

Yes I agree with you. 

[ifionlyknew]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The writers were so genius to have these two characters - women who "got" each other EXTREMELY easily yet were in their own ways very particular and different. 

Samantha and Miranda were the two women identified with the most.  They saw the world for what it was and made the best of it.  I don't ever remember the two of them having any friction between them.  They also never judged each other. Miranda sometimes told someone what they didn't want to hear but it was because she thought they needed to hear it.  

We saw Miranda being protective of Charlotte. We saw Charlotte reaching out to Samantha a couple times after having little spats.  We saw Charlotte rally the girls to be there for Miranda after her died. We saw Samantha watch Brady so Miranda could take her salon appt.   I'm sure Carrie was there for  her friends too but honestly the only time I'm remembering is the first movie when she went to Miranda's place on New Year's Eve.  

9 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

the Asian maid of the guy Sam was dating,

That whole thing was cringe worthy. I don't think you could do that storyline today.

9 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

As a Black fan of the show, it was very insulting to watch.

I am a white woman and I also felt that storyline was problematic. Not Samantha and Chivon dating but how the others reacted to it.  Almost thirty years ago I was dating a black man and we had a child.  If any of my friends had said the things Carrie and Charlotte said I would have not found it amusing.   

9 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

Blair Underwood came on the show...I distinctly thought to myself "if they do Blair Underwood like they did Chivon...I'm done watching the show."

The writers must have learned from how badly they wrote the Chivon storyline because I don't remember it even being mentioned that Robert was black. 

9 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

I think if they hadn't given SJP behind the scenes power as Exec Producer, the writers would've had the freedom to write the character FAR BETTER than they did 

I would have to check the timeline but it does seem like the writing for Carrie (and also some of her acting choices) got worse when she became EP.

[Jillybean]

On 7/26/2021 at 4:40 PM, ifionlyknew said:

I don't think it was ever mentioned how Miranda and Charlotte came into Carrie's life.

I think at some point it's mentioned that Carrie and Miranda met in a dressing room and Miranda was crying. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Jillybean

[BlueMoon81]

12 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Do you remember when Sam has to describe what teabagging is?  Of course Carrie and Charlotte are grossed out, but Miranda is full of wonder.  "Why do they call it teabagging?  Oh... because.... they hang... and the dipping."  Miranda is never horrified by what Samantha is talking about, she takes it as matter of fact or educational, she's just there learning and absorbing 😄

The writers were so genius to have these two characters - women who "got" each other EXTREMELY easily yet were in their own ways very particular and different.  It's like why I love the Charlotte/Anthony friendship but those two are even more different.  

 

That is one of my most FAVORITE scenes! Miranda re-enacting the dipping with her hands, Sam tasting her pudding afterwards and saying "Mmm Delicious" 😂

I also love when Sam, Miranda and Carrie are at Steve's bar opening, and Sam is talking about how she threw her back out using a strap-on with Maria...and Miranda wants to know how it works 😂

[Hiyo]

Quote

I think at some point it's mentioned that Carrie and Miranda met in a dressing room and Miranda was crying. 

It was mentioned in the opening of the second movie.

Carrie moved to Manhattan in 1986. She met Charlotte in 1987 and Miranda in 1989. They don't say when she met Samantha, just where.

The opening was the best thing about the second movie.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

   I'm sure Carrie was there for  her friends too but honestly the only time I'm remembering is the first movie when she went to Miranda's place on New Year's Eve.  

You know I hate to defend Carrie, but she had her moments

- Miranda's funeral, even though I think the whole scene was a little......... I don't know.
- after Miranda threw her back out, I think it's nice that Carrie visited the next day even with "Bullshit Bagels"
- Carrie being the first/only person that Miranda trusted with her plans to have an abortion (until she told Sam I think)
- Carrie being the first/only person that Sam wanted to disclose her cancer status to (until telling Charlotte) 
- Charlotte briefly considering abandoning her wedding to Trey, Carrie was all for helping her and wasn't judgmental 

etc.

That's why I kind of roll my eyes at the Season 5 storyline of Miranda wanting Carrie to the godmother and be there for Brady's birth.  Carrie was so WHATEVER about the whole thing, just making cracks and not caring.  Then again, Miranda kind of wanted an unsentimental asshole to be that person, so, it worked the way she wanted.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Samantha and Miranda were the two women identified with the most.  They saw the world for what it was and made the best of it.  I don't ever remember the two of them having any friction between them.  They also never judged each other. Miranda sometimes told someone what they didn't want to hear but it was because she thought they needed to hear it.  

The only "tension" I can think of offhand is 1) when Charlotte and Sam were REALLY fighting and Miranda and Carrie didn't want to be involved and 2) when Samantha couldn't handle Miranda being a mother.  I felt bad for Miranda because she was so like Samantha in this department and didn't want to be a mother either, it just all kind of "happened" to her but eventually she came around to the role.

[qtpye]

I was thinking of something, yesterday.

When this show was on it was considered default that everyone, who was not barred by homophobic laws, would eventually get married.

I think (not sure) 92% of all people got married back then even though there were a lot of divorces.

SATC and Bridgette Jones' Diary talked about how single women in their 30's were an anomaly that society did not know what to do about.

I think nowadays it is much more common for people to get married much later or never marry at all.

I know a lot of single women in their 30's and they are really living their best lives...it is no longer considered weird, but some of them get a lot of harassment from their families about not being married.

I know for me, a 37-year-old who mostly dated Gen X men, the problem was twofold.

These men did not have the confidence, responsibility, or financial stability to support a family. This was fine with me because I had been working since I was 19 and always assumed that I would be working after I got married and had kids.

The problem was while these men were perfectly happy for me to contribute my earnings to a joint bank account, they still expected me to dote on them and take almost all the responsibility for the household like I was a housewife.

Marriage would triple my workload yet they gained a financial partner, maid, babysitter, personal assistant, and a regular outlet for sex.

I am hoping that younger men are better at this type of stuff than the generation that I dated.

I did not have Carrie's knack for attracting mega-billionaires, lol.

 

[RealHousewife]

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I was thinking of something, yesterday.

When this show was on it was considered default that everyone, who was not barred by homophobic laws, would eventually get married.

I think (not sure) 92% of all people got married back then even though there were a lot of divorces.

SATC and Bridgette Jones' Diary talked about how single women in their 30's were an anomaly that society did not know what to do about.

I think nowadays it is much more common for people to get married much later or never marry at all.

I know a lot of single women in their 30's and they are really living their best lives...it is no longer considered weird, but some of them get a lot of harassment from their families about not being married.

I know for me, a 37-year-old who mostly dated Gen X men, the problem was twofold.

These men did not have the confidence, responsibility, or financial stability to support a family. This was fine with me because I had been working since I was 19 and always assumed that I would be working after I got married and had kids.

The problem was while these men were perfectly happy for me to contribute my earnings to a joint bank account, they still expected me to dote on them and take almost all the responsibility for the household like I was a housewife.

Marriage would triple my workload yet they gained a financial partner, maid, babysitter, personal assistant, and a regular outlet for sex.

I am hoping that younger men are better at this type of stuff than the generation that I dated.

I did not have Carrie's knack for attracting mega-billionaires, lol.

 

Another 30-something lady here and your post is right on! The show really was groundbreaking for its time. Yes, a lot of the writing was terrible, and I wish they handled race better on the show. But SATC is still so special to me because it showed 30-something + ladies having a blast. I don't know if there was a show similar to it at all before then. Single folks are often portrayed as these sad lonely cat ladies. Not that I never got lonely, but I really was having so much fun prior to the pandemic. I got to do things I didn't have the opportunity for when I was younger. I'd go to dance classes after work. I had plans to travel more this year. My evenings were free for me to do whatever I wanted. My childhood and 20s weren't the greatest. My 30s I really started living. I had horrible anxiety when I was younger that took over my life. I know that's such a millennial thing to say, but it's true.

While I think marriage is wonderful, I'm really okay. I also think adoption is so beautiful, so I'm not going to rush into something just to guarantee I have biological kids. It's just so annoying dealing with people commenting on my life. 

So true about the men! Honestly, this is why at a certain point I did start caring a bit about what a man did for a living. There are so many men who like for a woman to spend money trying to look beautiful and to take on the role of housewife, while still wanting a woman to contribute equally financially. It's not at all fair. Do your own cooking and baking. 

I hope so too. Also, I'm down for dating a little bit younger than myself. My experience with younger guys is that some of them are indeed more fair. I started being more open to them when I had a harder time finding childfree men around my own age and older. My only issues with younger guys is not being sure they've gotten all the playing around out of their system and not wanting to compete with younger women. 

I don't either! I am able to attract "regular" rich men, and that's good enough for me. Honestly, a regular hardworking guy is fine too, so long as he doesn't want me as his cook, maid, etc. If he wants a traditional type of woman, then he better be a traditional kind of man.

[ifionlyknew]

54 minutes ago, qtpye said:

When this show was on it was considered default that everyone, who was not barred by homophobic laws, would eventually get married.

Yes. It was also assumed they would want to get married. That even if they weren't married they wanted to be.  Samantha was the outlier.  Carrie might not have wanted to marry Aidan but she did want to marry Big.   Even Miranda I think saw herself at some point getting married.  And we all know Charlotte was planning her wedding since kindergarten. 

When I originally watched the show I was happy each woman had ended up happily coupled. Even happy for Miranda even though I didn't like Steve.  But now that I am older and happily single I recognize the show while once about dating had become a show about couples.  I liked it better when they all weren't in serious relationships.  

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

Single folks are often portrayed as these sad lonely cat ladies

This is true. SATC was the first show (I think) that showed single women in their 30s who had active fulfilled lives.  And then they took a turn and it became all about the women and their men.

 

I just remembered Living Single.  But that show was more like Friends.

Edited July 28, 2021 by ifionlyknew

[Ms Blue Jay]

Someone was asking about the cost of Sam's PR services:

From "Cover Girl" where Carrie has to decide on a cover for her book.

Quote

S: Stop. Talk to me. This is what I do. How do you see yourself on the cover?
C: You know, like a writer who somehow happened to have wound up on her book cover, Iooking smart, sexy, and properly airbrushed.
S: I can help you with that. I'll talk to the publishers. When's the photo shoot?
C: It's next Thursday, but I can't afford you.
S: True, my PR services are pricey. It'll cost you two martinis and a lunch.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm now watching "Plus One is the Loneliest Number."  So Season 5 isn't total trash.  I'm watching where Carrie meets Berger for the first time and I am GLUED to this.  Now the show's gonna get good again!

This is me:  

Charlotte finally finds a guy who's totally okay with her apartment and Bunny comes and LETS HERSELF IN TO SPY ON HER 🤬

Edited July 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

I still think Nina Katz is awful - she gossips about Carrie and Aidan to both one of her girlfriends and ANOTHER one who works at Vogue - but watching Miranda and Samantha reject Carrie's pleas to talk about it because they both have to deal with Brady screaming are filling me with glee 😄

Why didn't Charlotte try to date the hot divorce lawyer after switching from him to Harry?  LOL.  She was so attracted to him!

 

..... OH MY GOD NOW CARRIE HARASSING STEVE ABOUT IT 😄😄. SHE RAN OUT OF FRIENDS TO BITCH TO AND WENT TO THEIR EX-LOVERS 😁

I like Steve much better when he's not with Miranda.  Oh my god, Steve said that Nina also gossiped to STEVE ABOUT CARRIE!!!!  (And we know she gossiped to Heather Graham too!)

OMG, Carrie's blue Birkin!  Life is not fair!

Edited July 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[ifionlyknew]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

OMG, Carrie's blue Birkin!  Life is not fair!

So Carrie has a Birkin a year after Samantha threw out Lucy Liu's name to try and get one.   Did she buy one with her book advance? Did Hermes give her one because she is Carrie Bradshaw?

[Hiyo]

Shouldn't that money have gone to paying back Charlotte? I mean dang, how much money did she make off that book...

Edited July 29, 2021 by Hiyo

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 Oh my god, Steve said that Nina also gossiped to STEVE ABOUT CARRIE!!!!  (And we know she gossiped to Heather Graham too!)

In fairness Steve was Aidan’s friend and knew how much she hurt him, so even if Nina did talk about Carrie with him, it was probably nothing that Steve hadn’t already heard from Aidan.

Still don’t feel sorry for Carrie. Just grow up and stop obsessing about everyone who doesn’t like you. 

[ifionlyknew]

39 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Still don’t feel sorry for Carrie. Just grow up and stop obsessing about everyone who doesn’t like you. 

I thought it was ridiculous for Carrie to even care what Nina Katz thought of her.  I understand she didn't like Nina telling other people about her but hey that is life.  And we were to assume Carrie was a (minor) celeb in NYC so I get why Nina probably thought hey this is good gossip.  Unless Nina was exaggerating or embellishing what she was telling people was what Aidan told her which I assume was the truth.  Yes there are two sides to every story but we saw it play out onscreen and Carrie didn't have the best track record with how she treated Aidan.

But Carrie trying to get Nina Katz to understand pales in comparison to Carrie wanting to talk to Natasha.   You have sex with another woman's husband in their bed you should hang your head in shame any time you hear her name let alone want to talk to her.  Natasha handled things with a lot more class than I would have.

[Spartan Girl]

25 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

But Carrie trying to get Nina Katz to understand pales in comparison to Carrie wanting to talk to Natasha.   You have sex with another woman's husband in their bed you should hang your head in shame any time you hear her name let alone want to talk to her.  Natasha handled things with a lot more class than I would have.

Also hated how Samantha got so indignant of Natasha’s friend giving her the stink-eye. Uh, you guys would do the exact same thing to someone who wronged Carrie! That’s what any good friend would do. 

But back to the Nina Katz episode, it was pretty refreshing that Samantha and Miranda finally took a break from being Carrie’s enablers and told her they were too busy to listen to her whine about Nina.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yeah, I still hate Nina Katz!

Now I'm watching Harry hit on Charlotte!!!!

THIS IS DAMN GOOD TELEVISION!!!  😁😆

I feel the way Harry does about Charlotte.  She is a fucking knockout!

 

Contrary to an article I read recently,  Carrie DOES call Big "Mr. Big" to his face, albeit inadvertently.  Carrie does a reading of her book and discusses "Mr. Big" and then he shows up to the reading and listens and even asks a question about Big.  Cute.  I'm actually surprised he was so blase with all of their personal stuff out there for people to read - even if she disguised his name.  

I don't love Carrie's short hair, but I think she looks really hot in "I love a Charade".  It's sweet to see how much Miranda and Carrie like Harry at this wedding.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Scarlett45]

On 7/28/2021 at 2:23 PM, qtpye said:

I was thinking of something, yesterday.

When this show was on it was considered default that everyone, who was not barred by homophobic laws, would eventually get married.

I think (not sure) 92% of all people got married back then even though there were a lot of divorces.

SATC and Bridgette Jones' Diary talked about how single women in their 30's were an anomaly that society did not know what to do about.

I think nowadays it is much more common for people to get married much later or never marry at all.

I know a lot of single women in their 30's and they are really living their best lives...it is no longer considered weird, but some of them get a lot of harassment from their families about not being married.

I know for me, a 37-year-old who mostly dated Gen X men, the problem was twofold.

These men did not have the confidence, responsibility, or financial stability to support a family. This was fine with me because I had been working since I was 19 and always assumed that I would be working after I got married and had kids.

The problem was while these men were perfectly happy for me to contribute my earnings to a joint bank account, they still expected me to dote on them and take almost all the responsibility for the household like I was a housewife.

Marriage would triple my workload yet they gained a financial partner, maid, babysitter, personal assistant, and a regular outlet for sex.

I am hoping that younger men are better at this type of stuff than the generation that I dated.

I did not have Carrie's knack for attracting mega-billionaires, lol.

 

This is true, I have said similar things in this thread. Marriage just doesn't have the same economic and social benefit it does to women that it did even 30yrs ago. Now the emotional benefit may still be the same, but thats very much an individual thing. 

A big misstep of 2nd wave feminism was that "women and girls can be and do anything they want"(the unsaid message) "thus men do not have to do much because the women will do it". Given that Samantha did not have the emotional needs of a romantic partner/marriage, she didnt get it. I think Miranda married Steve because she decided to have Brady and wanted to co-parent with him. Had Miranda not been heterosexual (where partnered sex could lead to pregnancy) or had not conceived Brady, I do not think she and Steve would have ended up together.

On 7/29/2021 at 10:28 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

don't love Carrie's short hair, but I think she looks really hot in "I love a Charade".  It's sweet to see how much Miranda and Carrie like Harry at this wedding.

She did look really pretty here.

[ifionlyknew]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Steve because she decided to have Brady and wanted to co-parent with him.

Yes. I think Miranda thought her life would get easier if she was married.  Didn't seem to work out that way though.

 

[Scarlett45]

41 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Yes. I think Miranda thought her life would get easier if she was married.  Didn't seem to work out that way though.

 

I think Steve was an involved Dad and did his share of childcare, so having him there in that respect was worth it, but the emotional work of being married was a lot on Miranda. 
 

Not that I couldn’t see them trying to work it out, but with no Brady she wouldn’t have tried. I think that happens with a lot of long term relationships. 

[ifionlyknew]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Not that I couldn’t see them trying to work it out, but with no Brady she wouldn’t have tried. I think that happens with a lot of long term relationships. 

I don't think Miranda thought Steve was who she was going to be forever.  Even after Brady I don't think she thought that. I will forever be flummoxed why she chose Steve over Robert. I mean yeah I know Brady and all that but still..........

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I don't think Miranda thought Steve was who she was going to be forever.  Even after Brady I don't think she thought that. I will forever be flummoxed why she chose Steve over Robert. I mean yeah I know Brady and all that but still..........

I think she was familiar with Steve, he was emotionally safe in a way Robert as not (they just had not been together long enough to establish any real intimacy). I think the writers wanted Miranda married at the end of the series, and Steve as a consistent regular was a better choice than Robert.

[RealHousewife]

14 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Why didn't Charlotte try to date the hot divorce lawyer after switching from him to Harry?  LOL.  She was so attracted to him!

As pushy as Charlotte was in her relationships with Harry and Trey, I don't know that she'd ever make the first move. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

27 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

As pushy as Charlotte was in her relationships with Harry and Trey, I don't know that she'd ever make the first move. 

She acted so funny with the hot lawyer.  She should have asked him out.  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

This is true, I have said similar things in this thread. Marriage just doesn't have the same economic and social benefit it does to women that it did even 30yrs ago. Now the emotional benefit may still be the same, but thats very much an individual thing. 

A big misstep of 2nd wave feminism was that "women and girls can be and do anything they want"(the unsaid message) "thus men do not have to do much because the women will do it". Given that Samantha did not have the emotional needs of a romantic partner/marriage, she didnt get it. I think Miranda married Steve because she decided to have Brady and wanted to co-parent with him. Had Miranda not been heterosexual (where partnered sex could lead to pregnancy) or had not conceived Brady, I do not think she and Steve would not have ended up together.

She did look really pretty here.

Yeah, feminism was saying:

"I can bring home the bacon"

"Fry it up in a Pan"

"...and never let him forget that he's a man"

So...what the hell is being done for the woman in this scenario beyond the sheer joy of being responsible for literally everything?

I think there are many much less sexually adventurous versions of Sam out here, today.

Women are deciding through circumstance or their own desires that marriage is not the path they want to take.