Sex And The City - General Discussion

[Ms Blue Jay]

16 hours ago, ChitChat said:

The closest we got to know about Miranda's family was when her mother died and we learned that her sister was a bitch to her!

We got to know that Charlotte has a super hot brother named (Wesley?) early on and that Sam slept with him.

Why didn't we get to see more of that side of Charlotte?  You notice how we know so much about Trey's family and upbringing, but not about Charlotte's?  It's silly, and I agree, really strange choice on the writers' behalf.

And when it comes to Smith, we know that his parents named him Jerry Jerrod (I think) and that he was an alcoholic, and he was "fucked up for 8 years in Seattle".  That's more than we know about Samantha's upbringing.

We even know Big's ex-wife.  Before we even knew what Big's first name was!  

11 hours ago, pinkandsparkly13 said:

One Samantha moment I don't like is at the beginning of Four Women and a Funeral. Charlotte shows up at Carrie's door and she asks "was everyone invited to this?!" She has this annoyed look on her face and I just thought it was rude. Like why did she seem annoyed that Charlotte was going? 

That was really on, Season 2 episode 5.  I assume they were trying to make Charlotte and Sam non-friends and rivals as per Candace Bushnell's book.  Obviously that had to change at some point.  But I understand your point.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 hours ago, pinkandsparkly13 said:

I also didn't like her reaction to the doctor telling her that women who don't have children have a higher chance of getting breast cancer. I just thought it was a big over reaction. "He's basically saying I'm a whore who deserves it." He didn't imply that or insinuate anything about her sex life or something because of it. She just got too mad about it. 

I understand that too.  Obviously hearing you have cancer is a very emotional, horrible thing.  Your emotions will be running rampant, and you might not make much sense.  It's really hard as a woman to hear that if you don't have children, you're more at risk for cancer.  Whether women are childless by choice, or not by choice, it's incredibly hard.  For women who want children all their lives and don't have them, it's like being hit twice.  No children AND you're more at risk for cancer?  I don't blame anyone who can't take that news well.  I can't blame anyone for their reaction upon hearing that they have cancer.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Black Knight]

And the thing is, there are all kinds of things that increase your risk of cancer or lower your risk of cancer. How much drinking do you do? Where have you lived? What kind of job do you do? What is your family history and your genetics, which is something that is completely out of your control? "Increased risk" sounds very ominous, but really, with not having children, we're not talking something like 50% increased chance. There are tons and tons of mothers who have gotten cancer. I know more mothers who have gotten cancer than childless women who have. Yes, if you smoke like a chimney and you get lung cancer, you can be pretty sure that was a huge contributing factor. But cancer is not always that straightforward. My stepfather died of liver cancer. We don't know why. He didn't have any of the increased risk factors and it didn't run in his family. One can manage to do everything "perfectly" and still get cancer. So for the doctor to dump that on Sam like it was the thing that made the difference was really just straight bullshit.

[Hiyo]

Quote

I assume they were trying to make Charlotte and Sam non-friends and rivals as per Candace Bushnell's book.  Obviously that had to change at some point. 

By season 2, I doubt it. They were already established as a quartet of friends long before that. Though Charlotte and Sam did have the prickliest of friendships out of the foursome, so that could be a holdover, but then again, their TV characteristics would be the ones expected to clash the most.

With regards to Sam's comment, it might just be surprised that Charlotte was part of that particular fashion crowd, given her own personal fashion style.

In any case, that piqued my interest so I googled some of the differences between the book and the show, and wow, very different indeed...I might actually try and read the book just to see how different it really is. Got this from a wiki page, will put in spoilers just in case:

Spoiler

Though the novel, like the series, is told from the point of view of columnist Carrie Bradshaw, her adventures include more and varied friends than the three primaries featured in the series. Some situations and personalities were adapted for the show, but the characters who bear the names Charlotte York, Miranda Hobbs, and Samantha Jones are minor and contrast their television counterparts.

Charlotte is a sex-crazed Englishwoman in the book; in the series she is a naïve, sometimes prudish American WASP. Miranda is a coke-loving cable executive in the book, but a lawyer in the series. Samantha is a movie producer in the book, but a public relations manager in the television series.

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Hiyo

[Ms Blue Jay]

The book is wonderful, I definitely recommend it.  Of course, don't expect it to be like the show.  However, there are a lot of similarities between the book and Season 1.  

Candace Bushnell wrote it in this very detached, jaded, minimalistic way, and the spirit goes along with what we thought of the 90s - kind of nihilistic, cynical, cool.  It's one of my favourites.  It makes me laugh now that I read it at such a young age.  I was enthralled with both the series and the book.

Just so everyone is aware, Carrie is obviously based on Candace herself and Mr. Big was based on one of Candace's loves, Ron Galotti.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a21095035/ron-galotti-meet-the-man-who-inspired-mr-big/

Edited May 21, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hiyo]

Ron Galotti? Talk about a major casting upgrade.

Yeah, I know that sounds superficial.

[Chit Chat]

9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

So for the doctor to dump that on Sam like it was the thing that made the difference was really just straight bullshit.

I think that Samantha thought she was being judged, not just by him, but by society in general.   One of the nicest moments of the show was when Miranda made Samantha tell her what was wrong (at the dinner after her wedding.)  It was a very sweet moment between all 4 ladies.  "You're my family, now start talking."  - Miranda.   

[izabella]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:34 PM, ChitChat said:

Those didn't look like any boy shorts I've seen!!  They looked like a female version of a tighty-whitie!!  Not feminine at all, unlike a pair I had. 

They were tightie-whities.  I'm not sure if they were supposed to be Aiden's that she was borrowing, but my guess is they put her in them to show how they were getting all "boring old couple comfortable" with the relationship...except they weren't. 

 

[LemonSoda]

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The book is wonderful, I definitely recommend it.  Of course, don't expect it to be like the show.  However, there are a lot of similarities between the book and Season 1.  

Candace Bushnell wrote it in this very detached, jaded, minimalistic way, and the spirit goes along with what we thought of the 90s - kind of nihilistic, cynical, cool.  It's one of my favourites.  It makes me laugh now that I read it at such a young age.  I was enthralled with both the series and the book.

Just so everyone is aware, Carrie is obviously based on Candace herself and Mr. Big was based on one of Candace's loves, Ron Galotti.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a21095035/ron-galotti-meet-the-man-who-inspired-mr-big/

*raises hand* I highly recommend it too! I really like Candace’s writing voice. Sometimes I wonder how much better or worse the show would’ve been if they stuck with Candace Bushnell’s voice instead of recreating SJP and MPK’s version of who they wanted her to be. 

Despite being out of the age demographic for it, I liked The Carrie Diaries. But I hated when the show would get attacked for facts in the series changing when SATC not only had a lot of changing facts within the series but TCD was Candace Bushnell’s Carrie, not SJP and MPK’s version of her. 

I’ve been rewatching. I had forgotten how much I liked the episodes where Carrie is dating the one episode guys. 

I’ve never understood Miranda’s wardrobe. She’s a beautiful woman. She really glows in the Robert episodes. At the basketball game with Charlotte, I remember saying Why can’t they dress her like this all the time? 
 

[Chit Chat]

8 hours ago, izabella said:

They were tightie-whities.  I'm not sure if they were supposed to be Aiden's that she was borrowing, but my guess is they put her in them to show how they were getting all "boring old couple comfortable" with the relationship...except they weren't. 

Thanks for posting the picture.  I was pretty sure that I was remembering the underwear that way!!  I have to say though, in 35 years of marriage I've never once put on my husband's underwear!

[Hiyo]

You are obviously not the daring forward thinking fashionista that is Carrie Bradshaw then 😉

[Ms Blue Jay]

I know everyone's saying that Berger was a jerk, but I'm watching the episode where he drops Carrie off at jury duty.

Berger:  I'm gonna look at some computer shit.  Call me when you're done and we'll do something.
Carrie:  Well, aren't you gonna write today?
Berger:  What does that mean?
Carrie:  It doesn't mean ANYTHING, it was just a question.

Well, it's a pretty weird, passive aggressive question.  LOL.  Why did she even ask him that?  She was obviously not going to write that day.  Once again I want to point out that Berger was a rich dude who had both a place in Manhattan, and a place in the Hamptons.  He actually didn't need to be a continually successful writer.  And not everyone is handed a column at the New York Star, or wherever Carrie worked.

That relationship was very short and new, so I'm surprised Carrie would even go there.

But of course I do agree that Berger could be jerky.  He pretty much implodes throughout the rest of the day, and he is not polite to Charlotte.  He's obviously really insecure and takes random things personally.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Avabelle]

The funniest episode of the Berger/Carrie saga was when they had sex, it was awful and then they both kept trying to make it good. So funny.

also loved Big referring to him as Hotdog..

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's  pretty interesting, I'm watching the episodes now.  Carrie tells Big about Berger and you can tell he doesn't want to hear about it and he gently ends the conversation.  Then just a few episodes later, Big is calling to check up on her and their relationship.

[Chit Chat]

17 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Then just a few episodes later, Big is calling to check up on her and their relationship.

He was probably hoping she'd say it was over so he could swoop in and have her back!

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

But of course I do agree that Berger could be jerky.  He pretty much implodes throughout the rest of the day, and he is not polite to Charlotte.  He's obviously really insecure and takes random things personally.

I liked it when he explained to Miranda that her date was "just not that into you."  That's the Berger I liked!  I think he was jealous because Carrie seemed to get a book deal easily and he was struggling.  He didn't understand all of the hard work she put into her column over the years so as to be able to write a book, so it wasn't as if she got a book deal her first week out of college!   I'm sure there are still a lot of men out there who can't handle having a partner be more successful than them in any given moment, which is a shame.  She was better off without him.  He needed to figure out his own shit before getting into another relationship!

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, ChitChat said:

He needed to figure out his own shit before getting into another relationship!

They were both on the rebound, but he was REALLY messed up over his ex, who cheated on him.  As opposed to Carrie, who cheated on HER ex 😉. So she was pretty much fine.

[Avabelle]

15 hours ago, ChitChat said:

He was probably hoping she'd say it was over so he could swoop in and have her back!

Actually at that point I didn’t think so. I think they were enjoying the friends with Sometimes benefits Element of the relationship at that point. And they were long distance so I don’t think He was actively hoping to swoop in or win her back. At that stage I think they were genuinely friends. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Carrie saying to Charlotte "Paper covers rock" and smacking down the Post-It over Charlotte's ring is so rude and obnoxious after Charlotte gets engaged.

In the next scene, Carrie also makes this comment to Samantha which I've posted about before (which I can't seem to find anymore.)

Carrie to Samantha:

Quote

Listen to me being all hurt. Look how many men have broken up with you and you’re fine.

Which is SO incredibly rude, unprovoked, and uncalled for.

And then forces Miranda to go out even though she doesn't want to, saying "I will play the Post-It card."

Now she's forcing Charlotte to crash someone else's bachelorette party.  I swear, this woman never stops.  She's so performative and needy.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[blondiec0332]

15 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Carrie saying to Charlotte "Paper covers rock" and smacking down the Post-It over Charlotte's ring is so rude and obnoxious after Charlotte gets engaged.

In the next scene, Carrie also makes this comment to Samantha which I've posted about before (which I can't seem to find anymore.)

Carrie to Samantha:

Which is SO incredibly rude, unprovoked, and uncalled for.

And then forces Miranda to go out even though she doesn't want to, saying "I will play the Post-It card."

Now she's forcing Charlotte to crash someone else's bachelorette party.  I swear, this woman never stops.  She's so performative and needy.

Carrie was just all around awful in that episode.  Her and Berger were clearly not working and she was more upset about how he broke up with her rather than the fact he broke up with her.  Yes it was shitty thing for him to do but get over it. He didn't cheat on her. He wasn't abusive. He took the coward's way out which a lot of people do.  At least he told her. I've had men just ghost me. I simply just never  hear from them again.

The first part of Season 6 was all over the map with Carrie. The writers obviously knew they were going to introduce Alek so they were just treading water till they got there.

[Hiyo]

You know, for all the faults that episode had, and as cringe as Carrie was at times in that episode...I still enjoyed it overall.

It was nice to see them having a "girls night out" for a good chunk of the episode, and one that wasn't about them looking for guys but just having fun and hanging out together.

[Avabelle]

Best part of that episode was the cop Who arrested her and then wasn’t interested in Her post it note dumping.

”I’m sorry, I can’t, don’t hate me.”

[Chit Chat]

On 5/27/2020 at 7:39 AM, blondiec0332 said:

Carrie was just all around awful in that episode.  Her and Berger were clearly not working and she was more upset about how he broke up with her rather than the fact he broke up with her.  Yes it was shitty thing for him to do but get over it.

It's interesting that she took that break-up so hard and wanted everybody's sympathy, but after she broke up with Aidan and then found out from Steve that Aidan couldn't function for a month and that he lost his ability to trust women, well, she practically laughed in his face. This from a woman who had to be spoon-fed by Samantha at the resort after Big didn't show up for their wedding.  It always seemed to be okay for Carrie to break up with a guy, but when they hurt her, it was some monumental life-altering moment for her.  Having said that,  not showing up for one's own wedding is a pretty big deal, but she couldn't function for awhile either.  She didn't seem to give that same consideration to Aidan.

 

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Carrie narrating in "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" about "Honesty":

"I cheated on a test in the fifth grade with 2 friends.  They confessed, got grounded, and failed the class.  I never told anyone, and it never mattered."

LOL, it probably mattered to THEM, Carrie.

4 hours ago, ChitChat said:

It's interesting that she took that break-up so hard and wanted everybody's sympathy, but after she broke up with Aidan and then found out from Steve that Aidan couldn't function for a month and that he lost his ability to trust women, well, she practically laughed in his face. This from a woman who had to be spoon-fed by Samantha at the resort after Big didn't show up for their wedding.  It always seemed to be okay for Carrie to break up with a guy, but when they hurt her, it was some monumental life-altering moment for her.  Having said that,  not showing up for one's own wedding is a pretty big deal, but she couldn't function for awhile either.  She didn't seem to give that same consideration to Aidan.

That's why I say Carrie is so "performative".  So much about Carrie doesn't feel genuine, but rather, "performing" for everyone else.  When she called Natasha at work and was told she'd be waiting "forever" if she wanted to speak to her, Carrie says "Okay then I'll wait forever."  Which is just a performance so she can look like a martyr.  And how long did it take for her to hang up?  Five minutes?  LOL.

Laughing in Steve's face about Aidan not being able to function is Carrie just "performing".  It's her pretending to be so humble like, oh there's no way anyone could possibly take breaking up with me hard, but rather it just comes off as insensitive and shows Carrie's true colours, and that she really didn't give as much of a shit about breaking up with Aidan as he did.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hiyo]

She probably went home and masturbated for hours after she found out about how broken Aidan was, because nothing gets Carrie going like knowing how much she matters to people out there.

[RealHousewife]

Kristin Davis was on The Talk recently and asked which SATC character she'd most like to quarantine with. She mentioned Charlotte first because she'd probably be most prepared, then said Samantha would be most fun but she might hate being at home, that Carrie is funny and witty company, and that Miranda would probably be focused on work.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Found a good episode where Carrie is actually charming and funny and not an ass -- "Critical Condition", Season 5, where Big has to have heart surgery.

(1) Steve first meets Robert by walking in on Robert and Miranda having sex and immediately busts his nose on a door.
Carrie:  That is HORRIFYING.  I will continue to be horrified by that story ALL. DAY.

(2)  Smith tries to hold Samantha's hand.  She falls into a stairwell and breaks her ankle.
Sam:  He did something SO PERVERSE.  He tried to hold my hand.
Carrie:  Do you mean to tell me that Smith is a HAND-HOLDER?  And to think.....he once served us food.

Carrie takes really good care of Big, and never takes his reactions personally.  She is 100% there for him, and selfless.  I really like SJP's acting in this episode.

Something really annoying is that I think they dubbed Bitsy Von Muffling's voice.  I feel bad for the actor.

 

Very cool song closes this episode:

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Jillybean]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Carrie takes really good care of Big, and never takes his reactions personally.  She is 100% there for him, and selfless.  I really like SJP's acting in this episode.

I thought her crying was terribly fake, but the rest was fine.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I thought her crying was terribly fake, but the rest was fine.

Yeah, it's not great.  But I like her stillness at the end of the episode.

For the opposite of that, I think of the episode where Berger dumps with her the post it note, and she smashes the vase of carnations onto the ground.  I loved that scene too.  I like her open frustration at how hard that relationship was for her, and how she really was trying.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[TheBride]

I find Carrie's "little girl" act with Aiden annoying. Her voice literally changes, then switches back when she's with her girlfriends. Weird.

[geauxaway]

On 6/2/2020 at 11:28 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Found a good episode where Carrie is actually charming and funny and not an ass -- "Critical Condition", Season 5, where Big has to have heart surgery.

(1) Steve first meets Robert by walking in on Robert and Miranda having sex and immediately busts his nose on a door.
Carrie:  That is HORRIFYING.  I will continue to be horrified by that story ALL. DAY.

(2)  Smith tries to hold Samantha's hand.  She falls into a stairwell and breaks her ankle.
Sam:  He did something SO PERVERSE.  He tried to hold my hand.
Carrie:  Do you mean to tell me that Smith is a HAND-HOLDER?  And to think.....he once served us food.

Carrie takes really good care of Big, and never takes his reactions personally.  She is 100% there for him, and selfless.  I really like SJP's acting in this episode.

Something really annoying is that I think they dubbed Bitsy Von Muffling's voice.  I feel bad for the actor.

 

Very cool song closes this episode:

 

The tampon in Steve’s nose will always kill me. Same as Sam falling down that stairwell when Smith tried to hold her hand.  The physical comedy in both those scenes was great!

[BlueMoon81]

On 5/26/2020 at 4:59 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Carrie saying to Charlotte "Paper covers rock" and smacking down the Post-It over Charlotte's ring is so rude and obnoxious after Charlotte gets engaged.

In the next scene, Carrie also makes this comment to Samantha which I've posted about before (which I can't seem to find anymore.)

Carrie to Samantha:

Which is SO incredibly rude, unprovoked, and uncalled for.

That’s typical attention-whore Carrie. Charlotte has the amazing news that her and Harry have reconciled and are engaged, yet Carrie can’t even let Charlotte be the focus of the convo for that one day—she has to usurp Charlotte with her own drama. The later seasons are terrific overall, but Carrie turned up her bitchy, snarky “jokes” about Sam’s sexuality to about a 12 (on a scale from 1-10). She is CONSTANTLY throwing jabs at Sam, and then pretending she’s joking (while doing a vomit-inducing little girl sip of her drink or bob of her head to the side). I think it was indicative of SJP’s envy of how popular KC’s Samantha had become 

On 5/29/2020 at 9:16 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

That's why I say Carrie is so "performative".  So much about Carrie doesn't feel genuine, but rather, "performing" for everyone else.  When she called Natasha at work and was told she'd be waiting "forever" if she wanted to speak to her, Carrie says "Okay then I'll wait forever."  Which is just a performance so she can look like a martyr.  And how long did it take for her to hang up?  Five minutes?  LOL.

 

This is one of the main reasons why I have never thought that Carrie actually regretted or felt guilty about the messy affair in Season 3. I think she just didn’t want to be seen as “the bad guy”, so she pretended to be some false victim. Natasha didn’t owe Carrie any meeting or to take her calls. But Carrie always has to pretend she was somehow the innocent, naive victim who was manipulated by worldly, shrewd puppeteers (like how her breakup with Big in Season 1 was magically because Big “was such an asshole to her” and not because Carrie tried to force him to introduce her to his own mother...without his permission). Her fake martyrdom is really vomit inducing, and one of the reasons the character never appealed to me 

[BlueMoon81]

On 5/22/2020 at 11:46 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I know everyone's saying that Berger was a jerk, but I'm watching the episode where he drops Carrie off at jury duty.

Berger:  I'm gonna look at some computer shit.  Call me when you're done and we'll do something.
Carrie:  Well, aren't you gonna write today?
Berger:  What does that mean?
Carrie:  It doesn't mean ANYTHING, it was just a question.

Well, it's a pretty weird, passive aggressive question.  LOL.  Why did she even ask him that?  She was obviously not going to write that day.  Once again I want to point out that Berger was a rich dude who had both a place in Manhattan, and a place in the Hamptons.  He actually didn't need to be a continually successful writer.  And not everyone is handed a column at the New York Star, or wherever Carrie worked.

I hated that Carrie asked Berger that question, with all its undertones of “don’t be a lazy ass today and actually do some writing”. I have never blamed Berger for snapping on her for asking that kinda loaded question.
 

And that’s a great point about Berger owning a place in Manhattan and the Hamptons—signaling that he was a more successful writer than Carrie (at least in terms of finance). I actually liked Berger, as I saw him as the male mirror image of Carrie—He was very insecure, up and down with his moods, and terrible at communicating to his romantic partner. I view that relationship as all of Carrie’s neuroses staring her right back in her own face. It was a very interesting route to go, writing-wise 

[Ms Blue Jay]

42 minutes ago, BlueMoon81 said:

I actually liked Berger, as I saw him as the male mirror image of Carrie—He was very insecure, up and down with his moods, and terrible at communicating to his romantic partner. I view that relationship as all of Carrie’s neuroses staring her right back in her own face. It was a very interesting route to go, writing-wise 

Oh, I totally agree!

[RealHousewife]

On 6/6/2020 at 1:17 PM, TheBride said:

I find Carrie's "little girl" act with Aiden annoying. Her voice literally changes, then switches back when she's with her girlfriends. Weird.

I’ve known a few petite women who are eternally little girls. I guess they think being small allows them to be cutesy? 
 

@BlueMoon81 excellent point about the similarities between Carrie and Berger! 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

I hated that Carrie asked Berger that question, with all its undertones of “don’t be a lazy ass today and actually do some writing”. I have never blamed Berger for snapping on her for asking that kinda loaded question.
 

And that’s a great point about Berger owning a place in Manhattan and the Hamptons—signaling that he was a more successful writer than Carrie (at least in terms of finance). I actually liked Berger, as I saw him as the male mirror image of Carrie—He was very insecure, up and down with his moods, and terrible at communicating to his romantic partner. I view that relationship as all of Carrie’s neuroses staring her right back in her own face. It was a very interesting route to go, writing-wise 

Wow, I never noticed that! Your right. 

[qtpye]

On 5/8/2020 at 3:27 PM, blondiec0332 said:

For someone who was a writer Carrie sure didn't take the initiative when it came to writing.  Before she left for Paris she said her newspaper didn't like the idea of her writing her column from Paris which is completely understandable. So what exactly did Carrie think she was going to be doing in Paris? I often wondered what Carrie would have done for a career if she hadn't been offered the Star column.  She didn't seem to want to write anything but that. Even the first book that was published was just a compilation of her columns.   I know in the second movie she had written a book (s?) but that took her how many years to do that?

 

 

On 5/8/2020 at 4:34 PM, ByTor said:

Miranda asked Carrie that exact question, and wasn't her answer something like "I don't know!  I thought you were my friend and you'd support me!"  It REALLY bugged me that Carrie saw that as "judgy".  I saw it as a legitimate question, and something Carrie herself should have thought of before going.  She and Aleks weren't married, he had no obligation to support her financially.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 4:37 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Carrie obviously moved to New York and was able to build a life and make friends there.  I wish she had the same attitude in Paris.  Of course, there's the language barrier.

I talk a lot of shit about Carrie, but I'm TOTALLY Team Carrie when it comes to DECIDING to go to Paris.  That's 100% her business and Miranda was being an asshole (my opinion).  Carrie was right, everyone had moved on and Miranda moved to Brooklyn, so why couldn't she?  It's not like Miranda asked Carrie for permission before doing that.

But then when Carrie went there she acted like a gigantic idiot and she just couldn't hack it, which, fine.  It was also all writer contrivance to make Carrie and Aleks not work out, obviously.  She was loving the life with Aleks when it was New York-based.

I definitely don't think Carrie was planning on making a regular salary in Paris, definitely not at first.  Miranda was pretty judgemental and it's fine if Carrie wanted to accept Aleks' invitation and I think he made it clear he was footing the bill.  He refused to live in NYC any further and he invited her to come along.  It was kind of an ultimatum.  If Carrie wanted Aleks she was forced to go to Paris, but she also wanted to go.  Charlotte wanted to stop working when she was married to Trey also, and Miranda judged the hell out of her for that too.  I didn't.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 4:52 PM, LemonSoda said:

Yes. But somewhere, I think season 2? The Candace Bushnell alter ego Carrie Bradshaw became the SJP/MPK Carrie Bradshaw. Candace Bushnell’s CB not only wrote a column but did other writing, covered events as well. SJP/MPK created their own CB. They seemed to have dumbed her down a bit, added quirks that were more annoying than cute. 
 

Going to Paris? Yes! But she seemed to have too much ego and entitlement, expecting everything to come to her. With some effort she could’ve really made things work, created a nice financial and social nest for herself. 
 

I thought Miranda was judgy in that “We’re all going to have to clean up the mess when she comes back from Paris broke and an emotional mess” type of way. Or maybe I read too much in to it. 

 

On 5/8/2020 at 5:25 PM, ByTor said:

I just don't get why asking "what are you going to do when you get there?" is a judgy question.  And I'm definitely not arguing with you, your personal feelings about something isn't wrong.  To me, Carrie was being impulsive and in my opinion, was quite immature with the thought process that things would fall in her lap once she got there.  It's fascinating to me that the finale basically showed how the characters have grown over the seasons, yet Carrie, the main character, actually regressed, if anything.

 

 

On 5/8/2020 at 5:35 PM, ByTor said:

I didn't either LOL.  BUT...when they all had dinner with him, I thought they all acted like assholes, so I don't really blame him for not liking them either.

True, that was a snotty thing to say, and maybe she could have said it better, but the message, IMO, was still correct.  Unless you're independently wealthy, I think running away to another country with your boyfriend with no plan was pretty immature for someone Carrie's age.

LOL...and if it weren't for Big, this is exactly what would have happened 🙂 

 

On 5/8/2020 at 5:41 PM, ByTor said:

I found it extremely immature for someone pushing 40 who barely had 2 nickels to rub together. This is one thing I will never take Carrie's side on, and it actually turned out that Miranda was right and things did not work out for her the way she naively expected it to.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 5:42 PM, andromeda331 said:

 

I don't either. Yeah Carrie's free to make any decision she wants. But this is Carrie who makes bad decisions all the time and this is another bad decision. I'd rather have Miranda at least try to talk some sense into her even though its not going to work. Carrie doesn't really know Alek very well, they hadn't dated that long, their not in love, and she's making a decision to quit her job and up and move to another country. Plus Carrie hasn't been all that great with Aleks. She got annoyed at all the "romance" stuff, she got annoyed when he said he was done and didn't want to have kids, and got mad at him when he tried to explain his experience with his friend who had cancer. Not to completely blame Carrie but the two were very different. Alek seems serious most of the time and doesn't really get Carrie. There were just all these signs that they weren't going to work out.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 5:49 PM, ByTor said:

Exactly.  It was the show's lame way of showing that Carrie did this because she never got Big out of her system.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 7:18 PM, ifionlyknew said:

But Carrie had a habit of relying on other people.  She moved to Paris to be with Alek. She was relying on him to give her a purpose in Paris. I understand her wanting to move on in life just as her friends had but the choice she made wasn't well thought out.

The problem was Carrie was going there to be a kept woman but she still thought of herself as independent.

She thought that she could just ride A’s coat tails as a brilliant and respected artists to gain access to high society. When she went there, she was rudely thrust into the reality that no one really gave her a second thought.

I am a woman who has worked hard for everything I have. However, I have known women who have taken “opportunities” with Sugar Daddies and men who kept them very comfortable financially. I knew one girl that had an older man pay for her all her law school tuition. She graduated with zero debt.

The difference was that these girls know the score. They know when the guy is around to subvert their needs and make it all about the guy (probably why a lot of women would not like this arrangement). 

Carrie treated it like some sort of grand romance where A would pay for everything and cater to all her needs.

There was an expectation that in case it would not work out, her friends would pick up the pieces and help her out. Luckily, there was another handsome zillionaire waiting in the wings to rescue her.

[Ms Blue Jay]

If she was going to marry Big in New York like she always dreamed, she would be a kept woman there also.  No difference.  And we see her live that out in SATC 2.

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

There was an expectation that in case it would not work out, her friends would pick up the pieces and help her out. Luckily, there was another handsome zillionaire waiting in the wings to rescue her.

Yup.

So when Miranda is putting down the idea of Carrie being a kept woman in Paris, what she really wants is for Carrie to be a kept woman in NY ("Go get our girl".)  The show pretends it's about Miranda caring about Carrie losing herself, and her independence, and her column, and her identity, but it's not!  It's just about Miranda losing Carrie and her "connection" to the single/free/fun world because Steve is a loser (I added that last part.)

Edited June 9, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[ByTor]

Just now, Ms Blue Jay said:

If she was going to marry Big in New York like she always dreamed, she would be a kept woman there also.  No difference. 

Sure there is, in NY she still had her job.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Sure there is, in NY she still had her job.

Did she do any work in SATC2 after finally marrying Big?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_the_City_2

Oh whoops, nevermind, I found two days of work

Quote

 In response she stays at her old apartment for two days to write an article.

So yeah, humongous difference.  😄

Edited June 9, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[ByTor]

25 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Did she do any work in SATC2 after finally marrying Big?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_the_City_2

Oh whoops, nevermind, I found two days of work

So yeah, humongous difference.  😄

\We have no clue in that 1st year of marriage how much writing she did, the 2nd movie they were already a year into the marriage, so we really don't know how humongous of a difference it was.

[blondiec0332]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

The problem was Carrie was going there to be a kept woman but she still thought of herself as independent.

That was always her dream. She wanted to a live a lifestyle her column was never going to be able to provide for her.  Even when she sold her book we didn't see her invest in her future. I hope she paid Charlotte back but who knows. She was shocked Aiden wasn't giving her the apartment. 

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

The difference was that these girls know the score. They know when the guy is around to subvert their needs and make it all about the guy (probably why a lot of women would not like this arrangement). 

Remember Carrie was offended (kinda) when the guy left  her money after she spent the night with him.  But living with Alek in Paris without any means of support (other than her book royalties) was OK with her. 

 

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

There was an expectation that in case it would not work out, her friends would pick up the pieces and help her out. Luckily, there was another handsome zillionaire waiting in the wings to rescue her.

I can only speak for myself but I would need more of an exit strategy than that.  If Big hadn't been there Carrie was going to what? Go home to NYC with her tail tucked between her legs telling Miranda she was right?

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

So when Miranda is putting down the idea of Carrie being a kept woman in Paris, what she really wants is for Carrie to be a kept woman in NY ("Go get our girl".)  The show pretends it's about Miranda caring about Carrie losing herself, and her independence, and her column, and her identity, but it's not!  It's just about Miranda losing Carrie and her "connection" to the single/free/fun world because Steve is a loser (I added that last part.)

I think it was both. I think Miranda did feel Carrie should have a plan if things didn't work out but yeah she also wanted Carrie to stay because Miranda had just made a big life changing decision (marrying Steve and moving to Brooklynn) and she wasn't entirely comfortable with that yet.  And I still think Steve wasn't the right man for her.

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Did she do any work in SATC2 after finally marrying Big?

 

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh whoops, nevermind, I found two days of work

 

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

the 2nd movie they were already a year into the marriage, so we really don't know how humongous of a difference it was.

Yes but she wore glasses so  we are supposed to take her more seriously as a writer.  Or reader I guess.

[Ms Blue Jay]

InStyle Magazine takes a few lines from Sex and the City and makes them more updated for 2020 and intersectionally feminist.  You can scroll through the post to see all five by clicking the arrow on the right, midway down the page.

There could be so many more posts like this, analysing:

1)  the way Samantha talks about black men
2)  the way Miranda says "Follow that white man" when she's looking for real estate in Chinatown, that gentrifying heifer 
3) the way they condescend to everyone in Abu Dhabi, except for Miranda I guess
4)  oh and how they didn't have any black or non-white friends at all.  

 

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[ByTor]

3 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

There was an expectation that in case it would not work out, her friends would pick up the pieces and help her out. Luckily, there was another handsome zillionaire waiting in the wings to rescue her.

I can only speak for myself but I would need more of an exit strategy than that.  If Big hadn't been there Carrie was going to what? Go home to NYC with her tail tucked between her legs telling Miranda she was right?

LOL she would rather wear Candies than tell Miranda she was right! 🤣

[blondiec0332]

1 minute ago, ByTor said:

LOL she would rather wear Candies than tell Miranda she was right! 🤣

And wear a scrunchie.

[ByTor]

5 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

And wear a scrunchie.

[qtpye]

6 hours ago, ByTor said:

I always wondered would his book have fallen apart if his changed from wearing a scrunching to a hat or a hair clip? Seems like an easy fix.

 

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

If she was going to marry Big in New York like she always dreamed, she would be a kept woman there also.  No difference.  And we see her live that out in SATC 2.

Yup.

So when Miranda is putting down the idea of Carrie being a kept woman in Paris, what she really wants is for Carrie to be a kept woman in NY ("Go get our girl".)  The show pretends it's about Miranda caring about Carrie losing herself, and her independence, and her column, and her identity, but it's not!  It's just about Miranda losing Carrie and her "connection" to the single/free/fun world because Steve is a loser (I added that last part.)

 

6 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

That was always her dream. She wanted to a live a lifestyle her column was never going to be able to provide for her.  Even when she sold her book we didn't see her invest in her future. I hope she paid Charlotte back but who knows. She was shocked Aiden wasn't giving her the apartment. 

Remember Carrie was offended (kinda) when the guy left  her money after she spent the night with him.  But living with Alek in Paris without any means of support (other than her book royalties) was OK with her. 

 

I can only speak for myself but I would need more of an exit strategy than that.  If Big hadn't been there Carrie was going to what? Go home to NYC with her tail tucked between her legs telling Miranda she was right?

I think it was both. I think Miranda did feel Carrie should have a plan if things didn't work out but yeah she also wanted Carrie to stay because Miranda had just made a big life changing decision (marrying Steve and moving to Brooklynn) and she wasn't entirely comfortable with that yet.  And I still think Steve wasn't the right man for her.

 

 

Yes but she wore glasses so  we are supposed to take her more seriously as a writer.  Or reader I guess.

They always made a point of never showing Carrie as a gold digger. Truthfully, she really was not one in earlier seasons. It was later when her financial sensibilities seemed as smart as a hamster that you begin to wonder how she survived a week in NYC by herself, let alone years.

[Ms Blue Jay]

?  Season 1.  Episode 1.  Carrie was attracted to Big after bumping into him in the street.  He was wearing a very expensive suit.  Then at a bar, Samantha tells him he's like the new Donald Trump.  After that, Carrie's obsession starts.  There was definitely gold there and Carrie was digging.  If Big was homeless, poor, or middle class, I don't think that obsession would be there.  They called him Mr. Big.  As in the Big Man on Campus.  They never referred to him as John.  Carrie only referred to him by his status within New York City.  The name "Mr. Big" has nothing to do with size, and everything to do with money, power, and clout.  That's what Big refers to!  Why do you think we never learned his name for 6 seasons?  Because Carrie was obsessed with a man who was larger than life.  She was obsessed more with what he represented than who he actually was.  And her obsession with Big consumed her.  

She referred to Aidan as AIDAN or "Buddy".  She didn't see Aidan as larger than life and she was never obsessed with him.  I mean looking back, did Carrie EVER date anyone with less money than she had?  Besides the young guys she had one night stands with, Berger is the only person who got remotely close, and he still had way more money than her, he was just a less financially successful author.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

Carrie wasn't the stereotypical gold digger whose life mission was to land a rich man, physical attraction and true love be damned. She was still a romantic and had genuine interest in all the men she had relationships with. BUT she didn't necessarily like to mess with broke guys either. Kind of like the Kanye song. lol 

Most women who are as into material things as Carrie do not have anything to do with poor or middle-class men. Carrie had a millionaire's wardrobe and was always going out and living it up, in NYC at that. A guy who worked a humble job would tell her the amount of money she spent on shoes was asinine. A rich guy might feel the same. Some guys just don't get why women spend so much on fashion, but they're less likely to take issue with it, and obviously more likely to help maintain that lifestyle. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by RealHousewife

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Carrie wasn't the stereotypical gold digger whose life mission was to land a rich man, physical attraction and true love be damned. She was still a romantic and had genuine interest in all the men she had relationships with. BUT she didn't necessarily like to mess with broke guys either. Kind of like the Kanye song. lol 

And the song is called "Gold Digger".. .... lol.... sooo...... I agree she didn't make it her mission in life, but to say that Carrie was never a golddigger at the beginning of the show is really rewriting history.  She didn't intend to go out and find a rich man, but Big's status, power, and money were DEFINITELY part of his appeal to Carrie.  THE MAN HAD HIS OWN DRIVER.  Carrie saw that in the FIRST episode.  THE MAN HAS NEVER DRIVEN HIS OWN CAR IN SIX SEASONS AND TWO MOVIES.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And the song is called "Gold Digger".. .... lol.... sooo...... I agree she didn't make it her mission in life, but to say that Carrie was never a golddigger at the beginning of the show is really rewriting history.  She didn't intend to go out and find a rich man, but Big's status, power, and money were DEFINITELY part of his appeal to Carrie.  THE MAN HAD HIS OWN DRIVER.  Carrie saw that in the FIRST episode.  THE MAN HAS NEVER DRIVEN HIS OWN CAR IN SIX SEASONS AND TWO MOVIES.  

LOL exactly where I was getting at. 

I see both sides to this, I really do. Gold digger is just not a very nice word, but I don't see anything wrong taking what a guy has into account. I've known women who will date broke guys then dump them because they don't have enough. It's crueler to play around with people like that. I personally wouldn't have children with someone who didn't make a good salary. That's not to say I would want to be with someone solely for money or it's the most important thing, just that oh all you need is love sounds sweet but just isn't reality. Most women are also really attracted to men who are intelligent, hardworking, and powerful. If you just happen to be born into some money, you may not have some of those attributes, but they do apply to a lot of rich men.