Sex And The City - General Discussion

[HunterHunted]

On 12/2/2018 at 12:17 AM, Gothish520 said:

Lol, it was definitely melodramatic. Not a Carrie hater, but I admit I don't get what she was doing with Aidan. 

It's also clear that the writers had never met a regular guy before. In the episode when Aidan refuses to go out with Carrie and she goes out with gay friends, I was always weirded out by what Aidan was doing while she was out. He fell asleep in bed in his underwear while watching a baseball game and eating an entire bucket of fried chicken. Parts of that are normal, but together they are just so freaking weird. Fell asleep while watching the game? Fine. Got some fried chicken to eat while watching the game and fell asleep? Ok. He ate an entire 12 piece bucket of chicken while sitting around in his underwear and watching the game to ultimately fall asleep surrounded by this detritus in the apartment that he shared with his fiancee? Not ok or particularly conscientious. This is something I'd expect out of Al Bundy or a 15 year old boy. Neither comparison speaks well of Aidan who was a man in his 30s with a successful furniture company. It's also pretty clear that Aidan was trying get back at Carrie in their second go around.

Carrie SUCKS, but Aidan didn't have clean hands in their second go around.

[Maherjunkie]

I can't believe the new movie had a Brady/Sam storyline.  Ick, glad KC said no.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

23 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

I can't believe the new movie had a Brady/Sam storyline.  Ick, glad KC said no.

What. 

[Maherjunkie]

Involving sexting

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

That’s disgusting. Samantha knew him as a baby. She attended his mother’s baby shower and his baptism. Even if he were legally an adult that would be sick, but if my math is right, Brady would be in high school IRL. 

[Melancholy]

I understood the spoilers said Brady was sexting Sam, nothing about Sam sexting back. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

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[BlueMoon81]

On 12/21/2018 at 8:28 AM, Melancholy said:

I understood the spoilers said Brady was sexting Sam, nothing about Sam sexting back. 

That still amounts to nearly child pornography (assuming Brady is real-life chronological age like they had him in the horrid 2nd film), and way over the line. Sam is one of Brady’s second mothers/aunts, and it just reeks of yet another storyline to make a fool out of Sam’s character. I’m so thrilled that KC said a firm “NO” to a third film. Even the suggestion of that storyline would be insulting and tantamount to having Sam straddle the line of pedophilia (or whatever the technical term is for grown adults and high schoolers in a sexual situation)

Edited December 30, 2018 by BlueMoon81

[BlueMoon81]

On 6/9/2018 at 7:11 PM, Mu Shu said:

I pinpointed it to the second she started treating Aidan like shit and took back up with Big.  Too bad, it was all downhill for her after that.  She was a great character in the first two seasons. 

My Carrie disdain started at the end of Season 1, when she basically stalked Big’s mother...in an attempt to force Big into introducing her to his mother. Someone else’s family is always a minefield, and it is their minefield to attempt to wade through—not hers. It was soooo self-absorbed of her to think she had the right to demand to Big when he should disclose his relationship to his mother...then essentially breaking up with him for that reason (along with the childish “tell me I’m the one” garbage). 

 

My disdain for her intensified in season 2, especially after the second breakup with Big. Her snide, bitchy remarks to Miranda about therapy made me want to hurl. And the way she immaturely dismissed mental and emotional health therapy as “bullshit”...was just maddening. 

 

Season 3 was the moment where my disdain for Carrie hit the point of no return. Even before the whole affair fiasco, a moment that really has stuck in my craw for years was how she reacted when Sam told her and the girls that she was dating Chivon (the brother of their chef friend). They reacted as if Sam said she was dating Rush Limbaugh or an Alien from the planet Zardoz. And Carrie’s “talk about affirmative action” line...was one of the most cringe-worthy, demeaning, and insulting moments on the entire series for me. Then the whole affair mess and fallout (which cemented Carrie’s irredeemable nature for me personally) just made me want to vomit. I don’t think she was ever truly sorry for the hurt she caused to Aidan or Natasha...she just didn’t want to be seen as “the bad guy” who was the centerpiece of causing a divorce (the same way she didn’t want Nina Katz to think she was “the bad guy” when her and Aidan broke up the second time). Carrie NEVER rung true as a heroine for me—not when the show originally aired, and even less so today

[andromeda331]

2 minutes ago, BlueMoon81 said:

My Carrie disdain started at the end of Season 1, when she basically stalked Big’s mother...in an attempt to force Big into introducing her to his mother. Someone else’s family is always a minefield, and it is their minefield to attempt to wade through—not hers. It was soooo self-absorbed of her to think she had the right to demand to Big when he should disclose his relationship to his mother...then essentially breaking up with him for that reason (along with the childish “tell me I’m the one” garbage). 

 

My disdain for her intensified in season 2, especially after the second breakup with Big. Her snide, bitchy remarks to Miranda about therapy made me want to hurl. And the way she immaturely dismissed mental and emotional health therapy as “bullshit”...was just maddening. 

 

Season 3 was the moment where my disdain for Carrie hit the point of no return. Even before the whole affair fiasco, a moment that really has stuck in my craw for years was how she reacted when Sam told her and the girls that she was dating Chivon (the brother of their chef friend). They reacted as if Sam said she was dating Rush Limbaugh or an Alien from the planet Zardoz. And Carrie’s “talk about affirmative action” line...was one of the most cringe-worthy, demeaning, and insulting moments on the entire series for me. Then the whole affair mess and fallout (which cemented Carrie’s irredeemable nature for me personally) just made me want to vomit. I don’t think she was ever truly sorry for the hurt she caused to Aidan or Natasha...she just didn’t want to be seen as “the bad guy” who was the centerpiece of causing a divorce (the same way she didn’t want Nina Katz to think she was “the bad guy” when her and Aidan broke up the second time). Carrie NEVER rung true as a heroine for me—not when the show originally aired, and even less so today

That's pretty much how my dislike for Carrie went. It drove me crazy the way she kept trying to make her relationship with Big go faster then it was but then she stalks his mother. Who does that? Why is she so upset that he doesn't want to introduce her to his mother? Maybe he doesn't until their further along, maybe his mother requests it. Either way its not a big deal. She gets so upset and demanding he tells her she's the one or she can't go on their trip together. They were about to go on a vacation together. Who knows maybe they would have drawn closer by the time they got back.  She also stalks his ex-wife. That's creepy and I don't know why Big doesn't get freaked out by his girlfriend stalking his mother and his ex-wife. That's a big red flag. But season three was definitely where it hit the point of no return. The affair. I agree I don't think she cared at all that she hurt Aiden or Natasha. If she really did then she would have left Natasha alone but also she would have really tried when she and Aidan started dating again. But she never really does. She's annoyed by him and everything he does, she won't stop speaking to Big, even inviting him to Aiden's cabin or whatever that was and her 'you have to forgive me'. Why? Why does he have to forgive you? Because you want him too? Then maybe act like you are really sorry that you cheated on him and that you hurt him. I also "love" her annoyance when she finds out people may hate her because of what Natasha and Aidan have said about her. She is so surprised that Natasha maybe out in the world telling people she hates Carrie. Go figure! Imagine telling everyone you hate the woman who your husband cheated on you with. Same with Aidan, oh now dare he tell his friends how crappy he was treated by Carrie and her cheating on him. Then back together with him and won't give up Big. Only in her delusional mind is that surprising. But it also cracks me up given how she's treated so many of the men she's dated and people in general she really thinks those two are the only ones who are talking about her? Oh, Carrie, they are all talking about you and probably warning men away from you.

[BlueMoon81]

My God that “You have to forgive me!” ridiculousness was just the worst. No Carrie, he isn’t obligated to forgive you for having an affair with your MARRIED ex-boyfriend. And then in that same conversation, you have the gall to tell Aiden that the MARRIED ex-boyfriend you had AN AFFAIR with, is “in your life” and that Aiden will essentially have to just deal with it. That is the height of uncaring arrogance. Oh and then invites that same ex to Aiden’s beloved country house *rolls eyes* 

 

And Carrie stalking Big’s ex wife and then his mother DEFINITELY shouldve been the “run for the hills while you still can!” moment for Big. Oh then she punched him in the face in Season 2 because he accidentally rolled on her in his sleep...giving him a black eye. I thoroughly enjoyed the physical chemistry CN and SJP had on the show, but I cannot understand how Big kept going back to Carrie. She showed signs of obsession early on 

Edited December 30, 2018 by BlueMoon81

[andromeda331]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 11:10 PM, BlueMoon81 said:

My God that “You have to forgive me!” ridiculousness was just the worst. No Carrie, he isn’t obligated to forgive you for having an affair with your MARRIED ex-boyfriend. And then in that same conversation, you have the gall to tell Aiden that the MARRIED ex-boyfriend you had AN AFFAIR with, is “in your life” and that Aiden will essentially have to just deal with it. That is the height of uncaring arrogance. Oh and then invites that same ex to Aiden’s beloved country house *rolls eyes* 

 

It really is. The gall of her telling him he has to forgive her and then the gall of telling him he has to deal with Big in his life? Ah, no he doesn't Carrie. He doesn't have to forgive you. He doesn't have to have the man you cheated on him with in his life. I hate that Aidan puts up with it instead off calling her out and dumping her. Its crap that he has to put up with it. That he has to "let" Big come and stay in his country home? If the situation was reverse you know Carrie would be livid at Aidan and she'd be right. Also, just maybe one of the reasons Aidan hasn't forgiven you is that you have done nothing to show your sorry or earn his forgiveness? She does the exact opposite of trying to make up for what she did, really trying in their relationship, and yet is surprised that he doesn't forgive her. 

Quote

And Carrie stalking Big’s ex wife and then his mother DEFINITELY shouldve been the “run for the hills while you still can!” moment for Big. Oh then she punched him in the face in Season 2 because he accidentally rolled on her in his sleep...giving him a black eye. I thoroughly enjoyed the physical chemistry CN and SJP had on the show, but I cannot understand how Big kept going back to Carrie. She showed signs of obsession early on 

It really was. If she's stalking your ex and your mother. That's when you break it off, run for the hills and file a restraining order. That's creepy. I agree that CH and SJP had good chemistry but Big and Carrie make no real sense. Carrie stalks his family, is constantly getting upset over something, constantly trying to force the relationship to go faster, and won't just relax  and see where it goes. Big should have been freaked out and bolted when she was stalking his ex and his mother. I don't know why he keeps coming back to her either. They have zero in common, I can't see Big not getting bored with her, she has very few interests and zero interest in developing new ones. She'd be fun to go clubbing but I can't see him not moving on after awhile. Big ends up not being any better when he tries to start the affair even though he's married. He chose to marry and if he's not happy then get a divorce. His constant coming and going. By the end its not so much that yea Big and Carrie are together its more of why are they together or they deserve each other. Neither learn anything from anything they've done in their past. Zero growth, zero reason as to why now its going to last. In the first movie I'm not sure why they are together either. Carrie doesn't think marriage is in the cards, they are apartment hunting but they look at apartment that Carrie can afford before the penthouse which Big buys, so they don't talk about anything? At all? Plus Big is surprised that their wedding bloom into the big event that it was. Ah, has he met Carrie? That's what she does. Its not surprising she went big. And what after the wedding she gets bored early on because Big buys a TV for their bedroom. Cause you know that's a big crisis and deal. They don't really make sense, they don't bring out the good in each other, and they don't really show us why they should be together. Everything they show us all signs why they shouldn't be together.

Edited January 5, 2019 by andromeda331

[Toodleoo]

There were always parts of Samantha, Miranda, and (less so) Charlotte that I identified with and still do, but there was damn near nothing about Carrie I found to be relatable. Except maybe the occasional indulgence on a handbag and still not at her spending level.

 

Carrie, and SJP’s portrayal of her, drove me mad. I vaguely remember hearing some trope long ago that we dislike in others the behaviors that most mirror ours so I’ve always been afraid that I’m running around being a total asshole to my friends.  But the affectations that SJP had, the cutesy shit, the constant “hellooo pay attention to me” way of responding to people who weren’t focused on her, and the shrieking screams, oh god those stupid screams, drove/drive me nuts. Shut up shut up shut up! There are specific episodes that I can’t rewatch because there’s going to be a supershriek in them.

 

At any rate, to say something positive, the best that SJP has ever looked on or offscreen was in that big hair, blue coat, and sparkly underwear to walk the runway. And the scenes where she picked herself up and continued down the runway look to me to be the only genuine smile she’s ever displayed.

 

That episode led to imo the best line of the series:  “Oh my God! She’s fashion roadkill!”

 

[andromeda331]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 12:03 PM, Toodleoo said:

There were always parts of Samantha, Miranda, and (less so) Charlotte that I identified with and still do, but there was damn near nothing about Carrie I found to be relatable. Except maybe the occasional indulgence on a handbag and still not at her spending level.

 

Carrie, and SJP’s portrayal of her, drove me mad. I vaguely remember hearing some trope long ago that we dislike in others the behaviors that most mirror ours so I’ve always been afraid that I’m running around being a total asshole to my friends.  But the affectations that SJP had, the cutesy shit, the constant “hellooo pay attention to me” way of responding to people who weren’t focused on her, and the shrieking screams, oh god those stupid screams, drove/drive me nuts. Shut up shut up shut up! There are specific episodes that I can’t rewatch because there’s going to be a supershriek in them.

 

At any rate, to say something positive, the best that SJP has ever looked on or offscreen was in that big hair, blue coat, and sparkly underwear to walk the runway. And the scenes where she picked herself up and continued down the runway look to me to be the only genuine smile she’s ever displayed.

 

That episode led to imo the best line of the series:  “Oh my God! She’s fashion roadkill!”

 

So do I. I like the other three better because of that but also we watch them grow. All three of them think they know exactly what they want until they got it. Charlotte chasing after marriage and the perfect WASP life. But when she falls in love with Harry, she's the one who has to make changes. Which she does. That's big for someone who once broke up with a man over his taste in plates. Miranda fell in love with Steve who was very different from what she thought she wanted. I still love when she explains to Carrie why she wants her wedding. I don't like Samantha breaking up with Smith they were a great couple.  But Samantha thought she wanted no relationship. That got test twice and the second time it looked like it was going to stick. But she came to realize she was originally right. She doesn't want to be in a relationship. But it was explored and she tried it until she came to her realization. Carrie, we never get any of that. If we did it would have been so much better. But Carrie is always about herself, she always steers the conversation back to herself, and her problems, she treats everyone like crap, and learns nothing from it. She never grows she becomes worse as the seasons go on. 

[BlueMoon81]

On 12/30/2018 at 2:11 AM, andromeda331 said:

It really is. The gall of her telling him he has to forgive her and then the gall of telling him he has to deal with Big in his life? Ah, no he doesn't Carrie. He doesn't have to forgive you. He doesn't have to have the man you cheated on him with in his life. I hate that Aidan puts up with it instead off calling her out and dumping her. Its crap that he has to put up with it. That he has to "let" Big come and stay in his country home? If the situation was reverse you know Carrie would be livid at Aidan and she'd be right. Also, just maybe one of the reasons Aidan hasn't forgiven you is that you have done nothing to show your sorry or earn his forgiveness? She does the exact opposite of trying to make up for what she did, really trying in their relationship, and yet is surprised that he doesn't forgive her. 

It really was. If she's stalking your ex and your wife. That's when you break it off, run for the hills and file a restraining order. That's creepy. I agree that CH and SJP had good chemistry but Big and Carrie make no real sense. Carrie stalks his family, is constantly getting upset over something, constantly trying to force the relationship to go faster, and won't just relax  and see where it goes. Big should have been freaked out and bolted when she was stalking his ex and his mother. I don't know why he keeps coming back to her either. They have zero in common, I can't see Big not getting bored with her, she has very few interests and zero interest in developing new ones. She'd be fun to go clubbing but I can't see him not moving on after awhile. Big ends up not being any better when he tries to start the affair even though he's married. He chose to marry and if he's not happy then get a divorce. His constant coming and going. By the end its not so much that yea Big and Carrie are together its more of why are they together or they deserve each other. Neither learn anything from anything they've done in their past. Zero growth, zero reason as to why now its going to last. 

Oh I wholeheartedly agree. Big was intolerable for me in Season 3, from the moment he drunkenly told Carrie at the furniture show “It’s not working out. Do you know anyone who’s interested??”—just eye roll-worthy.  

The one thing during Season 3 that I put Big over Carrie for (although it’s like putting fertilizer over raw sewage), is at least Big didn’t pretend to victimize himself during their affair. Carrie pretended she was some wronged party/victim during their Season 3 shenanigans, which made her just intolerable. She tried to pretend she was the victim of her and Big’s second break-up, tried to pretend she was the sympathetic figure in their affair (despite them BOTH cheating on their caring/loving partners), and tried to pretend she was the sympathetic victim after the affair so spectacularly imploded. I love when Big told her on the street “there’s TWO PEOPLE doing the fucking here Carrie.”. Carrie seemed to want to put herself in the position of somehow being the romantic interest (while being in a long term relationship) without accepting any of the responsibility for knowingly engaging in not only an affair on her partner, but not caring at all about the spouse of the person she was sleeping with all over town. Had she shown actual remorse for the pain she was causing everyone, she might’ve been rootable for me. But she wasn’t

(Season 3 was also when she made clear her disgustingly close-minded feelings of male bisexuality and the Chivon crap I mentioned earlier. Yeah season 3 is when my disdain for Carrie was carved in marble stone) 

[BlueMoon81]

On 12/30/2018 at 2:03 PM, Toodleoo said:

There were always parts of Samantha, Miranda, and (less so) Charlotte that I identified with and still do, but there was damn near nothing about Carrie I found to be relatable. Except maybe the occasional indulgence on a handbag and still not at her spending level.

 

Carrie, and SJP’s portrayal of her, drove me mad. I vaguely remember hearing some trope long ago that we dislike in others the behaviors that most mirror ours so I’ve always been afraid that I’m running around being a total asshole to my friends.  But the affectations that SJP had, the cutesy shit, the constant “hellooo pay attention to me” way of responding to people who weren’t focused on her, and the shrieking screams, oh god those stupid screams, drove/drive me nuts. Shut up shut up shut up! There are specific episodes that I can’t rewatch because there’s going to be a supershriek in them.

 

 

Oh God those shrieks. Carrie started those in Season 4 (going off memory) and they were just intolerable. You could tell when SJP stopped using Candace Bushnell’s source material as inspiration for her portrayal of Carrie, and that constant shrieking was evidence of that

I watched the majority of the show when it originally aired, and Carrie never rang true to me as a heroine back then, and even less now that I’m older. You’re absolutely right ToodLeoo that she showed ZERO GROWTH, ZERO Evolution as a character, which is a main reason she was so unrelatable and unrootable for me. The other 3 main characters showed some tangible growth/evolution, which was great to see play out on screen. Carrie was the same one-dimensional person in the series finale as she was in episode 1 

Seeing how Kim Cattral infused so many layers into what would’ve been a one-dimensional character in the hands of someone else (and Cynthia Nixon and Kristin Davis did the same with their characters), I realize that part of my issue with Carrie is SJP’s portrayal of her. It’s less layered and multi-dimensional as it could’ve been (maybe if SJP hadn’t been given Exec Producer authority during the series, she would’ve stepped her game up more in the later seasons...not to mention those movies) 

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

Oh I wholeheartedly agree. Big was intolerable for me in Season 3, from the moment he drunkenly told Carrie at the furniture show “It’s not working out. Do you know anyone who’s interested??”—just eye roll-worthy.  

The one thing during Season 3 that I put Big over Carrie for (although it’s like putting fertilizer over raw sewage), is at least Big didn’t pretend to victimize himself during their affair. Carrie pretended she was some wronged party/victim during their Season 3 shenanigans, which made her just intolerable. She tried to pretend she was the victim of her and Big’s second break-up, tried to pretend she was the sympathetic figure in their affair (despite them BOTH cheating on their caring/loving partners), and tried to pretend she was the sympathetic victim after the affair so spectacularly imploded. I love when Big told her on the street “there’s TWO PEOPLE doing the fucking here Carrie.”. Carrie seemed to want to put herself in the position of somehow being the romantic interest (while being in a long term relationship) without accepting any of the responsibility for knowingly engaging in not only an affair on her partner, but not caring at all about the spouse of the person she was sleeping with all over town. Had she shown actual remorse for the pain she was causing everyone, she might’ve been rootable for me. But she wasn’t

(Season 3 was also when she made clear her disgustingly close-minded feelings of male bisexuality and the Chivon crap I mentioned earlier. Yeah season 3 is when my disdain for Carrie was carved in marble stone) 

I agree about that. Carrie was worse then Big (I love your remark about like putting fertilizer over raw sewage) I didn't like him complaining about Natasha or beige. Dude you married her, no one forced you to marry her, and if your not happy get a divorce. But yes Carrie acted like she was the victim. No one forced you to cheat Carrie that was your choice. She thinks she's the victim to the point she can't believe that Natasha or Aidan are saying bad things about her AND showing up at Natasha's table in the restaurant. Look at how she talks to Natasha. She doesn't really apologize, she says a lot of self-serving crap, and then Natasha says she's sorry. You can see Carrie completely thinks Natasha is apologizing to her. Carrie truly believes all of her crap and that everyone else believes her crap too. She is shocked, shocked on the rare times that she finds out people don't. She truly believes she's a victim and that Natasha should be apologizing to her. That is really Natasha's fault because she married Big. Until of course Natasha awesomely tells her off. Carrie for once is speechless. She can't say anything but walk away. Of course by the time she's out of the restaurant she's realizing hey Big's single!  

I hated her close minded feelings regarding sex, bisexuality and other stuff. Its really amazing that a woman who writes a sex column would be so closed minded. You'd think she'd be the opposite. 

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

Oh God those shrieks. Carrie started those in Season 4 (going off memory) and they were just intolerable. You could tell when SJP stopped using Candace Bushnell’s source material as inspiration for her portrayal of Carrie, and that constant shrieking was evidence of that

I watched the majority of the show when it originally aired, and Carrie never rang true to me as a heroine back then, and even less now that I’m older. You’re absolutely right ToodLeoo that she showed ZERO GROWTH, ZERO Evolution as a character, which is a main reason she was so unrelatable and unrootable for me. The other 3 main characters showed some tangible growth/evolution, which was great to see play out on screen. Carrie was the same one-dimensional person in the series finale as she was in episode 1 

Seeing how Kim Cattral infused so many layers into what would’ve been a one-dimensional character in the hands of someone else (and Cynthia Nixon and Kristin Davis did the same with their characters), I realize that part of my issue with Carrie is SJP’s portrayal of her. It’s less layered and multi-dimensional as it could’ve been (maybe if SJP hadn’t been given Exec Producer authority during the series, she would’ve stepped her game up more in the later seasons...not to mention those movies) 

I completely agree. The other characters had more layers and more that were added as the series went on Carrie was the only one that didn't. She never changed or grew or learned anything. She was more interesting in the beginning of the series when she seemed to have more friends or did more research for her column and tried to have a sex like a man. She got worse as the series went on. By the end it was hard to see how she had any friends or anyone in her life because she treated everyone like crap and was always about herself, talking about herself. bringing everything back to her, constantly making her friends drop everything to come running to her. And she was very rarely called out from her behavior. She never learns from anything she's done or thinks she ever does anything wrong. Nothing is her fault. It would have been so great to see her learn from her mistakes, get new interests, maybe find different avenues of writing. 

[WendyCR72]

Just read the proposed Brady/Sam pukefest above. Kim Cattrall, you did the world a favor telling SJC HELL NO! to a third film. Did anyone REALLY think that Brady sexting Sam was a good idea?!

Eeeeewwwwwww.

[ByTor]

On 1/1/2019 at 4:53 PM, andromeda331 said:

Of course by the time she's out of the restaurant she's realizing hey Big's single!  

She also realizes Natasha is single...which of course makes it all about her because now Natasha is competition on the dating scene. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 1/1/2019 at 4:40 AM, BlueMoon81 said:

Oh God those shrieks. Carrie started those in Season 4 (going off memory) and they were just intolerable.

I've been re-watching, and you're absolutely right.

It starts at "Sex and the Country" when she shrieks over a squirrel.  (?????? The idiot.  There are squirrels in NYC, aren't there?)

And then she starts doing it at random intervals.  It's INTOLERABLE.

I know that Carrie is an annoying, narcissistic jackass through S3-S4 like

1)  The bullshit bagels with Miranda - well at least she apologized after Miranda called her out
2)  The affair - well at least she stopped after Natasha fell down the stairs (LOL)
3)  Being so narcissistic as to think anyone in the world gives a damn that Natasha "doesn't like her", LOL what an idiot
4)  Letting Big come to the country and telling Aidan he HAD to put up with it.  LOL. The nerve of this bitch

But honestly, I totally tolerate it and enjoy watching it until !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The big Controversial moment that we all scream about when she badgers into Charlotte to loan her $30,000.  That gets my blood boiling, I see red, and I start screaming at the TV.  That's when the show plummets into Demon Zone.  Of course I'll still be watching through it, but boy, did they ruin Carrie with that one.

*One* thing she did that was great was confronting Aidan and telling him that she was NOT READY for marriage even though she was terrified of doing it.  She was actually an adult in that scene.  And when he pushed her, she was smart enough to see through it and ask him what is this really about?

Edited January 5, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've been re-watching, and you're absolutely right.

It starts at "Sex and the Country" when she shrieks over a squirrel.  (?????? The idiot.  There are squirrels in NYC, aren't there?)

And then she starts doing it at random intervals.  It's INTOLERABLE.

I know that Carrie is an annoying, narcissistic jackass through S3-S4 like

1)  The bullshit bagels with Miranda - well at least she apologized after Miranda called her out
2)  The affair - well at least she stopped after Natasha fell down the stairs (LOL)
3)  Being so narcissistic as to think anyone in the world gives a damn that Natasha "doesn't like her", LOL what an idiot
4)  Letting Big come to the country and telling Aidan he HAD to put up with it.  LOL. The nerve of this bitch

But honestly, I totally tolerate it and enjoy watching it until !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The big Controversial moment that we all scream about when she badgers into Charlotte to loan her $30,000.  That gets my blood boiling, I see red, and I start screaming at the TV.  That's when the show plummets into Demon Zone.  Of course I'll still watching, but boy, did they ruin Carrie with that one.

*One* thing she did that was great was confronting Aidan and telling him that she was NOT READY for marriage even though she was terrified of doing it.  She was actually an adult in that scene.  And when he pushed her, she was smart enough to see through it and ask him what is this really about?

I hate that scene. Its so horrible. I absolutely hate the Charlotte gives her the ring. Charlotte had been absolutely right not to give her any money. Carrie was a grown woman in her thirties not some child and she chose to blow all of her money on shoes. She should be the one to get herself out of the mess herself and maybe learn something. I really wish Charlotte had gone off on her. I can't believe the gall of someone showing up at one of their best friend's and badgers her into handing over money because she spend her entire adult life blowing all her money AND getting it. Those five are my top hate moments of Carrie there's so many more but those are the worse.

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's even worse because Charlotte says "I love my ring" and likes to prance around her apartment wearing it.  And why the fuck shouldn't she?  It's for nobody but her!  Her ex was extremely generous with her and did not want the ring or the apartment.  And he fought his OWN MOTHER to make sure she kept the apartment, so he obviously meant it.

And there are so many things that make it worse

- Carrie had $40,000 of shoes in her closet
- Big offered her a loan
- Sam and Miranda offered her the loan if not for Big
- she's not ENTITLED to this apartment, she could fucking move.  

So there's all these ways Carrie had the money but she INSISTED that the ONE person who DID NOT want to help her help her instead.  Fuck her!

[ByTor]

On 1/5/2019 at 11:00 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Carrie had $40,000 of shoes in her closet

And she was so stupid that she did the math and only came up with $4,000.

On 1/5/2019 at 11:00 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

So there's all these ways Carrie had the money but she INSISTED that the ONE person who DID NOT want to help her help her instead.

Because, God forbid, Charlotte was the only one who didn't offer.  But that's ok, Carrie wouldn't have taken it anyway...except that she did!

[Ms Blue Jay]

She's such a snob about taking the bus in S4.  LOL.  What the hell is her problem.  OMG.  I'm getting so mad.  She thinks she's entitled to only take cabs or Big's driver everywhere?  

Edited January 8, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Melancholy]

I believe the etiquette is that a woman should return an engagement ring if she called off the engagement because the ring represents a promise to get married. However, there's no similar etiquette mandating the return of an engagement ring if the woman did get married but got divorced later. Carrie's faux-judgment of Charlotte keeping her ring when Carrie returned hers is IMO completely unfair, as well as none of Carrie's business. 

Trey was generous with Charlotte. Trey could afford to be that generous while IMO Aiden didn't have the money to start handing out apartments and Carrie was the asshole for assuming that Aiden could and should do that for her. Moreover, Trey knew that Charlotte wanted to be married to him and to have the children that they agreed to have during the engagement/in their marriage. Trey's impotence and Trey's disinterest in striving to get children when they weren't conceived easily were the roadblocks in Charlotte and Trey having the marriage that they BOTH pictured at first. However, Charlotte really wanted and worked hard to have the type of marriage plus family that he promised her. She quit her job on Trey’s suggestion (even though I’m sure it was a mild suggestion that Charlotte didn’t have to act on.) With that in mind, Trey wanted to give Charlotte a few of the financial advantages of marriage. 

Carrie, on the other hand, didn't even want to be married to Aiden. She wasted his time and money by pretending that she wanted to be married while she was bitching about having to through with it to her girlfriends from Day 1 of their engagement. When push came to shove, Carire admitted that she didn't want to be married to Aiden. So yeah, why on earth should Aiden give her a few of the financial advantages of marriage if she didn't want to be married? 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Melancholy

[ByTor]

On 1/8/2019 at 1:24 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

She's such a snob about taking the bus in S4.

Speaking of snobs, I'm rewatching the early seasons, and Charlotte was quite the snob.  I can't believe she said to Miranda, about Steve (paraphrasing) "You're dating a guy who relies on tips for a living."  So sorry that offends your delicate little self, Charlotte.

[Ms Blue Jay]

She also wouldn't sleep with an uncircumcised guy, even after Carrie said that 85% of all men are uncircumcised, and was turned on by an adult man getting a circumcision just to sleep with her.  LOL

Currently watching Steve dump Miranda for the first time because he wanted to buy her a nice suit to wear to her work event.  I've always hated Steve, I hate Steve, I will always hate Steve. ;) 

Same episode, I wonder what Hollywood actor Wiley Ford is based on?  He goes to Charlotte's museum and says "How much is this piece?" and her response is "That's a fire extinguisher.... in case of a fire."  HAhahahahaa

It's interesting watching this now, as a REAL adult.  I totally get why people said Carrie pushed Big so much in the beginning.  But you have to remember, I discovered this show as a teenager, so back then I always took Carrie's side :)  I understand everyone else's viewpoints much better now.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Scarlett45]

On 1/8/2019 at 12:43 PM, Melancholy said:

I believe the etiquette is that a woman should return an engagement ring if she called off the engagement because the ring represents a promise to get married. However, there's no similar etiquette mandating the return of an engagement ring if the woman did get married but got divorced later. Carrie's faux-judgment of Charlotte keeping her ring when Carrie returned hers is IMO completely unfair, as well as none of Carrie's business. 

Trey was generous with Charlotte. Trey could afford to be that generous while IMO Aiden didn't have the money to start handing out apartments and Carrie was the asshole for assuming that Aiden could and should do that for her. Moreover, Trey knew that Charlotte wanted to be married to him and to have the children that they agreed to have during the engagement/in their marriage. Trey's impotence and Trey's disinterest in striving to get children when they weren't conceived easily were the roadblocks in Charlotte and Trey having the marriage that they BOTH pictured at first. However, Charlotte really wanted and worked hard to have the type of marriage plus family that he promised her. She quit her job on Trey’s suggestion (even though I’m sure it was a mild suggestion that Charlotte didn’t have to act on.) With that in mind, Trey wanted to give Charlotte a few of the financial advantages of marriage. 

Carrie, on the other hand, didn't even want to be married to Aiden. She wasted his time and money by pretending that she wanted to be married while she was bitching about having to through with it to her girlfriends from Day 1 of their engagement. When push came to shove, Carire admitted that she didn't want to be married to Aiden. So yeah, why on earth should Aiden give her a few of the financial advantages of marriage if she didn't want to be married? 

 

Slow clap. 

 

14 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

She also wouldn't sleep with an uncircumcised guy, even after Carrie said that 85% of all men are uncircumcised, and was turned on by an adult man getting a circumcision just to sleep with her.  LOL

Currently watching Steve dump Miranda for the first time because he wanted to buy her a nice suit to wear to her work event.  I've always hated Steve, I hate Steve, I will always hate Steve. ;) 

Same episode, I wonder what Hollywood actor Wiley Ford is based on?  He goes to Charlotte's museum and says "How much is this piece?" and her response is "That's a fire extinguisher.... in case of a fire."  HAhahahahaa

It's interesting watching this now, as a REAL adult.  I totally get why people said Carrie pushed Big so much in the beginning.  But you have to remember, I discovered this show as a teenager, so back then I always took Carrie's side :)  I understand everyone else's viewpoints much better now.

 

When I turned the same age as the characters when the series started, I fully understood what a dipshit Carrie was. I always knew she was immature but wow. Berating Charlotte to offer to loan her MONEY (thousands and thousands of dollars mind you, not “I left my purse at home kind of money”)- not because she was genuinely in harms way (like a job lay off, health problem or something) but because she didn’t want to move....entitlement to the extreme. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Hmm, yeah, I meant that I always took Carrie's side in S1-S2 with Big.  Once S3 started the show went in a completely totally different direction and I could no longer relate to Carrie anymore - personal opinion.

But watching S1-S2 again 20 years later, I can definitely see how she pushed him.

There was no age that I ever was in my life where I thought Carrie was being reasonable to Charlotte in that plot.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[BlueMoon81]

17 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

When I turned the same age as the characters when the series started, I fully understood what a dipshit Carrie was. I always knew she was immature but wow. Berating Charlotte to offer to loan her MONEY (thousands and thousands of dollars mind you, not “I left my purse at home kind of money”)- not because she was genuinely in harms way (like a job lay off, health problem or something) but because she didn’t want to move....entitlement to the extreme. 

It’s amazing how your view of the show changes as you get older. I watched the show when it aired, and I was in the last year of high school and college at the time. Carrie’s narration of being “irrationally angry” was what I found comical....but her treatment of Charlotte was the height of entitlement and arrogance. Charlotte didn’t owe her a damn penny, nor did she owe it to Carrie to even offer it to her. Not to mention....Big offered her a no-strings-attached loan to buy her apartment. And he didn’t offer it to her because he had some smarmy ulterior motive, or to lord it over her face....he loaned it to her because he saw that she was in a financial cul-de-sac (of her own making), and realized that he could help. But of course, Carrie can’t just let Big help her...that would ruin the narrative of “big, bad, Big always takes advantage of/stomps all over innocent victim Carrie” *eye roll*. So she makes some dramatic gesture of tearing up his check. She wasn’t entitled to that apartment, she could’ve moved to a more affordable one, or one in Jersey City (I grew up in northern N.J., right outside NYC....it is as fast paced and diverse as an NYC borough is). But of course, Carrie is entitled to the life of a Manhattan Princess, so Charlotte has to pony up the funds. It’s just vomit-inducing in retrospect

 

and I’ve seen the comments in the last year or two from certain writers and producers on the shown about that episode...they still try and defend the awful writing of Carrie’s character in that episode 

[izabella]

7 minutes ago, BlueMoon81 said:

and I’ve seen the comments in the last year or two from certain writers and producers on the shown about that episode...they still try and defend the awful writing of Carrie’s character in that episode 

I can't imagine what they could say to defend it!

[andromeda331]

Neither can I. Charlotte was under no obligation to give Carrie the money. Carrie wasn't about to lose her apartment due to losing her job, taking a paycut or anything like that. She was broke entirely of her own making. She chose to blow all her money on shoes. It was her own fault! She should have had to get herself out of it and maybe learn something (unlikely). Carrie gets offers from Big, Samantha and Miranda which I hate that even Samantha and Miranda don't blink an eye and offer her money. It was her fault and not their responsibility. But she had offers from three different people and goes to badger the one person who won't give her money and badgers her until she gets the ring. That scene either should have never happened or should have ended with Charlotte throwing her out and ending their relationship or at least until Carrie apologized (which also never would happen).

[Melancholy]

I think Miranda was actually a little silly to offer the money. She had a baby on the way. An actual baby, not a Carrie-baby. I’ve no doubt Miranda believed she could swing the loan in normal circumstances but what if there were special circumstances. What if she lost her job or wanted to get a less stressful, Lower paying job because of the unexpected demands of being a single mother? What if her child was born with special needs? Miranda needed her life savings. Samantha could more responsibly loan the money but even for her, she was also planning on donating her life savings. 

Charlotte was being prudent. Everyone was acting like she was set from the divorce but the later plot shows that Bunny would contest giving Charlotte the apartment because Trey didn’t actually own it. If Bunny won back the apartment, Charlotte could face financial issues even with the million dollar prenup amount unless she had more reserves from her parents (which is possible but not stated.)

Big is the only gazillionare here who wouldn’t miss the money. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Melancholy

[Ms Blue Jay]

11 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

and I’ve seen the comments in the last year or two from certain writers and producers on the shown about that episode...they still try and defend the awful writing of Carrie’s character in that episode 

Those people are sick and deluded.  Truly.  Writers: When everyone says you are crazy, maybe you should look inward.  How could everyone be on board with this, including SJP as a producer?  They're so out of touch.

2 hours ago, Melancholy said:

I think Miranda was actually a little silly to offer the money. She had a baby on the way.

I forget what poster said it first, but basically Miranda licked Carrie's ass way too much and this was a great example.

Oh, re: the screaming, I found some instances of Carrie shrieking in Season 3, but they didn't seem as egregious as the Squirrel Moment - one tiny shriek that leapt out of her actually was funny, and other one was when Sam and Carrie were walking through a weird hood in LA and Dobermans started barking after them, so it actually made sense.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[izabella]

Was there any mention, ever, of Carrie paying Charlotte back?  

The ring thing is so stupid, anyway.  It may have cost $40,000 or whatever, but there is no way that Carrie got anywhere near that much when she sold it.   It wouldn't have been enough money, full stop. 

[Melancholy]

12 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

She wasn’t entitled to that apartment, she could’ve moved to a more affordable one, or one in Jersey City (I grew up in northern N.J., right outside NYC....it is as fast paced and diverse as an NYC borough is). But of course, Carrie is entitled to the life of a Manhattan Princess, so Charlotte has to pony up the funds. It’s just vomit-inducing in retrospect

A lot of people complain about having to commute to a big city like Manhattan for their job because it's so expensive to live in the city itself. The funny thing is that Carrie didn't even have that problem- she works from home. I would imagine that she could live outside of Manhattan as long as she was "commuting" to Manhattan to fuck guys and socialize with her friends and go to clubs i.e. the "Sex and the City" content of her column. Those off-hours commutes aren't as taxing as the grind of rush hour commutes every work day. I think this series neglected to do some interesting character-exploration in how the demands of the Sex and the City column shape Carrie's psyche. I think you could definitely make the case that Carrie felt pressured to have a very specific lifestyle- the quirky, single NYC heroine who always "can't help but wonder" because she's perpetual adorable ingenue- because that was her column persona. I think that the column plays a role in shaping her to refusal to live anywhere but Manhattan or to chase after Big, an emotionally unavailable man, instead of marrying Aiden or her paranoia that Natasha or Nina Katz are living their own lives where Carrie is actually the villain of their story instead of the heroine. That was some rich, meta-ground that should have come up in her therapy sessions or lunches with the girls. As it is, I really see the column as a negative force on her psyche in the show. "Why do you have to take the bus if you're on the bus?" "My thoughts exactly!"

Later in the series, it would unthinkable that Miranda would hector her friends for money so that she, Steve, and Brady could live in a *Manhattan apartment* with enough space. Those apartments do exist for the wealthy i.e. Heaven on Fifth. Heck, maybe Miranda could have swung that if she ended up with Robert instead of picking Steve. The series delivered a strong message that Miranda had an obligation as a wife and mother to live in the best place that her family could afford, even if it means giving up on the excitement and cool of living in Manhattan. The series was clear-eyed that Miranda wasn't owed big city glamour. That was the mature message but it's interesting that the series can deliver such clear-eyed messages but Carrie is the special snowflake immune to reality. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Melancholy

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, izabella said:

Was there any mention, ever, of Carrie paying Charlotte back?  

The ring thing is so stupid, anyway.  It may have cost $40,000 or whatever, but there is no way that Carrie got anywhere near that much when she sold it.   It wouldn't have been enough money, full stop. 

No, it was never ever mentioned again. Not even in the episode where Carrie receives money from her book and buys Berger a present. That would have been the perfect time but it never came up. They also could have shown Carrie occasionally giving Charlotte money to show that she was paying her back. Because it was never shown is exactly why I think she never paid her back. That and she still doesn't change any of her habits. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

The show seemed to have a particular resentment towards Charlotte for getting to marry Kyle MacLachlan for a few months or whatever it was and that Charlotte was horrible for keeping her own possessions and therefore OWED Carrie somehow. Oh, it gets me so riled up.

Very interesting thoughts @Melancholy.  I just saw the episode Drama Queens where Aidan treats her well and she can't handle it.  At least there were great moments on the show where her friends very assertively called her out on her shit:

1.  Carrie ditches Miranda because Big "bought veal" - but then Miranda gets no apology from Carrie even though she was A TOTAL asshole.  Instead, Miranda meets Steve and it seems all is forgotten/forgiven.
2.  Carrie says she can't give up smoking because it's integral to who she is (LOL) and Charlotte firmly says they all hate her smoking and wish she would quit but they put up with it because they love her.
3.  Charlotte says it's ridiculous to reject a man (Aidan) because he's too available.
4.  The bullshit bagels.
5.  When her friends told her to shut the fuck up about Big and get some therapy.  "It's like the blind leading the blind."

There have also been some great posts on here in the past about how Miranda had to sacrifice many things or compromise or change her entire personality and lifestyle just to get Steve - as if he's some kind of prize and not one of my most hated pop culture characters of all time - but I'll press pause on that point so that my heart doesn't start to race.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Melancholy said:

A lot of people complain about having to commute to a big city like Manhattan for their job because it's so expensive to live in the city itself. The funny thing is that Carrie didn't even have that problem- she works from home. I would imagine that she could live outside of Manhattan as long as she was "commuting" to Manhattan to fuck guys and socialize with her friends and go to clubs i.e. the "Sex and the City" content of her column. Those off-hours commutes aren't as taxing as the grind of rush hour commutes every work day. I think this series neglected to do some interesting character-exploration in how the demands of the Sex and the City column shape Carrie's psyche. I think you could definitely make the case that Carrie felt pressured to have a very specific lifestyle- the quirky, single NYC heroine who always "can't help but wonder" because she's perpetual adorable ingenue- because that was her column persona. I think that the column plays a role in shaping her to refusal to live anywhere but Manhattan or to chase after Big, an emotionally unavailable man, instead of marrying Aiden or her paranoia that Natasha or Nina Katz are living their own lives where Carrie is actually the villain of their story instead of the heroine. That was some rich, meta-ground that should have come up in her therapy sessions or lunches with the girls. As it is, I really see the column as a negative force on her psyche in the show. "Why do you have to take the bus if you're on the bus?" "My thoughts exactly!"

Later in the series, it would unthinkable that Miranda would hector her friends for money so that she, Steve, and Brady could live in a *Manhattan apartment* with enough space. Those apartments do exist for the wealthy i.e. Heaven on Fifth. Heck, maybe Miranda could have swung that if she ended up with Robert instead of picking Steve. The series delivered a strong message that Miranda had an obligation as a wife and mother to live in the best place that her family could afford, even if it means giving up on the excitement and cool of living in Manhattan. The series was clear-eyed that Miranda wasn't owed big city glamour. That was the mature message but it's interesting that the series can deliver such clear-eyed messages but Carrie is the special snowflake immune to reality. 

I agree and that's what's annoying. They show Miranda who clearly loves Manhattan too but she makes the decision that's best for her and her family. Stay in a cramp apartment or move to Brooklyn which gave them what they needed. They couldn't afford to stay or move to a bigger apartment. But instead of acting like a gigantic baby and complaining, whining and then going around to friends to yell at them to give her money so she stay in Manhattan Miranda makes the choice to move to Brooklyn. Yes, its hard for her but she still does it. Now she's someone who works for a living makes good money and has a husband also with a job. Meanwhile Carrie had one job occasionally two with Vogue and blows all of her money on shoes. Not only expects but demands to be bailed out. And gets it. Then goes on her merry way to continue to blow all her money. She doesn't even change after that and start putting money in savings. Why? Oh, wait because she's Carrie for some reason she's entitled and gets it. While I do think Charlotte was partly responsible for the break up of her marriage. She still got married, tried to work out their issues, and when it became clear it wasn't going to work ended it. That is not the same as Carrie who was engaged even though she didn't want to and then is stunned to learn that Aiden wasn't going to let her keep the apartment for free. Even though its completely clear Aiden couldn't afford it. Who cares about that right? Charlotte got the apartment because Trey got it to happen. The million because of the prenup. She wasn't just handed these things. That's not the same as Carrie's situation. She got them in a divorce. In the break up of her marriage which was hard for her. And Charlotte did not have to hand over her ring if she didn't want to. Lots of women who are divorced hang onto their rings. There's nothing wrong with it. Samantha moved too although I think she was looking for a different place and she had money to do so. Only Princess Carrie didn't because she didn't bother to save anything in her entire adult life. Which is really, really stupid. And instead of doing anything herself. Finding a place she could afford, moving in with a friend until she had money for a better place, finding more work beyond just getting hired at Vogue or anything else. Nope, all she does is badger a friend into giving up her ring and she doesn't have to do anything. Not even change her lifestyle or pay her back. How nice for her.

[Ms Blue Jay]

17 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

 Samantha moved too although I think she was looking for a different place and she had money to do so. 

Just watched this one.  It seems that Samantha had a rent controlled apartment on the UES but one night, while she had a man over they inadvertently let in a burglar who ended up fucking up an old lady's eye.  She couldn't take the scrutiny anymore and the judgement/haranguing from her old ass neighbours so she had to move.  She had to move to the Meatpacking District and the show made it very clear in voiceover that her rent went WAY up = SACRIFICE.

Miranda's a fucking idiot to choose Steve over Robert ;)  I say that with love..... in the early episodes with Steve he fucking stalks her and fucking pesters her until she lets him into her life.  Oh it makes me so mad, ah ah ahaaaaaaaaaah

There ain't no way in hell Carrie paid Charlotte even 1 dollar of that loan back ;)  Wouldn't be in character, nope nope nope.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Just watched this one.  It seems that Samantha had a rent controlled apartment on the UES but one night, while she had a man over they inadvertently let in a burglar who ended up fucking up an old lady's eye.  She couldn't take the scrutiny anymore and the judgement/haranguing from her old ass neighbours so she had to move.  She had to move to the Meatpacking District and the show made it very clear in voiceover that her rent went WAY up = SACRIFICE.

Miranda's a fucking idiot to choose Steve over Robert ;)  I say that with love..... in the early episodes with Steve he fucking stalks her and fucking pesters her until she lets him into her life.  Oh it makes me so mad, ah ah ahaaaaaaaaaah

There ain't no way in hell Carrie paid Charlotte even 1 dollar of that loan back ;)  Wouldn't be in character, nope nope nope.

I completely forgot that was the reason! Robert was awesome. Everyone makes a sacrifice except Carrie. 

[Melancholy]

18 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

No, it was never ever mentioned again. Not even in the episode where Carrie receives money from her book and buys Berger a present. That would have been the perfect time but it never came up. They also could have shown Carrie occasionally giving Charlotte money to show that she was paying her back. Because it was never shown is exactly why I think she never paid her back. That and she still doesn't change any of her habits. 

Carrie makes a big belligerent argument about how her new gig at Vogue means she's particularly likely to pay Charlotte back. Then in the next ep, Carrie apparently write an article for Vogue that's far more about sex than fashion and doesn't bring a pen to her first meeting with her editor to take down notes. Carrie is bitterly offended at her first piece getting harshly criticized- even though harsh criticism is the diet of most periodical writers.  After her first meeting, Carrie gets hammered at Vogue's offices. Yes, she drank at Julian's invitation but it was her fault that she drank so above her limits that she couldn't even walk out of the building unassisted. A 35-year "professional party gal" should know how much she can drink without devolving into a sloppy mess. Then, she wanted to quit because Enid was critical of her first submitted piece and only first stayed because Julian buttered her up (with his designs to sleep with her) and then, Enid warmed to her. She never considers for a second whether she can pay Charlotte back without this vaunted Vogue gig and whether she has an obligation to try to stick it out through, like, her second piece or something.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Melancholy

[Dr.OO7]

On 1/13/2019 at 5:42 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Miranda's a fucking idiot to choose Steve over Robert ;)  I say that with love..... in the early episodes with Steve he fucking stalks her and fucking pesters her until she lets him into her life.  Oh it makes me so mad, ah ah ahaaaaaaaaaah

Was she ever.

I really hated that about this show--the double standard regarding the Stalking Is Love trope. While there's no denying Carrie could be stalkerish and clingy with Big, why is it when she does it, it's rightfully portrayed as pathetic/crazy/annoying, but when Big stalks HER and basically forces himself on her, it's sexy and romantic?

It's even worse with Steve. Miranda makes it clear that she wants nothing more than their one-night stand, but we're supposed to find it cute and sweet that he shows up at her place uninvited and unannounced, demanding to be let in, not to mention awesome that he tells her off and tells her she needs to stop being so uptight.

I couldn't stand those two together. Throughout their entire on-again/off-again relationship, she seemed angry or annoyed with him most of the time (Steve was irritating as hell, but Miranda was a grade-A bitch). Yet literally out of nowhere, she declares she's madly in love with him and acts like a complete bitch to and about his new girlfriend.

I wasn't surprised at all that marriage in the movie was strained.

I liked her with Robert best, because at least when he tried to get her to loosen up, he didn't try to force the issue.

[blondiec0332]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 5:35 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

There have also been some great posts on here in the past about how Miranda had to sacrifice many things or compromise or change her entire personality and lifestyle just to get Steve - as if he's some kind of prize and not one of my most hated pop culture characters of all time - but I'll press pause on that point so that my heart doesn't start to race.

I liked the idea of Steve but not the character Steve.  If that makes sense.  I liked the idea Miranda would be with a guy who wasn't quite on the same level as her.  But I didn't think the Steve was written well at all.  And IMO the actors had zero chemistry.

[andromeda331]

44 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

I liked the idea of Steve but not the character Steve.  If that makes sense.  I liked the idea Miranda would be with a guy who wasn't quite on the same level as her.  But I didn't think the Steve was written well at all.  And IMO the actors had zero chemistry.

It does. I like the idea too of Miranda ending up with a blue collar person or someone so different then she would have thought. But they were often inconsistent with Steve starting with changing him from a bartender who read Chekov to someone who watched Scooby Doo. Switching back and forth on Miranda happy with him or angry with him. Like one episode she's happy and happy to do his laundry and the very next one she's suddenly sick of him. One episode the one about the suit on one hand I get why its no big deal for Miranda and would have made for interesting problem or different places they are money wise. But instead he over reacted and they broke up.

[Melancholy]

I completely agree that I like the idea of Miranda ending up with a laid back, happy-go-lucky blue collar person but Steve was written and acted very poorly. I pretty much never liked Steve. He either seemed nasty or insipid or both. 

Miranda was an odd combination of push-over sweetie pie and hard-as-nails bitch. It was interesting but frustrating. I feel like Miranda had this exhausting bitchy affect of perpetually making harsh remarks and coming to most social interaction with a strident, harsh "You wanna piece of me" vibe. However on the deeper stuff, Miranda was so generous and self-effacing and self-abnegating to the point that she didn't look out for her interests. Like loaning Carrie the apartment money when she had a baby on the way. Or begging Carrie round the clock for forgiveness in the first movie for....blurting out that marriage can suck and fail to twice-divorced Big. Or letting Steve stay on her couch after they broke up and then, going apartment-shopping with him. Or starting raising Brady from the get-go by refusing any of Steve's financial or time help. Charlotte was the opposite. Charlotte had a very sweet, dainty, adorable affect but she'd quietly and relentlessly focus on getting exactly what she wanted out of life. Sometimes Charlotte would be phony that way but mainly, Charlotte was clear-eyed about catching flies with honey but still never giving up her wants for anyone and thus, lived her life smarter than Harvard!Miranda. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Someone brought bagels to the office today.  You all know where this is going.  For 24 bagels they brought one small container of garden vegetable cream cheese which was long gone by the time I made it to the kitchen.  So, yes, we had bullshit bagels!

[Gothish520]

On 1/13/2019 at 10:34 AM, Melancholy said:

I think Miranda was actually a little silly to offer the money. She had a baby on the way. An actual baby, not a Carrie-baby. I’ve no doubt Miranda believed she could swing the loan in normal circumstances but what if there were special circumstances. What if she lost her job or wanted to get a less stressful, Lower paying job because of the unexpected demands of being a single mother? What if her child was born with special needs? Miranda needed her life savings. Samantha could more responsibly loan the money but even for her, she was also planning on donating her life savings. 

Charlotte was being prudent. Everyone was acting like she was set from the divorce but the later plot shows that Bunny would contest giving Charlotte the apartment because Trey didn’t actually own it. If Bunny won back the apartment, Charlotte could face financial issues even with the million dollar prenup amount unless she had more reserves from her parents (which is possible but not stated.)

Big is the only gazillionare here who wouldn’t miss the money. 

Charlotte was being prudent, but...if everyone you know offers to help without hesitation, the one friend who doesn't is going to look like an ass, point-blank. As an example, albeit on a much smaller scale, if you are the only person at the table not offering to pick up the dinner check, well sorry but that makes you look bad.

I believe that Carrie's reaction to Charlotte not offering the money was much more nuanced than described here. Carrie was hurt that Charlotte didn't offer to help, because she felt that it was a testament to how Charlotte felt about Carrie and their friendship. It wasn't like Carrie rejected all offers because she felt that Charlotte was the only person she would ever take money from - it played out the way it did because both women were making points and letting their feelings show. Charlotte giving Carrie the ring was an apology for hurting Carrie by not offering initially (however one may feel about that). 

[Gothish520]

On 1/13/2019 at 10:20 PM, andromeda331 said:

I completely forgot that was the reason! Robert was awesome. Everyone makes a sacrifice except Carrie. 

Robert showed his true colors when they broke up - bleh. Miranda made the right choice, and it was her choice - she told Steve she loved him and wanted him back even though Steve had sucked it up and moved on, and was in a relationship with a sweet girl who clearly loved him. But Steve always loved Miranda so it was no surprise that he jumped at the chance to be with her again. Still one of my favorite scenes from the show!