S11.E02: Comeback Girls

[RazzleberryPie]

I've said Yuko seems nice but her dancing isn't great - arm extensions are bad, she doesn't seem to have control or fluidity and she looks like she doesn't finish moves. Like a cute little T-Rex dancing. Sleeves and poms will hide some of this. 

Same goes for Madeline. Last year I said NO WAY. This year, she looks so much better, but when they showed her solo - maybe she was marking it - she looked like she wasn't going full out. All of her tricks looked unfinished and half executed. If she is a studio rat,  and dance darling, I'd like to know how well the studio did in competitions. She looks very unfinished.

[LaurenBrook]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate that Mandy can do pushups with her legs up over her shoulders...like...WHAT?!?!? Serious girl crush on that one, wow.  

[RazzleberryPie]

Yeah seriously let's put Mandy and Jay in a push up contest. I have faith in her fitness 

[MyFavShows]

7 hours ago, LaurenBrook said:

Can we just take a moment to appreciate that Mandy can do pushups with her legs up over her shoulders...like...WHAT?!?!? Serious girl crush on that one, wow.  

My 13 year old daughter saw that - got on the floor and tried them - she was able to do 5 on her first try.   My daughter is naturally strong and flexible, but less impressed once I saw she could do them on the first try.   Lol.  I guess Mandy is 28 though so it's not the same, but still, it's not some super human feat that no one can do.  I bet a lot of women who are serious about yoga and weight training can do those.

Edited September 13, 2016 by MyFavShows

[MyFavShows]

8 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I've said Yuko seems nice but her dancing isn't great - arm extensions are bad, she doesn't seem to have control or fluidity and she looks like she doesn't finish moves. Like a cute little T-Rex dancing. Sleeves and poms will hide some of this. 

Same goes for Madeline. Last year I said NO WAY. This year, she looks so much better, but when they showed her solo - maybe she was marking it - she looked like she wasn't going full out. All of her tricks looked unfinished and half executed. If she is a studio rat,  and dance darling, I'd like to know how well the studio did in competitions. She looks very unfinished.

Madeline had a lot of pretty glaring technique issues from the footage shown - she comes across as one of the dancers who came from a studio where impressive tricks and excessive turning are emphasized over good ballet technique.   I hate to say this, but I'm starting to think that's the type of thing that the DCC goes for though - especially after seeing that black and red solo of Melissa's in the full version.   Very typical of "tricks over technique" studios around me.

Edited September 13, 2016 by MyFavShows

[RazzleberryPie]

8 hours ago, MyFavShows said:

Madeline had a lot of pretty glaring technique issues from the footage shown - she comes across as one of the dancers who came from a studio where impressive tricks and excessive turning are emphasized over good ballet technique.   I hate to say this, but I'm starting to think that's the type of thing that the DCC goes for though - especially after seeing that black and red solo of Melissa's in the full version.   Very typical of "tricks over technique" studios around me.

I completely agree, except Melissa does have good technique. Really good. She seems to love the tricks, but doesn't need to rely on them. 

Erica's solo last year (I think its on the CMT site or at least youtube) was so boring to me and looked like a whole lot of tricks strung together and not fully executed. Not as weak as Madeline looked at Kitty's this year, but not on the Holly/Megan/Melissa/Jenn T. That was really surprising, too, because the year Kitty told Erica her hair was bad, her solo was so much better. 

I know she's gone and it's over and done, but Kat actually has really, really good technique and placement. I guess she just lacked DCC power. I didn't think her solo was that bad. The ribbon was distracting, but the girl has great technique.

[JC123]

Ohhhh that reminds me, Kat mentioned her tights ripping in an Instagram post: 

[cherryblossom]

Tricks can be some of the more gymnastics moves we see or use of props while technique has to do with pointed feet, non sickled feet, finishing out a movement from the body completely out to her fingertips.

[MyFavShows]

Tricks over technique would be a dance solo filled w/ things like aeriels, tumbling, various impressive things that usually involve going upside down and popping back up in impressive ways - basically a lot of "wow - that was really cool,  how does she do that?l" moments.   However, when you really start to look and the dancer's feet, knees, body positioning and turnout while they are doing this stuff you realize it's not balletically correct (which explains why they don't just dance as much but instead distract their audience w/ impressive tricks).

In the slow mos of Madeline's dancing, you see lots of not quite straight knees, sickled feet, turned in hips, and just poor positioning in her leaps.    But then when you watch someone like say that Mandy in the white costume, or Heather O, their technique is very clean even in the slo mo shots.  They may have had tricks in their solos too (I don't know cause I didn't see the full solos), but their footage had much better technique than Madeline's.  Kat has exceptional technique regardless of if she's doing a trick or just dancing, quite a few of them do - but I'm starting to think that Kelli and the judges care a lot more about the tricks.

Edited September 14, 2016 by MyFavShows

[tobeyoungagain]

13 hours ago, JC123 said:

Ohhhh that reminds me, Kat mentioned her tights ripping in an Instagram post: 

ugh I'm sure that did NOT go over well with K+J+C.  I'm getting the feeling that they like the vets to look like the unobtainable image of perfection.

[ByTor]

What if it tore during her solo?  Nothing she could do about that short of running off mid-dance.

[Guest]

I think Kat said on a comment somewhere that she went through 4 or more pairs of hose during that day.

[PBSLover]

Maybe the ribbon or something from her costume kept catching.  Oh well.

[GAgirl]

8 minutes ago, Gabrielle Tracy said:

Thank you!  That makes sense.  So. Olivia from a few seasons back...was she considered to be a dancer with good technique?  I watched her solo and there wasn't a bunch of upside down stuff but her movements all looked very elegant to me.  I'm guessing Kelsey and Melissa might be more toward the "tricks" end of the scale.  Not sure about Holly but it's tough to take your eyes off of her either way.

I was going to mention Olivia! I honestly feel like judges just want the "wow" factor, whether you have it by doing 20 tricks or having flawless technique. If they can hold judge's attention, that's what I think matters to them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The really unfortunate thing is that K&J rarely take advantage of the tricks and technique that the various DCC have. Instead it's the same old dated looking choreography year after year. It makes all the split leaps, back handsprings, and fouettes some of the girls can do superfluous after auditions. If I were the choreographer, I would go through a list of wow techniques and tricks the first week of training camp to see how many girls could do what and then incorporate them into the transitions of the routines (e.g. the six girls who can do eight clean fouettes in a row will do so while everyone else changes formation behind them or the ten girls who can do perfect switch leaps will do that while everyone else does the requisite booty shaking behind them for four counts).

[parrotfeathers]

I thought Olivia was considered a professional ballet dancer?  Or at least good enough to be one?   I thought that season they considered her to be very fragile and was afraid she was going to get hurt.  But I imagine a lot of things that aren't really there.

[MyFavShows]

LOL - if Olvia really was a professionally trained ballet dancer from a credible ballet program, I bet her instructors had heart attacks and disowned/blacklisted her for doing the DCC.  Those ballet people are about as snooty and proper as you can get, and would consider something like the DCC the rock bottom of the dance world - haha! - they would probably consider it far worse than actually stripping cause at least stripping isn't as public (and it pays a lot better).   At least this has been my experience w/ the personality types in hard core ballet programs - they have standards of excellence that you would not believe.

[KellyAnn3]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The really unfortunate thing is that K&J rarely take advantage of the tricks and technique that the various DCC have. Instead it's the same old dated looking choreography year after year. It makes all the split leaps, back handsprings, and fouettes some of the girls can do superfluous after auditions. If I were the choreographer, I would go through a list of wow techniques and tricks the first week of training camp to see how many girls could do what and then incorporate them into the transitions of the routines (e.g. the six girls who can do eight clean fouettes in a row will do so while everyone else changes formation behind them or the ten girls who can do perfect switch leaps will do that while everyone else does the requisite booty shaking behind them for four counts).

I've been telling my mom (the only person who will ever half watch with me) pretty much the exact same thing for a few years now. These girls are so talented beyond awkward boot tapping and the lumbar dislocation looking move. The ones who can do tricks should be called upon to do them. It'd be a breath of fresh air to see more of the non-unison routines like the show group one we saw from Denise from LSU.

[ShellyB]

On September 9, 2016 at 0:01 AM, cheerbear said:

Also curious about this.  Why not have Kitty as a judge?  Or some of the guest choreographers they use?  You know, people who actually know something about dance??

@ElectricBoogaloo...we do have girls show us what they have up their sleeves, you just don't always see it. 

[RazzleberryPie]

9 hours ago, parrotfeathers said:

I thought Olivia was considered a professional ballet dancer?  Or at least good enough to be one?   I thought that season they considered her to be very fragile and was afraid she was going to get hurt.  But I imagine a lot of things that aren't really there.

Olivia had danced professional and I think is now. She wasn't my fave but I've got to give props where they're due. They considered her fragile when they were doing cheer stunts. Olivia is not fragile or untrained in dance, but she may not have a cheer background and lacked experience in getting tossed and thrown in the air. Huge difference in a ballet lift and a basket toss or pyramid or whatever. I did one whole year of middle school cheer and that's my extent so if I used wrong terminology sorry.

8 hours ago, MyFavShows said:

LOL - if Olvia really was a professionally trained ballet dancer from a credible ballet program, I bet her instructors had heart attacks and disowned/blacklisted her for doing the DCC.  Those ballet people are about as snooty and proper as you can get, and would consider something like the DCC the rock bottom of the dance world - haha! - they would probably consider it far worse than actually stripping cause at least stripping isn't as public (and it pays a lot better).   At least this has been my experience w/ the personality types in hard core ballet programs - they have standards of excellence that you would not believe.

Pro ballet is usually super snooty, Many consider any other form of dance inferior, and yeah, DCC would be lower on the snoot scale than The Royal Ballet, but more along the lines of amusement park dancing, cruise lines or music videos. I'm talking Disney and Britney, not carnies and basement rap videos - that's rock bottom for serious dancers. 

Stripping - even fancy stripping - would be rock bottom. Maybe 1% of strippers look like the fancy ones on TV shows. 

Olivia wasn't blacklisted, because she is still working, and DCC is a far more technical team and legit brand than any other sports team. Olivia may be one of the best DCC technically, but that doesn't mean she was Misty Copeland NYC prima ballerina best or she'd be there. If she even wanted to be there instead of Texas. Snobs I'm that ballet world sneer at everyone not on their circle, so no biggie.

[Guest]

This probably isn't the right place for this, but Olivia is on a new show. Some of the retired DCCs went to see her the other day. It was some sort of Jesus Broadway type thing, not JC Super Star but close.

[tobeyoungagain]

2 hours ago, heatherrrrz said:

This probably isn't the right place for this, but Olivia is on a new show. Some of the retired DCCs went to see her the other day. It was some sort of Jesus Broadway type thing, not JC Super Star but close.

yay!  loved Olivia ... kitty's son really did her wrong!

[DanceChick]

On 9/14/2016 at 4:38 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The really unfortunate thing is that K&J rarely take advantage of the tricks and technique that the various DCC have. Instead it's the same old dated looking choreography year after year. It makes all the split leaps, back handsprings, and fouettes some of the girls can do superfluous after auditions. If I were the choreographer, I would go through a list of wow techniques and tricks the first week of training camp to see how many girls could do what and then incorporate them into the transitions of the routines (e.g. the six girls who can do eight clean fouettes in a row will do so while everyone else changes formation behind them or the ten girls who can do perfect switch leaps will do that while everyone else does the requisite booty shaking behind them for four counts).

Most of those "tricks" would look strange and/or be very difficult in boots on a field. I can't imagine fouettes and switch leaps looking good, and someone would probably break an ankle haha. Save it for show group IMO.

[ShellyB]

On 9/15/2016 at 6:49 AM, RazzleberryPie said:

Olivia had danced professional and I think is now. She wasn't my fave but I've got to give props where they're due. They considered her fragile when they were doing cheer stunts. Olivia is not fragile or untrained in dance, but she may not have a cheer background and lacked experience in getting tossed and thrown in the air. Huge difference in a ballet lift and a basket toss or pyramid or whatever. I did one whole year of middle school cheer and that's my extent so if I used wrong terminology sorry.

Pro ballet is usually super snooty, Many consider any other form of dance inferior, and yeah, DCC would be lower on the snoot scale than The Royal Ballet, but more along the lines of amusement park dancing, cruise lines or music videos. I'm talking Disney and Britney, not carnies and basement rap videos - that's rock bottom for serious dancers. 

Stripping - even fancy stripping - would be rock bottom. Maybe 1% of strippers look like the fancy ones on TV shows. 

Olivia wasn't blacklisted, because she is still working, and DCC is a far more technical team and legit brand than any other sports team. Olivia may be one of the best DCC technically, but that doesn't mean she was Misty Copeland NYC prima ballerina best or she'd be there. If she even wanted to be there instead of Texas. Snobs I'm that ballet world sneer at everyone not on their circle, so no biggie.

Not blacklisted at all. The studio where Olivia grew up has been listed twice as a top 20 studio in America and has produced 5 national winners from two excellent dance convention programs. Olivia was actually runner up to her friend and classmate. There are alum from the studio dancing literally, all over the world, in companies, major cruise lines, etc. Jessica Simpson and her sister Ashley were at one time students, Ashley was one of the national winners. Olivia is one of 5 from the studio that have been DCC's, Claire is the most recent. And two of her teachers are former DCC's, myself being one of them. In a nutshell, we probably are a "ballet snob" studio because it is the foundation of technique. But the studio staff is immensely proud of all the kids that continue dancing. For Olivia, this was just one facet of her dancing career...she's still killing it on stage. 

[ShellyB]

On 9/14/2016 at 10:14 PM, MyFavShows said:

LOL - if Olvia really was a professionally trained ballet dancer from a credible ballet program, I bet her instructors had heart attacks and disowned/blacklisted her for doing the DCC.  Those ballet people are about as snooty and proper as you can get, and would consider something like the DCC the rock bottom of the dance world - haha! - they would probably consider it far worse than actually stripping cause at least stripping isn't as public (and it pays a lot better).   At least this has been my experience w/ the personality types in hard core ballet programs - they have standards of excellence that you would not believe.

Very reputable program, scholarship to college, professional companies after graduating, then DCC, now in musicals in DFW & NYC. Her résumé is long and impressive. All of her former teachers are very proud of her ?

[LaurenBrook]

7 hours ago, ShellyB said:

Not blacklisted at all. The studio where Olivia grew up has been listed twice as a top 20 studio in America and has produced 5 national winners from two excellent dance convention programs. Olivia was actually runner up to her friend and classmate. There are alum from the studio dancing literally, all over the world, in companies, major cruise lines, etc. Jessica Simpson and her sister Ashley were at one time students, Ashley was one of the national winners. Olivia is one of 5 from the studio that have been DCC's, Claire is the most recent. And two of her teachers are former DCC's, myself being one of them. In a nutshell, we probably are a "ballet snob" studio because it is the foundation of technique. But the studio staff is immensely proud of all the kids that continue dancing. For Olivia, this was just one facet of her dancing career...she's still killing it on stage. 

Ahh! that helps explain claire's beautiful technique! love her - wish they showed more of her on the show. 

[MyFavShows]

Was Olivia at a prepro ballet program who's goal was to produce professional ballerinas, or a dance studio that did competitions and conventions? - there is a BIG difference.   Someone said upthread that she was a trained to be a professional ballerina.

[tobeyoungagain]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 11:48 AM, MyFavShows said:

Was Olivia at a prepro ballet program who's goal was to produce professional ballerinas, or a dance studio that did competitions and conventions? - there is a BIG difference.   Someone said upthread that she was a trained to be a professional ballerina.

I liked her - I thought she was really pretty in a more unique way and an amazing dancer.  Kitty's son lost out!  Hope she's klling it on stage!

[ShellyB]

On 9/18/2016 at 10:48 AM, MyFavShows said:

Was Olivia at a prepro ballet program who's goal was to produce professional ballerinas, or a dance studio that did competitions and conventions? - there is a BIG difference.   Someone said upthread that she was a trained to be a professional ballerina.

Prepro program, she's been classically trained. Most of the students from the studio go on to college programs, which is what Olivia did because they are trained in all areas. Her studio, is a ballet studio that does very well in everything else. Fall semesters are spent on technique and producing one of the best Nutcrackers in DFW. Spring takes the older girls to conventions where they can round out their technique. For the most part, it's a ballet and contemporary studio during competition season (Spring). A majority of girls 12 and up spend their summers at ballet intensives. 

[missmansfield]

On 9/2/2016 at 10:14 AM, MrsEVH said:

According to Brenda's LinkedIN (what I can see of it) she'a VP of a law firm.  She was a total bitch to Kat about her dress.

Was kind of surprised when Jenna Allison said she deserved a spot in TC.

Caila and Hunter had the same problem like Teri and Alyssa. Messed up their interviews. 

Why wasn't Kat's solo shown? They usually show solos of the ones who get cut.

I was surprised when Jenna Allison said that too.  I did not think there was one single likable thing about her from her elitist attitude to her physical appearance.  Hello, you cheered 5 years ago!  There are younger newer fresher girls who are going to be more desirable.

Edited September 27, 2016 by missmansfield
Added more

[LaurenBrook]

I think Jenna spoke out in the heat of the moment and full of emotion.  I won't hold it against her.  

Her latest pic from the Silver Spurs shoot is wow to me - I know I'm in the minority but I think she is beautiful! 

[MrsEVH]

20 minutes ago, LaurenBrook said:

I think Jenna spoke out in the heat of the moment and full of emotion.  I won't hold it against her.  

Her latest pic from the Silver Spurs shoot is wow to me - I know I'm in the minority but I think she is beautiful! 

Where did you find it? 

[RazzleberryPie]

25 minutes ago, LaurenBrook said:

I think Jenna spoke out in the heat of the moment and full of emotion.  I won't hold it against her.  

Her latest pic from the Silver Spurs shoot is wow to me - I know I'm in the minority but I think she is beautiful! 

She definitely has that Caroline Bissett Kennedy high fashion look, instead of the typical DCC pageant look.

[LaurenBrook]

20 minutes ago, MrsEVH said:

Where did you find it? 

[JayDKay]

22 minutes ago, LaurenBrook said:

She looks amazing! but those boots... not a fan! 

[RazzleberryPie]

Those boots look like the heel could snap in a second 

[Slate]

Jenna looks great. I was really rooting for her to make a comeback.

[LaurenBrook]

Yeah the outfit sucks LOL But I dont think she got to pick it.  Her body just looks incredible - so impressed with her hard work.  I hope she has an awesome season! 

[JayDKay]

The sneaker outfit looks SO much better. I know a lot of people are divided on Jenna's look but I think she is STUNNING!

[JC123]

I think she's a very pretty girl who looks good when other people do her makeup and hair. It was just the unsupported beige outfit at tryouts that had me cringing!! 

[MrsEVH]

7 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Those boots look like the heel could snap in a second 

The boots might have been just for the bio picture. I hope they don't dance in them. The Mavs dancers had them on in their bio pictures. I think it was the year Lauren Gibler was a rookie. They dance in sneakers.

[LaurenBrook]

7 hours ago, JayDKay said:

The sneaker outfit looks SO much better. I know a lot of people are divided on Jenna's look but I think she is STUNNING!

YES! and wish she would have done her hair like that for DCC auditions instead of the crimping too. 

[tobeyoungagain]

10 hours ago, JayDKay said:

The sneaker outfit looks SO much better. I know a lot of people are divided on Jenna's look but I think she is STUNNING!

Love those sneakers!!  Where can I get those?  They're not dancing in those boots are they???  Sheesh, that's just asking for a broken ankle.

Love Jenna - I don't remember her from her original season at all but I really admire how she got back in shape and how awesome she looks!  What team does the Spurs dance for?

[ByTor]

San Antonio Spurs (NBA)

Edited September 27, 2016 by ByTor

[tobeyoungagain]

35 minutes ago, ByTor said:

San Antonio Spurs (NBA)

oh hahaha ... I'm a real sports gal as you can tell.  Thanks!

[MyFavShows]

I think Jenna is gorgeous - she just made some really bad wardrobe choices at auditions - one poorly supporting Britney Spears outfit can be forgiven, but she seemed to do the same thing w/ her ugly solo costume too.

She looks amazing in those Spurs photos - and agree about the one of the left - talk about soft :/.

[missmansfield]

On 9/26/2016 at 8:59 PM, RazzleberryPie said:

She definitely has that Caroline Bissett Kennedy high fashion look, instead of the typical DCC pageant look.

Yes she does, right along with the horrible nose.  I know it sounds mean but damn!

[tobeyoungagain]

Was rewatching episode 2 and can I just say that Megan was almost unrecognizable???  She gained so much weight and that floral outfit she had on for her solo???  whaaaa??  Seriously that's something my preggers friend would wear because it's more comfortable for her belly.  I can't believe she not only didn't get chastised from K+J but she was actually highlighted as standout vet  (they showed her doing leap and Kelli saying she had the biggest smile in the room).

And Melissa!  Aikes girl - what happened?  SHe looked so heavy and could barely get off the floor in her leaps!  So disappointed - for such amazing dancers, I was hoping they would be "ON" for auditions.  And definitely disappointed in K+J for hypocrisy.

[PBSLover]

What doesn’t make sense is the vets are known to get into great shape for the calendar.  Finals are a month later (I think) so the timing makes me scratch my head.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, PBSLover said:

What doesn’t make sense is the vets are known to get into great shape for the calendar.  Finals are a month later (I think) so the timing makes me scratch my head.

It's the juice cleanse, makes you bloat probably.