S23: Laurie Hernandez - Balancing On Her Toes

[gohawks]

1 hour ago, spanana said:

To go back to the guardian thing, this quote from Val sure makes it sound like he's acting as her legal guardian:

This is from an US Weekly article about the Lochte thing, that can be found here:

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/ryan-lochte-dwts-protest-derek-hough-maks-val-more-react-w439339

Point being it definitely sounds like Val is her legal guardian for the next several months because why else would he be responsible for her from the moment she wakes up to the moment she goes to sleep.  Either he's exaggerating or he's her guardian.

Also from an article I read yesterday with Laurie, she said she hasn't started school yet this year either.  So no idea when that is happening for her, though I hope they don't push it off for DWTS.  I know she's got a lot going on, but it's not a great precedent to be pushing off her education either.

Laurie seems like a great kid, so no judgment, but I do find it sort of odd how hands off her parents seem to be.  I trust Val well enough but handing their 16 year old off to a grown man that she just met a few weeks ago?  There might be reasons her parents can't travel with her if they need to work, but I'd try to entrust my daughter to somebody she already knew instead of her brand new dance partner.

Either way this should be a very different experience for Val then with Zendaya.  Besides the fact that they have no real competition for the mirrorball, Val was never asked to take care of Z in that way.  Parents were almost always around.  Also while both girls are mature, it's in different ways.  Even then Zendaya probably knew more about the business side of things then Val did, whereas Laurie has never stepped a foot in LA before and is all wide eyed innocence.

So much odd speculation. I just assume she is handled the same as any other child on the show. There just has been no evidence of neglect from her parents.

[spanana]

11 minutes ago, gohawks said:

So much odd speculation. I just assume she is handled the same as any other child on the show. There just has been no evidence of neglect from her parents.

I don't think anybody is arguing there is neglect happening.  But it was an odd quote from Val, that's all.  Moving on now.

[vavera4ka]

so apparently they are doing jive to Duck Tales next week.

Is it Disney night already?

[saylubee]

4 minutes ago, vavera4ka said:

so apparently they are doing jive to Duck Tales next week.

Is it Disney night already?

When I voted last night by phone the automated message said it was an ode to tv shows.

[kitcloudkicker]

26 minutes ago, vavera4ka said:

so apparently they are doing jive to Duck Tales next week.

Is it Disney night already?

Holy shit what, I'm so ready for this. 

[kitcloudkicker]

Although will Laurie know what DuckTales is? Oh no, this is going to make me feel old, isn't it?

Edited September 14, 2016 by kitcloudkicker

[friendperidot]

I was just in another thread where the young lady from the Duck Dynasty family was mentioned. I am not a fan of that show and cannot remember her name, Sophie or something, she danced with Mark, she is a lovely young lady, had some dancing skills, I wish her well. But that being that, I misread and thought vavera4ka was saying that Laurie was dancing to Duck Dynasty - and I thought, "didn't they just do that and why would she dance to that?" The mind makes weird jumps at times.

[simplyme]

Laurie participates in a sport capable of doing serious damage to her body. At 16, she's already had a fractured wrist, dislocated knee cap, torn patella ligament, and bruised MCL. (Maybe she and Calvin Johnson can talk injuries sometime.) In addition, Olympics-level gymnasts deal with incredible stress and some actually have their growth stunted by several factors (delayed puberty and associated effects, incredible compression forces in gymnastics, etc.). When data is compared to other sports in various ways (catastrophic injury rates, practice injury rates, etc.), women's gymnastics tends to be one of the most dangerous sports out there.

At this point in her career, during a dance show, we the public are really going to worry about who her guardian is, how well she knows them, and her education?  IMO, if she seems happy, leave her alone unless she says otherwise. Laurie and her family made their own choices and it's not up to me how she is raised. (That probably came out a little harsher than intended.)

Val could simply have meant that he is working with Laurie all the time and trying to be a role model, not that he is her legal guardian. I have trouble seeing DWTS wanting to put themselves in that position. It's quite possible he feels responsible for her without being her legal guardian. I think most people in a mentor/student relationship with a 16-year-old would to some extent. :)

[bantering]

I assumed Laurie was home-schooled (or whatever the celebrity/athlete equivalent is) and gets her school work sent to DWTS. 

Nowadays education seems pretty flexible (at least for people in her position)...

Tom introduced her mother during the episode so it seems her parents are around somewhere -- maybe they're just more on the private side. I'm sure they're proud of their daughter like Phelps's mom or Lochte's mom or Aly Raisman's parents are of their kids, but maybe they're not into being interviewed. I probably wouldn't be.

Edited September 15, 2016 by bantering

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, bantering said:

I assumed Laurie was home-schooled (or whatever the celebrity/athlete equivalent is) and gets her school work sent to DWTS. 

Nowadays education seems pretty flexible (at least for people in her position)...

Tom introduced her mother during the episode so it seems her parents are around somewhere -- maybe they're just more on the private side. I'm sure they're proud of their daughter like Phelps's mom or Lochte's mom or Aly Raisman's parents are of their kids, but maybe they're not into being interviewed. I probably wouldn't be.

They are private. Here is a good article about her parents http://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnastics/story/_/id/17258513/2016-rio-olympics-anthony-wanda-golden-girl-gymnast-laurie-hernandez

I like the fact they waited in line and expected no special treatment to enter the arena at the Olympics even though people in line were telling officials their daughter was competing. Also the fact her dad says her endorsement money is going towards college made me like them.

Edited September 15, 2016 by choclatechip45

[majormama]

On 9/13/2016 at 11:05 AM, spanana said:

Also from an article I read yesterday with Laurie, she said she hasn't started school yet this year either.  So no idea when that is happening for her, though I hope they don't push it off for DWTS.  I know she's got a lot going on, but it's not a great precedent to be pushing off her education either.

 

Speaking as a former home school student and current home school teacher, there's no reason the school year has to be September to May. She can do December to July just as easily. Flexibility is exactly why families in Laurie's situation home school so often.

Edited September 15, 2016 by majormama

[BW Manilowe]

On 9/13/2016 at 9:37 PM, vavera4ka said:

so apparently they are doing jive to Duck Tales next week.

Is it Disney night already?

No, it doesn't look like it's Disney night. Derek & Marilu are dancing foxtrot to a song called Angela, the alternate title of which is The Theme From Taxi. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

There are few things of which BBC America and Disney are more afraid than potential abuse of children criticisms.

Of course, as others have pointed out, the abuse a USA Olympian undergoes before and during Karolyi getting her hands on them is immense.  Better gymnasts through chemistry (check out hormone therapies they must accept) is a very real thing.  Under no circumstance would I allow my child to enter into the required regimens to be an elite gymnast.  

Laurie's laughing at any suggestion of pressure on DWTS on the show was such a real moment.  I wish I found it to be humorous.   I know too much to go there.

I will be extremely interested to follow her schedule now that the tour is imminent.  She is SIXTEEN!  Going on 35.  :(

[vavera4ka]

the quality that got highlighted by this week's dance was that she looks natural (read: not staged) with her over the top facial expressions. it is 100% her and it looks adorable. when most people choreograph their faces, she just uses it like she would in a conversation with her friends lol

i hope next week is something slower, classier, just to see how she translates into those more mature dances. I'm sure she'll do great, i just want to see it :)

[friendperidot]

my almost 18 yr old great nephew came in my room during Laurie's dance. I reminded him of watching the gymnastics during the Olympics, he didn't recognize her, he didn't pay a lot of attention during the gymnastics, he thought the young ladies all were too muscular and not soft and curvy enough to suit him. Like his opinion matters much! 

But he did comment on how he could see how some stars are there and having fun, while others are there to win. He thought she looked like she was having fun. I did tell him that in my opinion, unless something major happens this season is hers to lose. But she and Val did look like they were having fun.

[mrsmit7]

Yeah she's genuinely adorable and looks like she's having a blast out there...and not forced. 

 

We've seen cute and fun laurie and I too am looking forward to seeing how she does in the standars, pasos, tango, etc

[DancingD]

So impressed with her. She's had no trouble with her arms, which seems to be the biggest hurdle for most gymnasts. And she's far from robotic. Anyone remember Aly? Laurie, like Nastia, just has tons of of dance talent along with strength. I doubt she's done much dance training (no turnout). When would she have time.

If having a great deal of natural talent means she's a ringer, I guess she is. 

[vavera4ka]

1 hour ago, DancingD said:

If having a great deal of natural talent means she's a ringer, I guess she is. 

I guess it's not just talent...

She has rhythm, just like musicians and singers do

She has strength and stamina just like athletes do

She has showmanship just like actors do

She's also not new to the whole "live performance pressure"

True some of it comes from her being her, but quite a lot comes from the fact that she is an Olympic gymnast.

I don't care though, I enjoy watching her. My only complaint... the dances are too short lol even though (unlike with some less gifted celebs) Val tries to pack as much of actual dance and performance into slotted minute+, I want MORE!!! lol

Edited September 20, 2016 by vavera4ka

[mrsmit7]

Interesting that it's Cirque week and they gave her Michael Jackson's One, which is prob the least acrobatic cirque show

[Anisky]

Copied by request from the Week 4 Episode Thread:

As someone who took dance for 14 years growing up (became quite serious about it as a teen) and is currently a gymnastics coach, I have to say that yes, the two disciplines are quite related. 

I mean, obviously, they're not perfectly correlated. But while strength is something necessary in most sports (and thus something that many contestants on DWtS have), the biggest things that both dance and gymnastics require are flexibility (this one is huge), precision of movement, excellent balance, and kinesthetic awareness. 

Also, all the team gymnasts at the gymnastics training center where I work have several hours of dance class per week; while this varies from gym to gym, I know MG Elite (Laurie's gym) has dance class as part of team practice. 

Some things that Laurie could easily do that I'd expect professional dancers (especially the women) to be able to do, that most other types of contestants wouldn't: Completely straight splits and straddle. Lifting her back foot behind her and holding it against the back of her head with ease; standing there like that without falling over. Kicking one foot all the way up, with a straight knee, so high that she could hold it in a full vertical split. An illusion turn. A leap that hits 180 degrees before landing. Completing one or more pirouettes with a leg up at or above waist-height, straight or in attitude; finishing in balance and ready to continue to another movement. 

On both Floor and Balance Beam, at least 3 out of the 8 skills that are added together for difficulty score must be "dance skills", mainly leaps and turns. The higher the difficulty, the better the final score, so an All-Around gymnast like Laurie is highly incentivized to perform at least 6 extremely difficult dance skills (3 of them on a 4-inch-wide beam). 

One thing that rather disappointed me about Laurie's dance this week is that it didn't utilize more of the abilities she'd have from gymnastics that translate into dance. Besides the obvious aerial cartwheel lift she did with Val, there was also a very high kick she did near the beginning that most contestants wouldn't be capable of, but that's all I really saw this week. 

In their dance in the first week, Laurie and Val definitely made copious use of Laurie's flexibility and ability to kick super high-- I can't think off the top of my head of any other group besides gymnasts and dancers who would be able to do what she did in that one.

In the second week, besides a lift where Laurie got to show off her split, they mostly made use of Laurie's gymnastics-derived ability to spin around a bunch of times without getting dizzy (she's Olympic Silver Medalist on Balance Beam for a reason) and to continue seamlessly into new choreography.  They also took advantage of her dance training making things like kick ball changes and grapevines second nature enough that she could focus on other things while doing them. They also had a cool bit of choreo that was a hop-turn-kick, hop-turn-kick that Laurie's gymnastics training would have made really easy. (Besides turning multiple revolutions in a row and having the leg at waist height or full split while doing so, the main form of high-scoring dance element on Floor is a leap or jump that hits a pose-- usually a split or variation thereof-- while packing in as many spins in the air as possible before the gymnast hits the floor. So a dance move that's a hop that spins in the air and ends in a kick as you land would be easy for a gymnast and very challenging for anyone else-- not undoable the way most of her flexibility is, but something that would eat up a lot more training time for anyone else.)

The third week they didn't make that much use of it either-- a few kicks, and a few moments where Val drags Laurie or leans her over while her feet are still on the floor or (gasp) lifts her were aided by her gymnastics training. Especially the first two; her body stays super straight and tight because she was reminded to "Keep those legs together, knees straight, body tight!" many times daily from the time she was 5 years old until the time that it became so automatic to her that she didn't have to be reminded. ("Toes pointed!" was part of that too, but she's wearing shoes of course. I guarantee you they were was pointed as she could make them inside those shoes, just by sheer reflex.) (The tightness of the body is probably actually a disadvantage in much of this competition, but it made those particular moves possible and good looking.) 

All that said, the charisma, the acting skills and facial expressions, natural rhythm, attitude, stage presence-- pretty much all the things that make it hard to look away from her while she's dancing-- that's all Laurie. 

[RemoteControl88]

3 hours ago, Anisky said:

 All that said, the charisma, the acting skills and facial expressions, natural rhythm, attitude, stage presence-- pretty much all the things that make it hard to look away from her while she's dancing-- that's all Laurie. 

Laurie is the 4th gymnast on the show (Shawn, Aly and Nastia). I thought Aly lacked a sense of timing/rhythm in her dancing. Surprisingly she was not very graceful IMO.  Nastia & Shawn were both technically great....just like Laurie, however Nastia lacked that performance ability.  The ability to really sell the performance. Shawn was better at performing compared to Nastia...but Laurie is on a whole other level. The stage  presence she has can't be taught. 

Val seems primarily concerned with teaching her ballroom technique and content.  I love that. I think he doesn't necessarily want us to see a gymnast out there...he wants us to see her nailing ballroom technique. 

As for their jazz I agree that was a dance where he could have incorporated the gymnastics or packed in content.  But in the context of a week where she had less time to prepare...Val had 2 options. He could have cracked the whip and made a very difficult & packed routine and made her learn it in a short amount of time...and in the process she would have been miserable.  He opted to give her choreo she could handle and made her the focus of the routine. She has the charisma to pull it off.  

This week reminds me of the week Val had Meryl for switch up week.  Meryl had just started touring with Stars on Ice and training for that weeks dance at the same time. Val pushed Meryl really hard that week and the results was an amazing Argentine Tango, however I don't think it was a fun week for her.  

Here Val made the best of the week he had with Laurie.  I think Val has learned when to push and when not to push.

[Uke]

9 hours ago, Anisky said:

Copied by request from the Week 4 Episode Thread:

Thank you Anisky.  This was the best comparison of gymnast vs dancer skills I think I've seen here and now I'll be able to find it later in the season under "Laurie" instead of hunting through the episode threads.

[mrsmit7]

Although intense  , Rise is super slow for a paso. Will be interested to see how val choreographs this

[vavera4ka]

15 hours ago, mrsmit7 said:

Although intense  , Rise is super slow for a paso. Will be interested to see how val choreographs this

it will be interesting indeed, though if any non-pro can pul it off it's a gymnast. They have a great control of their body and balance skills to pull of intense slow moves.

Paso is not my fav dance though... to me it looks just bunch of stamping around and posing with attitude... so whatever Val does it'll probably end up my least fav Laurie dance this season... 

I know i'm in the minority though lol i prefer the smoothness of foxtrot any day lol

Edited October 9, 2016 by vavera4ka

[mrsmit7]

I think they got underscored in their paso, if there is a redemption dance later in the season, I hope they get to redo this, because it was a pretty impressive dance.

[katha]

2 minutes ago, mrsmit7 said:

I think they got underscored in their paso, if there is a redemption dance later in the season, I hope they get to redo this, because it was a pretty impressive dance.

There were issues in it, so I understood why points were docked. Mostly I thought Laurie looked like she hadn't quite mastered all of the technique yet. That was a lot of content Val gave her, and you saw in moments that she was insecure in execution or that he had to stabilize her to help her out. But it was still very good. Probably a 9, not an 8. Then you get into the discussion about how judging should work, though. Do you judge her against the others? Then the 8s were too low. Do you judge her against herself? Then the 8s become more understandable. Mostly the judging is inconsistent, so whatever. It was also time to do a "Laurie isn't infallible, anyone can win it!" thing, so this was it.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I was happily stunned we finally saw the flawed and perfectly human Laurie.  When I was looking at Val, I got the feeling that he was quite happy to finally see her expressing genuine frustration.  Now that they can finally be "real," I fear for the rest of them.  This duo will never be beat.

Laurie's natural immaturity appeared for the first time in performance this week, in my opinion.  She simply did not have it in her to be actually fierce.  She played at it, or acted it.  this may also have been a vestige of exhaustion.  What a ridiculous schedule she is keeping at this time.  

The relative scoring was a farce this week.  They purposefully changed the standard for Calvin and Laurie to be against past performance instead of the classic scoring at a newbie-to-ballroom standard, which the weaker pros enjoyed.   It's a very good thing the Final Five were not similarly handicapped in Rio. 

[McManda]

23 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The relative scoring was a farce this week.  They purposefully changed the standard for Calvin and Laurie to be against past performance instead of the classic scoring at a newbie-to-ballroom standard, which the weaker pros enjoyed.

This is not something new or specific to Calvin or Laurie. They've always been subjective in their scoring, and the scores don't mean the same things for the different couples. A nine for someone like Laurie is going to look vastly different than a nine for someone like Babyface.

[katha]

4 hours ago, McManda said:

This is not something new or specific to Calvin or Laurie. They've always been subjective in their scoring, and the scores don't mean the same things for the different couples. A nine for someone like Laurie is going to look vastly different than a nine for someone like Babyface.

Yeah, this is also something where I think it's about getting celebs to do the show at all: If you have, for example, an older contestant with no dance experience and they know they're going to be competing against young, athletic people who are sometimes even more or less well trained in dancing already, giving them a "realistic" score would mean they're permanently stuck at 3s or 4s. So they get scored on "Is it good for their abilities? Have they improved?" and that's how people like Patti Labelle etc. can get 8s and 9s. It's all very muddy how it's being applied when contestants are closer in capabilites (how lenient and/or strict are you? What are you looking for? Etc.), and I agree it's frustrating at times because the execution is IMO so inconsistent, but I get the principle of the thing. It's not Blackpool, it's an entertainment show.

I think Laurie knows this as well. And if not, I'm sure Val has explained the politics of it all to her.

[MissLen]

On 9/12/2016 at 10:09 PM, ByaNose said:

And, the ringer is....I mean winner is..........

While I think she is adorable and talented, I have felt since Season 1 that Gymnasts, former pro dancers, etc. are ringers and shouldn't be on the show.  My other issue is that she is 16 and the dances are too sexy/mature for a young girl.  

[spanana]

On 10/14/2016 at 9:55 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Laurie's natural immaturity appeared for the first time in performance this week, in my opinion.  She simply did not have it in her to be actually fierce.  She played at it, or acted it.  this may also have been a vestige of exhaustion.  What a ridiculous schedule she is keeping at this time.  

Laurie did some tour shows this past week, when she was rehearsing for her salsa routine, but she did no tour shows last week when rehearsing for her Paso.  So outside of splitting time between DWTS and school, her schedule shouldn't have been too ridiculous last week.  She stayed in LA all week long and didn't travel.  I just think some dances suit her better than others and the Paso vibe was always going to be harder for her since it doesn't sit as naturally on her personality.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

As Val noted, this was a week where the gymnast "ringer" was at a definite disadvantage.  It totally showed in the dance.  It was basically a series of spins.  

Conspiracy side?  In the very few moments when Laurie was attempting to undulate in typical Latin fashion, we got long shots, obscured by the overly bright and blinking lights.   The scoring was a joke.   Definite ringer territory.

Thank you, @spanana for the 411 on her open schedule last week.  That Paso should have been much, much better.  I do agree though, that dance, like this one, forced her to stretch into uncomfortable movement.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Uke]

12 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

That Paso should have been much, much better.  I do agree though, that dance, like this one, forced her to stretch into uncomfortable movement.

Yes, and that's the point for me. It's great having Olympic gymnasts, especially in the finale when they can do stuff no one else can.  On the way to the finale, I want to see them actually struggle a bit as they are pulled out of their comfort zone.  If all we get are cutesy gymnastic "dance" routines each week, that's kind of cheating us AND her.

[gohawks]

I was not a fan of Shawn's at all because I thought Mark relied too heavily on her gymnastics. I am very glad that Val is teaching Laurie to dance. That is what Val does, he teaches his partners how to dance

[katha]

6 hours ago, gohawks said:

I was not a fan of Shawn's at all because I thought Mark relied too heavily on her gymnastics. I am very glad that Val is teaching Laurie to dance. That is what Val does, he teaches his partners how to dance

I loved what Mark and Derek both did with Shawn. But I think it's really cool that we're seeing a different approach how to deal with a gymnasts. Perhaps Val is always on the edge of pushing her too hard out of her comfort zone, but it's also interesting how comparatively little he's relying on her gymnastics background (at least when it comes to integrating tricks into the programs) and how he's also trying to get her to go beyond her usual wheelhouse in performance.

[calipiano81]

On 10/18/2016 at 4:43 PM, gohawks said:

I was not a fan of Shawn's at all because I thought Mark relied too heavily on her gymnastics. I am very glad that Val is teaching Laurie to dance. That is what Val does, he teaches his partners how to dance

I strongly disagree with the first. Mark only used Shawn's gymnastics in their Lindy Hop and Freestyle, two dances that are expected to have tricks. Shawn actually developed very good dance technique, it just took a while for her to get comfortable with performing the dances.

As for Val, for the most part, I have been enjoying what he has been doing with Laurie.

Edited October 20, 2016 by calipiano81

[katha]

In Shawn's first season, Mark had to teach her from scratch. I thought her first real stand-out dance was the cha-cha somewhere in the second half of the season. Before that, he was cleaning her up. Her dances were nice and pleasant to watch, but nowhere near the quality Gilles was delivering IMO. Then once she was comfortable with performing and dancing at the level, Mark could choreograph memorable routines on her. That's also when they started gaining ground on Gilles and Cheryl. Derek used her gymnast background much more heavily. And though I liked many of the programs he did and it was super interesting, there was also sometimes the impression that he used tricks to cover up other things she didn't do so well. And then of course it also comes down to personal taste and style of the pros.

I actually think Laurie comes with the usual set of "issues" for gymnasts. She might be naturally more fluent and graceful than power gymnasts, but there's a rigid and boxed in quality to her movements that she needs to overcome as well. She has charisma and is great at one kind of performance, once you ask her to get out of that comfort zone she isn't as secure anymore.

[RedFiat]

Laurie's blog 

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/laurie-hernandez-wasnt-expecting-dwts-to-be-so-hard-w445719

I just think there is a real contrast here with her comments and when Zendaya was on.  To me, Laurie sounds like a little girl in a grown up world trying to cope the best she can.  I know she is naturally talented but it has got to be very intimidating to be sexy with a 30 year old man on a Salsa.  That is where there has been a disconnect, imho.  I loved Val with Zendaya, but I think in large part because Val was given a lot of direction on just how he was going to present Zendaya.  Her dad was constantly in rehearsal, he had a huge say in her wardrobe choices and certainly in choreography..  You just have to contrast how they approached the Salsa to see the difference.  When Val created personnas for Zendaya,-- a baby Beyonce who gets a sweet little finger to the nose, it's from a man who recognizes her beauty and her cuteness but with a healthy appreciation for her age.  A little Princess,  A scheming jewel thief,  a 20's flapper,  she could blossom inside the armour of costume,  she did not need to be a sex kitten because the choreography did not require it, it was more creative than that.  

It was nice to see Laurie really play when she got to do Michael Jackson, all kids like Laurie have grown up on Jackson and to be able to re-live his step sequences as she remembers them must have been a blast. Or how about Duck Tales, that was a a great jive where she could just jump into the cartoon and have fun. Those two dances are my favorites from her thus far. The way forward for Laurie, I think is to allow her more time to play at characters, not be a one note femme fatale.  She's intimidated by it, and it shows. 

Edited October 22, 2016 by RedFiat

[gohawks]

7 hours ago, RedFiat said:

Laurie's blog 

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/laurie-hernandez-wasnt-expecting-dwts-to-be-so-hard-w445719

I just think there is a real contrast here with her comments and when Zendaya was on.  To me, Laurie sounds like a little girl in a grown up world trying to cope the best she can.  I know she is naturally talented but it has got to be very intimidating to be sexy with a 30 year old man on a Salsa.  That is where there has been a disconnect, imho.  I loved Val with Zendaya, but I think in large part because Val was given a lot of direction on just how he was going to present Zendaya.  Her dad was constantly in rehearsal, he had a huge say in her wardrobe choices and certainly in choreography..  You just have to contrast how they approached the Salsa to see the difference.  When Val created personnas for Zendaya,-- a baby Beyonce who gets a sweet little finger to the nose, it's from a man who recognizes her beauty and her cuteness but with a healthy appreciation for her age.  A little Princess,  A scheming jewel thief,  a 20's flapper,  she could blossom inside the armour of costume,  she did not need to be a sex kitten because the choreography did not require it, it was more creative than that.  

It was nice to see Laurie really play when she got to do Michael Jackson, all kids like Laurie have grown up on Jackson and to be able to re-live his step sequences as she remembers them must have been a blast. Or how about Duck Tales, that was a a great jive where she could just jump into the cartoon and have fun. Those two dances are my favorites from her thus far. The way forward for Laurie, I think is to allow her more time to play at characters, not be a one note femme fatale.  She's intimidated by it, and it shows. 

I agree with you 100%.

Also Zendaya  and Laurie are such different girls. Zendaya seemed more mature and confident. She also seemed better able to handle Val's teaching style. This is not a slam against Laurie, she is obviously very accomplished. 

[Rrrhumba]

In her autobiography, Shawn spoke to how much a challenge doing the show in S8 was for her. Not only the dancing and performing (and stalker!) aspect but also the fact that because she'd stopped full time gymnastics training, she experienced changes to her body that she had to deal with as well. Top level gymnasts are training 6-8hrs a day, with a huge amount of conditioning involved. Although the dancing is an aerobic workout, it'll be nowhere near the energy expenditure Laurie is used to. The poor girl is trying to do parts of a gymnastics tour, cope with Val's intense teaching style, deal with the inevitable no-longer-training-elite weight gain and she also hasn't had a break all year. Although she's naturally embullient, she's got to be hitting  the point of all-out exhaustion. Val is excited because he's got such a talent, but he would be better off to simplify the routines a bit, give Laurie some breathing room and allow her to be herself, not "Val's partner." This is the difference between the way he treated Zendaya vs. most of his other partners, for me. Zendaya came in with a brand of her own that he had to work to, everybody else he just seems to see as an extension of himself. 

[RedFiat]

5 hours ago, gohawks said:

Also Zendaya  and Laurie are such different girls. Zendaya seemed more mature and confident. She also seemed better able to handle Val's teaching style. This is not a slam against Laurie, she is obviously very accomplished. 

Ironic, isn't it? Zendaya seemed more mature and confident because it was very clear she was to be presented in an age appropriate manner.  

2 hours ago, Rrrhumba said:

Val is excited because he's got such a talent, but he would be better off to simplify the routines a bit, give Laurie some breathing room and allow her to be herself, not "Val's partner." 

For me it is obvious Val is treating Laurie as if she were older,  at least with the choreography and wardrobe choices, so I am not sure where that directive has come from.  It seems to me that television now want to get these gymnasts dating and I would much rather let them be themselves. But  - Simone Biles with her mad crush on Zac Ephron and that going viral, and then when Laurie was on Ellen she talks about her crush and he appears on the show.  It's a little girl thing that gets too adult too quickly if not monitored. Kids can lose their way very easily especially in Hollyweird. I  vividly remember Shawn had a stalker in season 8 and it was a very serious and scary thing.  The upshot is every choice for someone underage must be scrutinized to ensure their well being.  She has been through a grueling Olympics.  She does not need to be crying on DWTS for anything.  Maybe I sound like a mother hen, but I don't care.  Young women need to be protected by those who really care for them, not just the hired help.  If Mom and Dad are around but "hands off" as if she were in Olympic training, I think they need to be there more.  

Edited October 23, 2016 by RedFiat

[gohawks]

2 hours ago, RedFiat said:

Ironic, isn't it? Zendaya seemed more mature and confident because it was very clear she was to be presented in an age appropriate manner.  

For me it is obvious Val is treating Laurie as if she were older,  at least with the choreography and wardrobe choices, so I am not sure where that directive has come from.  It seems to me that television now want to get these gymnasts dating and I would much rather let them be themselves. But  - Simone Biles with her mad crush on Zac Ephron and that going viral, and then when Laurie was on Ellen she talks about her crush and he appears on the show.  It's a little girl thing that gets too adult too quickly if not monitored. Kids can lose their way very easily especially in Hollyweird. I  vividly remember Shawn had a stalker in season 8 and it was a very serious and scary thing.  The upshot is every choice for someone underage must be scrutinized to ensure their well being.  She has been through a grueling Olympics.  She does not need to be crying on DWTS for anything.  Maybe I sound like a mother hen, but I don't care.  Young women need to be protected by those who really care for them, not just the hired help.  If Mom and Dad are around but "hands off" as if she were in Olympic training, I think they need to be there more.  

What female contestant on DWTS has  not had a meltdown on the show? Maybe a few, like Zendaya, did not cry at some point but a little meltdown seems to be a very normal part of the process. If she were constantly upset, that would be a problem imo.

 

Also, we still don't know how much her parents are/are not involved in her DWTS experience. 

Edited October 23, 2016 by gohawks

[katha]

What's happening here is somewhat expected: She basically admits that she underestimated how much effort DWTS takes and that she may have spread herself too thin with her schedule. The frustration with the judging is also understandable, she gets why they're holding her to a fundamentally different standard than everybody else, but it also creates a strain of "What am I even supposed to be doing? How can I be like a pro dancer when I'm not?" OTOH, they're also doing her a favour. The main DWTS audience is reliably sexist and has impossible expectations towards female contestants, so by being tough on her they're probably really cutting down on potential resentment she might otherwise create.

Everything else is a case of YMMV at this point, I think. I don't think any of Laurie's dances so far were in any way inappropriate. She is out of her comfort zone at the moment, though. But IMO it's a case of: "We won't rely on your tricks to cover for weaknesses in dancing. And we won't rely on charisma and cutesiness to bail you out of doing proper characterization in performances." And so she's a bit without safety net at the moment, but I expect that she'll only gain from that and it'll help her in her dances going forward. I hope Val doesn't change his approach. So far IMO he's been staying true to himself and to his interests and priorities as a pro. And usually the moment pros with contenders start freaking out and pandering to what they think people want to see, it ends in trainwrecks.

It's also normal that it's not all a breeze, most contestants at some point get frustrated with it. It's a lot of work and stress and I don't think it's always clear from the outside looking in. They just chose to show Laurie being stressed, I'm sure everyone else deals with the same. For all her gymnastics performance background, she's also not an actress like someone like Zendaya was. What we're seeing now is her trying to learn to expand beyond one brand of expression and one brand of movement. And so she struggles a bit, like all the gymnasts struggled with that.

ETA: I'm also pretty sure that whatever stress she has on DWTS is a laugh compared to what she has to deal with in gymnastics. The Karolyis are infamous on that front. The female gymnasts are just expected to put up a constant front of cheerfulness at all times (or they'll get torn to shreds like Douglas). There's certainly a critical discussion to be had about that whole system and what it demands from young people. Compared to that, I thought the package last week about the paso showed a rather typical teaching situation and both Val and Laurie came off well in it. And the important thing there was the admission from Laurie that it's not all easy and effortless, something that they're discouraged from doing in gymnastics. They're expected to put up a happy front at all times (and woe is you if you deviate from the script....once again, see the reactions to Douglas).

Edited October 23, 2016 by katha

[katha]

Double post

Edited October 23, 2016 by katha

[RedFiat]

18 hours ago, gohawks said:

What female contestant on DWTS has  not had a meltdown on the show? Maybe a few, like Zendaya, did not cry at some point but a little meltdown seems to be a very normal part of the process. If she were constantly upset, that would be a problem imo.

 

Also, we still don't know how much her parents are/are not involved in her DWTS experience. 

Here's the thing. Of the YOUNG kids that have been on the show,  I remember Sadie  crying because she messed up or was uncomfortable about the being morally conflicted about the sexiness of the Rumba but that was an entire package about how Mark and the show was going to be sensitive about the choreography and how the family gave approval.  Shawns parents were always interviewed, Shawn was absolutely stoic about the stalking incident.   Zendayas dad, all involved and having a say in how the child is being portrayed. Where is Lauries parents -- she was filmed crying with no support around her.  Women over 18 can have their meltdown and they can understand the consequences of it when they signed the contract. But What is up with filming Laurie in a vulnerable state without commentary by her family.  I know by their own admission they stayed completely hands off in Olympic training. This isnt Olympics, its a reality show that is often tabloid fodder, and the girl needs to be protected.  

Edited October 23, 2016 by RedFiat

[gohawks]

6 hours ago, RedFiat said:

Here's the thing. Of the YOUNG kids that have been on the show,  I remember Sadie  crying because she messed up or was uncomfortable about the being morally conflicted about the sexiness of the Rumba but that was an entire package about how Mark and the show was going to be sensitive about the choreography and how the family gave approval.  Shawns parents were always interviewed, Shawn was absolutely stoic about the stalking incident.   Zendayas dad, all involved and having a say in how the child is being portrayed. Where is Lauries parents -- she was filmed crying with no support around her.  Women over 18 can have their meltdown and they can understand the consequences of it when they signed the contract. But What is up with filming Laurie in a vulnerable state without commentary by her family.  I know by their own admission they stayed completely hands off in Olympic training. This isnt Olympics, its a reality show that is often tabloid fodder, and the girl needs to be protected.  

We saw 1 minute of highly edited video. NOTHING can be surmised from that imo.

Edited October 24, 2016 by gohawks

[RedFiat]

I disagree.  Since we have a precedent of all the other underage female contestants on the show having competed under the watchful eye of family, and either winning or being runner up as a result, it seems to me that Laurie could actually benefit from it rather than it not being filmed at all.  Either Mom and Dad are not there, or some bright light producer thinks it's better for her to be presented older than she is, and her vulnerability to be seen as a meltdown instead of a kid just being a kid learning about her insecurities as it relates to dancing with men. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Female gymnasts at the elite level of an LH are purposefully denied their natural feminine progress.  Many take hormone treatments to block feminine physical development.  ALL undergo a super-strict indoctrination into how they are to think.  It is demanded that they overcome literal pain so as to perform.  It is a classicly male-centric/warrior approach.  Emotions are to be suppressed as much as possible.   Boys?  Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!!!!  

Then, it is over.  Good luck knowing who you are.  Best to you as you start experiencing, sometimes through a firehose, deep and broad feeling. 

LH is in a kind of purgatory, in my opinion.  She is at an especially difficult position relative to the others who have been on DWTS.  She still aspires to remain the world-class gymnast she has become, yet is dipping her toes in some scary places with this man, Val, who is acting on behalf of the show.  Darn straight she is confused.  She is being made to make existential decisions, in my opinion, for the first time.  In front of millions.  All the while, she knows she cannot offend the USA coaches, else she lose her standing with them.   Before, she had a laser focus on whatever it might take to improve as a gymnast.  Simple.  Now?  What a minefield!

I genuinely feel for her as the best advice, which I am certain she is being given, is to "be herself."   How on earth can she possibly know who that is?     

[realdancemom]

I thought that there had to be a parent or guardian present when minors are involved.  Maybe, they are just not showing Laurie's parent or guardian.  I do know that they can only work so many hours and they need to have snacks/food every few hours.  The latter was mentioned during Willow's season.

I do think Laurie is the best gymnast that they had on DWTS.  Aly didn't have musicality.  Nastia wasn't a performer.  I didn't watch Shawn's first season with Mark.  But I did think Derek did put a lot of gymnastics/tricks in her routines even with traditional ballroom dances like the quickstep.  Laurie still moves like a gymnast instead of a ballroom/Latin dancer but out of those four, I think she's the most natural dancer/performer.

 With Val, I think he's trying to choreograph routines that aren't always cute.  He is trying to show different sides of her.  It's out of her comfort zone but I would get sick of just watching cute and fun routines from them.  I'm also glad that he's teaching ballroom moves and not adding a bunch of gymnastics or tricks to her routines.

[RedFiat]

I never get sick of watching cute fun age appropriate dances, but I do cringe when its awkwardly intense for no reason than to prove some kind of point that an underage contestant can do anything.

Edited October 24, 2016 by RedFiat