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The Crazed Spruce

S02.E09: Johnny Be Good

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I am incredibly not happy about Pawter's death.   I really liked her and thought that her relationship with Johnny was so much fun to watch and counteracted the dreary Dutch storyline we are now stuck with.  Not happy show. Not happy. 

Edited by Chaos Theory
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I'm so upset that Pawter is dead.  I really liked the relationship between she and Johnny.  It just seemed healthier and cute.  Plus I thought she was a good addition to the supporting cast so even if she and Johnny weren't together I would have liked to see her remain a doctor or her place as royalty.

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Delle Seyah is ALWAYS a delight as far as I'm concerned.   She's so unrepentantly NASTY.   She's always come across as shrewder and more ruthless then Pawter so I wasn't at all surprised when she got the best of her for the final time.   I also must say that I like the actress much more.  She brings such verve to her role in the story.

Pawter. Meh.  I don't know if it was the actress or the writing but I always felt she was the most boring poor little rich girl I'd ever seen.  Equal parts trite and clingy.   I won't miss her and it helped elevate Delle Seyah to a higher level of delicious villainy.

Dav has been cracking me up this season.  I was lukewarm on him in Season 2 but now I like him as much (well almost as much as Dutch and Johnny).

I didn't see much chemistry with Johnny and Pawter and my general dislike for her kept me from enjoying the pairing so while I felt for Johnny, I wasn't all broken up about it.

For some reason I'm always entertained by Dutch.

Missed Alvis this week though I'm glad we got to see Pree.

Edited by Advance35
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And...we get motivation. Delle-ightful Seyah is looking for a safe way to immortality. The 6 process is too dangerous. So what do you do? Test it on a gazoodle of westerlies (with easy brain-poke clean-up) and get the process down right. The scar backs actually made me gasp. Were they real or did I miss something there? When it comes to green goo, why are scar backs always in the middle of things? Eh, Uncles and Aunties? (Not a lot of Aunties shown -- bad casting choice)

Fancypants is back. He has more than a single line of "Mathtuh, Igor is here". I bet he does nothing in the finale. Sigh.

Great way out for Pawter -- she never got the game and Dell Seyah lives the game. What especially made me love her exit is that she didn't die because of Johnny. It was always the story about her relationship between her status and her personhood. That, I'm pleased to say, was no fridging. 

As for D'avin, was it me or did he go first person shooter at one point --shot for shot by camera? That was such a brilliant summary of his character.

And poor Dutch. She's been shortchanged by the plot for the last few episodes. I don't like "helpless" Dutch ever. And I don't like the hints of twu wuv between her and johnny. I take my ship as family please, not as romance. But the writers will do what the writers will do.

Lucy, as ever, was the best. Love her.

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10 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

Dav has been cracking me up this season.  I was lukewarm on him in Season 2 but now I like him as much (well almost as much as Dutch and Johnny).

D'Avin: "My asshole is bigger than his asshole"

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As usual (with each new episode), my hope and belief was further strengthened.  And now that the good doctor is dead?  It almost seems like it'd be an 'upset' if Du/J does not happen [at least before the series ends (unless it gets a surprise cancellation before ML plans to end it)].  Even D'avin is seeing it now (finally).  That whole 'jealousy of Pawter' exchange right before setting out to save Old Town and kill Jelco, and the lingering 'considering' look on D'avin to end the scene?  I could go on about all the instances of a Du/J PLI in this episode, but it'd be a lengthy list.  *whistles jauntily and waits for next week for more clues*

I never really did like DSK.  She's always been smarmy and a bitch.  Bit surprised she outed herself so robustly in front of Dutch, though.   Figured she'd try and keep D thinking she was manipulative, but not a crazy murderous psycho who kills someone in front of a crowd; then orders her own people to slaughter the rest.  Wondering why they didn't try and kill D, J & D though.  Not wanting unnecessary trouble with the RAC?  Avoiding Khlyen's wrath for killing Dutch??

I am going to miss Pawter.  (SP must be getting a bigger role in American Gothic?)  The J/P thing was doomed, I saw that coming way back in E5, but I liked her character.  Figured she would die - if at all - next week, kinda blind-sided by the suddenness of it.

Not sure which is more prone to put people down & out, D'avin with a gun or D'avin with his penis.  He's a crack shot with a gun, that's for sure.

Fancy!  Betting we get 'Round 2' between he & D'avin next week, even if just in a spar setting.

And now they're off to see The Wizard (no, not you D'av).  Its Khlyen-time.

 

Line of the night, for my money:  "What, I can't have my Dutch and eat my Pawter too?"

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36
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Pawter is dead but it's not Dutch's fault. God bless the script. 

"...eat my Pawster too..." Look, when you have lines like this, it's time to admit this series is some sort of really wacked out costume romance, an elaborately obsessive fantasy about bustiers and blasters. (Better name than "Killjoys" if I do say so myself.) The people who make this show are probably disappointed at the number of fans who contemplate the plot. This is meant to inspire the kind of fan fiction that doesn't need a plot, I think.

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Borrowing a thought from someone elsewhere... 

DSK never 'signed' the pact, IE didn't cut her hand for the blood oath.  When she took the knife, she instead stabbed Pawter with it, told her cohorts to kill them all and chaos erupted.  So, going by that, someone posited that she's an L6.   Would make sense about her not caring about killing Pawter (& then everyone else in the bar) right in full view of Dutch.  Kind of an overblown reaction to avoid revealing your L6 status, though.  Couldn't she have just wrapped her hand up after the cutting/'signing' and not let anyone see it heal (if she's a 6)?

But I think she still would have done all that though, because she hated Pawter for 'winning' and this let her do what she wanted with her own version of the peace treaty and Old Town/Westerly.

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Oh, Pawter.  I had a feeling you weren't long for this world episodes ago, but between the talks of staying on the ship as the team doctor and them really ramping up the Dutch/John stuff, I knew this episode was going to be it for you.  Sad, but kind of fitting that it ends with her "winning" against Delle Sayah in the short term, therefore losing against her in the long run.  Her heart was in the right place, but she probably never was cut out for this game.  Although her using some of the Old Town citizens to overload the shield (and killing themselves), was a pretty dark, if successful move on her part.  But she just didn't quite have the instincts, I think, to play on Delle Sayah's level.  Hopefully Sarah Power will land another gig soon.

I do wonder how this will effect John going forward.  On one hand, he obvious has to be shaken up and destroyed by this, but since John provides a lot of the humor on this show, I don't want to have humorless, sad John for too long.  Hopefully, they handle this well.  I still wonder if they're planning on Dutch/John soon, or if this will be dragged out for a bit.  Although, I'm still hoping that Clara will return one day.

At least the mystery has been revealed.  All these walls are being used to actually get subjects to make a shit-ton of Level 6s.  Yep, the news just keeps getting worse and worse for the gang.

Not sure what my favorite laugh out loud moment was: the whole "asshole" exchange between John and D'Avin, or Lucy vs. Julian.  Lucy is always the best!

Have a feeling this isn't the last we will see of Jelco.

Fancy!  And I'm guessing Khylen will be making his return next week!

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As to "my asshole is bigger than your asshole" even though the script explicitly claims D'Avin was saying Johnny was smarter than Julian's programmer, it seems to me that this was pretty explicitly a shout out about Luke MacFarlane and Aaron Ashmore.  Ashmore may have played a gay hero (who didn't die!) but an out actor playing an action hero still makes producers, a very conservative bunch, nervous. 

One other notable line, about bringing out the "sentimental bitch," kind of grated on me. Dutch is little dreary when she gets all homicidal (which she's doing a lot lately,) but it just seems lame to tag that as being a bitch. That just comes across as a little self-denigration for being demanding, or maybe for friend-zoning Johnny. Since friend-zoning in real life (I think) is about as common as evil twins, it's a little hard to read this as on the nose humor. 

PS In the writers' room, Johnny likely said Julian's programmer was a dick, whereupon D'Avin stoutly rebuked Julian "My dick is bigger than your dick!" When they had to change it, they went meta.

Edited by sjohnson

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I am going to miss Pawter.  (SP must be getting a bigger role in American Gothic?)  

Spoiler

Nope both her characters got themselves murdered within weeks of each other.   Oops!

This is not really my favorite show.  I watch it because it comes on before Dark Matter and I was enjoying the Johnny/Pawter chemistry.  I don't care at all about Dutch's current storyline and I actively hate D'Avin.  I understand the reasoning for it and there is a good chance I am in the minority but I think killing off Pawter is a mistake.  There were plenty of storylines the show could have told and there were planty of ways to keep her off the ship if the show wanted to just go back to the three main character.  .  For example what happens when a good person with questionable impulse control does a very bad thing but for good reasons?  What happens to her soul in the process?  Pawter could have simply decided to stay on the planet that was more of a home to her then her own home.

Honestly I think I am done with the show at least for now.  

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I disliked last week's episode so I didn't bother commenting on it and after catching the end of this week's episode, now realize why. I could see the build up to Pawter's death. I hate that they killed her. I liked the character and her romance with Johnny. I have always loved the fun lightness of Killjoys, but now the show has killed the joy for me. 

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Lucy cheerfully reminding Johnny that she is a spaceship made me giggle. 

I am REALLY not happy about the death of Pawter. What has always made this show stand out were its rich, likable supporting characters, and this season has seen many of them either go away or get killed. It also casts a dark shadow over this whole show, especially for Johnny, who is our comic relief puppy who serves as the shows moral center. Now what happens to him? Will he get darker and angstier? Thats not as interesting as the way Johnny has always been. Will he get over it in an episode? That makes him look callus, and the writers lazy. Plus, we lose a good character who still had plenty of possibilities for growth and storytelling, even when she isn't just being Johnnys love interest. It just sucks. 

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3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Lucy cheerfully reminding Johnny that she is a spaceship made me giggle. 

Johnny: "Lucy, put on your analysis pants"
Lucy: "I don't wear pants"
Johnny: "I know, I'm just ..."
Lucy: "I'm a spaceship John"
Johnny: "I ....... nevermind"

I liked this exchange between the brothers
Johnny: "It's weird"
D'Avin: "What's weird ?  You chose Dr. Crazypants over Our Lady of Perpetual Ass-kicking.  Dutch got jealous."
Johnny: "Have you met Dutch ? Does that sound like her ?"
D'Avin: "No. It does not. So when are you going to man up and ask her what it's really about ? 'Cause it kind looks like you already made the choice anyway." <D'avin points to the wedding ring on Johhny's ring finger>
 

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I liked this exchange between the brothers
Johnny: "It's weird"
D'Avin: "What's weird ?  You chose Dr. Crazypants over Our Lady of Perpetual Ass-kicking.  Dutch got jealous."
Johnny: "Have you met Dutch ? Does that sound like her ?"
D'Avin: "No. It does not. So when are you going to man up and ask her what it's really about ? 'Cause it kind looks like you already made the choice anyway." <D'avin points to the wedding ring on Johhny's ring finger>
 

Perfect illustration as to why I'm seeing hints of Du/J everywhere when I watch an episode of Killjoys these days [mostly on Dutch's side of the equation] - like I mentioned above, they even have D'avin finally seeing all the hints now, that have been right in front of his face for the last 5 episodes.

And were those actual wedding rings, or just engagement/promise rings?   Doesn't really matter now that Pawter's dead, but unsure of the totality of the rings' symbolism.

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36

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Well, thank goodness we're back to Dutch being the only "real" female (Lucy doesn't count), and there's no one to take the focus off of her! Personally, I enjoy the guy candy that surrounds her, but at this point it's getting to be like watching an old sixties series where you knew the weekly guest actress would perish of she sniffed around one of the male regulars.

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I thought they could have kept Pawter around for a bit longer (never liked her name though, it sounds like a dog name). Hopefully we won't get too many episodes of Johnny-angst. I like my Johnny light-hearted and witty.

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I'm actually interested in how far and and how long they carry the Johnny angst, myself, KayleyFirefly.   For instance, how's he going to be the Johnny that "keeps the monster in me under control", in terms of his relationship with Dutch, if he's not his normal self?

I see it going one of two ways, personally.  It either carries on for a God-knows-how-long amount of time at which point everyone watching just gets fed up with it, or they'll start off S3 with it already buried waaay in the background.  And its not going to be an "I got Pawter killed" kind of angst (thankfully!), but more about he'll convince himself he needs to stop feeling so much for people, especially romantically.

In fact, I could see that potential for S3;  Dutch keeps realizing how - and how deeply - she feels for Johnny, but he's walled his heart off to protect himself from re-experiencing past traumas.  It would be role reversal between the two, Dutch being the 'feely' one and Johnny being closed off.  I wouldn't be the greatest fan of that scenario, as its terribly cliche in the soap-operatic sense, but it would work thematically.

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36
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By problem @iRarelyWatchTV36 is that I have the feeling that by the end of the season it will be more like "Pawter who?"  Shows tend to deal with the loss of secondary love interests by not dealing with them.  The show didn't want a love triangle show the killed off one of the points and once the initial anger burns off which the writers will probably give Johnny and episode and make him look like a jerk for blaming Dutch and D'Avin the character will never be mentioned or thought of again,  

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I hear that concern @Chaos Theory, and I share it.  Disclaimer at this point, but I ship D/J.  Anyways, even if they go that route somewhat early in S3 [D/J], I think they'll do their best to brush Pawter's death under the rug and forget about it - aside from the cliche of John trying to 'wall' himself off.  But also consider, they'll be in the midst of fighting a war, or trying to prevent one, so it won't be as if nothing else is going on to make it even more noticeable about the moving on from the death of P & what she represented to Johnny.  I also think John is going be gunning for DSK, with single-minded vengeance.

 

On a lighter note, here was the 2nd most funny exchange of the episode;  John/Dutch: "Its like all the guards just took off somewhere."  D'avin: "Where, the Asshole Jamboree?"  John: *chuckles* "Ah, I missed this.  Can't believe I tried to do this without you guys."  D'avin:  "Right?  You can't be a badass and make your own jokes, that's just weird."

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36

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Anyways, even if they go that route somewhat early in S3 [D/J], I think they'll do their best to brush Pawter's death under the rug and forget about it - aside from the cliche of John trying to 'wall' himself off.  But also consider, they'll be in the midst of fighting a war, or trying to prevent one, so it won't be as if nothing else is going on to make it even more noticeable about the moving on from the death of P & what she represented to Johnny. 

I just didn't get any gravitas to their relationship that would warrant endless angst.  Purely subjective, but for it kind of came out of nowhere and that could be because I haven't rewatched Season 1 in a long time and the Pawter character never jumped out at me.   She was trying to hang on (her desperation really turned me off the character as well ) to D'avin with her "treatments" lol.  Then this season Pawter and Johnny's eyes met and the stars were aligned in just the right constellation and away we went?!?!?!   I think Johnny can mourn for one episode but he can be functional next season when between season's some time will have passed.

I do think shows like this need to feed someone to the grinder to remind me as a viewer that there is a real stake to all of this and in all honesty out of everyone who's been a guest star, Pawter is who I would nix too.   

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Oh man, I did not like this episode.  Yeah, I don't like the fact that Pawter died.  She grew on me.  I do think her role this season felt a little weirdly amped up and her romance with Johnny felt a little insta-love.  But still i liked where they seemed to be taking her role.  But then they killed her.

And as much as I like Delle as a villain, she has gotten positively mustache-twirly which always turns me off.

Last season the show did a good job of building the world and showing the differences between the quad planets and creating relationships between everyone with each successive episode.  Now this season seems to be narrowing that with each episode.  Is Delle that bad ass that no one else in any other family is worthy to challenge her, is onto her, isnt already doing their own similar thing?  You'd think someone would have copped to her after that genetic bomb thingy from last season.  Pawter was positioned to be that person to really challenge her, and given the glimpse we saw of their girlish rivalry it would have been great to watch that power struggle unfold.  So it is a shame they went the direction they did.  Instead of delicious political rivalry we got shocking!death!   And God, i hate that Jelco has become such a cockroach.  Will nothing get rid of him?

Also  Khlyen and Fancy and level 6 are so central to Dutch's big mystery and yet they are MIA for many episodes.  Instead we get thrown random walk on characters each episode that disappear just as quickly.

I would have not thought it could happen with such a fun and crazy show, but the last couple of eps have been rather depressing.  Sure the quips are fast and furious, but the tone has gotten so dark. 

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19 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

And were those actual wedding rings, or just engagement/promise rings?   Doesn't really matter now that Pawter's dead, but unsure of the totality of the rings' symbolism.

Hmmm, if they did, in fact, get married would that mean Johnny has a stake in some Family inheritance? If so, I can imagine the potential Queshi red-tape would make the Wall look like wet tissue paper.

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From what we've seen of Pawter's parents marriage I'd say Johnny has zero claims to anything. First I'm pretty sure marriage rites need to be performed according to a gazillion of Qureshi rituals - some drug induced vows on Westerley are definitely not enough. And even if their (hypothetical) marriage was legal it's highly likely that blood-line claims overrule everything else when it comes to inheritance. No way a couple of families could amass that much power and property without inheritance laws that keep outsiders out for good.

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Just as I feared for Pawter's life, after her "I could die" line in FMM....  I now fear for Pree a little bit, what with his line to Dutch about "you, me, and going out in a blaze of glory".  And Dutch's follow-up of "We'll do it another time.  Promise."

*does the Scarback prayers for Pree*

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This episode depressed me - not just Pawter's death, but also seeing Dutch being tortured and the citizens of Old Town dying on the wall. 

But there were still enough quips to keep it from being completely hopeless for me. D'Avin is still the master of the one-liners ("Our Lady of Perpetual Ass Kicking" was my favorite).

I was ecstatic when I saw Fancy. And I'm glad Khlyen is back next week.

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3 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

But there were still enough quips to keep it from being completely hopeless for me. D'Avin is still the master of the one-liners ("Our Lady of Perpetual Ass Kicking" was my favorite).

Dutch: "John, this whole damn place is empty"
Johnny: "Yah, here too. Where'd they send all the guards ?"
D'avin: "Asshole jamboree"
Johnny: "Why'd I ever try to do this alone, right ?"
D'avin: "Can't be bad-ass and make your own jokes. It's just weird."

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I don't like this show enough to be this annoyed by the death of Pawter.  I think maybe the Johnny/Pawter relationship was one of the things that kept me coming back.   I have zero interest in the will they/won't they or the love triangle that is probably going to happen between Johnny/Dutch/D'avin.  I actually find it annoying.   I would have much orefered the show find a half assed excuse to keep Pawter on planet whole the trio go adventuring and have Johnny just have some every three episodes or so to come home to and maybe throw her a storyline or two a season.

i think I am pretty much done with the show.

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