S02.E08: Grotesque

[raven]

On 8/25/2016 at 7:28 PM, Raven1707 said:

Don't tell anyone, but I like it too. (It'll be our little secret, eh?)

I like it three and because I find Nick an interesting character and Dillane a good actor, I liked this episode.  I think one of Nick's many issues is "the world revolves around me" syndrome - he has shown to do things for other people, but being the focus of so much drama in his life, the current state of the world seems (to him) tailor made for how he wants to be, so he abandoned his family because they want the world back the way it was.  Since I imagine Dillane is here for the long haul and I doubt the show would make Nick a villain, something will happen eventually for him to start caring more about the living.  It's a different tack from crazy Lizzie because I don't think Nick seems the dead as thinking people to be reasoned with; he just sees an uncomplicated way of un-life. He seemed happy at the end to be in a thriving community and may choose to contribute to it; he's had others taking care of him for most of his life and is probably glad to be away from Maddie being so overbearing.

The guy who stopped shooting because he spotted a living Nick amongst the herd and then died because he didn't go back to the jeep was pretty dumb though. 

On 8/27/2016 at 4:14 AM, BasilSeal said:

that people find animal deaths in film and TV more affecting that the deaths of human characters.

For me, there is an innocence about animals doing what they need to survive as opposed to people who usually bring about their downfall through their own stupid and/or evil choices.  I FF'd through the dogs this episode because the squealing would have been upsetting; it would bring up a memory of a loyal, lovable animal being distressed.  Sorry to say, but there ARE useless, evil people walking the earth and if every human being on the planet disappeared tomorrow, the animals and the rest of the world would continue on just fine. 

I think's Nick little smile was because he saw the herd; he knew he was getting out of his predicament and he likes walking among the dead.  I mean, he was in peril because of predators, it's not like he was enjoying watch a bunch of puppies getting torn apart.

[JackONeill]

To me, this thing about Nick (and Celia) thinking that the walkers are still their loved ones stretches the imagination. Look, if the walkers were harmless and just walked around bouncing into walls, then maybe I could think more about it. But walkers would hesitate NOT a minute to kill AND eat you, regardless if you are their sweet mother or their Uncle Harry that they disliked. I am far from a religious person, but, to me, to keep walkers as they are, it's almost if you're keeping them into purgatory. I'd think if the walkers could speak, they'd say, "Put me out of my misery (and the misery of any living person I happen to run across)." As a walker, they commit sins. No religious person wants to commit sins, nor should they commit sins. When dead (as in dead-dead), then the idea of redemption and being at peace presents itself.

Edited August 28, 2016 by JackONeill

[raven]

I don't think Nick believes the walkers are still their loved ones; I think he knows there's no sentience there.  I think he has a weird fascination with death and with observing the zombies and thinks he's special and can hide among them. 

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I'd think if the walkers could speak, they'd say, "Put me out of my misery (and the misery of any living person I happen to run across)."

I think they would too - I wouldn't want to know my rotten body is wandering around killing people.   In TWD universe most living people either kill them like vermin or obsess about them; there doesn't seem to be much middle ground (there was some trying to understand them scientifically in the TWD but I won't get into that here).

Edited August 28, 2016 by raven

[SoSueMe]

On 8/25/2016 at 0:29 PM, BasilSeal said:

Well they did save him, to be fair. There's a symmetry in the narrative here between the bandits that try to kill nick being eaten by the herd, and the dogs which attack him also suffering a similar fate. I think we're also supposed to draw a parallel between the dogs which attack out of primitive instinct and men who commit violent acts simply because in this lawless world they can.

I actually quite like this show, I think much of the hostility towards it stems from the fact that many expect it to be a clone of The Walking Dead but with different people in it, when it's actually a very different show in tone and content. It even looks different because it's shot in such bright light as opposed to the dingy gloom of TWD.

You make excellent points about drawing comparisons to TWD. I just want to say that personally, my own hostility stems from having characters that are too dumb to live, and I am only half joking. That and finding Madison insufferable.

[allthatglitters]

I'm still at a loss as to why Nick would ever leave his family, and the group.  Even if he thought they didn't understand his new epiphany on zombie love, it was his mother! his sister! and others that he had fought with, helped, and been helped by, gone through hellish times with. He acted like a rich kid brat that decides to run away to 'show em all'. 

And I don't understand this smear a little guts on you and you're A ok by the living dead. Yet if it dries up just a little too much it doesn't work? Like when he was trapped on the hood of the car. Suddenly he smells just fine for a meal. Then next scene he is once again wandering in their midst with a new bit of guts on him. Did he use doggy guts? Does that work too? And why doesn't everyone here and in TWD all carry a coverall or coat dripping with zombie guts in a bag with them at all times if this works so well?  Whenever they are in a jam, being chased, or cornered by walkers, simply pull out your zombie suit and rub a little on your face and viola! you are just one of the undead gang and can simply walk through them back to your car or where ever. Getting supplies etc. should never be dangerous at all with that method.

And the scene with the 'badasses' that STILL haven't learned to step back out of the walkers reach. Just stupid characters and stupid writing. And why do they even stop to use up a lot of ammunition on the undead, which would not be manufactured any more. what is the point? Even for psychopaths it would be boring after a while not being able to actually inflict any real pain or suffering. In fact they were helping them RIP. 

[piequinn35]

On 8/26/2016 at 5:13 PM, BasilSeal said:

But you're ok with people getting eaten, right?

Yes I am okay with zombies eating humans specially stupid/dumb humans :) 

humans eating humans, no

zombies eating animals, no

:)

[Raven1707]

The Live +3 Ratings are in for "Grotesque":

 

The return of “Fear the Walking Dead” came in at its lowest same-day rating ever, and it’s adding viewers at a somewhat slower pace in delayed viewing as well.

The AMC show had the biggest adults 18-49 gain for the week of Aug. 15-21, growing by 0.9 points (1.6 to 2.5). That’s behind what “Fear” typically added during its spring run, which tended to grow by 1.1 to 1.3 after three days. [5.756 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/08/28/cable-live-3-ratings-aug-15-21-2016/

 

And here are the Live + 3 Ratings for Season 2, so far:

04-10-16 “Monster” 6.674 million; Live +3 8.826 million
04-17-16 “We All Fall Down” 5.581 million; Live +3 7.781 million
04-24-16 “Ouroboros” 4.726 million; Live +3 6.995 million
05-01-16 “Blood on the Streets” 4.803 million; Live + 3 6.958 million
05-08-16 “Captive” 4.414 million; Live +3 6.924 million
05-15-16 “Sicut Cervus” 4.486 million; Live +3 6.784 million
05-22-16 “Shiva” 4.388 million; Live +3 6.663 million

08-21-16 “Grotesque” 3.864 million; Live +3 5.756 million

[BasilSeal]

On 28/08/2016 at 11:58 PM, SoSueMe said:

You make excellent points about drawing comparisons to TWD. I just want to say that personally, my own hostility stems from having characters that are too dumb to live, and I am only half joking. That and finding Madison insufferable.

I take your point but i would argue that where it falls down is, IMO, that the characters in TWD are even dumber, and tend to be more poorly drawn and inconsistent to boot. Up until now i've thought that the fTWD characters have made better choices, up to a point, and have got their heads round what surviving in the ZA actually entails much more quickly. I included the phrase 'up until now ' in that last sentence because i've watched the next episode, which really should have been titled Dawn of the Dumb, where they turn the stupid up to eleven and rather spoil my argument that the Grizwolds are the smarter branch of the TWD family.

[BasilSeal]

On 28/08/2016 at 9:27 PM, raven said:

I think he knows there's no sentience there.  I think he has a weird fascination with death and with observing the zombies and thinks he's special and can hide among them. 

Arguably there is s level of sentience there because they react to stimuli and appear to be driven by basic needs to carry out autonomous acts. There's no remnant of the  dead person's personality, but walkers must be able to see and hear and, more importantly, process this information. They also have sufficient perception to differentiate between other walkers and the living

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

Arguably there is s level of sentience there because they react to stimuli and appear to be driven by basic needs to carry out autonomous acts. There's no remnant of the  dead person's personality, but walkers must be able to see and hear and, more importantly, process this information.

At its basest level, sentience means nothing more than responding to one's senses - sight, sound, touch, etc.  Sentience does not necessarily imply cognition (process of thought).

 

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They also have sufficient perception to differentiate between other walkers and the living

Again - depends upon the mechanism of differentiation.  Could be as simple as picking up on the ammonia in human sweat.

[catrox14]

Finally watching this episode out of Labor Day boredom and I must be losing my mind because I actually didn't ...hate it? I think Nick is interesting for whatever weird reasons.Don't get me wrong, the episode was still bad but I was interested in Nick's journey here. And good grief Kim Dickens has totally forgotten how to act because the scene where she tells Nick his dad died was fucking terrible.
 

[ganesh]

The main problem for me is that while I don't mind a slow moving show, but an aimless show isn't a good show. Nick wandering around drinking pee isn't compelling tv. I could just call my ex wife for that. It's less not bad when you watch back to back, but still.

I have an overall problem with the total show universe philosophy of society breaking down and seemingly *everyone* is a bandit. I can only recall two people total actually trying to figure out what was going on. The one time we heard someone on the radio they wanted to eat everyone. You'd think you'd just run into more types people by accident. I was shocked the doctor was helpful. I'm assuming everyone in this new community of going to kill one another by next week. 

Edited September 5, 2016 by ganesh

[Anela]

Ugh!!!

I made the mistake of leaving the recordings on the DVR, to watch when I wasn't watching anything else, and damn it - dogs, again? Hearing them cry out as the zombies ate them, and then Nick running over to eat some of that himself? I feel sick. 

Nick also seemed to enjoy it, and was seeing the zombies as his pals. At least, that's how I looked at it. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Anela

[Jordan27]

I too thought the episode was okay.  I think it was good to separate the family from all the soap opera nonsense.  And the episode before this one was the worst of the series.  So, the show could only go up. 

Yep, sure the bad guy was dumb to just let the walkers get him.  Trying to pick up his bullets rather than get back to the car made no sense. 

But, I sort of enjoyed Nick's trek across America.  Not Walking Dead, but at least some of it was average.

[Nashville]

On September 7, 2016 at 4:15 AM, Anela said:

Ugh!!!

I made the mistake of leaving the recordings on the DVR, to watch when I wasn't watching anything else, and damn it - dogs, again? Hearing them cry out as the zombies ate them, and then Nick running over to eat some of that himself? I feel sick. 

Nick also seemed to enjoy it, and was seeing the zombies as his pals. At least, that's how I looked at it. 

Well, considering the same dogs were trying to eat Nick just a few minutes earlier, I'll cut Nick some slack on that'un.  Turnabout is fair play.  :)

 

8 hours ago, Jordan27 said:

But, I sort of enjoyed Nick's trek across America.  Not Walking Dead, but at least some of it was average.

I thought his name was Nick Clark, not Jack Kerouac.

[nachomama]

23 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I thought his name was Nick Clark, not Jack Kerouac.

Hey if his name was Willie Nelson, braiding his hair would be an improvement!

[Jordan27]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 10:30 AM, Nashville said:

Well, considering the same dogs were trying to eat Nick just a few minutes earlier, I'll cut Nick some slack on that'un.  Turnabout is fair play.  :)

 

I thought his name was Nick Clark, not Jack Kerouac.

I don't think it matters.  They aren't checking ID's in this show.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I've been catching up with this on HULU and the only reason I am watching is that I work overnight shifts and have the time.  Each episode makes me angry. Why stoopey Nick wants to wander around alone and he gets so many chances.  The guts thing also bothers me.  If he ate some of the dog after the dead wouldn't he get infected?  Also, the gut smell only lasts for so long.  They are never going to show us this guy looking halfway decent.  I prefer his human garbage suit over his addict hair though.

The guys getting eaten by those slow ass walkers when they had guns and a jeep was RIDICULOUS.