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Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

S04.E25: The Time Has Come Today

Primetimer

By Primetimer
in Beverly Hills, 90210

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lynnwarner

lynnwarner

First of all, why would an 18-year-old college freshman be grounded? Isn't this the same girl that asserted her independence and moved in with her boyfriend in high school?

There's no way my parents would have grounded me at that age.

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SoupThrower

SoupThrower

I feel like Priestley was like :| when he saw the script. I feel like all the actors were like :| and I feel like everyone is just like :|

Wendy is a horrible writer. Dammit Wendy. :|

At least they got the right year for 2001: A Space Odyssey.


People who couldn't get lock down the soundtrack are the worst. The worst more like a thousands Brandon breying.  

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Nanna

Nanna

I'm sorry, but I kind of love this episode in a very cheesy way. I like that in Brenda's subconscious, Brandon is just as big a brayfest as we all seem to think. And that Dylan - sorry, "Peter" - is soooo terrible. And that Brenda really deep down hopes that Kelly will go down in flames. Or in drugs. Michelle's diary is just an excuse for Brenda to live her fantasies out, and I just can't help loving it, although it is the worst sixties portrait in the history og television.

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itainttippithebird

itainttippithebird

Oh, how I have been gleefully anticipating this episode coming up on AWT! The costuming on this episode is the lazier than a half-assed theme party where everyone just grabbed something vaguely hippie-adjacent and threw it on as they headed out the door. SO good/bad!

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Beeparoonie

Beeparoonie

Omg, thank you, I am laughing so hard listening! I have always liked this dorky episode for some reason I have no explanation for, and the commentary on it is cracking me up and improving an otherwise dreary work day :)
That wig on Dylan/Peter!!! What the hell IS that thing? And what era is it from???
And yeah, I am not sure actual hippies would be so "ooooh! We're sooo naughty!" about trying a joint. I think that was not really an out-of-the-ordinary kind of a thing.
My favorite dramatically cheesy line might be, "I wanted to be the girl with the tambourine."
Ohh dear, that scene w/earthy Andrea and her flower and her dancing *shakes head*...oh, Nana...
Lol at Joe Tata's Chef Boyardee impression :)
One thoughts about Shannen's tendency to mush mouth - and I hate to pick on her as I know she has some serious health issues currently going on - so I mean this with love, but to this day and after MANY watchings of these eps, I have never been able to figure out the actual name of the drama professor we will soon meet in the Maggie the Cat debacle. Roy Randolph? Rory Randolph?? Roy-ry Randolph??? Please enunciate, Brinda!

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kermitmissesjim

kermitmissesjim

I love this episode because it's over-the-top BAD, and a way to play out some fan fantasies. Dylan (Peter) and Brinda Wash (Windy) macking again! Braydon (Will) braying on the wrong side of history and dying for it! David and Donna doing the deed in no-show, all-tell Daddy-Spelling approved style! Noxious Kelly becoming her druggie mother! Very little Andrea, and then so horribly stereotypical!

But the ultimate glory moment is Carol Potter's commitment to dumpy 50s-hangover housewife. Her part on the show in the 90s was a step back for women, and I firmly believe she camped up Windy's mom on purpose.

The loss of music rights is awful in every episode, but extra glaring here.

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maxineofarc

maxineofarc

(edited)

Carol Potter is a gem. A GEM.

I will say that when I was at college in the early 90s, at least SOMEONE at the registrar's office had no trouble handing out my address to a super sketchy dude that I did not want to have it, so the scenario isn't as implausible as one might think.

Edited by maxineofarc
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txhorns79

txhorns79


 

Quote

But the ultimate glory moment is Carol Potter's commitment to dumpy 50s-hangover housewife. Her part on the show in the 90s was a step back for women, and I firmly believe she camped up Wendy's mom on purpose.

I don't know if I would go so far as to say the Cindy character was a step back for women, so much as the show simply was not interested in Cindy (or Jim really) beyond their role as parents to Brenda and Brandon.  

If you really want to talk about a backwards step for women, you have the show's designated "brain" become pregnant, keeping the baby and marrying a guy she barely knows at age 18/19.  Now that is a retrograde plotline.  

And I always enjoy that Brenda honestly acts surprised that Wendy's real friends don't look like the gang.        

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queenbee9b

queenbee9b

Quote

I will say that when I was at college in the early 90s, at least SOMEONE at the registrar's office had no trouble handing out my address to a super sketchy dude that I did not want to have it, so the scenario isn't as implausible as one might think.

I work in as an alumni affairs professional and that sucks.  We are so strict with our info, we give nothing out and if someone wants to get in touch then they have to tell us in writing that we can send their information to the person they are trying to contact.  We won't even tell parents and spouses info because we don't know what the story is.

There is something about the hilariousness of this episode that I kind of love, in the same way I love the U4EA of episode - they both try to relate to youth culture and then miss the entire reality of it. 

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

This episode has a Brandon moment that resonates my hate: when he's leaving for the ski trip and Brenda is saying she's grounded but she isn't when he confronts Brenda, like, I kind of get why she doesn't want to hang out with those people and be by herself. Or her stupid brother, either. God. Shut up, Brandon. You're the worst.

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AndySmith

AndySmith

(edited)

I liked this episode too. It's cheesy and dumb and obviously filler, but I always somehow enjoy it. Glad I'm not the only who does lol

Quote

And I always enjoy that Brenda honestly acts surprised that Wendy's real friends don't look like the gang.        

I always appreciated that they don't look like the gang. Too many shows do that "Wow, those people from the past looked exactly like we do!" trope, and it's just strange. Heck, don't we learn in a later episode that either one pair of David or Donna's grandparents looked exactly like D&D when they were their age? Ew. So I do enjoy that Wendy's real friends look nothing like that gang.

Edited by AndySmith
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AllyB

AllyB

(edited)

I'm curious about what was going on behind the scenes at this point. The plot of each episode seems to be gearing towards a Brenda and Dylan reunion. We've already had Kelly and Brandon being set up as attracted to each other and the episode before has Kelly saying that Brenda is probably the love of Dylan's life. Here we have Brenda crying about how she still loves Dylan (and the fact that Peter and Wendy road off to Woodstock together is a clear implication that Brenda and Dylan may do the same). Later we have Erica hates Kelly/loves Brenda plotline. Making Dylan rethink his season 3 choice. Which culminates in Kelly and Dylan breaking up and Brenda's 'I won't be in London forever' final line as she and Dylan kiss.

So was there still a possibility that Doherty would have stayed on the show at this point? I was watching these on British tv in the 90s. So by the time they aired we already knew that Doherty was gone and Theissen was replacing her. I found it very confusing watching these episodes, knowing that Brenda was soon to be gone for good. And oddly enough I was rooting so hard for Brenda and Dylan to get back together and was so happy that it eventually happened off-screen, (then annoyed when Dylan came back and retconned it into some crazy fantasy of Brenda's). Because I was in Brenda's position of having my long term boyfriend and first love, cheat on me with my best friend, cover it up, have them get together immediately after we broke up and eventually I found out about the cheating. And as soon as I found out, I definitely had the 'I hate you both, never talk to me again,' reaction. Except with me it stuck as the anger I felt at the betrayal killed any love I had for either of them. And when that faded all that was left was complete indifference. I would never have wanted to get back together with my ex, yet I rooted for just that to happen to Brenda. As an adult however, I just wish she had gotten a bit deeper into her relationship with Reek before introducing him to Jim. If she'd seen how well he got on with Jim after she was smitten with him, she'd probably have just been pleased her father and new boyfriend got on well. then she could have spent her last year and a half on the show happily fucking Dean Cain and being so happy that she dodged the Dylan trainwreck. Instead, even in the 2008 spin-off there is an implication that Brenda still harbours feelings for Dylan. She is chatting with Kelly, who has left as an abandoned single mother, showing him to be the biggest douche-nozzle possible, and they both seem to still be waiting for him to choose one of them to love forever.

Edited by AllyB
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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

At this point in the series I've always thought that they knew there was a 99% chance that Shannen was leaving.  At the same time they obviously decided to explore Kelly/Brandon in season 5 in spite of Shannen's status and were setting that up.  I think what we are seeing in these episodes is them making sure to have something ready in the event that the 1% chance of her staying actually came through.  So, they set up Brenda/Dylan to reunite in the finale like they do.  If Shannen leaves, then they're giving the Brenda/Dylan fans a gift and if she stays they're setting up Kelly/Brandon vs Brenda (and sometimes Dylan). 

Seeing how they brought Val in to be an antagonist in general and to Kelly specifically, I've always assumed that Brenda's continued isolation from the group would have continued and she and Kelly would have been at war similar to Val and Kelly.  Val's season 5 story can fit Brenda with only a handful of changes.  I can't see Brenda running the After Dark, nor can I see her getting involved with Steve or Ray but I can see her helping Dylan get his money back and I can see everyone siding with Kelly against her.  Brenda could still be called a slut for seeming to sleep with Roy Randolph to get the part of Maggie that taints her every move like it did Val.  Brandon could still feel like his loyalties were divided, though I think he treated Val far better than he ever did Brenda.  Hell, Bren could go back to smoking cigarettes or pot like Val, have a sketchy London theater BFF who acts like Ginger, and be sugary sweet to the gang's face while rolling her eyes behind their backs.  Kelly would have to find something else to judge Brenda about in the season premiere since there wouldn't be a suicidal parent in the backstory, but I'm sure she could come up with something.  The line about "four semesters of Abnormal Psych" would definitely stay as that's one of my favorite "Kelly's inadvertently being portrayed as self-righteous who we're supposed to side with but only ends up looking like a dumbass so I'll be over here on Team Val, thanks" moments.

Not that I actually know what the details behind the scenes were at this point but that's how I've always seen it.

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AndySmith

AndySmith

I always thought the show exploring Brandon/Kelly was something of a back-up, in case SD wouldn't be returning. I think they would have continued the Brenda/Dylan/Kelly triangle had she stayed. However, since she left, they decided to go ahead with Brandon and Kelly as a couple, and shift the triangle to Dylan/Kelly/Brandon. I really don't see Brandon&Kelly and Dylan&Brenda co-existing on the show as couples had SD not left the show. If anything, the final scene between Dylan and Brenda looks more and more like a tease designed to keep the audience guessing as to whether or not Brenda/SD would return, even though wasn't it public knowledge back then that she wouldn't?

With that said...

Quote

Seeing how they brought Val in to be an antagonist in general and to Kelly specifically, I've always assumed that Brenda's continued isolation from the group would have continued and she and Kelly would have been at war similar to Val and Kelly.  Val's season 5 story can fit Brenda with only a handful of changes.  I can't see Brenda running the After Dark, nor can I see her getting involved with Steve or Ray but I can see her helping Dylan get his money back and I can see everyone siding with Kelly against her.  Brenda could still be called a slut for seeming to sleep with Roy Randolph to get the part of Maggie that taints her every move like it did Val.  Brandon could still feel like his loyalties were divided, though I think he treated Val far better than he ever did Brenda.  Hell, Bren could go back to smoking cigarettes or pot like Val, have a sketchy London theater BFF who acts like Ginger, and be sugary sweet to the gang's face while rolling her eyes behind their backs.  Kelly would have to find something else to judge Brenda about in the season premiere since there wouldn't be a suicidal parent in the backstory, but I'm sure she could come up with something.  The line about "four semesters of Abnormal Psych" would definitely stay as that's one of my favorite "Kelly's inadvertently being portrayed as self-righteous who we're supposed to side with but only ends up looking like a dumbass so I'll be over here on Team Val, thanks" moments.

I don't see any of that happening, at all, had Brenda stayed.

Brenda wasn't that isolated from the group, unless I missed all those scenes of the gang sans Brenda hanging out at the Peach Pit, making plans to do stuff, and all of those scenes ending with someone saying "P.S. Don't tell Brenda!". If anything, I always felt her isolation came from her not finding her place in college the way many of the others did. Steve, Donna, and Kelly had their Greek life, David has his music, Brandon was involved in the Task Force, Andrea had her medical research (even if it didn't make sense for her to switch to pre-med, it was still something she found for herself), Dylan had...well, Dylan was content to just do whatever. Brenda seemed to ping pong throughout her first year, trying to find her place. She started acting, got sidetracked with Stuart, tried to find her place as an animal rights activist, that didn't work out. So she went back to acting, and discovered that is where she should have been involved along. We saw plenty scenes of Brenda hanging out with the group overall, and many scenes of her hanging out with various people like Donna and other girls. So it wasn't she was in some black hole away from the rest of the group all season long.

I also don't see them shifting Brenda into such an antagonistic role. Even if she and Kelly didn't reconcile after the whole auditioning fiasco, she did reconcile with Steve, was still really good friends with Dylan and Donna, she and Andrea reconciled after the research lab drama, and she never had any problems with David. No way at all can Brenda be shifted to fit Val's story. The whole point of Val was to bring in someone to replace Brenda, but not have her filling the role of Brenda. Val was a way for them to bring in an Amanda Woodward type into the show, and a good way for them to shake things up for season 5, along with some other changes, like breaking up Donna and David, and having Dylan lose his money and falling way off the wagon (none of which I think would have happened to him had SD/Brenda stayed on the show). Val worked in that role in a way Brenda never would have.

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AllyB

AllyB

So it was mainly just a big tease to the audience and possibly a bit of a gift to Brenda/Dylan fans. Similar I guess to the audience being told that Dylan and Brenda were together off screen once Luke Perry left the show. Presumably if Perry had never returned for the final season Brenda and Dylan would probably stayed together or even married off screen.

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Petunia13

Petunia13

(edited)

It's because Brenda and Dylan loved each other and had a respect for each other the way Kelly and Dylan never did. So if they knew SD is leaving the PTB had better get her a proper send off and some good B&D moments. 

Val had a very hard childhood so she was different from the rest of the gang (including Brenda) so it makes sense why she was more mature, jaded and scrappy. She's like a feral stray cat in how she desperate for affection and attention and motivated she was about self preservation. Of course, Kelly was such a bitch and made her life so much worse. Kelly and Brandon at the point were long established as the moral core of BH and so righteous, but their judgementality and pettiness were amazing. 

Edited by Petunia13
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Maherjunkie

Maherjunkie

Quote

She is chatting with Kelly, who has left as an abandoned single mother, showing him to be the biggest douche-nozzle possible, and they both seem to still be waiting for him to choose one of them to love forever.

So the last time I see the show and Kelly is shot and pregnant, it isn't Brandon's but Dylan's, or does that happen later off screen?  I have no knowledge of 90210 at all.

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AllyB

AllyB

14 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

So the last time I see the show and Kelly is shot and pregnant, it isn't Brandon's but Dylan's, or does that happen later off screen?  I have no knowledge of 90210 at all.

Kelly was a major character on 90210 and Brenda and Donna both had minor roles. The first episode featured a Brenda/Kelly reunion which was advertised heavily to pull in the old viewers. Kelly was the counsellor at West Beverly High and single mother to a little boy she had with Dylan. Brenda was supposed to be a well known actor doing a favour for her old school by coaching the students for the school play. Both women are still hung up on Dylan, who is off travelling and 'finding himself' or some shit. The guy is clearly a complete stinking douchebag at this point, who's own naval gazing is more important to him than being there for his 4 year old. But the successful actress and the professional counsellor with a masters in psychology who has to deal with the fall out of her son missing his daddy, are both still pining for him. It was frustrating in the extreme.

We also learned that Brandon was happily married with kids and living in Belize. Andrea is in Beverly Hills with her daughter Hannah attending West Beverly. But apart from a brief scene with Hannah where a joke is made about her looking 30, they never feature. Donna is a successful fashion designer living in Japan with David. They have a baby daughter and Donna visits Kelly in BH and tells her she and David separated, but in Donna's last scenes she gets a note from David wanting to get back together. I don't think Steve was ever mentioned. And Nat was a regular character, still running the Peach Pit. I was never interested in the spin-off series, probably too old for it, but I did fast forward through to watch the original characters appearances.

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Petunia13

Petunia13

(edited)

Dylan's little sister was too old to be on 90210 the sequel series. Erin who by then was called Silver had a large part and carried much of the story. The strange thing with her was 

Spoiler

She had bipolar disorder. David her brother had bipolar mother. Erin was related to David through their father (shrugs). So a bit coincidental, I don't know if Mel had mental illness on his side?

I found it hard to believe or understand that Erin would go through the loss of her mom and several nervous breakdowns and fucking Donna and David would be uninvolved. Also it was shitty they killed Jackie who was one of the best characters of the 90210 universe. I liked the sequel,  I loved Naomi and Max and messy Adrianna. I enjoyed ripping on that asshole Liam he was like a more sleazy version of Dylan and snarking Annie who stunk up the joint imho. 

Edited by Petunia13
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luckyroll3

luckyroll3

18 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

Dylan's little sister was too old to be on 90210 the sequel series. Erin who by then was called Silver had a large part and carried much of the story. The strange thing with her was 

  Hide contents

She had bipolar disorder. David her brother had bipolar mother. Erin was related to David through their father (shrugs). So a bit coincidental, I don't know if Mel had mental illness on his side?

I found it hard to believe or understand that Erin would go through the loss of her mom and several nervous breakdowns and fucking Donna and David would be uninvolved. Also it was shitty they killed Jackie who was one of the best characters of the 90210 universe. I liked the sequel,  I loved Naomi and Max and messy Adrianna. I enjoyed ripping on that asshole Liam he was like a more sleazy version of Dylan and snarking Annie who stunk up the joint imho. 

I remember David also learning he was

Spoiler

bipolar sometime during the Valerie years,

or am I remembering that wrong?

18 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

Wasn't the sister's name Erica and Kelly's sister named Erin? How did they kill Jackie?  This is a whole new world to me.

 

4 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

Thanks for all the info.  Just so I'm clear, Erica was never in any trouble, it was Kelly's sister?  That seemed like a stretch for a Taylor kid.  I fell off post Doherty and I never watched that sequel.

Erica was Dylan's sister (according to her scam artist mother) who became a hooker that Brandon and Kelly try to save.  Erin AKA Silver is Jackie and Mel's daughter. 

 

20 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

The Walsh parents are mentioned as doing fine but aside from that, nothing. 

Weren't the Walsh's friends or cousins of the parents of the new set of twins?  I really have trouble remembering much about that show besides how awesomely villainous Adriana was and how awful Annie was.

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

(edited)
1 hour ago, luckyroll3 said:

I remember David also learning he was

  Hide contents

bipolar sometime during the Valerie years,

or am I remembering that wrong?

 

Erica was Dylan's sister (according to her scam artist mother) who became a hooker that Brandon and Kelly try to save.  Erin AKA Silver is Jackie and Mel's daughter. 

 

Weren't the Walsh's friends or cousins of the parents of the new set of twins?  I really have trouble remembering much about that show besides how awesomely villainous Adriana was and how awful Annie was.

Nope they weren't cousins or friends. At least not that I can recall. Brenda got along with Adrian and spoke of her parents meeting her new adopted baby, but they were never seen or mentioned aside from that. 

It should also be mentioned that Kelly disappeared off the show after her storyline with Jackie happened and the spin off never really mentioned the originals, even though Silver was supposed to be living with Kelly. 

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

1 hour ago, Maherjunkie said:

So there were 2 teen hookers on the show?  Seems unusual for that show, or any.

 

You're making me wanna watch that sequel!

I never watched the sequel but Erica was the only teenage hooker that I'm aware of.  She shows up in...season 7 or 8 and then gets shipped to Hawaii to live with Iris.

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luckyroll3

luckyroll3

She was also a filmmaker and I vaguely remember something about her making a sex tape when she was having a manic episode.  I think; I only watched these episodes once (unlike the 100s of times I watched the OG episodes), so the story lines are a bit fuzzy.

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

37 minutes ago, Maherjunkie said:

So Erin/Silver's claim to fame was mental illness?Or did she have other dimensions?

Pretty much what the above poster says. But as for her ending: I'm going to spoil tag because it's the end of the series: 

Spoiler

Silver ends up going to the doctors and finding out she could have possibility of getting cancer because of Jackie so then she decides she wants a baby and she tries to get her ex-boyfriend who happens to be gay to be the father but then things happen, he ends up wanting to be an actual dad to the kid even though that wasn't the plan so then she hires some women to carry her baby and drama happens with that of course and in the last episode of the show, if my memory is correct, we find out via a phone call she has the gene linked to cancer. So thats her ending.

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AllyB

AllyB

(edited)
8 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I never watched the sequel but Erica was the only teenage hooker that I'm aware of.  She shows up in...season 7 or 8 and then gets shipped to Hawaii to live with Iris.

I think she was sent to Iris before she became a hooker. Then she left Iris, became a hooker was rescued by Brandon and Kelly and sent to London to Live with Brenda and Dylan. Then a year or so later Dylan shows up and claims he and Brenda never really lived together in the years he was away. They just got back together briefly and the rest of their relationship was in Brenda's head. So god only knows what really became of Erica?!?

Though obviously Dylan was just a lying douchebag who'd say anything to get back in Kelly's pants. So he could impregnate her and then leave. Throwing her the occasional bone to keep her hanging on. I've just realised that the end of the continuity for the four main women in the original series is that they all ended up single mothers. With the vague possibility that Donna's husband and father of her child may graciously take her back and Kelly and Brenda still being hung up on the (by then) 60 year old stick insect. If we'd met Andrea we'd probably have learned she still pines for Brandon! That's actually so depressing. :(

Edited by AllyB
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Petunia13

Petunia13

(edited)

@WhosThatGirl and @luckyroll3     You guys gave good summary. Anyhow, IMHO,  this one tried to stay more like the first season of 90210 in the element of the Beverly Hills side. Remember the first season of original recipe 90210 it showed the mansions and designer clothes and money more. And then even the rich characters were more accessible and folksy. But the redux stayed kinda showing the rich or baller characters living that way. 

Erin was interesting. Besides all the stuff they said she dated a lot of the guys like 4 or 5 of her bf had dated her girlfriends. When she wasn't in a bipolar episode she was a bit bland, compared to the quirkiness of the others. 

I liked Naomi, Adrianna, Max, Navid, Ivy more. 

Spoiler

Annie, the lead character of the good girl mold, was very annoying and constantly propped as this cute smiley girl next door but she was so cloying and killed someone in a hit and run then it was turned into another opportunity to prop her YAY since it inconvenienced her ??

Edited by Petunia13
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benteen

benteen

(edited)
Quote

and Kelly and Brenda still being hung up on the (by then) 60 year old stick insect.

That line really made me laugh.

I hang my head in shame that I watched some of the first season of 90210.  Dylan as the absentee father continuing to run from his past annoyed me and then at the end didn't he send a message to Kelly for him and the kid to join him in all places on a ranch if Wyoming?  Typical Dylan, running away, hiding behind "his pain" and still controlling the agenda with Kelly, who allows him to do so.

Why was Brandon living in Belize?  Did the entire United States get tired of him and his braying and telling him to get the **** out?

Let's not forget that the great Nat also appeared in a few season one episodes!  But of course, in one of them it's to put over how great Brandon is...

Edited by benteen
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AndySmith

AndySmith

That can always be an issue when doing a reboot/sequel to a TV show...it can make things complicated if certain actors don't return.

Of course, the show didn't need to throw Dylan under the bus. If LP wasn't going to return, there was no need to have him abandoning Kelly and their child, they could have just said he and Kelly were together, they broke up, and he left town. That would have worked and fit in with Kelly's story without turning him into a horrible dad, which given Dylan's back story, makes what he did even worse. And Kelly didn't need to be a single parent anyway.

Similarly, they didn't have to throw Donna and David under the bus either. Especially since Donna was just there for a few episodes. Lots of couples spend time apart due to work reasons, and still stay happily married with kids. Just so much forced drama in the reboot.

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