Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency (2016) - General Discussion

[MarkHB]

I'm wondering if the assassin is also connected to the Mysterious Government Agency (even if she doesn't know it), and if there's some implanted idea about  Dirk.

[ZoqFotPik]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

To me, the story is: what is the relationship between the assassin/kidnapper and Dirk? Why does she want to kill him?

I'm assuming that she is another "Black Wing" subject.

10 hours ago, sjohnson said:

I suspect the kitten is Patrick Spring.

As do I.

I'm curious about Gordon's phone call. He talks about being attacked by a gorilla and giraffe, a shootout at an 'Animal Transfer Unit', and somebody named Rainey being dead. Also, the Bald Guys talk about Patrick Spring being in two places at once. I'm guessing we will be seeing these incidents once the time travel comes into play. I really want to like this show, but I'm being to think that it will just keep piling things on top of each other, until the last 15 minutes of the last episode.

[possibilities]

I understood that the assassin and the detective are both either aliens or supernatural creatures or government-created/magical cyborgs or something like that, and that the govt agency was trying to corral them, because they are too disruptive/uncontrollable "unleashed"-- but they are not giving the budget necessary to accomplish this. So yes, the assassin wants to kill Dirk the way Dirk wants to find "the missing girl"-- not for personal reasons but because they're programmed by the universe/govt/nature/whatever to do so. But to me, the fact that there is an assassin out to kill a detective requires more explanation than why there'd be a detective out to find a missing person. Also, how they are programmed/what makes them tick, in the sense of "is it just that for every action there is an opposing action, so for each one of these folks unleashed, one is automatically created to destroy it? Or...?

The kitten is adorable. And I did laugh when the kidnapped woman licked Todd's face. But overall, I found this week's episode unfunny and kind of annoying.

I hated the shower curtain cape. I mean, take the damn thing off, it's slowing you down. In another mood, I could have found it amusing, but I was too grouchy with the show overall. It suddenly seemed to be taking itself way too seriously, when previously I thought it came across completely silly-on-purpose.

If you're going to have this level of absurdity and chaos, you need some irreverence to wash it down.

Edited October 31, 2016 by possibilities
speling

[Christina]

This came across my Twitter earlier. I haven't read it yet, so I don't know if it is worth reading, but I assume it is safe for work since it is on the BBC America site:

Quote

Editor’s Note: We culled your questions from Facebook and Twitter for this week’s Q&A with Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency crew members. This week it’s Assistant Prop Masters Lily McKinlay, David Lewis, and Tina Rahn.

http://www.bbcamerica.com/shows/dirk-gentlys-holistic-detective-agency/blog/2016/11/crew-qa-give-em-props

[Kelda Feegle]

Just got to this ... on the fence about it really - way more blood and stabby etc than I expected. Can't stand Elijah so that's a problem (obviously excepting anything LOTR). A couple of chuckle moments but more confusion than necessary. I have read the books and this didn't match up to my feelings from them. Giving it another ep to yay or nay.

[huahaha]

On 10/30/2016 at 2:29 PM, ABay said:

I had to stop after a few minutes. I just wasn't enjoying any aspect of it at all, even the corgi.

Yep. I fully hated this episode. The guy who plays Dirk seems hopelessly miscast. The torture and/or imprisonment of two black characters by a white serial killer and a group of skinheads is painful. And I can't take yet another fragile sister of the hero character who may fall for the bad-boy stalker. A brick to the window is not romance.

Burning down someone's house, throwing an animal off a bridge... it's like they used an algorithm to put all the things I hate into a show that sounds like something I'd love (Douglas Adams, BBC, Elijah Wood). This show is all misery when it thinks it's campy fun. Don't care what the payoff for all of it may or may not be. DVR-delete.

Edited November 4, 2016 by huahaha

[ZoqFotPik]

I didn't realize that Chief Tyrol played Gordon Rimmer, or that Bart is Brad Dourif's daughter.

This is definitely a show I'll need to completely rewatch after it's over to pick up on all the things I missed. 

It's weird how sort of nice the Punk Guys are to Amanda. After they did what ever it is they did to her, they brought her home and got her groceries. Presumably they stole them, but still. There was also a lot to unpack in her vision. I saw many images of a woman painted blue, Lighting, some kind of ritual scene, a guy with bloody hands surrounded by fire, Bart possibly when she was younger, a clock, some tv monitors, a map, the Rocker guy and Gordon, Dirk in pain, Todd holding up a mask, a bat, a hammerhead shark, a clown in a field, and the guy with bloody hands saying "I'm just doing my job". I can't tell exactly, but the guy with bloody hands looks like the General's moron assistant. Amanda seems to have a growing attraction to Dirk, just as Farrah seems to be attracted to Todd. So we meet Rainey, who Gordon mentioned is dead last week, in the past and see the result of the shootout in the animal transfer station, also referenced last week. I'm guessing the machine in the basement is a time machine. Speaking of, the door didn't seem all that secure. All you needed to do was move the minute hand slowly enough and you would have found the time eventually. While the adventures of Bart and Ken have been entertaining albeit extremely violent, I hope they join the main storyline soon. Like next episode soon.

[Wanderdown]

The show is interesting, and I am waiting to see how it all falls out.

I just hope Rimmer and Bart never meet in the show.  Their voices are painful to listen to, and both of them on screen at the same time would make my eardrums rebel against me.

[sjohnson]

In one sense, the big scene was Todd, after he realized Dirk's strange power is for real, deciding whether to help him. While I thought they left it as kind of ambiguous. But Todd, despite his human failings, like his cowardice when an armed Farah demanded to be let in, also has some human feeling for others. His effort to get his sister safe and his guilt at lying to her (about his pararibulitis I think, which you just get used to apparently, however that's possible) makes it believable that he might help from basically the goodness of his heart. I think. 

On the other hand, I think Ken is just helping because he sees that as his best hope for her power to save his life, not take it. His specialty in power systems is going to be crucial to the use of the map, so I suspect he "betrays" her for Dirk in the end. At first I thought the show would go for a perverse romantic relationship, but apparently not. This increasingly seems like the kind of show that thinks violent death is much more fun and less creepy/objectionable than eroticism. Which seems much more Max Landis than Douglas Adams. Fortunately I don't remember a thing about the books. Maybe I didn't actually read them?

[MarkHB]

Personally, my favorite scene was Dirk's reaction when he was confronted by the General.  Such a complete sea change from the always "on," manic Dirk we had seen up til then.

Also, Bart may have been wearing the dirtiest underwear ever seen on TV, at least when worn by someone who wasn't imprisoned.  And Ken was perhaps lucky they went for her first.

[theatremouse]

6 hours ago, sjohnson said:

In one sense, the big scene was Todd, after he realized Dirk's strange power is for real, deciding whether to help him. While I thought they left it as kind of ambiguous.

For me that scene was... not so big? Because it was just a mirror of the previous scene wherein the other duo had the same exchange. So that one read a big scene to me and this one was just confirming their sort-of-mirrored-so-far storylines/relationships as being definitely-mirrored.

Edited November 6, 2016 by theatremouse

[shapeshifter]

13 hours ago, ZoqFotPik said:

I didn't realize that Chief Tyrol played Gordon Rimmer...

Me neither!

[kat165]

Mark, I thought that was a good scene too. I was impressed with the Dirk actor then. And interesting, what is Project ??? (I forget now, should have posted last night when it was fresh) that the General mentioned to Dirk, which maybe is not his real name? Project Icarius?

The other scene I really liked combined with above that made this my favoite ep so far is when Dirk and Amanda and Farrah were behind the counter/in the kitchen (?) in Todd's apt and were just talking like a group of friends. And Farrah and Amanda seemed to bond.

I really like this show. I don't care if not everything makes sense.

[MarkHB]

35 minutes ago, kat165 said:

And interesting, what is Project ??? (I forget now, should have posted last night when it was fresh) that the General mentioned to Dirk, which maybe is not his real name? Project Icarius?

Project Icarus. In the scene last week where the lady was demanding that the General bring Dirk in, it was mentioned ( and shown onscreen if you looked closely) that Icarus was Dirk's code name in Black Wing ( was that the name?)

[tenativelyyours]

Was Todd's refusal to let Farah in completely based on being scared?  Or practical depending on how you look at it.  Or was he thinking he might be falling back into the family illness again?  I didn't think about that when we saw the flashback.  But at the end, Todd's realization that it is all real hit home how fragile he has to be with all this shit seeing as how he was in the same place we see his sister not that long ago.  I thought Elijah played that scene really well.

So we know the weird group can transfer personalities into other bodies.  I'm wondering if the hot dumbass with a trigger finger with the Black Wing guy is the result of a transfer since most of the baldies with the head tattoos seem a bit slim on sense? 

I am liking how they are bringing certain threads together.  The whole rock star thing was really funny as it was revealed. 

[shapeshifter]

If the corgi is housing the kidnapped Lydia Spring, is the girl dog in the car the body of Lydia Spring with the corgi inside?

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

If the corgi is housing the kidnapped Lydia Spring, is the girl dog in the car the body of Lydia Spring with the corgi inside?

That's my interpretation.  I hope that actress had a blast playing that part!

[meep.meep]

I loved her barking!  Woof Woof

[theatremouse]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

If the corgi is housing the kidnapped Lydia Spring, is the girl dog in the car the body of Lydia Spring with the corgi inside?

I also assume so. Hence she keeps licking people.

[kat165]

Mark, yeah, I think it was Black Wing.

Tentatively, I liked the rock star thing too. Especially later on when he, in his new incarnation, he hears on the radio that his previous body was found. As usual, taking me awhile to catch on to everyone's names.

Mine too, shapeshifter, which is a really interesting idea. Licking that guy's hand did not look like fun. :) The barking was funny.

[Lebanna]

I'm really enjoying this show. Watching it is a bit like watching a film threaded backwards through a projector of a conical ebony bath filled with fine white sand and/or sugar which is swirling down the plughole. Only it's actually coming back up, because it's backwards, you see. But slightly less relaxing.

Anyway, when that Black Wing guy told Dirk that he wasn't a detective, I mentally shouted 'No he probably isn't, and also leave him alone you bastard!' at my TV. So I guess I'm starting to care a bit about the characters. Loved the rage guys leaving Amanda's shopping with her in the garage, all nicely paper bagged up.

[kat165]

I liked that 2 walls of lightbulbs. It was great visual when they first turned on. Plus the tv I'm watching it on sucks so it was great to get a nice bright clear picture. :)

[ZoqFotPik]

It was nice to have a Bart and Ken less episode. It does seem like, with Dirk and Todd heading out of the city, they will finally encounter each other next episode though. So Nathan, the now dead FBI agent played by Kavan Smith, was having an affair with one of Lux DuJour's groupies. I guess everything is connected. I felt bad for the other FBI agent, getting put into a mouse and then fed to LydiaDog. I really want to know what the Rowdy Three's deal is. This is the second time they've kind of been helpful. So this was the half way point to the season. I hope the second half starts answering questions.

[kat165]

Yeah, Zoq, that was pretty horrifying, the FBI mouse. I'd forgotten about that.

[sjohnson]

On 11/13/2016 at 5:22 PM, ZoqFotPik said:

. I really want to know what the Rowdy Three's deal is. This is the second time they've kind of been helpful.

They really like Amanda, is their deal, I think.

[Coconuts]

I'm enjoying this show, but it very much feels like a show that would be better if streamed/binge watched.

[tenativelyyours]

I think the Rowdy three represent the chaos to a holistic approach.  If you let go and rely on the random in the belief that all things are tied together and the universe will work to bring to bring those needed elements together, you also have to rely on there being chaos that has purpose.  Sort of like the assassin in different way.  So while it looks nefarious at first it is merely a way to reset the universe's purpose?  It can be jarring and maybe even unpleasant for Dirk and anyone else who gets their treatment, but I'm thinking even for Dirk it ends up being beneficial. 

They sort of come along and force a sort of reboot that purges temporary files if you will.  And in the process they speed up memory and make room for necessary data. As we see in Amanda.  From her perspective it takes away the immediate and destructive elements of her sickness and gave her needed information (I think it was kind of a psychic insight to things that mattered and were tied together).  So since we have not seen it from Dirk's point of view, they might be doing the same for him even though it looks like they are doing something evil.  

As agents of chaos they serve as conduits to the universe and could well be how Dirk knows about Todd in the first place thanks to their draining that lets in information.

[Chyromaniac]

Episode 3 Question - are Old Dutch chips actually available in Seattle, or is that just a byproduct of shooting in Vancouver?

[sjohnson]

Figured Todd was lying about being cured, but this was unexpected yet logical. The best kind of twist. Kitten-shark, not so much.

Amanda + Rowdy 3=4 Horsemen?

[kat165]

Oh no they killed Richard Schiff. The bastards.

Loved the scene with Amanda going into the van and speaking with those guys.

[ZoqFotPik]

19 hours ago, sjohnson said:

Amanda + Rowdy 3=4 Horsemen?

But there's already four of them. It never occurred to me that they would be part of Black Wing.

I just noticed that Future?Todd is wearing Lux DuJour's fur coat when Past?Todd sees him from the elevator. 

Sad to see Richard Schiff's character dying.

Also, Corporal Friedkin was wearing captain's bars in his meeting with the Boss. I was kind of hoping it would be revealed that he was just playing dumb to spy on the Colonel, but it doesn't seem that way.

[snarktini]

Pleased I was right about Todd faking, guessed that early on. Not pleased they killed Zim. I like(d) the cop pair a lot.

Glad Dirk set Todd straight. Yes, he did something truly, colossally asshole-ish. He should feel bad for bleeding his parents and faking an illness! But if he was the total asshole as he believes, he wouldn't be trying to help his sister now. Agree completely that excusing bad behavior as "What do you expect? I'm an asshole" isn't ok and he's capable of more, we've seen it. I'm looking forward to Todd being more on board and less bewildered. They'll be more fun together.

The Rowdy 3 are interesting, but not getting what they're trying to do with the Colonel and the idiot.

Edited November 21, 2016 by snarktini

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, snarktini said:

Pleased I was right about Todd faking, guessed that early on. 

I totally missed that.

So would the Rowdies being able to act as medicine for Amanda be a holistic occurrence as the word holistic is defined within the show's universe?

Losing Richard Schiff's character felt like a favorite show being cancelled.

[snarktini]

30 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I totally missed that.

What I saw was Todd acting squirrelly when they discussed his inexplicable recovery from a disabling genetic disease (not to mention that sounded highly unlikely) and looking super guilty when Amanda said she clung to his recovery as hope. That could have been an acting/directing choice that I misread. In this case, it was the right interpretation.

Since Todd is a bit of a scammer -- the kind who would have played sick to gain advantage or sympathy -- that guess sounded right. I didn't expect he did it so his parents would support him and he wouldn't have to work. Wow. (I also must have missed the age of onset. I assumed he faked while a kid/teen, not an adult.)

Edited November 21, 2016 by snarktini

[theatremouse]

It was potentially a long con, beginning as a teen and continuing on. I don't recall the exact lines, so it might've been something I fabricated, but I also got the impression it started when he was not yet living on his own and then continued. Although it seems like it'd be easier to fake not living with ones parents. If he were a minor when he started presumably they'd have taken him to a doctor's appointment or two, so he'd have to have been really consistent in convincing a doctor to give an actual diagnosis, which would make him more of a sociopath to be that committed to the bit if it were just about getting money and not working and not also about some sort of deep psychological issues wanting attention or sympathy or something that he somehow suddenly had enough empathy to realize was horrible once his sister developed the actual disease.

[Chyromaniac]

Quote

So would the Rowdies being able to act as medicine for Amanda be a holistic occurrence as the word holistic is defined within the show's universe?

Only inasmuch as any other thing that happens in the show would be holistic, since "everything is connected."

Maybe it's because we binge-watched the first 4 shows, but this week felt kind of disjointed with the rest of the story thus far - like it felt as though we skipped some steps between last episode and now.  Some of it I can handwave - the Rowdy 3, the military guys, and Ken/Bart all just seem to show up wherever anyway.  But I don't really get:

When Farrah decided to spy on the missing persons cops

What those two were talking about regarding Spring's lawyer

Why or how the cult guys were able to find Dirk and Todd on the treasure hunt

Why Aaron Douglas was back to talking like Gordon this week, when he shed that voice in the last scene of show 4

There may have been more, but those are what I can think of right now.  Overall though, the series continues to be entertaining - not just for the mystery, but for the characters as well.  Sam and Fiona in particular have been doing a great job of bringing depth and nuance to what could easily be one-note roles.  It's kind of baffling how much sympathy I feel for someone who is essentially the grim reaper - Bart has just been so sheltered and damaged by whatever Black Wing has done.  On the other hand, her warning to Ken at the end was chilling.  As for Dirk, it's always refreshing when he can slow down and relate to someone as a human being.

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, Chyromaniac said:

...But I don't really get:..

...Why Aaron Douglas was back to talking like Gordon this week, when he shed that voice in the last scene of show 4....

I noticed that too. When he does the weird voice, it looks like he has something in his mouth. When he was speaking in Aaron Douglas's normal voice (last week?) I thought they just decided the marbles-in-the-mouth voice just wasn't working. Now I'm wondering if it is a deliberate choice from the beginning to indicate when he is a different personality.

[MarkHB]

BBCA announced Season 2 is a go.

[Miles]

So are we supposed to infer that the boss lady at the pentagon is just as dumb as the young soldier or have the writers dun goofed?

She said that the neanderthals fell to the homo erectus. But homo erectus is the second oldest species (arguably the oldest) in the genus homo and was largely extinct by the time the neanderthals came around. What boss lady meant is homo sapiens (modern humans). I can't really believe that that was a writing mistake. At least that we are called homo sapiens should be common knowledge. So, is she dumb, a body snatcher or am I just underestimating how dumb the writers can be?

[Mabinogia]

I think she just wanted to say "erect", and I think it worked because dumb boy seemed like he responded to that and aggression.

[sjohnson]

Captain Corporal stuck the knife in his superior's back very smoothly, very quickly and very efficiently. When I was in school, playing dumb was always the best bet to get away with stuff. Not so sure how truly stupid the guy is.

[kat165]

Now that it appears as though Dirk and Todd are going into the past maybe Richard Schiff can be reanimated so to speak.

Does anyone know if this show is suppose to have a 2nd season or is this a one shot deal?

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, kat165 said:

Now that it appears as though Dirk and Todd are going into the past maybe Richard Schiff can be reanimated so to speak....

Looking at Schiff's IMDb page, I'm not sure he has time.

[kat165]

Oh bummer.

[theatremouse]

6 minutes ago, kat165 said:

Does anyone know if this show is suppose to have a 2nd season or is this a one shot deal?

It was not conceived as a one shot deal, but S2 was only just renewed a couple days ago. So it wasn't a guarantee from the get-go or anything.

[kat165]

Thank you, theatremouse. This is great news! I've been enjoying the show. Do you know if Elijah Woods will be returning and his sister and Farrah? I've never been an EJ but he isn't bad in this plus I really like the sister.

[theatremouse]

The announcement I read didn't explicitly say one way or the other. I would assume at least Elijah's in, but who knows.

[possibilities]

Maybe the assassin is "meant" to kill Dirk because it's cheaper than budgeting a recall mission to bring him back voluntarily and/or alive?

I enjoyed this week's episode. I can't tell if the quality of the episodes is highly variable, or if my enjoyment varies depending on my mood.

I like the relationship between Amanda and the Rowdies. I was surprised by the intensity of her reaction to Todd's lie. I don't object to it, it just took me by surprise. I'm used to TV shows handwaving and instaforgiving every possible bad behavior, and seeing Amanda say no was unexpected. Likewise, the rage and heartbreak of Estevez over the death of his partner also surprised me-- and I liked it. I've gotten used to tv saying that cops get morose or numb about deaths, and I didn't expect it to be a breakthrough for him. I liked him with the Lydia/the corgi. The dog is very appealing, but this is the first time she made another character more appealing to me. I know it's a little cute, but I liked that he was angry enough to open his mind, even if he thought he was losing it.

[sjohnson]

The scene where Rimmer bursts out with all those questions but Dirk and Todd don't know the answers was wonderful. They really thought they were getting somewhere before that. 

[theatremouse]

He was also mouthpiecing for the audience.